Life without sex? Pllllleeease!!!

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What is this about life without sex?

It seems that the vast majority of the members in this forum are confusing intercourse with sex?

Sex is more than intercourse. It encompasses the way a couple interact with one another during the day (prelude) up to the act of intercourse itself (end).

I would caution those individuals that are holding sex after marriage with the possibility that your equipment might not work when you are finally ready. After all you wouldn\'t expect to succesfully complete a marathon if you haven\'t prepared for it would you?

Everybody is probably aware of the importance of exercising to prevent debilitating illnesses like artherosclerosis,obesity,diabetes,hyper blood pressure, etc. Or the importance of learning new things about our world to help our brains function properly.

Why ignore the importance of exercising our genitals? Masturbation might be treated as a joke but it is important as a way of exercising our genitals and keeping us from getting involved with the wrong person.

Happy New Year everybody.

Joe (unabashed monkey spanker).

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What? images/icons/crazy.gif

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Well Joe is stressesed out, although I don\'t see how with all that monkey spanking.

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Well Jambat at least I know that my equipment is working and that even if I find what you seem to imply as the \'Woman-of-my- dreams.The-one-I\'m-saving-my-pecker-for\' I KNOW that I won\'t be in for a rude awakening from \'down under\'.

Case in point is that just a few weeks ago I bumped into an old girlfriend from BEFORE my marriage and ended up in bed with her later on that day. Well guess what she tells me AFTER we screwed like rabbits? That she\'s happily married (5 years) to a wonderful man who treats her like a queen and she loves like no other man she\'s known but that he\'s so lousy in bed. She also said that he\'s a religious man that considers other forms of sex (masturbation, oral sex, etc.) dirty and that she tried to remain faithful to him but that his lousy lovemaking had made her libido build up to the point that she could no longer stand it, that she now does one night stands with old boyfriends once a month.

The moral of this story is that you are deluding yourself in beleiving that saving yourself for the right woman well ensure a happy sex life for both, IF you decide to ignore your equipment in that interim period of time.

Just remember that the vast majority of women now have more sexual experience than us guys will ever have in our lifetimes.Many times a woman will lie to a man and say to him that for her sex does not matter that much only to protect his ego.But deep inside her the sexual frustration she experiences keeps building up until she is a prime candidate for seduction by another man.

Ignore the warnings at your own risk my friends.

Joe

BTW. After she told me her story, I immediately got dressed and told her to forget about yours truly since I detest deceit no matter the cause, and left her.

[jose]

I have to agree with Joe on this one, what\'s the point of using Pheromones to attract women if you\'re not going to use your DICK. I once knew a guy that regretted not having sex when he was younger,he got married in his 30s after being a virgin for so long. Now he says his wife doesn\'t seem satisfied when they\'re together. All I can tell him was keep practicing, and watch some sex tapes. Sex is a wonderful thing when your in love with the right person, it shouldn\'t be held off because you want a piece of paper to make it official. Sex is also great with a stranger or exgirlfriend, but this is only my opinion.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: jose ]

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Practice as they say makes perfect. We should stop deluding ourselves, women sleep around a lot more than they make out. Give a woman some truth serim thats married and you may more than likley find at least one out of marraige sex partner, its equal stevens these days an anyone can lie (women especially) i know girls that go around and when the go out nightclubbing that they might go 5 or 6 guys in one night. What isnt discussed in society is usually what happens. Also some men consider hookers a good practice ( against all religion illegal i think in the United states) not so other countries europe australia new zealand canada i think) i read an article on places where brothels are illegal and legal. There are many ways we keep satisified we have instincts vs higher logic (the need to get laid vs the need for marriage) and the need to get laid wins and the marriage is there sometimes as truth but most often as an illusion of one partner and faifthfullness (the high rate of affairs and divorce) in the western world.

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Well said Jose and DonaldDuck.

The difference between men and women with regards to their sexual honesty is that men lie about how many women they\'ve slept around with while women lie about how few men they\'ve slept around with.

To the guys that are saving themselves until they are married before having sex,and want a woman that will be faithful to them, I would suggest the following:

1) Join the Ahmish and get married to an Ahmish woman (or man).

2) Marry a blind woman (or man).

or better yet

3) Marry one that is both option 1 and 2 all rolled into one

You probably won\'t go wrong with either of the three images/icons/laugh.gif

Joe

[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: stressedoutjoe ]

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lol well said stressedoutdude, we get married and then get hurt when we find out the other has been unfaithful, this is a natural response of course since emotions are involved but your suggestions are spot on, better still marry a women who has no VNO or pheromone senseing ability at all then shell be safe from all the other phero weilding males and she may not have any sex drive at all, or better still marry her then go for a long space trip to mars, land on mars then be the only ones on that planet and you should have no problems at all.

