Immune to ODing?

[satyrboy]

Alright. Are there

folks who just can't OD? I've been trying, just to see what kind of outer limits there are.
Today, over the

course of 12 hours I've applied: 4 dabs of NPA, 8 inches of SOE, 10 dabs of WAGG, Half a gel pac(or so) of chikara,

and 4 drops of p10.

Men are pleasant and buddy-like to me. Women are talkative and nice to me. Maybe a little

more flirtatious than normal, but certainly no DIHL or anything like it.

[Icehawk]

Why no OD???? -----> "10 dabs

of WAGG"

[Gegogi]

Yesterday I applied a dozen

sprays of Heat (!), half a gel pack of SOE and covered with Weekend and went to work. Women were super friendly and

usually talked nonstop. No aggression or disputes from men or women. College age women, 18-22, seemed a bit nervous

and twitchy, but older women would not leave me alone. One attractive 40 year old literature professor came in my

office, put on my blazer (!) and sat next to me, constantly touching me and filling my ears with endless babble. She

blew my mind when she lifted up her shirt to wipe her face! Sort of like she wanted me to see her assets. She was

behaving almost as if she was stoned. Normally she is reserved and proper (she's married with a couple kids). I

actually had to gently push her out of my office as I was getting uncomfortable. Still she came after me several

more times later that day. Sort of like a happy puppydog chasing after me. She was missing from work today.

:smite:

[noodlesnspam]

gegogi, u post hits like

they arent even hits to you, like theyre everyday random occurances of women around u. Either you are a super pimp

or where youre at, theres either lack of men or most men around u are ugly relatively speaking to you.

[satyrboy]

Yeah, about the wagg, I don't

od even if I skip the wagg.

[Friendly1]

The SOE would also take the

edge off the NPA. If you really want to OD, stay away from the socially smoothing products like WAGG and Scent of

Eros. They are designed to be very versatile.

Just do something like 6-8 dabs of NPA. If that doesn't make

people edgy, then your natural pheromones AND demeanor may put people so at ease you can get away with the strong

Androstenone signature.

[satyrboy]

Alright,
Sometime in the next

week, I'm gonna do a P10/NPA OD attempt.

[Gegogi]

"gegogi, u post hits like

they arent even hits to you, like theyre everyday random occurances of women around u. Either you are a super pimp

or where youre at, theres either lack of men or most men around u are ugly relatively speaking to

you."

I love to tease and be teased. I enjoyed it before I used pheromones but now I have an edge and

can play the game much more often. The strange and unpredictable behavior I sometimes get is a big plus and highly

entertaining. I think all pheromone users feel the same rush when they get in the groove. Once you start, it's hard

to stop. It's like a kid playing doctor with his little girl friends but also a hobby and obsession. Sort of like

gambling or playing music. I'm not trying to accomplish anything serious or profound (e.g., get a GF or improve a

relationship), but ain't it fun!

As for my looks, my past GFs, including the last 23 and 25 year olds,

thought I was handsome but somewhat of a prettyboy, and wondered at first if I was gay (they quickly found out I

wasn't). I work out daily, am toned but not muscular, dress well (think metromale) and have gotten very good at

charming and enticing ladies. There are plenty of other males around. However, other male faculty are largely bald,

overweight and haven't bought new clothing for 20 years. Most male college students are, well, raw and

unkept--e.g., doggie breath & dirty fingernails. However, I think, while looks do matter, women are largely

attracted to your personality and lifestyle. I pay attention to them, make them laugh and they want to hang out with

me. The pheromones just help them express their true desires. Women with no attraction for me won't twitch one iota

even if I bathe in NPA.

[seduceme]

Masculine attracts feminine.

Try to fit in to their perception of masculinity, be it metromale or badboy leatherwear.

[MOBLEYC57]

Yesterday I

applied a dozen sprays of Heat (!), half a gel pack of SOE and covered with Weekend and went to work. Women were

super friendly and usually talked nonstop. No aggression or disputes from men or women. College age women, 18-22,

seemed a bit nervous and twitchy, but older women would not leave me alone. One attractive 40 year old literature

professor came in my office
What's your office space like, Gegogi? 12 sprays of Heat sounds like a real

punisher!:whip:

[Gegogi]

"Masculine attracts

feminine. Try to fit in to their perception of masculinity, be it metromale or badboy

leatherwear."

I'm not interested in pretending to be anything I'm not. Besides I'm a professional

musician so women expect surprises and deviance. Plus, I don't have any trouble getting women. Most women are

attracted to me because of my artistic lifestyle and mix of feminine and masculine characteristics. I waste a lot of

time pushing away the undesirable ones.

My office is small. About 12 x 12 feet with 12 foot ceiling. So no

vistor escapes my pheromone trap...

[belgareth]

I'm not

interested in pretending to be anything I'm not. Gegogi,

You may have hit on somehting important here!

I've been reading accounts trying to figure out what us older guys have in common. You and I are almost exact

opposites in most ways. I can't play a note to save my life, don't really care much about how I dress and so on.

That one statement defines what we both consistantly do. I wonder how important that attitude is for us?

Any of

you other old farts have an opinion?

