Christmas Unpleasantness & Observations

[Sir Louis]

Much of my time wearing pheromones is trying to understand how to employ androstenone
with differnt

types of people, so I end up wearing it in nearly every social situation.
This Christmas was a good example why

you should be cautious with androstenone in some
situations though.

I was out of state seeing relatives

and friends, which consisted of various young adults,
kids, and seniors, and one particular overweight

sedentiary family and their 16 year old
daughter. Everything was going without a hitch until I decided to dab

two small drops of
AE/M on each side of my neck to see the reactions.

I shouldn't have done

that.

I had met their daughter last Christmas, we got along very well and I was looking forward
to having

a fun time again. Unfortunately, I noticed that whenever I was anywhere near her,
she would would move to the

other side of the house, and although she didn't appear nervous,
she would not under any circumstances, look at

me or talk to me, and did everything
possible to avoid me the entire time, except to threaten me (while unable to

maintain eye
contact) when I was in her spot, and seemed annoyed at my "complaining". Keep in mind, I
was also

dressed in a sweater and cargo pants, I was dressed like Bob Sagat, on top of
that I was wearing Heart by Axe; if

that wasn't enough she had taken three Vicodin because
of her ankle (!), yet it was as if Darth Vader was

standing next to her.

Meanwhile, her mother and brothers (men in their mid 20's, and about 250 lbs) began

acting
strangely. The father began talking about torture methods (half-jokingly and with masked
aggression)

and directing them towards me, ("I'd give you a columbian neck-tie, then..").
Her overweight mother also started

putting me down out of nowhere with passive-aggression,
as if trying to start a fight with me by hurting my

feelings. I had realized my err early on
and was attempting to cut my losses by being warm, cordial, approachable

and
giving smiling responses.

The effect on the alpha-males however was hilarious. My two older brothers,

both alpha males
(and hard core automotive enthusiasts), became overtly friendly. Another family friend,

a
large strapping Texan who was a hunter, was overtly respectful, greeted me warmly and shook
my hand

everytime he entered the house. The passive-aggressive behavior also didn't occur
with my brothers' wives, who

were very friendly, made solid eye contact, completely normal
behavior, except one of them would hug me each time

she entered the house several times a day.

The girl's behavior however began to get strange to the degree my

younger brother was wondering
what was with her, because she stopped talking whenever I came near her. I sulked

and let him
in on what it was I was wearing. He was very interested, but I told him what was happening and
I

wasn't amused at all.

"She's sitting on the couch", I whispered, and he looked at her. "If I sit on the

other couch
and she doesn't get up and move to where they are in under twenty seconds, you owe me $10".
He

nodded. She had already done it half a dozen times. I walked over to where she was and sat
on the ajoining couch;

sure enough in less than 20 seconds... :run:

I looked at him with raised eyebrows.

"Will you be paying

with cash, check, or credit card?". He had a huge shit-eating grin on his
face.

"Holy.."

I really

felt like shit, mind you, and after coming back (after spending several hundred dollars
on the trip) and feeling

so bad about this whole thing, I suppose my only consolation after the
fact is writing this post for others who

enjoy playing dice with androstenone-containing
products. I have used PI/M, AE/M, NPA, SOE, Athena 10X (jury is

still out on that one), and Realm.
Of all these products, my favorite remains Erox's Realm (which I wished I had

been wearing!),
which can be found at any local Eckards or Walgreens for the whopping price of $19.95.

You

would think androstenone would cause alpha-males and females to feel threatened, and
beta-males and females act

more respectful - not the other way around (!). Any comments and
observations are appreciated.

[esk6969]

Any comments

and
observations are appreciated.


Ok, since you asked....




...if that

wasn't enough she had taken three Vicodin because
of her ankle (!), ...


Ummmm..... I think this

was a MAJOR factor in your negative reactions. Have you ever taken Vicodin? ONE is enough to make someone loopy.

Three?! :eek: I'm surpised she was still upright. This definitely could have been the cause of such a

negative/unpredictable reaction. Remember, this is a biological thing, so reactions will be based upon all factors

in the environment, not just the 'mones.

Based on your post, it sounds like you are younger (since you're

talking about a 16 yo girl). You may already be giving off a lot of 'none, and for you, this may have been an OD

or near-OD application, though I do not think it would be for most people. Enough to intimidate the young, but not

enough to threaten older people, yet enough to elicit respect. These sound more like PI or other pure 'none

reactions, rather than those typical of a mixed product like AE/M. If I were you, I would either cut the dosage, or

mix with another non-none product like SOE or WAGG. But everyone here says to experiment with one product at a

time, so I would probably just go down to one swipe to start with.

