Anti-Anthrax Radiation and Pheromones

[Whitehall]

It looks like the US Post Office is considering plans to irradiate mail on a wholesale basis. Let\'s hope they don\'t.

The high doses necessary to kill anthrax spores might be capable of causing chemical changes to the delicate pheromones and fragances in the products Bruce sells.

They haven\'t started yet (I don\'t think) but I would recommend that you avoid the US Mail should they do so, at least until specifics are available. That would include Express Mail too.

If I were Bruce, I\'d voice an opinion with the Post Office (or your congressman) and perhaps make plans for alternative, cheap, UPS shipment.

I\'m a nuclear engineer and we have to consider radiation effects on organic materials. One surprising fact is that cockroaches can take more radiation than teflon! And before anyone asks, wrapping the bottle in lead foil won\'t help - in fact, it would make things worse. A little thing called \"bremstrallung\" converts the high energy electron beam they say they\'re going to use into x-rays, make the dose higher (unless the lead is really thick.)

BTW, the x-rays used at airports for security screenings are of much lower energy and dose so not to worry there.

Don\'t mean to scare anyone, just pointing out the possible consequences of a proposed government policy.

[oscar]

Whitehall,

I contacted both LaCroy and Stone Labs back when the P.O. first announced their intention to irradiate mail in late October. Both outfits replied that this would NOT affect their products. \"Not to worry\", was one of their replies.

I posted their responses on the \"Customer Questions\" board. It was
entitled \"Irradiating Mail\" posted October 24, 2001. Last reply 10/30/01.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[Whitehall]

As usual Mr. Oscar, you\'re way ahead of me.

I do remain skeptical, knowing the rigorous testing we put our suppliers through when organics are used in nuclear safety-related applications.

Irradiated food is sometimes given doses high enough to kill spores but not usually since lower doses serve to kill bugs and fungus, etc and food quality can degrade at high doses. Haven\'t knowingly eaten irradiated food.

I\'ll have to keep an open mind on pheromone products but still don\'t think, as a matter of public policy, that wholesale mail irradiation is a sound idea.

[oscar]

Whitehall,

I think irradiating mail is a great idea! I believe that most other surviving postal employees think so too. images/icons/wink.gif

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ahh, food, my field. Irradiation works out excellently on things that are not high in oil. The Irradiated foods have two major factors helping. The enzyme that chews up pectins and microorganism that are INTERNAL are killed. Strawberries are the prime example, they last about 2 weeks after irradiation. Also, USDA was considering irradiating all fruit shipped into this country, to kill parasites. Meats, are terrible irradiated. The fat goes rancid on you. Immediately I worry about oils. Well, I would not worry much. The oils used in these products are stable. They don?t oxidize like food oils

[Whitehall]

One of the reasons I participate in this forum is the intelligence and breath of the minds I find here. You guys have a way of surprising me.

However, I am unmoved in my suspicions. First, as to Bruce\'s mention of bacterial degradation, the alcohol-based products already supress bacteria via the alcohol content. Killing bacteria in a 50% EtOH is impossible since there aren\'t any. As to oils, I suspect that we\'ll see a lot of cross-linking polymerization, causing sludge and goo. These effects are only related to the carriers, not the actual pheromones. The manufacturers\' opinions are somewhat questionable in my mind, thinking that radiation effects are far from their a priori technical competence.

Perhaps I\'m used to a higher standard of verification for radiation hardening (which partially accounts for the $100 o-rings we buy for our nuclear power plants), but I\'m still in a \"show me\" mood.

I suspect we\'ll see all sorts of reasonable objections to mail irradiation given the effects on all sorts of legitimate materials.

But, reasonable men may differ....

