Hello

[wood elf]

Hi Everybody!



This is my first post but I have been hanging around the forum and around pheromones for a long time.

It seems like I know many of you from all my reading on the forum. The perspective I want to offer is that of a

woman who is subject to pheromones from somebody else almost daily. I have not worn them and probably will not. Not

because of any remaining lack of belief in them or any bad feelings about them, I don’t see any reason for me to

wear them.



Should I

tell you about myself? Ok, I will. I am a twenty-eight year old Irish citizen living in the US, attending university

on a scholarship, and living with a most remarkable older man. One day I hope to convince him to marry me but there

is no reason to rush things. This spring I will finish school and I think they are going to offer me a job as a

researcher and I intend to apply for citizenship at the same time. Here are my

statistics:

Five feet tall, red hair, green eyes, 96 pounds. Whether

I am attractive is up to your perspective so I am not going to give my opinion. My friend thinks I am but, as he

often tells me, he’s a dirty old man. That’s something I love about him.



After I have time to put my thoughts in order I’ll

write about what it’s like to be on the other end of his experiments. A lot of fun most of the time.





W.

Elf

[DrSmellThis]

Looking quite forward to your

input. I play Irish trad music, so am quite fond of that culture. What county?

[wood elf]

I'm from a rural area south of

Galway in county Galway.

[bjf]

I'm looking forward to it as well.

Just as valuable would be descriptions of your experiences that were unpleasant.

[wood elf]

There have been a few of those

too but not many. I'll write about it later.

[DrSmellThis]

I'm from a

rural area south of Galway in county Galway.Know any of a McGettrick family from the Galway area?

[wood elf]

Without meaning offense, please

understand that I will not further discuss where I am from. My family's and my own privacy are paramount.

[HK45Mark23]

Hi

Wood Elf,

It is great to meet you. I am of the same stature as you. I

am a 5' 125 lb male 32 years old. My Grandmothers maiden name was Reynolds. I think you sound vary sexy and I

love red hair. Welcome to Love-Scent. Please feel free to enlighten us as to your experience and

prospective.

HK45Mark23

[DrSmellThis]

Without

meaning offense, please understand that I will not further discuss where I am from. My family's and my own privacy

are paramount.I did not intend to pry. Please accept my apology.

[bjf]

Woodelf, I just want to hear your

stories. I think it is great that you are offering to describe what it is like to be on the good and bad end of

pheromone experiences. It's very helpful to us.

[wood elf]

The worst experience with

pheromones was last summer. My friend applies his in the morning then goes to work out in the late afternoon. Men

who have a good diet and keep themselves clean usually smell very good right after exercise, its a musky sensual

smell. This day he was called away before he came home to shower. It was four or five hours before he got home. He

had changed his clothes but was rank and the smell was repulsive, it was a total turn off. I wouldn't let him near

me until he had showered. It even made the bathroom stink. We have gone camping together and he doesn't wear

pheromones then but it is hard to get a shower in the woods. He has never been so rank as that day. The synthetic

pheromones got awful.

[bjf]

Do you have any information regarding

the products he uses?

[belgareth]

Do you have any

information regarding the products he uses?BJf,

Wood elf is my girlfriend. You know what I wear, don't

you?

[bjf]

heheheh.

Yep, that can get

pretty stink, can't it? It has happened to me too.

[wood elf]

It wasn't pretty stink, it was

awful! It made me think of some of those people that live on the sidewalks in New York.

You people write about

your mixes and the hits you get but there is so little about the relationships you have. Some of the guys have

written about body language and that had useful advice in it as far as it went. So many others write about instant

dating books. None of them set the right tone for a relationship that will last. It will help you get casual sex

from women who are looking for the same thing but it will not help you build a relationship that will last and make

you happy to be with somebody. Once you start off with somebody on those terms you have to keep up the facade

because the moment you let it lapse they see you for the phoney you are. They will not ever trust you again and

trust is one of the building blocks that make a good relationship.