One thing I don't understand - since it was

on your neck, and you felt so bad about the reactions, why didn't you just go into the bathroom and wash it off?

At least some soap & water, with a washcloth, would have at least removed some of it, until you could get a proper

shower....

[kappakai]

Three vicodins... damn, she

should have had a smile just plastered to her face the whole time, unless she had way too much (very possible for a

16 yr. old), at which point all sounds can become very annoying and she could have just been annoyed.

I

agree with Esk, you sound like a younger guy (going for a 16yr. old, I'd hope so actually...) you will most likely

get a negative reaction from a teenage girl with none, either fear or dislike. even though AE is balanced, combined

with your own personal signature, it was probably none-heavy. use less, or use with SOE or WAGG even, but really,

better off not using any at all. her parents were probably annoyed by you; their comments and actions imply they

thought you were disrespectful or insolent, and probably some kind of threat. Personally, I would have run to the

bathroom to wash the AE off at that point...

[Gegogi]

I avoid big family gatherings on

holidays (but I like my immediate family). It's always unpleasant and a dog and pony show, 'nomes or not. After

all, you're trapped with a bunch of people you have little in common with and probably wouldn't otherwise

associate with.

[Mungojerry]

lllllllldddddddddddddddddddd

[Sir Louis]

Ummmm..... I think this

was a MAJOR factor in your negative reactions. Have you ever taken Vicodin? ONE is enough to make someone loopy.

Three?! :eek: I'm surpised she was still upright. This definitely could have been the cause of such a

negative/unpredictable reaction. Remember, this is a biological thing, so reactions will be based upon all factors

in the environment, not just the 'mones.
I was prescribed it once after a dental appointment.



I'd have to totally disagree here, and reading what you wrote, I'd have to ask you if you ever took it

yourself. On Vicodin, (Vicodin contains hydrocodone, a powerful sythetic opiate) people generally lose their

inhibitions and feel... :kiss:

Not:

:LOL:

As for her, she appeared completely normal around

people. Tolerance, obviously.



One thing I don't understand - since it was on your neck, and you

felt so bad about the reactions, why didn't you just go into the bathroom and wash it off?
Near the end

of the day, however I could still smell some on my collar (I brought only one heavy sweater with me).

[Sir Louis]

Although he

may have been doing so, he never actually said he was going for her in a sexual way. He just said he has a fun time

with her last time they met. It is sometimes possible to have fun without having sex, have you played hungry

hippos? :rofl:
:lol:

Yeah just a friendly thing, I wasn't attracted to her, and besides, I'm six

years her senior anyway. But she was very cool the last time I met her.

[surfs_up]

My experience is that certain psychological problems can become amplified in the presence

of androstenone. A guess as to why this might be : chemical imbalances in the brain are often related to excess

sensitivity to neurotransmitters or excess insensitivity to them. Persons with latent tendencies to "clinical

paranoia" or hyperagression, often coupled with weird social judgements probably a having strong jolts of dopamine

that trigger a cascade of wrong mental functions. There was one study of a notorious Dutch family that was known for

their violence, hair trigger explosive behavior, instability, and general disgusting comportment. It was determined

that they had severly disorded dopamine systems in their brains. In normal humans, dopamine is associated with

arousal, pleasure, and social interaction. In dopamine disturbed types, it is unregulated and leads to highly

antisocial behavior. Chances are excellent that this branch of the family has a genetic tendency to dopamine

saturation (they may not produce the enzyme that breaks dopamine down efficiently) and chemicals that trigger

dopamine release, which pheromones absolutely do (that's the cause of the pleasant social buzz they create) have

perverse effects in a small percentage of the population. This family should consider combined therapy, a small

daily dose of medication and extensive psychological counseling so they can understand where they are coming from

and how this causes them to be perceived by other people. However, also in my experience, too much dopamine (a

really good example of someone on waaay too much dopamine is someone abusing cocaine), is, just as with crackheads,

they tend to be narrow focused, closed minded, overly sensitive to judgments, take things too personally, make

mountains out of molehills, and don't willingly enter therapy out of their own choice.

[Bkflip]

Mabe you od'd OD had

BO...I guess you learned your lesson...Mabe the 16 year old girl was Horny and shy BECAUSE of the pheromones. and

thats why she mooved away.

