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MOBLEYC57
02-16-2005, 08:49 PM
Howdy

Folks! :wave:

Since this subject hit the forum, I've collected things/notes that caught my interest, and

wanted to share them. I'm sure there's lots more that can be added, but this is what I have. Sorry, no links.

:wave:


BODY LANGUAGE NOTES:

The less you move about

(body movement) when entering a room, the more powerful and credible you are perceived to be.

To accurately

interpret a person’s body language one must be aware of (1) the culture in which it takes place, (2) whether the

environment is professional or personal, (3) the gender of the participant, and (4) be sure you’re receiving more

than 1 sign (the more signs you see, the greater the possibilities are that you’ve read her interest in you

correctly).


GESTURES

* Catching one’s eye

gaze, and holding it long than what is considered normal.

* Preening - A woman may

stroke her hair, twirl or toss her hair, check her makeup in a mirror, or rearrange her clothing.



* Moving in for the kill (cutting the space/distance between you two) - Some signs that someone is

trying to command your attention is the pouting of the lips, crossing and uncrossing the legs, placing the hands on

the hips, thrusting the hips out and leaning one’s body in toward you.

* Swaying

of her body and hips as she walks.


EYE

CONTACT



In a business or classroom situation, hard eye

contact is possible, but you must consider the professional setting. To help figure it out, you can look to see if

the body is turned away from you, or towards you.


SIGNS OF SEXUAL

INTEREST

* Intense eye contact (which will often shift to sexual organs,

like the breast or genitalia, or looking the intended up and down).

* An overly

exaggerated or coy smile

* Concocted

laughter

* Winking

* Licking

the lips to wet them

* Touching oneself in a flirtatious

manner

* Overtly touching the intended target

* Overtly thrusting out the

breast and/or hips

* Swaying of the hips

* Wearing of revealing clothing or excessive

makeup

* Slightly separating her legs (in invitation) when seated.

* Holding her hands

near her breast or thighs when talking.

* Forward thrusting of her breast.

* Slowly

licking her lips

* Hair twirl with a finger

* Lightly rubbing her

neck/leg

* Lightly running a finger across her lip(s), breast

* Playing with her

jewelry

* Looking at your lips when you talk

* Showing more leg then is appropriate (if

in a dress)


HOW TO TELL IF SHE’S PLAYING HARD TO GET



She’ll give the SIGNS OF SEXUAL INTEREST before turning and walking away. To determine if there’s genuine

interest, just look into her eyes. If she’s truly attracted, her eyes will drop, but will return to meet your

gaze.


STEPS IN CREATING SEXUAL ATTRACTION



OPEN POSTURE. DO NOT cross anything ... arms, legs, or sit or stand with hunched over

shoulders.

FACE YOUR PROSPECT, making sure you’re entire body is facing her.

THE

FLIRTING TRIANGLE - When the eyes travel from the eyes down the face, (for a more prolong period) to the mouth,

and for the more daring, the chest or genitalia area. The more intense flirting will have one looking from eye to

eye, and make sure you concentrate on the lips. Constantly looking at the lips will have them wondering if you’re

fantasizing about kissing them. The wider the flirting triangle, the more sexual interest exists.

MIRRORING

- Mirroring is one of the most powerful and influential body language skills we can possess. Whatever moves she

makes, you make, but work to not be so obvious. The concept of mirroring is to get someone to like you, and works as

a bonding mechanism. (1) NEVER mimic a negative movement (crossing of the arms or legs), (2) allow at least 50

SECONDS to pass before mirroring your target.

THE EYEBROW FLASH - When we first encounter someone that we

find attractive, our eyebrows instinctively rise and fall in a flirtatious pattern. Recognizing this can be very

advantageous to someone looking for romantic interest. It only last about one fifth of a second, so one has to

really be paying attention. If you want to let someone know of your romantic interest, magnify the eyebrow flash,

coupled with a smile.

POINTING - It’s natural for people to point at things that draws their interest, so

pay attention to their feet and hands. On a more subconscious level, people will position themselves so that their

hands, arms, legs, feet, toes and even their entire body at someone they’re interested in. If you want to let

someone know you’re interested in them, turn your body towards them.

BLINKING - Focus on her pupils,

which instinctively dilates when she sees someone, or something that interests her. Likewise, blinking

proportionately increases with this augmentation in pupil size. It is said that you can increase the blinking

rate of your target by blinking more yourself.


FOUR RULES FOR CREATING

ATTRACTION

* If someone hasn’t picked up on your interest, or is not

responding ... Do the opposite of what she’s doing. The opposite of mirroring ... she crosses her arms, you uncross

yours, she uncrosses her legs, you cross yours.

* Physically invade the other person’s territory,

SLOWLY to gradually break down her defense.

* Visual intrusion. Allow the eyes to do the talking for you. Let

them sensuously linger on her lips, neck, throat, collarbone, or breast (places you would like to kiss her).

*

Licking your lips, and narrowing of the eyes (bedroom eyes) also stirs arousal.

* Focus your

full attention on your target ONLY.