Most males I have known that were under

thirty years old were sacks of raging hormones with two feet and twenty-six hands. That isn't all bad, I have

strong urges too. But there is so much more to a relationship than the sexual aspect. To form a happy relationship

with a person you need to fulfill more than her physical needs. It might not be important to you now but do you want

to spend all your life going from one unfulfilling relationship to another?

[bjf]

It wasn't pretty

stink, it was awful! It made me think of some of those people that live on the sidewalks in New York.




No need to get on holmes' case, now. :lol:

[Holmes]

No need to get on

holmes' case, now. :lol:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I was just gonna say.

[culturalblonde]

"...you have to keep up

the facade because the moment you let it lapse they see you for the phoney you are. They will not ever trust you

again and trust is one of the building blocks that make a good relationship."

How right you are! I once

dated a guy who said he was an artist... I later found out he actually painted logos on trucks. :LOL:

[HK45Mark23]

You know, I think in order to really be fulfilled in a relationship you have to really care for some one. To

me love is caring for some one else’s welfare more than your own and they have to also have the same feelings for

you.

The dating books I

read have not had a lot of quick pick up information but really stressed learning the psychology of courtship. Men

are from Mars taught me so much about how a woman thinks in contrast to my perceptions. Now I understand the

differences of our thought process.

A book called “How to succeed with women” taught a lot about courtship. It also discusses the

importance of commitment and how to keep the magic alive for the rest of your lives together. It is not just a pick

up book and does not work for those who are just looking for a casual sex relationship. It is geared more toward

the courtship ritual. It kind of gives to do lists and never do lists and when things are appropriate and when they

are not. Like some things may be ok to do but never until other things have happened

first.

One of the

biggest mistakes I was making is not initiating contact. When I was a younger the girls always chased me. Now I am

an older and still short. Through out my teens and twenties I have had many women really hurt me because of my

height. Because of my success when I was in grade school with the girls chasing me I was

spoiled.

The pain of

rejection I encountered as a late teenager and in my twenties was causing me to not initiating any relationships. I

felt like if they liked me they can initiate and I am not going to waste my time getting hurt and

rejected.

I then

learned in books about body language that they had initiated and I never knew the signs and lost so many

opportunities to have relationships with women I really desired. Now I will talk to many women that most people

would say are out of my league. I have people say to me don’t even try her she will never talk to you, and then I

will leave with her. I feel like (because of a book I read) if I don’t talk to her I may be doing her an injustice

by not allowing her to get to know me. I may be the best guy that she has ever met. I may be the most honest,

caring and considerate man that she has ever met. It is not up to me to make the decision for her. And if I am not

good enough for her I’ll let her decide that. I have success with them and the others who don’t ask them out never

even get the chance to date the caliber of women that I do. I still don’t ask out many women but I am dealing with

it. I am still uncomfortable asking out beautiful sexy successful women, but I am now trying, making mistakes and

learning. I also now know when they like me and when they don’t according to body

language.

When I was

riding race horses was also a time when women would flock to me and I had no problem dating the women I liked but

when I stopped the ladies also stopped initiating. Well we know now they only wanted me because of my money and

status.

Anyway I love

women and not for just sex, I love every thing about women.



To me being genuine is of the utmost importance. I hate liars,

thieves and cheats. Any thing can be perversed if it is in the wrong hands

Main Entry: per·verse
Pronunciation: (")p&r-'v&rs,

'p&r-"
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin perversus, from past

participle of pervertere
Date: 14th century
1 a : turned away from what is right or good

: CORRUPT (aol://4344:1708.D0015215.40123249.672502681/) b :

IMPROPER (aol://4344:1708.D0034556.40142590.672503130/),

INCORRECT (aol://4344:1708.D0034833.40142867.672503137/) c : contrary to the evidence or the

direction of the judge on a point of law <perverse verdict>
2 a : obstinate in opposing what is

right, reasonable, or accepted : WRONGHEADED (aol://4344:1708.D0079743.40187780.672606389/) b : arising from or indicative of

stubbornness or obstinacy
3 : marked by peevishness or petulance :

CRANKY (aol://4344:1708.D0015794.40123828.672502693/)
synonym see

CONTRARY (aol://4344:1708.D0014696.40122730.672502669/)
- per·verse·ly adverb
-

per·verse·ness noun
- per·ver·si·ty /p&r-'v&r-s&-tE, -stE/ noun

I think the books I have recommended now and in the

past also hold a good standard. Any thing can be misused and twisted but for the most part thy are on the right

course, if you are trying to developing proper relationships short term or long term.