[seduceme]

I'm not

interested in pretending to be anything I'm not. Besides I'm a professional musician so women expect surprises and

deviance. Plus, I don't have any trouble getting women. Most women are attracted to me because of my artistic

lifestyle and mix of feminine and masculine characteristics. I waste a lot of time pushing away the undesirable

ones.

My office is small. About 12 x 12 feet with 12 foot ceiling. So no vistor escapes my pheromone

trap...

Dominance is masculine. Dominance in the sense of being awe-inspiring. Youre talking about

base characteristics of feminine/masculine. Im talking about masculine/feminine on a high high level. For example a

man TRYING to be a man with a narrowminded concept of whats masculine defending it instantely with his life is

probably compensating out of insecurities. Being insecure is not masculine nor attractive in general. Since he feels

a need to compensate his masculinity through what he percieves as masculine, he must therefor lack masculinity in

reality.

Nevertheless, masculine attracts feminine, feminine attracts masculine. Otherwise men would be

hooking up with men all the time, and women would be hooking up with women all the time.

[Watcher]

Acting like an everyday occourance

lol

Well there are some of us that get this sort of behaviour day in day out - with pheromones without

pheromones (only cause im bulked up) add the mones and its rub rub a dub and flirt away.

I dont bother

worrying to much unless its leading somewhere - but yes its definete and ive been using mones for 8 years and can

say this stuff works (better for some than others depending on what youre using)

[Iacopo]

I am beginning to think that OD

is a wrong concept.
In fact we apply doses 1000 times higher than those provided from the nature.so if you have

1000 times higher or 1500...it is not much rilevant if opposed to a normal..let's say...a 10 pheromone signature.so

increaseing the amount of pheromones is a way to increase the area of your aura.For example:last saturday i was with

8 friends at a pub.(i had on 12 dabs of te-6"soe-1drop AEm-2dabs wagg-half spray chika.),and i was targeting one

girl,who was unluckyly on the opposite corner of the table in the opposite side.A guy near her(worst than me

objectivly,less interesting,less cool,less guru) was able in 90 minutes to date her.She didn't know i was

interested in her,but the point i am making here,is that he USED my aura that night!in fact i was in a difficult

position to act with her,and so it is very possible that she made a legittimate fault to recognize the source of the

aura since she was interacting more with the other guy,while i had few few chances to speak with her that night.My

theory is that,having on several stuff,i had a very large area around myself,and having no chances to show that that

was my aura,the more able of the situation took the advantage.
ABOUT the MAX OD Satan's effect when people run

away scared..i have another thesis:1-it stinks a lot!so people could run away only for the smell...2-it is

effectivly a HUGE aura!And this could be psicologically OVERWHELMING!using 10 drops of npa is like having 10000 bad

boys concentrated into a 5-10 meters aura!this can be read subconsciously as a total and DECLARED siege of the

personal space of the people in the aura.3-the more you have on,the faster the pheros are recognized!and the larger

your aura is;so it is possible that you will not be recognized as the source of the aura if you act in a different

way from what the aura suggests.But in that space that high amount of none will be perceived as a CLEAR threat.



In few words:
more pheros-->PROS+larger(so more percepible)area.faster perception of the aura.CONS-the larger the

area is,the harder the source is recognized if you act in a social environment.who plays more what the aura

suggests,is identified as the source of the aura(VERY VERY DANGEREOUS INDEED).The "more is better" can really be

better,but i suggest it to you only if you are 1 vs 1,or when you are clearly the coolest guy around.

less

pheros:PROS+more individual aura.the source of the aura is easily discovered.you can use it very well in a social

environment of 1 vs all.when(IF it is noticed...not sure thing...) the source is discovered,you are MR

SMOOTH.ConS-slower perception time of the pheromones.the aura is reduced to your personal space is and can create

some difficulties to be " discovered".

IMO that is the meaning of the pheromone quantity;while the X:Y

proportion means simply WHO you are,not HOW MUCH you are!teorically...you should be able to go around with your

pheromones..and IF they are detected,then the job is done!the really problem in the today world and pheromones is

that there are SOOOO many factors creating problems to smell clearly..smog perfumes clothes..etc!so if you apply

pheromones you should have in mind 3 thing:
1-you need a 1000 times higher dosage to make your aura EVIDENT.
2-you

choose how much large you want your aura(choose your mg dosage).
(with pros and cons)
3-you choose WHO you want to

be(choose the none:rone:nol:etc proportion).
(with pros and cons)
NOTE(4)-If you act EXACTLY as the aura suggests

you should act,the chances of being identified as "the source" are a lot higher.

SOME NICE IDEA:Let's say for

example that none is the macho phero.
if you are a nice guy going to the gym with tons of none on,you will be not

surely detected as the source of that none.But...if you go to classic dance...with a 99% prevalence of

girls...omg..you will be at 99%..even if the pheromones DO NOT MATCH who you really are!be cunning...everything has

a mathemathical background.

[Gegogi]

"Nevertheless, masculine

attracts feminine, feminine attracts masculine. Otherwise men would be hooking up with men all the time, and women

would be hooking up with women all the time."

That's not completely true. Men hookup with men and

women with women all the time. It's more wide spread than you think. I see it every dad burn day. Here in Honolulu

we have an extremely large and visible gay and lesbian population. Hawaiian culture accepts homosexual activity as

normal, unlike many in Western society. I know it sounds odd, but I often have difficulty telling Polynesian male

and females apart.

