I've been putting Chikara to the test this week at especially at the gym and

[Sigfreed]

I've been putting Chikara to the test this week at especially at the gym

and I maybe getting somewhere with it or it could be my imagination.

I've been going to this particular gym

for a couple of years now. I started talking to this very attractive Mid Eastern female aobut 25 about a year

ago.

She always has men of all ages following her around like puppy dogs trying to talk to her. This is

something I will never do even though like all of us I made the mistake for a couple of years in my late teens and

early 20's.

So mostly I'd interact with her when she'd walk by me and she'd say hello, smile, and give a

little flirty chit chat. Then other times I would try to talk to her she'd either ignore me or just say hello w/o a

smile.
But always I would see her checking me out from across the other side of the gym and when I'd look in her

direction she'd quickly look away.

There was a period of a month maybe 5 weeks that I wouldn't say hello to

her b/c one day she didn't even say hello. So for about 5 weeks she wouldn't say hello to me, but I would still

see her checking me out so I'm like WTF?

She would also very often come on a treadmill that was right next

to mine when all the other tread mills were open. Yet she'd only keep brief conversations.

I always thought

she was a snob especially what others have told me about her. But I think I and they are wrong.

Now this week

with the Chikara which I also do believe is a builder and one needs more than one exposure to your signature with

it.

On Monday I was doing my chest and I was hoping to run into her and sure enough she was training in the

same section I was. She walked by me fairly close and said hello followed by a sexy smile.

Then I noticed she

took a second fast look with a very quick somewhat of a surprised look on her face and went to talk to her

girlfriend she was training with. They (mainly her) looked like giddy highschool girls when they were

talking.

The next day, Tuesday of this week I had 2.5 sprays on my neck and 2 on my T-shirt.

I had

start up with my treadmill at the end. She put her stuff on the treadmill right next to me and went in the locker. 2

treadmills over this guy I know (as I trained with him before) who she speaks to was there and the treadmill

inbetween her and him was empty. I thought she would've went next to him but instead she came next to me.

I

was speaking to her a bit asking how her week was going and what she does on weekends, if she had any vacation time.

She kept it very brief. Almost ignoring me. Then she kept on jumping to the other treadmill to talk to the other

guy.

I heard her say "he's hot" and some other things. I had a phone call on my cell phone and at that point

she went over to him again.

I heard him say "well don't talk to me, talk to him". Then I finished on the

treadmill and I said "I'll see you later" and she replied "chow".

I went into the locker room as usual, and

when I came out I waved to her. Normally she just gives a little discreet wave and little smile.



What

she did this time BLEW ME AWAY. Not only did she give a sexy wave and sexy smile, BUT FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER she

gave me a very sexy wink.

Now I'm trying to figure out if she's into me as she gives me plenty of mixed

signals. Yes I know some women like to play hard to get, but we're beyond that point now.

So I'm confused.

I guess I will have to see what plays out tomorrow evening?

So there was already some flirtiness going on

waaaaay before the Chikara, but when I had the Chikara on I heard her say "he's hot" and she gave me that sexy wink

and smile.

My big quesiton is, HOW SHOULD I BE WITH HER? WHAT TYPES OF THINGS SHOULD I SAY TO HER TO KEEP IT

ON A SEXY LEVEL?

Thanks all sorry for the length, but there was a lot of needed detail to describe.

[Bigman808]

First off, thanks for posting!

That seems like a girl playing very hard to get, especially with her dangling the bait in front of you. I feel you

on the confusion, but I'll try to help as much as I can.

To address your first question, 'HOW SHOULD I BE WITH

HER?', I'd say KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. This can't hurt at all, plus it will allow you to further evaluate

what signals she's sending and what the hell she's getting at. Now, when I say keep it simple, I don't mean

don't talk to her or barely say anything. I think you should keep up what you're doing, though I don't think it

will hurt to hint or even outright ask her to get together. As you said earlier, you don't want to be a guy who

follows her around like a puppy dog. That would be just plain detrimental and kill all chances you have with her.



For your second question, I have a few different answers.
1.) The main thing you DON'T want to do is to

wuss it up. If you start acting like her maid and servant, you're going to be fuc*ed, plain and simple.
2.) Start

joking with her. Bust her balls, tease her, and have fun when you speak to her. If you come across as nervous or

tense when you talk to her, she's going to pick up on that immediately. Women are incredible at reading body

language, and I doubt this woman is an exception.

Lastly, keep it up with the Chikara. That seems to be the main

catalyst for her reactions, so I think that will only help you in this situation. Good luck man!

[tim929]

I wonder if culture plays any

roll in her being hard to get and sending mixed signals.If she is accustomed to dealing with men in a predatory

environment she will tend to be very cautious in the signals she sends.Another thig to be careful of is comming off

as a whimp.A woman who was raised with predatory men will be somwhat predatory herself and will not tolerate

weakness.I have a friend who spent some time over seas who ran into exactly that problem.In the staes he could

handle himself fairly well...but once he got out into the real world the rules changed and he became a doormat more

than once.No fault of his own...they just play hard ball out there....

[chicago]

good luck sigfreed, ask her

out, if she say no or makes a excuse, forget about her there are millions of better chicks out there, don't waste

your time on mind games . life is to short. move on
________
Bong Pictures (http://glassbongs.org/)

[Gegogi]

"...don't waste your time

on mind games . life is to short. move on"

Now that's a personal preference. Some guys love and

thrive on such challenges. I find the chase is often more fun than the kill.

[Watcher]

just like guys girls will flirt

with dozens of attractive guys a day given the chance - dont go getting youreself all worked up mentally - keep it

simple stupid - ask her out as simple as that shell say no or yes (if she is playing hard to get but wants you she

will say yes if she isnt interested she will say no) dont let her say um maybe and string u along - personally i

want a yes off the bat without her playing games - if she is serious shell say yes if not youve lost nothing and you

move on.

Thats it really

[tim929]

Deep Purple did a song...called

Knocking at your back door..."It's not the kill,it's the thrill of the chase..."

[Watcher]

Ive doen the chasing - 25 now dont

work as hard if they really are interested i let them chase me so far - make sure they are interested then move in -

if i get a no (not maybe antoher definete date if they are busy but a straight out no or get fluffed around - i move

on - time is percious to me dont spend my time wasting it on dead ends.

[happyman]

good luck

sigfreed, ask her out, if she say no or makes a excuse, forget about her there are millions of better chicks out

there, don't waste your time on mind games . life is to short. move

on

__________________________________________________ __________________

I agree to a point. I

would not ask her out right this second. Things are just starting to develop on her end.

Now to our

poster:
I would play it cool for a bit longer anyway. Once a girl is interested she stays that way if she was

truly interested.

I would make friends but NOT "friend friends" if you know what I mean. Then you will know

when the oppurtunity is in front of you to call the ball and casualy ask her to meet you somewhere.

I would

keep it casual as I could. Seems like this is working. I wouldn't ask her out on an official date either. I would

just drop to her where you are going to be that weekend and see if she shows up. If she is truly

interested....she'll be there. If that doesn't work ask her to meet you out.

Happy

[MOBLEYC57]

Do onto others as others do onto

you. Sounds like you're getting tested ... 1, 2, 3, tested, but she has you posting and asking about her actions

... girl - 100, you - 10.

Could be anything from teasing to how long will it take to get you to ask her out to

"getting him" to want me too, like all the rest of the guys here at the gym falling all over themselves.

If it

were me, I'd mirror her past actions ... ignoring, staying out of the way, half speaking, speaking with a smile,

winking. Sometimes you have to find your nuts, so, stand up and fight like a man you coward! Seriously, the game is

and has been ... on! Play if you dare.:run:

[Sigfreed]

BigBossMan808


First

off, thanks for posting! That seems like a girl playing very hard to get, especially with her dangling the bait in

front of you. I feel you on the confusion, but I'll try to help as much as I can. I am actually glad to

write this first post. You are right about her dangling the bait right infront of me. I was doing abs at the end of

the workout with a couple of other guys I know. She comes on a cable machine to do ab pulldown crunches with her

knees on the ground if you can picture this. So every time she crunches her very attractive behind is just right

there infront of you. We all couldn't help to look as she always where's tight gym pants where you can see her

thong and I always see her looking at me from across the room.

I don't want to be mean to anyone, but the first

impression I had of her was snob as that's the body language she gave off.



To address your first

question, 'HOW SHOULD I BE WITH HER?', I'd say KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. This can't hurt at all, plus it will

allow you to further evaluate what signals she's sending and what the hell she's getting at. Now, when I say keep

it simple, I don't mean don't talk to her or barely say anything. I think you should keep up what you're doing,

though I don't think it will hurt to hint or even outright ask her to get together. As you said earlier, you don't

want to be a guy who follows her around like a puppy dog. That would be just plain detrimental and kill all chances

you have with her. I agree with you, and I will never let myself be in a position to be her maid or follow

her around like a puppy dog. I've seen her ask guys to go fill up her water bottle while she's on the treadmill

and they actually do it.

I would probably respond in a joking yet cocky way "you want me to fill up your bottle?

How about you fill up mine instead" Or something like that to show her I'm not a waiter.

As for signals that

sexy wink/smile on my way out I received was probably the most flirty she's been with me and that was after I wore

the Chikara.

As for asking her out, that I'm a big nervous as sometimes I feel out of her league despite being

good looking and well built. But maybe by this point she doesn't feel that way.


For your second

question, I have a few different answers.
1.) The main thing you DON'T want to do is to wuss it up. If you

start acting like her maid and servant, you're going to be fuc*ed, plain and simple.
2.) Start joking with her.

Bust her balls, tease her, and have fun when you speak to her. If you come across as nervous or tense when you talk

to her, she's going to pick up on that immediately. Women are incredible at reading body language, and I doubt this

woman is an exception. To number one, I will never, never, never play that game. I will be gone before it

gets to that level.

To number two, what types of jokes would you recommend to "bust her balls" as you say and

tease her? I have a few but I need some new material LOL. But I know exactly what you mean. Yes I have fun with

her.

As for being nervous, you know what's funny? I sometimes become nervous especially being out of the dating

scene for about three years, but since I've been wearing my Chikara, my nervousness is gone. I feel like I could

approach any woman and not give a f^ck what they say in return.

So with that said I am not nervous around her

at all.


Lastly, keep it up with the Chikara. That seems to be the main catalyst for her reactions, so I

think that will only help you in this situation. Good luck man! I think you are right as I've gotten more

positive reactions from her including a "he's hot" comment to another guy and a sexy wink/smile

Thanks for your

advice and I will look for your reply.

tim929


I wonder if culture plays any roll in her being hard

to get and sending mixed signals.If she is accustomed to dealing with men in a predatory environment she will tend

to be very cautious in the signals she sends.Another thig to be careful of is comming off as a whimp.A woman who was

raised with predatory men will be somwhat predatory herself and will not tolerate weakness.I have a friend who spent

some time over seas who ran into exactly that problem.In the states he could handle himself fairly well...but once

he got out into the real world the rules changed and he became a doormat more than once.No fault of his own...they

just play hard ball out there....This could be as she is Arabic although I don't know how strict her

background is. But she seems pretty layed back around the gym and when I talk to her.

I never let myself come

off as a whimp and totally agree with you. I totally understand what you are referring to.

Chicago




good luck sigfreed, ask her out, if she say no or makes a excuse, forget about her there are millions of better

chicks out there, don't waste your time on mind games . life is to short. move on I couldn't have said it

better myself. Can't argue with these facts.
BTW way where are you from Chicago?

Just joking :D

Watcher




just like guys girls will flirt with dozens of attractive guys a day given the chance - dont go getting

youreself all worked up mentally - keep it simple stupid - ask her out as simple as that shell say no or yes (if she

is playing hard to get but wants you she will say yes if she isnt interested she will say no) dont let her say um

maybe and string u along - personally i want a yes off the bat without her playing games - if she is serious shell

say yes if not youve lost nothing and you move on.

Thats it really I agree with this, but one thing

I've noticed with some women especially when playing hard to get is that let's say you ask them out yet they say

no.
So you think they aren't interested and move on. But they continue talking to you and flirting with you. So

you are like WTF? So you just go about your business. Then one day they ask you out.

What's the deal with this?

They don't always like to say yes to a date right away or the first time you ask them. It's been my experience

that a no to a date, doesn't always mean no to a date. As I said I've been asked out by them after I quit spending

my time on them.

MobleyC57


Do onto others as others do onto you. Sounds like you're getting tested

... 1, 2, 3, tested, but she has you posting and asking about her actions ... girl - 100, you - 10.

Could be

anything from teasing to how long will it take to get you to ask her out to "getting him" to want me too, like all

the rest of the guys here at the gym falling all over themselves.

If it were me, I'd mirror her past actions

... ignoring, staying out of the way, half speaking, speaking with a smile, winking. Sometimes you have to find your

nuts, so, stand up and fight like a man you coward! Seriously, the game is and has been ... on! Play if you

dare I agree with do onto others as they would have them do onto you. Funny thing is, she talks to me but

doesn't really ask me very much about myself.
I will now do what she does. If I have the opportunity I will give

her a wink.



But my big question goes back to BigBossMan808's reply about tease her joke with her, and

"bust her balls" so to speak.

My question is what are the best types of jokes to do this? I have a few, but I

could use some new "material" LOL.

Is there a female who would also care to elaborate on what I've written?



But I do think that the Chikara as brought down the wall she put up otherwise I wouldn't have had the sexy

wink/smile or overheard her say
"I'm hot to another guy".

I basically want to be at a point that I have her

approaching me trying to get some sort of physical contact like brushing up on me "accidently" or putting her hands

on mine or on my arm, flirting with me and asking things about me. That's where I want to get.

I guess the

best way would be KISS?

All your opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks again. Sorry for the long reply, I had

a few ppl to quote and important details to add.

[esk6969]

So mostly I'd

interact with her when she'd walk by me and she'd say hello, smile, and give a little flirty chit chat. Then other

times I would try to talk to her she'd either ignore me or just say hello w/o a smile.
But always I would see her

checking me out from across the other side of the gym and when I'd look in her direction she'd quickly look

away.

snip

Now this week with the Chikara which I also do believe is a builder...

Then I noticed she

took a second fast look with a very quick somewhat of a surprised look on her face...

Your experiences

with Chikara very closely mirror my own. We probably have similar chemical signatures. I agree that it tends to

lower approach barriers on both sides, and also acts as a very effective "base" that is almost never inappropriate.

I get EXACTLY the same kinds of IOI's you describe, both with Chikara, and with TE (although the TE is less

consistent, but stronger when it does hit).

And the "second fast look", combined with the "look of surprise",

IMO, is a 100% 'mone hit. I've had EXACTLY the same types of hits, and have posted on that before. To me,

that's a difference between a 'mone hit, and just simple attraction. You can almost tell the 'mones are

involved, because of the surprise element. I.E., the chick has already seen, evaluated, and categorized you in .34

microseconds, all subconsiously, as chicks are prone to do. But, the 'mones seem to add an extra element that

wasn't previously there, and this throws them off guard for just a split second, and you get the second look, with

the surprise expression - almost like they are experiencing a deja vu, of sorts. :whip:

I think you've gotten

good advice already on how to proceed. I would recommend against seeking canned material to use on her, and

instead, just be playfully flirtatious, without being submissive, in the context of the moment. I also agree you

should mirror her behavior a bit, do a bit of the same on again/off again (known elsewhere as a "push/pull" tactic),

to raise her level of interest. One day, chat her up, the next day ignore her, etc. This is like deep sea fishing,

you're going to have to pull on the line a bit, and then let it go slack, back and forth.

Most early dating

relationships seem to follow a general Attraction->Rapport->Seduction pattern. It seems like you've already got

some attraction between your physical appearance, your flirting, and your 'mones.

The mistake most guys make

in this phase, is that they then escalate to asking for the phone number, or the date, without establishing rapport.

If you only have attraction, but not rapport, and then try to get the #, they are usually not emotionally invested

enough to respond, and they give the kneejerk "I have a boyfriend" reaction, whether they really have one or not.



You need to build up some rapport with her. Maybe, one day when you are chatting her up, you can try to find some

common ground or interest, and then, in subsequent meetings, playfully bust her on it.

For instance, maybe you

both really like buying collectibles of some type (just bear with me here, it's an example, not a routine:). In

subsequent meetings, ask her how her collecting is going, playfully tease her she overpaid for this or that, etc.

Hopefully it goes without saying that your playful teasing needs to have a fun, sexual undertone to it, and gets her

thinking of you in terms of a potential lover, rather than a friend. Plenty of advice out there on how to do that,

I'm not going to repeat it here.

Then, when some event comes up featuring your common interest, you mention it

to her. You don't necessarily ask for her to go with you, just mention you were thinking about going, has she ever

been to one of those before, etc. If she still doesn't take the hint, but you get good IOI's, then mention maybe

you should go together. Assuming she agrees, you finish off the convo, and then when walking away, almost as an

afterthought, say "oh wait, let me get your number so I can call you for directions/in case I get lost/to confirm

that day/whatever. Just as if you were setting up an appointment with a male friend to go out to a bar - you

wouldn't be all "umm, so, uh, dude, do you think I'd could like, get your number - I mean, you know, just to call

you for this event, not to harass you or anything", he'd look at you like you were a freak, right? Same with this.

Getting the digits should just be a natural, flowing part of the interaction, that comes from your already

established attraction and rapport.

That's a long way around, but you asked about getting *THIS* girl, not just

any girl. In this environment, she is at a very high level of social value (I know exactly what you mean by the

cable crunch/ass display move, seen that so many times), so a straight approach will most likely get shot down. You

either have to raise your value level to her own (called "value calibration" on those "other" sites), or lower hers

to meet your own, with tactics like "neg hits", "freezouts", "takeways", and "push/pull". Really though, with your

already having the attraction somewhat established, I think that would be over-complicating the issue.

Or, you

could scrap all that, and go direct, walk right up to her, and say "You know, it seems a little ridiculous this game

we're playing, when we're so obviously attracted to one another. I'd like to have coffee some time, so we could

sit down, and get to know one another a little better." Assuming she agrees, then just get the # like above. May

work, may not, but at least you'd know where you stood for sure, and that would then free you up to concentrate on

other prospects. Wait, what the heck am I saying, you should be concentrating on other prospects simultaneously

anyway....
:POKE:

Good luck!

[Sigfreed]

esk6969


Your

experiences with Chikara very closely mirror my own. We probably have similar chemical signatures. I agree that it

tends to lower approach barriers on both sides, and also acts as a very effective "base" that is almost never

inappropriate. I get EXACTLY the same kinds of IOI's you describe, both with Chikara, and with TE (although the TE

is less consistent, but stronger when it does hit).

And the "second fast look", combined with the "look of

surprise", IMO, is a 100% 'mone hit. I've had EXACTLY the same types of hits, and have posted on that before. To

me, that's a difference between a 'mone hit, and just simple attraction. You can almost tell the 'mones are

involved, because of the surprise element. I.E., the chick has already seen, evaluated, and categorized you in .34

microseconds, all subconsiously, as chicks are prone to do. But, the 'mones seem to add an extra element that

wasn't previously there, and this throws them off guard for just a split second, and you get the second look, with

the surprise expression - almost like they are experiencing a deja vu, of sorts. :whip:

I think you've gotten

good advice already on how to proceed. I would recommend against seeking canned material to use on her, and instead,

just be playfully flirtatious, without being submissive, in the context of the moment. I also agree you should

mirror her behavior a bit, do a bit of the same on again/off again (known elsewhere as a "push/pull" tactic), to

raise her level of interest. One day, chat her up, the next day ignore her, etc. This is like deep sea fishing,

you're going to have to pull on the line a bit, and then let it go slack, back and forth.

Most early dating

relationships seem to follow a general Attraction->Rapport->Seduction pattern. It seems like you've already got

some attraction between your physical appearance, your flirting, and your 'mones.

The mistake most guys make in

this phase, is that they then escalate to asking for the phone number, or the date, without establishing rapport. If

you only have attraction, but not rapport, and then try to get the #, they are usually not emotionally invested

enough to respond, and they give the kneejerk "I have a boyfriend" reaction, whether they really have one or

not.

You need to build up some rapport with her. Maybe, one day when you are chatting her up, you can try to find

some common ground or interest, and then, in subsequent meetings, playfully bust her on it.

For instance, maybe

you both really like buying collectibles of some type (just bear with me here, it's an example, not a routine:). In

subsequent meetings, ask her how her collecting is going, playfully tease her she overpaid for this or that, etc.

