"CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

[oscar]

To all the Mad Scientists,

Like many of you I\'m eagerly awaiting the arrival of my \"Pheromone Chemistry Set\". I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread where aspiring chemists can post their formulas and/or ask the experts for recipe suggestions for a specific need, or to mimic existing products.

I want to create an additive with the three phero punch of Alter Ego, but SCENTLESS, so it can be mixed with a cologne. As no such product exists, this seems like an appropriate first experiment.

Looks like
4 parts A-None,
3 parts A-Nol,
2 parts A-Rone will mimic the phero content of AE.

Rookies should realize that this won\'t BE Alter Ego, but just a mix that imitates its phero ingredients\' ratios. One could then add a carrier oil (such as jojoba),or Ethanol, cologne, or whatever, based on desired outcome.

You can mix by drops, milliliters, drams, teaspoons, ounces, or bottles, depending upon how much product you\'re willing to risk. I tend to be conservative, and always start with drops.
Haven\'t figured how much cologne to use yet. Any suggestions?

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[CJ01]

Wilde one I have the feeling that this combo will be VERY smelly indeed! -Too much stinky -none I reckon.

How about this:

1 part - none
3-4 parts - nol
2-3 parts - rone
That is if the -rone is scentless like the -nol. And you know that the -rone enhances the effect of the other two, so if you do need more -none you still got the effectiveness of more -none but without the smelly side-effects. Am I making sense here?

CJ

[oscar]

CJ,

To my knowledge, there\'s only one person on this board (and perhaps in the world) who thinks that Alter Ego smells bad. I\'ll not mention her name, CJ. images/icons/wink.gif

I\'ve got P10, and considering its heavy A-None content, I don\'t think it\'s nearly as stinky as PI or NPA, which don\'t contain as much A-None. That\'s the beauty of Stone Labs products. So based on the theory that I\'ll be working with better smelling stuff, I don\'t see why this won\'t be a good additive.

Considering also that I think that NPA, as stinky as it is, actually enhances the scent of some colognes,(APC and Eau D\'Issey being the two I\'ve tried), this recipe sounds good in spite of, or even because of, a potential A-None stink effect.

Of course I\'ll be trying this recipe out in VERY small quantities, and if it stinks too badly, I\'ll lean toward the ratios that you suggest. Your formula, by the way, is somewhat like women\'s P10 - 5Nol, 3None, 1Rone, 1Cops. So, especially from a woman\'s point of view, your suggestions make PERFECT sense!
Thanks for your input. images/icons/laugh.gif

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My suggestion for a formula would be probably as follows for the chemsitry kits, i will probably have some detractors here but here goes.

3 parts none
3 parts nol
4 parts rone

this in my opinion just mine alone is that rone has some sort of additional affect which hasnt been explored to much. It seems to be an intimate responses

none = alpha male
nol = talkative response friend giggles openess etc
rone = ? intimate and trustworthy capable of getting close to real close. (bonding phero)

just my suggestion but i seem to get that feedback from alter ego which is probably why some of us report real strong hits from some of the opposite sex and other women arent responsive above the normal response to none and nol.

As far as the formula goes well its a balanced mix and the rone is the boosting effect.

So what does everyone think ?? jambat CJ tallcoolone BRUCE importantly whats your view on this one.

[oscar]

Donaldduck,

Regarding Androsterone, Stone Labs claims to have spent two years researching the effects of Androsterone used in conjunction with Androstenone and Androstenol.
In P10 they use A-Rone in a quantity that amounts to 1/10, or 10% of the product\'s overall phero content.
In AE they use an amount that equals 2/9, or 22% of the total phero count.

If adding more of this less expensive ingredient would serve to enhance the effects of the far more expensive components, then they surely would have added more. Don\'t you think? images/icons/wink.gif

Your recipe sounds interesting, but you\'re talking about a 40% A-Rone content! That seems excessive, possibly even wasteful given Stone\'s research. I\'m going to be spreading my A-Rone around quite a bit, punching up a number of my phero goodies. So I\'ll probably draw the line at 25% A-Rone to total phero content, at least for now. But far be it from me to discourage ANY sort of experimentation. The whole concept of the kits is, after all, directed toward the \"Mad Scientist\" in us all!

Good Luck,
Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilde Oscar:
To my knowledge, there\'s only one person on this board (and perhaps in the world) who thinks that Alter Ego smells bad. I\'ll not mention her name, CJ. images/icons/wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmm...well my mom doesn\'t like the smell and she can\'t really explain why, but she acts uneasy about it. my sis doesn\'t like it much either, I kinda like it though

[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: deepblue ]

[oscar]

deepblue,

Your Mom and your sister are people who actually (although subconsciously) \"recognize\" you by your natural phero signature. No one is quite so attuned to your phero aura as your Mom, and female siblings are a safe bet to be very close behind.

The Pheromones in AE short-circuit that identification process. It\'s probably not the smell, but the hyperthalmic confusion (which the smell represents) that they don\'t like. But the scent is what they\'re conscious of, so IT gets the blame.

I replied to a similar post to yours some months ago. \"Scents and Products....What Works?\" Aug 24, 2001. I did a better job then. I cried as I wrote it. images/icons/crazy.gif

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[oscar]

Yo!

Getting back to the business at hand. I found something that might be a valuable addition to some phero kit recipes. It\'s Vegetable Glycerine. It\'s quite thick, at least twice as viscous as AE, clear as water, and totally scentless.

From the label-
\"Vegetable Glycerine has a rich oily texture, but is water soluble. Because it is derived entirely from vegetable oil, it is hypoallergenic and safe for all cosmetic purposes. NOW brand Vegetable Glycerine is pure enough to be taken internally. Guaranteed 100% pure. No sugar, salt, preservatives, chemical additives, solvents, or fillers used. 100% Natural.
Suggested usage- Apply to the skin for cosmetic and other purposes.\"

A 4oz. bottle was $2.49, and a 16oz. was $6.49. Compared to Jojoba Oil this stuff is an incredible bargain!

As I\'ve not seen Di-Propylene Glycol anywhere, this looks like a good substitute.
So an un-scented AE imitation in an oil based format for slow release is now on my agenda.

Does anyone know of any good reasons NOT to use this stuff? Like shelf life, breakdown, etc.? I did taste it, and there\'s a slight sweetness to it. Hope it won\'t attract BEES!

I\'m off to find some good Ethanol. Pennsylvania liquor stores stopped selling it. So I\'m headed for Delaware, or maybe Jersey. Are there other brands besides Pharmco and Everclear?

Oscar images/icons/wink.gif

[CJ01]

Yo the only way I can think of getting an AE-like product that is scentless is using AFA and adding some - rone to it! Course it would be alc not oil based like AE.

What´ya think of that idea?
CJ images/icons/smile.gif

[Whitehall]

The glycerine is a GRS (generally recognized as safe per FDA) material if I remember correctly and would be fine in contact with your skin. I would question how well it will mix with with the pheromones that are supplied in an alcohol base with the kits but maybe that will be OK.

For other compunds like this, I recommend checking out the field of compounding pharmacy. These are the people who can make up prescriptions the old-fashioned way, by hand, to a doctor\'s specific orders. I found a place in Canada that would sell me all the non-prescription ingredients at reasonable prices including glycols. There are also websites that cover all the basic techniques and procedures for mixing and compounding. Do a search via Google.