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I\'m partial to marrying a blind woman since for obvious reasons, her opportunities for meeting other men and cheating with them is severely limited images/icons/laugh.gif

Not to mention the fact that I could be butt ugly and she wouldn\'t even know it images/icons/laugh.gif

Joe

[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: stressedoutjoe ]

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Uh, I said I was saving myself for marriage, I didn\'t say I was prudish. There is a difference. Believe it or not. And why is she telling you how she loves her hubby. To relieve herself of her guilt. (Great way to show how you love your man by impaling yourself on another man\'s shaft).

My only point was that for me personally I don\'t believe in sex before marriage. Everyone else will either be behind for it or against it. I do believe this is God\'s way (I know that makes no difference to most people) but that whole excerise the equipment bull is a crock and you know it. There\'s so many books and videos on sex and how to pleasure partner that you\'d have to be impotent, blind and illiterate (or just not trying) to not figure something out.

It is sad that the man won\'t pleasure his wife but it\'s just as sad that they can\'t discuss and come to terms versus her cheating, because if it got to the point she has to cheat every week then it\'s time for divorce. (But he treats her like a queen of course). Well whatever.

I understand all this. I never say do this without thought. You can make sex pleasurable if you chose to and if your partner helps. I mean they could\'ve (and possibly did) discuss this before they got married. And by the way it\'s not his fault she cheats, that\'s her choice.

Another thing, for the guys saving yourselves (the few of us there are). You want to get married and have a woman not cheat on you? Then join the priesthood or something. Women cheat. Men cheat. It happens unless you\'re very lucky. And if you get married go into fully expecting it may happen.

See men who screw like rabbits get married and sometimes their wives still cheat (and many times the men themselves cheat) so don\'t try to imply men who save themeselves have any greater chance of being cheated on because they waited, that\'s just silly. (And I mean in the Alice in wonderland follow the white rabbit druggie reference kind of silly). We\'re all capable of cheating and being cheated on no matter what.

And remember, what goes around comes around and payback is a motha.

Perspective before power and honor and wisdom always.

\"He looked me right in the eyes
His yoke is easy and His burden is light

Direct and concise to remind me
To always do what\'s right

Again I stand against the Faceless Man

\'Cause if the face inside can\'t see the light I know I\'ll have to walk alone

And if I walk alone to the other side
I know I might not make it home\"

\"Faceless man\"

-Creed

[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: jambat ]

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Egad how do you follow that. . . While I do not follow the saving yourself creed, I will say this: The bottom line of the last post is correct. I think that dating is fun, marriage is a consequence of finding someone you can not live with out. One point I would like to make, you are high on endorphines for the first 5 months after meeting/going out with someone. Do not be premature, wait. If anything, a ring is nice and it symbolizes something sacred, but in all truth, it is not required. If you love somebody, what is a bit of metal other than a symbol. The bigger thing is what is between the two people. Do not get me wrong, things happen, people grow apart, shit happens. But, when it is said and done, it is the bond between the pair that matters.

My 2 cents.

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[Jambat wrote: \"My only point was that for me personally I don\'t believe in sex before marriage. Everyone else will either be behind for it or against it. I do believe this is God\'s way (I know that makes no difference to most people) but that whole excerise the equipment bull is a crock and you know it. There\'s so many books and videos on sex and how to pleasure partner that you\'d have to be impotent, blind and illiterate (or just not trying) to not figure something out.\"]

Beleive it or not, I do respect your religious beleif regarding sex after marriage because I used to beleive it myself. And I agree about ending a dishonest relationship thru divorce.

But the truth of the matter is that a LOT of people(mostly men) with that beleif, get married with the expectation that sex and fidelity are a sure thing. They are under a spell and disregard the reality, although all the indicators are in plain sight, of what marriage to that other person is really going to be like.

I also found out (the hard way) that the sexual condition of a marriage is an extremely accurate indicator of the health of said marriage. And ignoring it is foolhardy.

But come on beleiving that a bunch of books and videos on sex on how to please your partner will turn you into a good lover?

You know how ridiculous that sounds? It\'s almost like saying I don\'t need to practice driving a car before I get my drivers license because there are books and tapes that teach me how to drive a car.

Now THAT IS a bunch of crap and YOU know it.

I speak from experience, having lived thru the joy of courtship,the honeymoon period of marriage,the blessing of fatherhood, and the heartaches of adultery and divorce.

