View Full Version : Good article on androstadienone
surfs_up
04-25-2005, 12:33 PM
check
this out...
http://www.senseofsmell.org/acr/Volume_VII_No_%204.pdf
Icehawk
04-25-2005, 07:09 PM
Ohh yeah, good read. Confirms
most of our findings, except never paid atention to the fact that it causes a 'down' after long exposure time to
it. Makes sense biologically though, natures way of creating a need for more social closeness...
metropolitan
04-25-2005, 10:52 PM
perfect timing! my first
bottle of it arrived to day, i've been very curious to experiment with it.
it's a problem to do a good forum
search for it since it's often referred to as A1 which is too short a word for a search.
thanks for the
article.
any comments or reviews on the use of androstadienone greatly appreciated
NaughtieGirl
04-26-2005, 04:38 AM
check this
out...
http://www.senseofsmell.org/acr/Volume_VII_No_%204.p
df (http://www.senseofsmell.org/acr/Volume_VII_No_%204.pdf)Thank you Surfs_up! :thumbsup:
But now I’m trying to grasp the bottom-line of this article. Would you (or anyone else) mind
commenting on these statements? :think:
First they
say:
“We determined that .4,16-androstadien-3-one
(androstadienone) fails to simply release specific feelings of increased self-esteem, friendliness or sociability in
women and 1,3,5(10)16-estratetraen-3-ol (estratetraenol) fails to do the same for men.”
...
Stimulation with these
chemicals ... produced gender-specific patterns of electrical activity. This suggests that psychological effects
might also be gender-specific; however this turned out not to be the case.
But then they say:
“However, both
steroids produced changes in pharmacological, emotional, and physical state relative to control in both men and
women over a nine-hour period after initial exposure.”
...
Interestingly, at nine hours after
exposure when the effects of the steroids may have been wearing off, women appeared to manifest a rebound effect ... women felt
depressed...
Then – Now I’m paraphrasing because I’m tired
of cut and paste
Women responded both to androstadienone and
estratetraenol.
Men responded only to estratetraenol.
For women anxiety and feeling down rebounded or increased after 2
hours.
Men rebounded after 9 hours.
So anxiety and and feeling down increased after 2
hours/9hours?
But it also says:
Men had initially a more negative mood response to both
steroids, including androstadienone.... With estratetraenol men reported greater earlier negative responses on the
drug and mood scales.
But earlier it states that men only
responded to estratetraenol? Also, I understood that the mood response was immediate and then the rebound (bad)
effect came respectively 2 hours later for women and 9 hours later for men?
I’m not even talking about their next study where they say:
Androstadienone, however, maintained their initial levels of positive mood and prevented the increase of
negative mood seen when they were exposed only to the carrier oil.
I’m so confusing myself now. :frustrate Has my reading comprehension gone down the drain, or is this
article not very clearly written? What are your thoughts on this article?
surfs_up
04-26-2005, 06:45 AM
the gist of the article appears to be that these pheromones trigger a
general state of increased activity in the brain, in some fashion like the effects of other drugs (albeit far
milder), and there is a noted rebound effect as is also noted with other drugs (that may account for some of the
negative reports), buttttt, they aren't acting as SPECIFIC triggers for sexual behavior or sexual fantasy. It now
seems most probable that the sexual or sensual aspect requires contextual factors which the pheromones (at least
these pheromones) may amplify...
NaughtieGirl
04-26-2005, 07:03 AM
Thanks again Surfs_up. So
to summarize:
...fails to simply release specific feelings of
increased self-esteem, friendliness or sociability in women ... fails to do the same for men. -
Meaning no sexual effect.
However, both
steroids produced changes in pharmacological, emotional, and physical state relative to control in both men and
women over a nine-hour period after initial exposure.
Women
responded both to androstadienone and estratetraenol.
Men responded
only to estratetraenol.
Women rebounded after 2 hours.
- Guys you have 2 hours to make an impression! :lol:
Men rebounded after 9 hours. - Galls we get to take our time!
This I still don't understand:
Men had initially a more negative mood response to both steroids,
including androstadienone.... With estratetraenol men reported greater earlier negative responses on the drug and
mood scales.
Oh they must be talking about
"initial" response at time of rebound, not at time of application?