For a long lasting pheromone product, I suggest we mix our pheromone mixture into a molten heavier glycol or cocoa butter so that it becomes a solid as it cools. Limit max temp to about 120 deg F using a water bath to limit evaporation. One could then cast it into small, tightly covered tins then apply a solid dab like a rose attar. It would melt just above body temperature.

[oscar]

CJ,

I reckon that if I\'m using Stone Labs\' stuff, the resulting mix WILL be as scentless as their AFA. But then, they make AE too. images/icons/crazy.gif

AFA and AE have the same amount of A-None per bottle, yet you think AFA is scentless and AE stinks! Maybe it\'s the scent of one of the E-Oils in AE that you find objectionable. Maybe it\'s the A-Rone!

Check out my \"Vegetable Glycerine\" post above. Looks like I WILL be able to pull off an oil based, scentless AE, assuming things mix well.

Whitehall,

The glycol/cocoa butter suspension concept is a great idea! Pheromone lip balm and moustache wax immediately came to mind. Better get a patent on this idea. It sounds marketable as hell!

Donaldduck,

The only good Rone info I\'ve gotten was that statement saying essentially that A-Rone when used in specific proportions in combination with A-None and A-Nol increased perception of attraction by 17%(paraphrased). That\'s from an e-mail I got from Stone that you\'ve probably seen me post before.

Stone is VERY forthcoming about lots of good info. If you want to contact them do a search for Stone Independent Research. If you don\'t come up with two websites, let me know and I\'ll happily find their web addresses and e-mail or private message them to you. (These are competitive sites so I won\'t list them here.)

Today has been EXTREMELY fruitful in that a. I found Everclear grain alcohol (95%Alc./190 Proof) at the first liquor store I found in Delaware, and b. My friendly mailman brought my KIT! images/icons/laugh.gif Oh YES! images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/laugh.gif images/icons/wink.gif images/icons/laugh.gif

So it\'s off to the lab!! images/icons/smile.gif
Igor, Hold my calls!
Oscar images/icons/cool.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilde Oscar:
Your Mom and your sister are people who actually (although subconsciously) \"recognize\" you by your natural phero signature. No one is quite so attuned to your phero aura as your Mom, and female siblings are a safe bet to be very close behind.

The Pheromones in AE short-circuit that identification process. It\'s probably not the smell, but the hyperthalmic confusion (which the smell represents) that they don\'t like. But the scent is what they\'re conscious of, so IT gets the blame.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol Oscar, thats basically what my mom said to me yesterday. she said how she figured out why she didn\'t like the AE and that it was because it wasn\'t \"my scent.\" she actually commented that she likes my normal scent and I assume that goes along w/ motherly instincts and such. I never really noticed I had a scent, but I guess I\'d be oblivious to it. anyway...I just thought it was interesting how you nailed this on the head

[**DONOTDELETE**]

btw, do you think if I were to use something scentless like AFA that she would still notice something?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Back to the rone oscar where there any other effects noted with rone, has anyone tried rone just by itself as a stand alone does it have any effect.

Is there any other publically available info on stones research into rone. ??
Just after some info on the stuff any help guys ok so if we draw the rone line at 25% that might work then and also it makes sense to use its boost effects and its cheaper to so theres good business scences

[oscar]

deepblue,

Thanks! Makes me feel intelligent, or intuitive , or something.
This situation practically BEGS for a bit of experimentation.

Let\'s say you get some new cologne, something you\'ve never worn (one of those 1ml sample tubes should be plenty).
Get totally clean of pheros, freshly bathed with no residual pheros on clothes.
Wear ONLY the new cologne to Mom\'s. Ask her if she likes it. (Hopefully she will).
Next time around wear the same new cologne with AFA . See if the reaction differs.

I\'d be curious to hear the results. images/icons/wink.gif
I\'m betting the AFA will cause the same reaction as the AE. Any takers?

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah keep us updated it will be useful with the kits to add pheros to our favourite colonges etc, actually no one will ever know we have pheros on and we can change our fragrences to keep people guessing. Thats an interesting idea actually. I still prefer AE though.

[oscar]

Meanwhile, back at the laboratory.......

First of all, the pheros in the kit are certainly NOT stink-free!
The A-None is about half as stinky as PI or NPA. But that\'s not too bad considering it\'s twice as strong.
The A-Nol has a sweet, yet slightly stinky aroma to it, definitely the easiest on the nose of the three.
The A-Rone has nearly the same degree of aroma as the A-None, but different. I\'ve seen its scent described as \"camphor-like\" elsewhere. I\'ll add mint, or perhaps URINAL MINT to the camphor description.
I don\'t think whipping up an AFA formula with these components will yield a result as scentless as the real thing.

Additive Experiment #1 WAS a success however.

I took 4 drops None, 3 drops Nol, 2 drops Rone,(AE\'s phero proportions) and added 45 drops of Eau D\'Issey. That\'s 5 to 1.
The resulting mix was not unlike my Issey mixes with P10 and NPA. The pheros complemented, and even enhanced the fragrance of the cologne in all cases.
One thing I noticed, the scent of the A-Rone seemed to be especially pronounced and long lasting, just slightly to the detriment of the total effect.
Next time I\'ll back the Rone down a bit to the three in an 8 None, 6 Nol, 3 Rone mix.
And if that doesn\'t flush, I\'ll try cutting it in half at 4 None, 3 Nol, 1 Rone.
(I\'m using drops so tweaking ratios sometimes means making larger batches. It\'s hard to deliver half a drop!)

Also tried to make a scentless AE.
Same 4 drops None, 3 drops Nol, and 2 drops Rone. Added vegetable glycerine, thinned slightly with the mixing alcohol blend from kit. After adding 9 drops of VG mix, very stinky. After 18 somewhat stinky. Ended up adding 45 drops (same amount as cologne) before reaching satisfactory, NEAR scentless level. Decidedly NOT a failure. Just not what I\'d term a resounding success. Still need to re-check for any separating of ingredients.

Next I\'m going to mix 6 drops None, 3 drops Nol, and 1 drop Rone. P10\'s formula for men. I\'m anxious to see (smell) how the two compare in a side by side sniff test. I mean I\'m REALLY ANXIOUS! images/icons/crazy.gif

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[Whitehall]

Yo\' Mama knew your scent from birth - she could have picked out her baby in the hospital nursery by nose, sight unseen. This is established scientific fact.

Now, the proposed experiment of cologne vs (cologne + exogenous pheromones) will be very interesting - I predict that pheromones are part of the unique scent of her offspring and that she will not complain about just cologne but will take exception to the (cologne + pheromone) combination.

BTW, thanks for the compliments on the solid pheromone idea but I borrowed from some \"solid\" perfumes I saw at the local health food store.

I did just realize that cocoa butter has a scent of its own - some people associate it with suntan lotion, some with chocolate, others with Preparation H. So it\'s not neutral. Another issue might be miscibility - the oil/water mixing issue again. An added surfactant might be an enhancement to aid blending.

[oscar]

Equipment Tips.

The kit comes with ONE syringe. There\'s an alcohol mix bottle with an eyedropper-type lid which works, and a smaller, empty bottle with an eyedropper-type lid that sucks. The pheros are in open mouth bottles. Period. If this is the only equipment you have, it\'ll be a bitch to avoid cross-contamination of the products!