Joe

[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: stressedoutjoe ]

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Just to get me two cents in,

Religion is a fraud designed to divide, manipulate and even rule people. Im sick of all this crap about god who is a \"being\" thats utter rubbish. The crap about living just one life and being judged after it is crap, the crap about \"gods laws\" are crap, what about the idea that sex before marriage is a mortal sin and condems one to \"hell\", thats crap also. I mean so people who never marry cannot have sex!!! why don\'t people just wake up. I\'ve read so much literature on the bible and bible myths that it is coming out of my ears and I am sick of all the crap. my family are all catholic and go to church every week and are always on my case because I don\'t go, I then point out some contradiction in religion and they seem to go quiet!!!

I know what you are thinking, im going to hell, oh well I had better spent the rest of \"this life\" in a sulk with my head down because I don\'t believe the crap we have led to believe and im going to hell.

If you people want to believe and join the other sheep in the flock go ahead, just don\'t expect me to follow.

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well...

at least the people who believe in sex before marriage doesn\'t talk about God\'s Laws being \'crap\'.

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My take is that for those that believe in whatever religious faith they grow up with well it does provide something to have faith in and gets people through the rough times. It does provide an illusion of the world being a good place which works for some, i guess it really depends on ones perspective, me im not religious but some religious ideas do appeal to me. On the other hand science is there as well, although even that seems to be only those who are in power. Marriage is a sign of commitment to the other person, it also provides some stability in the raising of children (which is more important) as we only live once it is there and is a important bit of stability. On the ohter hand people cheat and react to instincts first which i guess is the way we all work. I guess the status quo is the way things are going to say, it is probably all genetic anwyay. Our need for stability vs our need to have some excitement and spread ourselves around. Hence the quote of limited rooting time.

[a.k.a.]

I don’t see anything wrong with reading religious literature for strength and inspiration. The Bible really is a “Good Book�. It’s got history, adventure, intrigue, romance, and many words of timeless wisdom. But, in the final analysis, it was written by men.

Whatever inspiration these men had, their brains didn’t work any better than ours and their understanding of the world was much more limited. The sexual codes found in the Old Testament were written at a time when people were ruled by tribal chieftains and autocratic tyrants. Women were property and young men were servants of their fathers, if not slaves of the State. The men who held power weren’t concerned with protecting young people from heartbreak, exploitation, unwanted pregnancies, or venereal disease. They were concerned with maintaining the value of their property = women. Marriage wasn’t an institution that protected the rights of children or young people in love. It was an economic arrangement.

Calling ancient Judaic codes “God’s Law� reveals a pretty dim view of history (not to mention God).

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u know what . . I\'ve been pretty buzy with other stuff & sometimes I watch & review the board But I gotta say , Some posts here are Very offensive & FRANKLY IDIOTIC . I \'m 17 , So I \"m not yet an Adult But I\'ve Had many experiences in life already .

The idea of PRE marital sex being wrong is UNTRUE . . if it is CONSENSUAL & NOT Forced . . There is NOTHING wrong with it . .
Its passion , Enjoying Life . .
& yes . . It does make u in to a Better lover . . I can tell u , the 1rst time I did it , it was NOWHERE near as good as what I am capable of Now after a lot of practice .
Its sort of like TRAINING : Martial Arts , Gym . . and so forth . . sure u can Read how to practice Karate But if u dont ACTUALLY PRACTICE . . u wont Perform ! same with Gym : u can study Techniques on how to Grow your muscles but if u dont actually Train . . u wont get any Muscle . . its the SAME thing with sex . . ITS A TECHNIQUE . . The More u do it . . the Better u get at it .

Now as long as u dont force urself on a girl . . And if she\'s interested , go for it !

Though , The MOST IDIOTIC Comment that I have ever read was from PAUL . .
No GOD ? ? ? Forget God\'s LAWS ? ?

what is wrong with u ? ?
I can Tell u for a FACT . . that there is a Higher Power . . Maybe the Name is not God . . But we\'ve called the ( higher power ) ( creator ) by that name for such a Long time . . So why change ?

I Have Extreme Faith in God . . Sure Religion is another story & ur right that religion does Split different nationalities apart & create war . .

Though , that has NO RELEVANCE to the Notion of GOD\"S EXISTENCE . .

And forget God\'s Laws ? ? ?? ? ?

What , u want people killing each other everyday ? Beating each other ?
Stealing ? Cause thats what the world would be like without those Laws . .
Sure u could Follow ur Own Path . . Sex , no sex ( whatever ) But u Have to follow certain rules of Human Decency . . & certain rules of the Bible are quite on target .

& to the Notion ( again ) to if God exists . . Once again , I tell u YES .
He exists for people who have faith . .

& when u have Faith , Amazing Things Happen .
I know , Cause all of this happened to Me .