I had been hurt and had no knowledge concerning

relating to women, all that relates to my childhood and my lack of social development. The books gave me a

foundation to work from in relating to women and their body language in courtship. Also I learned other body

language signs that have helped me in life. The pheromones do help in creating the proper mood. I do find that

women are much more open to talking to me now that I use them.



I believe I have proven that short ugly people have a different

pheromone signature than that of tall beautiful successful people. I am proof of that.

HK45Mark23

[tounge]

It wasn't pretty

stink, it was awful! It made me think of some of those people that live on the sidewalks in New York.

You

people write about your mixes and the hits you get but there is so little about the relationships you have. Some of

the guys have written about body language and that had useful advice in it as far as it went. So many others write

about instant dating books. None of them set the right tone for a relationship that will last. It will help you get

casual sex from women who are looking for the same thing but it will not help you build a relationship that will

last and make you happy to be with somebody. Once you start off with somebody on those terms you have to keep up the

facade because the moment you let it lapse they see you for the phoney you are. They will not ever trust you again

and trust is one of the building blocks that make a good relationship.

Most males I have known that were

under thirty years old were sacks of raging hormones with two feet and twenty-six hands. That isn't all bad, I have

strong urges too. But there is so much more to a relationship than the sexual aspect. To form a happy relationship

with a person you need to fulfill more than her physical needs. It might not be important to you now but do you want

to spend all your life going from one unfulfilling relationship to another?




Good

points. However,it must be pointed out that the game playing and being a phoney work both ways.

Many of these

young men have no understanding of how to translate the language of womenese. And modern day feminism has confused

them even more.Society has reaped what it has sown. This has caused many a young man to be a horn dog without the

understanding of what it is to also be a gentleman. Society today has also tried to degrade men from simply being a

man(which is what 99% of women want)and turn them into a more soft and feminine creature.

What people need

to remember is that the law of nature is the same as physics. FOR EVERY ACTION,THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE

REACTION.

Many relationships today are in the sewer, because of both sexes misnotions of what things

should be. And to blame one sex to the exclusion of the other is faulty.

[wood elf]

Obviously true. Isn't it a

self perpetuating circle? Both sides are to blame but I am reading much more misinformation about how to treat women

on this forum than how to treat men.

You over-generalize when you say that 99% of women want a man, every woman

wants something different and defines a man differently. One of my friends is engaged to a whinny guy with no spine.

Another one dotes on her boyfriend who barely finished high school and acts like a bully most of the time. About

half my friends adore Belgareth for his self-assured strength and gentlemanly ways, a third are afraid of him to

some degree and some even dislike him because he refuses to take them seriously.

Do you want the same thing in a

woman as all your friends? Most people don't seem to know what they want and choose based on what others tell them

a good partner should be. Most people also respond to the courting ritual like peacocks trying to impress each other

with displays that do not reflect who they are inside. Many who post here seem to think that if they can find the

perfect mix of synthetic pheromones they will have as many women as they want.

[bjf]

Wood Elf: Alot of what you are saying

is true, but try to step out of your own skin. Think of how attacted you were to the most tempting man you ever saw

or met. Now consider that men experience that feeling daily around women (and this isn't necessarily a good thing

because 99 percent of the time it goes unfulfilled). Throw in millions of sperm to waste to your few hundred eggs

that you have to be selective with, etc etc, and what you get is an intense drive in males to nail that which tempts

us.

[wood elf]

How old are you?

[bjf]

25. And yourself?

[wood elf]

28. Your explanation is exactly

the reason I live with a man who is 48. I can happily attest to his strong drives but he still behaves like a

gentleman and treats me like a lady. He doesn't waste time trying to be anything he isn't and he doesn't expect

me to. He values me as a person and companion as much as a lover. How would you like to be regarded as no more than

a respository for semen?