Be prepared. If you plan to use the syringe, go out and buy a few more syringes. You\'re not going to want to dip an A-None soaked syringe into your A-Rone. And washing and drying it constantly will get old fast.
I had 4 eyedroppers and I\'m planning to get a few more so I\'ll have one dedicated dropper per ingredient. (3 Pheros, Alcohol, cologne, glycerine, etc.)

There\'s nothing worse than setting out to do a job and finding you lack the proper tools!

One other thing. The Phero bottles are really tiny and quite spillable, especially if you\'re using a syringe. I took one of those foam rubber beer can insulators, put a full un-opened can in it, inverted it and stuck the phero bottle in the 1/2 inch hole in the bottom. This makes it very stable and easy to work with.

Question-About how many drops are in a milliliter?

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oscar --

There\'s 20 drops in a milliliter

1 drop = .05 ml

Of course, drop size can vary, so this is approximate.

[oscar]

Scientist,

Thanks! images/icons/smile.gif

I have another question. I was just advising MLS on another thread on making an \"Edge-like\" spray. If you were using 95% Grain Alcohol, you WOULD want to cut it with water, right? I had no idea of what ratio to use. Who knows the answer?

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[oscar]

Kit Owners,

How would you describe and rate the smells of the pheros in the kit?
CAN you smell all of them?
How do the scents compare to other phero products you\'ve had experience with?
How do combinations of the pheros smell to you?
Has the kit met or exceeded your expectations, or not?

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[jose]

MAN! I just smelled all three one at a time, I\'m getting a buzz like you won\'t believe. images/icons/shocked.gif Like I\'m getting high, this stuff is potent!!!! images/icons/shocked.gif
ANDROSTENONE smells more stronger than Mr.Pheromone 4X concentrate but basically the same thing. The others are more light and you can\'t hardly smell it, if you really take a sniff.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[oscar]

jose,

The A-None IS intense. Definitely capable of giving one a buzz! It\'s five times more concentrated than MRP-4x which I also have. But it doesn\'t smell five times as intense. Maybe the oil etc. in the MRP act as catalysts to help amplify its .02% A-None content.

It\'s said that some people can smell A-Rone, others don\'t. I can smell it BIG TIME! To me its scent is as intense as the A-None\'s, but way different. A shrill camphor-mint combination is as best as I can describe it.
And the aroma tends to dominate the scent of some mixes

The A-Nol is subtle by comparison, smelling slightly musky, but sweet as well.

I\'ve had some minor disappointments with a couple of mixes I\'ve tried, but I now believe that this was due to my not adding enough inert ingredients. This stuff IS more than twice as concentrated as NPA and for some reason that sort of slipped my mind.

I\'ll try to fix the problems before I start singing the blues! images/icons/wink.gif

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[oscar]

P10 Experiment.

Theorizing that Stone Labs makes P10 using the same ingredients that are in the kit, I set out to test the kit stuff against the real thing. I combined 12 drops of A-None, 6 drops of A-Nol, and 2 drops of A-Rone. P10 is 6N, 3L, 1R. Same proportions.

Took 1 drop of this kit mix and put it on the back of one hand, and applied one drop of P10 concentrate on the other.

The kit mix was far smellier than the real P10. The strange thing was, it appeared to be that the scent which I recognized as the A-Rone was predominant. There was a bit of A-None\'s signature stink there, but hardly any more pronounced than the A-None aroma of the genuine P10.

The result was similar to that of the AE-formula-based additive, and the scentless AE oil-based product that I mixed previously. The A-Rone simply took over the scents in every case. I\'m almost ready to believe that Stone mistakenly put their 2mg/ml A-Rone stuff in my little bottle instead of the 1mg/ml formula that should be in there.

Even if this ISN\'T the case, I\'ll be cutting the A-Rone proportions in any future recipes in HALF just because of the smell.

Does anyone else who has the kits notice this? Or is it just ME? images/icons/crazy.gif

Oscar

[oscar]

Yo!

Just stumbled across a few interesting sites worth checking out for recipe ingredients. www.hodgepodgegifts.com (\"http://www.hodgepodgegifts.com\") has wholesale prices on the best selection of fragrances I\'ve seen. They even have pumpkin pie! www.ScentItYourself.com (\"http://www.ScentItYourself.com\") also has a great variety, including what are evidently knock-offs of popular colognes, perfumes etc. Also books on making perfume. www.Wellingtonfragrance.com (\"http://www.Wellingtonfragrance.com\") is also full of good stuff including Di-Propylene Glycol.

I found these sites while trying to research a great E-oil by Kuumba called \"Pikaki Lei\". Wonderful scent! Thinking about adding it to some of my VG based AE knock-off.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[oscar]

Geez! I\'m the only one posting anything here. images/icons/crazy.gif

Found a couple more interesting sources for goods and information relevent to the phero kit-chen.
www.parfumsraffy.com (\"http://www.parfumsraffy.com\") has a load of good stuff about scent making. A great reference source. Prices on supplies appear a bit high though.
www.fragrancesupplies.com (\"http://www.fragrancesupplies.com\") has some recipes, as well as some things I haven\'t found elsewhere, including beeswax pearls for making lip balm etc., as well as solid glycerine and cocoa butter. Also surfactant.

In some recipes distilled water is combined with alcohol in 8 to 1 ratios. (To answer an earlier question.) The fragrance oils are dissolved in the alcohol first, and then the water is added.

Oscar images/icons/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey how is the forum club reinvention coming along CJ thats been pretty quite actually.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oscar, you\'re not the only one posting.

I went to visit several of the sites, but shopping for scents on the net is a bit challenging.

I\'d like something very sandalwoody to replace the original Perry Ellis I was wearing (can\'t find it any more.) But given a list of ingredient names doesn\'t help much. Does anyone have some basic recipes or descriptions of recipes and what they smell like?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Some other sites that may be of interest to people. No specific recommendations for their services, just that I find them thought-provoking:

1) www.4perfumeinfo.com (\"http://www.4perfumeinfo.com\") - good links to recipe books, fragrance houses, perfume design, and even buying some colognes, eg. Perry Ellis (Scientist!). Each cologne is listed too, with it\'s top, middle and base notes - have to be happy with that!

2) www.basenotes.com (\"http://www.basenotes.com\") - still a good one; often updated, and some great interviews and theory links, like what is REALLY in some of the stuff we put on our faces!

3) www.frangrance-editions.com (\"http://www.frangrance-editions.com\") - good place to visit to get a grip on what are the \'classical\' descriptions of fragrances and their origins. Plus it\'s Australian. (Yay!)

Not so much on pheromones, but good sites for cologne classification and designer thoughts.

Enuf said. images/icons/smile.gif

[CJ01]

Some cool links W.O.!
I´m gonna include them for the list for the forum files.

BTW those flavoured edible oils sound very interesting! Tried them out yet?

CJ

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Details... Some seem to be missing. OK Scientist the 20 drops is OK with water, but most of the solutions talked about are not water, everyone be aware. The rule works with water, but? The best way to get a mL vol is to take a small test tube (or whatever is handy) and weigh a gram of water in it and mark the level. If you are wondering about the device to weigh things, in general cooking supplies are a good place to start. Tough if you?re American, but you have to deal with the problem that there will never be a ?Fourth and centimeters? quote on Monday night?

Next, Glycerol (aka Glycerin, it is the same stuff no matter where the source) if anybody has ever had an ice creme (misnomer) from Dairy Queen, it is about 30-35% glycerol. The body actually likes the stuff, it is used for the backbone of fat. It is an alcohol (actually there are three alcohols on the molecule, but I am nrrding out) much like antifreeze, but not toxic. The body uses it for all kinds of things. Other alcohols should be readily soluble in it. I have to wonder though, the Pher?s tend to be rather hydrophobic, and would seem to be more suited to oils, but I do admit, what ever works? (Nice run on, eh?)

