Deprenyl

[Icehawk]

"Deprenyl’s chemical name is selegiline hydrochloride, and it is often

referred to as "selegiline" among researchers and physicians. Its chemical

structure closely resembles that of phenethylamine, a natural chemical also known as PEA. PEA is

the active component in chocolate that reputedly causes lovers to be consumed with desire and

has the power to soothe the cravings of premenstrual women. Prevalent throughout

nature in plants and animals, PEA represents the mythical love potion that stimulates the

passions, and deprenyl is its modern-day cousin."

Found some stuff called

Selepryl which is the liquid form of Deprenyl. This like Oxytocin

could have possible uses, though im still looking as to how...:thumbsup:

[bjf]

but PEA is ingested.....will smelling

PEA cause the same reaction in women's brains?

maybe associately...

[bjf]

likely none of

those.....

funny, i have looked into that stuff, so I see where you are coming from. but just smelling

hormones or chemicals is not going to create the same reaction as having them released in your body.

[Icehawk]

Well does smelling chocolate

work??? That should give you an anwser...

[Silver]

Smelling chocolate makes me happy

because usually it means I'm going to EAT said chocolate ^_^

~Silver

[Icehawk]

"Phenylethylamine, or PEA, is a

chemical in roses that helps give them their distinctive scent. And it is PEA that contains an amino acid (the

building blocks of proteins that all living plants and animals contain), which slows the breakdown of

beta-endorphins. And it is these latter chemicals that are the "happy hormones" in our bodies—those chemicals that

make us feel happy, put us in a state of euphoria, or of being in love. So chemically and scientifically speaking,

this is why smelling roses helps us remain happy and promotes feelings of love.

With this PEA chemical in

roses being described as a "mood-altering substance," putting a vase of roses by the bedside has been suggested as a

way to prolong sensual feelings. It’s probably no surprise, too, that PEA is also present in chocolate. So the

practice of a romantic suitor bearing a bouquet of roses and box of chocolates is not only tradition, but has a

scientific basis!"


Anything???

[Icehawk]

"Just like cinnamon and pumpkin seem to be particularly potent for men, it's

chocolate that most often causes women to melt like a truffle when its warm smell reaches their quivering nostrils.

Chocolate contains something called phenylethylamine (PEA). Many scientists believe that PEA causes the brain to

release the same kinds of chemicals that evoke the euphoria we feel when we are in love!"

[bjf]

Get some selepryl and see if it

works?

[Icehawk]

My thoughts exactly! Chocolate

and roses support my theory so experimenting with serotonin, oxytocin or vasopressin makes some sense.:think:

[burgerama1960]

So what you are saying is

that I should slather myself with chocolate and women with eat me up. Off I go to the candy store!

[bjf]

My thoughts exactly!

Chocolate and roses support my theory so experimenting with serotonin, oxytocin or vasopressin makes some

sense.:think:

I've read up on the latter though and it doesn't look promising. I've talked to labs

and mone manufactuers. I may eventually see if I can convert oxytocin into something that will work if it won't

work itself.

[Icehawk]

Well than in the meantime, I'm going to try the long term topical selepryl and

oxytocin application and see if anything happens. But if somebody comes up with a better idea, they better post it

ASAP! :rant:

[bjf]

So you got some oxytocin on your

hands?

[Icehawk]

Yeah, the liquid type syntocinon

spray, 40IU per ml (does anyone know how much IU is???), although the selepryl is

25mg per ml! so comparatively that looks like much more PEA than Oxytocin.

[bjf]

Have you played with it yet? I found

a site that sells an oxytocin metabolite if you want it....

Try giving some of it bacteria to feast on and

test the conversion chemicals.

[Icehawk]

Yeah I've got the site from the

archives, thanks for posting it btw. I've emailed them as to the strength of their 1ml oxy as I've seen it

elsewere for MUCH cheaper but they said they didnt know or such, I just assumed it was the 10IU/ml standard. Anyhow

if you're interested just search online for syntocinon, you'll find a few sites although its rare.
I personaly

havent played with it yet, though will start soon. As for the bacteria, are you refering to my smegma

thread??????????:D

[bjf]

Don't you need a prescription for

syntocinon?