I have small bone structure and am an artist, so some folk think I'm gay or bi because of

the way I look, not the way I act. I'm actually tuff as nails inside and an extremely confident and self-assured

person. Nevertheless, confidence and dominance have nothing to do with secondary sexual characteristics. Instead,

these are human traits and both men and women of any sexual orientation can have them and still be masculine or

feminine. Likewise, being awe-inspiring on stage on in real life is not masculine or feminine. It's something both

men and women strive for in performing arts or leadership roles.

[Watcher]

Ive found if you be "specific"

with youre targets it ends in failure i prefer the gal that surprosies me and its the unexpected that ends up

happening - spread youre aura around more often if phermones do work for you you should be finding that its

widespread and opens up many doors that would otherwise be shut relationship and sexual experience wise

[seduceme]

That's not

completely true. Men hookup with men and women with women all the time. It's more wide spread than you think. I see

it every dad burn day. Here in Honolulu we have an extremely large and visible gay and lesbian population. Hawaiian

culture accepts homosexual activity as normal, unlike many in Western society. I know it sounds odd, but I often

have difficulty telling Polynesian male and females apart.

Yes, that is called homosexuality. That is

their sexual orientation, and the typical western stereotype of either lesbian or gay displays more characteristics

of the other gender(defined by the masses). However as humans we are not that very distinguishable between one

another genderwise. We are about the same size, same coloration. There are species on this planet where the male is

10 times bigger and 10 times smaller than the female. They also have different colorations etc. So how do we as

humans try to distinguish our gender? Like it or not but people behave DIFFERENTLY when interacting with a person

depending on their gender. Perfect example, a young girl who had a lowpitched voice was 'assumed' to be a boy when

she answered the phone. People talking to her would talk differently meaning in speechstructure, topics, tone etc.

Than when they found out later on that she was really a girl. This is something that exists through our entire life,

sort of like a conditioning process.

Second example, two twin brothers were born. Upon circumsizing one of

the boys had an accident and his genitals were damaged. Doctors and parents consulted and agreed upon on

transforming the boy with damaged goods into a girl(meaning giving him a vagina). Upon growing up the boy was given

wild big crazy toys like monstertrucks and the like. The boy was more wild, loud, etc. The 'girl' was given dolls,

playovens etc and was more reserved and quiet. People meeting these children talked and behaved DIFFERENTLY towards

the child depending on their percieved gender. This gives credit that as humans we condition our children from the

get go on how to behave and interact depending on our percieved gender.

If youre driving and you see a person

walking down the street with shoulderlength hair, a tshirt and some jeans. The first signs of male of female

characteristics you will look for will be visual. Meaning their body, big small, wide hips narrow stomach,

chestarea. Second thing you will look for is the way they move, their walk, is it a typical feminine or typical

masculine walk. Now as you pass this person you will turn your head to try to distinguish facecharacteristics that

are either male or female.

Back in the days men used to work jobs that required great physical effort and

women in professions requiring less physical effort. Women tended to be drawn to jobs where they nurtured and tended

to people and men. Meaning secretaries, nurses, flightattendants etc. Men used to work in managerial positions and

jobs such as construction, lumberjacks etc. However in the last couple of decades we have moved into a more unified

society where its become more accepted to work in professions percieved to be either feminine or masculine

regardless of gender. Females have also gained alot more representation in managerial positions and jobs have been

created where gender doesnt matter(in order to get the job done, meaning both genders are equally effective).



Thus its getting harder to define a person on their gender or sexuality. THIS is what im talking about when

I say that men would be hooking up with men and women with women. If we had NO way to define a person we met on

their gender or sexual oriention and we felt the need to reproduce we would go ahead and try to reproduce regardless

if that person was a male or female. Granted that we cannot reproduce with the same sex that is not the point.



Thus a guy who displays masculinity, meaning he is distinguishing himself as a male will be attractive to a

heterosexual female. The same goes for a girl who is displaying femininity, she will distinguish herself as female

and will be attractive in our eyes. Or do most of us heterosexual guys really get attracted to a girl who behaves,

talks, walks, and looks like a guy?



I have small bone structure and am an artist, so some folk

think I'm gay or bi because of the way I look, not the way I act. I'm actually tuff as nails inside and an

extremely confident and self-assured person. Nevertheless, confidence and dominance have nothing to do with

secondary sexual characteristics. Instead, these are human traits and both men and women of any sexual orientation

can have them and still be masculine or feminine. Likewise, being awe-inspiring on stage on in real life is not

masculine or feminine. It's something both men and women strive for in performing arts or leadership

roles.

Men still have an overall dominance of the leadership positions in the western culture

however. What im talking about is the chichlid effect. There is a species of fish called the chichlid. They are

indistinguishable genderwise. Same size, coloration, no visible differentiating physical attributes(such as breasts,

penis, vagina). So how did scientists figure out which sex the fish was? Both fish were able to display traits such

as aggresiveness, dominance etc. However when it came to sex the MALE would always display agressiveness and

dominance, the female would always display submissiveness.