Hopefully it goes without saying that your playful teasing needs to have a fun, sexual undertone to it, and gets her

thinking of you in terms of a potential lover, rather than a friend. Plenty of advice out there on how to do that,

I'm not going to repeat it here.

Then, when some event comes up featuring your common interest, you mention it

to her. You don't necessarily ask for her to go with you, just mention you were thinking about going, has she ever

been to one of those before, etc. If she still doesn't take the hint, but you get good IOI's, then mention maybe

you should go together. Assuming she agrees, you finish off the convo, and then when walking away, almost as an

afterthought, say "oh wait, let me get your number so I can call you for directions/in case I get lost/to confirm

that day/whatever. Just as if you were setting up an appointment with a male friend to go out to a bar - you

wouldn't be all "umm, so, uh, dude, do you think I'd could like, get your number - I mean, you know, just to call

you for this event, not to harass you or anything", he'd look at you like you were a freak, right? Same with this.

Getting the digits should just be a natural, flowing part of the interaction, that comes from your already

established attraction and rapport.

That's a long way around, but you asked about getting *THIS* girl, not just

any girl. In this environment, she is at a very high level of social value (I know exactly what you mean by the

cable crunch/ass display move, seen that so many times), so a straight approach will most likely get shot down. You

either have to raise your value level to her own (called "value calibration" on those "other" sites), or lower hers

to meet your own, with tactics like "neg hits", "freezouts", "takeways", and "push/pull". Really though, with your

already having the attraction somewhat established, I think that would be over-complicating the issue.

Or, you

could scrap all that, and go direct, walk right up to her, and say "You know, it seems a little ridiculous this game

we're playing, when we're so obviously attracted to one another. I'd like to have coffee some time, so we could

sit down, and get to know one another a little better." Assuming she agrees, then just get the # like above. May

work, may not, but at least you'd know where you stood for sure, and that would then free you up to concentrate on

other prospects. Wait, what the heck am I saying, you should be concentrating on other prospects simultaneously

anyway....
:POKE:

Good luck!
Glad to hear someone else has had similar reactions to Chikara as me.

Basically you said what I'm going to do. I'm just going to be cool, play it smooth. Not follow her around like a

puppy dog or servant. I will do my best to mimmick her behavior and see what happens.

I'm going to wait a bit

for the number or date. But I definitely think that the Chikara has started to bring down "the wall" that many women

can put up.

Thanks again.

[chicago]

sigfreed i am from chicago

(downtown area). i dated a middle east woman before when i broke up. her brothers and relatives beat the shit out of

me. i seen the trill of the chase cost guys time and money (sometimes a year and hundreds or maybe thousands of

dollars) and not get shit from the chick. so be careful... good

luck.
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Bigman808]

Sigfreed, sorry for taking so

long to get back to you, I just got home from work and didn't have any time to reply.

I'm glad to hear you

don't want to be a puppy dog, that's the absolute worst way to go. Also, I'm glad to hear your confidence is

going up! That's always a plus, and never ceases to help with women. Try out other 'mones, and see if they give

you the same 'confidence booster' that you are getting with Chikara.

As to busting her balls, here's what I

mean: You said the thing about her filling up YOUR water bottle. YES! Exactly, man! You want to turn things

around, put the role reversal in place, and have her be at the receiving end of your requests, and so forth. Make

fun of her, but don't be outright dicky about it. Don't be like, 'hey, you look like sh!t!' or something.

That'll just get you a slap in the face and no booty. When you tease a girl, you want to use the things she says

as a base for your jokes. Like, if she says 'If you're lucky, you might get my phone number...' you can reply

with 'Are you kidding? It's me we're talking about here! If you're lucky, I'll give you MY number!' and so

on and so forth. Get what I'm saying? If not, say so, and I'll try to give more examples. Post your results

man! Glad I could help!

[Sigfreed]

Chicago


sigfreed i

am from chicago (downtown area). i dated a middle east woman before when i broke up. her brothers and relatives beat

the shit out of me. i seen the trill of the chase cost guys time and money (sometimes a year and hundreds or maybe

thousands of dollars) and not get shit from the chick. so be careful... good luck.
I was just joking

about being from Chicago LOL. So this middle eastern woman's brother's beat the shit out of you for breaking up

with her? Or for sleeping with her?

Did you call the police and place charges on them? I sure would've. I agree

wasting time and money on certain women and not getting any in return.

BigMan808


Sigfreed, sorry for

taking so long to get back to you, I just got home from work and didn't have any time to reply.

I'm glad to

hear you don't want to be a puppy dog, that's the absolute worst way to go. Also, I'm glad to hear your

confidence is going up! That's always a plus, and never ceases to help with women. Try out other 'mones, and see

if they give you the same 'confidence booster' that you are getting with Chikara.

Don't sweat not

responding, we all have our schedules and personal lives away from the forum we're on.

As for the puppy dog or

servant I haven't made that mistake since I was in my late teens and early 20's. Never again will I follow around

a woman or get suckered into doing her chores. If that's how she is with me than forget her.

Yes I feel much

more relaxed around women when I wear the Chikara. I feel the way I used to before I started dating my ex three

years ago. As for other mone's, which one's would you recommend that is a good sexual combination with Chikara?




As to busting her balls, here's what I mean: You said the thing about her filling up YOUR water bottle.

YES! Exactly, man! You want to turn things around, put the role reversal in place, and have her be at the receiving

end of your requests, and so forth. Make fun of her, but don't be outright dicky about it. Don't be like, 'hey,

you look like sh!t!' or something. That'll just get you a slap in the face and no booty. When you tease a girl,

you want to use the things she says as a base for your jokes. Like, if she says 'If you're lucky, you might get my

phone number...' you can reply with 'Are you kidding? It's me we're talking about here! If you're lucky, I'll

give you MY number!' and so on and so forth. Get what I'm saying? If not, say so, and I'll try to give more

examples. Post your results man! Glad I could help!
Yes, that's what I would say if she asked me to fill

up her water bottle. That's exactly what I thought about reversing the roles. Obviously not being dicky about it or

telling her she looks bad.

I always try to tease the woman I'm courting or trying to court. I've used that "if

you're lucky you'll get my phone #" joke before and it usually works more often than not.




This

evening she was at the gym. Of course I saw her looking at me when she came in. For the most part she didn't

approach me which I thought she might after she layed that sexy wink/smile at me the other day on the way out.

I

moved aroud the gym doing my exercises and she was on the other side and of course I saw her every so often looking

at me. I know she was looking at me as she kept looking right into my eyes.

Then I began doing my abs as did

she. She gradually worked her way close to where I was doing my abs. I said "hi how are you doing?" she replied "not

bad how are you?" I said "pretty good".

That was about it. There were 2 other guys she obviously new in the same

viscinity as we were. They kept going over to her every few minutes to talk to her. That's a puppy dog, they went

out of their way to go and talk to her.

I won't do that.

Anyway I went to my treadmill, I saw her go to the

locker room. I thought maybe she would come onto the treadmill but it turned out she was finished and was leaving.



As she walked by me on the treadmill, she was almost not even going to look at me or say bye until she looked

up and I winked at her and she gave a sexy yet at the same time shy smile.

I personally don't think this young

woman is a shy one. Yet I get the feeling she is either shy to talk to me more often and ask things about me or

maybe she is intimidated but I don't think that's the case?

What do you guys think? Could this be just an

extreme case of playing hard to get? She's been doing this for about 6 months. Always checking me out, saying hi

but she would never go out of her way to come and see me.

That's why I'm confused. And her sexy/shy smile in

response to my wink confuses me even more.

[chicago]

she is most likely fucking a

another guy. she likes the attention she is getting from you and others at the gym. 6 month and only smiles and

winks.

in the name of god, please move on
________
Expert

insurance (http://xpertinsurance.com/)

[Gegogi]

"i dated a middle east

woman before when i broke up. her brothers and relatives beat the shit out of me."

Funny you should

mention that. I had an Iranian GF in college. She was beautiful but a confused mix of modern western and traditional

Iranian values. After I had been dating her for only about a month we had a fight. The next day her 2 brothers came

over and pushed me around and made it clear they would kick my ass if I messed up their sister. I wasn't interested

in being really serious (marriage was out of the question) or getting my ass kicked so I faded away. After all that

trouble, I never got any!

Incidentally, I had to ask her older brother permission to take her out on our

first date.

[Sigfreed]

Chicago


she is most

likely fucking a another guy. she likes the attention she is getting from you and others at the gym. 6 month and

only smiles and winks.

in the name of god, please move on
I knew she was probably having sex with

another guy or she was at one time. I agree only smiles and hello's after 6 months followed by recent winks with

the Chikara is time to move on.

The thing is as I said I DON'T go out of my way to talk to her or be close to

her as many of the other guys and older men in the gym do.

It was just interesting to see new reactions from her

with the Chikara.
And I got that "he's hot" reply that I've been looking for. Not only did she say it, but she

said it to another guy that I know on Tuesday who was 2 treadmills over while she was next to me.

LOL he was

arguing with her and telling her to talk to me as she constantly was going over to him and I assume to ask questions

about me b/c she knows I also talk to him. Then the sexy wink/smile.



That's just my problem, getting her

to approach and ask me questions. Sometimes it appears as though she is shy but I don't think she is shy at all.

But why did her friend have to argue with her to get her to talk to me then? Why is she asking him things about me?

I don't get it?

Gegogi


Funny you should mention that. I had an Iranian GF in college. She was

beautiful but a confused mix of modern western and traditional Iranian values. After I had been dating her for only

about a month we had a fight. The next day her 2 brothers came over and pushed me around and made it clear they

would kick my ass if I messed up their sister. I wasn't interested in being really serious (marriage was out of the

question) or getting my ass kicked so I faded away. After all that trouble, I never got any!

Incidentally, I had

to ask her older brother permission to take her out on our first date.
I know what you mean. I dated a

very sexy Haitian girl and eventually after a few months when I met her parents they literally told her to stop

seeing me b/c I was a "whitey". Pretty insulting.

I'm friends with ppl from many different nationalities

including different African American descent, Greek, Italian, you name it. I also have Arabic friends. They and

their families are from North America never lived in the Middle East.

They don't behave this way even the

Islamic and Muslim Arabs I know. And the Christian Arabs I'm friends with don't act this way either.

So it's

for sure a traditional culture clash.

It's not fair, but at the same time I understand where traditional

families are coming from.

[chicago]

sigfreed thats her game, to

make you think about her alot, because everytime you think about her over and over, the image of her becomes bigger

and bigger, like advertising and brain washing, then finally controling you brain, she think its fun fucking with

you brain. by the way woman can see right threw you that you want them , even if you dont act like a puppy. they

can feel the were you stand.

my last advice to you is
1) stop thinking about her,
2) ignore the shit out of

her (fuck the smiles and winks)
3) i bet you, if you see this chick after 10 years, she wont look that good (

compare to a younger girl).
4) everyday she is getting older and fallling apart more.
5) chicks are like cars,

worth lots of money when new, but worth shit when old. bad investment.
6) the fact is chicks need you, more than

you need them. in the long run
7) woman know the truth about them self, that why they shop for a rich guy, and try

to sucker him into marriage. if this arab girl knew, you were a multi-millionare, she would be sucking your dick,

for lunch , breakfest , dinner.

good luck

.
________
Children Depakote (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/depakote/)

[Bigman808]

I still don't know where you

want to go with this girl. Do you want to take her out? Do you want to just play games? Or do you want to bang

her like a salvation army drum? lol Depending on the outcome that you're hoping for, you need to change your

approach. This girl doesn't seem to be wanting anything, yet she doesn't seem to be assertively rejecting you, so

I think that means she's either playing games (VERY LIKELY), or she's just got a very strange way of showing what

she wants.

In my opinion, this girl is doing her best at confusing you. She's sending you mixed signals,

talking to other people you know about you, and then completely pulling a 180 and winking at you. I feel your

frustration, man. I know that if I was in your position, I'd be going out of my mind. Here's my advice to you

(reply with what you want from her, and I'll make it more specific) : When you have these little short

conversations with her, add something in quickly, like 'so, what are you up to this weekend?' or another

sidestepping question like that. Or, if you want and have the balls to do it, outright ask her. Esk6969 had a good

approach in his post, so I'd take that and run with it, or modify it where you feel is needed. THis little thing

between you and her isn't going to go anywhere unless one of you gets fed up or one of you makes a move. And,

I'll bet you the bottle of NPA I just got that it isn't going to be her.

Come to think about it, NPA with

Chikara would help you very much. Put a few drops of NPA on a wrist and cover it with a few sprays of Chikara. Rub

your wrists together, and you are set. This combo is jampacked with 'mones, and I'm pretty sure that if she took

a double take of you with the Chikara on, she'll take a triple with Chikara AND NPA. Good luck man, and post your

results as well as where you want this to go. Hope I'm of some assistance!

[culturalblonde]

Woman's point of

view:

I'm wondering if she is thinking the same about you, Sigfreed (referring to your first post). Maybe

she thinks she is not getting anywhere with you with all the smiling and waving and the one flirty wink. If you do

make a move and it doesn't work out, are you going to be comfortable at the same gym with her? That's something

you want to think about. Also, what are you waiting for? Do you want her to ask you out? This is one of the

reasons most beautiful woman do not get dates, because most guys are too scared to ask them out.

[Sigfreed]

culturalblonde




Woman's point of view:

I'm wondering if she is thinking the same about you, Sigfreed (referring to your first

post). Maybe she thinks she is not getting anywhere with you with all the smiling and waving and the one flirty

wink. If you do make a move and it doesn't work out, are you going to be comfortable at the same gym with her?

That's something you want to think about. Also, what are you waiting for? Do you want her to ask you out? This is

one of the reasons most beautiful woman do not get dates, because most guys are too scared to ask them out.


I very much appreciate a woman's insight here. Well as you know I don't let myself become a puppy dog or a

woman's personal servant like filling up her water bottle. If that happens she will think of you as a push over and

she will take immediate advantage of you and you will become even further distant from you.

We've all been

through that. I made that mistake with my very second and third girlfriend, even my current ex girlfriend. My

current ex girlfriend treated me like her personal chauffeur. I even told her so and she said that's not what was

going on. And that was one of the reasons we broke up b/c I was doing a lot for her and her parents and she wasn't

giving in return.


See here's where this gym hottie confuses me. The first few months I started training

there, the impression she gave me was snob the way she carried herself and always had men on her.

So I don't

usually spend my time on women as such. Until one day she came on the treadmill near me and talked to me a bit.

That's when the hello's and smiles began.

So I did the most natural thing and I'd try to talk to her if we

were in the same location of the gym as I didn't want to be one of the guys she always gets following her around.



The funny thing is when I would talk to her, she wouldn't always say much nor would she ask anything about me or

what I was up to and so on. Most ppl that I've dated when the first initial flirting goes on, they show some

interest by approaching me, asking about me, trying to touch me in some way and so on.

I am basically just

looking for some more signs of interest that I've listed above. And I'm not really getting those signs with her

until the wink this past week and I winked back and received a sexy/shy smile. But so far she hasn't gone out of

her way that much to approach me or find things out about me. As I said she was arguing with the guy on the

treadmill he was trying to get her to talk to me instead of asking him about me.

So you can see my confusion.

Very mixed signals. As I said most women I've dated, eventually started approaching me more often to find things

out about me.

I don't necessarily want her to ask me out, just show me a little more just talk to me and ask

questions about me. That's all I'm lookin for.

[Holmes]

5) chicks are like

cars, worth lots of money when new, but worth shit when old.

:lol:

Yeesh.

[Sigfreed]

BigMan808



I still

don't know where you want to go with this girl. Do you want to take her out? Do you want to just play games? Or do

you want to bang her like a salvation army drum? lol Depending on the outcome that you're hoping for, you need to

change your approach. This girl doesn't seem to be wanting anything, yet she doesn't seem to be assertively

rejecting you, so I think that means she's either playing games (VERY LIKELY), or she's just got a very strange

way of showing what she wants.
Well basically I'd like to get to a point of taking her out and see where

it leads. If it's a few dates and some fun and she just wants to be friends afterwards that's okay with me, or if

she eventually wants to be steady that's also fine with me.

I don't even know what type of approach to have

with this young woman b/c she gives such confusing signals to me and has yet to approach me or asked anything about

me. So you are right about not seeming to want anything, yet at the same time not rejecting me. It very well could

be games. But either way she's very strange in her body language. I'm just confused.


In my opinion,

this girl is doing her best at confusing you. She's sending you mixed signals, talking to other people you know

about you, and then completely pulling a 180 and winking at you. I feel your frustration, man. I know that if I was

in your position, I'd be going out of my mind. Here's my advice to you (reply with what you want from her, and

I'll make it more specific) : When you have these little short conversations with her, add something in quickly,

like 'so, what are you up to this weekend?' or another sidestepping question like that. Or, if you want and have

the balls to do it, outright ask her. Esk6969 had a good approach in his post, so I'd take that and run with it, or

modify it where you feel is needed. THis little thing between you and her isn't going to go anywhere unless one of

you gets fed up or one of you makes a move. And, I'll bet you the bottle of NPA I just got that it isn't going to

be her.
Well she certainly is doing her best to confuse me, but I'm not showing it at all. Just going

about my business.

Funny you mention adding something more specific to our little short and brief conversations.

Today on the way into the gym I saw her signing some papers and I asked how she was doing followed by asking how her

Friday night was and if she did anything special. She said she didn't have a good night b/c she just stayed home

and slept (by herself LOL).


Come to think about it, NPA with Chikara would help you very much. Put a few

drops of NPA on a wrist and cover it with a few sprays of Chikara. Rub your wrists together, and you are set. This

combo is jampacked with 'mones, and I'm pretty sure that if she took a double take of you with the Chikara on,

she'll take a triple with Chikara AND NPA. Good luck man, and post your results as well as where you want this to

go. Hope I'm of some assistance!
Well I was thinking about NPA. Could I also put on 2 dabs of NPA on my

neck instead, and cover it up with Chikara?

Thanks again for the advice.

Chicago



sigfreed

thats her game, to make you think about her alot, because everytime you think about her over and over, the image of

her becomes bigger and bigger, like advertising and brain washing, then finally controling you brain, she think its

fun fucking with you brain. by the way woman can see right threw you that you want them , even if you dont act like

a puppy. they can feel the were you stand.

my last advice to you is
1) stop thinking about her,
2) ignore the

shit out of her (fuck the smiles and winks)
3) i bet you, if you see this chick after 10 years, she wont look that

good ( compare to a younger girl).
4) everyday she is getting older and fallling apart more.
5) chicks are like

cars, worth lots of money when new, but worth shit when old. bad investment.
6) the fact is chicks need you, more

than you need them. in the long run
7) woman know the truth about them self, that why they shop for a rich guy, and

try to sucker him into marriage. if this arab girl knew, you were a multi-millionare, she would be sucking your

dick, for lunch , breakfest , dinner.

good luck .
Well I think you could very well be right. I'm not

sure if I agree with number four though as she keeps herself very fit and I've found some women looking better in

their mid 30's and 40's as I dated 2 older women before.

Number 7 I totally agree with and she could very well

be that type, but I could be wrong. No offense to any women here but I can't stand the gold diggers.

One

experiment I would love to do if I ever did win the lottery is go to a fancy place with lots of women around who are

well dressed, go there for a week in sneakers, jeans and a T-shirt maybe even a baseball cap. Hit on every woman I

could. Then the following week I clean myself up, put on a 3 piece suit, cufflinks, leather shoes, maybe even a

brief case and hit on every woman there. I'd like to see how many women who rejected me last week, would hit on me

in my 3 piece suit.




What I did do today was I saw one gym buddy there who knows the guy she was talking

to while right beside me. I told him what happened earlier in the week with his other buddy and her while on the

treadmill.

This guy says he would talk to the guy on the treadmill she was conversing with about me to see if he

knows anything that I don't know. That could be the best thing in this case b/c the treadmill guy talks to her

frequently.

Thanks all who replied.

[esk6969]

OH....MY....GOD!!!! This is

frustrating.

Let me get this straight - you've:

- Overhead this chick talking about you (to another GUY,

no less)
- Heard her say "he's hot" in reference to you
- Noticed her gradually move into your personal space

every time you're in the gym
- Seen her intentionally put her ass on display by the cable crunch (yes, it WAS

intentional)
- Said hello and smiled to each other every time you are there
- In spite of the fact that you

AREN'T one of her beta puppy dogs (does she go out of her way to flirt with them?)
- Had her wink at you
- Had

her give you the sexy/shy look (that's a very classic IOI, the way)
- Seen her checking you at all the time
- Had

her look you directly in the eye while checking you out
- Had her tell you she's free on Friday nights (MASSIVE

DLV on her part)

And yet, you are "basically looking for more signs of interest"? WTF?

