Body language part 2 [Archive] - Love-Scent Pheromones Forum

phinmone

01-24-2005, 05:05 PM

try asking for a

kiss...if she likes you,your good to go

i would say, never ask for a kiss. GO for a kiss. there is

this one test you can do for a girl. if this test shows positive signs, you have very good cards to kiss her.

just imagine you ask a girl for a kiss, she says 'no'. this could be just one of the tests she makes on

you. OR it could really mean you are not allowed to kiss her. so by asking you can not always know, especially if

you dont know her well!

i have another personal strategy, that often leads to kissing. but the basic things

is, you have to know there is atleast some positive (sexual) chemistry between you and her. now, you can say to her,

"i have something to tell you", then go near her ear, whisper something or talk in a low resonantic voice. do some

really good voice tonality work and then when you have said in the ear what you wanted to say, then pull your head

head back, but slowly by your cheek touching her cheek, like gliding backwards. hard to explain. talk something (it

does not really matter what) in a deep slow tonlity, pause, continue. if she likes this, she wont pull away.

eventually work your way to her lips. works for me!

Chemist

01-24-2005, 05:11 PM

OMG!

Don't ever F****IN'

ASK FOR A KISS!

Unless, its a wise ass sort of thing.

Just go in for the kiss! Just do it. No

preparing - just do it.

She turns away or worse laughs uncontrollobly - move on!

Gegogi

01-24-2005, 09:03 PM

"You, on the other hand,

need to convey a non-needy, non-wussy, non-eager to please man that is confident and has no need for another women

in his life." I agree, mild disinterest and self-assurance can make certain women want you if you have other

attractive attributes. Of course other "attractive attributes" is the key word here. However, it must be used with

discretion as not all women are the same. In high school we simply called this game playing hard to get. Women play

this game better than most men. When I was younger and dumber I used it, especially when I sensed I had the upper

hand. Once I had them in the pocket I tortured them before presenting my midnight surprise, and usually ended up

dumping them soon after. I was a total ass. However it sometimes backfired with smart women as they sensed they were

being played. Some women that were initially attracted figured my mild disinterest meant I was a playboy with too

much booty on hand. Others thought I was in a relationship or even gay. What I'm trying to say is be flexible and

use the best tool for the job. You'll enjoy more success.

I tired of game playing long ago and now prefer

being simple and direct. If the woman wants me to perform that song and dance, I warn her and, if she persists,

quickly move on. There are lots of women out there...

Marlboro_man

01-25-2005, 12:39 AM

When it says legs are

crossed towards you does that mean the top leg is, the bottom leg is, or the overall direction of both legs at the

knees are?

Marlboro_man

01-25-2005, 12:44 AM

Here are some quick

examples of body language as they realate to this business world primarily but to other aspects of life as

well.

Tightly crossed arms, high on the chest, looks defensive and uninterested
High-pitched,

fast-paced voice may sound girly and lack authority
Rolling on your heels looks like you are insecure

and childish
Lazing about on a chair appears arrogant and lazy
A shoulder shrug signals that you

don’t believe what's been said, even if it was you that said it!</B>
Playing with your hair implies an

inner build-up of anxiety
Pulling your ear gives the impression you're struggling to reach a

decision
Touching your face is a sign of nervousness or possibly even dishonesty
Stroking your neck

can make you seem stressed or flirtatious
Wringing your hands shows concern
Fidgeting suggests

worry
Foot tapping impatience
Pen drumming boredom

Chemist

01-25-2005, 01:32 AM

Off topic - but reply to playing

hard to get.

I never said be disinterested.

In fact, it helps to be interested in her by talking about

her to her. And I further show this by keeping my hands to myself in the beginning. I keep talking and

conversating, all the while making her laugh.

There is a way to show interest without saying it nor doing

those things mommy said to - being nice to her etc.

Hard to get? Sort of. The prize isn't perceived as

worth much if its too easy to get - and she has to come to this realization on her own, all the while feeling an

attraction.

Gegogi

01-25-2005, 02:01 AM

" I never said be

disinterested."I didn't read your posts until now (sorry, I didn't realize you said it first!--thought it

was DumLuc). I was simply drawing a parallel between my juvenile games and the "non-needy, non-wussy don't any more

women in my life" school of fuckenfast.com. My post-pube techniques were pure acting and not a philosophy: you lure

them in, snag 'um, pull away just enough to torture them a bit and swoop in for the kill. That was my juvenile game

plan and it worked well much of the time. The sad thing is I could only be so cold and calculating with women I

didn't particularly like other than for a piece of ass. Glad that stage is long over. Incidentally, I learned the

technique from females I had unsuccessfully woed in college. They used it on me, leaving me feeling rather dickless.

It gives you a false sense of power that, unfortunately, dissipates quickly until you find another mark.

TRock

01-25-2005, 02:07 AM

here are some body language i use.

i used it all my life before i knew it was a part of seduction. since you are the prize: you never give the girl

your body langauge right away. she can receive more body language once she earned it and eventually get it all if

she is cool enough. like if i'm at a bar getting a drink, i 'll initially talk to a girl but with my body facing

the bar and my head turned towards her. she's doing cool stuff, i'll give her some more body langauge and if she

is cool enough to get into rapport then she'll get full body language. never ever lean in if you can't hear her or

whatever, make her lean in to you.

if i want to see if a girl that i wouldn't talk to is interested in me i

check for pupil dilation. your pupils get dilated when you see something attractive. i do this with girls i just

have to interact with because it's a part of llife like cashiers or customer service type stuff. grooming

themselves, when they run their hand through the side of their hair above their ear. observing if they're being a

little too helpful or smiling at me. i live in the northeast, people don't smile at you for no reason.

Marlboro_man

01-25-2005, 02:28 AM

:goodpost: Thank you Trock

for getting back on track! How easy is it for you to tell if there eyes have dialated? Do you study them first so

that you can tell the difference? Does it happen for an expanded period of time or just a couple of seconds? I

assume you do this while introducing yourself and holding that eye contact longer than normal, is that correct? If

not how are you able to accomplish it without looking obvious?

TRock

01-25-2005, 02:47 AM

you can look in the mirror right

now, they'll be normal size. go look up some porn and see how big they get. you can't really miss it in a girl if

their pupils are dilated. just look into her eyes, that's normal alpha behavior anyways. if you meet somebody

important or powerful when they shake you hands they look you in the eyes and hold the gaze. so while you're

looking check for pupil dilation.

Marlboro_man

01-25-2005, 02:53 AM

Yeah I already hold the

gaze, I was just concerned about looking weird while trying to figure that out. I will work on that skill this week

Trock and let you know the results. One more question for ya, Does this happen only when you first meet someone or

each time you encounter them?

Chemist

01-25-2005, 08:50 AM

I didn't read your

posts until now

You quoted me first thing! How could you not read it, but repond to it by quoting

it!!!!!

Internet communication robs of seeing your beedy little eyes! I need body language cues! HA

Chemist

01-25-2005, 08:51 AM

You quoted me first

thing! How could you not read it, but repond to it by quoting it!!!!!

Internet communication robs of

seeing your beedy little eyes! I need body language cues! HA

<BTW I'm bein a wise ass, I understood

what you really meant>

Friendly1

01-25-2005, 09:50 AM

When it

says legs are crossed towards you does that mean the top leg is, the bottom leg is, or the overall direction of both

legs at the knees are?
Leg crossing is complicated. So is arm crossing. Generally speaking, if she

directs her body toward you, she is interested in you (or someone or something in your vicinity).

To determine

if you are the object of interest, every couple of minutes you should EITHER change your body position (to give her

an opportunity to mirror you) or move to another location.

If she mirrors or follows your change in direction,

she is interested.

Friendly1

01-25-2005, 10:02 AM

Here are

some quick examples of body language as they realate to this business world primarily but to other aspects of life

as well.

Tightly crossed arms, high on the chest, looks defensive and uninterested
Usually

indicates a closed mind. Anyone sitting that way doesn't want to hear what is being said and probably a change in

topic would work better than continuing with whatever is being said.

High-pitched, fast-paced

voice may sound girly and lack authority
Usually indicates nervousness, anxiety, or fear of failure.

People most often lapse into this mode when they are speaking in front of audiences, but it could also be an

indication that someone is lying or trying to cover up something.

Rolling on your heels looks like

you are insecure and childish
Usually indicates a desire or willingness to take action, or a desire to get

away from a situation. Impatience and eagerness are easily confused but a supervisor who is trying to rally the

troops should be encouraged by seeing this kind of reaction.

A shoulder shrug signals that you

don’t believe what's been said, even if it was you that said it!
Not necessarily. A shoulder shrug can

be a sign of resignation (what can we do about it?). A shoulder shrug can be used to reassure someone who is not

feeling positive or supportive of a position being pitched or explained. Shoulder shrugs are dismissive actions,

but the dismissiveness can negative, affirming, or neutral.

Playing with your hair implies an

inner build-up of anxiety
Or intense concentration. It is, however, an immature behavior in men (who are

not expected to have enough hair to play with in most office environments). This is also a classic flirting move

for women, so hair-playing in the office can simply indicate a girl has an interest in someone else nearby.

Pulling your ear gives the impression you're struggling to reach a decision
It can also

mean "I don't want to be hearing this" or "I don't want to be saying this". I have noticed more and more that I

get a little "itch" on one of my ear lobes just before I say something I'd rather not say. Naturally, I reach up

and tug at it to relieve the itch. If I could turn off that itch mechanism, I would be a happier body language

projector.

Touching your face is a sign of nervousness or possibly even dishonesty

Depending on how you touch your face, it can also be a sign of deep thought, grave concern, boredom, or that you

have something on your face.

Stroking your neck can make you seem stressed or flirtatious

Neck-stroking is more common among women than men and it is usually a sign that the girl needs or wants

reassurance OR that she wants a man to appreciate her beauty/youthfulness.

Wringing your hands

shows concern
Or stress or anger or fear (the latter two of which overlap with concern).

Fidgeting suggests worry
Or boredom or pent-up energy or a desire to leave.

Foot tapping impatience
Or anger or just a sense of keeping in time or rhythm with what is

going on (usually when listening to music, but it can happen around noisy environments). Foot-tapping can also,

therefore, be an indication of relaxed contentment.

Pen drumming boredom
Or anger or

deep concentration or anxiety.

Few actions by themselves really disclose what state of mind produced them. Some

actions, when greatly exaggerated (such as crouching to avoid being hurt), are self-explanatory, but most are not.

Friendly1

01-25-2005, 10:07 AM

...you never give

the girl your body langauge right away. she can receive more body language once she earned it and eventually get it

all if she is cool enough.
Don Steele likes to say, You cannot NOT communicate.

So, when you hold back

like that, don't deceive yourself into thinking you are not revealing something about yourself. At the very least,

you are demonstrating some self-control. She may find that appealing. At worst, you may come off as being rigid

and fearful. She probably won't find that appealing. Staying relaxed and confident are key to making it work.

Pupil dilation occurs for other (and many very

common) reasons, too. It is not a controllable behavior and is not a reliable indicator of interest. It is better

to use it as a vindicator of other possble signals of interest.