The next thing bugs me for various reasons, as a chemist (no really, I am a NMR and Fluorimeter guy) Fragrances are a bit of a mystery to me. Aftershaves are approx 20 times less powerful than colognes. So the mixing ratios are subject to large errors. One thing that would be very helpful, would be if everyone was boringly detailed. Hey it is for the good of the bunch, right?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hmm, there a lot more question marks in that post than I typed... Oh well, I guess the world is not ready to accept Linux as an alternative yet. he he he.

[oscar]

There\'s a great chart in the \"Making Perfume\" section of the www.fragrancesupplies.com (\"http://www.fragrancesupplies.com\") site. Click right on the \"Making Perfume\" heading to access the table. It it lays out the various ratios of components in perfume, cologne, eau de cologne, eau de toilette, and aftershave.

Using the chart I made a cologne from some \"Pikaki Lei\" fragrance oil by Kuumba. Presumably the ratios are the same for proper E-oils as well.

I put 20 drops of the Pikaki oil in a bottle large enough to swirl stuff around in. Then slowly added 70 drops of Everclear Grain Alcohol, swirling the whole time. It blended beautifully. I then added 10 drops of distilled water, which caused the mix to cloud, but fortunately it didn\'t separate.

Note-the ratios listed are for use with Fragrance Oils and Essential Oils. If you already have a cologne you\'re planning to mix pheros into, these steps aren\'t necessary.

I\'ve had Pikaki scented soap that was great, but as a cologne strength fragrance it\'s a very feminine scent. The batch I made was for a young lady, and she really likes it. I\'d have to cut it back to aftershave strength, or less to wear it myself.

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Some other ideas about the mixing kits. First watch out with the syringes, they are made of plastic, which behaves a lot like an oil, so the mones will dissolve into the plastic. Another trick is to pull air into the syringe first, so that you can blow out the correct volume instead of having some left in the tip. One other thing to try, if you are really into this sort of thing, is add a couple of units of air, a couple of units of EtOH, a couple more units of air, and then your pheros. That is a trick that GC folks used to do to get more quantitative results. Oh yeah another factoid, a ?Unit? is 1/100 of a mL. I love the ambiguous nature of that name?

Solvents, well I have some tips here as well. To get pure Alcohol the simplest way I know is to goto a hardware store and go through the paint solvents. The EtOH is 95%. Oh please don?t be an idiot and try to drink that stuff, just trust me. Glycerol, is also an alcohol, so if you want to knock the viscosity of the Gly down, cut it with EtOH. As far a the toxic nature of some of these things, I would not worry too much. Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) and fingernail polish remover (Acetone) are much worse for the bod.

Emulsifiers, fun stuff. Actually there are a bunch of food quality emulsifiers that could be used. My concern here is if they go bad, the smell might be icky. The two major emulsifiers I know of that would work are lecithin and silken tofu. Lecithin is taken from soy or eggs, and is basically the stuff membranes are made of. Probs here are that it oxidizes and that can smell like all hell. The Silken Tofu is sterilized soy protein. Things like to eat the protein, but if it was in alcohol it would probably be fine. Needless to say it makes a wonderful emulsifier. Technical notes on this, you need about 0.5-1.5% for it to work in lab systems (oil in water) Hope that is helpful

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It\'d be nice if an androstadienone concentrate were available, so people can create a quadruple-pheromone mix with the chemisty set (nol, none, rone, and dienone)!

Androstadienone is the pheromone contained in Realm for Women, shown to affect the VNO in women. I think a more recent study even found that it affected regions of the brain through MRI scans. I don\'t know why other products have not pursued it. Maybe, Realm has a patent on it\'s use?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh, I got another idea. He, he, he. Vanilla is a pretty neat molecule. It is commonly added to things like sodas, and such things that do not have a natural flavor. The reason is that it fools the nose. The classic experiment is to have say apple and cherry flavors mixed. Most folks will be able to note that there are two separate flavors there. Add vanilla, and it causes the flavors to blend. Usually this happens before the vanilla flavor is noted. Coca-Cola is very concerned that you can?t duplicate their mixes. So, for instance, the Edge seems to have a harsh odor to it, but blend it with aftershave and add a drop of vanilla into the mix somewhere, who knows. Hmm, I seem to be good at run-ons. OK, and the last fun thing to note, vanilla is not soluble in water, so it always comes dissolved in EtOH (Ethanol)

[a.k.a.]

Wow! This place has grown since the last time I was here. And now there’s phero kits!!!
Been lurking for about a week, waiting for someone to post a success story; but I couldn’t wait any longer and just ordered one for myself. Now I will surely go mad. I’ve already got a five year supply of pheros that will probably be wasted on failed experiments and about a dozen dram bottles of mixtures that I can no longer recall.
Doesn’t matter. They all work to some degree or another. In fact, for the past month, I’ve been having great luck with a mixture of just about everything: AE, NPA, PF, APC, PI and some cologne all mixed into a 10ml bottle. Don’t ask me the proportions. I just threw it all in there.
OK. Maybe I’ve already gone mad.
Anyway. Here’s my ideas. (All untested, of course.)
Spiked PF: a little -none and even less -rone to add to whatever’s already in there. (Mostly -nol, I suppose.)
Spiked TE: just a couple drops of -rone to see what happens.
Spiked Jambat formula: couple drops of -rone once again.
Spiked AE: just enough -none and -nol to raise the ratios up to the P10 formula = 6:3:1.

Questions about the SP oils:
Do they mix with alcohol, or do you get that cloudy looking stuff?
How much -nol is already in there?

Thanks in advance, and happy holidays.

[oscar]

a.k.a.,

Welcome Back!
I got the three oils with the kit deal. These suckers are ALREADY cloudy before you even open the bottle. Smells like there\'s a good dose of A-Nol in them as they ALL smell rather musky. Haven\'t tried mixing with them yet.
Those mixes sound good, especially the AE/P10 mutation. I just wonder if AE\'s scent will bear the additional stink. The kit stuff seems to smell more than Stone\'s premixed stuff (like P10 and AFA) even when diluted to product specs.