It's like, if this

chick walked up to you, started looking you in the eye with dilated pupils, nervously fidgeting, twirlring her hair,

stammering over her words, sweating, and said "my, it's rather hot in here", but didn't touch you, you'd

interpret that as "not interested", like she's really commenting on the air conditioning system or something.



Let me make this perfectly clear:

THIS....GIRL....LIKES....YOU.

What more do you want? Oh, right, SHE has

to come up to YOU before you'll talk to her, and you won't touch (kino) her until she touches you. Yet, the OTHER

guys in the gym are acting "beta". Right.


THis little thing between you and her isn't going

to go anywhere unless one of you gets fed up or one of you makes a move. And, I'll bet you the bottle of NPA I just

got that it isn't going to be her.

Ummm.. YEAHH, I could not agree more with that. It's time to make

a move. I mean, for Chrissake, you've now had a WOMAN on this thread tell you she's probably thinking the same

way you are. I completely agree with CulturalBlond's post. One of the best kept secrets in the world, is that

beautiful women are often approached LESS in DHV (demostration of High Value) situations, than other women, due to

the intimidation factor.

Look at this situation objectively: You've already had massive IOI's from

HBgymhottie, you've really done nothing to make a move, and now you're going to talk yourself out of it, because

she hasn't literally thrown herself at you, so you conclude she's not intersted. So rather than ask her out,

where the odds are probably FAR better than 50/50 she'd say yes, instead, you're going to pass up this

opportunity, and only because of something you've constructed in your head, that doesn't even coincide with

reality. And what's even worse, this is a RISK-FREE situation. What I mean by that is, what is going to happen if

she's says "no"? Will you die? Will you lose your gym membership? Will the puppy dogs who fill her water bottle

laugh at you? Will you then become unattractive to all other women? The answers to the above are no, no, no, no,

and no.

You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain here. With due respect, please don't take Chicago's

advice. It's rather obvious from his posts in this thread that he has had problems in the past with women, and is

bitter. Really, not all women are like "used cars" or golddiggers or whatever. You're letting yourself get talked

into quitting, without even having tried in the first place! If you do that, I've got news - the most beta guy in

that gym is YOU. At least the waterboy AFC's (average frustrated chumps) who have no chance still talk to her.

You have her attraction, plus Chikara, plus a mastermind group here willing to help you, and yet that's STILL not

enough. (BTW, the reason I'm being so harsh on you about this, is because I've done similar things myself. And

come to regret it. I'm trying to spare you that.)

Again, as above: Attraction->Rapport->Seduction. You HAVE

attraction. You keep assuming you don't, thus raising her value level above your own - not good. If you approach

her with that attitude, you'll get blown out. And rightly so. ASSUME you already have her attention, because, if

your posts are accurate - you do.

Onto Rapport. Remember, as above, Attraction minus Rapport = LJBF. So, you

have to establish at least minimum rapport before making your move. Find something she either cares about, or

something you have in common, and then talk with her about it in a way designed to make her feel good about herself,

in your presence. Hmmm, if only we could find a common ground in the GYM, hmm... what could it be.....

Oh,

wait, I know... MAYBE you could talk to her about working out! Hmmm, what a concept! This is ridiculously easy to

do. First, find something to compliement her on - anything besides her tits or ass. Maybe her abs. "Hey, I

noticed your abs have gotten a lot more cut. What's your routine?"

This accomplishes several things. It lets

her know: You've been looking. It makes her feel good about herself. It pays her a compliment, but in a very

non-supplicative way ("not omigod, you are so hot, please date me, omigod) LOL...

And it gets her TALKING to

you. Which is what you wanted, right?

HB: Oh, uh, thanks (flustered by your confidence... and chikara :twisted:

) I do xyz crunches, blah blah blah
Sig: Yeah, well, you look great (no pause) I just love workin' out, you know?

Really gets the blood moving. But what I really love is that awesome endorphin rush after a great set, you know?

(no pause), Like, you just get that whole 'king of the world' feeling going on (shameless Titanic anchor, chicks

love that scene in that movie), (no pause), like there's nothing in the world you can't do, and everthing you want

is laid right out before you.... (pause, look away for just a second in "amazement and wonder")
HB: DDB (Doggy

Dinner Bowl look, i.e., eating it up )
Sig: Well, it's been great talking to you, I've gotta get going, got a

meeting/date/whatevre
HB: ummm, ok (not wanting you to leave)
Sig: Hey, listen, you mind if I give you a call

sometime? Maybe we could grab a cup of coffee sometime, and compare routines or something (delivered with cheshire

cat smile - let HER imagine what kind of 'routines' you mean. Workout routines? Something else? :twisted:

)
HB: Yes (VISUALIZE THIS MOMENT BEFOREHAND)
Sig: Cool, what's your #?

One thing I *will* agree with

Chigago on, either make a move, or move on...

[Sigfreed]

esk6969




OH....MY....GOD!!!! This is frustrating.

Let me get this straight - you've:

- Overhead this chick talking

about you (to another GUY, no less)
- Heard her say "he's hot" in reference to you
- Noticed her gradually move

into your personal space every time you're in the gym
- Seen her intentionally put her ass on display by the cable

crunch (yes, it WAS intentional)
- Said hello and smiled to each other every time you are there
- In spite of the

fact that you AREN'T one of her beta puppy dogs (does she go out of her way to flirt with them?)
- Had her wink at

you
- Had her give you the sexy/shy look (that's a very classic IOI, the way)
- Seen her checking you at all the

time
- Had her look you directly in the eye while checking you out
- Had her tell you she's free on Friday nights

(MASSIVE DLV on her part)

And yet, you are "basically looking for more signs of interest"? WTF?

It's like,

if this chick walked up to you, started looking you in the eye with dilated pupils, nervously fidgeting, twirlring

her hair, stammering over her words, sweating, and said "my, it's rather hot in here", but didn't touch you,

you'd interpret that as "not interested", like she's really commenting on the air conditioning system or

something.

Let me make this perfectly clear:

THIS....GIRL....LIKES....YOU.

What more do you want? Oh,

right, SHE has to come up to YOU before you'll talk to her, and you won't touch (kino) her until she touches you.

Yet, the OTHER guys in the gym are acting "beta". Right.I agree and you would think she is interested in me.

The thing is when I try to talk to her or joke around with her or to tease her, sometimes she doesn't reply or

keeps her conversations very brief.

And she doesn't ask me personal details to know who I am. There have been

times I've tried to let her know personal details about me after I've asked her something and she doesn't seem

too interested.

That's where I'm confused.

If you were into someone as much as you think she's into me,

wouldn't you want to know things about the person you're into? That's at least been my personal experience with

women who were interested in me or that I dated.

Unlike other girls I tease and joke around with, most others

respond and tease back. Yet with this one, she doesn't always laugh at jokes that other ppl would. Which I find a

bit strange.


Ummm.. YEAHH, I could not agree more with that. It's time to make a move. I mean, for

Chrissake, you've now had a WOMAN on this thread tell you she's probably thinking the same way you are. I

completely agree with CulturalBlond's post. One of the best kept secrets in the world, is that beautiful women are

often approached LESS in DHV (demostration of High Value) situations, than other women, due to the intimidation

factor. Well as I said the first impression she gave me when I first started training there was that she was

an attention seeking snob (no offense to anyone). And ppl I met that I train there with now told me that she mainly

looks around at me and other ppl just to see who's checking her out.

That leads to other confusion.

And yes

I agree with you and CulturalBlond's post about attractive women being less approached b/c of intimidation, but I

don't always understand that as sometimes I always see hotties being hit on and followed around (not what I will

do).

Basically I guess I'm just worried that I could be just being played with by her for her amusement to try

and make me cave and follow her around. If that's the case and I ask her out, I will look like a fool that she

played me for.

I agree about making a move, and I want to make a move. On Monday the guy I was training with

today will talk to the treadmill guy she was talking to me about and see if he knows anything concerning myself and

her. If he does and it's good, I will probably make a move b/c he knows her and she talks to him a lot.




Look at this situation objectively: You've already had massive IOI's from HBgymhottie, you've really done nothing

to make a move, and now you're going to talk yourself out of it, because she hasn't literally thrown herself at

you, so you conclude she's not intersted. So rather than ask her out, where the odds are probably FAR better than

50/50 she'd say yes, instead, you're going to pass up this opportunity, and only because of something you've

constructed in your head, that doesn't even coincide with reality. And what's even worse, this is a RISK-FREE

situation. What I mean by that is, what is going to happen if she's says "no"? Will you die? Will you lose your gym

membership? Will the puppy dogs who fill her water bottle laugh at you? Will you then become unattractive to all

other women? The answers to the above are no, no, no, no, and no.Well you basically stated my concerns, but

of course I won't lose my gym membership. I guess a part of me is also concerned if she says anything to any of the

other women in the gym if I've totally taken things the wrong way.


You have nothing to lose, and

everything to gain here. With due respect, please don't take Chicago's advice. It's rather obvious from his posts

in this thread that he has had problems in the past with women, and is bitter. Really, not all women are like "used

cars" or golddiggers or whatever. You're letting yourself get talked into quitting, without even having tried in

the first place! If you do that, I've got news - the most beta guy in that gym is YOU. At least the waterboy AFC's

(average frustrated chumps) who have no chance still talk to her. You have her attraction, plus Chikara, plus a

mastermind group here willing to help you, and yet that's STILL not enough. (BTW, the reason I'm being so harsh on

you about this, is because I've done similar things myself. And come to regret it. I'm trying to spare you that.)

I have had some bad experiences with women like all of us and I've moved on and know which ones to pick

from.

I agree with you about being harsh and totally understand b/c I'm realizing that I'm missing out on

experiences in my life that I'd like to look back on and remember.


Again, as above:

Attraction->Rapport->Seduction. You HAVE attraction. You keep assuming you don't, thus raising her value level

above your own - not good. If you approach her with that attitude, you'll get blown out. And rightly so. ASSUME you

already have her attention, because, if your posts are accurate - you do.

Onto Rapport. Remember, as above,

Attraction minus Rapport = LJBF. So, you have to establish at least minimum rapport before making your move. Find

something she either cares about, or something you have in common, and then talk with her about it in a way designed

to make her feel good about herself, in your presence. Hmmm, if only we could find a common ground in the GYM,

hmm... what could it be..... I agree with the above statements. Speaking of finding something she cares

about, well a few weeks ago I asked her about her gym photo shoot I saw being done in the gym about a month ago and

she was interested in that. She trains 6 days a week, so I know she cares about her body and the gym. But wouldn't

she get bored talking about that? I'm sure everyone else talks to her about it.


Oh, wait, I know...

MAYBE you could talk to her about working out! Hmmm, what a concept! This is ridiculously easy to do. First, find

something to compliement her on - anything besides her tits or ass. Maybe her abs. "Hey, I noticed your abs have

gotten a lot more cut. What's your routine?"

This accomplishes several things. It lets her know: You've been

looking. It makes her feel good about herself. It pays her a compliment, but in a very non-supplicative way ("not

omigod, you are so hot, please date me, omigod) LOL...

And it gets her TALKING to you. Which is what you wanted,

right? When I see her on Monday when the opportunity rises to talk to her I will ask her if she has any

hobbies and/or what she normally does on the weekend outside the gym and work and elaborate on that which is

something I've been trying to do but haven't had the opportunity as she was training a client who was a friend of

hers.



HB: Oh, uh, thanks (flustered by your confidence... and chikara :twisted: ) I do xyz crunches,

blah blah blah
Sig: Yeah, well, you look great (no pause) I just love workin' out, you know? Really gets the blood

moving. But what I really love is that awesome endorphin rush after a great set, you know? (no pause), Like, you

just get that whole 'king of the world' feeling going on (shameless Titanic anchor, chicks love that scene in that

movie), (no pause), like there's nothing in the world you can't do, and everthing you want is laid right out

before you.... (pause, look away for just a second in "amazement and wonder")
HB: DDB (Doggy Dinner Bowl look,

i.e., eating it up )
Sig: Well, it's been great talking to you, I've gotta get going, got a

meeting/date/whatevre
HB: ummm, ok (not wanting you to leave)
Sig: Hey, listen, you mind if I give you a call

sometime? Maybe we could grab a cup of coffee sometime, and compare routines or something (delivered with cheshire

cat smile - let HER imagine what kind of 'routines' you mean. Workout routines? Something else? :twisted: )
HB:

Yes (VISUALIZE THIS MOMENT BEFOREHAND)
Sig: Cool, what's your #?

One thing I *will* agree with Chigago on,

either make a move, or move on... This is exactly the type of conversation I've been wanting and playing

out.

The thing is, one of the details that gave me the impression that she could be an attention seeking snob is

that one day a couple of months ago when she was on the treadmill right next to me, she was talking to another

guy.

From the conversation I heard they were confirming plans for dinner and he asked "how will I get in touch

with you? Could I have your number?" and she replied to him "around here nobody has my number with a smirk on her

face as she said it".

So this is why I'm a bit nervous to ask for her number. She lives at home she told me so

if she does give me her number it will probably be her cell phone number which is fine.


Here is another

question I have, could the reason she doesn't talk to me or ask personal details about me b/c she may just want to

have sex with me and doesn't care to really know me? She does not seem like this type, but I am having a tough time

figuring out who she really is.


But I'm going to wait until Monday to see if the treadmill guy she talked

to about me and said I'm hot to before she winked at me knows anything about the situation between myself and

her.

Then I will decide, if he tells me she's interested in me and been waiting for me to make a move than I

will proceed. If he says other wise like she is just trying to screw with my head than I will be undecided.

[Bigman808]

AHHHHHH! COME ON, MAN! Esk6969

laid it out more than perfectly for you. I couldn't have done a better job, except for one thing. I'd have put a

little endnote in the post, saying something along the lines of: 'GET YOUR ASS MOVING!' This situation is actually

kind of simple, if you think about it. Okay, screw that. It's extremely simple. We have Sig here, who wants to ...

this girl in the gym, and the girl is acting mysterious, yada yada yada. Now, let's look at the BIG picture here:

This girl LIKES you. Enough said? Yes.

Okay, now that you know what to do, and how you can

do it, what on earth are you going to do? YOU ARE GOING TO GET OFF YOUR LITTLE COMPUTER CHAIR, AND START TALKING TO

THIS WOMAN! Sorry for being harsh, but you need to get into action, man! The good things in life don't come to you.

You go out and get them. But, in order to do that, you have to realize that logic isn't always involved in these

situations. Do what esk suggested: Talk to her, find a common ground, (the gym is picture perfect) and get her

number. Forget talking to that guy on the treadmill. Find out for yourself whether or not she's up for you. You

cannot depend on other people to tell you things you should already know. Good luck man, and remember: Don't wait

for life's positives to pass you by; get your ass up and go get them.

[MOBLEYC57]

T'was much simpler when you

could club'em side the head, drag'em back to ya cave/bush, and do'em, yes? :blink:
Hit her with a dead fish

:trout:, and get on with it! :wub:

[Sigfreed]

Bigman808





AHHHHHH! COME ON, MAN! Esk6969 laid it out more than perfectly for you. I couldn't have done a better job, except

for one thing. I'd have put a little endnote in the post, saying something along the lines of: 'GET YOUR ASS

MOVING!' This situation is actually kind of simple, if you think about it. Okay, screw that. It's extremely

simple. We have Sig here, who wants to ... this girl in the gym, and the girl is acting mysterious, yada yada yada.

Now, let's look at the BIG picture here: This girl LIKES you. Enough said? Yes.

Okay, now

that you know what to do, and how you can do it, what on earth are you going to do? YOU ARE GOING TO GET OFF YOUR

LITTLE COMPUTER CHAIR, AND START TALKING TO THIS WOMAN! Sorry for being harsh, but you need to get into action, man!

The good things in life don't come to you. You go out and get them. But, in order to do that, you have to realize

that logic isn't always involved in these situations. Do what esk suggested: Talk to her, find a common ground,

(the gym is picture perfect) and get her number. Forget talking to that guy on the treadmill. Find out for yourself

whether or not she's up for you. You cannot depend on other people to tell you things you should already know. Good

luck man, and remember: Don't wait for life's positives to pass you by; get your ass up and go get them.


I totally agree with you guys.

Just the thing is, now this is the confusing part. As I said sometimes she is a

bit cold with me when I talk to her. Now if she is interested in me in fact, wouldn't she be a little more

reseptive to my invitation for my conversation?
Sometimes when I try to find things out about her and her

interests, she makes it very difficult. You'd think being on the treadmill right next to me, she'd want to talk.



But again when I try, she doesn't always respond well or she's very brief. Sometimes if I ask her if she

likes something she will either just nod her head or just say yes or no and go on with her treadmill instead of

elaborating on it.

That's where I'm just confused. Most other women I've spoken to would be interested in a

conversation even and they'd ask me questions. This is the level of interaction that I'm having trouble reaching

with her b/c of how she is with me.

I know for a fact that if my gym buddy talks to the treadmill guy and says

I'm interested and wanted to know her status, it will get back to her so she will know that I'm interested.



Although I don't follow her around like a puppy dog, I still have shown my interest like "ATTEMPTING" to start up

a conversation with her. This is the problem I'm currently having. Getting her to be more reseptive when speaking

to her. I know she isn't shy.

For me to get the nerve to ask out a woman, especially a very attractive woman I

usually need to have a few pleasant conversations with her where we exchange personal information so we learn more

about eachother.

Once this level of interaction is reached, I don't usually have a problem asking out an

attractive woman. But if I don't get to that level, I won't make my move as there's not much common ground.




Do you think it's possible she just wants to have sex with me and she doesn't care to know who I am? Is that

why she's not interested in personal conversation outside the gym/work?

I won't be seeing her until Monday

anyway as she doesn't train on Sunday and either do I. Anyway I'm going out with a couple of buddies so I'm about

to apply some Chikara before I leave.

MOBLEYC57

I hope you're joking as that's not my style. I like

someone to be concious that I'm with.

[MOBLEYC57]

Bigman808




I totally agree with you guys.

Just the thing is, now this is the confusing part. As I said sometimes she is a

bit cold with me when I talk to her. Now if she is interested in me in fact, wouldn't she be a little more

reseptive to my invitation for my conversation?
Sometimes when I try to find things out about her and her

interests, she makes it very difficult. You'd think being on the treadmill right next to me, she'd want to talk.



But again when I try, she doesn't always respond well or she's very brief. Sometimes if I ask her if she

likes something she will either just nod her head or just say yes or no and go on with her treadmill instead of

elaborating on it.

That's where I'm just confused. Most other women I've spoken to would be interested in a

conversation even and they'd ask me questions. This is the level of interaction that I'm having trouble reaching

with her b/c of how she is with me.

I know for a fact that if my gym buddy talks to the treadmill guy and says

I'm interested and wanted to know her status, it will get back to her so she will know that I'm interested.



Although I don't follow her around like a puppy dog, I still have shown my interest like "ATTEMPTING" to start up

a conversation with her. This is the problem I'm currently having. Getting her to be more reseptive when speaking

to her. I know she isn't shy.

For me to get the nerve to ask out a woman, especially a very attractive woman I

usually need to have a few pleasant conversations with her where we exchange personal information so we learn more

about eachother.

Once this level of interaction is reached, I don't usually have a problem asking out an

attractive woman. But if I don't get to that level, I won't make my move as there's not much common ground.




Do you think it's possible she just wants to have sex with me and she doesn't care to know who I am? Is that why

she's not interested in personal conversation outside the gym/work?

I won't be seeing her until Monday anyway

as she doesn't train on Sunday and either do I. Anyway I'm going out with a couple of buddies so I'm about to

apply some Chikara before I leave.

MOBLEYC57

I hope you're joking as that's not my style. I like someone

to be concious that I'm with.
One thing for sure, you're getting a brief lesson on one of the many sides

of a woman. You'll stay confused as long as you try to figure out why.

And yes, I'm kidding. That's

nobody's style, except ... the caveman. Long ago, that's how they did it ... no games or trying to figure women

out. Overpower'em, and hope they liked it enough to remain yours. :box:

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

She? :blink:

[esk6969]

esk6969



Basically I guess I'm just worried that I could be just being played with by her for her amusement to try and

make me cave and follow her around. If that's the case and I ask her out, I will look like a fool that she played

me for.