[quote]grooming themselves, when they run their

hand through the side of their hair above their ear. observing if they're being a little too helpful or smiling at

me. i live in the northeast, people don't smile at you for no reason.
These are good signs to look for.

Friendly1

01-25-2005, 10:11 AM

How easy is

it for you to tell if there eyes have dialated? Do you study them first so that you can tell the difference?

When I first started learning about dilation, I had similar questions. Now, I know what to look for. I Just let

it happen and allow myself to get lost in her eyes.

In a brightly lit room, a girl's pupils will be like small

dots within her irises. If she becomes attracted to me, her pupils will enlarge to the point where they take up

most of the space and the irises are just thin borders around the large black regions.

The old "your eyes are

like limpid pools" line comes back to me in moments like that.

Normally, their pupils don't become so enlarged,

but you can still notice changes if you tease them and don't stare at their eyes for too long.

It's best if

you can lock gazes with a girl. You end up shutting out the whole world and she is focused totally on you. I've

found it difficult to do that with Asian girls, though, as they usually look down or away (out of a cultural

tendency to show respect for others).

When an Asian girl locks eyes with you, that is a BIG thing.

TRock

01-25-2005, 12:15 PM

Don Steele likes

to say, You cannot NOT communicate.

So, when you hold back like that, don't deceive yourself into thinking you

are not revealing something about yourself. At the very least, you are demonstrating some self-control. She may find

that appealing. At worst, you may come off as being rigid and fearful. She probably won't find that appealing.

Staying relaxed and confident are key to making it work.

if i want to see if a girl that i wouldn't talk

to is interested in me i check for pupil dilation. your pupils get dilated when you see something

attractive.Pupil dilation occurs for other (and many very common) reasons, too. It is not a controllable

behavior and is not a reliable indicator of interest. It is better to use it as a vindicator of other possble

signals of interest.

These are good signs to look for.
you're supposed to stay relaxed and

confident at the same time while making her earn your body language. this isn't done all night. i usually end up

facing a girl completely after a few minutes.

shouldn't something that is uncontrollable a better inidicator

of interest. but yeah i used it in conjuction with other cues.

TRock

01-25-2005, 12:21 PM

I've found it

difficult to do that with Asian girls, though, as they usually look down or away (out of a cultural tendency to show

respect for others).

When an Asian girl locks eyes with you, that is a BIG thing.
you have to

differentiate between 1st generation and 2nd generation girls though. the 2nd generation on plays by the regular

rules in my experience because they lost all the cultural stuff growing up in the US.

Marlboro_man

01-25-2005, 03:47 PM

To

determine if you are the object of interest, every couple of minutes you should EITHER change your body position (to

give her an opportunity to mirror you) or move to another location.

If she mirrors or follows your change in

direction, she is interested.
Now I understand that point but alot of what I read says that I should

mirror her to make her feel more comfortable. So in your opinion which is it, should I do the leading or should I

do the mirroring?

Marlboro_man

01-25-2005, 03:49 PM

Usually

indicates a closed mind. Anyone sitting that way doesn't want to hear what is being said and probably a change in

topic would work better than continuing with whatever is being said.

[b]
Usually indicates nervousness,

anxiety, or fear of failure. People most often lapse into this mode when they are speaking in front of audiences,

but it could also be an indication that someone is lying or trying to cover up something.

IN response

to this I should have been a little more specific than just the business world. Really what I meant to write is

more or less someone who is the boss or giving a presentation or speech. Thanks for the better breakdown of what I

wrote.

Gegogi

01-25-2005, 05:10 PM

"you have to differentiate

between 1st generation and 2nd generation girls though. the 2nd generation on plays by the regular rules in my

experience because they lost all the cultural stuff growing up in the US."

Like most things in life,

it depends! Not all first or second generation Asians fall into those stereotypes. I'm a first generation Asian,

born in Korea, and English is my second language. I moved into a white suburb while in grade school and lived

isolated from my culture (my mother married a white guy). I'm Westernized to the max. Gee wilikins, my English is

better than most native speakers I know. I've been told by more traditional Koreans I walk, talk and smell like a

white guy (must be the the NPA)! In contrast, my cousins were born and raised in LA's Korea Town, attending church,

school, etc., with other Koreans. They're bilingual but are more traditional and Korean than I or my sisters.

Although their English is okay, they have obvious accents. Moreover, many of them are more traditional than women in

Korea. Large ethnic communities, islolated from their mainstream culture, often preserve their traditions better

than their native country.

It's wise to forget the formulaic approach and learn to handle Asian women as

individuals for best results. Nothing pisses off an Asian woman more than being stereotyped by someone outside their

race.

Incidentally, Asian men and women in Hawaii--even 4th generation+--rarely look in you the eye unless

intimate with your or about to kick your ass. It's considered disrespectful in most other situations. Mainland

visitors, especially military, often wrongly interpret this behavior as racial hostility. Others think local Asians

suffer from low self-esteem! Last semester I had an Asian female student from Seattle in one of my classes. She

fearlessly looked anyone in the eye and pissed off half the class (mostly Asian) because of it. She didn't say

anything rude but was perceived as crazy and a bitch due to this cultural disconnect. She was actually a very nice

girl.

In Korean culture is considered rude to touch a customer's hand. Korean retailers show respect to

customers by laying their change on the countertop. I've seen GIs curse Korean shop keepers because they didn't

look them in the eye and then treated them as if their hands were dirty!

Friendly1

01-25-2005, 05:47 PM

you're supposed

to stay relaxed and confident at the same time while making her earn your body language. this isn't done all night.

i usually end up facing a girl completely after a few minutes.
I think you mean something other than what

I originally understood by "earn your body language". You're really saying something like, "earn your body's

expression of interest in her". I think.

Friendly1

01-25-2005, 05:54 PM

you have to

differentiate between 1st generation and 2nd generation girls though. the 2nd generation on plays by the regular

rules in my experience because they lost all the cultural stuff growing up in the US.Well, you know more

than I do, so I'll defer to your judgement (ON EDIT: But I'll keep what Gegogi says in mind, too). I've been

second-guessing myself with a Chinese girl I met a couple of years ago. I rarely see her now. She grew up in the

U.S. and had a boyfriend when I first met her. She hasn't had a boyfriend for a long time and I've always thought

that was kind of strange. I have been thinking lately that she just doesn't want to give her heart very easily to

anyone.

Of course, this girl has flirted with me in the past, and is quite beautiful. One night, she very

calculatedly and deliberately gave me a full side view as she arched her back. That is SUCH a sexy move.

But she

is much younger than me and doesn't chase guys (they usually chase her anyway). We've had a few misconnects and I

feel she gave up on me a long time ago.

Anyway, most of my eye-locking lately (with Asian girls) seems to have

been with the more traditional ones, but it's hard for me to figure out who is traditional and who isn't. I just

out-and-out asked the med student the other night if she is, and she admitted she is very NON-traditional. By that

point, my interest was waning anyway. She is smart, sweet, beautiful, and sexy, but unless she changes directions in

her life, she and I will never be more than just friends. (And, no, she is not wild -- as far as I can tell, she is

pretty conservative by American standards.)

Friendly1

01-25-2005, 06:02 PM

Now I

understand that point but alot of what I read says that I should mirror her to make her feel more comfortable. So in

your opinion which is it, should I do the leading or should I do the mirroring?
Intentional mirroring or

lead mirroring is how you establish rapport with a person. That really means you are helping the person to feel

comfortable in your presence and emotionally in tune with you.

Rapport-building is part of most, if not all, of

the dating/seduction techniques I have read or read about, including Don Steele's book and a couple of business

body language books (selling, after all, relies extensively on seduction).

So, you have to decide for yourself

whether you want to take the lead and try to build rapport. Just keep in mind that it's still a numbers game.

Some guys feel better if they are in the driver's seat, because if they don't see the girl responding they blow

her off and move on.

But if you're thinking to yourself, "She may like me", and you have the time to let her

show her hand, letting her take the lead can be enlightening.

Of course, few women will take the lead for long.

They try to make men they like feel comfortable and relaxed, and they do so through a variety of means: acting very

interested in what the guy is saying, laughing at his jokes, mirroring his body language, touching him, asking him

questions, affirming his opinions, and generally following whatever non-lead he provides until he gets the clue and

takes over.

Sometimes they just realize they made a mistake, found a really shy guy, and lose interest. But

they do express their interest in so many ways we guys consider to be subtle -- even super-subtle -- that I think

most guys never see the signals. I certainly didn't get it for a very long time.

TRock

01-25-2005, 06:58 PM

Well, you know

more than I do, so I'll defer to your judgement (ON EDIT: But I'll keep what Gegogi says in mind, too). I've been

second-guessing myself with a Chinese girl I met a couple of years ago. I rarely see her now. She grew up in the

U.S. and had a boyfriend when I first met her. She hasn't had a boyfriend for a long time and I've always thought

that was kind of strange. I have been thinking lately that she just doesn't want to give her heart very easily to

anyone.

Of course, this girl has flirted with me in the past, and is quite beautiful. One night, she very

calculatedly and deliberately gave me a full side view as she arched her back. That is SUCH a sexy move.

But she

is much younger than me and doesn't chase guys (they usually chase her anyway). We've had a few misconnects and I

feel she gave up on me a long time ago.

to keep it on the topic of nonverbal communication. all the non

traditional asians girls i know dye their hair and get their nails done every week. i know it's stereotyping but if

it's tru most of the time, what can you do?
Anyway, most of my eye-locking lately (with Asian girls) seems to have

been with the more traditional ones, but it's hard for me to figure out who is traditional and who isn't. I just

out-and-out asked the med student the other night if she is, and she admitted she is very NON-traditional. By that

point, my interest was waning anyway. She is smart, sweet, beautiful, and sexy, but unless she changes directions in

her life, she and I will never be more than just friends. (And, no, she is not wild -- as far as I can tell, she is

pretty conservative by American standards.) that's true what gegogi, if they were raised in an ethnic

community than they probably retained cultural values.

it also depends on what part of asia you are from. i'm

southeast asian, vietnamese, to be exact. southeast asians (vietnamese, cambodians, laotians, and filipinos) don't

tend to hold on to hold on to our cultural values. but this is only from experience i have on the east coast. on the

east coast you rarely meet any asians who retain their cultural values if they are 2nd generation on unless they are

isolated like gegogi.

to keep it on the topic on non verbal communication, all the non traditional asian girls i

know dye their hair and get their nails done every week. i know it's stereotyping, but what can you say when it's

true for all the girls i know.

Gegogi

01-25-2005, 09:00 PM

" it's hard for me to

figure out who is traditional and who isn't. I just out-and-out asked the med student the other night if she is,

and she admitted she is very NON-traditional."

Of course what she and you consider traditional may be

very different. The fact that she, a Vietnamese woman, is in a Western country studying to be a physician means she

is non-traditional by Vietnamese standards. Travel and higher education for a young single woman from the "old

country" are unusual. But that doesn't mean she isn't traditional in other ways, e.g., male and female roles in

dating, sex, or family.