Walter Mitty,

I\'ve gotten nearly 300 drops (of alcohol) from an eyedropper into a 5 ml. vial, so I\'ll have to assume that the volume of a drop varies greatly due to the viscosity of what you\'re working with, and perhaps even the aperture size of the dropping device. I\'m looking at nearly 60 drops/ml.!
Isn\'t paint solvent wood alcohol? And doesn\'t it stink? I recall learning the hard way that one should not put a rag with paint thinner on it into one\'s pocket, as it can go right through your pants causing a burn-like rash on the leg. Do we really want to use this stuff as a fragrance diluent? Or are we talking about two different things?
I went to great lengths (driving to another state) to get Everclear Grain Alcohol. It\'s virtually scentless and non-toxic (at least when applied topically). images/icons/wink.gif Have you tried the paint solvents? If not, PLEASE BE CAREFUL!
I agree that plastic syringes probably aren\'t the best idea. Those who use them should wash them thoroughly after each use. I\'ve been using only glass eyedroppers, but you can go cross-eyed putting a couple of hundred drops into a vial. Glass syringes would be nice, but I believe junkies cornered the market on these a few decades back! They don\'t make glass syringes anymore, do they? I may try to figure out how to etch glass, and make a graduated eyedropper. I\'m not ready to use a pipette, at least not with this stuff. I\'ve envisioned hiccupping and blowing ten or twenty bucks worth of pheros onto the carpet. I\'m way too frugal (okay, CHEAP) to risk that! images/icons/shocked.gif

truth,

Maybe, just MAYBE, Androstadienone is one of the mystery ingredients in NPA/TE!
Who knows!?! images/icons/crazy.gif

CJ,

Haven\'t tried those edible oils, but I do have some nice, and some naughty ideas hatching as we speak. Gotta check on the toxicity of the pheros first. images/icons/wink.gif

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ah yea, there is Methanol (Sterno, or wood grain alcohol) and that will do bad things to you inside and out. But right next to it is generally Ethanol, or booze, or Everclear. I tend to refer to EtOH as alcohol, cause it is what people can drink, and get a buzz without going blind. The Alcohol will evaporate very fast, within a minute or two. The fact that the pheros are soluble in it is nice cause it leaves them behind and shouldn?t effect the odor.

As far as the measuring problems, I got a couple of one Dram vials (Hey the lab had some lying around) and I found that if you weigh out a gram of water (1 gr = 1 cc = 1 mL) and mark it, you can almost eyeball it for the next mL The vial holds about 3-4 mLs. I noticed that the 2 Dram vials are the ones that AE is shipped in, and it is a 7.5 mL quantity. Pipettes are nice, but you need a bunny rubber or something else to make them work well. For those of you wondering, a bunny rubber is a small bulb like those used for eyedroppers.

You know what, I discovered one other odd thing. AE does have a nice scent but when it is gone the stuff smells a lot like edge, and it is kinda hard on the nose. So, I mixed 1 AE : 3.5 Fahrenheit : 3 drops of Vanilla. We will see what happens a Karoke night tonight.

[oscar]

Walter,

Any drinkable alcohol in Pennsylvania is sold only in state operated stores. Guess that\'s why I\'ve never seen Everclear anywhere else. And recently they\'ve stopped selling it except by permit. Seems some college kid got seriously damaged by it,(I don\'t know to what extent), so now you must special order it with a permit. I didn\'t even bother finding out about the permit criteria because Delaware\'s only about 1/2 hour away, and it\'s still on the shelves there.

You mentioned Karaoke. I often hear people on the forum asking about good places to meet people, and Karaoke joints are among my favorites. If you can sing, great you\'ll get a hand. If you CAN\'T sing, well, you\'ll get a hand anyway for having balls. But there are great social opportunities either way. Plus you can just watch, and applaud the people who sing. Clap especially loudly for attractive girls!
A girl sings a song, and whether she was good or not, you can go up to her and tell her how much you like that song. You can shake her hand. Maybe a hug the next time around. Point is, you\'re making contact, with or without pheros. Add pheros to the equation, and the opportunities are enhanced.
I\'ll admit it, I\'m a Karaoke whore. I know of at least one place to go on any night of the week, and on some nights I know of THREE!
I\'ll go to a place I\'ve never been, and there will be someone there I\'ve seen at another Karaoke joint. There\'s a kinship there. And it\'s easy to meet new people too. It\'s a great phero testing grounds. I don\'t know why I\'ve not mentioned this before, maybe I figured people would think it\'s queer.

Good luck at the Karaoke place. I\'d like to hear about any hits etc.

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well the fun thing about the paint shop is that it is not supposed to be sold to drink. Ah , hell, if people are desperate, Listerine is a helluva fix. But really, you can get high grade EtOH from an Ace Hardware, or whatever is comparable. Just be sure it is labeled Ethanol.

Karaoke, was a bust tonight. Lots of hotties, but my mix was not happening. AE is too weak to mix with after shaves, I am waiting for my NPA. Any tips on mixing? As far as singing, I am actually not that bad. I tend to distort a bit as the night goes on, but I like the song, Mello Saxophone, by the Brian Setzer Orchestra. Fun fun fun. And Yes, Karaoke bars are fun places to meet a lot of people. Some time soon I will cut loose and sing ?Hot Rod Lincoln? Something about car culture.

OK, enough about songs, I am hoping for some insight to mixes of aftershave with NPA, jamBatManuel (bad Tick reference) got any clues? Thanks in advance for the tips.

[oscar]

Walter,

This is where the chart on the www.fragrancesupplies.com (\"http://www.fragrancesupplies.com\") site comes in handy. It gives the fragrance oil/alcohol/water ratios of perfume, cologne, eau de cologne, eau de toilette, and aftershave.

I use mostly colognes or eau de toilette strength products, which have similar fragrance concentrations. Depending upon the intensity of the fragrance, I\'ll go 4,5,or 6 to 1, cologne to NPA. Aftershave carries @1/4 to 1/2 the fragrance that cologne delivers, so you\'ll want to start around 8 to 1 and see if the aftershave still covers the NPA after an hour or so.

You\'ll notice that other guys on the forum will recommend using fragrances in 1 to 1, or 2 to 1, or 7 to 3 ratios. These guys either have the world\'s strongest cologne, or they think that they have to be able to smell the pheros for them to be working, OR they can\'t smell pheros themselves at all, and have no idea how badly they smell after their scented product fades away.

NPA\'s manufacturer\'s instructions call for at least a 4 to 1 ratio, as I recall, and they are the ones who know! Too much is far worse than too little when it comes to pheros.

Try mixing up a 1 or 2 dose batch using drops at 8 to 1. Your nose and the noses of those around you will tell you if it\'s right.

My best Karaoke tunes are \"Born to Be Wild\" Steppenwolf, \"Twist and Shout\" (Beatles\' version), \"Taxi\" by Harry Chapin, and Joe Cocker\'s \"You Are So Beautiful\".
The ladies love my Cocker! images/icons/laugh.gif

Oscar images/icons/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, the info is good, but where is the table on that site? I muddled around and didn?t find much in the way of tables, but some interesting ideas. Now, I could be wrong, but as far as smells go, wouldn?t common soap smells be a great way to go? It gives the impression that you are clean. Sounds reasonable to me. But, maybe the ladies would like to pipe in on that one.

Next up, if I make a concoction, say 8 to 1, with aftershave, you have to put on a bit for the smell to be there. With cologne how much do you put on? I mean this in the sense of not Oding either with odor or pheros. Back to my proposed mix, at eight to one, say that is nine dabs, each dab is 1/9th of a dab of NPA. If you were to apply the stuff straight, would one dab do it (sounds a lot like a Brill crème add) I am sort of confused on that point. Maybe a mix ratio, application, and results database should be made. Oh yeah, I added one drop of vanilla to the 4.5 mL concoction (I must sound like a lunatic) and checked the smell before and after. No vanilla smell, but it did change. The aftershave Fahrenheit is sort of a cinnamon base, candy like. But after the drop, it was less harsh and more smooth. Not much different overall, just the attack was dulled.

OK, about the EtOH, Wa state is like that also. But, as I joked about the Listerine (appox 70-80 proof) I believe it is a law about selling for consumption. I am in Ca and have to goto Nevada to get everclear. But, by going into the hardware store, ethanol is used for thinning certain things, dissolving others, a craft supply in other words. It comes in a metal quart container, is clearly marked with Ethanol in block print. A quick scan of the ingredients and it says 95%. It also has that great skull and crossbones logo indicating you would be an idiot to drink it. But, for recipes, it is cheap and probably the same as everclear, without the testing for purity in the rigorousmanner that is used for stuff to be consumed. Why do I continue this? No reason, I was just wondering if anybody in places where drinkable alcohol is sold from govt. houses knows if there is a supply at the hardware store.

