Welcome to the Dark Ages

[a.k.a.]

"Many American

youngsters participating in federally funded abstinence-only programs have been taught over the past three years

that abortion can lead to sterility and suicide, that half the gay male teenagers in the United States have tested

positive for the AIDS virus, and that touching a person's genitals "can result in pregnancy," a congressional staff

analysis has found.

Those and other assertions are examples of the "false, misleading, or distorted

information" in the programs' teaching materials, said the analysis, released yesterday, which reviewed the

curricula of more than a dozen projects aimed at preventing teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.

"
...

"Nonpartisan researchers have been unable to document measurable benefits of the abstinence-only

model. Columbia University researchers found that although teenagers who take "virginity pledges" may wait longer to

initiate sexual activity, 88 percent eventually have premarital sex.

Bill Smith, vice president of public

policy at the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States, a comprehensive sex education group

that also receives federal funding, said the Waxman report underscored the need for closer monitoring of what he

called the "shame-based, fear-based, medically inaccurate messages" being disseminated with tax money. He said the

danger of abstinence education lies in the omission of useful medical

information."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26623-2004Dec1.html

[belgareth]

Back when I was in high school

they taught the same kind of crap to us. We didn't believe most of it and it resulted in a sceptical attitude

towards everything they taught. The people who were in school then are some of the ones teaching that trash today.

You'd think they'd learn from their own experience that the truth, no matter ho you feel about it, is the best

tool. I sometimes think government officials lie just for the shear hell of it.

[Surreal]

I agree with belgareth.

The

goverment gears thier material toward the masses. Well, it does make sense. I think there should be a fear factor

but not like this. It really turns the 'smarter' kids agianst the gov. (as in believeal)

[belgareth]

Why should there be a fear

factor? Why not the plain truth?

[a.k.a.]

Back when I was in

high school they taught the same kind of crap to us.

Guess I’m pretty lucky. I grew up in Montana

( which is quite conservative ) and still managed to get a pretty decent sex education.
We saw pictures of

syphilis and gonorrhea ( HIV was still unknown ), learned about the dangers of self induced abortions, learned the

fallacy of some urban myths (e.g.. a Coke douche right after sex will prevent pregnancy), and even got a handout

that illustrated the proper way to use a condom. The dating films were quite dopey, but at least they acknowledged

that sexual desires were a normal part of growing up and emphasized that being responsible is an essential aspect of

adulthood.

It could have been more informative, (e.g.. I didn’t learn about “double dutch” until I was

in my thirties) but at least I didn’t receive any misinformation.

[Felstorm]

Why should

there be a fear factor? Why not the plain truth?
I agree.

One should just accept the fact that kids

are going to fool around. It's far easier.

Sex ed sucks as it is, and now they want to turn it into

"abstinence only" education to make some ideologues feel better. Instead they should be teaching kids, "Hey maybe

mutual masturbation and oral sex is a better route. You won't risk pregnancy this way." But that would be the

logical thing to do. As it is, sex ed has been chiseled away at by abstinence advocates so it's little more than

human anatomy 101. Nothing is ever said about the emotional side of sex education, or how to actually please a

partner. It's useless because it's sterile. You can't really teach a subject if you only cover half of the

material to be learned.

It's not gonna work. Abstinence doesn't work all the time. They had just as much

teen pregnancy back in the conformist 1950's as we do now. Teens get horny and want to fuck just as much as adults

do. And they aren't gonna wait to make the significant financial burden by getting married just to get their 15

minutes of puppylove piggy sex over with.

If you make something forbidden to do, it just makes it more

desirable.

Thing is. Do you want your kids to be as knowledgable about sex as possible? Do you want them to

use condoms, or ask for birth control to protect themselves? Or would you have them sign silly "abstinence

contracts" and then screw around behind your back, get knocked up because they didn't know where to get, and how to

use a rubber or diaphram?

