Choosing the right Pheromone (Man attract Man)... Please Help!

[Happy Jack]

Hi Guys & Girls,

I have lurked here for a while now, and searched around the boards

for an answer to my question.

I did try to search out the answer first, before starting a new post.. I

couldn't find it, hence my first ever post :D

I am really interested in obtaining a gay pheromone

attractant.

Now I know from the posts I have read here from the archive, that there is no pheromone designed

specifically for this purpose :(

I had found a pheromone called "Man2Man", but I didn't see any references to

this in the forum, or listed on the shopfront, So I thought better of ordering it..

I appreciate that most of

you guys are straight and would't know which pheromone worked this way. It's just I'd really like to be able to

wear a pheromone that is designed to attract men.

To this end, I read here that gay men should use the

pheromones designed for women to attract men. Now I have no problem with this (it sounds great!), my only concern is

that I don't want to wear a pheromone that makes me smell like a women (perfumed and the like!!)

Is there any

unscented pheromones designed to attract men, that would be suitable for both women and gay men.

I have to

admit that I don't want to wear a perfurmed pheromone, because not everyone knows that I am gay, and I don't want

to wear a strongly scented pheromone. I work in a pretty male-dominated workplace, and I don't want anyone to laugh

at me if I wear a perfurmed mone....

Please, please, please some suggestions.. I'm open to all product

suggestions.. I don't care if it takes me 5 different products to get the results..

Hope to hear all of the

expert opinions :)

[CptKipling]

Did you read the newbie guide

in the pherolibrary? Link at the top-right of your screen.

To answer a question with a question (sorry), would

gay men be aroused by copulins (so is it a condidtioned responce)? If not (which I suspect is the case), yuo would

need the copulin products which are most of the scented womens products.

[Marlboro_man]

Did you

read the newbie guide in the pherolibrary? Link at the top-right of your screen.

To answer a question with a

question (sorry), would gay men be aroused by copulins (so is it a condidtioned responce)? If not (which I suspect

is the case), yuo would need the copulin products which are most of the scented womens products.
I don't

know the answer the question, but if I were to take a guess I would assume Cops don't turn on a gay man since they

come from the vagina.

[Marlboro_man]

Actually I was just

thinking to my self about my lesbian friend since I last posted. She is true lesbian, not bi and everytime I wear

heavy none she starts sniffing me and telling me things like I smell really good for a guy. I don't know if this

helps you but I thought I would bring it up.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Attracting other

males is not my goal, but I would think that a gay guy wouldn't be attracted to a guy who smelled like a woman or

like he just had sex with one. I would think that the products formulated for men would be the ones to

use.

Maybe something like WAGG and/or SOE unisex (unscented) would be the best bet. I've read in the

archives that the combination of the two in too much of a quantity gave a gay impression of the wearer to

others.

I work around mainly men and have gained a lot of respect from my cow-orkers since I've started to

wear Chikara regularly. None of them are gay (that I know of), so I don't know about it being an attractant to them

otherwise. Maybe that, with a heavy addition of WAGG would do the trick.

My suggestion would be to try some

of the gel packs to see if they work if you don't want to invest in a full bottle of anything at first. They come

in SOE, TE and Chikara "flavors." I think the AE ones are only available during free sample offers. A couple of the

women's products are offered in the gels too, so again, you could see if the scent would be compatable with what

you want. I still think though, that a men's product is what you would want to attract other gay men.

[CptKipling]

I don't

know the answer the question, but if I were to take a guess I would assume Cops don't turn on a gay man since they

come from the vagina.
I was asking if it was a hard-wired responce or a conditioned responce, I know it

wouldn't make sense if cops aroused gay men but they might if it was hard-wired. However, if the olfactory system

of gay males isn't differentiated properly from a females, then gay men wouldn't have the hard-wiring.

[Happy Jack]

Thanks for all the replies

thus far..

I did read the pheromone articles in the library, which gave me the point that I should use womens

pheromones to attract gay men.

Now I'm confused with some of the postings about using the normal male

pheromones. Aren't these made to work just to attract women?

This may sound insane to some of you guys.. but

I'd rather not attract women :D.. I want a pheromone that will attract men, and If that means to try a womens

pheromone, then would it be better to use and unscented one?.. I'd really prefer to have an unscented one - that

way I can still wear my own (usual) cologne...


I work around mainly men and have gained a lot of respect

from my cow-orkers since I've started to wear Chikara regularly. None of them are gay (that I know of), so I don't

know about it being an attractant to them otherwise. Maybe that, with a heavy addition of WAGG would do the

trick.
With this WAGG or Chikara (both are for men to attract women, right???)... I like like the idea of

respect from men in the workplace, but ideally am looking for that little stage beyond respect ;) :D ... I don't

want respect... I want attraction :D :D

Looking at this so far.. are there any specific non-scented womens

pheromones any of you pheromone-experts would suggest???..