Oh, more news, or notes, from Karoake, fun fun. Bar none, unless the person has had training in singing, they are unsure of themselves coming off stage. Either that, or they are drunk. But, regardless, you compliment them. Honesty is not allowed, people take it really bad if you go, ?yeah it was alright, but you were really searching for that first note.? Or anything to that effect. It is easy to understand, ask yourself if you want to stand up in front of people and sing. After you have done it a couple of times it is really fun. The song I have not had the courage to do is ?One Week? by the Bare Naked Ladies. Man if I could do that, I?d own the joint. This coming from a guy who played the song Anu at open mike, oh well.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, now the Mad Scientist in you all has had time to produce your FrankenPheros, what has happened? The recipies all look fun, but the next part is the mix with scents, and the application. Of course everyone is probably most interested in the results. I am interested in the opinions about dabs vs. sprays. Any news?

[Whitehall]

Funny you had problems scoring Everclear in California. I bought a bottle two weeks ago at my neighborhood liquor shop in San Jose for my home-made absinthe experiments.

[oscar]

Walter,

First, that chart on fragrancesupplies.com can be found by clicking on the category heading \"Making Perfume\" on left side. The pointer doesn\'t turn to a glove indicating that it\'s a link, but it is none the less. You\'ll get a page on the right side entitled \"The Art of Making Perfume\", scroll to bottom and there\'s the chart.

I would think that a \"dose\" of untreated aftershave would be a \"splash\", putting several drops in one hand, rubbing hands together, and applying to face and neck.
So mix it so there ends up being 1/2 to 1 drop in your splash. Or 1/4 to 1/2 drop/splash, if you use 2 splashes. However you apply the scented product, you want to end up with about 1/2 to 1 drop of NPA on your skin, with enough fragrance to cover it.

If you\'re using kit-made concoctions, you\'ll need to up the ratio of the scented product, since everything that you create with the undiluted pheros is 1 mg/ml or .1% . That\'s more than twice as potent as NPA.

My favorite kit mix so far is the modified AE-type additive with L\'eau D\'Issey.
Combine 4 drops A-None, 3 drops A-Nol, and 1 drop A-Rone. (I halved AE\'s A-Rone content due to the intensity of the A-Rone\'s scent).
Add 8 parts Issey (64 drops) to 1 part phero mix (8 drops).
The resulting product smells very much like Issey/NPA (5 to 1). Just a bit LESS Androstenone-y.

I like using an atomizer. You have the convenience of being able to apply scent quickly and easily. The negatives are that you can\'t easily split a spray, putting some here, some there, and the fact that there is some waste, since some of the droplets drop off or deflect away. But you can spray onto your hand and apply like aftershave. On the positive side, you\'re not touching the product in the bottle as you would if dabbing, so contamination is minimized. But you do sacrifice the pin-point control of quantity and location that you get by using dabs.
I tend only to dab the oil based products, preferring to spray the alcohol based ones. Though the atomizers I have work well with both.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[oscar]

Whitehall,

Ah!...La Fee Verte!! You\'ve touched upon a subject near and dear to my heart. It was because Mr. Wilde was an absintheur, that I chose him as my nom de plume on this board. I started an Absinthe and Pheromones thread on the old board, but the majority of the replies were quite negative.
Don\'t want to wander too far off topic here. Perhaps a Private Message would be in order. Check your profile page soon.

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, good info, more stuff to work with. Whitehall, as far as everclear, I am in a College town, and about 50 years ago they had Biker problems. So, there are a bunch of really weird laws around here. But, I know I can get my Everclear from Reno, hmmm.

W.O. how much of your mix do you spray on? As in number of sprays. Which brings me to another question. Where do you all get your atomizers? Which ones are crap, and which are good? I have a bottle of the Edge, but it seems to wuss out on the first spray, it evaporated. Life happened. Are there atomizers that are Golden? Ones that work fine at home and on the way up Everest? This has sort of been a mystery to me as of late. Thanks for the info.

[oscar]

Walter,

I\'ll start with two sprays to chest and abdomen before getting dressed, one more spray on shirt just before arriving wherever, and MAYBE one more as a refresher several hours later, if needed.
At the levels of concentration that I\'m using, I guess I\'ll have the equivalent of 1 to 1 1/4 drops of AE applied, over the course of several hours. I haven\'t actually done the math, but this is what my nose tells me, and I believe its phero detection acuity is pretty keen.

Nice 5ml. pocket Atomizers can be purchased at The Body Shop, a store that sells fragrance oils, soaps, and lotions etc. at many malls. They\'re $6 each.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[a.k.a.]

Got my chem set today (!) and had to try it out.
Like Wilde said, the stuff smells strong. But when you consider it’s twice as potent as PI, it’s not that stinky. (Actually, I kind of like it.)
My first experiment was 8 drops -none (I used the droppers that came with the free oils) + 4 drops -nol + 1 drop -rone + 2 drops jasmine (I used the real stuff, not the diluted or synthetic brands). I put the drops into a 3ml bottle (same exact size as the pheros come in) and filled it nearly to the top with the %50 ethanol mixture. I’d say the proportion was about 1 part pheros to 7 parts ethanol
I applied 4 dabs and got a nice little rush; but I think I slightly overdosed.
Went to the grocery stores and got a couple of stares from way down the aisle and the elderly cashier was overly nice to me (she must have said “sir” five or six times). Stopped at a juice bar, where the girl already knows me, and she seemed very upbeat and talkative (so maybe that’s half a hit). Then I went to a bookstore and girls seemed to look away when I made eye-contact. Bought a magazine, and the male cashier seemed overly nice as well.
Could be that I stunk. I think 2 drops pure jasmine was a bit much. After a while even I got tired of it, and I love jasmine.
Anyway, I’m still happy because these are obviously good quality pheros. (They were working, even if not to my liking.) Now I just need to get the dosage and proportions down.

PS The free oils smell good (straight out of the bottle, haven’t tried them on my skin yet), but, then again, I like that sort of androstenol muskiness that Wilde mentioned. It\'s not your typical citrus or vanila.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks for the details. I?ll be hoping that I can get my stuff together for a decent into the mad scientist laboratory (cackle, cackle, cackle) I also wanted to tell everyone about a cheap way of holding things. Spilling is not tolerable, but something that we used to have in a lab I worked in that was cheap and worked is basically a drilled 2 x 4. It would keep things organized, and it was hard to spill tubes, or vials. It is kind of budget, but it does work nicely. If you are more craftsy, use a nice piece of wood.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Good work everyone keep up the good work.

[oscar]

a.k.a.,

Adding about 10 drops or more of distilled water might help to mellow the Jasmine.

I\'m presuming the Jasmine was an oil. How did it blend with the alcohol mix from the kit? I\'ve been cutting oils with Everclear.

Donaldduck,

\"Good work everyone keep up the good work.\" ?!? images/icons/crazy.gif

This M.O. looks frighteningly familiar. PLEASE don\'t tell me that you\'re ALREADY on a run to hit that 2000th post! PLEASE!! images/icons/frown.gif Say it isn\'t so!