"to keep it on the topic on non verbal communication, all the non traditional

asian girls i know dye their hair and get their nails done every week. i know it's stereotyping, but what can you

say when it's true for all the girls i know."

I guess I don't consider that non-traditional!

That's normal female activity, Asian or not. You should see the designer handbags most fairly traditional Korean

women covet! By traditional I mean retention of culture such as language, food, music, TV/movies, morals, family and

other values and attitudes unique to their originating culture. Western materialism jives nicely with the most

traditional family minded Asian man or woman. The Asian work ethic rewards my relatives with lots of BMWs and large

houses. They still eat kim chi everyday and speak Korean at home. But even my 2nd generation cousins consider

marriage, family life and kids the holy grail of human activity. That's pretty dad burn traditional! They think

something's wrong with me because I divorced my Korean wife, don't have any kids and drag home different women

every week or two.

Marlboro_man

01-27-2005, 02:09 PM

Friendly1

01-27-2005, 03:14 PM

I know this

thread got sidetracked a little again but I am looking for everyone's take on these two body language

movements.
1. A Girl grabs your hand while you light her cigarette. She doesn't guide it like she is afraid that

you will catch her hair on fire rather she just kinda holds on for the ride.Generally speaking, any form of

touching initiated by the girl is a sign of interest. However, her interest may only be to see how much she can

manipulate you.

2. I have 3 different girls (age 19-20) who consistently put the crotch on my knee. Yeah

I know it seems obvious but here are the details. I am sitting at the bar, they come up next to me, and I turn

slightly towards them and of course I am leaning back away from them playing it cool. They are usually drunk (good

fake ID's) and want to talk to me so they can either talk to me that way or walk around my leg and come to my side.

2 of them are single the other does it right in front of her boyfriend. Do you think they are trying to get close to

the mones?Maybe, but remember that girls sometimes just get wild and crazy when they are drunk. And if they

are using fake IDs to get into bars, then they certainly aren't very inhibited.

They could just be playing

around with you.

Alcohol can often induce a young girl to do things she wouldn't do while sober, including

throwing herself at a guy, having sex, doing drugs, and breaking the law. That is one reason for why giving alcohol

to minors is illegal, and why having sex with a drunk girl is usually called date-rape.

If you want to REALLY

know if they are interested, you have to interact with them when they are sober.

If you just want sex, well, I

suppose in the scenario you describe above that depends on how slick and sleazy you want to be.

TRock

01-27-2005, 03:29 PM

I know this

thread got sidetracked a little again but I am looking for everyone's take on these two body language

movements.
1. A Girl grabs your hand while you light her cigarette. She doesn't guide it like she is afraid that

you will catch her hair on fire rather she just kinda holds on for the ride.
2. I have 3 different girls (age

19-20) who consistently put the crotch on my knee. Yeah I know it seems obvious but here are the details. I am

sitting at the bar, they come up next to me, and I turn slightly towards them and of course I am leaning back away

from them playing it cool. They are usually drunk (good fake ID's) and want to talk to me so they can either talk

to me that way or walk around my leg and come to my side. 2 of them are single the other does it right in front of

her boyfriend. Do you think they are trying to get close to the mones? (btw, they are all very good looking, one is

an 8.5 and the other 2 are 9's, you know the kind of girls that used to itimidate us)
I know these both seem like

obvious signs but I am looking for everyone else's feedback.i'm no body language expert but i know a

little something. here's my 2 cents. i would assume if somebody was poking me with their crotch, they want me. they

don't want the mones, they want you. but like friendly said if you want to know, take it to the next level.

koolking1

01-27-2005, 04:17 PM

My problem with

understanding body language is that I usually forget what I know to be true while in social situations. I know the

signs but I forget to see them.

Friendly1

01-27-2005, 09:17 PM

It just takes practice. And I

don't consider myself to be an expert by any means. I just know what some of the books say and what I have been

able to apply to my own experience. But the same gesture can mean more than one thing. So, you have to practice

and be flexible. It's good that a lot of guys are not assuming it's all about them. A little humility helps us

keep our perspective.

Gegogi

01-27-2005, 09:38 PM

I have 3 different girls

(age 19-20) who consistently put the crotch on my knee... I am sitting at the bar, they come up next to me, and I

turn slightly towards them and of course I am leaning back away from them playing it cool. They are usually drunk

(good fake ID's) and want to talk to me so they can either talk to me that way or walk around my leg and come to my

side. 2 of them are single the other does it right in front of her boyfriend.

Most attractive girls

quickly learn their female assets are extremely effective at manipulating men. It takes them years to learn to read

men for maximum effectivness. As a college professor I get the treatment all the time. Many women at this age are

good at teasing (for manipulating) but don't know when to turn it off and get themselves in trouble. Some of them

do it just to enjoy the feeling of power and have no intention of following through. Reminds me of my old tomcat. He

used to catch birds and play with them all day, biting, releasing, pouncing and finally killing them. He had no

intention of eating the poor little thing. Not that I'm holier than thou, I have occasionally been gulity of the

same (not torturing birds, teasing women for the heck of it).

Marlboro_man

01-28-2005, 01:36 AM

Friendly1

01-28-2005, 09:49 AM

So what

your all saying is that they are just trying to tease me right? Remember I don't give in to their whims so it has

happened multiple times. Do you think it's a power struggle on their part or what?
It sounds like they

are teasing you. That doesn't mean nothing would happen. Sometimes, like Gegogi says, the Little Tease gets

caught in her own trap.

But they do like to be seductive and see how much they can drive a guy crazy. It makes

them feel more "womanly".

And I am not saying that ALL girls do this. I am saying the ones who tease on a

moment's notice are usually just playing around.

I've had girls bend over frontwards and backwards, hoping to

get a rise out of me, and I knew for sure nothing would have happened. I might laugh at their immaturity, I might

just ignore them.

I sure don't go looking for anything from them. Some guys would. It means nothing to me.

Marlboro_man

01-28-2005, 01:10 PM

Cool, I will continue to

have fun with it. They all have done this on multiple occasions and I just lean back and make them lean in.

Holmes

01-28-2005, 02:05 PM

I

agree, mild disinterest and self-assurance can make certain women want you if you have other attractive attributes.

Of course other "attractive attributes" is the key word here.

Crucial. You've got to back that mild

disinterest and self-assurance up with other marketable qualities, i.e. appearance, humor, curiosity, interests,

something (anything) suggesting intelligence and an awareness of/involvement in the world around you and...a

life. Nonchalance sans any of the above barely even registers as a punchline.

phersurf

01-28-2005, 05:59 PM

Crucial. You've

got to back that mild disinterest and self-assurance up with other marketable qualities, i.e. appearance, humor,

curiosity, interests, something (anything) suggesting intelligence and an awareness of/involvement in the world

around you and...a life. Nonchalance sans any of the above barely even registers as a

punchline.

Very well said!

And appearance doesn't mean if you don't look like a GQ

model you're out of luck. It's a combination of being well groomed, taking care of you're personal hygeine

(probably not an issue with anyone here), knowing how to dress, etc.

CptKipling

01-28-2005, 06:39 PM

I've had

girls bend over frontwards and backwards, hoping to get a rise out of me, and I knew for sure nothing would have

happened. I might laugh at their immaturity, I might just ignore them.

Whats really funny is the guys

that respond and get strung along for a while thinking that they are a super stud :D

Chemist

01-30-2005, 08:07 PM

Ok guys. Sidetracked again. These

are my thoughts so far.

Regarding the three girls on stud muffin's knee - if a girl is really hot for you

and that close, you should be able to smell her - it gets obvious.

Another thing I've noticed - is that when

it comes to showing interest, most girls follow a very distinct pattern. And, yes the initiated touch is a good

sign. However, different girls are more comfortable than others - when any she first starts doing this kind of thing

with me - I have found the WORSE THING TO DO IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SHE DID IT. Don't look where she touched you,

don't touch her back, don't back away, and don't lean into it.

Some guys actually say some wise ass

comment at that point, I do not - but the wise assers are the ones that end up making out with her in the parking

lot.

I notice when she does it and then mentally keep a note of how often she does it and the nature of the

touching appears. I have noticed that if I keep this up days later - the contact lingers and when lighting a

cigarette or passing a can opener - that she is actually quickly caressing when days before it was just a breif

encounter.

If she suddenly started the lingering caresses, any man would notice it - but she's ramped up the

intensity so slowly that it doesn't seem all that unusual.

Now I know she's interested - but I still do not

do anything. But, I know I will be kissing her within a week. Her resulting contact ramps up to a point where there

is no mistake that she wants to move everything to the next level.

And this all happens because I don't

acknowledge her initial touching. I'm not sure the reason why - but I conciously do this now. I know some other

guys who are more successful than me at hooking up find my actions to be somewhat counterintuitive yet they cannot

deny the results - they just do it faster - granted they are much younger than me and taller.

Fatal

01-30-2005, 08:48 PM

Hey Chemist, do you think you

could go into a little more detail on that?

Chemist

01-31-2005, 02:42 AM

My schtick is good and fun

conversation. I make the girl laugh by poking fun at her or using funny speaking voices while describing something,

The point is to make them laugh at their expense, but do it in such a way that they know I'm teasing

them.

Their subsequent reaction tells me what I need to know and it is her response that weeds a girl out.

Before I am start a conversation with a new prospect, there are usually other girls around that already know

me and all make a big deal out of my appearance - they have an expection that interactions will be random with me,

and funny often at their expense - but its not mean, it's teasing. As I'm interacting with the people I know

already, I keep on the lookout for somebody new. The most obvious sign is that she stares right at me.

Later

I will engage her in conversation - and within 3 minutes I start with the teasing and if you keep doing this, she

will eventually laugh so hard that she will instinctually lift her hands to slap your shoulder while she is

laughing. Once contact has been made, the interaction moves to the next stage.

Everytime she slaps me or

makes some physical contact, accidental or not, I make note of it - like a scientist plotting data and projecting

forward but not interfering or doing anything differently - just observing. Many times the slaps become more

frequent.

Over the course of the next few interactions, I keep doing my thing and seeing if she does anything

unusual while I'm handing things to her or in her area. If the physical contact becomes more frequent its a good

thing, if the contact lingers thats even better. Sometimes over the course of time, the slaps start becoming quick

strokes then after a while while I'm handing things to her, she will grab my hand first and then move her hand up

over mine until she grabs the object. This increase intensity is very gradual and unnoticible since each time she

contacts me, its only a little bit more than before.

Sometimes she does something obvious like grabbing my

hand and holding it or just mushing her head into my side then grabbing and hugging me and not letting go. Then all

this observation stops and I decide if I want to go down the path that she has obviously told me with her actions

she wants.

I think this thread is getting sidetracked. If you want me to elaborate more, please ask a more

specific question.

TRock

01-31-2005, 09:37 PM

repost from

fs.com

1 Feel validated and content
2 Feel

you are high value
3 Feel strong and masculine

(You think its strange to start a BL post with stuff on inner

game? Luckily for you, you don't need to understand to make this work. Stop thinking so much!)