I agree about making a move, and I want to make a move. On Monday the guy I was training with today will

talk to the treadmill guy she was talking to me about and see if he knows anything concerning myself and her. If he

does and it's good, I will probably make a move b/c he knows her and she talks to him a lot.

Well you basically

stated my concerns, but of course I won't lose my gym membership. I guess a part of me is also concerned if she

says anything to any of the other women in the gym if I've totally taken things the wrong way..
Totally

incorrect thinking, on all three points.

First, on #1, who said anything about following her around? Sounds

like SHE'S been following YOU around. Wait until she places herself in your vicinity, just as she has been doing.



As to "being played for a fool", you are making a classic mistake - assuming she has a higher value than you do

- assuming she is the "prize". Don't YOU have anything to offer here? Wouldn't this be a mutually beneficial

relationship? If you ask for her #, and she turns you down, who's loss is that really? It's HERS, not yours.

You made an effort to make a connection - you offered her something of value - she turned it down. Therefore, you

are still carrying around that value - and can share it with someone else. Meanwhile, she is in the gym six days a

week - and home on Friday night.

On #2 - not only should you not make your decision dependent on what treadmill

guy says, you should assume he is lying. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to just say, "yeah, she said she's

not that into you", so he can clear you out to have a shot for himself? That's what I would do. :smite: It's

called an AMOG (Alpha Male Other Guy) tactic. The male equivalent of a cockblock. Happens all the time. Basing

your decision on this is not a good strategy.

On #3: You should HOPE she says something to the other women in

the gym. It's called "social proof", and raises your value exponentially. Other women will then know you are a)

single, b) assertive, and c) looking. Of course, women DO hate a man who sees something he wants, and has the guts

to go after that. They find that VERY unattractive, and yes, I am being sarcastic.




The

thing is, one of the details that gave me the impression that she could be an attention seeking snob is that one day

a couple of months ago when she was on the treadmill right next to me, she was talking to another guy.

From the

conversation I heard they were confirming plans for dinner and he asked "how will I get in touch with you? Could I

have your number?" and she replied to him "around here nobody has my number with a smirk on her face as she said

it".

So this is why I'm a bit nervous to ask for her number. She lives at home she told me so if she does give

me her number it will probably be her cell phone number which is fine...
Yeah, that's a little weird, but

so what? Chicks are weird. Trying to figure them out is a waste of time. Don't worry about what they are

thinking, only what they respond to.

Besides, it's irrelevant WHAT number she gives you, or even if she

does. The only reason to get her number is to set up a date. If she'd rather just set up a date right then and

there, that's actually better. Of course, in modern times nowadays with advances like telephones and electric

lighting, most people usually give a phone number so they can call to either confirm or cancel, if necessary.





Here is another question I have, could the reason she doesn't talk to me or ask personal

details about me b/c she may just want to have sex with me and doesn't care to really know me? .
Don't

know. Could be. It's not an unreasonable hypothesis. She's a personal trainer who's in the gym six days a

week. Sounds busy. Maybe she just wants a guy on the side to satisfy her needs, no strings attached. That would

be terrible, right? Of course, there's only one way to find out....

[tounge]

Nice post 6969. Sadly for this

dude, I see nothing but a bust here. Number One, he seems way to obsessed with this chick. Nothing good ever comes

out of that. Number Two, like you said, he seems to put a higher value on her than himself. Even if he were to get

her to go out once, this relationship will last about as long as a teenager looking at his first Playboy magazine.

[chicago]

maybe she is using pheromones ,

thats why eveyone at the gym likes her lol
________
MARYJANE (http://maryjanes.info/)

[Sigfreed]

MobleyC57


One thing

for sure, you're getting a brief lesson on one of the many sides of a woman. You'll stay confused as long as you

try to figure out why.

And yes, I'm kidding. That's nobody's style, except ... the caveman. Long ago,

that's how they did it ... no games or trying to figure women out. Overpower'em, and hope they liked it enough to

remain yours.
I can't argue with that. I am still confused in trying to figure this out. IMO head games

are a waste of time as life is too short for them.

esk6969


Totally incorrect thinking, on all three

points.

First, on #1, who said anything about following her around? Sounds like SHE'S been following YOU

around. Wait until she places herself in your vicinity, just as she has been doing.

As to "being played for a

fool", you are making a classic mistake - assuming she has a higher value than you do - assuming she is the "prize".

Don't YOU have anything to offer here? Wouldn't this be a mutually beneficial relationship? If you ask for her #,

and she turns you down, who's loss is that really? It's HERS, not yours. You made an effort to make a connection -

you offered her something of value - she turned it down. Therefore, you are still carrying around that value - and

can share it with someone else. Meanwhile, she is in the gym six days a week - and home on Friday night.


Well I'm not really letting myself think that she is "the prize". I just don't want to make a fool of myself

that's all. That's why I mostly go about my business and talk to her when she's nearby. I agree it's her loss if

I get turned down for asking for her number. At least the effort was made. Yes six days a week in the gym and home

on Friday night or so she says. Personally that's too much, I only go four days a week as I have a life outside the

gym/work/school.


On #2 - not only should you not make your decision dependent on what treadmill guy says,

you should assume he is lying. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to just say, "yeah, she said she's not that

into you", so he can clear you out to have a shot for himself? That's what I would do. :smite: It's called an AMOG

(Alpha Male Other Guy) tactic. The male equivalent of a cockblock. Happens all the time. Basing your decision on

this is not a good strategy.
Well I'm not sure I have to worry about him making a move b/c he trains

with this sexy woman and he lives with her as well. Usually ppl talk to him, he doesn't go out of his way to talk

to them. But in normal circumstances if he was single and not training with a woman, I would be concerned in what he

says.


On #3: You should HOPE she says something to the other women in the gym. It's called "social

proof", and raises your value exponentially. Other women will then know you are a) single, b) assertive, and c)

looking. Of course, women DO hate a man who sees something he wants, and has the guts to go after that. They find

that VERY unattractive, and yes, I am being sarcastic.
I totally agree with this as I've experienced

this before. I start flirting or dating a woman and suddenly the other women at work, school, or in the gym know

everything about me.

I will be seeing her tomorrow evening and I will try to get her to have a meaningful

conversation with her. I want to find out more about her.


Yeah, that's a little weird, but so what?

Chicks are weird. Trying to figure them out is a waste of time. Don't worry about what they are thinking, only what

they respond to.

Besides, it's irrelevant WHAT number she gives you, or even if she does. The only reason to

get her number is to set up a date. If she'd rather just set up a date right then and there, that's actually

better. Of course, in modern times nowadays with advances like telephones and electric lighting, most people usually

give a phone number so they can call to either confirm or cancel, if necessary.
All agreed, but I still

think it's weird that she "says" she doesn't give out her number to anyone from the gym. That just makes me

nervous.


Don't know. Could be. It's not an unreasonable hypothesis. She's a personal trainer who's

in the gym six days a week. Sounds busy. Maybe she just wants a guy on the side to satisfy her needs, no strings

attached. That would be terrible, right? Of course, there's only one way to find out....
Well that is

another theory and I'm not trying to sound sexist or insensitive as the woman I'm hanging out with currenty,

that's all she wants. As for this young woman she works for a phone company during the day and has about 4 clients

a week to train at the gym so maybe she just wants some fun. And forgive me ladies as I'm not one to look at women

solely as sex objects, but the way my last relationship went and how I was taken advantage of, maybe it's what I

need.

tongue



Nice post 6969. Sadly for this dude, I see nothing but a bust here. Number One, he

seems way to obsessed with this chick. Nothing good ever comes out of that. Number Two, like you said, he seems to

put a higher value on her than himself. Even if he were to get her to go out once, this relationship will last about

as long as a teenager looking at his first Playboy magazine
There doesn't have to be anything "sadly"

for me. But it could be just BS as that's what some of my buddies think while a couple of them could see a

possibility but they think it's weird she doesn't ask me things about myself.

I'm not obsessed with this

woman. I'm just trying to figure her out. It's just confusing as sh!t trying to figure out her game if she's

playing one. Personally I could careless if I don't see her again, but at the same time if there is an opportunity,

I don't want to miss out.

And I am most certainly not putting a higher value on her than myself. If I was, I'd

be following her around like a puppy dog like the other men in the gym. And you are probably right if we did hook

up, it probably wouldn't last long which is okay with me.

Chicago


maybe she is using pheromones ,

thats why eveyone at the gym likes her lol Could be LOL

[Gegogi]

This is an extremely funny

thread. Plus, the armchair analysis make for an entertaining read. Unfortunately, some of you guys take yourselves

way too seriously and need to lighten up. Nothing here is that important nor difficult in the main scheme of things.

Plus, judging from the length of many of the responses, some obviously have too much time on their hands...

[chicago]

Gegogi (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/member.php?u=1176) your my hero, when i grow up, i want to be just

like you.
________
Gang Bang Girl (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/593/girl/videos/1)

[tounge]

This is an extremely

funny thread. Plus, the armchair analysis make for an entertaining read. Unfortunately, some of you guys take

yourselves way too seriously and need to lighten up. Nothing here is that important nor difficult in the main scheme

of things. Plus, judging from the length of many of the responses, some obviously have too much time on their

hands...



Sounds like something you should direct to the original poster, who seems to be in

denial. For a guy who says he is not obsessed with one women, he sure as hell wasted enough time on here writing

about it.

[Sigfreed]

tounge


Sounds like

something you should direct to the original poster, who seems to be in denial. For a guy who says he is not obsessed

with one women, he sure as hell wasted enough time on here writing about it.
As I said before I am not

obsessed. I'm just trying to figure her out. Three of my friends think she's full of it, while three of them think

she could be into me. Just looking for opinions. If there's an opportunity I don't want to miss it. As for

"wasting time" on it as you put it, it's not wasting time, it's trying to get a proper analogy of the situation. I

mostly come online when I don't have work, or friends or a date and right now I'm relaxing at home today so

perfect time.

[MOBLEYC57]

For a guy who says

he is not obsessed with one women, he sure as hell wasted enough time on here writing about it.My thought

and earlier point exactly, but some people don't see what they don't want to see.:run:

The learning process

... we've all been there, yes? :blink:

[tounge]

The

learning process ... we've all been there, yes? :blink:




Indeed we have. As they say,

"Too bad Youth is wasted on the young"

[Holmes]

Damn straight.

How does

this girl feel about bondage?

[MOBLEYC57]

Damn straight.



How does this girl feel about bondage?He'll never know unless he retrieves his nuts.

Fortune cookie

say, "Him who give woman both of his nuts, have nothing left to offer her, except paycheck."

No flaming ... but

please, stop worrrrrying, and JUST DO IT! I promise you, if you get rejected ... when the sun comes up

tomorrow, your eyes will open, and you'll be just fine. Honest! :angel: :thumbsup: :angel:

Hang in there, Sig.

T'will be otay. :thumbsup:

[Sigfreed]

Mobleyc57


No

flaming ... but please, stop worrrrrying, and JUST DO IT! I promise you, if you get rejected ... when

the sun comes up tomorrow, your eyes will open, and you'll be just fine. Honest!
Before I ask her out,

I'd like to be at a level in which we can share a meaningful conversation. For me I can't ask a woman out w/o

having a couple of meaningful conversations where we exchange personal details about one another.

[MOBLEYC57]

Mobleyc57




Before I ask her out, I'd like to be at a level in which we can share a meaningful conversation. For me I can't

ask a woman out w/o having a couple of meaningful conversations where we exchange personal details about one

another.It's your hand, play it as it pleases you, but if you don't play the lottery, you'll never win

it. A harmless meeting for coffee, ice cream, tea, milk, water, fruit juice, etc. etc. produces all kinds of likely

and meaningful conversations, if that's what blows your hair back. :box:

Maybe you should just ask her if

she's single, and if she isn't, do yourself a favor, and move on, yes? :blink:

Hope it ends the way you want

it to. :thumbsup:

P.S. I don't think you'll be able to get at that level in the gym, and from what it sounds

like, meaningful conversation would cut in on her workout time, which sounds like she'd get pissed. So.....

[Sigfreed]

mobleyc57


It's your

hand, play it as it pleases you, but if you don't play the lottery, you'll never win it. A harmless meeting for

coffee, ice cream, tea, milk, water, fruit juice, etc. etc. produces all kinds of likely and meaningful

conversations, if that's what blows your hair back. :box:

Maybe you should just ask her if she's single, and

if she isn't, do yourself a favor, and move on, yes? :blink:

Hope it ends the way you want it to.

:thumbsup:

P.S. I don't think you'll be able to get at that level in the gym, and from what it sounds like,

meaningful conversation would cut in on her workout time, which sounds like she'd get pissed. So.....


You are right. I will see what happens tomorrow and what I can find out about her.

Thanks.

[MOBLEYC57]

mobleyc57




You are right. I will see what happens tomorrow and what I can find out about her.

Thanks.Take a deep

breath, count slowly to 10, say to yourself, "she wants me MORE than I want her," and find out from

her, not them. :thumbsup: After that, if she still acts funny, I'd get me a different gym time, 'cause

FLAKINESS deserves no attention. :rasp: There is the chance that you may find that you don't even like her

... looks and character doesn't always match. Once the sex dies, she'd better have a damn good personality for me

to want to hang around, if you get me meaning. :blink:

Stay the course!:run:

[wood elf]

Ask her out. You can lose

nothing even were she to tell you no. If you fail to act and she is truly giving you signals she soon will decide

you are not interested or are to wimpy to do anything. You will lose then because you will never know for certain

[Holmes]

Sigfreed,

Where is she

from?

I once had "dealings" with a girl from Bahrain. She acted like she owned the world.

At any rate,

listen to elf.

[MOBLEYC57]

At any rate,

listen to elf.I vould say dat, too, vut you can see he's afraid, so, vouldn't offering coffee, tea, be a

better way of asking her out without the time pressure? To me, asking her out is a bit more pesonal ... dinner,

movie, drinks (drinks (alcohol) could trigger something negative, yes? "?"), which could trigger something negative

inside her to say "no," and the time vould be long. Coffee, tea can either end in 15 minutes or hours, depending. I

vonce had a date for coffee about 3 years ago, and I'm soooooooo glad it wasn't a dinner date, 'cause there was

NO attraction at all after meeting her, and I was ready to get out of there! :rant: You feeling me on vhat I'm

trying to say here? :blink:

[Sigfreed]

MobleyC57


Take a

deep breath, count slowly to 10, say to yourself, "she wants me MORE than I want her," and find out

from her, not them. :thumbsup: After that, if she still acts funny, I'd get me a different gym time, 'cause

FLAKINESS deserves no attention. :rasp: There is the chance that you may find that you don't even like her

... looks and character doesn't always match. Once the sex dies, she'd better have a damn good personality for me

to want to hang around, if you get me meaning. :blink:

Stay the course!:run:
You are right about

that. I personally think if we were to spend any time together it would probably not last long. But that's okay at

least we tried and enjoyed eachothers company.

wood elf


Ask her out. You can lose nothing even were

she to tell you no. If you fail to act and she is truly giving you signals she soon will decide you are not

interested or are to wimpy to do anything. You will lose then because you will never know for certain
You

are right, soooo right. It's her mixed signals that confuse the sh!t out of me though that's the real mind

boggler. Put it this way giving what she's already done to me, had she gone out of her way to have a few meaningful

conversations here and there instead of either ignoring me when I talk to her or keeping the conversation sooo brief

I can't find anything out about her I would have asked her out a long time ago no doubt.

If she was more

receptive to my efforts to start a meaningful conversation with her I would've asked her out already. One of you

mentioned that I won't be able to get very far in the gym b/c she seems to get annoyed with ppl talking to her

while training.

See this is the funny thing. I understand this when I'm training. But with her she has about 5

people she goes out of her way to interact with and have a meaningful conversation with despite being in the middle

of her workout.

But with me, she just does little things and is not very receptive to my conversation efforts as

I said.

This is what's mind boggling.

But I will do my best to get a few minutes with her if she allows it.

She might not even give me enough time to ask her out. That's the problem, in that case this is where she should

try to talk to me a little bit.

If she wants me to ask her out, than why doesn't she give me the time or chance

to do so? This is why apart of me thinks she is screwing with my brain to get attention.


Holmes




Sigfreed,

Where is she from?

I once had "dealings" with a girl from Bahrain. She acted like she owned the

world.

At any rate, listen to elf.
I'm not sure exactly where she's from, LOL she hasn't even given

me the chance to ask her. That's how damn brief the conversations with her are.

Wood Elf is right, and I will

just have to play it out.

As I said if I was able to have a few meaningful conversations with her to know her a

bit and for her to know me, I would've asked her out a long time ago as that's how it usually has gone down with

me and women prior to dating.

This is why I say this situation isn't normal. I know she is not a shy woman with

all the men she has talking to her. But could it be possible she's to shy to talk to me for some reason? Could she

be shy with me and not others?

That wouldn't make sense would it?

But this week I am going to do my best to

get an opportunity to ask her out.

[MOBLEYC57]

It's her

mixed signals that confuse the sh!t out of me though that's the real mind boggler. Put it this way giving

what she's already done to me, had she gone out of her way to have a few meaningful conversations

here and there instead of either ignoring me when I talk to her or keeping the conversation sooo brief

I can't find anything out about her I would have asked her out a long time ago no doubt.
Now you have

a real live understanding/experience/view as to what has you attracted to her. From the woman's side of the fence,

this is what a lot of them call treating someone like schitt/being an ahole, but actually, she's not! Pay

attention, you're learning first hand at the what/how attraction works for lots of people! :thumbsup:



Before I piss someone off, I'll stop there.:run:


:wub: Why can't we all just get along!? :wub:

[Bigman808]

This isn't really going to go

anywhere unless you do something, Sig. Get your ass in gear and make a move. As I'm up for a good laugh, please

keep us posted on what happens.

[a.k.a.]

Folks,
All your advice and

criticisms are based on the assumption that Sigfreed wants to date this girl.


Sigfreed,
I know what

you want and it’s obvious that Chikara is too subtle for you at this time. Save it for another day. It might come in

handy.
What you’re looking for right now can only be accomplished with straight Androstenone. No

chaser.
My advice is Rogue Male. Two to three dabs. No combo. No cover. Once a day. Two weeks.
I

know nobody talks about it. It’s not new. It doesn’t have any secret ingredients. And blah blah blah.


Forget about all that. Rogue Male will have heads turning, eyes focused, ears perked and the only time you’ll hear

the word “nice” will be in reference to some part of your anatomy.
(And, if I’m reading you correctly, right

about now you’re probably thinking, “Hmmm... If androstenone is so good, maybe NPA will be better.” I’ve already

considered that possibility, and I doubt it. But you like to do things your way and it doesn’t sound like you’re

hurting for money so... Suit yourself. Just remember my advice if things don't turn out like you expected.)



Good luck

[esk6969]

Well I'm

not sure I have to worry about him making a move b/c he trains with this sexy woman and he lives with her as well.


Yeah, I used to live with a pretty hot female roomate who I also worked out with sometimes. Guys in the

gym were always after her, and always discounted me because I was her roomate. Plus, I never interfered with their

pickup attempts, I wanted to give her her space, and make sure she knew I wasn't crowding her, nor insecure by her

flirting with other guys.

She's my wife now. :rofl:

[Sigfreed]

Mobleyc57


Now you

have a real live understanding/experience/view as to what has you attracted to her. From the woman's side of the

fence, this is what a lot of them call treating someone like schitt/being an ahole, but actually, she's not! Pay

attention, you're learning first hand at the what/how attraction works for lots of people! :thumbsup:



Before I piss someone off, I'll stop there.:run: Well I'm learning someting new. This type of situation

and experience with this young woman I've never experienced with anyone else I've dated or had sex with.

This

is a very first for me. Most women I've dated and had sex with started out doing what this gym hottie does to get

my attention. They would check me out from across the room, look into my eyes. Once they get my attention a few

times I would say hello and smile and she would in return or there have been times that the woman has said hello and

smiled first.

Then we'd find a way to be close to eachother being in the same vicinity of the gym or work or

wherever we are. We'd give eachother winks and so on just as this particular gym hottie has done.

Now here's

the real kicker, once we've managed to be close to eachother maybe with no conversation, the 2 of us actually would

go out of our way to talk to eachother to find out about one another.

Then each of us would try to find a way to

touch one another and come in physical contact whether it's brushing up by "accident", or touching her back, her

putting her hands on my hands or touching my arm. Even getting to the point of hugging and a kiss on the cheek.