Oscar images/icons/crazy.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Wilde One, I got some Issey in the mail (UPS rather) today. I must concur, it is very nice. I don?t have a chem set in the mail yet, I used my spare cash on NPA and APC. Too many JamBatManual Posts to ignore. But I was wondering about the Issey. I have a 75 mL bottle with a spray top. That top is not coming off with out a bit of doing. I was curious if this is just a new package, or something that the pros have long since dealt with. Next up, you were saying that you would mix your mix (I have it here somewhere!) 5:1. If I were to make up a stock of Jambat I and mix it 5:1, is the concentration of the pheros going to be the same? I guess I am at a loss for converting from the actual chem sets to ghetto chem rules. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

OK, here is the news about going out tonight. I didn?t drink at all, usually I am a beer swiller, but decided to try w/o beer and see what happens. I used: Three dabs of AE, one on the wrist (rubbed them together) one under each cheek. A weenie spray of TE on the chest (I swear that the stuff dries out in the sprayer and it goes limp on ya) A spray on the face, one on the wrists and one on the shirt. Three squirts of Issey (W.O. suggested that) and I was on my merry way. The Bar I goto has smokers outside, and while I don?t smoke, I tend to hang out with them more often than not. I know quite a few of the locals there and it is fun to hang out and talk. I got a couple of head twists while getting a water from the bar. The funniest thing was, I was talking to a buddy who had just finished his PhD (Yea!!!) and he was getting fed drinks right, left and center. But he was always talking hoops with me, his friends would come over and say, still talking hoops, but join in and get into it. I was trying not to giggle. It was really funny. The Gals, I didn?t get to test much, I kept getting shoved into conversations. No comment on the scent, drat. But, the highlight, he, he, he, was I was talking to a gal, eating Pizza, and I have met her a couple of times. Not that she can remember my name, but we frequent the same spots, and so on. Well I am leaving, and I see a friend I have not spoken to in a while. Jabber jabber. This Gal, walks right up, Whats your name? I had taken my glasses, it is raining here. Then she remembers my name, and jabbers on for a bit and takes off. The thing that was weird was, she was drunk, and really sitting all over this guy. I walk out of the place, and boom, my name? I dunno what to make of it, but I?ll probably just put it under the heading of Odd. More news later and thanks all for info.

[oscar]

Walter,

Not wishing to compromise the sprayer on Issey\'s bottle, I\'ve always sprayed what I needed into a glass and stored any excess in a corked apothecary bottle.
If you mixed APC and NPA in a 5 to 1 ratio, you\'d have a slightly higher phero content than a cologne/NPA mix, in that APC contains some Androstenone. The standard Jambat is a very high phero content mix at 7 to 3 . You can smell the NPA within 1 1/2 to 2 hours in my experience. APC as a fragrance is wonderfully aromatic, but fades FAR too quickly, ESPECIALLY at the 7 to 3 ratio. But its numerous success stories can\'t be ignored. Different strokes for different folks! images/icons/wink.gif

DDuck,

Thanks! What a relief. When you\'re actually posting with content, it\'s so much better than when you\'re going for quantity! images/icons/wink.gif

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, I didn?t use your approach. If it does not work, get a bigger hammer. The thing pulled off fine with a vice grip. The metal thing made me think it was a press fit, a light of hand trick. It is a piece of plastic that snaps into place. I dumped a large amount into a flask with a teflon sealed top (perks of working in a lab.) Then, I tried 1:5 with NPC. I know I got the volume correct, cause I borrowed a Pipetman from work. Nice to measure things out accurately. I?ll see what happens tonight. Gonna make a trip back to the BAR and see who is there and what effect it has. Fun, fun.

Oh yeah, I found that washing things with rubbing alcohol (Isopropyl Alcohol, or IPA) to clean is an effective method. One, it is more hydrophobic than ethanol. Two, it smells bad. This is a good thing, because you know when it is gone. Point being, I sprayed one shot of the Edge in a vial, and washed it once with IPA, and there was no more Edge smell. We all know how marvy it smells. . .

[**DONOTDELETE**]

No wilde im a long way off 2000 1500 maybe no im not on a run, just putting in an encouraging word. Although 2000 sounds interesting, ill wait for jambat to hit 1000 first and CJ he he. Im still having interesting experiences wit htis stuff.

[a.k.a.]

Wilde,
Tried your suggestion and will test my new formula today.
The jasmine is an essential oil, but it doesn’t seem oily. It mixes well with distilled water and the ethanol blend.
According to “Aromatherapy for Dummies”, the essential oil is extracted from jasmine flowers with a chemical reagent. It is then often diluted with jojoba or other oils because the pure stuff is so expensive (mine was $18 for 1ml) and the smell is so strong.
Also learned that jasmine is good for your skin, stimulates beta waves in the brain, and has been shown to decrease errors among computer operators by 1/3. Of course, it is also reputed to be a great aphrodisiac. (There used to be an aromatherapy expert in a previous reincarnation of this board who referred to jasmine as the “Primal Instinct of e-oils”.)
Mostly I just love the smell. I’ve tried mixing it with NPA but it didn’t blend well. So far, I like the way it blends with the chem kit pheromones.

[oscar]

Walter,

Did the Issey\'s sprayer go back on the bottle to the point that it\'s as functional, and air-tight as before?

a.k.a.,

So now that you know that the kit\'s Ethanol mix cuts the Jasmine well, you can use some pre-cut Jasmine to mix with NPA. That should improve its mix-ability, considerably.

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[a.k.a.]

Yup. Works great. But now that I’ve cut the jasmine down to acceptable proportions it seems to need something else to round it out. Think I’ll leave that experiment aside for a while.

At least I’ve figured out the right proportions and concentration (for me): 16 -none : 8 -nol : 1 -rone diluted to 10%. Four dabs and I get smiling girls, chummy guys, and lots of attention. Maybe I’ll just get a regular cologne and quit trying to be a perfumist.

Or maybe I’ll try mixing some with skin moisturizer. Or maybe I’ll se how it works with pre-blended e-oils. And I still want to figure out how to spike my existing phero stash. The possibilities are endless. (I love my chem kit.)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The thing works like a charm. Some notes I made are, be careful with the vise-grips. You can easily crush the top. The metal is actually quite far from the sprayers mechanics on my bottle. I don?t know if they change this sort of thing or not. Also, I have a 75 mL bottle, and so I took half of it. I do not think you want to open it up twice, it is a bit looser when you reassemble it. But with 37.5 mLs to play with, I have a lot of time before that happens.

[oscar]

a.k.a.,

Damn! I\'m feeling better about my evaluation of the A-Rone. I thought that maybe I was imagining things. The stuff IS way too strong to use in accepted proportions.
Anyone else think that the A-Rone is stronger than anticipated?
How many kits are out there?

Oscar images/icons/crazy.gif

[oscar]

Walter,

I\'ve got the 125ml bottle and I think Ill let it get down to half or so before I chance messing with it. It was a gift and there\'d be some explaining to do if I screwed up the bottle! The glass method suits my needs for now.

a.k.a.,

It\'s funny how some fragrances change after application. Like APC, it smells totally different 15 minutes after application than it does right out of the bottle.

I had sampled Jasmine several times, with different brands, and couldn\'t see what all the fuss was about. Presumably that\'s because what I was doing was putting a drop on my hand, or arm, sniffing it, and drawing my conclusions from that initial sniff, then moving on to another one.