[bjf]

LOL. You missed the point. Bel

feels the same way anyone else does. Well, actually, older men do generally have lower t-levels, which is

correlated with sex drive.

In any case, just cause we feel it doesn't mean we act on it.

As for

repository for semen, again, you missed the point. I was trying to illustrate the biological differences in terms

of numbers between men and women that drive our differing biological experiences/emotions. We don't have to act on

these experiences/emotions because we have other emotions driven by other things.

[wood elf]

I gladly will listen or read

all day of you wish to make a rational explanation for what you were trying to say. Maybe you were unclear or I was

slow. Would you please explain what you mean?

At my age I am approaching my most sexually active stage.

Belgareth does take some supplements and excercises frequently but is not a laggard in the bedroom. If his T levels

are low I haven't noticed it yet.

[bjf]

I gladly will listen

or read all day of you wish to make a rational explanation for what you were trying to say. Maybe you were unclear

or I was slow. Would you please explain what you mean?

Ok. Basically your post seemed to be saying

the formula's you are seeing posted about for seductions weren't condusive to long-term relationships. And

whatever is accomplished is unfilling.

You're thinking like a woman. We're not women.

[DrSmellThis]

...interesting convo.

[wood elf]

It depends on what you want

from life. There is nothing wrong with casual sex if that is what you want. In some people's eyes that is a lonely

way to live. If you were trying to say Belgareth thinks that way also you are utterly mistaken. You are as guilty as

the rest of us of assuming that everybody thinks the same way you do.

It isn't a difference in how men and

women think. Not a few of my female friends see it the same as you. It is more a difference in ones priorities in

life. I have noticed that even the biggest swinger sooner or later decides to settle down with a single partner. It

probably would behoove most people to learn something about long term relationships.

[DrSmellThis]

Both of you are making good

points that mostly can be true without any conflict in understanding between perspectives whatsoever, IMHO.

[bjf]

Look, let's put Mr. Bel aside

because that's irrelavent. Bottom line is, by no fault of your own, your ignorant to the experience of being a

man, and that experience plays heavily into the thoughts and behaviors you are not so fond of in me.

And I

think very few men only want casual sex. That's just driven by biological urges which strongly influence or

perhaps dictate attraction. Most have minds and hearts that want something else.

later.

[wood elf]

Women have some strong

biological urges themselves. And for the same reason you are ignorant of the experience of being a woman.

[bjf]

"Women have some strong biological

urges themselves"

Which is why I tried unsucessfully to showcase our biological differences to you earlier,

ie the number of eggs vs. sperm.

Men and women have different experience in terms of our urges because of our

biology. Women have to spend nine months with a baby inside their body, not men (different consequences for mating,

which therefore must create differences in our sexual feelings/behavior).

I've had this conversation with

too many redheads, you are all the same.

[Holmes]

And I came to this thread

expecting Lionel Ritchie.

[tounge]

Obviously true.

Isn't it a self perpetuating circle? Both sides are to blame but I am reading much more misinformation about how to

treat women on this forum than how to treat men.

You over-generalize when you say that 99% of women want a

man, every woman wants something different and defines a man differently.

Do you want the same thing in a

woman as all your friends? Most people don't seem to know what they want and choose based on what others tell them

a good partner should be. Most people also respond to the courting ritual like peacocks trying to impress each other

with displays that do not reflect who they are inside. Many who post here seem to think that if they can find the

perfect mix of synthetic pheromones they will have as many women as they want.




Of

course you will read more misinformation about women than men here. 95% of the posters here are male, and many of

them young and somewhat naive.

Go to any predominantly female sight, and you will see the opposite. And yes,

I may have slightly exagerrated the 99%, but not by much, believe me.


And, I totally agree with you on

the synthetic pheromone solution. But I have said that here for a few years.

[wood elf]

Tounge:



Thank you. I’ve read many of your posts and saw that you felt that way about synthetic pheromones.