4 Relax in your

body and mind
5 Spread out
6 Slow down
7 Look ahead
8 Lower your eye lids

¤¤¤

Detail descriptions

1

Feel validated and content

Believe girls want you. Believe you are happy both with and without girlfriend. Stop

thinking girls are something you need and depend on to feel happy. Affirmations might be helpful here. If all this

makes you smile, then wear that smile!

2 Feel you are high value

Ignore/forget your faults and shortcomings.

Act and feel as if you are a really great guy with lots of friends. Focus on your qualities. Remember times when you

were popular. Expect people to love and respect you.

3 Feel strong and masculine

Think of yourself as a man

and do things that make you feel like a man. Lift heavy weights. Eat much and eat healthy. Get enough sleep.

4

Relax in your body and mind

Chill out, drop your shoulders, forget worries, breath deeper and slower, relax

muscles.

5 Spread out

Open up BL, spread arms and legs, expand chest, straighten neck.

6 Slow down

Make

your moves like slow motion, fluid, graceful, deliberate and slow.

7 Look ahead

Don't pay attention to people

who havent done anything to deserve it. Never stare at hot girls. Never seek

EC (""). When someone seeks your attention, turn SLOW. Never face

girls early in convo. Turn gradually against them as they EARN more and more of your attention.

8 Lower your eye

lids

Relax eyes, slow eye moves. Aim for a look that is sexual, dominant and relaxed, all at the same time.

Imagine looking down at a beautiful girl giving you the best BJ ever. Try to have the eyes you would look at her

with.

Gegogi

02-01-2005, 12:01 AM

"Eat much and eat

healthy."

Eating correct proprtions of the major food groups, keeping sugar and fat intake to a

minium, avoiding harmful additives (e.g., pesticides or preservatives like sodium nitrate) and drinking plenty of

water is eating healthy. "Eat much" is not healthy or manly. You'll feel better, look better and live longer if you

only eat the amount of food necessary to maintain your metabolism and body size. Eating more than you need results

in excess fat storage, dull intellect and reduced self esteem. Of course if you do fatten up, you don't have to

worry about making your movements slow, deliberate and dull.

TRock

02-01-2005, 12:28 AM

Eating correct

proprtions of the major food groups, keeping sugar and fat intake to a minium, avoiding harmful additives (e.g.,

pesticides or preservatives like sodium nitrate) and drinking plenty of water is eating healthy. "Eat much" is not

healthy or manly. You'll feel better, look better and live longer if you only eat the amount of food necessary to

maintain your metabolism and body size. Eating more than you need results in excess fat storage, dull intellect and

reduced self esteem. Of course if you do fatten up, you don't have to worry about making your movements slow,

deliberate and dull.

good point. i rather watch what i eat and have a six pack than eat all i want.

phersurf

02-01-2005, 09:48 AM

repost from fs.com

1 Feel validated and content
2 Feel you are high value
3 Feel strong and

masculine

(You think its strange to start a BL post with stuff on inner game? Luckily for you, you don't

need to understand to make this work. Stop thinking so much!)

4 Relax in your body and mind
5 Spread

out
6 Slow down
7 Look ahead
8 Lower your eye lids

¤¤¤

Detail descriptions

1 Feel

validated and content

Believe girls want you. Believe you are happy both with and without girlfriend. Stop

thinking girls are something you need and depend on to feel happy. Affirmations might be helpful here. If all this

makes you smile, then wear that smile!

2 Feel you are high value

Ignore/forget your faults and

shortcomings. Act and feel as if you are a really great guy with lots of friends. Focus on your qualities. Remember

times when you were popular. Expect people to love and respect you.

3 Feel strong and masculine

Think

of yourself as a man and do things that make you feel like a man. Lift heavy weights. Eat much and eat healthy. Get

enough sleep.

4 Relax in your body and mind

Chill out, drop your shoulders, forget worries, breath

deeper and slower, relax muscles.

5 Spread out

Open up BL, spread arms and legs, expand chest,

straighten neck.

6 Slow down

Make your moves like slow motion, fluid, graceful, deliberate and

slow.

7 Look ahead

Don't pay attention to people who havent done anything to deserve it. Never stare

at hot girls. Never seek EC (""). When someone seeks your

attention, turn SLOW. Never face girls early in convo. Turn gradually against them as they EARN more and more of

your attention.

8 Lower your eye lids

Relax eyes, slow eye moves. Aim for a look that is sexual,

dominant and relaxed, all at the same time. Imagine looking down at a beautiful girl giving you the best BJ ever.

Try to have the eyes you would look at her with.

Great post!

These are the types of

male body language and attitudes that women are instinctually attracted to.

Do these simple things

(actually, they only sound simple, some of the things that require a change in your inner game take a while to

develop) and you'll be SO different than 99% of the other guys out there you'll have an instant advantage.

TRock

02-02-2005, 09:46 AM

i went to class today. i was

thinking about just sleeping in so no -mones, getting dressed up, or doing my hair and i came in late as usual. so i

sat behind one girl and to the of another girl. after a few minutes i notice the girl to my right sending attraction

cues. then she stopped. a little later on in class, the grl in front of me tried to look at me and was playing with

her hair and rubbing her back and the sides of her neck. i think the girl to the right notice and started up sending

signs again. so that cycle went on for the rest of class, girl in front send signals the girl to my left would get

mad and send signals. i tried friendly's mimic body langugae game. i looked at my nails and i notice she looked at

her nails too, but that was it for the mimic game. so that was basically it for my morning class today, oh i did

learn something class too lol.

friendly, what is the proper way to play the mimic body language game? and i

notice the girl on my right crossed her leg and put her hands b/w her legs. i see that from alot of girls actually.

should i read anyhting into that? and would have wearing -mones and actually looking like i didn't just get out of

bed done anything else for me?

Friendly1

02-02-2005, 10:50 AM

...after a few

minutes i notice the girl to my right sending attraction cues. then she stopped. a little later on in class, the grl

in front of me tried to look at me and was playing with her hair and rubbing her back and the sides of her neck. i

think the girl to the right notice and started up sending signs again.
Well, with the one girl, the hair

playing and rubbing could be flirting moves, but they could also be signs of stress, tiredness, or intense

concentration. I don't know what to make of "sending attraction signals" and "sending signs again".

i

tried friendly's mimic body langugae game. i looked at my nails and i notice she looked at her nails too, but that

was it for the mimic game.
It's not a game, though, and you don't want to mimic (or get them to mimic).

You want to mirror, which is somewhat different.

For example, this morning I was in a meeting with two other

people. One was a woman the other an older man. The man and I were making a pitch to the woman.

My associate

seemed a little nervous, though I am not sure why. I tried to relax and focus on building rapport with the woman.

As she leaned to her left (expressing interest in the presentation), I shifted my weight ever so slightly to the

left as well. I did not cross my hands exactly as she crossed hers, but I held my hands in front of me and somewhat

crossed like hers were.

When she seemed to withdraw and become defensive, I tried to open up my body language.

She responded by opening up hers.

I did not try to make intense eye contact with her, but I did keep my eyes on

her face or on my associate's face for most of the conversation. Every few minutes, since there was noise in the

background, I took a quick scan around the room and used that opportunity to reassess the woman's body language.

If I felt I needed to adjust my position, I did so.

friendly, what is the proper way to play the mimic

body language game? and i notice the girl on my right crossed her leg and put her hands b/w her legs. i see that

from alot of girls actually. should i read anyhting into that?
By itself, that body position doesn't

really tell you anything. In one context, I can tell you that it might be an indication of virginity or sexual

modesty. In another context, it might mean the girls are feeling comfortable. In another context, it might mean

they are feeling uncomfortable.

You have to look at what else they do, and what is going on around them. For

example, a girl might be flippling her hair just because a gnat keeps buzzing her.

...and would have

wearing -mones and actually looking like i didn't just get out of bed done anything else for me?
Maybe.

Hard to say. It sounds you may have had some interest from the girls. And it never hurts to keep them wondering

what is going on with you in terms of your sexiness. Sometimes you're hot, sometimes you're not.

Chemist

02-02-2005, 12:42 PM

It's very hard to read someone

when they are just sitting in class in front of you. most people do not want to be there and will fidgit or play

with their hair out of boredom. Just sitting behind someone does not really establish any kind of rapport. You need

to actually interact with the woman to read her, unless you are already known in the area for being somewhat of a

celebrity - otherwise, she probably isn't thinking about you while in class and therefore her actions aren't as a

result of you.

Holmes

02-02-2005, 01:05 PM

You need to actually

interact with the woman to read her

Thank you.

TRock

02-02-2005, 01:20 PM

It's very hard to

read someone when they are just sitting in class in front of you. most people do not want to be there and will

fidgit or play with their hair out of boredom. Just sitting behind someone does not really establish any kind of

rapport. You need to actually interact with the woman to read her, unless you are already known in the area for

being somewhat of a celebrity - otherwise, she probably isn't thinking about you while in class and therefore her

actions aren't as a result of you.

me and my buddy are the 2 best looking guys in class so we assume

attraction from the get go. you don't need rapport for attraction. but u need attraction to get into rapport that

isn't ljbf rapport.

Chemist

02-02-2005, 01:24 PM

TRock

02-02-2005, 01:30 PM

Assuming attraction

is a great attitute! The next thing is to figure out if she's acting the way she is because of you are not. It's

very obvious to me when a woman is doing that, but it took a very long time for me to pick up this skill. Often I

was reading too much into what was going on.

When I see signs of attraction or interest, I will immediately

engage my target - I have found that lessens the uncertainty I used too feel when I was younger and admiring from

afar.that's true. yeah i know the easiest way to figure attraction is to actually talk to the girl.

you're supposed to be able to get an answer from a person without verbally communicating it though if your body

langauge skills are good, 93% nonverbal vs 7% verbal (and out of that total 7%, only 4% of the 7% is truthful or

upfront communication). i usually won't engage girls that send IOI'S because they're no higher than 7's. i

sometimes will get IOI's from 8's and once in a blue moon on 9's and higher. i'm only interested in 8's and

higher.

Chemist

02-02-2005, 02:44 PM

What's an IOI?

I'm still

in the stage of my game where I talk to everybody. I have found that being seen talking with every single girl at a

party makes a new one very open to communication with me. I suppose she sees me as friendly and trusts me if she

sees me bouncing around while each girl laughs really loudly within 10 seconds of contact. It helps, or at least I

think so!

BassMan

02-02-2005, 02:50 PM

What's an IOI?

I'm still in the stage of my game where I talk to everybody. I have found that being seen talking with every

single girl at a party makes a new one very open to communication with me. I suppose she sees me as friendly and

trusts me if she sees me bouncing around while each girl laughs really loudly within 10 seconds of contact. It

helps, or at least I think so!
indicator of interest.

-Bass

Friendly1

02-02-2005, 02:52 PM

IOI means "Indication Of

Interest".

I don't understand why guys have to have the "8s and higher". Of course, I have never understood

the numbering system, either.