I'm not looking for guarantees or anything.. just

your product recommendations, or what products you would think would work..

So far I have in my list..



WAGG
SOE

Both are for men to attract women?.. or will they work both ways..

What about some of the

womens pheromones, and thoughts on which one of those I should look at.??? .. Once I get a list - I'll order either

samples, or full bottles.. Money isn't really a big factor here.. most important is finding the right product :)



Again, many thanks to everyone who has put their thoughts in.. Please let's hear some more expert opinions on

this :)

[MOBLEYC57]

So far I

have in my list..

WAGG
SOE

Both are for men to attract women?.. or will they work both

ways..

Gay men would be more attracted to more manly men (testosterone filled = PI), yes? :think:

[Mtnjim]

You might want to look at:


http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11557



http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9326



http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1976



http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11557

You might have to copy and paste the links.



As you can see, this has been discussed before.

Good Luck!!

[Jonathan]

"Male" vs. "Female" 'mones: First, it's important to remember that there aren't really any

"male pheromones," or at least none that are on the market. Sure, there are 'none and 'rone, but it's important

to remember that both men and women produce them, but in different ratios. (Androstadienone may be an

exception.) 'Nol, in particular, has been shown to be somewhat of a unisex pheromone, and produces (IIRC) an

increase in LH in both men and women. The difference between most male-market and female-market pheromones are

twofold: first, male-market 'mones tend to have higher ratios of 'none to 'rone and 'nol, and second,

female-market 'mones generally contain copulins, which male-market 'mones don't. Which is best for a homosexual

male? Good question. First question first:

'None, 'rone and 'nol ratios:

Here are a few

things that JVK had to say (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10011):


Animal

models of male homosexuality strongly suggest that the anomaly is that the homosexual males respond to the

pheromones of males in a manner that would be typical of their heterosexual counterparts response to estrus

females.

Accordingly, gay males should use male pheromones to attract other gay males. A preliminary report

showed that homosexuals distinguish between heterosexual and homosexual natural body odor and prefer the natural

body odor of other homosexuals. This adds further support for the gay male to use male pheromones. That

would say that you should in general use the same things that men use to attract women. (Yes, that will attract

women as well, which is something that you said you wanted to avoid, but it seems that just about everything that

gay males do does, so I think you should just give up on that. Women love gay men. Live with it.) I figure

that would relate particularly well to 'none, since that's the closest thing we have to a let's-have-sex-now

pheromone (i.e., the kind of pheromone that estrus females--females in heat--emit). So I would try about the same

amount of 'none that straight dudes use to attract women. Keep in mind, of course, that 'none is very easy to OD

with, and the amount that will produce an OD reaction is much more variable with 'none than 'rone or 'nol, and is

affected by conversion, buildup, and natural production much more than the others. You'll have to play with this to

find your optimal dosage.

Kohl also said that there are differences between the scent of heterosexual and

homosexual males. Now, that isn't to say that homosexual males are more feminine; that may be the case, but

it's not necessarily so. We just don't know enough to say conclusively either way. However, I would presume that

gay males do NOT smell like women, on a number of grounds. First, a female acquaintance of mine can allegedly tell

the difference between heterosexual male and homosexual male scent, and she says that gay men smell pretty much like

straight men, but that they smell "more like ass". I don't think that's a very feminine smell. Second, if gay men

had feminine 'mone signatures, then straight men would be attracted to them. I don't think that's the case. As a

result, I would guess that gay men either smell more masculine than straight men, or that the difference cannot be

explained in a simple feminine-masculine continuum.

Also, I remember JVK saying something in another post

somewhere about the ratio of "A to E", as he said it. The "A" was androsterone, one of the components of his

SOE. The "E", though, was a pheromone that isn't included in any known product to date. I don't remember what it

was exactly, but it began (I think) with "estra-" and ended with "-ol". (No, it was not estradiol.) Anyway, JVK said

that he had found that this ratio is somehow implicated in whether someone is seen as straight or gay (or even

female? Can't remember). I can't remember which orientation corresponded to which ratio, but bjf said in one of

the links above that a lower A/E ratio is had by both women and gay men.

A lot of 'nol would probably be a

good idea. 'Nol seems to make both sexes happy.

Copulins: Copulins seem to turn on both men

and women. Why is this? Is it because the scent of competition makes women horny? I dunno. But people say it

does, so I believe them. It may also do the same for gay men. It's difficult to say. However, if you got some, you

might be able to tell what effect it would have on others by seeing what effect it would have on you. You could try

putting some on your upper lip. If it works, you should experience an increase in testosterone, which would make you

feel stronger, more energetic, a bit happier, a bit hornier and more aggressive (although the last two traits

probably wouldn't be manifest except in company).