Once this is established I would then proceed to ask them out for a drink or dinner. I've even been surprised to

have the lady beat me to it and ask me out. Sometimes I was in a situation where each of us asked eachother out at

exactly the same time lol :D

This is how all of my dating and sexual encounters with women have gone.
Yes I

have dated women who played hard to get.

But they wouldn't drag it on much longer than 3-6 weeks depending on

how hard the woman is playing. not 3-4 months as with this particular gym hottie.

That's the confusing part.

What I've described above are normal interactions between a man and woman who are into eachother.


What I am

currently experiencing with this gym woman is very new.

At first I thought maybe she didn't want to talk too

much b/c it distracted her from her training which I understand as I am the same way at times.

But when I see

her go out of her way to talk to other people like the treadmill guy and a couple of her girlfriends and a couple of

other guys than I see that it's not b/c of not wanting to be distracted and I have no idea what her reasoning is

for not talking that much. As I said I over heard the treadmill guy was arguing with her trying to get her to talk

to him instead of asking him about me b/c she knows I talk to him to.

This is why it's so confusing as I've

never experienced this with a woman. I think this will be a good learning experience especially if I get to take her

out on some dates or have sex with her.

Bigman808


This isn't really going to go anywhere unless you

do something, Sig. Get your ass in gear and make a move. As I'm up for a good laugh, please keep us posted on what

happens. I totally agree with you and everyone else who's said this. As I said above, this particular

experience is new regarding the way she acts with me.
I just need to have a 2 or 3 meaningful conversations with

her prior to asking her out.

a.k.a



Folks,
All your advice and criticisms are based on the

assumption that Sigfreed wants to date this girl.


Sigfreed,
I know what you want and it’s obvious that

Chikara is too subtle for you at this time. Save it for another day. It might come in handy.
What you’re looking

for right now can only be accomplished with straight Androstenone. No chaser.
My advice is Rogue Male. Two to three

dabs. No combo. No cover. Once a day. Two weeks.
I know nobody talks about it. It’s not new. It doesn’t have any

secret ingredients. And blah blah blah.
Forget about all that. Rogue Male will have heads turning, eyes focused,

ears perked and the only time you’ll hear the word “nice” will be in reference to some part of your anatomy.
(And,

if I’m reading you correctly, right about now you’re probably thinking, “Hmmm... If androstenone is so good, maybe

NPA will be better.” I’ve already considered that possibility, and I doubt it. But you like to do things your way

and it doesn’t sound like you’re hurting for money so... Suit yourself. Just remember my advice if things don't

turn out like you expected.)

Good luck So you think Rogue Male would be better than NPA? I was actually

thinking of purchasing NPA. What would suit me better do you think?

Chikara does have straight androstenone in

it, or is the amount less than the Rogue Male? Yet it has the combination of other mones which should make it more

powerful no?

Well as for money, I'm not exactly hurting, but I am on a budget returning to school next week

for a year. But I have spending money here and there. Considering I'm single, I have a little extra money for

myself.

So I am wondering between Rogue Male or NPA?

esk6969


Yeah, I used to live with a pretty

hot female roomate who I also worked out with sometimes. Guys in the gym were always after her, and always

discounted me because I was her roomate. Plus, I never interfered with their pickup attempts, I wanted to give her

her space, and make sure she knew I wasn't crowding her, nor insecure by her flirting with other guys.

She's

my wife now. Well the treadmill guy and the woman he sometimes comes with and lives with, they are getting

married soon and buying a house soon. So I don't have to worry about him trying to pick up on this gym woman.

I

was also wondering about showers and dosages. If we had some mones on in my case Chikara at the beginning of the day

how long would it last? If I go to the gym at 5pm should I put another spray or 2 on before the gym?
And if we

shower after the gym will the mones be gone? If I am planning on going out in the evening after my gym shower is it

safe to re-apply a couple of squirts?

I also have the same question regarding sleep. If we put some on before

going out at night, will the mones (my case Chikara) be gone by the next morning and be safe to put more on in the

morning? Thanks.

Thanks again all.

[a.k.a.]

Well as for money,

I'm not exactly hurting, but I am on a budget returning to school next week for a year. But I have spending money

here and there. Considering I'm single, I have a little extra money for myself.


Since you’re

a beginner, pheromones should come out of your entertainment fund.
If it’s a question of pheromones vs. getting

out more, I recommend getting out more. (The pheromones will still be here next month.) If it’s a question of

pheromones vs. renting videos, buying cd’s, or other homebody pursuits, I’d go for the pheromones. (The library is

full of homebody pursuits and they’re all free.)

[Sigfreed]

a.k.a


Since you’re a

beginner, pheromones should come out of your entertainment fund.
If it’s a question of pheromones vs. getting out

more, I recommend getting out more. (The pheromones will still be here next month.) If it’s a question of pheromones

vs. renting videos, buying cd’s, or other homebody pursuits, I’d go for the pheromones. (The library is full of

homebody pursuits and they’re all free.)
Well my current goal is to meet more women so I have a choice of

he I'd like to become my next girlfriend. I want the woman that matches me and meshes with me the most. Both

personality (first, very important to me) and then looks (also important but personality first).

I've turned

down hotties before b/c I didn't like their personality IE snob, conceited and so on.

So I don't spend much

cash on BS. I have a dvd burner now as I used to buy a lot of DVD's which I haven't done in sometime despite not

even owning a burner up until a few weeks ago.

Since I'm single I don't spend much cash now except if I go out

for dinner and a club with some friends. I go for dinner more than clubbing.

See after everything is paid for, I

usually have about $60-$80 of spending money by the end of the week. So if I don't spend it, it goes to the bank. I

guess spending $50 one week on another mone to help me out wouldn't hurt me.

So I'm recommended NPA with

Chikara, what would you say AKA?

[Sigfreed]

I didn't have an opportunity

today except for a smile and hello.
She did a bit of cardio and talked to the treadmill guy and someone else
for

about 20mins and then she left. My buddy is going to talk to the treadmill guy
tomorrow to see what's up. I would

do it myself with her, but she doesn't give the opportunity and when she is talking to someone, she doesn't like

to be interupted.

[belgareth]

Sounds a little like a prima

donna. You sure you want to bother with her? There are so many fine women running around loose it seems a waste of

effort to spend this much energy on one that might not be worth the trouble.

[Sigfreed]

belgareth


Sounds a

little like a prima donna. You sure you want to bother with her? There are so many fine women running around loose

it seems a waste of effort to spend this much energy on one that might not be worth the trouble.
You are

right possibly a prima donna and many other women around. The thing is I'm actually not focusing as much time and

energy on her as you think. Yes I've been wondering what the hell she is thinking the last few days, but I could

also care less if I didn't see her again.

What is boggling my mind the most (honest, not putting that much

focus on her) is her recent acts, the winks, sexy and sometimes shy smiles, bending over right in front of me,

coming onto treadmills right next to me when all the other treadmills are open, coming into the same area to train

as I am, talking to other people/guys about me saying that I'm hot, talking to other women in the gym and then

giving me looks in my eyes and checking me out with other women.

And why she does not give me much of an

opportunity to have meaningful conversations with her or ask anything about me while she talks to other people.



I just want to know why she is doing this or if she is just playing with my head (IMO that is what she is doing to

get my attention she gets from the other men).

That's the situation. Once I can find out what she thinks, than

I will make a move. Could she be intimidated by me or shy to speak to me? I know she isn't shy to talk with other

men.

As I said I've never encountered this with anyone women I've dated or had sexual relations with.

Once

I know what's going on in her head (and it's obvious I'm not going to be able to find out from her directly, I

will make my move)

Thanks again.

[belgareth]

As soon as she hears you are

asking about her she will have an advantage over you. Back off and let her come to you.

[MOBLEYC57]

As soon as she

hears you are asking about her she will have an advantage over you. Back off and let her come to you.
He

AIN'T listening! :rant:

[belgareth]

No, probably not. I'm used to

talking to myself though, I have kids. :frustrate

[Pancho1188]

I've stayed away from this

thread because I'm the last one who should be criticizing anyone about overanalysis and not asking a girl out, but

after all of this talk I don't get it. I consider myself one of the most clueless and conservative people that

ever walked the earth when it comes to gauging girls' interest in me...but if I got a few winks here and a few

smiles there on a consistent basis, even I would be walking tall and approaching this woman with confidence. I also

would never go around and ask someone else if she liked me...what, am I in high school? I'm an adult...I should at

least try to act like one despite the inner child wanting to get love, attention, and validation from the outside

world.

You want to ask because you want to know. You want to have the sure thing. Life is uncertain. Deal

with it. If you ask, you will not only have uncertainty but just shown that you can't handle it. I say this not

to insult but to teach what I cannot grasp myself most of the time. This is where Bel's comment kicks in. She

finds out, she has the sure thing and you don't. Where does that put you? Even worse than before. You tip your

hand, she knows what you've got, and she rules the table. The difference between that and asking her directly:

you're tipping your hand, but you're betting high stakes and showing you've got guts. In the first example,

you're showing a weak hand. In the second, you've got something (or are bluffing as is the case with "fake it

until you make it" folks), and it's her choice to call you on it. In this card game, however, high stakes show

worthiness, and women want you to raise the stakes.

No, I don't watch the World Series of Poker, but I'm

getting ready to go to Atlantic City...so cut me some slack on the poker metaphors.

[Holmes]

I

consider myself one of the most clueless and conservative people that ever walked the earth when it comes to gauging

girls' interest in me.

For the love of Ralph, assume that they are! Or at least don't assume that

they're not. (Confusion say.)

[bjf]

Pancho, I am with you...........I

don't get why he doesn't ask her out. No wonder it has been months.

[Sigfreed]

As soon as she

hears you are asking about her she will have an advantage over you. Back off and let her come to you.
I

agree with you here and I will back off and let her come to me. But at least she will know that I am in fact

interested. Maybe it's what Wood Elf said, she thinks I'm not interested. But I think I've made my intentions

more than clear. Trying to have meaningful conversations, trying to find out what she does with her free time,

checking her out, winking at her and so on.

Pancho1188


I've stayed away from this thread because

I'm the last one who should be criticizing anyone about overanalysis and not asking a girl out, but after all of

this talk I don't get it. I consider myself one of the most clueless and conservative people that ever walked the

earth when it comes to gauging girls' interest in me...but if I got a few winks here and a few smiles there on a

consistent basis, even I would be walking tall and approaching this woman with confidence. I also would never go

around and ask someone else if she liked me...what, am I in high school? I'm an adult...I should at least try to

act like one despite the inner child wanting to get love, attention, and validation from the outside world.


Well I know what you mean. But the winks just started last week when I received my Chikara. So any interaction I

had with her before was just hello's and little smiles. I did find it strange she went on treadmills right next to

me when many of the other ones were free, yet she still chose not to talk much while next to me

I know what you

mean about being in highschool. But it's her who's acting that way talking about me to other females and another

guy. So as Wood Elf I think said, it's a game and I've chosen to play. Besides she doesn't exactly give me the

opportunities to find out for myself


You want to ask because you want to know. You want to have the sure

thing. Life is uncertain. Deal with it. If you ask, you will not only have uncertainty but just shown that you

can't handle it. I say this not to insult but to teach what I cannot grasp myself most of the time. This is where

Bel's comment kicks in. She finds out, she has the sure thing and you don't. Where does that put you? Even worse

than before. You tip your hand, she knows what you've got, and she rules the table. The difference between that and

asking her directly: you're tipping your hand, but you're betting high stakes and showing you've got guts. In the

first example, you're showing a weak hand. In the second, you've got something (or are bluffing as is the case

with "fake it until you make it" folks), and it's her choice to call you on it. In this card game, however, high

stakes show worthiness, and women want you to raise the stakes.

No, I don't watch the World Series of Poker, but

I'm getting ready to go to Atlantic City...so cut me some slack on the poker metaphors.
I totally agree

with you. As I said the problem is she doesn't give me the opportunity to find out for myself as she doesn't say

much. I know this one isn't shy.

Or could she be too shy to talk to me? It's all just strange, so I'm going

to play my game. Once I find out, from my friend I will back off for sure and just keep it simple.


bjf




Pancho, I am with you...........I don't get why he doesn't ask her out. No wonder it has been months.


As I said she doesn't give me the opportunity. When she comes on the treadmill right next to me, I think

she comes there b/c she wants to talk to me. Yet when I talk, she makes it clear she doesn't want to say

much

That is where I'm left confused.

Had I been able to have even just 2 meaningful conversations in which

I could've found something out about her, I would've already asked her out no doubt. I need to have a few positive

conversations with someone before I ask them out. If they don't want to talk much or they don't ask me anything

about myself, I start assuming they aren't interested.

And in this case, I think she could very well be just

playing with my head to get my attention. If that's the case, I'd rather know ahead of time before I put myself on

the line and ask her out. If she's only about head games, I don't want to be looking like a fool.

[MOBLEYC57]

I Trying to have

meaningful conversations, trying to find out what she does with her free time, checking her out, winking at her and

so on.If you go through life always tryin to have a MEANINGFUL conversations, you're in deep poopoo!

Especially in the gym! :frustrate meaningful conversations, hmmmmm, can you tell me what would go on that list?

:blink:

Start ignoring the flake, and once she comes to you for her daily dose of attention, ask her anything

you want! You're hooked, and without a doubt, she knoooooows it. You're looking for the easy system, but with your

head where it's at, you won't find it. You've given her your nuts. Get your balls back, and act

accordingly.

Hey, you can call her parents and ask them all about her, yes? :blink:

[Sigfreed]

If you go

through life always tryin to have a MEANINGFUL conversations, you're in deep poopoo! Especially in the gym!

:frustrate meaningful conversations, hmmmmm, can you tell me what would go on that list? :blink:

Start ignoring

the flake, and once she comes to you for her daily dose of attention, ask her anything you want! You're hooked, and

without a doubt, she knoooooows it. You're looking for the easy system, but with your head where it's at, you

won't find it. You've given her your nuts. Get your balls back, and act accordingly.

Hey, you can call

her parents and ask them all about her, yes? :blink:
I doubt I could call her parents LOL. She's Arabic

and from what I've read from a couple of members in this thread, the family is usually very strict over their

daughters especially when it comes to them being involved with non Arabic men.

I'm not saying that all Arabic

families are this way as I have several Arabic friends who are pretty layed back when it comes to such things, but

from what I've read here, a couple of the members said the girls brothers tried to attack them physically.

As

for being hooked, I know how it sounds but I really could care less if I saw her again. I just want to know what her

deal is and why she is talking about me to another guy and other women.

Well I'm basically keeping it simple

stupid (KISS method). Simple hello's and smiles. As I say I don't go out of my way to talk to her like the other

men do.

She is making me feel like I'm in highschool just as Pancho1188 said. It's what she is doing. Going

around talking to other women and a guy about me, checking me out from across the room either alond or with a

friend, coming on the treadmills right next to me and not saying much. To me she's playing games and acting like a

highschool girl.

We're adults for crying out loud. If she wants to know things about me, she should have the

cohones to ask me, not the treadmill guy who knows me. That's what I don't get.

Do you think she's shy to

come talk to me herself? B/c my impression of her is not the shy type.

But I really don't care if I see her

again or not. I just want to know why she's talking about me to another guy and other women saying I'm hot and

checking me out with them and not talking to me.

Just bizare, this is a very first experience for me. Even in

highschool my hisghschool sweetie didn't play these games.

[MOBLEYC57]

I doubt I could

call her parents LOL. She's Arabic
Damnit, I've been missing that! Reading without my reading

glasses! :frustrate Forget any and everything I've said! You have a whole new different kind of animal that

requires lots of research. :type:

ARABIC = CONFUSION!:run:

Good luck! :box:

[surfs_up]

if you've lived in other cultures and/or been with women who are grounded in other (non

anglo american) cultures you begin to discover that they have unexpected approaches to many social matters that we

take for granted. Middle Eastern cultures have the custom of speaking through intermediaries, in other words, what

we would consider straightforward they would consider rude or "not playing by the book".... there are frequently

traditional people who carry a message from one party to another... this makes a great deal of sense in cultures

which believe in arranged marriages and where the family honor is more significant that the individual. There would

be a diplomatic go-between person who knows how and when to approach another party and delicately raise the issue

without forcing it, so if either party does not think it is such a good idea or establish the relationship, there is

little loss of face. Even a modernized, westernized Middle Eastern person may feel like speaking through a third

party to sound out the situation (especially if there is some seriousness of intention) shows good manners and

proper social form. A second critical thing to understand is that Arabic people especially have much closer

intermarriage patterns as the norm than Americans do, marriages between cousins are considered normal, the foremost

concern is the solidarity of the tribe. If you create a problem for one member of the family, it is seen as a

challenge to the honor of the tribe.... and, btw, these are also "revenge cultures", where failure to take revenge

for an insult (or what is perceived as an insult) may be perceived as disgraceful for the whole family. Much of this

explains why the Middle East is a difficult place to establish harmony between faiths, sects within faiths,

political camps, the are all about turf and honor.

[Sigfreed]

MobleyC57


Damnit,

I've been missing that! Reading without my reading glasses! :frustrate Forget any and everything I've said! You

have a whole new different kind of animal that requires lots of research. :type:

ARABIC =

CONFUSION!:run:

Good luck! :box: I assume you're kidding?
I'm very open minded towards

different nationalities as I've dated people from different religions and countries and most of my friends are of

different including Arabic, Palestinian, Greek, Jewish, Italian, Cuban, Irish, Dominican you name it.

Surfs_Up




if you've lived in other cultures and/or been with women who are grounded in other (non anglo american)

cultures you begin to discover that they have unexpected approaches to many social matters that we take for granted.

Middle Eastern cultures have the custom of speaking through intermediaries, in other words, what we would consider

straightforward they would consider rude or "not playing by the book".... there are frequently traditional people

who carry a message from one party to another... this makes a great deal of sense in cultures which believe in

arranged marriages and where the family honor is more significant that the individual. There would be a diplomatic

go-between person who knows how and when to approach another party and delicately raise the issue without forcing

it, so if either party does not think it is such a good idea or establish the relationship, there is little loss of

face. Even a modernized, westernized Middle Eastern person may feel like speaking through a third party to sound out

the situation (especially if there is some seriousness of intention) shows good manners and proper social form. A

second critical thing to understand is that Arabic people especially have much closer intermarriage patterns as the

norm than Americans do, marriages between cousins are considered normal, the foremost concern is the solidarity of

the tribe. If you create a problem for one member of the family, it is seen as a challenge to the honor of the

tribe.... and, btw, these are also "revenge cultures", where failure to take revenge for an insult (or what is

perceived as an insult) may be perceived as disgraceful for the whole family. Much of this explains why the Middle

East is a difficult place to establish harmony between faiths, sects within faiths, political camps, the are all

about turf and honor. I agree with you on this one. As my Ex was from Spain and her father was Jewish. So

there was some conflict with my ex's family.

From what I read with Surf's_Up thread he believes it's possible

that her family background may be interfering with her approach towards me.

Does anyone else strongly believe

that this could be a problem?
Do any of you think I should not get involved with her b/c of her background? I have

nothing against people's nationalities, I'm mostly concered what types of problems could occur.

Yesterday I

saw her talking to the treadmill guy and the two of them were talking to an older man in his mid 40's or 50's with

a hat and moustache for about 20mins, maybe longer. I've never seen this gentleman before.

What I'm going to

say LOL would probably be crazy, but you never know b/c I know ppl that this sort of thing has happened to.

I'm

wondering could the older gentleman be her father and she came with him to talk to the treadmill guy about me

considering I talk to the treadmill guy so he knows me.

Unlikely but I have a friend who is going out with this

Italian girl and her family is strict. A few weeks ago when they first started dating before their first date my

friend's girlfriend had to sit down with her aunt (who was his boss so one family member knew him), the girls

Mother and the girl to talk so they could know him better. And he passed the test which was amazing b/c he isn't

Italian.

Pretty hardcore eh? I have total respect families who have these values.

But in all seriousness,

would it be just too difficult to be involved with her? I know for a fact that she is open minded and pretty

liberal, but I'm not sure about her family and considering she lives at home I have know idea.

[MOBLEYC57]

MobleyC57

I

assume you're kidding?
I'm very open minded towards different nationalities as I've dated people from different

religions and countries and most of my friends are of different including Arabic, Palestinian, Greek, Jewish,

Italian, Cuban, Irish, Dominican you name it.
No, I'm not kidding. Understanding one's culture and being

open minded is two totally different animals. And, it's obvious that you don't understand, or you wouldn't be

here trying to see the answers.