Some girls turn out to be knockouts once they fix themselves up. They can REALLY

downplay their sexiness if they want to. Assigning numbers just knocks you into a much smaller ballpark with way

too many other yelling, screaming fans in my opinion.

Makes no sense to me, but to each his own.

TRock

02-02-2005, 03:32 PM

it's an ego thing. right now my

game is ego dependant but eventually i want to drop my ego. because ego is helping my game but also holding me back

at the same time. it's gonna take awhile to erase 22 1/2 years of being a chump.

bjf

02-02-2005, 05:25 PM

it's an ego thing.

right now my game is ego dependant but eventually i want to drop my ego. because ego is helping my game but also

holding me back at the same time. it's gonna take awhile to erase 22 1/2 years of being a

chump.

Then forget about chicks!!!!!!!!!

Chemist

02-02-2005, 06:53 PM

I talk to ALL the chicks. The fat

ones, the old ones, and especially the ones that look like they're preoccupied. I make them laugh out loud and when

they do slap me, I totally ignore it unless its somewhat forceful. Then I have to say, "Oww" or

something.

It's really hard to tell if knowing over 70% of the chicks at a party helps mu game - but it

seems to make the other 30% very very very easy to interact with. About several months ago something different

started to happen. Chicks used to quickly turn away when we made eye contact - now they keep eye contact and over

half the time, they smile at me and say hi first.

Each girl I talk to is definately not with the intent of

scoring - its with the intention of setting up a specific environment - where I am seen interacting with a different

girl every 10 minutes and that girl is paying complete attention to me and not running off. Some guys actually

comment on it out loud (yo man, that guy is always talking to different chicks). This makes it so the hot ones

wonder and feel almost compelled to engage me and try to figure out what the big deal is. The girls that know me

yell my complete name out loud when I enter a room.

When this first started, the quality of the girls was

very low. But very slowly I have found that the hot ones come around eventually and and now approach me and start a

conversation (usually about nothing) - the greeting is usually with some sort of hug or even a little peck on the

chick. Ones the hot chicks do this, the other hot chicks do it too.

Everybody has a different game. This one

is mine.

bjf

02-02-2005, 07:13 PM

Yours rocks. It is the tortoise and

the heir (hare, hair?) approach. (turtle and the rabbit).

TRock

02-02-2005, 07:58 PM

I talk to ALL the

chicks. The fat ones, the old ones, and especially the ones that look like they're preoccupied. I make them laugh

out loud and when they do slap me, I totally ignore it unless its somewhat forceful. Then I have to say, "Oww" or

something.

It's really hard to tell if knowing over 70% of the chicks at a party helps mu game - but it seems

to make the other 30% very very very easy to interact with. About several months ago something different started to

happen. Chicks used to quickly turn away when we made eye contact - now they keep eye contact and over half the

time, they smile at me and say hi first.

Each girl I talk to is definately not with the intent of scoring - its

with the intention of setting up a specific environment - where I am seen interacting with a different girl every 10

minutes and that girl is paying complete attention to me and not running off. Some guys actually comment on it out

loud (yo man, that guy is always talking to different chicks). This makes it so the hot ones wonder and feel almost

compelled to engage me and try to figure out what the big deal is. The girls that know me yell my complete name out

loud when I enter a room.

When this first started, the quality of the girls was very low. But very slowly I have

found that the hot ones come around eventually and and now approach me and start a conversation (usually about

nothing) - the greeting is usually with some sort of hug or even a little peck on the chick. Ones the hot chicks do

this, the other hot chicks do it too.

Everybody has a different game. This one is mine.
what you're

doing gains massive social proof. social proof is as good as any technique out there. it raises your value in her

eyes and girls only like guys with more value than them.

TRock

02-02-2005, 09:39 PM

here's another article on body

language by badboy.

http://www.badboylifestyle.com/?badboy=archive&new

s_id=3 (http://www.badboylifestyle.com/?badboy=archive&news_id=3)

Lets talk little bit of body language, and how it is connected to your attitude and confidence. We

all know, that people communicate with each other on multiple levels. Words (what we say), is just 7% of our

communication when we communicate, the majority of communication is done with bodylanguage, vocal tones, vocal

pitch, movement, and gestures. When I say body language, I mean: pitch of voice, tonality, speed, how you walk, the

way you carry yourself through the world, having eye contact, how fast you move (hands… etc), shoulders, chest...

You may ask why body language is so important. First, because it is how we sub- communicate with others.

TRock

02-02-2005, 09:51 PM

the easiest way to walk like that

is imagin being yanked by a rope tied around your hips. lead with your hips and your body will be forced to be

alpha. and/or walk with the balls of your feet.

an easy way to have all your body language slow is imagine if

you were high.

Friendly1

02-03-2005, 12:27 AM

TRock

02-03-2005, 12:42 AM

That article is

over the top. Some of the advice is generally good, some of it would not work for older guys, some of it would not

work for younger guys.

The picture isn't there any more, but I think someone posted this article text a few

months ago (btw, the Web site specifically forbids reposting their content like this -- you should just put in a few

lines and leave the link to the new URL). If this is the same guy, he didn't look very impressive in that picture

at all. Certainly not like some hotshot lady killer.

But this article describes another by-the-numbers technique

that will work for some and not for others. It's very mechanical.

The slow walk he describes would be hard for

anyone to achieve with anything like a natural step. And the concept of personal space is not B.S. People have zones

of comfort that should only be intruded upon when you understand what their reactions mean.

Some guys will hit

you if they feel like you are crowding them.some guys will be aggressive that's true, but in a seduction

sense there's no reason to intrude in another guy's space. english isn't the guy's native language but you can

do it the way i describe by being yanked with a rope and balancing with the balls of your foot. it's not for fast

walkers. if walking is 4 mph, you're probably walking 2 or 3. i know people always walk faster than me. it's

basically walking with a cocky swagger or a pimp walk. i've walked almost like this all my life, it took a little

concious adjustment on my part to do it his way.

Friendly1

02-03-2005, 11:31 AM

... it's

basically walking with a cocky swagger or a pimp walk.
That won't work for most guys.

DeMoKiLL

02-03-2005, 02:42 PM

Friendly1

02-03-2005, 03:40 PM

Yeah after

reading all this stuff from this site, dyd, and becomeaplayer.com I started wearing really nice collared shirts,

nice shoes, I now walk with a swagger, walk with head up eyes lowered and I now get tons of looks from girls when I

walk through my highschool.
I think the two of you are African American, or some similar ethnic group. If

you're not, please let me know.

I make a point of that because I have only seen black guys pull off the pimp

walk successfully. Maybe there are other guys who can do it, but I think they would have to grow up doing it.

It's not something a white college boy can pick up (and I've seen far too many try to).

...Body

language is the key to everything! After I changed the way I act and dress it totally changed how people looked at

me. This one girl in my class always sits with her upper body pointed to me and stares at me all the time. One time

during class I just did a face like im bored and she did the same thing, upper body pointed to me. Im not sure if

that constitutes as body mirroring but it seemed like it was...
Yes. She was mirroring your expression.

Sounds like she is totally into you.

...She is hot as hell and I give her absolutely no attention at all.

Not sure how to approach her right now but ill run some IOI tests to see if she is interested.
See if you

can torment her without treating her badly. Don't be disrespectful, but just sort of "let it dangle" in front of

her. That attitude. Notice her briefly, but say nothing.

For anyone who wants to see if a girl likes

you here are some tests:
1) Do something like look at your watch, make a facial expression, etc and see if she does

the same.
2) See where her upper body points
3) If she is standing somewhere, get closer and see if she pushes

away or holds her position.
Good tests. Some other things you can do include sipping a drink if you are

both holding one and she is looking your way; changing position slightly if she is already mirroring your posture;

giving her a quick, questioning look (just glance at her and raise your eyebrows).

The last example may elicit a

comment or question from her. Be ready to say something, or to just smile coyly and then move away.

DeMoKiLL

02-03-2005, 04:12 PM

No I am not black, but never

walk with your upper body in one position only moving your legs or you will look homosexual, guaranteed. It just has

to be like when you are walking you are walking with with your entire body, moving shoulder forward shoulder back.

Yes if you do this wrong you will look like a poser and all the girls will think you are a wannabe macho man.

Friendly1

02-03-2005, 09:53 PM

Well, I was reluctant to make

any ethnic identifications, and it turns out I was wrong with both of you. :)

Let me just say that, if you

don't grow up practicing a certain natural body rhythm, trying to adapt to it later in life is very, very

difficult.

Body language speaks according to a rhythm we each develop, and that rhythm is culturally influenced,

perhaps even culturally defined. Your "culture" is the neighborhood you grow up in, not the country or tribe or

ethnic group you come from. Of course, there is a lot of similarity from neighborhood to neighborhood within the

same region, and so forth.

So, guys, what I am saying is, I have SEEN that pimp walk attitude, both from guys

who developed it naturally and from guys who thought they could just start doing it. The guys who thought they

could just start doing it didn't do it well at all.

On the other hand, like dancing or martial arts, if you

have someone who knows how to teach you show the ropes, then, yes, you could pick up a different rhythm in your body

language. You could start walking, talking, and acting like a whole different person in a very different style.

But there is more than one way to express that sexy confidence women like. I think it's easier for each guy to

look at his male friends, relatives, and associates who are successful with women and adapt those guys' traits

(unless you're thrown into a multicultural group, and then you have to figure it out on your own).

I hope that

makes better sense.

Also, I would say there are generational differences. Those of us in our 40s grew up with

different pop culture influences. MTV only barely went into broadcast production as I hit my 20s, so I wasn't very

exposed to whatever body language they started beaming to the youth of America at the time.

Gegogi

02-04-2005, 12:35 AM

"I talk to ALL the chicks.

The fat ones, the old ones, and especially the ones that look like they're preoccupied.

One of the

oldest and best pieces of advice if you want to meet women. It sharpens your social skills, conversation skills,

reading of female facial and body language and tends to make everyone (at least women) like you. In turn you get

introduced to even more women and get the pick of the litter. But, sheesh, it's exhausting work, time consuming and

you better enjoy talking about nothing...

"It just has to be like when you are walking you are walking

with with your entire body, moving shoulder forward shoulder back. Yes if you do this wrong you will look like a

poser and all the girls will think you are a wannabe macho man.

The pimp swagger is actually only

cool with kids. You have to knock it off after college or you look stupid. Back in the day we called it the Harlem

Buck Strut as only the inner city brothers did it. I prefer to move more like a cat. Chicks love it.

Holmes

02-04-2005, 07:02 AM

I prefer to move

more like a cat.

Meaning...?

TRock

02-04-2005, 09:52 AM

DeMoKiLL

02-04-2005, 01:40 PM

Friendly, is there

a difference between making eye contact with a girl and her looking down versus some girls that one you make eye

contact they won't break it? do the results mean the same thing? this is in the context of i'm walking one way

down the street and she's walking the other way.

to add onto demokill's clothes post. i realized today i

need more color in my wardrobe. it's winter so i've been wearing white, black and other similar clothing. i think

my body language is more confident when i wear colors. Yes clothes are VERY important. I actually heard this

girl talking about a guy in a bus across from us and the first thing she said was, he sure knows how to dress. With

the girl I mentioned in the earlier post, I have no idea how to approach this girl. She is only in one of my

periods, sits kinda far away but I have a feeling something is there. I noticed before that she dates "cool guys",

guys that are average but with a certain coolness about them. I've been acting cool lately, with body language, and

I think she may be noticing but im not 100% sure. If anyone could give advice to this it would be greatly

appreciated.