JVK has also been doing a fair amount of research on the

subject of homosexual pheromones recently. You can find one article on page 19 of

this PDF (http://www.theascapsociety.org/assets/tas/001/bulletin/02_3%282%29Jun/02_3%282%29Jun.pdf), and

some more general information in the fifth paragraph of this

page (http:///professional.html).

As for scent: when dealing with women and 'none, a cover scent is absolutely

critical. Women are incredibly sensitive to the scent of 'none alone, and it smells terrible. I think I

remember hearing that women can detect (i.e., consciously perceive) the urine/B.O. smell of 'none at 1/100 to

1/1000 the concentration at which men can detect it. Given, there are a lot of physiological areas in which gay

men resemble women more than straight men (e.g., corpus callosum size), but IIRC, that type of sensitivity has been

linked to estrogen levels, so I'd guess that gay men would only be able to detect 'none as well as straight men.

Therefore, a cover scent probably will not be as important as when dealing with women. You might also be able to get

away with more 'none overall than one would with women. Still, I'd recommend not playing with fire. Get a good

cover scent, even if you're only using scented products.

So, when it comes down to it, what products do

I recommend? I'd probably buy SOE/w (which doesn't have 'rone) and AE/m (with rone) or NPA/m (without rone)

and play with different ratios of the two. WAGG would also probably be good either as a substitute for or a

complement to SOE. I'd guess that for club-type environments, 4-6 drops AE/m or 2-4 drops NPA/m and 6-12 inches

SOE/w would probably do the trick, with maybe a bit of copulins if you can manage it. For other situations, I'd go

for 1-2 drops AE and about the same amount of SOE to lower the aggressive/stinky 'none while keeping a good amount

of friendly 'nol. Also, if you had to deal with a lot of homophobia at work or something, you might be able to use

SOE/m or AE/m to help you stay in the closet. Just a thought.

Chikara might also be interesting, but as I

don't own it, I don't know enough about it to guess how it might affect gay men.

[DrSmellThis]

Chikara plus -none products.

Avoid high -rone products like Perception, I would guess.

[Watcher]

Ive used nearly all the products

here in 7 years and the best one i foudn for attracting gay guys (unintentional in my case) was attraction high in

Anol with some Anone guess it helped. ? hope it helps.

Alter ego for women could also be a good call

[deepblue]

The gay pheros in the

"manstouch" link contain ....
"Androstenone"

So I guess when it comes down to it the

pheros are all the same, just the sexual preference is different.

[FieroMoan]

Hmmmm, why was my post

deleted????!:mad:

[oscar]

Hmmmm, why was my

post deleted????!
FieroMoan,

Your post was deleted because it contained SEVEN links to other

pheromone websites. If you had taken the time to read the sticky threads you would know that forum policy prohibits

that. They also tell you that if you have a question about why a post of yours was deleted, you should send a

Private Message to a moderator.

Oscar
Moderator
Love-Scent Forums

[FieroMoan]

FieroMoan,



Your post was deleted because it contained SEVEN links to other pheromone websites. If you had taken the time to

read the sticky threads you would know that forum policy prohibits that. They also tell you that if you have a

question about why a post of yours was deleted, you should send a Private Message to a moderator.

Oscar


Moderator
Love-Scent Forums
Thanks for the clarification. It's just that I have been a member of

several boards and not one had a problem with posting links and the only things I know in general not to post are

things unrelated to the board, expletives/obscene words, and other abusive messages. But it's my bad, I should

have still checked first.

[koolking1]

my recommendation would be

Chikara. It seems to make men feel at ease and also respectful of me - guys trying to do things for me for no

apparent reason other than the Chikara.

I had received an advertisement in the mail for gay male products

about 6 months ago (why I got this flyer is beyond me, but I did get it). In it was offered a pheromone product and

if my memory serves me correctly it was "man2man". Being curious and always on the lookout for ways to help my

fellow LS forum posters (the finest people in the world in my estimation, save one) I queried the company as to

pheromone content and levels - they wrote me back declining to state the contents. I think I posted this here but

don't remember. I would not buy it based upon their refusal to disclose.

In my experience with women, I

have come to believe that almost all of them are at least a tiny bit bisexual so it makes sense that copulins might

work on them (this being in addition to the "competition" factor ("other women like this guy so he must be ok") -

(admittedly I am biased as I hang out with women who are bisexual). I don't think there is a comparable and

available product for gay men.

[Mtnjim]

Just taking a wild guess, but...



If you are a "top" maybe ~none?
If you are a "bottom" maybe ~Nol?
If you are "versatile" ???