If she was born and raised in America, she might have some of our ways, but if

not, that makes a difference. Reread SurfsUp post, and again, and again.

Personally, I wouldn't get

disappointed in her actions, it's not personal.

[Holmes]

there may be

great unspoken cultural differences

Count on it.

[Sigfreed]

MobleyC57


No, I'm

not kidding. Understanding one's culture and being open minded is two totally different animals. And, it's obvious

that you don't understand, or you wouldn't be here trying to see the answers.

If she was born and raised in

America, she might have some of our ways, but if not, that makes a difference. Reread SurfsUp post, and again, and

again.

Personally, I wouldn't get disappointed in her actions, it's not personal.
I think she may

have been born and raised over here as she from what I can see is pretty layed back and flirts with ppl of different

nationalities and cultures including her own Arabic culture.

I have learned a lot about different nationalities,

but my knowlege of the Arabic nationality is limited. I've only been able to learn some basics from my Arabic

friends and even they don't know everything b/c their parents were born and raised over here in North America.



Now that we've discussed this some, maybe her actions aren't personal. But they are confusing. And most parents

of different nationalities
(at least strict and orthodox parents) would prefer their daughters to be with one of

their own culture.

The Arabic friends that I have who's parents born and raised in north america have had mixed

marriages, and a few of the Arabic friends I have are dating non Arabic women and their parents don't mind or care

b/c they have mixed marriages.

So you think it's better not to be involved with her?

Holmes




Count on it.
Tiz expected.

[Sigfreed]

I think I'm going to move on.

I don't know if it's a cultural issue reating to her Arabic nationality, if she's really playing hard to get, or

just concieted/attention seeker.

Today was too much. She came on the treadmill right next to me when there were

4 other ones available. So I assume she wants to talk and the treadmill guy wasn't there, I spoke to him on the

other side.
So I attempt to speak to her and at first she "didn't hear me" so I said hi how are you doing?



She said fine. I asked her if she was training late today and she said know as she's usually there earlier. I

asked her if she had a good weekend.

So I proceeded to ask her if she did anything special on the weekend and

she said no. I asked her what she normally likes to do on the weekend. She wasn't overly receptive. She just said

that she does different things like going for dinners or drinks. I asked her if they were usually last minute things

and she said yes.

I then said on Saturday my friends took me out for drinks and I came home at around 3:30am and

said that it was something I didn't do very often as I hadn't been out that late in a long time as I usually come

home by 1 or 2am and then I sleep.

I then asked her if she ever goes out very late every now and then. She says

it depends. At this moment I was about to ask her what she likes to do for fun and she cut me off saying she had to

concentrate on her running.

It is hard to talk and run at the same time, but I still got a bit of a cold feeling

from her. I said by to her when I finished and she just waved like she couldn't be bothered.

And when I walked

by the treadmills as I left I waved and was going to wink but when I saw that she wasn't even looking in my

direction
(I knew she saw me come out of the locker room) I just put my hand down and left and I was like WTF?




When I went to the juice bar there was this new girl who started there a couple of weeks ago that I was

flirting a bit with last Thursday. Last week I saw her put something on the grill to cook for a customer.

When I

got my oatmeal bar I jokingly said with a smile and wink "What were you cooking up over there trouble?" And she

laughed. Today I related back to that joke and I said "You're not cooking up any trouble today?" with a wink and

smile and she smiled. I asked her "what her favorite recipes where" and she said just trouble with a smile. I then

asked her "if it was A La Carte (single plate) or all you can eat?" with a smile and wink.

She really laughed at

that one and said it was both on the menu. So that lightened my day after the Arabic girl incident just earlier.




I have another question does it always mean someone is married or they have a boyfriend if they are wearing a

ring on their left ring finger? B/c this girl at the juice bar had a silvery looking ring on her left ring finger.

I've always thought that meant they were married or it was a ring their boyfriend gave them.

Thanks

[culturalblonde]

I also

would never go around and ask someone else if she liked me...what, am I in high school?


You'd be

surprised at how many men do that. And not only that *whispering* the guy they ask to go tell the girl will hit on

the girl too. And they'll say it in a way that if you tell, they will say they were just joking. Ladies you know

what I am talking about.

[Pancho1188]

That happened in a Seinfeld

episode. Jerry told Kramer about his new girlfriend being a hit-and-run driver. When Jerry tried to pay the

victim, an attractive girl he's always wanted to talk to, because his girlfriend wouldn't tell anyone that she did

it, the girl thought Jerry did it. Kramer used the situation as an excuse to talk to her and got a date.




It's hard going up saying you like someone, but it's so easy to talk to that same person when you know that

you're there because someone else likes her.

[InternationalPlayboy]

You'd be surprised at how many men do that. And not only that *whispering* the guy they ask

to go tell the girl will hit on the girl too. And they'll say it in a way that if you tell, they will say they

were just joking. Ladies you know what I am talking about.

I had the hots for a woman at work about

18 years ago. I constantly talked about her to my co-workers and analyzed things, but was afraid to approach her.

After she joined my karate class, I finally broke the ice.

I was out of town for the weekend, when a local

food and wine event was announced. A cow-orker who was a macho type and kind of pushed his way around, moved in and

asked her out before I had a chance. I went to the event anyway, stag, and she told me in front of him that she

would have gone with me. But it was too late. My cow-orker wasn't attracted to her until I constantly obsessed

about her and took the first opportunity that came along. I was devastated.

From then on, there was a

love/hate rivalry between the cow-orker and myself. Sometimes we got along great, then suddenly we would clash

royally. Usually he would become hostile after using Smilax, a steroid-like substance, for awhile. But I never quite

forgave and forgot about him moving in on my "beloved" when my back was turned. (Nor forgotten my obsessive behavior

that led to it in the first place.)

[Sigfreed]

You'd be

surprised at how many men do that. And not only that *whispering* the guy they ask to go tell the girl will hit on

the girl too. And they'll say it in a way that if you tell, they will say they were just joking. Ladies you know

what I am talking about.
So I'm assuming this is a bad thing right? Well in this case considering

there's an Arabic culture difference, that sort of thing maybe more exceptable.

[Sigfreed]

That happened

in a Seinfeld episode. Jerry told Kramer about his new girlfriend being a hit-and-run driver. When Jerry tried to

pay the victim, an attractive girl he's always wanted to talk to, because his girlfriend wouldn't tell anyone that

she did it, the girl thought Jerry did it. Kramer used the situation as an excuse to talk to her and got a date.




It's hard going up saying you like someone, but it's so easy to talk to that same person when you know that

you're there because someone else likes her.
I agree, but didn't you say ppl of Arabic descent often use

approaches through other ppl dating wise?

[Sigfreed]

I

had the hots for a woman at work about 18 years ago. I constantly talked about her to my co-workers and analyzed

things, but was afraid to approach her. After she joined my karate class, I finally broke the ice.

I was out of

town for the weekend, when a local food and wine event was announced. A cow-orker who was a macho type and kind of

pushed his way around, moved in and asked her out before I had a chance. I went to the event anyway, stag, and she

told me in front of him that she would have gone with me. But it was too late. My cow-orker wasn't attracted to her

until I constantly obsessed about her and took the first opportunity that came along. I was devastated.

From

then on, there was a love/hate rivalry between the cow-orker and myself. Sometimes we got along great, then suddenly

we would clash royally. Usually he would become hostile after using Smilax, a steroid-like substance, for awhile.

But I never quite forgave and forgot about him moving in on my "beloved" when my back was turned. (Nor forgotten my

obsessive behavior that led to it in the first place.)
Maybe it isn't the best idea, but this guy is

getting a house with a hottie of his own and has marriage plans in the future. But then again I'm sadly seeing that

marriage for many ppl doesn't mean much anymore.

[Gegogi]

"Pancho, I am with

you...........I don't get why he doesn't ask her out. No wonder it has been months."

Well, things

are never as simple as they may seem. I once flirted with a woman for months and knew without a doubt we were

mutually attracted to one another. I didn't ask her out because she told me she was married (I asked). Eventually

she asked me out and we went on to a long and passionate romance, even got got married a couple years later. It

turns out she was married but left him after 6 months, and hadn't seen him for 2 years. She didn't want to explain

the situation as it was complicated and she was rather ashamed. Apparently she couldn't afford a divorce and was

saving up!

[InternationalPlayboy]

Maybe it isn't the best idea, but this guy is getting a house with a hottie of his own and has

marriage plans in the future. But then again I'm sadly seeing that marriage for many ppl doesn't mean much

anymore.

Actually, marriage was the furthest thing from his mind. He had married a woman from the

Marshall Islands a few years before and had a son before he left her. He left because he couldn't handle the

Marshallese culture where the woman dominated and ct caused him to constantly fight with his wife. He can never set

foot on the islands again as he tried to take his son with him when he left. She never signed the divorce papers, so

technically, he was still married.

The job he had with me he took after a year of unemployment. He was living

with a woman he met in California, at her parents' house! When his overseas money ran out and needed a job, he

moved here with his girlfriend and her kid from some other guy. She was a cutie! And at her suggestion, she would

pose topless for pictures in semi-public locations! My kind of girl.

She left him when he came home one night

after working out. He hadn't worked off all of the Smilax and had a roid rage when he saw her feeding her kid ice

cream. He spent the night in jail and when he got out, she was on her way back home. One of his complaints is that

she wouldn't get a job. Well, who mooched off of whose parents for a year?

This guy fit the pattern of other

bullies I've known in my life. I'm basically a meek guy and would get along with a bully until suddenly they would

turn on me, usually when I had something they wanted.

<Paul Harvey persona> And now, you know the rest of the

story. </Paul Harvey persona>

My point was that I spent so much energy analyzing and speaking about my

feelings and obsessions that I lost my chance and convinced someone else of the woman's value.

And as to the

statement from culturalblonde that I quoted in my previous post, I'm reminded of the story of Miles Standish, where

he sent John Aldren to tell the woman he was enamored that he liked her. She replied, "Why don't you speak for

yourself, John?"

[Gegogi]

"He left because he

couldn't handle the Marshallese culture where the woman dominated and ct caused him to constantly fight with his

wife."

Then he'll want to avoid both Chinese and Filipino women like the plague. They'll fight to

the death but probably wear you down long before busting out the Kinsu.

[chicago]

sigfreed give me the address of

this gym, where the arab girl works out.

i will go there and fuck her

lol
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[chicago]

what the fuck is a

Kinsu
________
Prilosec help (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/prilosec/)

[Gegogi]

A large knife.

[Sigfreed]

Gegogi


Well, things

are never as simple as they may seem. I once flirted with a woman for months and knew without a doubt we were

mutually attracted to one another. I didn't ask her out because she told me she was married (I asked). Eventually

she asked me out and we went on to a long and passionate romance, even got got married a couple years later. It

turns out she was married but left him after 6 months, and hadn't seen him for 2 years. She didn't want to explain

the situation as it was complicated and she was rather ashamed. Apparently she couldn't afford a divorce and was

saving up!
So she is now your wife? And she was still married to you but didn't tell you b/c she was

ashamed and saving for a divorce? At least she wasn't still sleeping with him while she was with you. Are you still

married to her?

Pretty interesting story, thanks for sharing.

InternationalPlayboy


Actually,

marriage was the furthest thing from his mind. He had married a woman from the Marshall Islands a few years before

and had a son before he left her. He left because he couldn't handle the Marshallese culture where the woman

dominated and ct caused him to constantly fight with his wife. He can never set foot on the islands again as he

tried to take his son with him when he left. She never signed the divorce papers, so technically, he was still

married.

The job he had with me he took after a year of unemployment. He was living with a woman he met in

California, at her parents' house! When his overseas money ran out and needed a job, he moved here with his

girlfriend and her kid from some other guy. She was a cutie! And at her suggestion, she would pose topless for

pictures in semi-public locations! My kind of girl.

She left him when he came home one night after working out.

He hadn't worked off all of the Smilax and had a roid rage when he saw her feeding her kid ice cream. He spent the

night in jail and when he got out, she was on her way back home. One of his complaints is that she wouldn't get a

job. Well, who mooched off of whose parents for a year?

This guy fit the pattern of other bullies I've known in

my life. I'm basically a meek guy and would get along with a bully until suddenly they would turn on me, usually

when I had something they wanted.

<Paul Harvey persona> And now, you know the rest of the story. </Paul Harvey

persona>

My point was that I spent so much energy analyzing and speaking about my feelings and obsessions that I

lost my chance and convinced someone else of the woman's value.

And as to the statement from culturalblonde that

I quoted in my previous post, I'm reminded of the story of Miles Standish, where he sent John Aldren to tell the

woman he was enamored that he liked her. She replied, "Why don't you speak for yourself, John?"


Interesting story and your buddy sounds like a jerk. I never got into steroids, I almost did for football about 5

years ago but decided not to take them and glad I didn't b/c many ppl get addicted to anabolic steroids.

As for

speaking for myself everyone else is right which is something I most always do, except in this case as this girl is

playing highschool games.

Chicago


sigfreed give me the address of this gym, where the arab girl

works out.

i will go there and fuck her lol
LOL, you will need about $2,000 or more of spending money

to blow if you want to have even the slightest chance of having sex with her.

Personally from what my friend

told me and what I hear about this Arabic woman, she is a gold digger. She doesn't give out her home number as she

lives at home, and is very selective of who she gives out her cell number to.

I guarantee if you were to get a

date with her, you'd have to spend $150 and you probably still wouldn't get any sexual experiences with her.

She'd probably ask for your number and never use it.

She feeds off of the attention that men of all ages give

her when they follow her around and when she doesn't get that attention, she gets in a bad mood and is cold to

certain people. I guarantee she probably has a 40yr+ old man in her life with lots of money who she sees every now

and then. And I bet it's a man that doesn't live in the area or go to the gym as she seems to be very private and

doesn't say much about herself.

I'm going to ignore her for a week and I know it will piss her off as she

didn't get her daily dosage and I want to see what type of reaction she has.

I've heard of playing hard to

get, but IMO it shouldn't be this hard for a man to take a woman out for dinner or a drink cultural differences or

not. I'm moving on.

I've never had this much trouble or confusion with someone who was interested in me.

[surfs_up]

there are mental freakshows where the best decision is to walk away.... this Arab girl-woman

obviously has some serious psychological problems with intimacy. Unhook your brain from her mildly deranged behavior

while you still have your self respect and sanity intact. Rule #1 = where there's smoke, there's fire.

Translation: if someone acts strangely, unpredictably, their choices don't make emotional sense BEFORE you become

involved, you may be guaranteed that that person will become maddeningly, disgustingly weird AFTER you're in the

relationship... Rule #2 = when you see you're in a losing game, cut your losses as fast as you can. OR... when you

find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Rule #3 =
people who lack self respect don't respect other people either.

People with little self respect are capable of the most incredibly fucked up things. Therefor: if you sense that you

are being turned into an "emotional toy", she doesn't see you as an independent human being, she see you as an

extension of her own weird thought processes.
Summation: you go to the store and want to buy some food to cook.

You see a delicious chicken. You imagine it roasting in your oven. You pick it up and smell it, only to sense that

the meat is rotten.... you have an immediate visceral response that no way are you going to cook and eat that

chicken. For sure you will be sick all right. Think like that with people, if they smell like they'll make you

sick, they will make you sick.

[belgareth]

Great analogies! You sound as

if you've been there and done that. Maybe even bought the tee shirt?

[MOBLEYC57]

Rule #3 =

people who lack self respect don't respect other people either. People with little self respect are

VERY capable of the most incredibly fucked up things.
I know he's not listening,

because he hasn't learned to yet, but I've decided to pull it out so it can be seen again. This is definitely a

KEEPER for life! :box:

READ TO ACHIEVE! :frustrate

[surfs_up]

in retrospect the biggest mistake I made (about a thousand times before it sank in to my

tiny mind) was that if you believe in the golden rule others will believe in it too. You know, be empathetic and

understanding, and Voila ! they will, just like magic, see the light, wake up to all their foolishness, and be

better human beings by dawn tomorrow. Sloooooowly it came to be known that patterns of behavior are set early in

life, even small changes in personality/behavior/ethics are hard to achieve, annnnnd the kicker for me was that even

the most fucked up, miserable creatures who repeat absurd self destructive + other destructive shit are

fundamentally content with who they are, or are too lazy and full of dumbass inertia to change who they are even if

they suspect they ought to, or are so egotistic any useful criticism is seen as a grevious personal affront, or are

so clueless they run around crashing into other lives, leave wreakage strewn about, and then lurch forth like

automotons to crash into the next unsuspecting victim. Lesson : don't waste your time trying to change other

people. Your best defense is early detection and avoidance. Stay way the hell away from no-win mind games. If you

want other people to change, work on yourself, find a good psychologist and discuss recurrent patterns in your life

and why they may keep cropping up if that's what you need to do. Read a pile of behavioral books....
#1

suggestion for inforative reading Emotional Vampires: Dealing With Deople Who Drain You Dry by Albert Bernstein,

Ph.D.... a quote from the book "Emotional Vampires will use you to meet whatever needs they happen to be

experiencing at the moment. They have no qualms about taking your effort, your money, your love, your attention,

your admiration, your body or your soul to meet their insatiable cravings. They want what they want and they don't

much care how you feel about it".... for $12.95 paperback it was a good investment, my copy is well undelined by

now.

[Holmes]

Great analogies!

You sound as if you've been there and done that. Maybe even bought the tee shirt?

:lol:

The

one that says "Kick Me" on the back?

Emotional Vampires is a great book.

[MOBLEYC57]

annnnnd the

kicker for me was that even the most fucked up, miserable creatures who repeat absurd self destructive + other

destructive shit are fundamentally content with who they are, or are too lazy and full of dumbass inertia to

change who they are even if they suspect they ought to, or are so egotistic any useful criticism is seen as a

grevious personal affront, or are so clueless they run around crashing into other lives, leave wreakage strewn

about, and then lurch forth like automotons to crash into the next unsuspecting victim.

Lesson :

don't waste your time trying to change other people. Your best defense is early detection and avoidance. Stay way

the hell away from no-win mind games.
It's taken me yearsssssssssss to get that lesson!

:frustrate No one could have ever make me believe that IF the other person saw you as a good person, they wouldn't

WANT to change. I stayed and stayed, always saying to myself, "her eyes will open, and she'll have no choice but

WANT to be a part of something special, and change. Not! :nono:

You can learn a lot ... from a

dummy! :rant:

Thumbs up, Surfs-Up! :box:

[Sigfreed]

surfs_Up



there

are mental freakshows where the best decision is to walk away.... this Arab girl-woman obviously has some serious

psychological problems with intimacy. Unhook your brain from her mildly deranged behavior while you still have your

self respect and sanity intact. Rule #1 = where there's smoke, there's fire. Translation: if someone acts

strangely, unpredictably, their choices don't make emotional sense BEFORE you become involved, you may be

guaranteed that that person will become maddeningly, disgustingly weird AFTER you're in the relationship... Rule #2

= when you see you're in a losing game, cut your losses as fast as you can. OR... when you find yourself in a hole,

stop digging. Rule #3 =
people who lack self respect don't respect other people either. People with little self

respect are capable of the most incredibly fucked up things. Therefore: if you sense that you are being turned into

an "emotional toy", she doesn't see you as an independent human being, she see you as an extension of her own weird

thought processes.
Summation: you go to the store and want to buy some food to cook. You see a delicious chicken.

You imagine it roasting in your oven. You pick it up and smell it, only to sense that the meat is rotten.... you

have an immediate visceral response that no way are you going to cook and eat that chicken. For sure you will be

sick all right. Think like that with people, if they smell like they'll make you sick, they will make you

sick.
I think she has more psychological problems than just intimacy. I also think she has low self esteem

which is why she always seeks attention from as many men as she can and won't accept dates or friendly

conversation.

I was just going to say that I'm calling it quits on this clearly conceited female while I still

have my pride and self respect.

I can understand and respect different cultures systems when it comes to dating

but too much is too much.


Belgareth


Great analogies! You sound as if you've been there and done

that. Maybe even bought the tee shirt?
I've come to realize that we've all been through something

totally outrageous and abnormal when it comes to relationships, dating, and the opposite sex.

I guarantee that

if all of us get together and discuss our most wildest and infuriating dating tales, that we could make a movie or

something. I bet each of us has a tale to share that we each have not experienced yet.

MobleyC57


I

know he's not listening, because he hasn't learned to yet, but I've decided to pull it out so it can be seen

again. This is definitely a KEEPER for life! :box:

READ TO ACHIEVE! :frustrate
Of course I'm

listening. If you haven't read my previous replies, I stated that I'm giving up on this woman. Just too confusing

and whatever the cultural differences are, no guy should have to go through this to take someone out for a drink.