It's probably true about the other forums too. I’ve been reading this forum for a while and enjoy most of your

posts.



BJF:



You probably have a wonderful explanation of how my hair color has anything to do with this topic, let

me know when you come up with it. That kind of shallow thinking is no less a form of bigotry than claiming people of

a given skin color are all the same. If that’s how your mind works there is no hope for you and I’ll end the

discussion now.

[Holmes]

Do you want the

same thing in a woman as all your friends?

Fundamentally? Yes.

[CptKipling]

And I came to

this thread expecting Lionel Ritchie.
I too was sorrily dissappointed.

[DrSmellThis]

All night long,

All

night!

All night long.

All night!

[wood elf]

Now that we have it all out of

our system I was going somewhere with my earlier thought. I said that guys seem to think if they can find the right

mix they will have all the girls they want and I think it is a mistake to think that way. My opinion is only that of

one woman and is prejudiced because I think I've met a man who is wonderful with or without pheromones. The

pheromones had an effect but his poise and self confidence and humor attracted me long before I was close enough to

be affected by airborne molecules.

Belgareth was a guest speaker in one of my classes. I expected a guy who

shows up in a tailored suit to be at least a little stuffy. He wasn't at all. He spoke for an hour and had the

class laughing much of the time, yet we learned because his humor was exaggerating normal daily occurances to the

point of absurdity then pointing out the truth in his exaggerations. I wasn't the only woman to find him charming.



After class we hung around to ask questions and somebody thought we should go get some food. He didn't want to

but the prof persuaded him to join us a couple hours later. Belgareth took the time to change into jeans, he looked

good in a suit but looked more comfortable in jeans. It took me a while to work it so I was sitting next to him and

here I want to mention DrSmellThis. Belgareth said that you created the cologne he wears. It makes a man smell

really good.

Belgareth is funny when he decides to play. He teased everybody but I think I was his chosen victim

for the evening. He was never crude or insulting and I laughed as hard as anybody but he seemed to take a special

pleasure in making me laugh. The longer I sat there the more I wanted to get closer to him, now I know that part of

it was the pheromones but the biggest part was Belgareth. I worked hard to get close to him in the first place

because of his style and class and charm. Without those the pheromones would have meant nothing. Once I was near

enough the pheromones helped assure I would try to stay close to him.

When people started to leave he made this

huge production of standing up, brushing himself off and turning his chair around so he could sit on it backwards

and face me. It was silly and had me laughing again. He explained in a slow southern drawl (He normally speaks

precise english) that he had a hankerin' to wander over to that ice cream place a couple blocks away and would

purely love som company. Y' all don't like ice cream, do you? The guy is a lunatic to be around. We've been

together ever since.

This was a very long post and I am sorry for that but you had to have the tone to

understand how attitude, humor and pheromones all worked together. If he hadn't had the other points I would not

have ever been near enough. He charmed me with his personality before anything else.

[tounge]

I think you would have fallen for

him anyway, if he was not wearing mones. You were attracted to him after getting to know him, it seems. And his

personality seems to be very appealing to you. I really wonder how much the pheromones had to do with it.

If

we could answer that, it would be interesting, for that is the million dollar question around here.

[wood elf]

That's the whole point!

Synthetic pheromones help but they are only part of the whole picture. If there is no other attraction they are not

going to do much good. If he hadn't displayed class and wit and intelligence I wouldn't have been interested. If

he hadn't continued to display his many other good qualities I wouldn't have stayed with him. I don't want you to

think he is perfect or a superman as he also has his flaws and fiobles, he can be very trying at times but his good

qualities far out weigh his bad ones. Synthetic pheromones add some extra spice, no more.

[CptKipling]

People who really understand

what's going on understand that pheromones are only a part of the whole picture of attraction.