That was a Very stupid comment .
Much worse ( different league ) than Sex before marriage objections . .

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Oh YA & ANOTHER THING mate . .

Have u ever heard of FAIT Beliefs WITHOUT going to church . .

It has nothing to do with church . . if u have faith & follow Good beliefs . . That is what Counts . .

Church Falls into Religious Category . .
u seem to have given up on the essence of Life . .

everyone has a Path . . what is urs ?

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I\'d like to preface this by saying that despite the name I chose for this forum (i.e. \"Aumen\"), I\'m not overly religious. I actually chose that name because it roughly translates into \"so be it.\" (Interestingly enough, that translation would indicate the prayer\'s expression of his/her own will and not the will of God, but that is off topic...) I haven\'t attended church since I was 14. I\'m currently 27. Having said that, I agree with Jambat to a certain extent. Although I am not a virgin, I have been very selective by choice. There are times when I wonder if it is worth it, but overall I still believe it is. At the very least, those I choose to have sex with will realize it means something to me. I.E. I don\'t just sleep with anybody I find attractive. There must be a great deal more there. Although I agree with Jambat that it is a good idea, the problem becomes finding a suitable mate who feels the same way and keeping that feeling after marriage....
For example, I have several female friends who waited. They now cheat on their husbands regularly. They have all told me they feel like they \"missed out\" by not being more active prior to marriage. They somehow justify their actions by reasoning that they are only \"catching up\"....? Other women tell them about their great sex etc. and they feel like somebody owes them that. Just so you know, these are all professional women and very attractive.
I personally have lost most of my respect for them. They are unhappy in their marriages and rather than talking it out, they cheat. That way they get the husband\'s security with the excitement of dating. It is not only dishonest, it seems similar to prostitution. On a personal level, for my friends, it seems to be corresive to their relationships, their bodies, and their self-esteems.
Overall, I think that moderation and discrimination in our choices is a better course to take prior to marriage. It seems to be the least self destructive. Once a person is married, they should remain faithfull. Anyone who gets married should be walking in with their eyes wide open. There are benefits to having a life partner, and certain things must be given up. If a person is not willing to make those sacrifices, then they shouldn\'t get married. Period. In other words, if a person is going to regret only sleeping with one person in their life, they should consider that prior to marriage. If their religious beliefs dictate one way, then they have a choice to make. I don\'t beleive it is my place to judge those who choose either way.

[Whitehall]

\"Sex without love is an empty experience; but as empty experiences go, it\'s one of the best.\"

Woody Allen

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Aumen --

Women (or men, for that matter) cheating on their mates while enjoying the security they provide is far beyond dishonest -- it\'s flat out using the other person.

You\'re unfairly demeaning prostitution with the comparison. While many may not like it, with prostitution there\'s a fair exchange between two consenting parties -- money for sex. Now, for example, if the person took the money with the promise of sex and then didn\'t provide it, it\'d be considered theft (though it\'s doubtful anyone would report it!)

So, Taking someone\'s money while concealing the fact that they\'re providing sex to someone else is something akin to theft, but worse, I think.

With cheating, it\'s not a fair exchange. One person is often providing an unequal amount of the resources, and not getting much out of the relationship -- ironically, this is the person that would have a weak, but better argument to cheat -- while the other person is concealing the fact that they\'re not only using the resources, but often using them to see or help someone else. So you have dishonesty, deceit, and the concealed breaking of promises.

Which, I agree, is all the more reason to be careful in who your choose.

Scientist -- speaking from far too much experience on this topic.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Scientist ]

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I strongly disagree with the statements of some posters saying that God\'s laws (10 commandments) are a bunch of crap. I beleive the world would be a wonderful place is the vast majority of people in it, followed them.

As everybody here knows, marriage was an institution that was created in ancient times, more for the future benefit of the community than for the people getting married. Love, or should I say infatuation, was irrelevant in the coupling of two people, since both realized the practical benefits to each that came to being married as opposed to remaining single. Man received the right to sire offspring from the woman and the Woman received the right of economic and personal protection for her and her offspring from the man. These rights were a given in the old societal contract.

But in today\'s modern world, people use love, or should I say infatuation, as the sole criteria for getting married. They totally ignore the core beleifs of the person they are getting married to, they
ASSUME the other person shares them but make no attempt to discover if this is the case.

The tragedy occurs when children come from a marriage with a cheating spouse.The scars from the pain inflicted upon the inocent have far reaching consequences in their future lives as adults.

So if you are a deeply religious person that beleives that sex should be held until after you get married and only with your future spouse, then you\'d better make damn sure that your future spouse STRONGLY SHARES YOUR BELEIFS and the community where you choose to live is one filled with like minded couples. I say this because if you get married to someone that is too secular and both of you decide to live in a too secular community, then the odds increase dramatically that your spouse will one day cheat on you.