What I will say is if anything were to happen, it would be short term or maybe even just a one night stand.

And to get that short term dating or one night stand I would most likely have had to spend $150 on dinner and I

might not even get anything out of it after that as that's the type of woman she is.

She is at the gym 6 days a

week maybe even 7. I'm not sure about Sunday as I'm never there. But there is the few days she won't show, but

for the most part she's there 6 days a week. The gym seems to be %80 if not more of her life. The gym is her social

scene where she gets her attention from. As I stated earlier, I'm sure she sees older and richer men who don't go

to the gym and maybe don't live around here.

So I'm going to cut my losses and ignore her which will sure piss

her off but that's what I want to piss her off. I'm going to look for someone much less complicated.

Sorry

guys about all this, I thought there may have been an oportunity with her for something. I have been minding my own

business until this she started up with this crap a few weeks ago.

[MOBLEYC57]

MobleyC57



Of course I'm listening. If you haven't read my previous replies, I stated that I'm giving up on this woman.

Just too confusing and whatever the cultural differences are, no guy should have to go through this to take someone

out for a drink.
One can listen, and not understand/see the point, which is what I meant, Sig.

One

more thing, DO NOT let the forum persuade you into doing what YOU do not want to do. It's always best to see it for

yourself. Pretty much, everything said has value to it, but no one really knows what's on her mind. Months of

torture deserves an answer. :twisted:

The confusion is what's got you. :POKE:

And before I forget ...

I'm reserving all rights to be wrong!:run:

[belgareth]

:lol:

The

one that says "Kick Me" on the back?

Emotional Vampires is a great book.
Uh...yup! I got me

one of them thar shirts m'self. Didn't reckon so danged many folks could read and follie directions.

[Rbt]

Sigh... My 2 cents: Yes indeed, one

lesson I have learned in life is that some people are just no damn good. Period.

You can't change 'em. That's

the way they come. The only change possible must come from within themselves. And don't hold your breath waiting.

[Holmes]

Uh...yup! I got

me one of them thar shirts m'self. Didn't reckon so danged many folks could read and follie

directions.

Is it the white one with white print?

Them shirts is sure expensive! (Got a pile

of 'em maself.)

[belgareth]

Is it the white

one with white print?

Them shirts is sure expensive! (Got a pile of 'em maself.)
I think mine all

have the flashing orange and green neon print. :)

[Sigfreed]

MobleyC57


One can

listen, and not understand/see the point, which is what I meant, Sig.

One more thing, DO NOT let the forum

persuade you into doing what YOU do not want to do. It's always best to see it for yourself. Pretty much,

everything said has value to it, but no one really knows what's on her mind. Months of torture deserves an answer.

:twisted:

The confusion is what's got you. :POKE:

And before I forget ... I'm reserving all rights to be

wrong!:run:
Yes and I do understand as well as listen nor am I letting anyone else influence me. I've

also discussed her with my friends say I should ignore her for a week and see what she does. And I truly feel she is

just playing with my head for her daily dose of attention that she feeds off of.

Being the red blooded male that

I am, I don't have time in this world to waste on a woman such as this one. If she comes to me that's cool, if

not, I'm not going out of my way.

Rbt


Sigh... My 2 cents: Yes indeed, one lesson I have learned in

life is that some people are just no damn good. Period.

You can't change 'em. That's the way they come. The

only change possible must come from within themselves. And don't hold your breath waiting.
You are right

but we can't forget the possiblity of cultural clashes regarding dating in this situation. Either way, as I already

said, no guy should have to go through this for a date.

I'm going to ignore her for awhile, I barely give her

any attention as it is and she doesn't like it. I want to see how she reacts when I ignore her for awhile.

How

do you guys think she will react to that?

A. pissed off
B. she will go out of her way a little more to talk to

me
C. won't give a f^ck

I personally think it will be C (just like the answers to all multiple choice tests in

school LOL, just kidding).

She is too consumed with herself to give a f^ck. In case Wood Elf replies, no Wood, I

would not want to be with a woman like this. But it would've been fun to be able to say that I took her out a few

times and had fun.
But I would not want to date this woman or marry her as I can tell she's after the bucks.

[esk6969]

Wow, this is the thread that

just won't die, even though it deserves a quick and painless death. I followed along a lot over the weekend, but

then, got busy with life and stuff.

Since that time, the conclusions that have been reached are that this girl is

"Arabic", (are we SURE about that), that her "cultural differences" make her impossible to understand, that she is

conceited, stuck up, a gold digger, playing head games, that her father may have come to the gym to give his

blessing for a date (um, no), and lord knows what else. Yet, from what I can tell, the extent of the actual

conversations have been : "hi, how you doing", "ok", "did you have a good weekend", "yeah it was ok", "what did you

do", "not much, well, gotta run." Wow.

I suppose I should make the assumption then, that basically, no one

has asked this chic out yet. International Playboy's story was very appropriate to the thread. I'd bet even

money, good money, that some naive dumb new guy will join this gym, see her, like what he sees, ask her out, she'll

say yes, because she has no life and is always at the gym, and here someone FINALLY had the guts to come up and ask

her out. And she'll go out with him, just because he asked.

What about "cookin' up trouble", girl, then?

Gonna ask her out, or just analyze the situation for months on end? Wring our hands over whether her ring is an

engagement ring, or just a promise ring, or maybe it's just jewelry, but we're not really sure, so we'll agonize

over the color, cut, clarity, carat weight, and quality of the gemstone, and make suppositions about what kind of

man her supposed husband must be, and analyze her every minute reaction, when a simple "nice ring - are you

married", would probably tell us everything we want to know.....:frustrate

[tounge]

Did anyone here ever stop to think

that maybe the chick is just fine, and Sigfreed is the one with the problems?

[Sir Louis]

Thanks all sorry

for the length, but there was a lot of needed detail to describe. Sounds like you've practically wrapped it

up. Just initiate a friendly date, the situation should steadily escalate from there. If you are unsure how to be

more direct, just say, "Hi, you seem very cool, if you are free Friday, would you like to [insert]?"

[Sir Louis]

in retrospect

the biggest mistake I made (about a thousand times before it sank in to my tiny mind) was that if you believe in the

golden rule others will believe in it too. You know, be empathetic and understanding, and Voila ! they will, just

like magic, see the light, wake up to all their foolishness, and be better human beings by dawn tomorrow.

Sloooooowly it came to be known that patterns of behavior are set early in life, even small changes in

personality/behavior/ethics are hard to achieve, annnnnd the kicker for me was that even the most fucked up,

miserable creatures who repeat absurd self destructive + other destructive shit are fundamentally content with who

they are, or are too lazy and full of dumbass inertia to change who they are even if they suspect they ought to, or

are so egotistic any useful criticism is seen as a grevious personal affront, or are so clueless they run around

crashing into other lives, leave wreakage strewn about, and then lurch forth like automotons to crash into the next

unsuspecting victim. Lesson : don't waste your time trying to change other people. Your best defense is early

detection and avoidance. Stay way the hell away from no-win mind games. If you want other people to change, work on

yourself, find a good psychologist and discuss recurrent patterns in your life and why they may keep cropping up if

that's what you need to do. Read a pile of behavioral books....
#1 suggestion for inforative reading Emotional

Vampires: Dealing With Deople Who Drain You Dry by Albert Bernstein, Ph.D.... a quote from the book "Emotional

Vampires will use you to meet whatever needs they happen to be experiencing at the moment. They have no qualms about

taking your effort, your money, your love, your attention, your admiration, your body or your soul to meet their

insatiable cravings. They want what they want and they don't much care how you feel about it".... for $12.95

paperback it was a good investment, my copy is well undelined by now.
The word you're looking for is

narcissistic personality disorder, a lesser form of psychopathy. You might find Sam

Vaknin's (http://samvak.tripod.com/) literature on NPD very interesting. I was in denial with my ex for a long time, and this was an

invaluable resource to at least understanding the mechanisms behind the way she was. I'd say it was more of a

grieving process than anything.

[Gegogi]

"this Arab girl-woman

obviously has some serious psychological problems with intimacy."

Isn't that a real stretch, even

for armchair psychoanalysis, when behavioral observations are based on forum messages and hearsay? There's another

side to this story--her side--and I bet it's an extremely different perspective.

[MOBLEYC57]

Did anyone here

ever stop to think that maybe the chick is just fine, and Sigfreed is the one with the problems?



:box: It's been known to happen! :box:

[surfs_up]

yeah, were dealing with a hypothetical case, only a narrow description... OTOH how do you respond to

the situation as described ? The possibilities are that, as they used to say all the time in NLP, "the map isn't

the territory".... This is one guy's map, imagination, projection... for all we know it may be a composite figure,

not fully true, an attempt to undeline a behavioral pattern...

All that said, if you are interacting with

another person and you are picking up strongly mixed emotional messages, such as well understood behaviors that are

a species wide signal for attraction, interest, curiosity, or desire and, simultaneously you are beign sent well

understood signals of rejection, disinterest, disgust, or belittlement, you are by definition experiencing

INCONGRUITY....

Incongruity may be used profesionally for interrogation as it induces as sense of confusion,

helplessnesss, and compliance, as when it is applied in the classic good cop/bad cop routine, it may be used in

dramatic storytelling, when something is out of place in a scene, like a fur coat hanging up in a greasy gas

station, or it can be subtle, as the psychologists call them "minimal cues", like a guy who winces when you mention

his brother... this is an entire study in itself... for instance a trainer, Dave Dobson (in his final years but

still working, remarkably) with his Other Than Conscious Communication program makes congruity his primary

focus...

Anyway.... we don't know the true events in the gym.. what we do have is a not too off base

description of incongruent behavior....which we can think about on its own terms. It is normal to experience low

levels of incongruity throughout the day, everyone has multiple priorities, not all agendas are perfectly aligned,

the saleman who sells you something may genuinely like you but he's also got to look out for himself, on the other

side of the equation a good customer knows how to sort out the selling behavior from the true feeling and make a

good decision that leaves the relationship intact.

OTOH, there are more than enough crime shows on the cable

channels which detail the most bizarre relationships, marriages, etc... where there must have been screaming

incongruity from day one that was overlooked.... which suggests that some people are exceedingly incompetent in

detecting incongruity, or they were raised in families where incongruity was "normal" and they have been programmed

to think of incongruent behavior as the way humans are...

The other legitimate explanation for incongruity is

pseudo-incongruity where one culture has evolved a different, accepted behavioral pattern that ultimately makes

sense within that culture. I have had aquaintances who have married into African families (and v.v.) who have

travelled to Africa to meet their in-laws who were initially floored, weirded out beyond any possible expectation,

by "normal, polite, standard" social customs... they weren't bad or awful behaviors, but from a middle class

American perspection they made absolutely no sense, until they were understood through long exposure to the

culture.

Our hypothetical girl offers us a wealth of possibilities in either direction.... and like

Kurosawa's film Rashomon, every participant has his or her own inner movie of what the truth is... a useful aside

about psychology and psychologists... we rarely know what our own truth is, we might not recognize it if it was put

right in front of us.... well intended people struggle for years to know themselves, what causes them to feel and

think the way they do, their lives to have the shapes they have taken... and the best of psychologists must work

with their experience, intuition, material they have studied... they almost never see the family dynamics first

hand, or have spoken with the mother or father who created the person who the patient is... they can only respond to

the information given, as we do here.

[Sigfreed]

esk6969


I suppose I

should make the assumption then, that basically, no one has asked this chic out yet. International Playboy's story

was very appropriate to the thread. I'd bet even money, good money, that some naive dumb new guy will join this

gym, see her, like what he sees, ask her out, she'll say yes, because she has no life and is always at the gym, and

here someone FINALLY had the guts to come up and ask her out. And she'll go out with him, just because he asked.



What about "cookin' up trouble", girl, then? Gonna ask her out, or just analyze the situation for months on

end? Wring our hands over whether her ring is an engagement ring, or just a promise ring, or maybe it's just

jewelry, but we're not really sure, so we'll agonize over the color, cut, clarity, carat weight, and quality of

the gemstone, and make suppositions about what kind of man her supposed husband must be, and analyze her every

minute reaction, when a simple "nice ring - are you married", would probably tell us everything we want to

know.....:frustrate

Well if anyone does ask this particular gym girl (the Arabic one), he will have a

lot of bucks. And as I already said, she most likely is seeing someone occasionally who has dough, either her age or

older. I've over heard other guys ask her out and she the majority of the time rejects them or goes out with them

once to a fancy restauarnt say for $150 for a meal and doesn't call them back.

As for the juice bar girl at the

gym, she's only there once a week, twice at most so we're not exposed to eachother too often and some weeks I

don't even see her. She doesn't work out there so I can't talk to her in the gym
You're right about trying to

figure out every last detail. I guess I'm just trying to avoid putting myself on the line. After all I am just back

in the dating scene after 3 years. But then again if I don't ask, I won't know and I will have to ask a woman out

sooner or later.

I got a good look at the ring, it's a wide band, but thin with small empty circles all the

way around. It could be silver or white gold I'm not sure and she doesn't have any other rings as just plain

jewelry on her fingers.

What's funny with me is, I don't always do well under pressure or on the spot. If

I've met someone through a friend or at work let's say and it's someone I see either a couple times a week or

everyday, I won't have a problem asking them out.

But if it's someone that I have only spoken to twice, and

don't know their name, I tend to be more nervous which is normal I guess. Normally w/o over analizing the

situation, I try to learn as much as I can about the woman. If she lives at home, with friends or her BOYFRIEND. If

she says she lives with her boyfriend I move on and I'm safe. Other wise I try to learn more about them and see

what their situation is prior to asking them out for a drink.

Toungue



Did anyone here ever stop to

think that maybe the chick is just fine, and Sigfreed is the one with the problems?
The only problem I

have is I am now totally new once again to the dating scene after having been with one woman for 3 years and it's

always tough.

As for this girl, I told you what she does, how she acts and so on. %80 or more of her life is the

gym and that includes a large portion of her personal life as well. She feeds off of attention that men give her.



Sir Louis


Sounds like you've practically wrapped it up. Just initiate a friendly date, the situation

should steadily escalate from there. If you are unsure how to be more direct, just say, "Hi, you seem very cool, if

you are free Friday, would you like to [insert]?"
Pretty much did. It think I'm going to see what's

happening with the juice bar girl instead as there will be no cultural interferance.


The word you're

looking for is narcissistic personality disorder, a lesser form of psychopathy. You might find

Sam Vaknin's (http://samvak.tripod.com/) literature on NPD very interesting. I was in denial with my ex

for a long time, and this was an invaluable resource to at least understanding the mechanisms behind the way she

was. I'd say it was more of a grieving process than anything. She could very well have this. But I know she

certainly has self-esteem issues, other wise she wouldn't need sooo much attention and sooo much male attention.

Most people I dated and they were very attractive, didn't flirt and want sooo much male attention. Then at the same

time she wants the big bucks from a man.

Not what I want in a woman.

Gegogi


Isn't that a real

stretch, even for armchair psychoanalysis, when behavioral observations are based on forum messages and hearsay?

There's another side to this story--her side--and I bet it's an extremely different perspective
You are

probably right that she has a totally different perspective. But the way she acts, flaunts herself around the gym,

flirts with everyone and has many men of all ages following her around says a lot about her character.

If she's

not the way many of us guys at the gym think she is a c@#k teazer, (no offense ladies).

I

wouldn't want to have someone like that as a steady girlfriend. I want someone with more self respect than that. I

want someone who is satisfied with the attention I give her and doesn't need to get extra from other men.



MobleyC57


:box: It's been known to happen! :box:
Well you guys are wrong about me if you

think that. As I said I've never dealt with anyone such as this.

In all the past dating and sexual encounters

I've had with women I've dated and been with, it was much smoother than this.

I'd meet someone I like, or

they'd bump into me. We'd get chatting, and if it was someone I'd see regularly we'd chat exchange personal info

about our lives and then I'd ask them out for a drink or they'd ask me out. But the majority of the time I'd ask

them out. I've never dated or been with anyone who played this many head games or needed sooo much attention from

males and if she didn't get it that day, she'd be in a bad mood.

There is nothing wrong with me. All my other

dating experiences and new meetings have been much simpler. Yes I've dated ppl who have played hard to get but it

only dragged on for a few weeks to a month not 3 or 4 months followed by signs of interest after only 4 months like

with this Arab gym hottie.

She is a conceited one I can assure you on that. And I don't need nor want to be

with someone like that.

I don't play head games, if I like someone and we get along and have had some

meaningful conversations, I will ask them out plain and simple. I have not had that with this Arab hottie. Too much

confusion and mixed signals. One day she flirts with me, the next she totally blows me off and ignores me. And it's

been going on such as this for awhile now.

Too much for me, I'm moving on.

My next question is it

appropriate to come right out to a woman you've spoken to a few times and thought there could be something if she

has a boyfriend? Or is it better to just ask them for a drink?

B/c I've been in a few situations where I've

asked out a girl for a drink and met her at the bar or coffee shop, and either her boyfriend shows up or he meets

her there after I arrive and I'm left saying to myself WTF? I asked you out and you bring your boyfriend and don't

tell me. And no it's was never someone there to observe me like her brother. It actually was her boyfriend.



That's a screwed up situation.

[TexasHoldem22]

here is an advice from a

guy who has dates/gone out with more middle eastern girl you've probably seen(I'm middle eastern origin),,, DON't

EVER DATE a middle eastern girl(go one night stand with them) but NEVER DATE ONE. They'll rip you off and once you

come to yourself you find out not just your wallet but your bank acount is empty.lol
they're awsoem girls, i love

them, but no one has taught them to spend a peny when they're out with a guy...

cheers,

[Holmes]

Our hypothetical

girl offers us a wealth of possibilities in either direction.... and like Kurosawa's film Rashomon, every

participant has his or her own inner movie of what the truth is...

Time to consult the ghost!

[Sigfreed]

TexasHoldem22


here

is an advice from a guy who has dates/gone out with more middle eastern girl you've probably seen(I'm middle

eastern origin),,, DON't EVER DATE a middle eastern girl(go one night stand with them) but NEVER DATE ONE. They'll

rip you off and once you come to yourself you find out not just your wallet but your bank acount is

empty.lol
they're awsoem girls, i love them, but no one has taught them to spend a peny when they're out with a

guy...

cheers,
Where are you from originally? I hope you haven't taken any offense to what I've

said. So far from what I read in your reply, you may actually agree with me that this girl is probably out for the

big bucks.

You say go for one night stands with them? Won't her brothers come and beat you up for screwing

their sister over like that? A couple of other members here said they've dated mid easter women, and their brothers

attacked them when they broke up?


Anyone what do you guys think about this situation here that I'm quoting

myself on
B/c I've been in a few situations where I've asked out a girl for a drink and met her at the bar

or coffee shop, and either her boyfriend shows up or he meets her there after I arrive and I'm left saying to

myself WTF? I asked you out and you bring your boyfriend and don't tell me. And no it's was never someone there to

observe me like her brother. It actually was her boyfriend.

That's a screwed up situation.


TexasHoldem22? Belgareth? Wood Elf? MobleyC57? Anyone?

Why would a girl knowingly accept to meet you for a

drink and them come/have her boyfriend meet with you?

[CptKipling]

Who cares? I would have moved

on at that stage.

If she wants to explain then that's up to her, but I'm past caring by that point.

[MOBLEYC57]

Anyone what do

you guys think about this situation here that I'm quoting myself on
TexasHoldem22? Belgareth? Wood Elf?

MobleyC57? Anyone?

Why would a girl knowingly accept to meet you for a drink and them come/have her boyfriend

meet with you?
1 - You're in serious LJBF land, and/or she's really wants you to know it!
2 - She's

trying to make someone jealous.
3 - She's smoking that imported crack.
4 - You've found yourself attracted to a

monster!
5 - She's really from my area, and has no clue!

Run! Run far! Run fast!:run:

[Sigfreed]

MobleyC57


1 -

You're in serious LJBF land, and/or she's really wants you to know it!
2 - She's trying to make someone

jealous.
3 - She's smoking that imported crack.
4 - You've found yourself attracted to a monster!
5 - She's

really from my area, and has no clue!

Run! Run far! Run fast!:run:
Well number one is out of the

question b/c she never told me she had a boyfriend or was married so I was just going on my business asking the

girl/woman out.