Now this is fish, and were humans, but i'd like

to argue the same relates to us when it comes to sex. Men are hardwired to be the agressive dominant ones. Why? A

female can have you sexually, but only if she excites you, only if she manages to incite you to sex. She CANNOT

sexually have you if youre not aroused. Men however can have a woman sexually regardless of her arousal. Thus women

are hardwired to be dominated and find it sexually exciting. To confirm this theory i've asked many women

personally on how they would like their 'man' to be. Basically they've all said that he should be the man with

capital m. Take charge, be in control and make no excuses or ask for anything. In addition girls have told me that

the most exciting thing for them is when he takes what he wants. One girl told me she gets her juices flowing when

she sees that 'primal look' on his face like he is 'going to take whats his'.

Now im not saying you

should be a man that physically controls everything your girl does. You shouldnt be abusive either. Most girls have

in addition to this said that 'at the same time I should be able to enjoy my space and freedom'. Thus its

dominance under freedom , if she says no RESPECT IT. Do not force yourself upon her. But dont ask or beg her for it

and then excuse yourself.

[Gegogi]

"Men still have an overall

dominance of the leadership positions in the western culture however."

That's some dissertation. If

tis were 10,000 BC, male brute strength would insure his dominance over females. However, your thesis is

fundamentally flawed in a world where knowledge and ideas are power. Women now have that power and men can no longer

presume dominance over women.

The administration of the college I teach for is mostly female as are a

majority of faculty. Twenty years ago it was the exact opposite. The student body is currently 60% female.

Nationally 54% of all undergraduates are female. The precentage of female graduate students is even higher (sorry I

don't recall the exact figures). The stats indicate this trend will continue to escalate. The point is, due to a

lack of education, fewer and fewer men will be qualified for positions of power in the future. Thus women will

continue to assume traditional male leadership and professional roles at an ever increasing rate. I believe this new

freedow and power has already been translated into the personal lives of women. Sure you can find a few bimbos or

religious zealots willing to be dominated by an undereducated redneck, but the remainder wil be calling the shots in

our society. Male dominance? A quaint concept that peaked during the 19th century. Equality between the sexes? A

failed social experiement of the 1960s and 70s. Female dominance? The future.

[seduceme]

That's some

dissertation. If tis were 10,000 BC, male brute strength would insure his dominance over females. However, your

thesis is fundamentally flawed in a world where knowledge and ideas are power. Women now have that power and men can

no longer presume dominance over women.

The administration of the college I teach for is mostly female as

are a majority of faculty. Twenty years ago it was the exact opposite. The student body is currently 60% female.

Nationally 54% of all undergraduates are female. The precentage of female graduate students is even higher (sorry I

don't recall the exact figures). The stats indicate this trend will continue to escalate. The point is, due to a

lack of education, fewer and fewer men will be qualified for positions of power in the future. Thus women will

continue to assume traditional male leadership and professional roles at an ever increasing rate. I believe this new

freedow and power has already been translated into the personal lives of women. Sure you can find a few bimbos or

religious zealots willing to be dominated by an undereducated redneck, but the remainder wil be calling the shots in

our society. Male dominance? A quaint concept that peaked during the 19th century. Equality between the sexes? A

failed social experiement of the 1960s and 70s. Female dominance? The future.


I cannot do more

than agree, the trend is afterall women gaining more and more managerial and upper 'positions' in any

endeavor.
Men as whole will however have a hard time adapting and transform. I can give more examples to prove

that point if you'd like..

[satyrboy]

Alright, I put on 4 drops of

p10 and 6 dabs of NPA. I covered this with a coupla sprays of Joop What About Adam. This cologne has an unmeasured

quantity of NPA and p10 squirted into an aliquot I put in the atomizer that came with the p10 kit.
No men were

aggressive, no women stripped immediately upon reaching olfactory range.

In general, everyone was polite,

friendly, etc. Some women were a bit flirty, others weren't. My wife attacked me on the couch shortly after our

daughter went to sleep.

Maybe I'm just none-less and the extra doesn't bother anyone...?

[Gegogi]

"Maybe I'm just none-less

and the extra doesn't bother anyone...?"

I have a similar problem--am 'none-less--and can literally

swim in NPA without ill-effect. Thank God for 'none replacement therapy!

[CptKipling]

I think the behavior of the

wearer also has an effect on OD reactions.

[Watcher]

it amplifies reactions to youre

own behaviours from other people

[satyrboy]

Yeah, I think I project a

pretty laid back, easy going demeanor. So, like Gregorri, I can apply a lot of none.
I'm curious if there's a

limit though. At some point when it's convenient, I think I'll go with a tremendous NPA/P10 dose.
I have to

say I like the p10 though. It really doesn't smell much at all.