Abstinence should be taught alongside other material. As it is now. It's just that

sex ed teachers are not using the fear of damnation, hellfire, STD's and pregancy, to make kids so hung up and

paranoid about sex that when they get to be adults they'll only screw under the covers with all their clothes on,

the lights off, bag on their head, while mumbling the "Lords prayer" asking for forgiveness for their sins for being

created a horny human being that enjoys sex.

This is more silly "I'm a Christian special interest group and I

want it my way because that's what my religous beliefs are, and it gives me a false sense of security but endangers

you and everyone else around you.".

A Puritan is a person that cannot stand the idea that someone is having

fun without feeling guilty about it.

[belgareth]

Felstorm
Your posts would be a

lot more interesting and easier to agree with if you would leave your dislike for the christians out of it. We've

already got the idea that you don't like them and blame them for all the problems in this country. So, let's stop

bashing them constantly. I'm sure that there are some christians on this forum and they probably don't appreciate

it any more than I do.

[Surreal]

Fear factor?

I guess the

truth should be the fear factor. :)

The truth is a very scary thing. I new of a guy who wanted so badly to loose

his virginity that he quicky sleep with a girl. (he was like 18-19) He got herpes from her. Damn that sux. I guess

that is the fear factor. LMK

-S

[DrSmellThis]

Felstorm
Your posts would be a lot more interesting and easier to agree with if you would leave

your dislike for the christians out of it. We've already got the idea that you don't like them and blame them for

all the problems in this country. So, let's stop bashing them constantly. I'm sure that there are some christians

on this forum and they probably don't appreciate it any more than I do.You are correct it would be easier

for most to agree with without the religion critique. And if people don't hear the message due to their offense, it

would be less interesting to them. We have to respect your rules, as you are a moderator.

On the other hand --

and maybe I'm not familiar enough with Felstrom's posting; but I don't think in this case he was wrong to bring

it up.

Conceptually, you can't separate sexuality from religion and have an accurate cultural/historic view of

either. Felstrom is "preaching the gospel" -- indeed, the "plain truth" -- when he says it's about people imposing

religious morality.

I strongly consider the sex "education" I received through the Catholic religion and

culture to have been child abuse. I don't say this lightly, and don't consider myself the least bit unique

there. Recovery has been a life's work.

Confronting denial brings offense, as human nature dictates.

Unfortunately, religious people might need to get offended, on the way to waking up to the

pervasive and acute destructiveness of fundamentalism, and even religion in general; along with its judgmentalism

and black and white thinking. There is a lot more religion bashing these days, but that's just a natural

consequence of the bashing that religions have brought upon the human spirit (not that good things haven't come

from religion). The rage is justified, and the message behind the rage needs to become part of our collective psyche

for world civilization to move forward.

[DrSmellThis]

Fear factor?



I guess the truth should be the fear factor. :)

The truth is a very scary thing. I new of a guy who wanted so

badly to loose his virginity that he quicky sleep with a girl. (he was like 18-19) He got herpes from her. Damn that

sux. I guess that is the fear factor. LMK

-SThanks for clarifying.

[belgareth]

You are

correct it would be easier for most to agree with without the religion critique. And if people don't hear the

message due to their offense, it would be less interesting to them. We have to respect your rules, as you are a

moderator.

On the other hand -- and maybe I'm not familiar enough with Felstrom's posting; but I don't think

in this case he was wrong to bring it up.


You may remember that a while back there was a thread that

went back and forth about the Jewish and Muslim Faiths. Then there was another one about Muslims specifically. In

both those threads many nasty things were said, feelings were hurt and a lot of animosity generated. In the end, we

closed those threads and nearly banned religious discussion altogether but decided that if it could be kept civil

they would be permited. Felstorm's attacks on religion are right on the line if not over it, in my opinion. If he

or anybody else wishes to discuss religion in a civilized manner, I'll have no problem with it. But blindly

attacking one faith is not going to be allowed.