Friendly1

02-04-2005, 01:45 PM

Friendly, is there

a difference between making eye contact with a girl and her looking down versus some girls that one you make eye

contact they won't break it?
It takes a little more time/effort with the first group, a little less

time/effort with the more aggressive ones.

phersurf

02-04-2005, 03:46 PM

Man, I really want to make some

comments on this thread based on the latest scientific research, but I'll hold my "tongue". Even though it's on

topic.

Carry on.

Holmes

02-04-2005, 04:11 PM

I prefer to move

more like a cat.

Meaning...?

Detached, deliberate, lithe,

slinky...?

Examples/specifics appreciated.

bjf

02-04-2005, 04:13 PM

Man, I really want to

make some comments on this thread based on the latest scientific research, but I'll hold my "tongue". Even though

it's on topic.

Carry on.

Please elaborate.

MOBLEYC57

02-04-2005, 04:32 PM

Please

elaborate.
My ears are open! :blink:

Marlboro_man

02-05-2005, 01:22 AM

Man, I

really want to make some comments on this thread based on the latest scientific research, but I'll hold my

"tongue". Even though it's on topic.

Carry on.
IT's my thread and your knowledge is welcome but

please try to keep it close to the original topic which is body language.

Gegogi

02-05-2005, 01:32 AM

Move like a cat: swift, graceful,

strong, silent and alert. I tread lightly and am extremely good at sneaking up on people. Back in the day I was an

accomplished hunter and tracker. I got bored of killing animals...

Holmes

02-05-2005, 06:44 AM

Thanks, Gegogi.

Has that

way of moving come naturally for you or is it something you've had to work on (or, at least, be conscious of)...?

Gegogi

02-05-2005, 11:30 AM

I studied ballet, acting and

music for years. I wasn't very good at ballet... And, yes, years ago, I actually worked on posture and walking with

a coach! Being on stage requires you to be extremely body and voice conscious. Plus it helps you project a desired

persona and builds confidence.

Marlboro_man

02-05-2005, 12:46 PM

Geoggi I now have an idea

about most of your walk but could you take a moment to explain what your arms are doing. I find that when I started

to work on my posture and slowing down my walk that I really didn't have a good feel about what my arms should be

doing and as a matter of fact, I am still not too sure.

Gegogi

02-05-2005, 05:38 PM

I almost always have an

instrument or camera in hand. On the rare occasions my hand are free, I gently swing my arms. If you watch the basic

posture of ballet (even flamenco dancers do it) dancers impart a feeling of expanding the upper body: head raised

high, neck and back straight, shoulders back, etc. It's more of an artistic walk that matches my personality. A lot

of macho wantabes walk with their arms stiff and tense (so muscles stand out more?), almost as if they have their

finger on the trigger of a gun.

Marlboro_man

02-11-2005, 12:40 PM

Friendly I have ordered all

the books you recommended and have gotten through two of them so far. For those of you who didn't read the

original body language thread here is a list of Friendly1's reccomendations. Thank you again Friendly!

Body

Language by Julius Fast. Not very detailed. This book is good for people who want to learn more about marking

turf than anything else. He spends a lot of the book talking about personal space and other kinds of space. You can

learn about dominating the regions around you.

How to read a person like a book by Gerald I. Neirenberg

and Henrey H. Calero. Extensively illustrated, this book covers basic gestures, posturing, and how to identify roles

within relationships (friends, lovers, bosses and subordinates, etc.). This book has some useful guidelines for

negatioting with other people, including tips for men on how to read women's receptiveness.

Body Language

Secrets by Susan Quilliam. Includes a lot of pointless or goofy illustrations, but it is broken up into a lot of

How-To sections which explain how you can work your way into new groups, new situations, etc. by employing skillful

body language.

Reading People by Jo-Ellen Dimitrius and Mark Mazzarella. Very good introduction to reading

people. She is a Ph.D. with extensive research experience. He is a successful trial attorney. She consults on jury

selection. She is a very detail oriented person and her perspective helps you realize how to look beyond the usual

signs people try to broadcast. It IS possible to lie through body language, but she holds that there are usually

tell-tale signs which contradict the lies.

Body Language Secrets by Don Steele. He is a retired

psychologist of some sort who worked with families and studied body language. This book is not nearly as good as it

is hyped up to be by Steele and his followers. But it is still a good introduction to the body language of meeting,

courting, and seducing people. He gives tips to both men and women. Includes many pictures of Steele and his wife.

Steele has a preachy, amateurish writing style. He claims to have had affairs with dozens of women many years

younger than him. He exudes confidence and is a dominant male. About half this book seems to be devoted to selling

you his other books. But he does go into details on how to send certain signals and provides many lists and

anecdotes on things to do, not to do in social situations.

Freeway of Love by Jan Latiolais Hargrave. This

is a dumbed-down, "What colour is your parachute" kind of book for people who want to learn about body language and

how to use it to meet and court other people. She relies on illustrations which are not quite as goofy as

Quilliam's book. She also has a lot of self-tests with scores. Many women writers like this sort of thing, and the

book may be more appealing to men. Nonetheless, it IS a woman's perspective on body language and men need to take

that into consideration. She provides chapters on palm reading and kissing (complete with statistics and

anecdotes).

I know what you're thinking by Lillian Glass. She is a practicing, clinical psychologist who

has had to rely on body language in many situations. Her book is, in my opinion, by far the best one out there that

I have found. She is not concerned with preaching "how to get into anyone's pants" or "how to find true love". She

takes you on a guided tour of the basic human psyche and how we reveal our inner feelings through the way we

physically express ourselves.

Marlboro_man

02-11-2005, 12:51 PM

To date I have read a total

of 5 books on the topic and still have questions on things that aren't addressed. So here's 2 more for you

guys.
1 A girl sitting across the room just observing people sits with her hands under her legs. Yes I know it's

possible her hands might be cold but I am looking for the BL meaning of it.

2. What does it mean when a person

sits with one leg folded up under them?

Friendly1

02-11-2005, 03:57 PM

1 A girl

sitting across the room just observing people sits with her hands under her legs.
Too little information

to provide a valid or probable inference. Generally speaking, it probably means she is holding herself back, trying

to maintain some sort of self-control. But you have to see what else is going on to figure out why she feels the

need to do that. It could be she is bored but wants to be lady-like. It could be she just had a big fight and

wants to calm down. It could be she is angry or frightened and wants to feel safe or in conrtol. It could be she

is so turned on she has to bury her hands to prevent herself from doing anything stupid in public (odds of that

being the case are probably 1 in 10,000,000,000).

2. What does it mean when a person sits with one leg

folded up under them?
Many women do that when they are feeling comfortable. I haven't sat that way in

so long, I don't remember what I was feeling (except more flexible than I feel now).

CptKipling

02-11-2005, 04:40 PM

1 A girl

sitting across the room just observing people sits with her hands under her legs. Yes I know it's possible her

hands might be cold but I am looking for the BL meaning of it.
Nervous or trying to hide something I think

(maybe trying to hide her own body language).

MOBLEYC57

02-11-2005, 04:43 PM

Nervous or

trying to hide something I think (maybe trying to hide her own body language).
If there is a meaning to

that ... I see young women sitting like that lots. :sick:

CptKipling

02-11-2005, 04:46 PM

As Friendly says, it's all

relative, so it's hard to say for certain without seeing the person.

MOBLEYC57

02-11-2005, 10:14 PM

7

Essential Body Language Tips

------------------------------

The

secrets of our body language have been around forever yet people constantly fail to recognize the importance of

using body language to their advantage. Did you know that people only pay attention to 7% of what we say? Where does

the rest of their attention go? You guessed it right: our body language. Now let me give my 7 BLT's so that you can

use your body language much more efficiently when interacting with people.

1- Always look at someone directly in

their eyes when they are speaking to you. This may seem difficult at first but it’s definitely the #1 body language

ingredient to make you successful when interacting with others. Note: Do not ever stare at someone.

2- Always

stand up straight. You never want to slouch. Not only does this make you appear shorter but it projects an image of

someone who has low self-esteem.

3- Smile. Smiling is your most powerful body language signal. Though it is not

recommended to smile constantly (people will be under the impression you are searching for approval), you

should
still make an effort to appear happy and optimistic.

4- Do not make repeated, nervous like gestures.

When speaking to someone it’s important to use body movements but never fast and repetitive ones (picture someone

who is nervous while public
speaking; this is exactly what you're NOT aiming for).

5- Create your own personal

space. Make sure you let others know you have your own personal space and do not let them walk all over you. Note:

you never want to invade someone else’s personal space.

6- Dedicate all of your attention to the person you are

speaking with. Do not constantly look around as if you are uncomfortable or not interested.

7- Make sure to

emphasize all of these tips when you meet someone new. First impressions count for a lot. You want to make the best

impression you can.

Most people are unaware of the way they are projecting themselves because in general, people

will detect body language signals subconsciously. Make an effort to apply all seven of these tips and people will

react differently when you are speaking to them.

Marlboro_man

02-12-2005, 01:51 AM

Too little

information to provide a valid or probable inference. Generally speaking, it probably means she is holding herself

back, trying to maintain some sort of self-control. But you have to see what else is going on to figure out why she

feels the need to do that. It could be she is bored but wants to be lady-like. It could be she just had a big fight

and wants to calm down. It could be she is angry or frightened and wants to feel safe or in conrtol. It could be she

is so turned on she has to bury her hands to prevent herself from doing anything stupid in public (odds of that

being the case are probably 1 in 10,000,000,000).

Many women do that when they are feeling comfortable. I

haven't sat that way in so long, I don't remember what I was feeling (except more flexible than I feel

now).
Thanks thats the info I was looking for on the first question, in other words all the possibilities

and then read the rest of the clues

The second answer makes me wonder when you say women do that when they feel

comfortable as I found myself doing that several times last night.

Marlboro_man

02-12-2005, 01:56 AM

7 Essential Body Language

Tips

------------------------------

3- Smile. Smiling is

your most powerful body language signal. Though it is not recommended to smile constantly (people will be under the

impression you are searching for approval), you should
still make an effort to appear happy and optimistic.

5-

Create your own personal space. Make sure you let others know you have your own personal space and do not let them

walk all over you. Note: you never want to invade someone else’s personal space.

In regards to number 3

it depends on your goal, there is something to be said for guys who smile little when meeting a woman because it

creates a little mystery. You can also use smiles to affirm good behavior when dating someone.

In regards to

number 5, yes have your own personal space but you do want to occasionally invade another person's (who your

interested in) personal space to see how they respond. If they pull back you moving too quickly, but if they allow

it then your doing just fine. Note: Don't do it for extended periods of time but rather just to gauge where you

are with the other sex unless of course you are getting intimate, then you have to be in their personal space. Also

personal space varies from culture to culture but I believe in America it's somewhere around 3 feet.