Tell me sumthin:POKE: Y didnt you just go to a bar or skool--lots of diffrent people

there---why did you choose to wear them in frunt of your family and old people I kno I dont want a 80 year old woman

humpin my leg, or my mom......16 year old girl yes:lol:

[Bkflip]

Since the last time u met her

have you wore pheromones???
Have you asked her Y she kept mooving away then??

[Surreal]

My experience is

that certain psychological problems can become amplified in the presence of androstenone. A guess as to why this

might be : chemical imbalances in the brain are often related to excess sensitivity to neurotransmitters or excess

insensitivity to them. Persons with latent tendencies to "clinical paranoia" or hyperagression, often coupled with

weird social judgements probably a having strong jolts of dopamine that trigger a cascade of wrong mental functions.

There was one study of a notorious Dutch family that was known for their violence, hair trigger explosive behavior,

instability, and general disgusting comportment. It was determined that they had severly disorded dopamine systems

in their brains. In normal humans, dopamine is associated with arousal, pleasure, and social interaction. In

dopamine disturbed types, it is unregulated and leads to highly antisocial behavior. Chances are excellent that this

branch of the family has a genetic tendency to dopamine saturation (they may not produce the enzyme that breaks

dopamine down efficiently) and chemicals that trigger dopamine release, which pheromones absolutely do (that's the

cause of the pleasant social buzz they create) have perverse effects in a small percentage of the population. This

family should consider combined therapy, a small daily dose of medication and extensive psychological counseling so

they can understand where they are coming from and how this causes them to be perceived by other people. However,

also in my experience, too much dopamine (a really good example of someone on waaay too much dopamine is someone

abusing cocaine), is, just as with crackheads, they tend to be narrow focused, closed minded, overly sensitive to

judgments, take things too personally, make mountains out of molehills, and don't willingly enter therapy out of

their own choice.
Insightful. I see where this could be the explanation to the over problem with

hostility.

This is a possiblity......

She was on her period, you ODed due to your natural mones, and her

parents intuitively pick up on this and where on the defense for thier daughters sake. So in other words they saw

you as a preditor wanting to take thier daughter away.

This and surfs_up explaination could very well be near

the inter functions of emotions that night.

[belgareth]

Mabe u od'd OD

had BO...I guess you learned your lesson...Mabe the 16 year old girl was Horny and shy BECAUSE of the pheromones. N

thts y she mooved away.

Tell me sumthin:POKE: Y didnt you just go to a bar or skool--lots of diffrent ppl

there---Y did you choose to wear them in frunt of YOUR FAMILY and old people I kno I dont want a 80 year old woman

humpin my leg, or my mum......16 year old girl yes:lol:
Please use real English so we can read it without

trying to translate the lingo. The majority here don't speak it.

[Bkflip]

I "fixed" it, my bad-the

majority of the people on this fourm also do not read the rules:angel: although I try to be kind to people and have

courtesy, isnt that assumed the most often:type: -i just get lazy typing sumtimes:goodpost:

[Sir Louis]

Mabe you od'd

OD had BO...I guess you learned your lesson...Mabe the 16 year old girl was Horny and shy BECAUSE of the pheromones.

and thats why she mooved away.

Tell me sumthin:POKE: Y didnt you just go to a bar or skool--lots of diffrent

people there---why did you choose to wear them in frunt of your family and old people I kno I dont want a 80 year

old woman humpin my leg, or my mom......16 year old girl yes:lol:
Research, of course. Also it is always

amusing watching people get a little odd around you in a submissive manner. Unfortunately I still can't determine

what person will or won't react submissively or aggressively, unless they are clearly alpha-male or female, in

which case they act completely normal or better, so it's always a toss up when I wear it.

The majority of my

experiences wearing androstenone-containing products have been non sexual, (with a few hilarious exceptions).

[Sir Louis]

My experience

is that certain psychological problems can become amplified in the presence of androstenone. A guess as to why this

might be : chemical imbalances in the brain are often related to excess sensitivity to neurotransmitters or excess

insensitivity to them. Persons with latent tendencies to "clinical paranoia" or hyperagression, often coupled with

weird social judgements probably a having strong jolts of dopamine that trigger a cascade of wrong mental functions.