[belgareth]

it amplifies

reactions to youre own behaviours from other people
That makes sense. People say I'm a bit intense, never

stop moving. I can OD on pretty small amounts of none.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, I tend to agree with most

of the OD conclusions on this thread. I'll summarize my positions as follows:

Personal pheromone

signature: Except regarding male/female, homosexual/heterosexual, and MHC differences, it's total bunk. People

really don't produce that much pheromones of the type that most people apply exogenously (e.g., 'none, 'nol), so

if you count the endogenous pheromones in your pheromone signature as a proportion of the total given the exogenous

ones, it's probably not even significant. Maybe (at overdose levels) something like 1% of your total 'mones, and

maybe less. What I think people often mislabel "personal pheromone signature" I consider to actually be my next

topic for discussion:

Behavior: People vary a lot in day-to-day behavior. Some

people have aggressive-seeming mannerisms, some have gentle ones. Quick examples of ways in which behavior can vary:

frequency of palms-up (compromising, friendly, open) gestures vs. palms-down gestures (strong, aggressive, closed);

word choice, topic choice, facial expressions, eye contact, pupil dilation, extension of neck, distance at which one

stands from one another, etc. You get the idea. Now, for some thought-experiment BS mathematical modeling: Let's

say that every action has a value "x" which describes how aggressive/intimidating or friendly that action is.

Friendly actions are closer to one, and aggressive actions are closer to infinity. This value "x" is fixed for any

given action, and varies with each action. Something like saying "You're a very nice person" might have an x value

around 1.02, wearing a black leather jacket might have an x value of 4, and punching someone spontanously would

probably have an x value of a couple hundred thousand. Or something. Now let's say we have another variable "y",

and y represents the overall impression that an action gives. Now, if you're using a lot of none, that's like

having y=x^2 or something: it makes already aggressive actions seem a lot more aggressive. Wearing a leather jacket

would go from x=4 to y=16, for example. However, it wouldn't really change friendly actions: Saying "You're a very

nice person" only goes from x=1.02 to y=1.0404. So if you're only doing friendly things and looking friendly looks,

it'll probably be pretty hard to OD on the behavioral effects of 'none--at least, according to this bullsh!t model

I made up off the top of my head at 1:30am. As for 'nol, we might model it like this: y=x/2 + 1. So wearing a

leather jacket on 'nol might go from an intimidation factor of x=4 to y=3. Wearing a leather jacket on both 'nol

and 'none might be something like either y=(x/2 + 1)^2 or y=(x^2)/2 + 1. Doesn't really matter. The point is, for

most intents and purposes, pheromones really only amplify or diminish the way people will perceive certain behaviors

of yours. (Part of me screams at that explanation because it's ultimately completely wrong, but it's a lot less

wrong than the way most people think about it, and the correct way is too easy to misunderstand.) This model could

easily be extended to be dose specific by changing the (^2) and (/2) parts to (^d) and (/d), where "d" is some

dose-specific variable. But who would want to do that? The models are silly enough as they are.



Pheromones stink: I think that most of the typical 'none OD reactions (i.e., people running away) are from

the stink, not from the physiological/psychological effects. A strong cover scent has seemed to eliminate that

problem for me. As for psychological overdoses, it seems to me that they can occur in three conditions: first, if

the wearer acts too agressive/intimidating, thereby allowing the amplification effect (as described above) to cause

an overdose of intimidation; second, if the wearer does not wear a good cover scent, the subject may be frightened

when s/he experiences unexplained psychological changes (it's one thing if you notice that the smell of the person

next to you makes you really really horny; but if you suddenly get horny for no apparent reason (surely not the ugly

not-good-smelling guy sitting next to you!), you might get frightened and suspect date-rape drugs... and flee); and

third, if the subject is shy or uncomfortable with his/her sexuality, s/he may get uncomfortable and flee whenever

any overly strong sexual feelings are felt.

I'm a really nice, chill guy--5'8", boyish good looks,

cheerful and smily--and as long as I wear a good cover, I've been unable to OD as well. I once put on 20 dabs of

TE, then spilled about .5ml on my hands and the floor, cleaned that up, wiped my hands on myself, put on some

essential oil cover, and went to the store. I noticed that despite my cover I still stank, but people didn't scream

and run. Maybe that's just because I live in Portland, and there are a lot of stinky potheads and treehuggers here

who haven't showered in years. Still.

I remember the time I went out with 8-10 drops of AE and some SOE. I

ended up sitting in a coffee shop for about 20 minutes, then a really cute (and, incidentally, extraordinarily

intelligent) 22-ish girl sits down next to me. At first, I'm trying to count the minutes until she gets up and

runs. We end up sitting next to each other for about four hours total, and one of those we spend jabbering. So much

for overdoses. I remember particularly strongly when she called her boyfriend (and got his answering machine) on her

cell phone: her voice got all breathey and high-pitched. She herself was surprised. I noticed after she heard how

she was sounding, she tried to control it and sound a little more normal, but she didn't do a very good job. It was

really cute--and caused more than a little guilt--to hear her voice shake as she told her boytoy to call her "as

soon as you get this message." She was quite a bit edgy, though, but it was a nervous-edgy, not a frightened-edgy.

She opened up quickly and thoroughly once we began to talk, and much (though not all) of the edge wore off then.



However: I have seen some research which, while not on pheromones, may suggest that humans may have a

mechanism for detecting unrealistic pheromone levels. See

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20050101/note17.a

sp (http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20050101/note17.asp) ("Paper wasps object to dishonest face spots"). It's a bit of a stretch, but the same evolutionary

argument for paper wasps would also apply to humans and pheromones. Of course, evolutionary arguments are

fundamentally and generally pretty weak: What does it matter what would make sense if it were the case? Isn't it

more important what the case actually is?