Gegogi

02-12-2005, 02:19 AM

"5- Create your own

personal space. Make sure you let others know you have your own personal space and do not let them walk all over

you. Note: you never want to invade someone else’s personal space.

The concept and size of "personal

space" varies considerly from culture to culture. When visiting Japan and Korea I actually got angry because

strangers and acquaintances constantly invaded my personal space. Attractive women, little girls, old men, etc.,

didn't care if they touched or leaned on me in public or private places. It took a long time to get used to it.

They drive really close too.

"1- Always look at someone directly in their eyes when they are speaking

to you. This may seem difficult at first but it’s definitely the #1 body language ingredient to make you successful

when interacting with others.

In regards to eye contact, many Asians view this differently as well.

Making eye contact is considered rude, disrespectful or hostile in many situations. Living in Hawaii--a melting pot

of East and West--I experience the cultural-racial differences in eye contact customs everyday. Often White

Americans think Asians dislike them because they avoid eye contact (or suffer from low self-esteem!). Many Asians

think the Whites are disrespectful or overly aggressive! I've actually been called a banana because I walk, talk,

act and smell (the 'mones?) like a White guy (I'm Asian).

Friendly1

02-12-2005, 08:22 AM

The second

answer makes me wonder when you say women do that when they feel comfortable as I found myself doing that several

times last night.
Given the context of your question, I thought you wanted to know what it was most likely

to mean when a woman sits that way. I was simply pointing out that I don't remember what I was feeling when I used

to sit that way. If you, yourself, can still comfortably sit that way, then your own feelings are the best guide to

why a man sits like that.

Although I strive to stay physically fit, there are some positions that give me

discomfort, and that tends to be one of them. Of course, even when I was a kid, I didn't like sitting with my legs

crossed or on my knees for very long.

One leg crossed on top of the other is usually seen as a dominant gesture.

One leg crossed under the other is usually seen as a relaxed, comfortable gesture. But both body positions can

have other means, other significance.

If someone is hiding their hands or their feet, they are probably holding

in some strong feelings.

If someone is gripping a wrist or an ankle, they are probably feeling tense, maybe a

little uncertain, and are trying to brace themselves or ground themselves.

But none of these gestures, by

themselves, reveal enough about what is going on. For example, I sometimes sit with one leg crossed over the other

in cramped seating, and I'll grasp my ankle to make it easier to allow someone to pass by me. I may also do that

so I can massage my legs.

Friendly1

02-12-2005, 08:23 AM

MOBLEYC57

02-12-2005, 02:42 PM

I really wish

you guys would provide some attribution (a link) for these articles, rather than just post them in their entirety

without any credit.

I am SURE I have read that before somewhere on the Web. It is a very simple, generic

introduction to using body language to be more assertive. It is probably most useful in American business

settings.

Gegogi is very right about being careful when using body language to communicate to someone from

another culture.
Can't help you on the linky thingy, Friendly. I tried posting a link from my e-mail

account, and it didn't work. But, it came from DatingClass, if that will help.

MOBLEYC57

02-13-2005, 04:52 PM

Because of these posts, I've been watching people a little more than normal. BL is scared into

my every thoughts when I'm out in public! :rant:

Last week, I went to my Community College's basketball game

... not to meet anyone, just to have something to do. I'm seating there watching the game, when I see one of my

female teachers walking on the other side, and takes a seat behind the team. No big deal. At half time, I go out to

the little boy's room. No big deal. Comes back, and the second half starts. Deep inside my mind, BODY LANGUAGE

says, "hey Mobley! Look over at your teacher and tell me what's odd out of all the people over there on that

side of the court."

I look over, and everybody's knees (about 40 people, sitting) are pointing

left, but my teacher's knees where pointed right, straight at me! She looked out of place, and it was sooooo

noticeable! What in the hell have you all done to me with all this body language talk!!? :think:

koolking1

02-13-2005, 05:18 PM

go for it Mob, go for it!!!

I love this thread!!!

bjf

02-13-2005, 05:42 PM

Because of these

posts, I've been watching people a little more than normal. BL is scared into my every thoughts when I'm out in

public! :rant:

Last week, I went to my Community College's basketball game ... not to meet anyone, just to

have something to do. I'm seating there watching the game, when I see one of my female teachers walking on the

other side, and takes a seat behind the team. No big deal. At half time, I go out to the little boy's room. No big

deal. Comes back, and the second half starts. Deep inside my mind, BODY LANGUAGE says, "hey Mobley! Look over

at your teacher and tell me what's odd out of all the people over there on that side of the

court."

I look over, and everybody's knees (about 40 people, sitting) are pointing left, but

my teacher's knees where pointed right, straight at me! She looked out of place, and it was sooooo noticeable!

What in the hell have you all done to me with all this body language talk!!? :think:

The same

teacher who gets flushed :wub: ?

Marlboro_man

02-13-2005, 05:47 PM

Because of

these posts, I've been watching people a little more than normal. BL is scared into my every thoughts when I'm out

in public! :rant:

Last week, I went to my Community College's basketball game ... not to meet anyone, just to

have something to do. I'm seating there watching the game, when I see one of my female teachers walking on the

other side, and takes a seat behind the team. No big deal. At half time, I go out to the little boy's room. No big

deal. Comes back, and the second half starts. Deep inside my mind, BODY LANGUAGE says, "hey Mobley! Look over

at your teacher and tell me what's odd out of all the people over there on that side of the court."

I

look over, and everybody's knees (about 40 people, sitting) are pointing left, but my teacher's knees where

pointed right, straight at me! She looked out of place, and it was sooooo noticeable! What in the hell have you all

done to me with all this body language talk!!? :think:Hey Mobes this is where it gets interesting. I was at

that stage a couple of months ago and although I am no where near friendly's level I am moving closer to him. It

seems like you are at the point where you will almost overanalyze everything as I was not too long ago. Remember to

keep watching and practicing and looks for groups of gestures. It opens a whole new world for you.

MOBLEYC57

02-13-2005, 08:01 PM

Hey Mobes

this is where it gets interesting. I was at that stage a couple of months ago and although I am no where near

friendly's level I am moving closer to him. It seems like you are at the point where you will almost overanalyze

everything as I was not too long ago. Remember to keep watching and practicing and looks for groups of gestures. It

opens a whole new world for you.That use to be me ... overanalyzing everything. It just looked so odd when I

noticed ... every single set of knees were pointing left towards our home team's bench, but her knees were turned

right, pointing directly at me. :think:

I've said all that to say ... body language seems to take over

whenever I'm out in public. Constantly looking at feet and legs to see where they're pointing ... hair twirling

... tampering with jewelry ... everything ... looking to see if I see that combination of motions! :frustrate I've

read in a book that it has to be a two or more combinations of movements in order to place your bet on

she's interested. Anyone!? Anyone!? :blink:

This forum has created a B/L monster! :smite:

No, BJF, this is another one of my teachers. :blink:

Friendly1

02-13-2005, 10:35 PM

Can't help

you on the linky thingy, Friendly. I tried posting a link from my e-mail account, and it didn't work. But, it came

from DatingClass, if that will help.
I have visited that site. It used to come up in all sorts of

searches on Google. I don't run into it much any more.

Friendly1

02-13-2005, 10:45 PM

You know, there is this Asian

girl in those dance classes I help with. I emphasize her ethnicity because, when I first met her, a few months ago

(and we have probably said all of three sentences to each other), she was with an Asian guy. The way they behave

when they are together leads me to believe that he is her boyfriend. They both take the classes and they have just

joined the advanced group.

Well, this girl used to flirt with me when the boyfriend wasn't looking. But at some

point along the way, I apparently gave her some too-heavy criticism and she started avoiding me. She is really,

really cute and very curvacious and is just fun for a guy to look at. So, I backed off and eventually she started

looking, smiling, and primping again.

Now, because of what the Asians here (and some of my Asian friends have

told me offline) have said, I believe this girl (who still speaks, I think, Chinese with her boyfriend) is somewhat

traditional. That is, based on the way she behaves AND on what people have told me about traditional Asian girls, I

think she has truly given her heart to this boy.

Nonetheless, yesterday (Saturday) I was helping with an

intermediate class, and she and the boyfriend were in there, too. I am not sure if they are taking both classes (I

used to do that, so it's not all that strange) or if they were just helping. The difference between helping with a

class and taking a class is that if you are helping, you may not be included in partner rotations. In fact, the

teacher will ask helpers to leave if they are of the wrong sex. I get to stay because I help HER demonstrate AND I

can coach the students on some points.

So, there I was, helping with the rotation in this intermediate class,

and the cute Asian girl comes up in the rotation, all smiles and giggles. I was wearing 2-3 spritzes of Beta

Chikara, for those of you who want to know. Nothing else, but we HAD just finished the Advanced class, and so I was

a little sweaty.

Well, this intermediate class was learning how the man brings his partner around behind him and

then does a couple of side steps while holding the girl's hands on his hips.

You get all sorts of partners in

these classes. Skinny ones, fat ones, tall ones, short ones. They have different length arms.

I have danced with

this girl enough to know that her arms are just normal for her body size. She is almost as tall as me (which isn't

very tall). I mean, proportionately, she and I fit very well together.

Nonetheless, as I sweep her behind me,

and I notice that Boyfriend is in the front row on the far side of the room where he cannot see us, I suddenly enjoy

a headlight moment.

Yes, ladies and germs, she slammed her braless breasts into my back and rubbed me good. I

nearly jumped out of my shoes.

This-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken....

Gegogi

02-14-2005, 01:19 AM

"This-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken...."

Friendly,

nice little story, and, incidentally, you're a better man than me. When I get the tease and hear the still little

voice telling me to run I ignore it and get in all sorts of trouble.

Holmes

02-14-2005, 08:54 AM

This-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken-this-girl-is-taken....

I

feel your pain. :lol:

Good post.

Friendly1

02-14-2005, 09:08 AM

Friendly, nice

little story, and, incidentally, you're a better man than me. When I get the tease and hear the still little voice

telling me to run I ignore it and get in all sorts of trouble.
Temptation is not so near for me as it

might seem. I see most of these girls for precisely one hour per week. Some of them come out to the clubs. Some

of them help with classes or take makeups.

But there are days when I feel like a worker in a hamburger factory.

There are so many of them, and they come through so quickly, that only the really aggressive ones get much of a

chance with me.

So often during a rotation at the beginning of a month, I'll partner up with someone and

she'll say, "Hi! Remember me?"

And, of course, I don't, and I have to hear how they saw me or whatever in some

past lifetime that has long since passed.

And as soon as one makes her mark, even if I don't feel like I am

responding, the others lose interest. It's like, "Hey, let me TALK to someone without the rest of you thinking I

have chosen my life partner."

Sometimes they come back and flirt some more. One Asian girl has actually started

flirting with me again, now that she isn't seeing another girl hanging around me (she went overseas for a few

weeks).