Joe

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Matt 999

Can\'t you read? I said that the notion of God as a Being is a fraud, I never said there was not a higher power because there is higher powers, frequencies, dimensions etc just like there is infinite life, not condemnation after we die in this life, life is infinite, the body is but a vehicle for the mind on the journey of evolution. I believe you when you say that wonderful things can happen because they can. You may know that everything is energy and when you exhibit negative or bad energy you will draw bas energy towards you and when you exhibit ositive energy and love then positive energy and love will come to you, the energy grid that is the earth, the universe, everything will ensure that. What I am saying is that the rigid belief structures that have been imposed on us are designed to imprison us and close our minds trapping us here in this 3rd dimension of time-space reality and preventing us from going fourth. Sex releases cosmic energy and balances the male-female energies in the universe and therefore leads to harmony, however the \"lucifer-consciousness\" which some refer to as the Black Magicians are trying to shut off our ability to release energy, interact fully with the universe and open our minds, the repression of sex is just one way they can do that.

Why Don\'t you read some books written by David icke. Start from his earliest material and work your way up. If your mind is in any way open then you may find interesting what he has to say.

Paul c

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Scientist
Point well taken. I agree wholeheartedly. I have to admit, I have more respect for the prostitutes than those that cheat and stay with their husbands. Seems more honest somehow.... images/icons/laugh.gif

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I think its better to leave those that believe in religion battle it out as to who the real god is etc. Which version of the bible is the right one etc, concentrate on pheromones is a better idea seeing as those that are alpha males (their ideas are reflected by everyone else) i think the book mind wars needs an extra chapter added on reflecting NLP and pheromone influences.

How different belief systems compete for the human brain and of course behaviour and defense of ones ideas reflect this as a result (the need to be top of the heap and be the most attractive to the females - an extension of the competition and resource game we play every day.)

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Even though I was the creator of this thread, I too beleive that the time has come for it to end. Thus, for my part, this will be my last post on the subject.

Some people have pointed out, correctly, that this is a pheromone forum and that it should stay a pheromone forum. In fact somebody has already asked Bruce, our wise and patient administrator, to please create a general forum for non-pheromone subjects.

This is a very good idea, because threads like this one often tend to have, more often than not, an \'in-your-face\' quality to them that brings forth more emotional responses from the participants, instead of the more productive, thought provoking responses that could positively challenged a lot of our long held beleifs.

I would like to leave one last thought (I\'m not seeking a reply on this one) to those that are very religious. It is obvious that you, like the rest of us more secular folk, beleive that pheromones do work in attracting the opposite sex. Doesn\'t it then mean that you should only use pheromones on women that you are serious about having a long term relationship with?. After all, you wouldn\'t, knowingly, want to post that you are attracting women that you do not consider seriously as good potential wives, wouldn\'t you?

Joe.

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I just wanted to add this for those who doubt the Bible or God\'s existence. Just a little spiritual food for thought...

\"The Bible is a miracle! The existence of the Bible is evidence of the one Who works miracles.

No Contradictions

First, the Bible was written by about 40 different human writers who lived over a period of about 1500 years (50 generations). Many of these writers had no opportunity to collaborate with each other and yet, there are no contradictions in their writings! Like no other book, the writers all agreed on such themes as morality (which certainly has changed drastically in a few generationsin our society), child rearing (likewise a changing philosophy), husband and wife relationships (which have been altered in a single generation), the character of God, the way of salvation and the birth, life, death and resurrection of the Saviour of mankind, in minute details.

Scientifically Correct Hundreds of Years in Advance

Second, where the Bible speaks on scientific subjects, it is accurate centuries ahead of its time. For example, in a book entitled \"None of These Diseases\" by S.I. McMillen, M.D. 1, the doctor cites various hygiene laws God gave to Israel. These were far ahead of the knowledge of the scientific world of that time. Here are a few examples.

Deut. 23:12-13. Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad: And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee.
We may be prone to laugh at something like this in our day. However, in the eighteenth century in Europe, human excrement was cast into the streets of cities in ignorance, giving rise to epidemics of typhoid, cholera and dysentery.

Gen. 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.
The command to circumcise Jewish boys on the eighth day was no accident. The important blood clotting vitamin K2 in blood is not manufactured in a baby\'s intestinal tract in normal amounts until the 5th to 7th day of their lives. A second element necessary for blood clotting is prothrombin 3. The presence of this element decreases in an infant for the first 3 days of its life, then suddenly spurts to a maximum level on the eighth day, after which it settles to its norm for the rest of the child\'s life.