[DrSmellThis]

That's the

whole point! Synthetic pheromones help but they are only part of the whole picture. If there is no other attraction

they are not going to do much good. If he hadn't displayed class and wit and intelligence I wouldn't have been

interested. If he hadn't continued to display his many other good qualities I wouldn't have stayed with him. I

don't want you to think he is perfect or a superman as he also has his flaws and fiobles, he can be very trying at

times but his good qualities far out weigh his bad ones. Synthetic pheromones add some extra spice, no

more.It's still good to hear it from the perspective of someone regularly exposed to pheromones, even if we

already knew it.

[Mtnjim]

It's still good

to hear it from the perspective of someone regularly exposed to pheromones, even if we already knew it.


Now if only those who think the ~mones are a "magic bullet" could understand...

[tounge]

It's still good

to hear it from the perspective of someone regularly exposed to pheromones, even if we already knew it.




That's my point. Clearly Wood elf was attracted to Bwelgarth. The question is: What role did mones play in

it? It's not a question that can be easily answered by anyone here.

And I'm not looking for an answer.

I'm just throwing it out for speculation and discussion.

[wood elf]

That's my point.

Clearly Wood elf was attracted to Bwelgarth. The question is: What role did mones play in it? It's not a question

that can be easily answered by anyone here.

And I'm not looking for an answer. I'm just throwing it out for

speculation and discussion.
That is a good point. Noone knows what would have happened if he had not worn

synthetic pheromones. Even the nice cologne he was wearing may have played a part. I will try to make it clearer, if

I can.

Belgareth is not handsome (sorry, love!:kiss: ) but he has a healthy glow and his eyes sparkle like he is

ready to laugh most of the time. He has good shoulders and chest and is graceful in his movements. His self

confidence shows in the way he stands and moves. He has good manners and treats every woman or anybody else with

courtesy without being subservient. I can't imagine somebody being able to dominate or intimidate him. When you put

that together he is attractive in a manly fashion. That is why I tried to get close to him. Before we went to eat I

was not nearer than fifteen feet so do not believe the pheromones had yet affected me. Tounge is perfectly right in

thinking I was already attracted. I wanted his attention!

When I think back I believe that the pheromones had an

effect when we were eating. It wasn't that I was thinking about being attracted or how attractive he was, it was

down at the emotional, animal level that I think the pheromones worked on me.

[Holmes]

I can't imagine

somebody being able to dominate or intimidate him.

Was this something you picked up on before you got

to know him?

What specifically gave you this impression?

[wood elf]

Was this

something you picked up on before you got to know him?

What specifically gave you this impression?


Holmes:

It was something that seemed to be a part of him from the first. Have you ever seen somebody that

looked like they didn't feel comfortable in there own skin? Belgareth wears his self assurance like another skin.

It seems to radiate out from him, he knows what he is and doesn't seem to care if anybody else likes what he is. I

know now why he is so sure of himself, he has earned it. He is not arrogant at all , he is kind, gentle, caring and

loves to make others feel good. That is from somebody that feels deeply about him but others see it too.

I

speak of his good points because that is what attracted me to him and it makes him sound unreal. He isn't perfect,

he drives me crazy sometimes with his ways and he is the most stubborn man I've ever met. At least every week I get

so angry with him I want to scream.

W. Elf

[Pancho1188]

It depends on

what you want from life. There is nothing wrong with casual sex if that is what you want. In some people's eyes

that is a lonely way to live. If you were trying to say Belgareth thinks that way also you are utterly mistaken. You

are as guilty as the rest of us of assuming that everybody thinks the same way you do.

It isn't a difference in

how men and women think. Not a few of my female friends see it the same as you. It is more a difference in ones

priorities in life. I have noticed that even the biggest swinger sooner or later decides to settle down with a

single partner. It probably would behoove most people to learn something about long term relationships.


Ha, ha. You should check out Gegogi's posts:


Tried that and been there! Actually I was once a

monogomous idealist and was married for nearly 20 years. Hell, the first decade was a blast. But things change and,

well, I've decided to go with what I feel is right rather than embrace society's ideals. Only a vestige of my

idealist heart remains. What I'd like now are several attractive, loyal and intelligent (!) bisexual concubines.

I'd really enjoy watching them make love to one another before satisfying my amorous desires.
From this

thread:



http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13154