Yeah, WAGG definitely helps reduce the 'none OD intimidation

effects. However, I've noticed a few occasions on which 'none has seemed to make people forget what they were

saying the moment the 'mones hit their nostrils, and WAGG doesn't seem to stop this.

[seduceme]

Well the thing about the wasps

was visual stimuli, not pheromones.

Remember highschool, the nerds? the bullied? What if one of them one day

came to school in the coolest fuckin slick clothes, behaving like he was 'THE shit'. Would all the cool guys get

upset? Probably, would they try to put him back in place? Probably.

Its more of a visual socialranking thing

than it is about pheromones. Just my 2 cents..

[Friendly1]

My wife

attacked me on the couch shortly after our daughter went to sleep.
So, like, this happens regularly?

[satyrboy]

I wish! No, my point was I got

all the benefits and no drawback. My wife is not usually spontaneous about sex, and usually prefers the bedroom.

[wood elf]

I wish! No, my

point was I got all the benefits and no drawback. My wife is not usually spontaneous about sex, and usually prefers

the bedroom.
No matter what anybody else says, too much none on some people is repulsive! I do not know

what the reason is but can tell you from experience that it is true. It may be associated with your behavoir

patterns or your natural signature but until we measure it we cannot be sure.

The bedroom is nice too but there

are so many other fun places. On a boat moving in time with the waves or outdoors under the stars.

[Gegogi]

"Remember highschool, the

nerds? the bullied? What if one of them one day came to school in the coolest fuckin slick clothes, behaving like he

was 'THE shit'. Would all the cool guys get upset? Probably, would they try to put him back in place?

Probably."

Sadly this is too true. I knew a girl in high school with an eagle-lke nose. She was

attractive otherwise but everyone called her eagle beak just to be mean. Over the Summer she got a nose job, new car

and wardrobe. Looked amazingly good but many still called her eagle beak and actually became meaner, trying to make

her cry whenever possible.


"No matter what anybody else says, too much none on some people is

repulsive! I do not know what the reason is but can tell you from experience that it is true. It may be associated

with your behavoir patterns or your natural signature but until we measure it we cannot be

sure."

True, but the point is you must experiment to find what works for you. Even if you could

measure the amount of 'none if would be impossible to accurately factor in behavior, natural pheromones and the

situation. I'm one of those that can wear a lot of 'none with no ill-effects. Probably a combination of my

ethnicity (Korean), age (middle aged) and personality (ultra mellow). I've long suspected I produce little or no

'none as I have little BO, almost no body hair and don't sweat much.

[wood elf]

True, but the

point is you must experiment to find what works for you. Even if you could measure the amount of 'none if would be

impossible to accurately factor in behavior, natural pheromones and the situation. I'm one of those that can wear a

lot of 'none with no ill-effects. Probably a combination of my ethnicity (Korean), age (middle aged) and

personality (ultra mellow). I've long suspected I produce little or no 'none as I have little BO, almost no body

hair and don't sweat much.
We agree. Belgareth is about the same age as you, he cannot wear much none

without it becoming obnoxious. He is of scandinavian descent, hairy as an old bear (acts like one sometimes too) and

is casually aggressive. Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought there was some correlation between a person's

natural attitude and their pheromone signature. If so, measuring a person's natural pheromone signature would be

useful in describing supplemental pheromones appropriate to that person.

Others on the forum have denied the

concept of OD altogether and for them it may be true but for others it is not.

[satyrboy]

I was doing a bit of mixing

yesterday (Managed to get the bottle of SOE open) and was mixing into an atomizer: SOE, p10, NPA and some Joop WAA.

I spilled A LOT of NPA on myself. Wiped it off on my chest, legs, arms whereever. It was an amount not describable

in "drops" This was on top of a fair amount of p10, 1/3 AE gel pack, 4 drops of NPA, a few rolls of SOE and some

Joop WAA for cover.

I thought I stunk, I used a bit more Joop WAA to cover and still thought I stunk.
I

didn't have time to shower before heading out with my wife.

1) no OD symptoms. Again, people were polite and

responsive.
2) I got more looks than I ever normally do.
3) I had earlier had an issue on the phone with a

customer service rep at a store. I went to the store and asked for him. I got into his personal space, and

pretended to strain at being polite yet pissed (actually I could really care less) he was VERY intimidated(I'm not

an intimidating man)
4) Wife was very responsive/interested.

Maybe I should just take a -none bath daily.

[seduceme]

Yeah I had on some NPA+chikara

today. Actually I put on 2 dabs of NPA and yeah I could smell something(weird I couldnt before). Its like a very

rank smell, acrid if you will.
I covered it with 3 sprays of chikara and off I went.

Yeah people did look

more, and its weird but some were unusually more interested to interact than before. Its all good though i'll post

back when I've figured this stuff out here.

[belgareth]

That's strange. I used three

sprays of TE with about 6" of SoE when I went to visit a normally cool client and he blew up on me. His secretary

was shocked so badly that she left the room and later called to apologise. He admitted a few days later that he had

no idea what came over him and felt awful about it half an hour afterwards.

There have been several other

incidences but that one really caught my attention.

[Jonathan]

Gegogi: Thanks for

mentioning body hair. That's a good point for consideration.