SIGNS OF

LYING

* Covering the mouth. People will try to cover it with a manufactured cough.

*

Stroking the nose.

* Closed palms

* Lack of eye contact - Women tend to look up at the ceiling and rub under

their eye to not give direct eye contact.

* Prolonged contact or heavy staring is the throw off method of

covering it up.

* She looks up and to the left ... normally, mentally conjuring up something - she’s lying

*

She looks up and to the right ... normally, she’s recalling an image - she’s not lying

* Minute facial

expressions

* Increased sweating


READING POSTURE

* Open posture

and leaning forward - an indication that she is responsive to and accepting what you’re telling her.

* Open

posture and leaning backwards - an indication that she is evaluating the information that you are giving her.

*

Closed posture and leaning forward - an indication that she isn’t paying any attention to what you’re saying. She’s

either skeptical or angry at what has been said.

* Closed posture and leaning backwards - an indication that she

wants to flee the situation completely.


SHE’S REJECTING YOU IF...

*

She rubs her nose
* Crosses that arms and legs
* Rubbing the hands or tugging at her ear




DATING YOUNGER WOMEN

THE SPECIFICS... WHAT, WHEN,

HOW WHY, WHERE...

Here are some specific ideas for dating younger women.

REMEMBER: These are WOMEN. They're not a different species.

1) Be Cool, Dude. When most older

guys meet a younger woman that they feel attracted to, they immediately begin to act WEIRD. They stop acting like

"themselves". Now, women don't know what you're like "normally", but they can tell INSTANTLY if you're NOT ACTING

LIKE YOURSELF. Us guys do all kinds of subtle and not-so-subtle little things when we're feeling nervous... and

these things give women the HEEBIE JEEBIES! So be cool. Relax. Don't act like a Wussbag.

2) Treat her like a

BRATTY LITTLE SISTER. Now that you're being "cool", take it to the NEXT LEVEL... Use one of my favorite personal

techniques, and treat her like your BRATTY LITTLE SIS. Tease her. Make fun. It's OK, go for it. Say all the things

you never had a chance to say when you were a freshman. Now's your big chance! And don't worry about it when she

plays "fake mad". Just turn it up some more. Oh, and call her on everything she does, or say that's immature. I

can't go into all the reasons why this is a great idea, but it is. You keep your power, you have all kinds of

opportunities to be Cocky & Funny, and you can always keep things interesting and challenging. Oh, and it's

COMPLETELY different than the way most Wussies treat her... which is good.

3) Don't try to follow or get her to

lead. Women in general are not attracted to men who don't take the lead... and younger women are no exception. In

fact, younger women have less experience in life, so trying to get them to lead and tell you what they want you to

do is just a horrible idea. Don't do it. You lead. You decide where you're going. You make the rules. If you try

to make her the boss, you'll run her off faster than you can say "I touch myself."

4) Don't try to take

advantage of the situation. Most attractive young women have had at LEAST one "icky older guy" that "tried

something" with her. Younger women are HYPER-ALERT when it comes to sketchy behavior. If you try to take advantage

of the situation or try to "make a move" too early, you'll most likely signal to her that you're a "perv" and that

you aren't to be trusted. Lean back. Chill. Give her room. When you walk down the street with her, bump into her

and push her AWAY from you. Tell her not to walk too close to you... tell her that other people might think

something. If you're alone with her in your living room, don't sit right next to her. If she touches you while

talking, don't touch her back... or even make fun of it and say "Keep your hands off the goods."

5) Don't

intrude on or interfere with her life. You must remember that younger women have lives of their own. Often they're

very close to their families, and they're unsure of how their families would respond if they found out that their

pride and joy daughter was dating an older guy. Remember, she just got FREE of the overbearing father... and she

doesn't need a new one. Don't call her at work, don't show up to see her unexpectedly, and don't embarrass her.

If you want to make an attractive young woman perform magic (the instant disappearing act), just interfere with her

life. She's free, so let her be free. Encourage it, even. Don't interfere.

6) Let her come to you... don't

chase her. If you want to make friends with a cat, the best tactic is to IGNORE IT. Cats are interesting creatures.

Have you ever noticed that if you chase a cat, it will run... but if you sit and ignore it, you'll soon find

yourself pushing it off of your lap? Same goes for younger women. Like I just mentioned, younger women have often

just "escaped" from controlling parents, structured lives, and zero freedom. If she's attracted to you, it's not

because you're creating the environment that she just left... it's because you represent something different.

You'll find that if you call her all the time and chase her, she'll be harder to get a hold of, and less likely to

continue to see you. If you let her go, let her live her life, and make yourself more scarce, you'll be more likely

to have her pursuing YOU. Be the man that she's always dreamed about, and then don't chase her.