Or did you get it from Canada or are you in Canada?

I am looking forward to hearing about

your experiments. You are quite a hardcore moner!

[DrSmellThis]

http://samvak.tripod.com/lovepathology.html



http://sexuality.about.com/od/

aphrodisiacs/p/chocolate.htm (http://sexuality.about.com/od/aphrodisiacs/p/chocolate.htm)



http://content.dating.indiatimes.com/articlesh

ow/1059372.cms (http://content.dating.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1059372.cms)

[Icehawk]

Yeah, residing in Canuckaland

currently so no problems with that. Ill dive into the research ASAP, and will post any results when I get them. Im

expecting something in the long term and probably only from repeated close contact as these are not pheromones were

talking about here, well except the smegma experiment that I have no clue about...:POKE:

[bjf]

Thanks doc, good links. It is just a

matter of trying to raise the levels of these substances' in targets bodies. I am not sure using the substances

themselves will create such a spike just from smelling them. It is worth investigating though. I just think their

conversions/metabolites may be the key.

[bjf]

Yeah, residing in

Canuckaland currently so no problems with that. Ill dive into the research ASAP, and will post any results when I

get them. Im expecting something in the long term and probably only from repeated close contact as these are not

pheromones were talking about here, well except the smegma experiment that I have no clue

about...:POKE:

Icehawk, I've messed with wierd pheromones that definetly do something, although I

never would have known from my own observations in the field (until I kept testing). So don't get discouraged if

you don't see any results, that does not mean too much.

One good thing to do is just to do repeated blind

sniff tests of the substances and controls, and record your observations on how it makes you feel.

[bjf]

They got the testosterone patch now

:)

Well, maybe the lutenizing hormone response creates an increase in t-levels? I can't remember. Nol

creates a lutenizing hormone response.

[bjf]

It likely would't produce any

effects of a pheromones. There are a number of metabolites of any given substance... We don't even know for sure

that there is one for oxytocin that acts as a pheromone. This is just a metabolite that they are selling for

whatever purposes. I think it was like 100 bucks or something, can't remember. They might not even sell to the

general public.

[DrSmellThis]

I know you can buy a

concentrated cocoa extract that is standardized for PEA content. I never tried it, due to the cost. But I never

tried searching for it on the web. The Crimson Phoenix guy sells it.

[Gegogi]

"PEA is the active

component in chocolate that reputedly causes lovers to be consumed with desire..."

I've heard this

many times. However, it's effects must be extremely minor, at least in my experience. In other words I've never

gotten laid after eating Godiva with my GF. In contrast, a few glasses of wine have always worked wonders when it

comes to amorous activity.

[BassMan]

I know you can

buy a concentrated cocoa extract that is standardized for PEA content. I never tried it, due to the cost. But I

never tried searching for it on the web. The Crimson Phoenix guy sells it.The only thing I can find on the

web for the Crimson Phoenix is a few pheromone scents. Does he have a online catalog/site of the stuff he sells?



-Bass

[tiberius]

Hey IceHawk,
Id be careful

when it comes to messing with the serotonin and some of the other hormones. If you change the levels of hormones

dramatically over a short period of time you or whoever you are experimenting on is going to have some very very

serious mood swings. If you raise the serotonin level of your target some way, sure it will raise their mood and

make them feel good, but as soon as they come down off that extra boost that mood will crash hardcore might even

causing some slight depression. Also by introducing an external source of hormones that is above your body's normal

level your body will start to compensate by producing less of that same hormone naturally which means youll need to

use more for the same effect. When you stop using it your body will be a an unnatrual low of that hormone until your

body starts ramping up production again--this is how a chemical dependence is achieved. I wouldn't want anyone here

developing an addiction to something.