We will cite just one more example. In relatively recent years the medical professions have been warning against the build up of cholesterol in our veins since it may cause clogging and a heart attack. A large source of cholesterol is animal fat. Hear what God told Moses centuries ago 4.

Lev 3:17. [It shall be] a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.
Relative to other areas of scientific fact centuries ahead of scientists, see

Isa 40:22. [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Eccl 1:7. All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea [is] not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

1Cor 6:18. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Job 26:7. He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Prophecy

A third proof of the miracle of the Bible, and thus proof there is a God Who is the author of the Bible, is prophecy.

For example, would anyone care to select a large metropolitan area and predict in advance, and in detail, how that city will be destroyed? The Bible did, and not with just one city, but many!

City of Tyre

The two great cities of Phoenicia were Tyre and Sidon. Ezekiel as a captive in Babylon made some very specific predictions about the seacoast metropolis of Tyre. In Ezekiel 26 and 27 the destruction of Tyre was given in detail (592-570BC)

Ezek 26:3. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.

Ezek 26:4. And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

Ezek 26:5. It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken [it] saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.

Ezek 26:7. For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Ezek 26:12. And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water.

Ezek 26:14. And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be [a place] to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken [it] saith the Lord GOD.
Nebuchadnezzar came against Tyre in 585 BC (fulfilling vs 26:7). The siege lasted until 573 BC. When he broke down the gates of the city he found most of the population had escaped by ship to a city they had built on an island about a half mile out into the sea.

Sometime after defeating the Persians in a battle in 333BC, Alexander III in a southern campaign demolished old Tyre and used the materials and dirt (fulfilling verse 26:4) to build a causeway to the new city which had been built out in the water. After a long siege, the island city was destroyed and the materials cast into the sea (fulfilling 26:12).

Eighteen years after Alexander\'s defeat of Tyre on the island, Antigonus laid siege to the city and again destroyed it. The Moslemswere next to win and occupy it for a time but were defeated by the Roman Crusaders. Still later, the Moslems again retook and utterly destroyed the city with a vengeance, seeming to hate the very stones on which the Crusaders walked. All these \"waves\" of conquerors fulfilled vs 26:3.

Today, Tyre is literally a place for local fishermen to spread their nets to dry. The proud commercial seaport of ancient Tyre has never been rebuilt (fulfilling vs 26:5 and 14) 5.

Numerous other cities could be cited about which series of prophecies to minute detail were fulfilled. Only a few more of the Bible references will be given here to complete the point:

City of Samaria

Hosea 13

Micah 1
(Estimated fulfillment by chance: 1 in 40,000 6

Cities of Gaza & Ashkelon

Amos 1

Jeremiah 47

Zephaniah 2
(Estimated fulfillment by chance: 1 in 12,000 7

Kingdom of Edom and its capitol, Petra

Isa 34

Jeremiah 49

Ezekiel 25 and 35.
(Estimated fulfillment by chance: 1 in 10,000 8

And yet we have not considered the greatest, oldest and most detailed of all Bible prophecies, those that pertain to the birth, life, death and resurrection of the God-man, the Lord Jesus Christ!
In 1956 a book was written about the grand prophecies regarding the Lord Jesus 10. It contained the following challenge to the world.

\"We Challenge the world - $1,000 Reward Offered!\"

\"We hereby challenge the world with this double challenge; and we will give $1,000 reward to any one proving either of these two propositions:

(1) Show that there is another book than the Bible in the literature of the world that contains prophecies about a coming Messiah, similar to those in the Bible; and after a lapse of four hundred years gives evidence of a definite fulfillment, in twenty or more details.

(2) Produce any \"Christ,\" living or dead (other than Jesus of Nazareth) who can fulfill even half of the predictions concerning Messiah that we give in this book. We would ask of any who claims or who claimed to be the true Messiah:\" (12 specific events relative to the Biblical Messiah are then listed.)
To our knowledge, this reward has never been claimed!

THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

His Birth

Location:
Micah 5:2. (about 700 BC) But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting. (Fulfillment: Matthew 2:1)

Method:
Isa 7:14. (about 650 to 750 BC) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Fulfillment: Luke 1:27)

Time:
Dan 9:25. (about 500 BC) Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks 11: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

His Lineage

Gen 12:3. (1907 BC 12) And I will bless them that bless thee (Abraham), and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed..mb3

Gen 49:8. (1660 BC) Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father\'s children shall bow down before thee. 9. Judah is a lion\'s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10. The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be

Isa 11:1. (713 BC) And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (David\'s father), and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Jer 23:5. (597 BC) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

His Life

He was to be preceded by a forerunner (John Baptist):
Isa 40:3. (712 BC) The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Mal 3:1. (397 BC) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. (Fulfillment: Luke 1:17; Matthew 3:1-3)

He was to enter Jerusalem riding on a colt:
Zech 9:9. (494 BC) Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. (Fulfillment: Matthew 21:1-5)
He was to bear the sorrows and grief of his people:
Isa 53:4. (712 BC) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. (Fulfillment: Matthew 8:17)
He was to be rejected by his brethren:
Psalms 69:8. (993 BC) I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother\'s children. (Fulfillment: John 5:7)
He was to be rejected by the rulers:
Psalms 118:22. (1018 BC) The stone [which] the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. 23. This is the LORD\'S doing; it is marvelous in our eyes. (Fulfillment: Matthew 21:42, 45; Acts 4:11-12)

His Death

He was to be forsaken by his disciples:
Zech 13:7. (494 BC) Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. (Fulfillment: Mark 14:27 and 50)
He was to be sold for 30 pieces of silver:
Zech 11:12. (494 BC) And I said unto them, If ye think good, give [me] my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty [pieces] of silver. (Fulfillment: Matthew 26:15)
His price to be given to purchase the potters field:
Zech 11:13. (494 BC) And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [ pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. (Matthew 27:3-8)
He was to be smitten, spit on, mocked and beaten:
Isa 50:6. (712 BC) I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. (Fulfillment: Mat 27:26-30)

Psalms 22:7. (993 BC) All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying 8. He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. (Fulfillment: Matthew 27:43)

Micah 5:1. (704 BC) Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. (Fulfillment: Matthew 27:30)

He would be silent before his oppressors:
Isa 53:7. (712 BC) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. (Fulfillment: Mark 15:3-5)
Lots would be cast for his vesture:
Psalms 22:18. (993 BC) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. (Fulfillment: Matthew 27:35)
His hands and feet would be pierced:
Psalms 22:16. (993 BC) For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (Fulfillment: John 20:25-27)

Zech 12:10. (494 BC)...and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced...

Yet, none of his bones would be broken:
Psalms 34:20. (1029 BC) He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken. (Fulfillment: John 19:33-36)
He Was To Be Crucified (Crucifixion was a means of death invented hundreds of years after the writing of Psalms 22. At the timeof the writing of Psalms 22, Jewish capital punishment was stoning.)
Psalms 22:14.(993 BC) I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. 15. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. 16. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. (Fulfillment: Mark 15:24-38)
His grave was to be with the wicked and the rich:
Isa 53:9. (712 BC) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. (Fulfillment: Matthew 27:38 and 57-60)

His Resurrection

He was to be raised from the dead:
Psalm 16:8-10. (1014 BC) I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Fulfillment: Matthew 27:53; 28:6, Mark 16:6)
There were witnesses to his resurrection:
1Cor 15:3-8 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also...

Remember the mathematical discipline called \"probability?\" Above are over 20 prophesies regarding the Lord Jesus Christ from his birth to his resurrection. The probability of these all happening to a single person is 1 in 246 quintillion (246+15 0\'s). There are not just 20, however, some have estimated as many as 333 such prophecies!!! There is no need to calculate that probability for if a person will not be satisfied with 1 in 246 quintillion they are not to be convinced!

How about you? Are you sufficiently convinced to make the Bible priority reading in your life? Are you convinced enough to obeythe word of God as it applies to your life today?

Psalms 19:7-11 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

It Works!

The fourth evidence that proves the Bible to be the word of God is one which every person may test for themselves. The Bible simply works!

On the subject of raising children (future lessons will center of this subject), those who have made application of the word of God in their families have only regretted they did not follow the Bible more closely.

Pro. 29:17 Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul.
The Biblical instructions on husband and wife relationships* and order in the home are today contrary to popular belief, but when obeyed the home is abundantly blessed.

Psalms 128:1-4 Blessed [is] every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways. For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy [shalt] thou [be], and [it shall be] well with thee. Thy wife [shall be] as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table. Behold, that thus shall the man be blessed that feareth the LORD.
The same may be said on all of the subjects on which the Bible speaks, including salvation and forgiveness of sins. For one who has come to Christ and experienced the personal relationship between God and themselves, no additional proofs of the Bible are needed.