7) EXPECT her

to change. If you're dating a woman between the ages of 18 and 23, you need to remember that her life is probably

going to change DRAMATICALLY over the next few years. You need to keep an open mind, and not try to restrict or

hinder her options. You need to expect and even encourage her to grow, change, and become all she can be. The

reality is that the chances are SLIM that she's going to be with you in a few years. In fact, the chances are slim

that she's even going to be the same person in a few years. Get over it, and be OK with it. Challenge her to grow,

achieve, and be her best... and don't accept second-class behavior from her. But she's going to change, so expect

it.

8) Be CHIVALROUS. Most younger women have had VERY FEW men in their lives who even know what the word

"Chivalry" means. If you're one of those men, then you need to LEARN what the word means. Opening doors, walking on

the outside of the curb, and pulling out chairs makes a BIG impression on younger women. When you combine a

masculine, powerful presence with chivalry, you will stand out and make yourself VERY intriguing and attractive.



9) Stay totally calm in the face of drama. Younger women often have a lot of drama happening around them, and they

often act dramatic. I could write an entire book about all the things that a young woman has going on around her

that are TOTALLY UNSTABLE... And the most influential one is the other people in her life. If she freaks out about

something, don't let it get to you. Stay cool and calm. Don't try to fix all her problems, and don't try to stand

in for her dad. She isn't looking for advice, so don't give it to her (unless she asks seriously, and in a

non-emotional tone). One of the things that makes you attractive as an older man is the stability that you bring. So

BRING IT.

10) Be conscious of how often you see her and speak with her. Younger women are less in-control of

their emotions... and can become attached more quickly and easily. The "trigger" for a woman "becoming attached" is

how often you see her and talk to her. If you want to trigger the "relationship" mechanism, spend a lot of time with

her. If you DON'T want to trigger those emotions, you need to limit the time you spend with her. As a rule of

thumb, don't see her more than once a week, and don't talk to her more than once or twice a week unless you want

her to start becoming very attached to you. And I don't care what you SAY... it's the AMOUNT OF TIME you spend

with her that makes this determination. Trust me.

UNDERSTAND ATTRACTION: As always, the

most IMPORTANT thing you must understand when dating younger women is how ATTRACTION WORKS. If you don't understand

ATTRACTION, then none of what I just taught you will make a damn bit of difference... In fact, if you don't

understand ATTRACTION, then most of the things I just taught you above will probably BACKFIRE on you. So what's the

best way to learn how to make women feel ATTRACTION for you? In fact, what's the fastest, most efficient, most

complete, most EFFECTIVE way to learn how to make women feel ATTRACTION for you available in the world? Do the

opposite of what you think you should do to win her over. If you put a young, beautiful woman in a guys house on his

couch, he doesn't know the FIRST THING about how to make her feel ATTRACTION for him. He'll do things to please

her, hoping that at some point she begins to get "into the mood"... and then somehow lets him know. It will NEVER

HAPPEN. But if that guy knows the secrets of how to make a woman feel ATTRACTION... and how to smoothly take things

to a physical level without triggering resistance and rejection... then he will be successful almost every

time.

AN IRONIC PROLOGUE: As I sat in Starbucks writing this newsletter on my

laptop, across from me is a couple sitting at a table talking. And guess what? He's obviously older. He's probably

in his early 30s. She looks and sounds like she's around 19 or 20 years old.

It's obvious that this is the

first time that they've met (they're wrapping up their conversation, and she just said "It was nice meeting you").

He wasn't saying much, and she was basically doing all the talking... and boy was she ever talking. About a million

miles a minute...

She was leading the entire conversation, and he was trying to be a "nice guy" and let her

lead things.

She was talking about what life was like before she moved away from her parents.

She was

saying "My parents were overbearing" and talking about what it was like to live at home. The guy was sitting there

nervously talking to her... and fidgeting. She was asking him questions like "What is your family like", and he was

trying to give her "good answers" like "My family is nice, and my parents are sweet" etc.

It was obvious that

she was trying to keep the conversation going, and he was trying his best not to "say anything stupid"... he was

trying to seem like a "nice guy". At one point when she asked him a question, he sat forward, turned his hands up in

the air in a "I'm just a regular guy, nothing special here" gesture, and answered about himself.

They just got

up and left. It was PAINFULLY CLEAR to me that this guy did NOT understand what to do in this situation. He probably

met her online in a chat or on a personals website. He was probably all excited about meeting her. He probably

offered to take her to dinner, and paid for an expensive meal... and maybe even a movie before winding up at

Starbucks. He probably has no idea whether or not she is interested in him, and he will probably go home tonight

wishing he would have kissed her... and wishing he would have "made a move". He didn't get it. DON'T BE

THAT GUY!

One thing to look for when you are unsure of a woman’s interest is

whether the woman is tightly clasping their hands together or crossing their feet at the ankles underneath their

chairs (almost putting their feet behind them). These are signs that they are feeling anxious and are trying to

maintain control over themselves. The hand clasping is a more certain signal (in my experience). The woman is

usually standing when she does this (because she cannot cross her ankles and be ladylike). So, if you move closer,

she may make nervous eye contact with you (if you are the reason why she is feeling that way). If you move farther

away she may relax a bit and try to check you out. If she doesn't change her posture after you change your

position, she is probably not thinking about you/attracted to you.