A number of illicit drugs (in the US) cause an increase in the release

of endorphins/mimic the action of endorphins (opiates come to mind) and cause the above mentioned problems with

normal levels being maintained. I wouldn't recommend experimenting with hormone levels. This is an entirely

different thing that working with pheromones...pheromones are meant to be detected and there is not a certain level

your body needs to maintain of phermones in order to keep you feeling normal...thats why there is a special organ

(VNO) for detecting them. If we were meant to be detecting external sources of serotonin our bodies wouldnt be

required to make a certain level of those hormones for maintaining "normality." Those hormones, specifically

serotonin, is one of the hormones that many anti-depressant drugs seek to regulate (thinking of prozac).

[Icehawk]

Yes very good point tiberius, my

point being that once again roses and chocolate contain PEA and they're treasured as romantic items worldwide. I'm

not talking about injecting myself with huge doses of the suff, once again more along the lines of previously

mentioned items, to trigger SOME sort of response, I doubt anything like you mentioned happening, although chocolate

is rather addictive (probably more due to AEA than anything else, which I cant so far get my hands on :) )

[tiberius]

Hehe, Well no matter what you

end up doing, just make sure you post all the goodies about what does and does not happen. I am sure it would make

for an interesting ready anyway. :P

[Icehawk]

Well with this sort of freaky

and unconventional experiment, dont you worry, you'll get all the goodies (or lack there of)

[Icehawk]

Alright a general research

question, I've read that babies that are nursing on their mothers breast trigger oxytocin response in women. Also

the babies themselves relase oxytocin in response. Is that internal release or what??

[bjf]

I used to wonder if the pheromones

from a mother's nipple caused the spike in the baby. Not sure, but my own uneducated suspicion is that it may be

responsible.

[tiberius]

Alright a

general research question, I've read that babies that are nursing on their mothers breast trigger oxytocin response

in women. Also the babies themselves relase oxytocin in response. Is that internal release or what??
Yes

the release of oxytocin in the mothers is an internal release. Its major function in that example is to further

stimulate more milk production by the mother. Think of it as a positive feedback system. Its just like bovine...as

long as a cow is regularly milked she will produce more (calk or no calf), but if you stopping milking her...after a

while she'll dry up.

[bjf]

Yea, but the question is, what causes

the spike in the baby?

[tiberius]

Not certain as to the cause of

that. Ill see if I can find it somewhere for you, but there is always the possibility that it is just the result of

an increase in the mothers oxytocin levels....more than just milk comes out of the breast (anti-bodies, etc) so

maybe that particular hormone is just there as a by product of the mother simply having more in her system.



More oxytocin in blood = more oxytocin in milk = more oxytocin in baby? I dunno might be the cause though.

[bjf]

Good theory. Could be the

case.

Interestingly enough, doesn't the father's oxytocin level's spike when she is in labor too (at which

time she has a spike). He ain't drinking anything.

Would perhaps point to pheromones.

[CptKipling]

or conditioning

[tiberius]

Ok, so after doing some

research I think I know what the actual relationship is. Turns out that oxytocin (in men and women) is what can be

called a "touch" hormone. This is becuase it is released as a result of physical contact. Granted during childbirth

it can help stimulate contractions and after birth it stimulates milk production. If you look at one method

mid-wives use to help along a women who is in a "stalled" labor, they actually apply ice to the women's nipples and

it is the sensation that causes that woman's brain to increase its production of oxytocin which in turn helps

increase contractions (also a reason some doctor's give injections of oxytocin to help promote labor).

Now

oxytocin also has uses that are not directly related to childbirth. Some of these include the natural bonding and

some of what we would consider feelings of love between 2 people. This is becuase yet again of physical contact. The

cause of the "afterglow" feeling a couple experience after sexual intercourse is a result in an increased level of

oxytocin in both partners; however, the ability of oxytocin to do its work its directly related to the level of

estrogen present in that person. This is why females are much more affected by oxytocin levels than men.