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It really depends on the oils. Most of the things used are sturdy. AKA, they don?t bother with unsaturated tails. Does tanning oil go bad in the sun? It is sort of the same concept. Also with the Anthrax scare, we are dealing with spores. Unfortunately, these are really different than vegetative cells. But, DNA is prone to crosslinking too, at a much higher rate than most would think. If it gets messed up the spores are not viable. Also remember that the spore is a resting state of a cell. It has no way of repairing damage. They are tough little things, but if damaged, they are dead. As far as the phreos are concerned, high energy light can be dissipated, but heat is more of a sledge hammer approach. I can?t say for certain that the pheros will be untouched, but the process will be designed to damage the Anthrax Spores DNA.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well considering we are becoming the alpha people in the world of alpha people. We should be considered the ruling elite of the world which given my position is a good idea. I already rule the world, now wait for conspiracy theroys regarding this one, oh god im the one that has blown pheromones up into big news oh my god am i god no just some individaul with nothing better to do than to shape public opinion. If i am the head of the secret order then ive never met aliens have no money and am not psychic (ill leave that one open.) lol images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Actually refering to anthrax and illness infections in general AIDS could angrogens be used on a low risk situations along with other drugs preparations, to trick the brain into boosting the immune system into a higher state of alert, we know synthetic pheromones raise testorone levels and in males anyway reaised testorstorone levels (andgroen levels) have a higher immune response (my experinece i no longer get sick at all) and signafiy to women a healthy immune system and a higher power/respect genetic level. Seems to be how things biologically are linked together.

[Whitehall]

Here\'s my technical basis...

Per \"Radioisotope Engineering\" by Eichholz, typical irradiator design numbers are a delivered dose of 8,000 to 10,000 rads for insect sterilization (cockroach LD50 is higher but at least they stop breeding!). For radiopasteurization of shellfish and other marine products - 75,000 to 500,000 rads. For sterilization of medical supplies and meat products - 2,500,000 to 4,500,000 rads.

Hence, I wouldn\'t be surprised to see Post Offices doses of 1,000,000 rads. Spores are \"resting\" so are going to be tough even if no DNA repair processes are active. Now, teflon is useless after 10,000 rads but that\'s the most radiosensitive organic I know - must be all those C-F bonds.

So, we\'ll just have to wait and see.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If the Post office uses 100 KRads, I think that anything that is not Superman strength will be rotten/dead on delivery. I would guess that an X ray system of separating things and looking for some type of unique parameter/signature of the spores is what they are trying for. I can?t say if this is possible, but any thing that has a half life would be fried by 100 KRads. . . On the other hand, dispersal agents to reduce static charges between the spores have been used. Perhaps looking for unique traits of these cmpds will be the deciding factor.

One other note, irradiating something at level requires a bit of power. This does not sound feasible for 1,000 people towns. Even large cities would have to have massive rebuilds to pull that off. If it is the path that the postal service is taking, it seems like a huge undertaking.

[Whitehall]

Today\'s news brings word that two batches of mail caught fire inside the irradiator machines.

OHHH-Weeee! That\'s hotter than I expected.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Geez! With those kind of doses, I wonder how long it\'ll be before someone gets the bright idea of sending U-238 through the mail so that they can make radioisotopes?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I can see it now, Using Your Post Office as a Breeder Reactor, A Review. . . Not only that, but could you imagine the funny colors clothes would turn. Dyes have a ton of delocalized electrons (Read as: Things that do not like high energy) I wonder what that would do. Honey, your new toast colored blouse was delivered today. . .

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What about posting uranium to the post office, then after its been irridated you will have nuclear grade plutonium to make nuclear bombs. Hey theres an idea for the terrisots send nuclear material through the post office and then use the bombs upon the post office. Where is the world going, plasma subatomic weapons to disintergrate targets. Science fiction (maybe)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Actually I was joking. Uranium 238 requires another subatomic particle to become Plutonium 239. The energy required to do this is not a function of what is irradiated. But, I sort of wanted to make light of that. . . Oh well, and this is a Phero site, he, he, he.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Is that outgoing or incoming mail, because if its outgoing there should be no problem if its incoming then one can just buy it or ship it from japan or australia or europe even.

[Whitehall]

One of my colleagues is the company expert on radiation damage to organic materials - we work for one of the world\'s pre-eminent manufacturers of nuclear reactors so this guy knows.

I asked him what would happen to colognes put through the Post Office\'s new irradiators - his immediate answer - \"The stuff would smell like dog shit.\"

As to transmutate uranium-238 into plutonium, one adds slow neutrons while the irradiators use x-rays so no nuclear transformations expected.