There was one study of a notorious Dutch family that was known for their violence, hair trigger explosive behavior,

instability, and general disgusting comportment. It was determined that they had severly disorded dopamine systems

in their brains. In normal humans, dopamine is associated with arousal, pleasure, and social interaction. In

dopamine disturbed types, it is unregulated and leads to highly antisocial behavior. Chances are excellent that this

branch of the family has a genetic tendency to dopamine saturation (they may not produce the enzyme that breaks

dopamine down efficiently) and chemicals that trigger dopamine release, which pheromones absolutely do (that's the

cause of the pleasant social buzz they create) have perverse effects in a small percentage of the population. This

family should consider combined therapy, a small daily dose of medication and extensive psychological counseling so

they can understand where they are coming from and how this causes them to be perceived by other people. However,

also in my experience, too much dopamine (a really good example of someone on waaay too much dopamine is someone

abusing cocaine), is, just as with crackheads, they tend to be narrow focused, closed minded, overly sensitive to

judgments, take things too personally, make mountains out of molehills, and don't willingly enter therapy out of

their own choice.
Excellent points, all around. I suppose I should have mentioned they were all

born-again Christians. I broke character and literally started twitching when the mother (who studied psychology and

had a 4 year degree in sociology) blabbered the Earth was 10,000 years old, and calmly and in a loving way,

explained to her what a lightyear was, that there were objects in the night sky you could view with a telescope

bought from WAL-MART that were millions of lightyears away from us, and that such was known for well over a hundred

years...
Boy was I on eggshells with her for the rest of the night after that. :lol:

[Sir Louis]

Insightful. I

see where this could be the explanation to the over problem with hostility.

This is a possiblity......



She was on her period, you ODed due to your natural mones, and her parents intuitively pick up on this and where

on the defense for thier daughters sake. So in other words they saw you as a preditor wanting to take thier daughter

away.

This and surfs_up explaination could very well be near the inter functions of emotions that

night.
A good observation I hadn't considered at all. Very possible. As for the parents, weird...

[Sir Louis]

Mabe you od'd OD had

BO...I guess you learned your lesson...Mabe the 16 year old girl was Horny and shy BECAUSE of the pheromones. and

thats why she mooved away.

Is that possible? I'm of the school of thought that attraction is a

positive magnetism (e.g, my brothers wives), not a negative or aggressive/flight response.

[Bkflip]

Yea but the pheromones may have

made her shy....she may have not wanted to be around you because she got wobbly/horny when you were there, but thats

just my oppinion. There are girls like that in my skool sumtimes you hear them talking, sumthin like this "he makes

me shy and i blush when im around him."
did you ask her why she was avoiding you?

[Gegogi]

Originally Posted by

hzg0st

Mabe u od'd OD had BO...I guess you learned your lesson...Mabe the 16 year old girl was Horny and shy

BECAUSE of the pheromones. N thts y she mooved away.

Tell me sumthin Y didnt you just go to a bar or

skool--lots of diffrent ppl there---Y did you choose to wear them in frunt of YOUR FAMILY and old people I kno I

dont want a 80 year old woman humpin my leg, or my mum......16 year old girl yes


Please use real English

so we can read it without trying to translate the lingo. The majority here don't speak it."

That's

not too bad. Maybe he texts his boys on a Sidekick a lot! Although his English quality was distracting--you may have

to think a couple seconds extra--at least I knew what he was writing about. I've read "streams of consciousness"

posts here (e.g., a 500 word sentence with no punctuation or caps) and hadn't a clue what they were attempting to

impart. I suspect text messaging and IM may be to blame for this style of writing. I've received papers from

students with "4" in place of "for" and "U" in place of "you"... :think:

[Bkflip]

Thats interesting because I just

saw something on the news about the usage of words like lmao,lmfao,lmfao,lm-mfao,lol,rotflmao,jk,brb,bbl,jfk,and

a/s/l well not actualy WORDS nut contractions of them/Apparently kids are using thows words in term papers and

essays and some people want aol to stop aim messages:rasp:....
:goodpost:

[Gegogi]

Technically, IMAO is an acronym,

not a contraction. Don't and wouldn't are examples of contractions. LOL is in my American Heritage

Dictionary (©2004), but the other acronyms you've listed are not. Funny, BJ an extremely common and oft used

acronym but is only defined as Bachelor of Journalism. And this is in a dictionary that defines app as an

abbreviation of computer application. :type:

[Visionary7903]

"Everything was going

without a hitch until I decided to dab two small drops of
AE/M on each side of my neck to see the reactions."