Humans

are a very touching species. Infants and children who do not receive enough physical contact often grow up to become

socially retarted and anti-social, because oxytocin (a result of touching) helps foster and promote certain

connections in the brain. Another effect of oxytocin is that it slightly impairs certain mental functions such as

memmory building. This has been hypothesized as a reason that "hugging/kissing" to make up after a fight is

beneficial because it causes both people to somewhat forget the pain they just went through.

Back to what I

said about this early with regard to a positive feedback system, it is. This goes for both breast-feeding and other

forms of contact. The most sensitive areas of the body to touch cause the most oxytocin production (the

genitals/nipples for example). The way this appears to work is that a physical contact stimulates production of

oxytocin. The presence of oxytocin promotes the desire to be touched (socially and/or sexually). This is one reason

many women ( I say women because as aforementioned women are more affected by this hormone than men) who do not have

a lot of physical contact (using sex as an example) tend to not want to have sex; whereas, women who have sex tend

to want to have more sex. Also having sex even if the desire is somewhat lacking (read: libido) has been shown to

actually increase the desire to have sex( read: increasing libido).

The amount that oxytocin affects women also

varies according to the time of the month (this can be said about almost all hormones as well), because the levels

of estrogen and oxytocin are much higher during ovulation than during menstration. This means that when a woman is

ovulating a small touch can stimulate a large response, but during menstration it would take a much larger touch to

even stimulate a smaller response.

Another major point to be considered is that oxytocin can be involved in

triggered responses. This means that after a couple of very physically interactive meetings between the same 2

people then after that the mere sight of that person (female seeing the male and to a lesser extent male seeing

female) causes that person's body to increase oxytocin production prior to any physical contact--this also

increases that person's desire to be touched.

IceHawk, I hope this helps clear up any confusion or doubts

about oxytocin.
As far as I can tell this can be summed up by:

More touching = more oxytocin = more desire to

be touched
In the breast feeding example: oxytocin causes some milk production by mother = baby breast feeding (ie

great touching of the mothers nipple) = an increased production rate of oxytocin = an increased production of breast

milk AND an increased desire to be touched

Also during child birth generally speaking a lot of physical contact

between mother and father happens (holding hands) and this combined with a conditioned response that is obviously

present (read: pregnancy) causes a similar increase in the oxytocin's level in the father.

Another example of

this is a dating analogy: 2 people go on a few dates...
After the first date both are like "ok that was fun"


After another couple of dates (with presumably more physical contact) both are like "ok wow that was fun...he/she

has potential"
After a date that ended in sexual intercourse both tend to be like "I can't stop thinking about my

partner" <- being with the partner has become a conditioned response in which just thinking about the other person

stimulates the good feelings and the oxytocin production that they are associated with. Of course this example isnt

necessairly the same when considering one night stands. Since it takes more than a single instance to develop any

conditioned response.

[bjf]

As for the last thing, orgasims cause

an oxytocin spike, which is why JVK says get your woman off or she will go elsewhere.

But as for the touch

hormone, yea, that's what it is, but we still don't know how that happens.

It could be conditioned because

when a baby is getting the oxytocin response during breast feeding, he or she is in contact with his mothers skin

and also being held/touched. Not everyone was breastfed but most babies were held near their mothers nipple.

Babies who haven't been touched enough in early childhood has problems as adults being touched, perhaps because

they never "learn" the oxytocin touch response.

The actually root cause of the oxytocin touch response may be

an oxytocin response from breathing in pheromones from a mother's nipples, thus developing into a conditioned touch

response because you are being held when the spike occurs as a baby. When the touch response is learned, you then

can developed conditioned visual responses to particular people who hold you/touch you a lot, as was

mentioned.

So basically, we still don't know how the spike occurrs in the baby and whether pheromones and

involved. Uness someone can explain it through nerves and all that stuff and being touched on the skin and how that

relates to hormone production.