[FieroMoan]

My curiosity has been piqued.

It really doesn't make sense to put on a pheromone to attract women when your target audience is male and you are a

man. I don't think you'll convert straight men to become gay for wearing a female pheromone since a person's

sexual orientation is hard-wired. On the other hand, if the guy is 10% gay (since most men, and women, are bisexual

but just at varying degrees) or whatever percentage, he might get drawn to you but just wouldn't mind you being

also a guy. If that guy has thought of you once before, it might have the effect of him thinking about you more

often after you've worn this female pheromone. His 10% homosexual tendencies may have just turned into 25% while

you were wearing it.

Gay men are attracted to men which means they are attracted to the male pheromone. So i

guess, the best pheromone cologne would be one with a great percentage of the male pheromone and a small percentage

of the female pheromone to attract bisexual men who has less than 50% preference for the same sex.

[Watcher]

The one thing that with me anyway

brought gay men out of the woodwork (i got hits left right and centre that i havent had with any other product) was

attraction 70% anol versus 30% Anone - might explain why SOE and NPA had a less but nevertheless gay and straight

reaction (though the DD mix got women as well)

Attraction would be good if youre bisexual for some reason -

maybe the unscented version dunno

[Jonathan]

Fiero: I think your reasoning

is generally sound. Of course, there is a counterexample to the "gay men are attracted to the same pheromones as

straight women are attracted to" rule, but it's not really relevant. (It's interesting, though, so I'll mention

it parenthetically: Gay men have been shown as being able to distinguish between the scents of gay and straight men,

and show a preference for gay men. See also: androsterone/etiocholanolone ratios.) However, the reason why I thought

copulins might (and I emphasize might) work is because, in my experience as well as that of others, copulins

make both (straight) men and (straight) women horny. I remember well the day I went out after giving a girl head

without taking a shower or washing my face, but only putting on a bit of essential oil cover scent (note: I have a

beard, which probably both helped to absorb and disperse the smell of her crotch). Now, if (hypothetically speaking)

all pheromones that work on straight women work on gay men, then copulins would work on gay men. Do copulins work on

gay men? I don't know, but I'd be curious to find out.

Also, I've gotten the impression elsewhere that WAGG

gives off a sort of "gay" vibe. Not sure if this is accurate, but it might be worth a shot if you've got deep

pockets (or a friend with a good toolkit).

'None and 'nol both seem to me to be more or less unisex. When I

wear them, I usually notice effects myself (I'm male). 'Nol usually makes me feel very calm and chill (or at

least, SOE does, so it could be the 'rone), and 'none makes me feel tunnel-visioned, unobservant, aggressive,

jumpy, cocky, sexy, hot-headed, and as if I were looking through a red-tinted veil. Basically, 'none makes me feel

as if my testosterone was shooting through the roof. (At least, I think it does. But I might be confusing a reaction

I remember with something else. Caveat emptor.)

[CptKipling]

good post Jonathan




However, the reason why I thought copulins might (and I emphasize might) work is because,

in my experience as well as that of others, copulins make both (straight) men and (straight) women horny.


I think that is because of the association that is created between the smell and pleasure. It's therefore

unlikely that gay men would have the same experience.

[Jonathan]

I think

that is because of the association that is created between the smell and pleasure. It's therefore unlikely that gay

men would have the same experience. But along that line of reasoning, straight men would find the smell of

semen sexy. I don't think that empirical evidence supports that conclusion.

Besides, that doesn't explain

why women find the I-just-had-sex smell to be sexier than men do. I think it's biological: according to the

evolutionary psychology explanation, women stand to gain from inter-woman cooperation and even lesbianism (helps to

raise children, for example, if you've got girlfriends around to help change the diapers) and from having sex with

alpha males (that is, the ones who get laid the most, and therefore are often smothered in copulins), whereas men

stand to gain by being exclusivist and competitive (sluts--well-traveled, soiled, used women--are NOT sexy. Just

try thinking of what's been in that kitty, and (if you're male) you'll know what I mean). Under this explanation,

though, it is expected that men would find the smell of sex sexy, but only in a violent, aggressive, jealous sort of

way, and only when the man doing the smelling is alpha--a beta male would NOT want to start a fight or a competition

over a girl with an alpha male.

How does that apply to gay males? I have no smegging clue.



Caveat emptor: evolutionary psychology is useful for making hypotheses, but not much more. Pass the salt shaker.



[NOTE: Updated 3/13/05 7:24 PST to clarify unclear prose]

[CptKipling]

True again.

However,

although it doesn't really affect the argument, I would argue that semen isn't as readily smelt as copulins during

sex. And women aren't aroused by the smell of semen either...