I should also have mentioned that you can

look at which direction their feet are pointing, and in which direction they are aiming their torsos. Tonight, a

woman who was very interested in me sat down and talked with another man for about five minutes. Nonetheless,

wherever I stood in the room, her feet managed to point toward me. She continually shifted her position so that I

remained in her eyesight. But she did not flip her hair, adjust her clothing, rub her legs, thrust her breasts out

at me, or smile at me, or send any of the classic "I am interested in you" signals (she is probably 30ish). She was

very cool, very subtle. I already knew beforehand she was interested in me but I was somewhat amused AND amazed to

see how she maintained that non-verbal connection with me while maintaining a full conversation with the other man

(and SHE was doing most of the talking). Women send signals men just never realize are there. I am sure the other

guy thought she was into him. She was just being polite and answering his questions.


SELLING

AND INFLUENCING

They’re possibly interested in buying if they are ...

maintaining eye contact, turning their body towards you, nod their head in agreement to what you have to

say.


INCREASING THE PROBABILITY OF A SALE

*

Stand up when greeting someone

* Study their formality and energy level and

match them with your own

* Put forth a strong and effective handshake

* Convey open and relaxed posture



* Allow your body language to match your words

* Move closer to your target

* Keep your hands in neutral

position, and never point

* Use leaning to your advantage:

- LEAN IN to display interest;

- LEAN BACK

when you’re making a point to be taken seriously; and

- MAINTAIN NEUTRAL POSTURE when discussing prices.

*

Allow brief silences

* Make a lasting impression - Stand up straight, give a firm handshake, and

maintain good eye contact when closing a deal.



-------------------------------------
I didn't write any of this, but I

collected bits and pieces as I ran into things here and there. Body Language is hard if ya ask me, but, I can see

where it can be useful!

Hope something in

here helps ya! :wave:

canivaro
02-16-2005, 09:35 PM
if my REP had any value, i'd

REP you NOW. :box:

OK, who's gonna STICKY this?

Icehawk
02-16-2005, 09:36 PM
Great post but I think your font

size control is screwed up , its all over the place :)

MOBLEYC57
02-16-2005, 09:42 PM
Great post but I

think your font size control is screwed up , its all over the place :)
Thanks, CarniV! :sick:

Yeah,

IH, I know. I edited it twice, changed the font sizes, and it looked great. But after I submitted it again, it came

out the same. :think: Sowwy!:run:

belgareth
02-16-2005, 10:06 PM
No problem to fix it for you.

MOBLEYC57
02-16-2005, 10:18 PM
Thanks, Bel! :wave: I think I

got most of the kinks out! :frustrate

Paparazzi
02-16-2005, 10:27 PM
It is very interesting

indeed.

Some things are classics but it's good to be reminded.

SirAngel
02-17-2005, 12:33 AM
Great notes ..:type: thanks

Mobley:thumbsup:

platinumfox
02-17-2005, 05:18 AM
I just picked up a book on

body language so I'll add anything else as I am reading.This should be a sticky thread.

MOBLEYC57
03-28-2005, 01:29 PM
I just picked

up a book on body language so I'll add anything else as I am reading.This should be a sticky thread.
Any

new additions, PFox? :sick:

I've noticed lately that when I'm working at getting my throne back at MiniPool,

I cross my ankles realllll tightly while playing. Any thoughts, 'cause this is definitely new to me? :think:

seduceme
03-28-2005, 04:13 PM
The median 22yr old woman gets

laid twice as often than the median 22yr old man. This draws to the conclusion that most 22yr old guys dont get laid

quite often, and that a handful get laid all the time, with alot of different partners.

Now I agree in

everything thats written here, this is VERY good material for guys who are pretty much clueless. This stuff alone

WILL get you laid, liked, in a relationship, whichever preference you might have.


BUT(you knew it was

coming), one thing I have to comment on in this text is that alot of it is based on calibrating. Meaning you CARE

what she thinks of you. Trying to read if she's interested, or attracted.

Me, I say SCREW THAT THINKING!

Assume there is attraction and maintain that frame of mind! If you behave like they are attracted to you and you

maintain that reality they'll soon be sucked into it. And if you dont give a flying * if they like you or

dont(simply assuming they do) then you come off as strong and manly(read: leading) as possible. That is attractive.

Furthermore to evolve away from bodylanguage specifics I can add that bodylanguage is just a reflection of you state

of mind and emotion. What you believe.

Believe you are attractive and you'll behave attractively(where

bodylanguage is a part of that behavior). Instead of focusing on do A and B and C and D to reflect attraction, try

to imagine you two are in the bedroom about to have sex, then that triangular gaze, the soft bedroom eyes, the soft

sensual movements will all come naturally.

This is ofcourse advancing from the specifics of bodylanguage,

its insightful to learn but this is much more effective in application. Try it..