I now see that it\'s a GREAT fragrance! I put some on the back of my hand and waited about 15 minutes. The stuff changes so radically that it smells almost nothing like it does at first.

Avoid this pitfall. If you\'re shopping fragrances put ONE on each hand tops! Don\'t try to sample a whole rack in one visit. You may find something you LOVE that you thought smelled like shit at first!

Oscar images/icons/wink.gif

[a.k.a.]

Wilde,
Glad the jasmine has grown on you.

It seems to have a pretty complex scent for e-oil. According to “Aromatherapy for Dummies” the best species is grown in Iran. But I haven’t seen that sold anywhere. (I’m using one that’s grown in India. It’s manufactured by Oshadi which also sells a more expensive Egyptian variety.) I am starting to believe that it has significant aphrodisiac qualities. I’ve tried the same chem kit recipe (16:8:1) with jasmine and with cologne (Havoc, from Body Shop). The cologne mixture still works great, but I seem to get more hits with the jasmine. (Could be my mood is better though.)

As far as the androsterone goes. Now that you’ve confirmed it, I’m convinced that it can be a double-edged pheromone. Just the right amount can enhance the effect of the -none; making for some strong hits. But too much seems to make strangers feel a little up-tight around me.

Before the kits came along, I used combos of AE with TE, PI, or APC to get the right effect. But it was hit or miss. (One day I had girls following me around the mall, the next I couldn’t even make eye-contact. ) Now I feel like I’ve got it under control. (Three cheers for Stone Labs.)

[oscar]

Scientist,

I noticed on page two of this thread that you were looking for a substitute for a now unavailable Perry Ellis fragrance.

sean and CCbythesea have been singing the praises of www.thefragranceshop.com (\"http://www.thefragranceshop.com\") , and on this site you\'ll find their \"oil of PERRY ELLIS\" perfume oil. It\'s under men\'s designer fragrances, and you can get a sample cheap!($3.50/ea. 3 sample minimum)

Walter,

Even the oils, which don\'t contain the nose- confounding alcohol, change drastically in some instances and need time to \"set up\" as you so aptly put it.

I\'ve also noticed that colognes in a partially filled bottle will sometimes improve with age, and smell far better than a fresh bottle of the same fragrance. This contradicts the logic that they go bad in time, unless you consider that they may reach a point of optimum \"ripeness\" before beginning to spoil, as many fruits do.

a.k.a.,

Kuumba, the outfit that makes the Pikaki Lei oil that I\'m crazy about, puts out a Tunisian Jasmine that\'s next on my list. That\'s the stuff that turned my opinion on Jasmine. My problem is that I\'ve got a few other planes on the tarmac before I get around to this one. Seems I really need to be in the mood to mix, to actually get down to it. Kind of like trimming the beard, you\'ve just got to be in the right frame of mind.

You said \"double-edged\" regarding the A-Rone. I STILL suspect it may be double-strength as well! Stone does sell 2mg/ml concentrations of the None, Nol, and Rone, and I would not be at all surprised if that were the concentration of the Rone in the kit. I can\'t imagine AE\'s Rone content NOT stinking to high heaven if this were the stuff they used at the proportions given!

The plus side is that the Rone will last me a LONG TIME, when I HAD thought that it would be the first thing I would run out of.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

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Wilde One, I understand about the bottle. I got the little 5 mL sprayers from the body shop, and those things are pretty neat. The sprayer top comes right off. This could cause a mess, but it also means you can clean them if they clog. Also, since no one goes into my smelly cabinet (All the experiments and raw materials for my phero exps are here) I do not worry about the looks of the Issey bottle. Like I said earlier, if you are careful, the sprayer comes off pretty easily. But, you quite obviously have a method that works. If it works, do not fix it.

You know, scents really do age. I have noticed this also. I have a lot of theories on this, but I imagine that two things are mainly responsible. One the initial blast of the smell is intense. No time to adsorb into the skin, has not been rubbed around, and so on. This means your nose turns down the volume, and you miss the lighter things. Two, most of the sprayables are alcohol based. It evaporated quickly, sprays well. . . But, alcohol also has a smell (yes it does) and even in the gas phase, the aromas will probably have a different affinity for EtOH + Air, versus Air alone. I can?t comment on time lines, but I am going to think that some mix of the two cases above are probably the case.

On a practical note, even if I am orbiting Pluto on this, aromas take time to set up. Keep this in mind if you are curious about a fragrance.

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Given the fact i cant get in under the ancroynm of donaldduck ive had to re register so im now fly by night. A better name i think, regarding the rone, i think that it could be double strength which could be a good thing for some users here.

[a.k.a.]

At this rate my -rone is going to last longer than I will. But I’ll probably be getting more -none within the next two months.

Todays exeriment is five parts SP oil with one part -none. This should give me a concentrate about 1/3 the strength of PI (with a nicer smell and an unknown quantity of -nol for good measure). I’ll test it out at a salsa club tonight. The objective is to see exactly how much -none I can get away with.

[marv14yag]

If you used .1% of NONE from the kit...a drop on say, the right ear, and you used .1% of NOL on the other ear, what would your reaction be?????? You would be intimidating, JUST as intimidating as when you had full none, however, you\'d also be JUST as easy to be with.....

What I don\'t get, is, how does that compute? How can you be both...I\'m not talking about mixing either, because, when you mix you get less of both...I\'m talking about full strength of both

Bart

[a.k.a.]

Marv (Bart),
I’ve never tried using the chem kit stuff at full strength. But cutting it to 1/6 strength wasn’t that successful. From my tests, it appears that .01 mg/ml -NONE is the maximum effective concentration (for me). (Don\'t know if that\'s because concentration is more important than amount, or because lower concentrations let me put it on more parts of my body. For maximum dispersal.) Guess I could have reported that.
Also the point of mixing with the SP oils was added scent and dilution. I’ve never noticed -NOL reducing the intimidating effects of -NONE. But maybe it does.
I\'d be interested to know if anybody\'s had good experience wearing higher concentrations, or greater amounts, of -NONE by adding more -NOL to the mix.

[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: a.k.a. ]

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It doesnt really have much effect on reducing it but it does get giggles talkative types as well as well as giving off the alpha male type, also rone as we say gets DIHL and also gets intensity.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

bump

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I took a look at some of the oils available at fragranceshop.com, and it certainly looks interesting. The question I have is: would I mix the perfume oils with NPA any differently than I currently do when I mix my EDT spray with NPA? Since the oils are more intense and longer lasting, wouldn\'t I be able to use much less and still cover just as much?

[oscar]

Sympatible,

When using oils, I\'ve always converted them to eau de toilette level fragrances by cutting the oil in ethanol and adding a little distilled water.
If www.fragrancesupplies.com (\"http://www.fragrancesupplies.com\") is still available, there\'s a chart on their site that gives proportions for perfume, cologne, eau de cologne, eau de toilette (edt), and aftershave. Each have different ratios of fragrance oil, alcohol, and water. Eau de toilette is 5-10% fragrance (or essential) oil; 75-80% alcohol; and 15% water.

Once converted to edt level, the scents can be mixed with NPA in the recommended 4:1 or 5:1 ratios to provide a decent sprayable product. Without converting, the scents of both the oil and pheros will be overpowering, since you cannot spread them thinly enough. images/icons/shocked.gif

Oscar images/icons/wink.gif

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Wilde Oscar:
Thanks, that makes sense. I\'m still intrigued by the unadulterated oils, though...

[oscar]

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