1JO 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. \"

Whence but from heaven, could men unskilled in arts,
In several ages born, in several parts,
Weave such agreeing truths? Or how, or why,
Should all conspire to cheat us with a lie!
Unasked their pains, ungrateful their advice,
Starving their gain, and martyrdom their price.
                    -Dryden.
http://www.BibleTruths.org/christ1s/wordgod.html (\"http://www.BibleTruths.org/christ1s/wordgod.html\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Wow. Way to end a subject. images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok way to much information thanks anyway jambat

[jose]

I couldn\'t read through it, way too much. and besides what was his point anyway? images/icons/shocked.gif

[oscar]

To All,

You may still see one of these in the backround of an old movie. There was a sign one could see hanging in taprooms and barber shops many years ago. I may not have the wording verbatim, but as I recall it read,
\"PLEASE REFRAIN FROM DISCUSSING RELIGION OR POLITICS.\"

Can I get an \"Amen!\"?

Oscar

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Actually that was simply for those people who were trying to say the Bible wasn\'t true. images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Jambat

you are obviously a very bored guy to type all that out. Much of the bible is not true, particularly the info about a guy called jesus.

Infact, quick quiz, who am I talking about?
He was born on December 25th to a virgin mother; he was called a saviour; the only begotten son; and died to save humanity; he was crucified on a Friday - \"Black Friday\" - and his blood was spilled to redeem the earth; he suffered death with nails and staked; he was the Father and Son combined in an earthly body; he was put in a tomb, went down into thge underworld, but three days later, on March 25th, his body was found to be gone from the tomb and he was resurrected as the \"Most High God\"; his body was symbolised as bread and eaten by those who worshipped him.

Jesus, yes? No,no. All of this was said about the saviour Son of God called Attis who was worshipped by the Phrygians, one of the oldest races in Asia Minor, now Turkey, well over 1000 years before the manufacture of \"Jesus\". It was just one of countless symbolic dieties of whom the same story was told millennia before Christianity. while Christians laugh at those \"Pagan\" tales and condemn them as evil, they ask the rest of the world to believe , indeed have insisted on pain of torture and death, that their version of the same story is somehow literally true while others are not. Yeah right. There were atleast 40 writers writing at the time \"Jesus\" was performing miracles and gathering massive crowds litteraly yards away yet none of them ever record any writings about a guy named Jesus. Somewhat strange don\'t you think Jambat? images/icons/wink.gif

why don\'t you put a sock in it and do us all a favour and read some David Icke books and open your pathetic, closed little mind!!!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Okay, okay.
I\'m not even in this discussion in any way, but I don\'t think it\'s going anywhere positive.

We\'re each going to have our own opinions, and that\'s fine. If everyone has the same opinion, I\'d die of boredom.

But then again, this isn\'t the forum for religious debate - the mother of all wars.
Let\'s not shoot each other down. Not here anyway. images/icons/smile.gif

So...end, okay?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think you\'re right Titan. I was keeping this on a level of informative and tactical discussion but from the post above I see I\'m making people angry. What is it about Jesus that makes people so mad. I wasn\'t looking to name call or anything like that. I simply wanted to keep the debate open.

I think it\'s sad that we talk about everything here but this one subjects causes some people to lash out. And I can\'t be too close minded because I\'ve heard a lot of this before and have discussed things like this (with less angrier people mind you). It\'s only when you drop something that backs your views up do people get upset. Everything was going along fine until that last post.

Well, whatever. So what\'s been up with you Titian?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thats fine with me, ill drop it also, religion doesn\'t get me angry I was just pointing out contradictions. Just a friendly piece of advice to Jambat, look at both sides of a debate before you decide what evidence is.

Paul c

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'ve looked at Christianity, Judaism, Islam and even Wicca (Witchcraft) and you\'re telling me I haven\'t looked at both sides right? You think that David Ick is new to me? I\'ve looked at both sides but I think I have a right to chose the side I\'m on once I\'ve done that. You\'ve obviously chosen your side too. You think that I haven\'t seen this stuff before and stuff like it. Gimme a frigging break.

Another thing I\'ve been on a friendly level with everyone here, even you, I\'ve been helpful and kind and I think you owe me an apology for the way you snapped at me back there. I am not close minded but I have made my choice and I\'ve done enough research and I\'ve seen too much in my own life. I believe Jesus is Lord and make no excuse for it. And you believe what you believe but you don\'t know me nor do you know what I know or don\'t know.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Jambat

How about we just leave this conversation where it is because quite frankly we could trade arguments and counter arguments until the cows come home. How about we agree to differ? that way we respect each of our individual views and everyone is happy!

Paul c

[travis]

I\'m supprised that this topic is still here. If this topic was in the last couple of forum ago this could have been deleted. Bruce does not like this kind of argument (Bible stuff)for many reasons. I know this is one topic he dosen\'t like to talk about and politics.

travis

[wingrider81]

Hey Scientist,
Thanks for your thoughts a long way back. I\'ve been there in that situation and
I and my daughter are still paying for it.
WR