Flash1
03-28-2005, 06:34 PM
Great post MOBLEYC57 ........ All

this nlp stuff is in a book I read called 'Sales Majic' by Kerry L Johnson and it is very effective.

silksand
03-28-2005, 08:06 PM
BUT(you knew

it was coming), one thing I have to comment on in this text is that alot of it is based on calibrating. Meaning you

CARE what she thinks of you. Trying to read if she's interested, or attracted.

Me, I say SCREW THAT

THINKING! Assume there is attraction and maintain that frame of mind! If you behave like they are attracted to you

and you maintain that reality they'll soon be sucked into it. And if you dont give a flying * if they like you or

dont(simply assuming they do) then you come off as strong and manly(read: leading) as possible. That is attractive.

Furthermore to evolve away from bodylanguage specifics I can add that bodylanguage is just a reflection of you state

of mind and emotion. What you believe.

I think this could be effective, as a style... if it's all

about style. If she's someone who only takes you in skin-deep.

Style is nice - it's like dessert. It

won't sustain you long, though.

surfs_up
03-28-2005, 08:35 PM
It's called active listening. It means taking an active interest in what the other person is saying.

Especially trying hard to take in the full gestalt of where that person is coming from. It ranges from frustrating

to infuriating when you're across from a self involved asshole (or ashollette) who isn't bothering; why ? They

were raised like princes and princesses who could do no wrong ? People exist to provide them with entertainment ?

They're fucked up on heroin ? Their sole source of information about life comes from music videos ? They think

their tits or their dick is/are a sufficient source of wonderment and no other conversational exertions are

necessary ? They only speak a near extinct Turko-Urgic dialect known in three Anatolian sheep herding communities

?
I well remember the most beautiful Moroccan girl, she was moderately insecure, she didn't have much to add

to the conversation, and how much she opened up when I began to ask her to tell us about what it meant to be a child

growing up in Morocco, how her early life was so unlike Americans... she was bowled over that someone would want to

know about her culture, her life, how she was shaped by the events around her as a kid... she was so accustomed to

being categorized as a beautiful, exotic, slender goddess, which she was, she was not accustomed to being taken

seriously as a rich source of information about another culture. She had gotten the idea, probably unfortunately all

too true, that she was expected to hang back and make her date look good. Lucky for her she found a great guy, I

think they got married and lived happily ever after, or maybe she shot him in a dispute over a couscous recipe and

she fled back to Tangier to nurse baby camels... life is unpredictable.

bindy
03-28-2005, 08:46 PM
Most of this is very good, and

right on target.

I look up and to the Left if I'm thinking, hardly ever look up and to the right.
I think that

might be a L brain, R brain thing.

The bratty little sister thing can only go so far, so go easy on that until

you are sure she's interested. I hate to be teased by guys that I don't care for, but once I do care for them, it

can be fun to an extent.

Take the lead, be in control of the situation, but DON'T be controlling. Yes ignore

to an extent, be interested, seemingly not in a sexual sense until you're sure she's interested. One of my

favorite comments is, "I'm concerned about....." Wow, they're concerned about me, now that's sexy.

A guy

with a life is a turn on. Can't stand guys that don't have other things to do and grovel at my feet. Bleh! Not

attractive.

A winning smile is one of the best things, and a great sense of humor.
Just my 2 cents.
Bindy

silksand
03-28-2005, 09:25 PM
Now that you mention it, Bindy,

that part about observing eye movements to detect lying is easily misinterpreted, the way it is phrased. As written:



"* She looks up and to the left ... normally, mentally conjuring up something - she’s lying

* She

looks up and to the right ... normally, she’s recalling an image - she’s not lying

This is correct for MOST

people, not all - some of us are "switched" and there're nothing wrong with that, it's just a variant of normal.

BUT, it is correct if you understand it to mean that as you are facing her, she looks up and to HER left (which

would be YOUR RIGHT) - that is visual memory. Up and to one's own left = visual recall. Up and to one's own right

= visual construction. This is usually linked to how people "see" their timeline - past to the left, future to the

right. But again, there is *lots* of variation in how folks are "wired" and you can only depend on this tidbit if

you have reliably calibrated with the person first, before using it to detect lying.

silksand
03-28-2005, 09:30 PM
Surfsup, I really appreciate

your post about active listening and the Moroccan woman. It is a beautiful thing when you can elicit and honestly

respond to someone's inner self, how they feel about what truly makes them themselves, instead of falling for

appearances as it is so easy to do. THAT will get you everywhere you want to go, with women and with people in

general. Because it is a real human connection, and being truly seen and known and accepted are things that we all

crave. Thanks for telling us her story.

satyrboy
03-28-2005, 09:41 PM
Here's a completely crazy idea

that could just work:
Be yourself. Be forthright and open. Try your best to be a thoughtful date and a

gentleman. LISTEN to what she says.
Best thing about it is you don't even have to pretend to be anyone else.



Call me crazy, call me a rebel, but I think I might be on to something here...

bindy
03-28-2005, 09:54 PM
You are so right Silksand, didn't

really think of it that way.

And Satyrboy, I agree, how can you expect someone to like you if you're
not being

yourself. I've known plenty of seemingly geeky guys, who turned
out to be very hot, just because of their

confidence, sincerity, and warmth.