I don't have the heart to tell these girls the one I am most interested in doesn't dance. I think

there must be something profound in that fact, but I have no idea of what it is....

Marlboro_man

02-14-2005, 10:02 AM

I've

said all that to say ... body language seems to take over whenever I'm out in public. Constantly looking at feet

and legs to see where they're pointing ... hair twirling ... tampering with jewelry ... everything ... looking to

see if I see that combination of motions! :frustrate I've read in a book that it has to be a two or

more combinations of movements in order to place your bet on she's interested. Anyone!?

Anyone!? :blink:

I would say look for larger groups than 2. Think like 4 or more BL movements,

however that means that you need to know what your looking for. Your ideal scenario would be if you can observe

them from a distance without them knowing you exist, then move in and see the differences. The reason for this is

to tell if they are giving you signals or not, for example I know a couple of girls who twirl their hair all the

time no matter what they are doing. I misinterpretted that a while back when I first met one and didn't know the

rest of the signals to look for.

Marlboro_man

02-14-2005, 10:06 AM

[QUOTE=Friendly1]Nonetheless, as I sweep her behind me, and I notice that Boyfriend is in the front row on the far

side of the room where he cannot see us, I suddenly enjoy a headlight moment.

Yes, ladies and germs, she slammed

her braless breasts into my back and rubbed me good. I nearly jumped out of my shoes.
QUOTE]

Friendly, How are

you able to tell that this was a signal vs her just being clumsy? I ask because it happens to me alot but I don't

know when it's accidental or on purpose. I know the obvious such as if they have 5 feet between you and the wall

and they still do it then it's on purpose but what about in crowded settings or things such as dancing?

Friendly1

02-14-2005, 11:58 AM

Friendly,

How are you able to tell that this was a signal vs her just being clumsy?I've been taking the advanced

class for about two years (with a little break for when I went to Florida last year). The steps are hard to learn

and the teacher doesn't allow just anyone into the class.

Clumsy people don't make the cut.

Of course, the

fact that she kept doing it, and the fact that she didn't pull away, told me she enjoyed the sensation.

Remember, this is normally a girl who doesn't speak to me, who has in the past avoided having any contact with me

because of something I said or did (I don't know), and who is open, friendly, and affectionate ONLY with her

boyfriend. She doesn't socialize with the other students. I probably should have mentioned that, but I was trying

to convey, with my assessment of her as a traditional Asian girl, that I don't expect forward, aggressive,

American-style behavior from her.

...I ask because it happens to me alot but I don't know when it's

accidental or on purpose. I know the obvious such as if they have 5 feet between you and the wall and they still do

it then it's on purpose but what about in crowded settings or things such as dancing?When I am dancing in

closed position with beginners, the first contact with a woman's breast almost always feels accidental. It is a

very quick, light sensation where my hand accidentally brushes against the side of her breast. Those women/girls who

then do it to me again become more aggressive. They don't leave it at "just accidentally brushing the side of my

breast with your hand", they start moving into my personal space (breaking the frame), leaning in close, turning

awkwardly so that their breasts rub against my chest or my arm (or both, if they can manage it).

I find their

butts in my hand. I find them leaning into my back (literally leaning on me). I find them standing so close to me

that our arms touch and if one of us turns close to the other, I am in her chest.

Women are very protective

about their personal space. They don't just let any guy feel them. So, after the first contact, if it keeps

happening, I assume she is enjoying herself and maybe trying to get a rise out of me.

But short of asking her

and getting an honest answer from a girl, in most cases, I am only able to infer that she is doing it

deliberately.

I often find myself moving backwards in these dance classes as they try to close distance with me.

Sometimes, I don't mind the closeness. But it depends on how bad their breath is (and some of them could knock rats

off a trash barge at fifty feet), how strong their body odor is, how cute they are, how attached they may be to that

guy staring at me from the corner, etc.

There is another Asian lady in the advanced class who has been coming on

to me for months. She is absolutely gorgeous and, so far as I know, she is not involved in a relationship. She has a

son she seems to share custody of with the father, as I only see him on rare occasions.

She rubs up against me,

offers to undress, tells me in double entendre that she would sleep with me, has complained about my not asking her

to dance, etc. I have written about her before. One night, I moved around the classroom as she was talking to

another man. No matter where I stood, she pointed her feet toward me.

But she never goes anywhere alone. She has

a dance partner from another class and he is always with her. So, either she wants me to ask her out (not going to

happen) or she just loves to flirt and to flirt physically.

It just gets to a point where you are so used to

feeling women rub against you, and making suggestive statements, that you assume they really ARE doing it to YOU.

I try to tune it out as much as I can, especially in the dance classes, but I also try to pay attention to who is

interested. I have spent some time with a few of the girls, and you never know, I may meet someone special in one of

these classes.

Still, there are moments when they surprise me, like this girl did when she rubbed up against me.

I guess she just wanted to enjoy the sensation of rubbing her nipples across my back.

Marlboro_man

02-14-2005, 12:44 PM

Of

course, the fact that she kept doing it, and the fact that she didn't pull away, told me she enjoyed the

sensation.

The fact that it was multiple times was left out of the first post, now it's obvious she was

doing it intentionally.

Women are very protective about their personal space. They don't

just let any guy feel them. So, after the first contact, if it keeps happening, I assume she is enjoying herself and

maybe trying to get a rise out of me.

But short of asking her and getting an honest answer from a girl, in most

cases, I am only able to infer that she is doing it deliberately.

What if it happens only once. For

example if they pass by you in a crowded place. How do you know if it's intentional? Can you know unless you are

facing her and can make eye contact of course?

I have noticed that when I am in a bar women do this alot when

going through the crowd. (yeah I know you can mention lack of space) If it's real crowded they have to turn one

way or the other and over 90% of the time they choose to rub on me vs the guy or girl on the other side.

Marlboro_man

02-14-2005, 01:31 PM

Copied from another thread that went off topic.

I've started to pay attention to

BL too because of all this. The other night at a bar, there was a girl who was sitting all different from the rest,

she was with her friends at the actual bar, and she was seated with her body pointed toward me.

I would not have

picked up on this but I thought she was affected because of what I thought was eye contact.

Then I noticed her

stroking her straw up and down like a penis :lol: I never would have seen this had it been for the obvious eye

contact. She kept turning to look at me - did so about 20-25 times within the span of an hour (nuts right?).

Actually when I did make eye contact, she immediately turned rght to the bar, and then her back was toward me.

Eventually she shifted her position again. I interpreted it as her shyness of course.

About not breaking eye

contact, I get that alot...but what does it mean when YOU are first looking at them, and then they look right back

at you w/o breaking eye contact?

Marlboro_man

02-14-2005, 01:34 PM

About not

breaking eye contact, I get that alot...but what does it mean when YOU are first looking at them, and then they look

right back at you w/o breaking eye contact?Usually that's a pretty agressive girl who probably wants you

pretty bad, or wants to kill you LOL! Seriously either you have a horn growing out of your head or it's one of the

other 2. If the rest of the body language says she wants you, then she wants you really bad. Next time it happens

walk right up to her immediately and talk.

bjf

02-14-2005, 01:45 PM

Well, if she's hot I'll talk to her

:)

But are you sure, it's not just a response to the fact that I am looking at them in their eyes?

Fatal

02-14-2005, 04:40 PM

About clothing.. Apperently I

dress so good, girls ask me if I'm gay because of it. Knowing a little fashion goes along way with the ladies, and

they are supprised when I say I'm not. It's a huge advantage over about 90% of the guys in my school who don't.

Just watch yourself. It sais so many things about you to a girl. And I don't dress with the trend or the hollister

abercrombie craze. That's not what I'm talking about, you have to go above that. I just dress how I like and what

I think is cool. Even if it's not the "cool" thing, if I like it, I do it. And most of the time people thing it's

cool and I standout and other people start following MY trend.

Marlboro_man

02-14-2005, 06:47 PM

Well, if she's

hot I'll talk to her :)

But are you sure, it's not just a response to the fact that I am looking at them in

their eyes?
First off normal eye's on an interested girl go lock this. They meet your gaze, then look

down, then away, and finally they look back usually within 10 secs.
Uninterested girls don't meet your eyes, but

if they do they will look to the side instead of down and not look back in a few secs (unless they are paranoid of

you like your a stalker or something).

Now take that into account and see what happens next time you have

prolonged eye contact. I wouldn't hold their eyes for any more than 3 secs, but watch out of the corner of your

eye to see if they look right back. If they do your definitely in. Also watch for the rest of the cluster of BL

such as pointing, hair flipping (pruning), stroking etc... Put it all together and only you will know the answer to

each case by case scenario.

Friendly1

02-14-2005, 06:51 PM

The fact

that it was multiple times was left out of the first post, now it's obvious she was doing it intentionally.

Details. :run:

What if it happens only once. For example if they pass by you in a crowded place.

How do you know if it's intentional? Can you know unless you are facing her and can make eye contact of

course?
When in doubt, move. Do something different. Or do the same thing again. Give her an

opportunity to confirm your first instinct.

I have noticed that when I am in a bar women do this alot

when going through the crowd. (yeah I know you can mention lack of space) If it's real crowded they have to turn

one way or the other and over 90% of the time they choose to rub on me vs the guy or girl on the other side.

There's just no way you can know from one incident, unless they are looking you straight in the eye with that

"Come hither and EARN it" expression.

TRock

02-14-2005, 08:26 PM

Well, if she's hot

I'll talk to her :)

But are you sure, it's not just a response to the fact that I am looking at them in their

eyes?
if they're not interested in you they'll look away.

i get girls refusing to break eye contact

all the time. i asked friendly the same question some time ago. she wants your sausage.

bjf

02-14-2005, 08:36 PM

hmmm.... I don't know Trock.

Maybe. I guess it is just the fact that I am the one starting the eye contact that has me not sure what the deal

is. I am not an intimidating guy and I do tend to look them deep into their eyes. I figure they are just kind of

investigating me or my intentions.

They don't look down or down and to the right, btw MM. Actually they

just tend to turn their head and we break EC around the same time.

TRock

02-14-2005, 09:00 PM

it's fairly simple man, no need

to overanalyze it for more that it is. you're a sexy guy that they can't keep their eyes off of.

if you were a

girl would you maintain eye contact with a guy that you are not interested in?

Friendly1

02-14-2005, 09:36 PM

Some girls know how to flirt

better than others. The ones who don't look down and away first, but who are interested, can be a little clumsier

or a little more blatant. But they will still do certain things subconsciously: they'll look at you, they'll face

you with their bodies, they'll try to be near you, they'll give you opportunities to speak to them.

If she

doesn't want to be near you, she'll do whatever she can to avoid you.

If she is just feeling uncomfortable,

all you need to do (usually) is back off, leave her alone, ignore her, and she may decide to come back. Sometimes,

they have to build up their courage and confidence as much as or more than we do. And that doesn't necessarily

mean they have unusually low self-esteem or anything like that.

Men are expected to be more forward and

aggressive in expressing their interest than women. The women most likely to be forward and aggressive are the ones

with sexual experience. They feel their power.