We agree. Belgareth is about the

same age as you, he cannot wear much none without it becoming obnoxious. He is of scandinavian descent, hairy as an

old bear (acts like one sometimes too) and is casually aggressive. Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought

there was some correlation between a person's natural attitude and their pheromone signature. If so, measuring a

person's natural pheromone signature would be useful in describing supplemental pheromones appropriate to that

person.

Others on the forum have denied the concept of OD altogether and for them it may be true but for

others it is not.
See, I think that the "natural pheromone signature" thing is a misnomer. I think the

variance in sensitivity to 'none isn't a matter of how much 'none your body produces--which, AFAIK, is

miniscule--but rather is a matter of how easy you are at being perceived as intimidating. I think that there are

just certain things about people--e.g., height, weight, muscle size, aggressiveness, gestures, voice volume,

etc.--that cause people to be intimidated, and that 'none magnifies these characteristics dramatically in the eye

of the beholder. If a person has these characteristics (like belgareth), then he has to be careful around 'none or

his intimidating-ness will become overwhelming (i.e., what's called an overdose). If a person has a few of these

characteristics, then it would take a lot more 'none before an intimidation overdose is reached. If a person has

essentially none of these characteristics (like Gegogi), then it's probably going to be nigh impossible for this

person to overdose--no matter how much 'none Steve Erkel and William Hung wear nobody is going to be frightened of

them. If every 0.01mg 'none makes you twice as intimidating, and you naturally have an intimidation factor (like

Erkel) of zero, then no matter how much 'none you use, you'll never be intimidating.


Maybe

I should just take a -none bath daily. Whatever works, right?

[satyrboy]

I'm not sure, but I think I

was just compared to Erkel.
That sucks.
Gregorri, I think you joined me in the slight!

[Jonathan]

Hey, Erkel's cool! You'd

better not be dissing my boy Steve-Oh.

I wasn't saying that you (and Gegogi) have Erkel-esque qualities,

though. I was saying that you (and Gegogi) lack the qualities that both Erkel and Hung also lack. (Incidentally, I

lack those qualities too. We're all in this together, you see. Maybe we should start a club for the have-nots?)

[Riley]

Jonathan, check this thread out,

where Cpt. posts some numbers-

http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13213

Seems to

me that even among the number crunchers there is great debate on natural concentrations.

satyrboy- I have

also found that the better a woman knows you (like a wife, for example), the less chance of an OD you will have with

her (her knowing you're a good guy will override the 'fear factor'). Ofcourse, it also seems that the better a

woman knows you, the more likely she is to notice a difference in your 'mone signature.


Riley

[Gegogi]

But I'm a lot cuter than William

Hung!

I have the face of a priest. My mother called me "little budda." For some reason I appear totally

non-threatening (I'm actually a wolf in sheep's clothing). Thus, people easily trust me and want to confess all

their sins and inner most secrets. I really don't care to hear about it most of the time. However, the benefit is

most women trust me right away. Once they get to know me, they often accuse me of somehow tricking or bewitching

them.

[wood elf]

Gegogi:

Thanks for mentioning body hair. That's a good point for consideration.


See, I think that the "natural

pheromone signature" thing is a misnomer. I think the variance in sensitivity to 'none isn't a matter of how much

'none your body produces--which, AFAIK, is miniscule--but rather is a matter of how easy you are at being perceived

as intimidating. I think that there are just certain things about people--e.g., height, weight, muscle size,

aggressiveness, gestures, voice volume, etc.--that cause people to be intimidated, and that 'none magnifies these

characteristics dramatically in the eye of the beholder. If a person has these characteristics (like belgareth),

then he has to be careful around 'none or his intimidating-ness will become overwhelming (i.e., what's called an

overdose). If a person has a few of these characteristics, then it would take a lot more 'none before an

intimidation overdose is reached. If a person has essentially none of these characteristics (like Gegogi), then

it's probably going to be nigh impossible for this person to overdose--no matter how much 'none Steve Erkel and

William Hung wear nobody is going to be frightened of them. If every 0.01mg 'none makes you twice as intimidating,

and you naturally have an intimidation factor (like Erkel) of zero, then no matter how much 'none you use, you'll

never be intimidating.

Whatever works, right?
I think you are wrong. This morning I am on my way to

class and do not have time to rebutte. When I return this afternoon I will explain myself better. In short, your

theory does not take into account innumerable real world experiences by many forum members over several years but

seems to be just theory. My own experiences are not even close to what you describe. Have you worn synthetic

pheromones and what are your results? I do not find a single hit report by you.

W. Elf

[Jonathan]

Riley: Thanks for the

link. Quite helpful.


I think you are wrong. Disagreement is always welcome.



In short, your theory does not take into account innumerable real world experiences by many forum

members over several years but seems to be just theory. From my readings (this thread included), I've come

under the impression that some people OD on 'none with seemingly infinitessimal amounts, whereas others--myself

included--can swim in the stuff without a typical OD response. The "personal pheromone signature" explanation has

seemed lacking to me, especially since the difference in the maximum usable dose for the two types of people appears

to be several times the total skin 'none content for even the most alpha of males. I've been trying to come up

with an explanation for this phenomenon, and the above was the best I could come up with.