I mean this just shows that Androstenone in ANY significant quantities can have negative effects, and not just

'OD' levels. I mean a normal quantity of AE/m is like 3-5 drops and this guy clearly had more than one person

negatively affected. I mean if the guy ODed on Anone because he was young and producing too much None why werent

there negative responses from the family of Alphas?

[Sir Louis]

"Everything was going without a hitch until I decided to dab two small drops of
AE/M on

each side of my neck to see the reactions."

I mean this just shows that Androstenone in ANY significant

quantities can have negative effects, and not just 'OD' levels. I mean a normal quantity of AE/m is like 3-5 drops

and this guy clearly had more than one person negatively affected. I mean if the guy ODed on Anone because he was

young and producing too much None why werent there negative responses from the family of Alphas?
The two

drops were roughly the size of a ballpoint pen head, spread around the sides of my neck. I didn't use a cover

scent, as A/E contains 'clean' -none and a pleasant masculine fragrance. Remember that A/E contains -nol and

-rone, which Kohl has observed produces a positive male presence when used together. I have used none-only products,

such as NPA and PI/M, over the years and consistently observed this repellant and passive-aggressive behavior in

beta males and females, and submissive and sexual responses in alphas. I wasn't surprised when it happened in this

situation. Estrogen and testosterone levels obviously are a culprit here.

[esk6969]

I'd have to

totally disagree here, and reading what you wrote, I'd have to ask you if you ever took it yourself.
.


To answer your question, yes, I have taken it (vicodin) myself, several times, also following dental appointments.

Each time, it made me feel "loopy", dizzy, nauseous from the dizziness, to the point where I didn't want to stand

or walk, and I usually used it as an aid to sleep, to get past the bad drug effects, which themselves were to get me

past the pain effects. I can assure you, the LAST thing I felt on vicodin was :wub: . More like :sick: :sick:

:sick: . Remember, everyone reacts in different ways. And each time, these were one-pill dosages. Recall that the

subject in the original post had had 3 of them.

[Sir Louis]

To answer your

question, yes, I have taken it (vicodin) myself, several times, also following dental appointments. Each time, it

made me feel "loopy", dizzy, nauseous from the dizziness, to the point where I didn't want to stand or walk, and I

usually used it as an aid to sleep, to get past the bad drug effects, which themselves were to get me past the pain

effects. I can assure you, the LAST thing I felt on vicodin was :wub: . More like :sick: :sick: :sick: .

Remember, everyone reacts in different ways. And each time, these were one-pill dosages. Recall that the subject

in the original post had had 3 of them.
Sounds like a textbook allergic reaction to codeine (which

hydrocodone is derived from), which isn't uncommon; your dentist should have asked you if you had previously

taken it or if you were allergic to opioid drugs. Someone who isn't allergic could take four of them on an empty

stomach and experience only mild nausea.

[kappakai]

I've dabbled in recreational

useage of vicodins. 3 would be a lot for a 16 yr. old girl to handle, ESPECIALLY if she is not a recreational user.

One or two, she would probably feel lovey-dovey. Going on 3 would probably make her nauseous and dizzy. I know when

I get on the higher side of dosages, my ears get very sensitive, such that loud noises bother me a lot as well as

bright lighting. It's possible she just wanted to sit it out and relax on her own, rather than interact with

anyone, including yourself. Opioids can produce a general sense of well-being leading to sociability, but too much

can have the opposite effect, which is what I imagine the 3 did to her.

[Sir Louis]

I've dabbled

in recreational useage of vicodins. 3 would be a lot for a 16 yr. old girl to handle, ESPECIALLY if she is not a

recreational user. One or two, she would probably feel lovey-dovey. Going on 3 would probably make her nauseous and

dizzy. I know when I get on the higher side of dosages, my ears get very sensitive, such that loud noises bother me

a lot as well as bright lighting. It's possible she just wanted to sit it out and relax on her own, rather than

interact with anyone, including yourself. Opioids can produce a general sense of well-being leading to sociability,

but too much can have the opposite effect, which is what I imagine the 3 did to her.
Well, she had a

cancerous tumor removed from her ankle during the year and is in pain when she isn't popping them. Obviously, being

in pain and taking three of them or more every 24 hours affected her mood; she had that solemn, deadpan look on her

face that acompanies opioid tolerance.

It is a safe bet on that regime she would be very irritable if she

went 12 hours without one and withdrawal set in.