Bindy

Watcher
03-28-2005, 10:53 PM
Good points all round - depends if

youre playing with attention seeking women (usually 9s or 10s on attraction scale) or someone whos going to stick

around longer than 5 minutes - might be a 6 or 7

Of course you can get a 10 who is completley loyal as well

im just generalising above but both approaches work but if youre a walkover whining male in real life and a turnoff

to most women - being youreself at that stage is a loss making strategy you need to change

wood elf
03-29-2005, 03:18 AM
Here's a

completely crazy idea that could just work:
Be yourself. Be forthright and open. Try your best to be a thoughtful

date and a gentleman. LISTEN to what she says.
Best thing about it is you don't even have to pretend to be anyone

else.

Call me crazy, call me a rebel, but I think I might be on to something here...
You have the

right idea. It sounds like your wife is a lucky woman.

surfs_up
03-29-2005, 07:13 AM
in the final analysis you need *content* that is congruent with your level of style.

I think the person who has traveled widely (let's make a distinction here between *travel*, where you try to

understand the language, the culture, values, issues of the place you travel to, and *tourism* where the locals

serve as a stage set, flunkies to bring you drinks, change your sheets, sell you useless crap)... well, lets say the

person has travelled, he/she has integrated into a foreign culture or two, or mastered a subject that requires no

small self discipline, had some complex meaningful relations with complex meaningful people who didn't immediately

offer comforting confirmation to one's pre-existing biases about the way that things are, or should be, or would be

if God got his self down here and straightened out these heathen bums, and maybe read 10 or 20 difficult books that

rose well above the standard of trashy bestsellers... yeah, that person is going to have something to say, there are

dimensions to that person's being that won't be there in another person who does nothing but talk drivel into

their cell phone and flip impatiently through magazines... the take away lesson is that you have to work hard at

life if you want to differentiate yourself from the herd... and you don't have to... one may choose to do nothing,

never grow or expand, be comfortable, self satisfied, and take the easy way out of any problems that come up in

life. Now, if such a person then decides that their "problem" is a general lack of style they're making what the

philosophers call an *attribution error*... they attribute their lack of connection to failing to hold the right

pose, being overweight, ordering the wrong drink... but that's all a great mistake... if someone is basically

empty, vacuous and they have a pretty lacquered shell of mannered behaviors you can't help but feel weirdness and

hollowness around this person, like talking into a large empty room where you only hear the echo.... OTOH, you talk

to a person who has lived a ton, they know stuff *first hand*, they know details about life and people you can only

know from full sensory engagement, when you talk to this person you feel like there are layers upon layers, each

depth leads to another depth, you might not find it necessary to attempt to seduce this person, he or she would see

right though you anyway, so you have no option but to be real...

seduceme
03-29-2005, 10:12 AM
I think this

could be effective, as a style... if it's all about style. If she's someone who only takes you in skin-deep.



Style is nice - it's like dessert. It won't sustain you long, though.

Care to elaborate?

seduceme
03-29-2005, 10:15 AM
Here's a

completely crazy idea that could just work:
Be yourself. Be forthright and open. Try your best to be a

thoughtful date and a gentleman. LISTEN to what she says.
Best thing about it is you don't even have to

pretend to be anyone else.

Call me crazy, call me a rebel, but I think I might be on to something

here...


Call me even crazier but what about changing yourself, your inner core to a more

attractive one? Thus you never need to put on an act, no need to try to be someone else, no need to try to be

something.

silksand
03-29-2005, 10:34 AM
Care to

elaborate?

surf's up just said it; see above - I especially liked the last part:

"...if

someone is basically empty, vacuous and they have a pretty lacquered shell of mannered behaviors you can't help but

feel weirdness and hollowness around this person, like talking into a large empty room where you only hear the

echo.... OTOH, you talk to a person who has lived a ton, they know stuff *first hand*, they know details about life

and people you can only know from full sensory engagement, when you talk to this person you feel like there are

layers upon layers, each depth leads to another depth, you might not find it necessary to attempt to seduce this

person, he or she would see right though you anyway, so you have no option but to be real."

This is so

refreshing to read here!

Style/content: If you have great content (which requires living fully, honestly,

deeply) you will have little need to study style, in order to connect with others on the same level.

seduceme
03-29-2005, 11:33 AM
Allright i got ya, but still

even if your style is to assume attraction/likability in others then its easier done with something to back that up

with, say experience and knowledge?

I know people who have lived life, gone through hell and back but lack

social skills. Then I know people who are socially skillful and can bullshit to the break of dawn without really

having experienced anything in life.

The word youre looking for would be incongruecy. The wierdness or

hollowness is something socially intelligent people feel and pickup on when a person is being incongruent. Fake it

'til you make it, but by all means make it!

seduceme
03-29-2005, 11:36 AM
Style/content:

If you have great content (which requires living fully, honestly, deeply) you will have little need to study style,

in order to connect with others on the same level.