After re-reading my

post, though, I think I understand where you're coming from. I used the word "intimidating", and 'none alone is

definitely pretty intimidating. I think what I meant to say was that 'none alone is not frightening, and

people will only be frightened (according to my revised theory) if 'none is coupled with certain behavioral or

physical characteristics. Example: I've noticed several times that when I wear a lot of 'none, people will

suddenly become very quiet when I walk up to them, or otherwise stop talking when my scent/'mones reach their nose.

On one particular occasion, I was wearing about 7 (!) drops of NPA, most of which was on my head and hair, and the

remainder of which was on my palms and the insides of my wrists. I was talking with two guys and a girl in a bar in

a little circle. The conversation seemed to be going normally enough, except that everyone seemed to be paying much

more attention to me than normal. At one point, though, there were two of us talking in two little

sub-conversations, and about two seconds after I made an open-palms hand gesture to accent a point (remember where I

had the NPA applied), I noticed the other speaker's face go blank as he stopped midsentence, letting his jaw hang

open in a bemused daze, then say, quietly, stutteringly, and with a sheepish smile, "I totally just forgot what I

was saying." He didn't seem afraid of me or to have any negative feelings toward me at all, though: he was just

... bemused and braindead. After we talked a little more, he seemed to relax a little bit, but he continued to be

much more shy and subservient after getting that whiff. I've noticed this type of phenomenon several times when

wearing 'none, and I have yet to get a frightened or aggressive response from anyone. That, plus the experience of

Gegogi and satyrboy above, is what prompted me to write the theory above. Basically, it's just a logical extension

of the Clint Eastwood/Lone Wolf effect: it's the William Hung/Steve Erkel effect. (Or whatever. I'm not

particularly good at choosing pop-culture poster children.)


My own experiences are not even

close to what you describe. Have you worn synthetic pheromones and what are your results? I do not find a single hit

report by you.

That's because I haven't posted any except in the context of replies to others'

posts. I've been meaning to give a proper de-lurking for a while now, but I always seem to get sidetracked by

something someone else says and stay up until 3am replying to that every time I try. =\. One of these days.

[wood elf]

The first reason I think you are wrong is your assumption about ease of being intimidating. My only

experience is with and around Belgareth. He is not intimidating to look at. He is 5' 8" tall which is only average,

he is muscular but it is more like a cat than something else. The loose clothes he likes to wear usually conceal it

well enough. Most of the time he is laughing or smiling and he always speaks in a soft voice. I do not need to see

him to be bothered by too much androstenone. Belgareth has walked up behind me wearing too much and I feel it. It

makes me nervous and waspish; he might use another, stronger word. Certain times of the month I am more sensitive to

it than others. When he is not wearing synthetic pheromones or is wearing ones with no or little androstenone I am

comfortable and like to be close to him. I often have friends visiting and they react to it the same way as I.

I

say he is casually aggressive because he is never rude or arrogant. Once he decides to do something he will get it

done but is always polite in how he deals with anybody. Little children love him most of the time, whether he is

wearing synthetic pheromones or not. That may be because he is very fond of little children and will always take

time to smile and speak to a child. When he wears too much androstenone even his granddaughter, who adores him,

avoids him.

Some other questions that you make me wish to ask. How do you account for all the experienced users

that have reported ODs? Did they all imagine it and you are the only one who can see all their errors? It seems

unlikely.

There is good reason to believe that humans respond to the small amount of androstenone produced,

which indicates a certain level of sensitivity to low levels of the molecule. See the comments in the women’s forum

about how a man smells for one small example. Most mammals that are able to detect small amounts of light or sound

or scent are easily overloaded. That can often result in pain but probably does not in every case. Even pain can

overload our ability to perceive it. I think it is likely that beyond a certain level additional pheromones will not

be a benefit but a waste of money even if most people do not have a repulsion reaction. The organ detecting the

pheromones will not be able to perceive an increased quantity.

There have been many studies quoted and linked on

this forum regarding pheromone detection. There is speculation that pheromones may not be detected by the VNO or

that not all pheromones are detected by the same organ. If that is the case we can assume that despite massive

amounts of one pheromone being detected by a given organ may have no effect on the perception of another pheromone

by a different organ and possibly a different part of the brain. On this site people discuss the use of only a

handful of pheromones, what about the hundreds of others that are a normal part of each human's scent? They likely

have an effect as well and should be considered as part of the normal pheromone signature of the individual instead

of being discounted. One possible alternative is that certain people produce one or more of another (as yet

unidentified?) pheromone that moderates the response to androstenone and others are lacking that pheromone.

To

sum up what I am seeing, you write well but you are glossing over or not aware of some facts and are making

unwarranted assumptions. That is fine if that is what you wish to do but you are stating your view as fact and could

be misleading other inexperienced users. I cannot speak for anybody else but Belgareth is a good, careful observer

and even before he told me of his synthetic pheromone use I saw the same reactions he does. OD reactions happen to

some people more easily than to others. I cannot explain why but have seen it firsthand multiple times under

conditions that could not be a reaction to physical presence or by people who know him well and are not intimidated

by him.

There is likely to be more to this than you are covering with your explanation and the things not

explained could be causing others to not have as good of results or even fail in their use of pheromones.

W.

Elf

[DrSmellThis]

We need to get Sue in here,

Koolking!