Androstadienone, however, maintained their (men and
womens?) initial levels of positive mood and prevented the increase of negative mood seen when they were
exposed only to the carrier oil.- This still seems a contradiction to the paragraph
above.
I don't mean to sound picky, I just hate it when I don't fully
comprehend something! :POKE:
Now... If only they could repeat all those studies with all the other and new pheromones, we'd be all
set! :lol:
surfs_up
04-26-2005, 09:08 AM
I'd bet their staff writer doesn't know the subject well, if at all, and was handed a
research report and told to turn it into understandable language for the non-scientist reader. Some parts of this
article are incoherent, as you noticed. I'm curious whether there is an intial, moments after exposure "bumout
window" afer which there is mood elevation, after which there is another bumout window, or if there is an initial
(dopamine release from the sound of it) mood/attention upsurge followed by a negative rebound. There have been
sufficient ambiguities reported here as anecdote, "OD responses" etc... that suggest some subject may experience
hostility, negative emotions, onset of depression perhaps (a paradoxical dopamine response ?) where others
experience mood elevation. Anyone who has been through the throes of intense young romance-sexual attraction knows
how intrinsically mood swingy procreative behaviors are.... Surfs_Up theory of imprinting is: elevated brain
activity probably increases long term memory potentiation (this also explains why Post Traumatic Stess Disorder
involves disturbing memories "hard imprinted"... those memories were formed during periods of maximal brain
stimulation).... in mate selection, Mother Nature may have wanted the images/memories of one's mate to be strongly
fixed, and the pheromonal surge of these substances may permit the brain to make indelible associations.... and this
may also explain why certain persons who are total jerks remain hard to remove from one's thoughts... there is a
powerful associative bridge formed between pleasure memory sensations (emotional/physical) and images of this
person... even when subsequent events show that logically you want to not be connected to that person. Under the
right conditions, when a good relationship choice is made for both logical and emotional reasons, the pheromonal
imprinting establishes the basis of a long term pair bond... I think...
metropolitan
04-26-2005, 09:52 AM
if it makes things clearer.
it says men only responded with the vno to estratetraenol but they did have a psychological reaction to both
androstadienone and estratetraenol --therefore the psychological reaction of males to androstadienone seems to come
independently of the VNO. makes sense?
as to other issues in the article there's a feeling that it's attempting
to repudiate claims on pheromones and hardwired sexual reactions (remember that dr mcclintock is one of the classic
pheromone researchers and i'm sure much of her findings are often distorted and exaggerated so it seems she tries
to take a very cautious approach) the only problem is that she just adds fuel to the fire in this
paragraph:
Body states of sensuality and warmth (measured by a visual analog scale) were
increased
or maintained by androstadienone.Since animal research has inextricably
linked behavioral pheromones to
sexualbehavior, further work is required to
determine which specific aspects of physical condition made
women feel more
sensual and whether this is related to underlying mood states or to physical
state
changes that are associated with sexual arousal.
what i got out of it is that there is a
sexual/sensual response, but that a correct context is necessary. the circumstances of a clinical experiment don't
sound too sexy. since there was a sensual reaction during that trial then i'm sure it is amplified in a more sexual
context and with a recepient as the originator and focus of the sensual impulse.
other clinical experiments that
have used pictures of potential mates and have shown increase in sensual evaluation --which in a sense is focusing
the sensual response on the picture and essentially forcing a cause-and-effect evaluation in the mind of the test
subject. (i.e. "i have a higher sexual/sensual feeling, it must be due to the picture of this cute guy" --when it's
actually due to the level of androstadienone in the air).
NaughtieGirl
04-26-2005, 03:10 PM
Yes, it certainly is not clearly written. Maybe as Metropolitan pointed out, they are trying to be very cautious.
Then they throw in the other stuff, creating confusion because.... they would like to do further research! Now
where's that grant money! :lol:
See - "...further work is required to determine which specific aspects of
physical condition made women feel more sensual and whether this is related to ..."
Their comments about the "no
light on the potential existence of a human VNO" are neither here nor there for me, because I don't believe (only
from what I've read, I could be wrong) that the two are mutually exclusive. In other words if someone proves to me
tomorrow that there is no VNO, I would still have faith in the pheromones.
jollysnowdevil
04-26-2005, 10:06 PM
kind of contradictory to
itself
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