Disagree, then youre limited to people 'on

the same level' and the more you live life the more limited your targetcrowd will be. Just because you are

experiencing things doesnt necessarily mean they are beneficial for your socialskills.
For example lets say you

experience a wonderful life, and then share them with new people, you might come of as a braggart, someone who is

flaunting their experiences making their hopeful friends feel insecure, inferior and jealous. Not a very good

outcome no? Connection is achieved through rapport, rapport is established with people who share

commoness(spellcheck?) towards one another.

DrSmellThis
03-29-2005, 11:43 AM
in the final

analysis you need *content* that is congruent with your level of style. I think the person who has traveled widely

(let's make a distinction here between *travel*, where you try to understand the language, the culture, values,

issues of the place you travel to, and *tourism* where the locals serve as a stage set, flunkies to bring you

drinks, change your sheets, sell you useless crap)... well, lets say the person has travelled, he/she has integrated

into a foreign culture or two, or mastered a subject that requires no small self discipline, had some complex

meaningful relations with complex meaningful people who didn't immediately offer comforting confirmation to one's

pre-existing biases about the way that things are, or should be, or would be if God got his self down here and

straightened out these heathen bums, and maybe read 10 or 20 difficult books that rose well above the standard of

trashy bestsellers... yeah, that person is going to have something to say, there are dimensions to that person's

being that won't be there in another person who does nothing but talk drivel into their cell phone and flip

impatiently through magazines... the take away lesson is that you have to work hard at life if you want to

differentiate yourself from the herd... and you don't have to... one may choose to do nothing, never grow or

expand, be comfortable, self satisfied, and take the easy way out of any problems that come up in life. Now, if such

a person then decides that their "problem" is a general lack of style they're making what the philosophers call an

*attribution error*... they attribute their lack of connection to failing to hold the right pose, being overweight,

ordering the wrong drink... but that's all a great mistake... if someone is basically empty, vacuous and they have

a pretty lacquered shell of mannered behaviors you can't help but feel weirdness and hollowness around this person,

like talking into a large empty room where you only hear the echo.... OTOH, you talk to a person who has lived a

ton, they know stuff *first hand*, they know details about life and people you can only know from full sensory

engagement, when you talk to this person you feel like there are layers upon layers, each depth leads to another

depth, you might not find it necessary to attempt to seduce this person, he or she would see right though you

anyway, so you have no option but to be real...Nice post! Lately I have also been trying to provide a more

real alternative to "seduction theory" here. Let's not kid ourselves. It depends on who you really are, and how you

relate as a person. That is the whole basis for it all. If you can't get it on that level, you can't get it.



You don't want to just attract idiots who can't see beyond your game. But this is the consequence of being

"game-based".

DrSmellThis
03-29-2005, 11:49 AM
Disagree, then

youre limited to people 'on the same level' and the more you live life the more limited your targetcrowd will be.

Just because you are experiencing things doesnt necessarily mean they are beneficial for your socialskills.
For

example lets say you experience a wonderful life, and then share them with new people, you might come of as a

braggart, someone who is flaunting their experiences making their hopeful friends feel insecure, inferior and

jealous. Not a very good outcome no? Connection is achieved through rapport, rapport is established with people who

share commoness(spellcheck?) towards one another.This is a confusing post to me. Someone with great content

won't come across lame like that. It's not just about travelling.

seduceme
03-29-2005, 11:52 AM
Nice post!

Lately I have also been trying to provide a more real alternative to "seduction theory" here. Let's not kid

ourselves. It depends on who you really are, and how you relate as a person. That is the whole basis for it all. If

you can't get it on that level, you can't get it.

You don't want to just attract idiots who can't see

beyond your game. But this is the consequence of being "game-based".


In a sense that's also

settling for your level of sexuality in the hierarchy of human mating. There are guys who get laid, laid alot, and

with highstatus stunning looking women. Then there are alot of guys who dont get laid at all.

So if you feel

like simply accepting your position without striving to be better, get better or have better circumstances sexually

thats fine by me. But if youre not , then shape up and transform, evolve.

surfs_up
03-29-2005, 12:22 PM
Everybody knows or has witnessed someone who is socially crippled as a consequence of bad

habits established in childhood, say that have socially awkward parents who dodn't have such a great relationship,

and the kid has no other models for one-on-oneness than the awkward, not too connected thing that his/her parents

are trapped in... but the kid grows up thinking this is normal, or just doesn't get it about finer social points,

without some major social training that kid is going nowhere, romancewise, unless he/she is rich as hell and is

surrounded by pseudo friends who'll overlook his deficiencies... there was an apalling documentary on one of the

cable channels about 3 or 4 young adults who were heirs to large fortunes, all trying to be liked, find a place in

the world for themselves... and they were so pathetic, clueless trying to buy their way through life, surrounded by

bottom feeding hustlers or adult nannies who practically had to wipe their bums for them... they had some of the

basics established, reasonably good DNA, nice othodontia, no pimples or disfiguring scars... but no experience in