In some a couple of these situations I've been in, the answer has usually been number 2 and/or

number 4.

Last summer when I was still close to my girlfriend I had 2 girls in their mid 20's ask me out, and a

sexy older woman who came straight out and said she wanted to go for a drink and see where it would lead.

And I

told all 3 straight up that I had a girlfriend. LOL now I'm kicking myself in the ass for turning them down

considering I haven't met anyone new since I mutually ended the relationship in Febuary.

CptKipling




Who cares? I would have moved on at that stage.

If she wants to explain then that's up to her, but I'm past

caring by that point.
Well if it's a female you really like you will be caring why she brings her

boyfriend on what you made clear a date.

I will never understand why some women play such immature games and

waste ppl's time?

I don't play games. I Know for sure that something is there I will ask them out.

[surfs_up]

now picture you

asking a cute girl out and then bringing your girlfriend.... conjures up... either you're hinting at a threesome or

you're a hopeless wacko or you're a hopeless wacko hinting at threesome.... confusing signals to say the least,

and very tacky behavior... best to avoid all curveball games unless you feel like being the dog who plays fetch... a

major waste of time and energy, sanity too.

[Sigfreed]

surfs_Up


now picture

you asking a cute girl out and then bringing your girlfriend.... conjures up... either you're hinting at a

threesome or you're a hopeless wacko or you're a hopeless wacko hinting at threesome.... confusing signals to say

the least, and very tacky behavior... best to avoid all curveball games unless you feel like being the dog who plays

fetch... a major waste of time and energy, sanity too.
That's why I'm giving this Arabic gym hottie a

taste of her own medicine and I'm ignoring her for a little while. I ignored her today, and I still saw her looking

at me but no contact or conversing.

[Bigman808]

Ya know man, I'm still kinda

amazed that this thread has not been shot down by some angry member with a shotgun. Actually, I think a few of you

have tried, but we seem to have one tough son of a bitch on our hands. Sig, I honestly think that you need to make

up your mind as to what you want this hellhole of a 'relationship' to become. If you want sex, ignoring her ass

isn't going to make that happen. If you want to be friends with a hot chick (many good things can come out of

that, as hot women know other hot women), ignoring her isn't going to do much good. If you want to seem like a

confused, utterly senseless wackjob, then ignoring her is the way to go.

Honestly, Mobley, I think they're both

smoking that imported crack! ;-)

[Gegogi]

"That's why I'm giving

this Arabic gym hottie a taste of her own medicine and I'm ignoring her for a little while. I ignored her today,

and I still saw her looking at me but no contact or conversing.

I hate to say it, but I don't think

that tactic will faze, sting or motivate her one iota. Plus, it's unmanly and immature to engage such games once

beyond high school. If she's that hot, she's spoiled and has her pick of dozens of mens in waiting.

I had

a cat that loved to catch birds, scare the shit out of them and release them. Just as they gained freedom he pounced

on them again. After a few dozen torturings he bored and killed them, leaving their lifeless but fully intact body

on my porch. Perhaps Ms Babylon merely enjoys teasing her "prey" to hone skills and amuse herself. I'm a little

shamed to admit it, but I enjoy teasing women I have to intention of pursuing. It's fun. If you take it too far it

can become mean spirited and cruel. However, in your case, you appear to be her partner in crime...

[wood elf]

If he is telling the truth, I

think he should forget about her altogether. Wasting time with such a crazy sounding woman will not ever do more

than confuse and upset him to no avail. Go find a nice lady who does not wish to play dumb games. This one is not

worth the trouble he has put into it already.

I do wonder though if this is real. The longer he talks of her the

less real it sounds to me, the more silly the situation becomes. Do people really spend so much time like this? It

sounds more like something from a television drama show.

I am not trying to offer insult only speaking questions

I think many have who are reading this.

[Sigfreed]

If he is

telling the truth, I think he should forget about her altogether. Wasting time with such a crazy sounding woman will

not ever do more than confuse and upset him to no avail. Go find a nice lady who does not wish to play dumb games.

This one is not worth the trouble he has put into it already.

I do wonder though if this is real. The longer he

talks of her the less real it sounds to me, the more silly the situation becomes. Do people really spend so much

time like this? It sounds more like something from a television drama show.

I am not trying to offer insult only

speaking questions I think many have who are reading this.
I don't lie. If you don't believe me, I will

give you the address to my gym and you can come and see for yourself. Better yet, I could even take a picture of her

discreetly with my camera phone, but probably not a good idea. I have been nothing but truthful about this matter, I

wouldn't have written this much and wasted my time, or anyone else's.

It just took me awhile to realize what

type of person she really is. I personally need someone who is down to earth, passionate, fun, outgoing and doesn't

care what other ppl think about her even if she is attractive.

IMO this Arabic gym hottie is not this person.

Listen to Texasholdem22, he is of Mid Eastern descent and has dated Mid Eastern women.

Gegogi


I hate

to say it, but I don't think that tactic will faze, sting or motivate her one iota. Plus, it's unmanly and

immature to engage such games once beyond high school. If she's that hot, she's spoiled and has her pick of dozens

of mens in waiting.

I had a cat that loved to catch birds, scare the shit out of them and release them. Just as

they gained freedom he pounced on them again. After a few dozen torturings he bored and killed them, leaving their

lifeless but fully intact body on my porch. Perhaps Ms Babylon merely enjoys teasing her "prey" to hone skills and

amuse herself. I'm a little shamed to admit it, but I enjoy teasing women I have to intention of pursuing. It's

fun. If you take it too far it can become mean spirited and cruel. However, in your case, you appear to be her

partner in crime...
I agree about my tatic. I am not a game player, but she has put me into this position

by playing these highschool games with me. And I don't like it b/c it makes me feel like a kid.

As for the bird

catching cat you described, I think you described this Arab gym hottie to a T exactly. A few other men in the gym I

know described her in a similar manner. Yesterday this guy in his mid 20's who I saw following her around last

week, kept going out of his way to walk by her while she was on the treadmill just so he could talk to her. Instead

of working out, he found a reason to go and talk to her and I could tell he thought he was all that b/c he was

interacting with her.

Never will I be that guy especially to someone who plays games like this one does.



Both of you are right especially Wood Elf, I need someone more down to earth. IMO this woman is a wanna be

material girl. She has some fancy designer outfits, but she drives either a Honda Accord or Toyota Camery. I

would've thought she'd be driving a BMW, Volvo, or Mercedes LOL :D

[belgareth]

I don't lie.


Hate to disapoint you but everybody lies. The difference is the magnitude and intent of the lie. Anybody

who doesn't believe that, try telling your boss what you think of his kids or your girlfriend what you really think

of her mother.

Wood Elf is right. It is hard to believe anybody would waste so much energy on this girl. There

are far too many fine women running around to waste time on what appears to be a loony tune.

[chicago]

and than porky the pig said to

this thread . bob eat,bob eat, bob eat, "thats all

folks"
________
WELLBUTRIN LAWSUIT

SETTLEMENTS (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

[MOBLEYC57]

It is hard to

believe anybody would waste so much energy on this girl. There are far too many fine women running around to waste

time on what appears to be a loony tune.
Come on people. :POKE: Has everyone been soooo lucky as to NOT

fall for someone that's not worth your time? :blink: Sounds like people are not understanding what it's like to

get your brain back once you're hooked. It's pure hell getting out of attractions ..... TWILIGHT

ZONE! :frustrate

[chicago]

sigfreed , where is this gym

located at and whats the name of it. to prove you are not a lier give the info

out.
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Tiger4]

IMO this Arabic

gym hottie is not this person. Listen to Texasholdem22, he is of Mid Eastern descent and has dated Mid Eastern

women.

Arab women! Do you speak any Arabic? The next time you see her say: Kayfa Haaluki? "how are you

doing?" or if you are feeling a little bold, say yaa Habibati... anti jamila jiddan ilyaum! "oh my love... you are

very beautiful today".

Since I speak Arabic well, I generally get good responses from them but they are

relatively rare around here. I always seem to impress them when I speak flawless Arabic. They will blush like

little school girls when a do.

[esk6969]

Ya know man,

I'm still kinda amazed that this thread has not been shot down by some angry member with a shotgun. Actually, I

think a few of you have tried, but we seem to have one tough son of a bitch on our hands. Tried, but in

vain. It just....won't.....DIE ALREADY!!!

So, here is my *new* suggestion to Sig. Print off this thread. All

(now 5) pages. Take it to HBarabicgymhottie, and hand it to her, and let her read it. At the end, write a question

like "Would you like to go out with me Y/N? (Circle one)."

No, it won't get you laid, but I *absolutely 100%

guarantee* that it will get a reaction out of her, of some sort. Then, come back here and report on your results.

No, it won't kill this thread, but at least it would make it somewhat interesting again.....:rofl:

[Sigfreed]

belgareth


Hate to

disapoint you but everybody lies. The difference is the magnitude and intent of the lie. Anybody who doesn't

believe that, try telling your boss what you think of his kids or your girlfriend what you really think of her

mother.

Wood Elf is right. It is hard to believe anybody would waste so much energy on this girl. There are far

too many fine women running around to waste time on what appears to be a loony tune.
Well this is all to

real. And it's something that I hope none of you have to face with a woman even though I'm sure many of you

have.

As for wasting time on her, on the contrary, I actually haven't spent as much time on her as it looks.

I'm mainly just trying to understand what her game is and why she's involved me in her game. As I said I don't

care if I ever see her again, she's done nothing for me. Just confused the hell out of me. But there hasn't been

much time wasted at all. Just a few hours talking with you guys and friends about her and what her game is.



chicago


and than porky the pig said to this thread . bob eat,bob eat, bob eat, "thats all folks"


As I said I'm moving onto someone more down to earth


sigfreed , where is this gym located at

and whats the name of it. to prove you are not a lier give the info out.
LOL she's really not worth

anyone's time especially yours. I wouldn't want you to waste your time away from work or school, going through

customs, your money on airfair/hotel/gym membership/ taking her out just to ATTEMPT to prove a point.

Tiger4




Arab women! Do you speak any Arabic? The next time you see her say: Kayfa Haaluki? "how are you doing?" or

if you are feeling a little bold, say yaa Habibati... anti jamila jiddan ilyaum! "oh my love... you are very

beautiful today".

Since I speak Arabic well, I generally get good responses from them but they are relatively

rare around here. I always seem to impress them when I speak flawless Arabic. They will blush like little school

girls when a do.
The girl we've been discussing is Arabic, Lebanese I believe. TexasHolem22 is also of

Arabic descent and he advised me I shouldn't try to date this one as she will be after my dinero.

So far from

the way I see her carry herself, she thinks she's better than everyone else, material things are important to her,

and she is a c^ck teazer who plays head games.

I'd love to snap a photo of her, but I wouldn't feel right

doing such a thing.

I've spent a few hours on her attempting to figure her out with no luck so I'm moving on.

I apologize for spending the time here. In the beginning of the thread I thought there was something once I let her

be around me while wearing Chikara, but in this case I don't even think mones will help us with her. LOL :D

[tounge]

If he is telling

the truth, I think he should forget about her altogether. Wasting time with such a crazy sounding woman will not

ever do more than confuse and upset him

I do wonder though if this is real. The longer he talks of her the

less real it sounds to me, the more silly the situation becomes. Do people really spend so much time like this? It

sounds more like something from a television drama show.




A beacon of truth for a

troubled youngin. On the other hand, I wonder if Tallmackey is back to torment the forum:D .

[chicago]

sigfreed, if you asked her out

in the beginning , you would have got all your answers. and save your self some headach. me , i always put the

chicks on the spot, if they say yes we start going out, when chicks say no, i always think it happened for a good

reason. god saved me from something bad.

sigfreed, don't hope or let girls put hope in you. hope is a very

dangerous thing.
las vegas is built on hope. people hope to win the jackpot, but end up losing everything.



anyway i got some amazing results (really strong sexual hits) from 1 spray of te and 1 spray of perception.
i

highly recommend that combo..
________
Bmw E60 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_E60)

[MOBLEYC57]

anyway i got some

amazing results (really strong sexual hits) from 1 spray of te and 1 spray of perception.
i highly recommend that

combo..
More! More! More! Tell us more! :POKE:

[chicago]

MOBLEYC57 (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/member.php?u=54) i will start a new thread about that combo , i

have to go to work now

later
________
Body science (http://bodyscience.ws/)

[MOBLEYC57]

MOBLEYC57 (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/member.php?u=54) i will start a new thread about

that combo , i have to go to work now

laterHurry back, ya hear!!? :thumbsup:

Tater!:run:

[Rbt]

2 cents:

In my life I have met

all kinds of people. And indeed some situations seem to come right out of TV soap operas and sit-coms. There are

extremes all over the place.

And what's wrong with checking out women (or men, or anybody) with an extreme

behavior pattern, if it intrigues you? Again, I've met some odd folks. Honest people, deceivers, introverts,

extroverts, leaders, and followers. I've been in public-contact jobs most of my days, and believe me, there are

*all* sorts out there... Just don't get hung up on it, unless you're a psychology major... like I was...

[Tiger4]

Tiger4




The girl we've been discussing is Arabic, Lebanese I believe. TexasHolem22 is also of Arabic descent and he

advised me I shouldn't try to date this one as she will be after my dinero.

So far from the way I see her carry

herself, she thinks she's better than everyone else, material things are important to her, and she is a c^ck teazer

who plays head games.

I'd love to snap a photo of her, but I wouldn't feel right doing such a thing.




She might be a virgin. With the way you described her, she sounds like very high maintenance.



You're doing the right thing by avoiding her. Oh, I'm sure she's probably very attractive but her attitude

spoils it. You can snap a picture of her and then email me the picture. If you PM me I'll give you my email

address.

[chicago]

hey sigfreed, today were i work

two girls walk in and started shopping. i was wearing 1 spray te and 1 spray perception cover with dolce & gabbana.

i walk up to them and offered some help and started chatting alot. kind of cocky and funny. so i ask the cute one

whats your name , she said nadia, i told nadia i have to go help other customers, anyway make a long story short,

i ask for her number and got it.


i will keep you guys post on what ever comes out from

this.
________
Ffm footjob (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/543/footjob/videos/1)

[surfs_up]

'cause in the long run social skills count for a lot. The last thing you want is a needy

narcissist who demands that all of your attention as well as the attention of everyone else, be focused on her. A

girl with social skills knows how to focus on other people and make them feel important, at least how to make them

feel recognized as a human being. If you find a beautiful girl who knows how to be other focused then you've hit

gold.

[oscar]

Sigfreed,

This is bullshit. This

thread started on the pretense of being pheromnone related then went for a little while on a tangent related to

attraction, but now it just appears to be about posting.
Over twenty members have given their opinions which seem

to be either "forget the girl", or "find your balls and ask her out", and you are no closer to doing either than you

were over a week ago.
As if this weren't bad enough you continue to start other related threads on the same

subject.

This thread is going to Open Discussion.

Oscar

[Holmes]

This thread is going

to Open Discussion.

How about the morgue?

[tounge]

Sigfreed,

This

is bullshit.

Oscar



It took over 140 posts, but we finally have the correct

response.:)

[Pancho1188]

It took over 140

posts, but we finally have the correct response.:)
Oscar is Love-Scentese for "tact"...

In one

culture, it means, "Don't make me break my foot off of your ass!" I believe that's a slang term.

[belgareth]

Some people are less likely

than others to take subtle hints and warnings seriously.

[chicago]

oscar, kill the power, kill the

power.
________
korean girl Cams (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/asian-girls/)

[MOBLEYC57]

anyway i got some

amazing results (really strong sexual hits) from 1 spray of te and 1 spray of perception.
i highly recommend that

combo..

MOBLEYC57 (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/member.php?u=54) i will start a

new thread about that combo , i have to go to work now

later
Chicagogogogoan, have you done up the

rough draft yes? :blink:

Still curious 'bout dat mix. :wave: :drunk: :wave:

[chicago]

check out the new thread about

my mix mobley
________
Cheap glass bongs (http://glassbongs.org/)

[MOBLEYC57]

check out the new thread about my mix mobley
New thread? :think: You did post

it on L-S forum, didn't you, Chaicagoan? :blink: If you did, and I've looked all under, you've hidden it

well! :thumbsup:

Still, for making me look for something that wasn't there ... :trout:!



Starting your Monday with a dead tuna side your dome. Yuck! :rofl:

[DumLuc]

You seriously need some

professional counseling, Sigfreed. You posts are an obvious cry for help, and the kind of amature feedback your

getting from the forum is only adding to your problem.

Your problem is serious enough that only a skilled

professional will be able to help you, and it won't be an easy or quick fix.

Of course you will undoubtedly

remain in a state of denial and ignore my advice;though all one can do is try to help.

Yes, it will be scary for

you to go face to face with a professional thearapist, but it is something you must realize will be of benefit to

you in the long run;whereas the type of psudeo threapy your receiving from the forum, by airing your dirty laundry

on line to a bunch of strangers, only serves to perpetuate your problem.

I know, already your dismissing my

advice, yet go back to the beginning of this thread and read what you've posted. Be objective, read it from an

outsiders point of view and if your honest with yourself you will realize that you need HELP, professional help and

right away.

[Pancho1188]

You seriously

need some professional counseling, Sigfreed. You posts are an obvious cry for help, and the kind of amature feedback

your getting from the forum is only adding to your problem.

Your problem is serious enough that only a skilled

professional will be able to help you, and it won't be an easy or quick fix.

Of course you will undoubtedly

remain in a state of denial and ignore my advice;though all one can do is try to help.

Yes, it will be scary for

you to go face to face with a professional thearapist, but it is something you must realize will be of benefit to

you in the long run;whereas the type of psudeo threapy your receiving from the forum, by airing your dirty laundry

on line to a bunch of strangers, only serves to perpetuate your problem.

I know, already your dismissing my

advice, yet go back to the beginning of this thread and read what you've posted. Be objective, read it from an

outsiders point of view and if your honest with yourself you will realize that you need HELP, professional help and

right away.
If everyone who had a girl problem needed professional help...well, then, we'd all be

committed. :lol:

He's just venting frustration (he can't get what he wants) and helplessness (there's

nothing he can do about it). Let him be. As far as comparing the amateur advice on this forum to the professional

advice of a therapist, a therapist would not approach the subject of giving him advice on how to pick up girls, so I

do not think they deserve a comparison. A therapist would, however, help people to learn to be confident in

themselves, handle their inner problems, and accept the things they cannot change while taking strides to improve

what they can.

Not everyone takes rejection well, but that doesn't directly result in the need for therapy per

se.

The internet allows us to vent and whine about problems we normally wouldn't bother other people with at

all. It's an interesting new coping mechanism until we get over something...or someone. The greatest part about

it is everyone else chooses whether or not to suffer the torture of "listening to it" (aka reading it)...I

personally feel that anyone who takes the time to complain about a thread forgets that they chose to read it in the

first place.

[oscar]

The greatest

part about it is everyone else chooses whether or not to suffer the torture of "listening to it" (aka reading

it)...I personally feel that anyone who takes the time to complain about a thread forgets that they chose to read it

in the first place.
Pancho,

You forget that there's a handful of us who HAVE to read these posts.



Try this: Go back to the first page and start reading every word of every post as though you had never read them

before. Don't forget to carefully scan every quote as you go along because this user arrived on the forum with

links appearing in seemingly random words throughout the parts of his posts that were quotes of other user's posts.


If by the time that you've finished you're not ready to pass the hat and contribute generously to get this guy a

Dr. Kevorkian gift certificate, then I'll send your name along to my buddy in the Sistine Chapel, because you're

Pope material pal!

Oscar ;)

[Pancho1188]

Oscar,

You must read

everything to ensure the relevancy of the posts, and it is your job to regulate and step in with a "Hey, that's

enough," when appropriate (and you and all the mods do a fantastic job, by the way). Therefore, you are exempt from

my comment. My apologies if I implied that you and others who must read them were included.

[belgareth]

The other part you leave out is

that he asked for advice, asked for opinions. Oscar maybe didn't go far enough, the guy has some serious issues and

could really use professional help to address them.

[Rbt]

Well. if nothing else this thread

got a lot of people involved in discussions (six pages worth so far I see...). And if it is all BS, well, it ain't

much different than the current load of crud on TV. The sad parts would be, if it is BS, it may have been a colossal

waste of time for those who tried to offer sincere help, and the rudeness of falsehood and lies.

Can you say

"Survivor," American Idol," "The Swan," or any of those other "reality" shows... Yech. Barf.

Fool me once, shame

on you.
Fool me more than that once, shame on me too.