the tricks of the trade in making it through life either...
I had a friend once, outrageously handsome guy,

excellent dancer, had all the patter down, knew how to pose, women threw themselves at him... he never had to work

at getting sex, sex came to him... as he moved into his thirties all manner of absurd realtionship problems

surfaced, he began looking like his old dad, he couln't handle losing his looks, and he hadn't done much in the

emotional or intellectual development department, so he begins dating younger and younger (read: less critical, more

easily impressed with his quick rap) women, until it went from being charming-risque to strange and pathetic... then

he started frantically trying to dig himself out of the hole he's so efficiently buried his mind in twenty years

before.... that's all terrifying and funny 'cause I hung around him, picking up all the little pointers from his

life of studness... some were valuable to know, some were misguided and useless. I was constantly trying to show him

points I'd learned in my less than stud existence, often he'd laugh in derision, ya know, how could you be sucha

dork man, then one day it hits him like a landslide that maybe I had some useful information after all, by then the

accumulated momentum of his life inexorably flowed him into a hard place where cooleness won't get a roof over your

head....

DrSmellThis
03-29-2005, 12:38 PM
Seduceme: No, the point is to

focus on the human content and reality of human relationships. Everyone has light years of room to improve on that,

so there is no "settling" for your "place". That approach does change your real place in the

"hierarchy," making you eligible for a much higher caliber of woman for you.

You might have it backwards a

little bit.

Seduction games, on the other hand, don't really change your place on a deep,

permanent level very well; though they might get you laid for a night a number of times.

Most people want the

hot chick to stick around, however; and/or to attract those who aren't just interested in a quick romp in the sack

(not that romps aren't good to have too, but the reality approach also improves your chances at that). Nothing

beats real, deep companionship with a totally hot, wonderful woman (for me, anyway).

silksand
03-29-2005, 12:46 PM
Great thread.

Seems

like there is a conflict of values being expressed here -

Is your highest value:
A: Getting laid (by

high-status "10s"), seeking to both express and advance one's social status by laying "better" chicks. "fast

seduction" has much to offer you, in this case.

B: Growing and deepening as a person, living the best life

you can, which will include partnering (on more levels than just sex) with those on the same level of consciousness

and with congruent life goals. Yes, you do limit your "pool" but believe me, that is the farthest thing from

"settling" you can imagine.

DumLuc
03-29-2005, 01:01 PM
Hear Hear, those last two posts,

by Doc and Silky were excellent.

surfs_up
03-29-2005, 02:12 PM
Social expertise never hurts and, all other things being equal, it can sure enough be a tie

breaker. For example , my father had Tourette's Syndrome, and let me tell you, if there is ever a negative social

problem to be stuck with, Tourette's has to rank in the top ten... a Tourette's sufferer will explode in

spontaneous cursing and freakish gesturing for a few seconds then return to normal. We now know that Tourette's can

be an autoimmune problem, as we think it was in my father's case. Needless to say, this was a socially limiting

behavior of the gravest kind. Today he would be given medicine, counseling where he could manage it, and we'd know

that it was a condition that had a name.... alright, so as a kid I naturally modelled my father as all kids do who

want to be like their dad, including the Tourette's... it actually felt really good to have a wild thrashing

emotional release now and then and I just could not understand how the other kids could be be so constipated and

buttoned down. Lucky me, I could have my personal exorcism ritual and head off ulcers, cancers, stress related

problem with a nice personal freakout.
Sadly for me, my classmates and age cohort didn't understand the

primal value of unrestrained bugging just for the heck of it, resultantly I didn't have as rich of a social life as

I might otherwise. Groovy girls didn't get it. It didn't go over well at parties. Regardless of my other virtues,

faux-Tourette's was costing me, bigtime.
Later on in life I discovered acting and was fortunate enough to

have some excellent teachers who knew how to work with the energy, which there was a lot of, so we could focus it,

refine it for comedic or dramatic purposes. Then it became a load of fun to play with once it was socially "in

tune"...
Sometimes it takes expert consultation to identify exactly what personal traits are limiting then do

something interesting, conscious, and creative with them. I noticed that it turns people on when they pick up that

you're self aware and intentional enough to clean up your act where it needs cleaning up, and then you've got the

juice to do something productive with it, outside the envelope of expectations...
Take home lesson: the same

patterns that can make you a flaming jerk if used unconsciously can make you present and compelling if used

consciously. Up 2 U.

satyrboy
03-29-2005, 08:24 PM
Call me even

crazier but what about changing yourself, your inner core to a more attractive one? Thus you never need to put on an

act, no need to try to be someone else, no need to try to be something.
Bearing in mind everyone should

try to improve themselves, I'm generally happy with my inner core. Seems to suffice for my wife, child, and

friends. Seemed to be adequate when I was single.

MOBLEYC57
04-12-2005, 03:12 PM
My bad, Sigfree. :frustrate

Thought it was somewhere in here.

Dilated pupils is a sign of excitement ... good and/or bad. :drunk: If

they're smiling, talking, and appears relaxed ... good sign! :cheers: