Body Language

[Friendly1]

Every time this

topic comes up, people ask for references. So here is a thread where we can post references and reviews. I will

only mention titles. You will have to see if you can buy these books or not. I found many of the books by browsing

the \"Sales and Marketing\", \"Self Help\", and \"Relationships\" sections at local book stores. There seems

to be no rhyme or reason to where they are placed.

Body Language by Julius Fast. Not very detailed.

This book is good for people who want to learn more about marking turf than anything else. He spends a lot of the

book talking about personal space and other kinds of space. You can learn about dominating the regions around

you.

How to read a person like a book by Gerald I. Neirenberg and Henrey H. Calero. Extensively

illustrated, this book covers basic gestures, posturing, and how to identify roles within relationships (friends,

lovers, bosses and subordinates, etc.). This book has some useful guidelines for negatioting with other people,

including tips for men on how to read women\'s receptiveness.

Body Language Secrets by Susan

Quilliam. Includes a lot of pointless or goofy illustrations, but it is broken up into a lot of How-To sections

which explain how you can work your way into new groups, new situations, etc. by employing skillful body

language.

Reading People by Jo-Ellen Dimitrius and Mark Mazzarella. Very good introduction to reading

people. She is a Ph.D. with extensive research experience. He is a successful trial attorney. She consults on

jury selection. She is a very detail oriented person and her perspective helps you realize how to look beyond the

usual signs people try to broadcast. It IS possible to lie through body language, but she holds that there are

usually tell-tale signs which contradict the lies.

Body Language Secrets by Don Steele. He is a

retired psychologist of some sort who worked with families and studied body language. This book is not nearly as

good as it is hyped up to be by Steele and his followers. But it is still a good introduction to the body language

of meeting, courting, and seducing people. He gives tips to both men and women. Includes many pictures of Steele

and his wife. Steele has a preachy, amateurish writing style. He claims to have had affairs with dozens of women

many years younger than him. He exudes confidence and is a dominant male. About half this book seems to be devoted

to selling you his other books. But he does go into details on how to send certain signals and provides many lists

and anecdotes on things to do, not to do in social situations.

Freeway of Love by Jan Latiolais

Hargrave. This is a dumbed-down, \"What colour is your parachute\" kind of book for people who want to learn

about body language and how to use it to meet and court other people. She relies on illustrations which are not

quite as goofy as Quilliam\'s book. She also has a lot of self-tests with scores. Many women writers like this

sort of thing, and the book may be more appealing to men. Nonetheless, it IS a woman\'s perspective on body

language and men need to take that into consideration. She provides chapters on palm reading and kissing (complete

with statistics and anecdotes).

I know what you\'re thinking by Lillian Glass. She is a practicing,

clinical psychologist who has had to rely on body language in many situations. Her book is, in my opinion, by far

the best one out there that I have found. She is not concerned with preaching \"how to get into anyone\'s

pants\" or \"how to find true love\". She takes you on a guided tour of the basic human psyche and how we reveal

our inner feelings through the way we physically express ourselves.

None of these books, by themselves, will

teach you enough about body language to make up for a lifetime of ignoring it. Several of them, on their own, are

very good introductions to body language. Several of them give really good information on how to use body language

at work, in friendly social situations, and when dealing with strangers.

They will show you how other people

evaluate you, and why they reach the conclusions they do about what kind of person you are. If you decide to change

your body language, you are in effect changing your attitude about yourself. So, for anyone who feels a lack of

confidence or low self-esteem, I think reading books on body language would be very, very helpful.

It reveals

an entirely different world to you.

Today, for example, after I got out of dance class, I went to have lunch

at a local bistro. I was seated in a section where I could look out the window (the hostess knows I like that

section). But they were short on servers so my server had to handle five or six tables.

At the booth in

front of me, there was a couple, an older man and younger woman. Their body language told me that A) they are very

much in love B) they are going through a happy period in their life C) they only have eyes for each

other.

How did I know that? First of all, they were sitting on the same side of the booth. Secondly, one or

both of them would usually put a hand between his or her face and me. They made frequent, intense eye contact.

They leaned in toward each other. They mirrored each other\'s expressions and postures. I observed all this as

discretely as I could out of the corner of my eye. I made sure I changed the direction of my gaze frequently, but I

had plenty of people to watch.

At a table directly across from the booth with the age-gap couple, a young man

and woman walked in. He sat down on her left. She crossed her legs and leaned back. His legs were wide open. She

crossed her arms. She stole occasional looks at me (she had to turn and look over her shoulder to do this). He let

his gaze wander around. They did not talk much. His feet figdeted (bounced up and down like he was doing a pee-pee

dance in his chair).

What I learned from that couple was that she is not very interested in him, he is not

nearly as confident with her as he may once have been. They could have been brother and sister, or cousins, but I

don\'t think so. Relatives usually have a lot to say when they sit down to lunch. She made occasional efforts to

talk to him, but at one point I noticed that both of her feet were pointing toward me. That had to be a very

uncomfortable posture, as one foot was still wrapped behind the other leg.

She was not nearly as attracted to

her companion as she was to me. I was wearing scent of Eros but was also a bit sweaty after two hours of vigorous

dancing. I was probably screaming pheromonically.

At a table behind this couple, a woman and her teenage or

early twenties daughter came in. Mom sat in a chair facing me, the daughter sat with her right shoulder pointing

toward me (same as the girl at the other table). Mom cast occasional glances my way in a fairly protective way. I

knew she didn\'t want me to make eye contact with her daughter.

The daughter crossed her left leg over her

right leg and let her sandle dangle on the edge of her toe. She kept looking at me when Mom was looking away. When

she saw me looking back, she immediately turned away. She turned her shoulders slightly so that I could see her

breasts better (she was simply wearing a t-shirt, but she was still obviously developed).

Mom looked relieved

when I pulled a $20 bill out of my wallet and asked the server for my check. Not that I was going to move in on the

daughter or anything. But I was the only single male within speaking distance and it was obvious that the daughter

was interested in me. I was a threat, however remote, to Mom\'s little girl.


Let\'s back up to

dance class. The second class for was beginners. Lots of cute girls showed up. I and several other advanced

students stayed around to help. I flirted with the girls a little but there was no way I could really come on to

them openly.

But I could show them I was a powerful, confident male. I did this in several ways, including

telling them they could dance with their eyes closed. I ordered three of them to close their eyes as I led them

through the routine. This was an act of submission, because they were trusting me NOT to make them look stupid and

NOT to trip them or lose them.

One of the girls, the oldest one (she is in her mid-twenties) came to me in

one rotation and locked eyes with me. She said, \"Let\'s see who blinks first.\" She did. I was supposed to

turn my gaze away as I led her through a certain basic move, but for her I just kept staring into her eyes. Her

pupils began widening (I am sure mine did, too -- or maybe they were already huge).

We kept dancing and as I

whirled her around I brought her in closer to me, very close, much closer than the other girls. I was marking my

turf and the other girls knew it. Did anything happen? No. I made no other move on her. I may or may not see her

again. Doesn\'t matter. I let her know I was a sexual creature willing to take things further.

After the

class, she asked the teacher why a continuation course was not being offered at the same time next month. The

teacher said she didn\'t have enough students for that level on Saturday. This girl offered to bring in enough

friends in July to make up a class. As she was doing so, she was looking at the teacher but her body was facing

mine squarely. Her shoulders were pulled back and she was mirroring my posture.

I literally said, \"I could

have you if I wanted to,\" with my body, and then I ignored her. She responded by saying, \"I am interested.\"

I let her walk out of the class by herself without looking her in the eye again.

Like I said, I may never see

her again. But she WANTED to see ME again as she left that class.

THAT is what reading body language is all

about, gentlemen.

[Holmes]

Good post.

(Did I

say that already?)


Holmes

[koolking1]

Excellent!!! I

used to have an interest in this subject (still do, but I mean to the point of searching for books and finding

nothing then that satisfied my curiousity). Great - I have a new reading list to get through!!! I hope this thread

prospers, it\'s very interesting stuff.

[MOBLEYC57]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Excellent!!! I used to have an interest in this

subject (still do, but I mean to the point of searching for books and finding nothing then that satisfied my

curiousity). Great - I have a new reading list to get through!!! I hope this thread prospers, it\'s very

interesting stuff.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Definitely interesting! Iris once posted

something about the stages/steps in courtship...how the steps are takened, and how it must be in the exact order to

be successful. That I\'d like to find...the book &amp; author. Anyone seen Iris?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Thanks for sharing, Signor Friendly1.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Sagacious1420]

Not sure what

Iris posted, but iirc (not really sure) David Givens discusses these steps and their order of progression in one or

more of his books. I know this link has been posted before, but since the subject has come up again, some of you

may find this (\"http://digilander.libero.it/linguaggiodelcorpo/flirt/\") useful.

[MysteriousMan]

Hi

all,

After some time caring about body language, I believe that...

- the reason why all body language

books are bad is, that you can\'t change your body language by learning body langue.

- You change your body

language by changing what you ARE. Others, especially women can read this without being trained especially.

-

you can train reading body language better by learning how power, tension, attraction and teasing between people,

especially men and women, works. This short sentence was months of hard (and fun!) work for me and I will learn

on.

- being good at reading body language means you need acurate theories how the powerplay between men and

women works. Some weeks ago you could have seen my surprised face when I said to myself \'I can see!!!\', like

somebody who was healed by Jesus himself. I saw a gorgeous girl kissing an average urgly young man all over. They

both didn\'t speak. And I saw his body language - and recognized that this was what I learned before (by David

DeAngelo and others) about the attitude that attracts women. One year ago, before I learned this, I could have

watched this scene and wouldn\'t have noticed anything.

- Acting consciously with body language is

perceived as a mask. Let your unconscious mind learn and act. Again, this means improving what you are.

- In

your brain, pattern recognition is the same as pattern building. So the body language reading is done with the help

the same part of your brain that controls your muscles. You can\'t say \"I now use the body langue recognition

part of my brain\". But you can improve your ability by \"relaxing all your muscles and use your whole body as an

antenna to perceive what somebody feels\". This also relaxes the right pattern recognition part of your

brain.

MysteriousMan

[franki]

Good Post, MM!

[Friendly1]

Hi all,



After some time caring about body language, I believe that...

- the reason why all body language books are bad

is, that you can\'t change your body language by learning body langue.


Just about everything else

can be learned from books. Math, art, photography, gardening, how to drive. Even how to speak other languages. There

are thousands of books out there which teach people how to do everything.

Yes, you CAN learn body language from

books.

The best books explain WHY it means what it means.

Very few men can intuit how body language works. I

doubt anyone can do it in the space of a few months. You mention David Deangelo. Sounds like you have been learning

by reading.

[Friendly1]

At a table

behind this couple, a woman and her teenage or early twenties daughter came in. Mom sat in a chair facing me, the

daughter sat with her right shoulder pointing toward me (same as the girl at the other table). Mom cast occasional

glances my way in a fairly protective way. I knew she didn't want me to make eye contact with her daughter.

The

daughter crossed her left leg over her right leg and let her sandle dangle on the edge of her toe. She kept looking

at me when Mom was looking away. When she saw me looking back, she immediately turned away. She turned her shoulders

slightly so that I could see her breasts better (she was simply wearing a t-shirt, but she was still obviously

developed).
I forgot to mention something I thought was kind of funny. Don Steele makes a big fuss over a

woman stroking her glass in his book. This is supposedly a big sign.

Until yesterday, I had never seen a woman

do that. There was one night where I was making eye contact with a woman who stirred her drink and sipped from it

whenever I did. But no stroking.

Yesterday, the daughter stroked the straw in her drink as she looked at me.

That gesture by itself is nothing I would bank on, but taken with all the other gestures she made, I suppose

Mom\'s concern was a little justified.

[MysteriousMan]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Hi all,

After some time caring about body language, I believe that...

-

the reason why all body language books are bad is, that you can\'t change your body language by learning body

langue.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Just about everything else can be learned from books.

Math, art, photography, gardening, how to drive. Even how to speak other languages. There are thousands of books

out there which teach people how to do everything.

Yes, you CAN learn body language from books.

The best books

explain WHY it means what it means.

Very few men can intuit how body language works. I doubt anyone can do it in

the space of a few months. You mention David Deangelo. Sounds like you have been learning by reading.





<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Hi Friendly,

didn\'t you hear the emphasis? :-)))
I

didn\'t complain about books. My point is (and I explored this somewhat later) that I didn\'t learn much from

books that teach body language itself. (now the emphasis is in italic). My point is: if, for instance, you

want to express self confidence in your body language, learn whatever is necessary to be self confident, your body

language will express this automatically. If you learn self confident body language, it will be much harder for

you.

So you see, I don\'t say reading is bad. I read very very much.

Well, except David DeAngelo. I learned

much more from his DVDs than from his books.

Can you list good body language books and give some comments why

they are good?

MysteriousMan

[Sexyredhead]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


Can you list good body language books and give

some comments why they are good?

MysteriousMan

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

He mentioned

7 in his first post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MysteriousMan]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


Can you list good body language books and give some comments why they are

good?

MysteriousMan

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

He mentioned 7 in his first post.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yep, I noticed

after I sent it. Seems I read his posting as carefully as he read mine

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Sorry to Friendly,

MysteriousMan

[Friendly1]

I

didn\'t complain about books. My point is (and I explored this somewhat later) that I didn't learn much from

books that teach body language itself. (now the emphasis is in italic). My point is: if, for instance, you

want to express self confidence in your body language, learn whatever is necessary to be self confident, your body

language will express this automatically.
Then let me point out that, those who want a little feedback on

their progress in developing and displaying newfound confidence will profit immensely from learning more about body

language.

What you can perceive in others, you can perceive in your own actions. And people CAN and DO learn how

to stand, walk, and speak more confidently simply by learning what to look for.

The books I listed above cover

different approaches to the use of body language. Some of them are not very informative but they add to the

collective experience.

[SweetBrenda]

interesting! i

really enjoyed reading! excellent! thanks for posting this.
~*waves @u*~

[deb]

Not

sure what Iris posted, but iirc (not really sure) David Givens discusses these steps and their order of progression

in one or more of his books. I know this link has been posted before, but since the subject has come up again, some

of you may find this (\"http://digilander.libero.it/linguaggiodelcorpo/flirt/\")

useful.

It is pretty interesting, now I know where the quote "come hither" came from.

[Friendly1]

I thought a little update on

this discussion would be interesting. I am visiting family right now and one of my nieces took me to a local mall. I

read the body language of some of the sales girls in the stores to figure out which ones were open to conversations

with me. My niece got a little disgusted with her "dirty old man" of an uncle because I kept striking up flirty

conversations with cute girls.

It may have helped that she was with me and we were joking around. Seeing me in

the company of someone their own age may have helped put the girls at ease. But not every woman/girl I made eye

contact with expressed interest in me. I only came on to the ones who directed their full attention at me.

My

niece said something interesting to me. She asked me if I check out every woman. I said, "I try to make eye contact

with all women by habit. Is it so obvious?" She said, "Yes." I said, "Is there a problem with that?" She said,

"No."

We then had a discussion about how I select women to approach by seeing how they respond to my eye

contact. She said that seemed like a good way to do it. She was a little uncomfortable talking about this. I think

it was because we have never had this kind of discussion before. She is not used to talking with me about

relationships and meeting people.

Throughout the day, I flirted with women of all ages and appearance. The only

girl I did not flirt with (much) was one my niece said could not have been older than 16. I cannot tell how old the

young girls are. Most of the ones I think are teenagers turn out to be in their early twenties. But this girl was

just a bit too shy even though she told her co-worker to take care of my niece so she could give me personal

attention.

For the record, I had not applied pheromones that day. So, maybe I was benefitting from long-term

buildup but I was definitely benefitting from being a relaxed, confident man. Besides which, I knew I couldn't

ditch my niece, so I had nothing to lose with any of those women and didn't worry about whether I would be

successful or not. Having that feeling is the easiest way to radiate your honest, natural confidence.

Women pick

up on that instantly and they find it VERY attractive.

[koolking1]

Hi Friendly, glad to see

the thread revived. I'm about 3/5 through the Lillian Glass book and learning.

[DrSmellThis]

Nice post....

[Friendly1]

Koolking1, what do you think of

Lillian's book so far? I think other people would appreciate your first impression. I have read the book several

times and my opinion is based on rereading it.

And I have to say that I would not have been able to flirt with

several girls in succession several years ago like I did at the mall the other day. I would not have known how to

recognize which ones were interested in me and which ones were not.

Learning to read body language has helped me

take a more active role in meeting and getting to know people.

[SweetBrenda]

Learning to read body language has helped me take a more active role in meeting and getting to know

people.I never read any books on this but by reading some of the things in this thread got my curiosity..I

have some free time today so I'm going to swing by the Library & get me a book on this subject. Body language

sometimes says more than words.. I really would like to learn more about it. by the way very good posts

Friendly.

[koolking1]

Hi Friendly, well - am

about 4/5s thru it now and can't really comment much as I'm a fast reader and I'll have to read it all over again

to get anything "real" out of it. I have learned from it but not as much as I thought I would but but like I

said, I'll need to read it at least one more time to make any legitimate comments on it. I would recommend it

though already for anyone who has an interest in the subject matter.

[Friendly1]

I think the most important

thing I learned from that book was that the power of observation should not be underestimated. We learn by doing.

And opening ourself up to the things we normally overlook is an empowering experience.

I have had some

discussions about body language with a few women recently. One of them is a child psychologist who works with

autistic children. All the women agreed in general that we express ourselves through our body movements.

Don

Steele likes to say, "You cannot NOT communicate." Sometimes, I hear those words rolling through my mind when I

wish I could hide my thoughts and feelings from someone. I CANNOT hide the way I feel. If I try to clam up, I am

sending a clear signal of "I do not want you to know what I am thinking/feeling."

People who know you well can

detect the slightest oddity. This morning, both my sister-in-law and my mother asked me what was wrong. There

wasn't really anything bothering me, except maybe a mosquito bite on my arm and the fact my jeans were feeling a

little too tight. But I wasn't my usual jovial self, I guess. I was feeling a little irritated and two people who

have known me most or all of my life noticed the change immediately.

Steele is right about that much, at least.

You cannot NOT communicate to someone who observes what you do.

[koolking1]

Well, we're going to a

well-attended swapper's party on Sat night (we went for the first time two weeks ago to this particular party). I

spent most of the last evening there just observing and it was very interesting. One might think that everyone in

attendance is happy but that's hardly the case and being able to read the body language helps me make decisions,

especially about staying away from certain women based on what I can observe. If you've never been to one, it

almost resembles a high school dance with all the posturing that goes on and it's complicated by having to "make a

connection" with two people instead of the usual one, actually 4 people total when you include your own partner. My

main goal is to know which women (of those I am attracted to) will accept me by using body language knowledge and

then, keeping them hooked for the future, by being sexually adept and having them take in all the mones I'm wearing

and sort of falling in love with me. Just trying to live a bit for the future and the moment. And, by focusing in

on the ones I find attractive, if they hang around me it will get me other attractive ones as well - you know

women!!! I do need some edges as I'm older than most of the attendees.

At any rate, you (Friendly1) or

Dr Glass would have a blast if you could watch how things unfold at one of these events.

[camusflage]

At any rate,

you (Friendly1) or Dr Glass would have a blast if you could watch how things unfold at one of these

events.
Yes yes yes yes yes! I think the only thing more fun than people-watching at an on-premises club

is watching at an off-premises (ie, no sex rooms) club. Think back to your college days. Now, pretend EVERYONE is

there to hook up with someone(s). Being well-versed in body language both served me very well and provided much

enjoyable time when visiting such clubs.

[Friendly1]

This is becoming so habitual

with me, I even watch for body language in movies now. It's interesting to see how on-screen "chemistry" between

two actors is reflected in their body language. If the woman is stroking her hair when talking to a man she is

supposed to be attracted to, or if she preens suddenly before moving into his view, or if they make eye contact. It

is very natural and realistic, and that is hard to convey given all the changes in camera angles and multiple shots

for each scene. The continuity (or lack of it) with body language is sometimes very obvious.

I watched "50

First Dates" with a niece tonight and I couldn't help but notice Drew Barrymore's use of body language to show her

character's attraction to Adam Sandler's character.

[koolking1]

I won't write anything

comprehensive as I've just finished the book and will re-read it soon. It was a quick read. I guess the main

thing I got out of it was recognizing my own personality type and I'm happy with it. As Friendly and the good Dr

relate, practice makes perfect - you really do need to observe other people's body language and speech to get good

at this.

[Friendly1]

I stumbled across an

interesting site with articles on body language this morning. The articles appear to be promotional pieces intended

to help draw traffic into other sites. Nonetheless, I read several very good articles:

http://www.selfgrow

th.com/bodyl.html (http://www.selfgrowth.com/bodyl.html)

One of the

sites mentioned there was this photo analysis site:

http://www.photo-analys

is.com/ (http://www.photo-analysis.com/)




Simply amazing stuff. My sister-in-law can look at people's

pictures and give a quick analysis of their personalities. She has been spot on in my experience. It just blows me

away how people can read photographs that way.

[Friendly1]

I decided to go back and edit

some of my imported messages, since the quoting changed. While reading the older messages, I remembered something

interesting which happened a few weeks ago.

I attended a conference over a weekend. On the second day, I sat in

on a small session where everyone sat around a conference table. At one point, I noticed the woman conducting the

session was looking at me and stroking her pen up and down.

That is supposedly a very strong indicator of sexual

interest. I decided to watch her a little more closely after that and noticed she was mirroring some of my body

language, which is also a good sign. Later on in the evening we sat together and joked around. I had good vibes.



Still later, we showed up at the same party (separately) and she looked like she wanted to talk to me but her

girlfriends got bored and made her leave. She waved good-bye to me and I waved back.

I ended up exchanging some

email with her and she was a little flirty.

I got those clues right out of the body language books.

[camusflage]

At one point,

I noticed the woman conducting the session was looking at me and stroking her pen up and down.
I know

most people who have never seen it (or more accurately, picked up on it) will probably think it's bs that women

will do this, but I've seen it. This same woman, that evening, stroked my arm in conversation, continually bounced

her leg, touseled her hair, and when it came time to do some dancing, pressed herself against me like white on rice.

She didn't really do it for me, but it was explicitly clear I did it for her!*

* Or at least my pheros did.

;)

[Friendly1]

Okay, new anecdote.

I am

still visiting family in Florida, so I have cut way back on the pheromones and on dressing well. But yesterday I

decided to put on a nice shirt, nice slacks, nice shoes. I put on my usual low dose of pheromones in the morning.

I did not refresh them all day. Didn't even add the APC.

By late afternoon, one of my nieces and I go to a

local bookstore. We take her baby along. For a while, I am hanging around the niece and she is clearly a little

bugged. So, I offer to go sit with the baby while she browses.

Baby and I find a comfortable chair by a window

and I position the baby in my lap so she can look around at the people. Naturally, I see a young guy sitting with

two girls, both pretty cute, close by. I would put them in their late teens or early twenties, but I am a pretty

bad judge of age.

The guy had one girl sitting on his left. The other girl was sitting directly across a table

from him.

Both girls could see me but would have to turn to give me direct eye contact.

The guy was rambling

on in his own world. The girl sitting across from him was leaning back with her left leg across her knee. I don't

know when she stretched back like that but she was wearing tight khaki shorts and sandals and she had REALLY nice

legs. I never saw her look at me, but her body was turned just slightly away from the guy, a little to her right,

so as to be pointed toward the girl next to the guy.

The girl next to the guy kept looking away. Her feet were

crossed under her chair and on their toes. Every now and then I would catch her looking at me and she would quickly

look away. Or was she looking at the baby? I don't know.

Eventually, the girl in the khaki shorts said

good-bye to the dude and got up to leave. She came toward me, walked around the table to my right, and then came

back across my vision and walked out of the store. She made no attempt to make eye contact, so I would guess she

was just teasing the dirty old man with the baby in his lap.

The other girl immediately changed her position.

At first, she stuck her legs way out under the table, as if to stake out her territory. Think of how a small dog,

after having its turf invaded by a larger dog, immediately goes to remark the boundary. That was the impression I

got. She was wearing jeans so she was definitely not giving me an eye full of anything.

Then she started to

mirror the guy's body position. I watched them for a few minutes (not staring, mind you, but just glancing their

way every now and then) and they closed up on each other: faced each other, crossed their arms together, put their

feet out in front of them a little. She became more relaxed and more animated now that he was paying attention to

her. He also listened more.

I gathered from this that the guy was attracted to the girl in the khaki shorts

(she was definitely looking sexier than his girlfriend). The girlfriend was a bit POd because of his obvious

interest in the other girl but she was apparently used to this. He must be pretty popular. He is also into himself

when he tries to impress people. He would NOT shut up when the girl in khaki was sitting there with him, and he

could not see how closed her body language was to him.

On the other hand, the guy is legitimately still

interested in his girlfriend and she enjoys being with him when they are alone together. If she was paying any

attention to me at all, it was only out of boredom or loneliness, and given how easily babies are girl-magnets, I

would say she was probably more interested in the baby. Maybe she was wondering if the baby was mine. Maybe she

was just looking out the window over my shoulder.

When my niece was ready to leave, I decided to flirt with the

cashier. I joked with her about exchanging the baby for the book. Got a hair flip, warm smile, and strong eye

contact out of the conversation. She definitely changed her attitude after I started talking to her. I think that

was the pheromones. I could not tell if the people in the store thought the baby was mine. I was a bit curious

about whether they thought that. My gut feeling is that I probably did not act much like a father. Too little

experience (yet) holding babies like a daddy would.

[bjf]

Using babies to pick up chicks!!!

Nice! :)

[Friendly1]

New anecdote.

Last night I

went to dinner with another of my nieces (to celebrate her upcoming birthday) and some of her friends. There were

two women, two boys, and four men in the group (counting me). Call the niece Angie, the niece's girlfriend Wendy.

Angie's boyfriend Tom came along, and Wendy's boyfriend Rupert came along with his two sons. A male friend,

Robbie, was also there.

I sat at the head of our table. Tom sat to my right, Angie (my niece) sat to his right,

Robbie sat on her right, and opposite from me was Older Son. On my left was Younger Son, on his left was Wendy, and

on her left was Rupert. All the names have been changed to keep me confused.

So, during the evening, I noticed

that Angie and Wendy kept mirroring each other. They were very comfortable with each other, having been friends for

years. Rupert occasionally leaned back in his chair and sometimes leaned toward Wendy. She occasionally leaned

toward him. Wendy occasionally leaned toward me as well (I was wearing pheromones and a good cologne).

Robbie

sat at an angle, with his body facing our table and occasionally leaning toward Angie (my niece). I decided that he

likes her, but I don't know if he is romantically interested or just very good friends with her. I have heard about

Robbie from all the family, who insist I should have met him already, but this was the first time he and I had ever

run into each other.

Tom did not lean toward Angie. He did not mirror her body language at all. She occasionally

leaned toward him. He stayed focused on the table and often led the conversation. Once in a while he put his arm out

to "claim" Angie and he occasionally kissed her. When Tom and Angie are together, they are very affectionate but it

is clear to everyone in the family that he is not committed to her. I noticed how his body language reflected that

last night. The whole clan is convinced she is heading for heartbreak.

Anyway, it was an interesting exercise in

reading body language of some strangers up close when they were not really interacting with me. And I did get to

read some body language of people at other tables.

There was a girl in a red dress sitting at a 45 degree angle

off to my right. I had to look over Tom's shoulder to see her, so I could easily act like I was looking at him and

still give her eye contact. She often looked back at me and I stared her down. Each time, she would lean to her

left. I noticed her male companion, probably her boyfriend, was leaning to HIS left, so the sequence would be: girl

glances at me, I notice girl looking at me, I stare back, she looks at boyfriend and mirrors his body language.



This happened at least four or five times. He eventually turned around and looked in my direction but he could

have been looking for a server. At some point in the evening, they left the restaurant.

To my left, behind the

Younger Son (who was seated on my immediate left), there was a table with several women. One of them got up an went

to the restroom a couple of times, preening as she walked by us. But no eye contact.

A family sat down behind

Older Son at the far end of the table. A father, mother, and two teenage daughters. The older teenage daughter

occasionally made eye contact with me and I was a bit amused, somewhat curious. She seemed to be mirroring her

father's body language, so I occasionally decided to mirror hers. It didn't seem to have any effect, so I am not

sure her eye contact was for real. She may simply have been staring off in my direction. But at one point I noticed

she was dipping her tea spoon into her tea (up and down, up and down) and looking in my general direction. That is

very similar to the classic stroking gesture. She repeated it with a straw a little while later.

Both times she

did the stroking gesture, she immediately turned to her father and mirrored his body language.

Mom had her back

to me and I never saw much movement from her. The younger sister seemed pretty quiet, too. Dad was the most

expressive one in the group. It was an odd study in body language.

I occasionally glanced around the restaurant

but none of the other patrons were in positions where I could watch them without blatently staring.

I would

consider the girl in red a hit. Our server, a guy, tended to conduct business with our table from my end. I would

say that was more because I was the man at the head of the table than for anything else. I don't think Wendy was

being anything other than friendly, although she occasionally caressed her hair. Since she is living with Rupert,

one would think she was doing that for him. But she could just as easily have been doing it for Tom or for our

server (a tall, good looking guy). She could also have just been stroking her hair. But she never stroked her hair

on Rupert's side. In fact, she rarely looked at him. Most of her attention was on the rest of the table.

[camusflage]

You brought up something very

interesting Friendly.. Namely the amazing opportunities that await an avid people-watcher in a restaurant that

attracts groups and families. I remember sitting in a Morton's about a year ago and watching what I considered a

VERY interesting family. From the seating and the shuffling that followed, I was able to infer that there was some

EXTREMELY bad blood between a 30-something woman and a man I assumed to be her father. While her brother was happy

to sit next to his father, she went to great lengths to keep not only herself, but her young daughter as well, away

from her father. Though not sloppily drunk, it quickly became apparent that dad liked to knock a few back from time

to time. His wife grew increasingly exasperated with the patriarch's drinking, but said nothing, only showing it

through growing increasingly closed to him and open to her daughter.

Once you are clued in about what to

watch, it almost becomes like a game to try to predict what will happen next. You can easily spot the guys who will

spend the night flitting from one woman to the next because they persist in communicating even when every sign from

a woman says "get the hell away from me." Similarly, you increase your own chances of a friendly response because

you've already been given non-verbal approval to approach.

[SweetBrenda]

You brought

up something very interesting Friendly.. Namely the amazing opportunities that await an avid people-watcher in a

restaurant that attracts groups and families. I remember sitting in a Morton's about a year ago and watching what I

considered a VERY interesting family. From the seating and the shuffling that followed, I was able to infer that

there was some EXTREMELY bad blood between a 30-something woman and a man I assumed to be her father. While her

brother was happy to sit next to his father, she went to great lengths to keep not only herself, but her young

daughter as well, away from her father. Though not sloppily drunk, it quickly became apparent that dad liked to

knock a few back from time to time. His wife grew increasingly exasperated with the patriarch's drinking, but said

nothing, only showing it through growing increasingly closed to him and open to her daughter.

Once you are clued

in about what to watch, it almost becomes like a game to try to predict what will happen next. You can easily spot

the guys who will spend the night flitting from one woman to the next because they persist in communicating even

when every sign from a woman says "get the hell away from me." Similarly, you increase your own chances of a

friendly response because you've already been given non-verbal approval to approach.:goodpost: This was

good.

[Friendly1]

Another new anecdote. There is

too little information in this one for me to form a solid opinion. Maybe I got a hit. It sure felt like a hit.

Some people may disagree with me because of the situation (and that is okay).

When I went to get a haircut, I

freshened my APC with four new dabs. Had applied pheromones in late morning, got the haircut in late afternoon.

Wasn't expecting anything, really. Just needed the haircut.

Waited a long time and the place thinned out

considerably. Much to my surprise, a slim, extremely cute stylist called me up. She seemed a little chatty at

first. I sat down in the chair and she started running her fingers through my hair, almost massaging my scalp. I

was very glad I am down to just using dandruff shampoo for the last week (too cheap to buy regular shampoo while I

stay with my niece).

When she asked me how I wanted my hair cut, I said, "I want people to melt when I

approach." She seemed to like that.

During the session, I learned that this rather thin but otherwise extremely

sexy girl is engaged and apparently living with her fiance. She early on asked if I was married but did not

continue to ask the usual "are you available?" kinds of questions. As best I can tell, she was just being friendly.

But this was the friendliest scalp massage I have ever had from a complete stranger. It was really very relaxing.

And considering I have a couple of thin spots up on top, it was a real pleasure to have a beautiful young lady

digging her hands through my hair like that.

Anyway, after the scalp massage, the stylist asked if I wanted a

shampoo. I told her I wanted my hair to look good and she should do whatever she felt would work best. So, she

gave me a quick shampoo. The water was a little hot, and she asked if it was to hot, and all I could think was,

"Wow! Talk about the power of suggestion!" So, it felt tolerable and I told her the hot water was fine.

We

came back to the chair and she started snipping away. She kept digging the comb into my scalp. She wasn't doing

it painfully (it was not uncomfortable, but was just on the edge of uncomfortable -- it was extremely sensual

combing), but I've never had a stylist consistently comb my hair so vigorously.

Somewhere in the middle of the

session, she cut her finger with the scissors. It was bleeding badly enough she had to go treat it. Right after

that, another stylist came up and said something about her taking on some man's young son. So, she took off to the

front of the salon to get THAT detail redirected to someone else.

As she moved around me, she pressed into my

legs. Now, any guy who has had his hair cut by a voluptuous or very heavy-set woman knows that incidental contact

as she moves around you is pretty common. This girl is THIN. I am pretty sure she was pressing herself into my leg

(actually, onto my hand where it rested on my knee). I moved my hand off my knee and she kept pressing.

Since

she was working on the front of my hair, she didn't need to lean in that much (in my non-stylist's opinion).

I

would have to say that, overall, this was the most erotic haircut I've ever had in a public place. When she

finished, she said, "Don't go out into the sun because people will melt when they see you."

My scalp is still

on fire several hours later, just thinking about that haircut.

I was wearing Natural Attraction in additon to

the APC. I have a bottle I am trying to finish off. It is down far enough that the sprayer cannot get the last of

the liquid, so the last couple of days I have been tilting the opened bottle directly onto my skin. I could easily

be approaching OD range with this application. I am not getting dabs so much as dribbles: two on the chest, one on

each arm.

I supplemented the Natural Attraction with four dabs of APC on the base of my neck (front and back)

and behind the ears. So, after freshening up this afternoon, I had eight dabs of APC on me.

Although this is

more of a straightforward hit report, I included it in this discussion because her body language just seemed to

scream to me, "I want to jump your bones!" She was definitely NOT holding back.

Almost makes me wish I could get

another haircut tomorrow....

[Numanoid]

:thumbsup: These are probably

the best posts I've read since joining the forum. Very informative.

[koolking1]

great post and I'll offer

up my own suggestion about haircuts. I put on my usual Chikara and AE/m and went to one of the local beauty

colleges. I was fawned over by the person doing the haircut and two of her instructors. The instructors were both

very nice looking women and I was also getting approving glances from some of the other nearby students. It was all

very enjoyable except the haircut took an awful long time - well over an hour with all the "consults" going on with

the instructors. The young lady told me that she was more comfortable and faster doing woman's hair - she was

extremely cautious with me, hence the slowness. But, I didn't mind at all. I think I'll go back there for my next

haircut. Beauty colleges are loaded with good looking women and cheap to boot.

[DrSmellThis]

Good idea, KK.

[belgareth]

You brought

up something very interesting Friendly.. Namely the amazing opportunities that await an avid people-watcher in a

restaurant that attracts groups and families. I remember sitting in a Morton's about a year ago and watching what I

considered a VERY interesting family. From the seating and the shuffling that followed, I was able to infer that

there was some EXTREMELY bad blood between a 30-something woman and a man I assumed to be her father. While her

brother was happy to sit next to his father, she went to great lengths to keep not only herself, but her young

daughter as well, away from her father. Though not sloppily drunk, it quickly became apparent that dad liked to

knock a few back from time to time. His wife grew increasingly exasperated with the patriarch's drinking, but said

nothing, only showing it through growing increasingly closed to him and open to her daughter.

Once you are clued

in about what to watch, it almost becomes like a game to try to predict what will happen next. You can easily spot

the guys who will spend the night flitting from one woman to the next because they persist in communicating even

when every sign from a woman says "get the hell away from me." Similarly, you increase your own chances of a

friendly response because you've already been given non-verbal approval to approach.
People watching can

be a blast. I used to hate go to the mall with most women because they always take so long. Now I go so I can sit in

the concourse and watch the people.

[Friendly1]

No new anecdotes today (except

I got a shopper's discount at a local grocery store without the card), but the women in my family all agreed the

hair stylist was blatantly hitting on me. I wasn't going to tell them the story, but one of my nieces asked me

about how my haircut went. Naturally, I had to dwell on the details. She, being 19 (and probably younger than the

stylist by a few years), was completely grossed out that her uncle is such a dirty old man. This is the same niece I

went to the mall with, so she is getting a little tired of all the girls coming on to me. Of course, she seems to

have a pack of boys buzzing around her like flies....

Funniest part of this whole episode was the fact that the

hair stylist is my niece's stylist. She totally freaked when I told her the girl's name. At first she started

saying, "I can't go back there! I have to find a new salon! Ohmigod!" When I told my sister-in-law about this, she

guessed correctly that would be her daughter's first reaction. But eventually the niece concluded she might just

have to go back and have a conversation with the stylist.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall that day....

[phinmone]

Friendly1, I just read you

thread about the bodylanguage and the differend books you have read (or just copied the introductions?). I have a

question about "I know what you're thinking by Lillian Glass". How much there is body language introduced? I have

read Body Language by J. Fast. But it did not really give me anything I was looking for. I am looking for a book

that really tells me the signs what to look for concerning interest and / or attraction. I can read some signs to

look for on some web-pages but I think I want to know more about it. Ok, I can read some basic signs, but I need

deeper ones! So what about "Body Language Secrets by Don Steele" - "good introduction to the body language of

meeting, courting, and seducing people" -- this would be something I would maybe be looking for. Does he give some

exact description how to read the body and how to make your bodylanguage interesting / showing the

signs?

Thank you,
phinmone

[Friendly1]

No one book is going to teach

you everything. Each author has his or her own style of presenting the information, and it helps me to see these

different perceptions. Glass' book is not intended for people trying to find relationship partners (or sex

partners). Her book tries to give you the fundamentals of what reading body language is all about. You can

determine a lot about a person's personality from body language, and she provides some great tips. If you are

interested in a girl, you should want to know more about her. Is she self-obsessed? Does she have low self-esteem?

Is she so stressed out she cannot be emotionally stable? Is she so insecure that she constantly picks on other

people?

Body language isn't just about how we sit or stand. It includes how we treat other people. Glass goes

over a lot of material.

Steele's book is okay. His writing style is very amateurish. He comes off like a high

school football coach trying to tell the boys to go out there and win the game because otherwise they'll look like

a bunch of snot-nosed losers. Sometimes, he makes his points dead on. Sometimes, I wonder why he repeats the same

superfluous stuff for the fifteenth time. Repetition is important, but he repeats fluff as well as facts.

If

you want a straight-forward guide to meeting, talking with, and getting to know girls through body language, you

won't find one. Steele's book tries to be that, but it runs off into so many tangents that the real meat could

probably be squeezed down to about a third of the book. A lot of the material in the back promotes his other

stuff.

All the authors agree on a few points, so anyone who wants to study body language can get started

there:

1) Be observant. You can Keep a diary of people you have observed and describe their actions and

behaviors in detail.

2) Don't draw immediate conclusions. In other words, no one gesture or behavior means

anything by itself. Steele advises people to look at three actions. If all three indicate interest, then there is

interest. If only two indicate interest, there MAY be interest. If only one indicates interest, then something

else is going on. All the books strongly suggest you look for multiple indications of the person's mood or state

of mind.

3) Practice expressing yourself as you want people to perceive you. Do you want to seem strong and

confident? Then make sure you compose yourself well. Don't allow yourself to do nervous or jittery things

(drumming fingers, foot tapping, etc.). Sit up straight. Always practice good posture.

4) Be courteous. This

point is not emphasized enough, in my opinion. But courtesy elicits favorable reactions from other people. You can

influence how people behave toward you through simple actions.

5) Avoid people who project the wrong body

language. If they are not friendly toward you, or not interested in you, leave them alone.

6) Practice building

rapport with the people around you. Rapport is key to seduction but it is also key to building a solid

relationship. If you make the people you work with feel comfortable, they will enjoy working with you and help you

more often (usually without your asking for help) when you need help. Rapport is not simply established by

mirroring body gestures. You have to understand that it also includes breathing, facial expressions, and speech.

Reflecting the attitudes of those people around you, without being facetious, is an important method of opening

their emotional doors.

The more you practice these basic skills, the better you will become at communicating

through body language. Most people won't even be aware of what you are doing. But you will be able to signal

confidence, reservation, interest, favor, and other things to people. They will simply "know" how you feel about

something. And when you negotiate, you'll be in better control over what you reveal about yourself.

The

benefits to be gained from learning body language extend to all aspects of your life. You can even improve your own

mood by changing the way you are sitting or breathing. If you are feeling down, you can immediately feel better by

sitting up, pulling your shoulders back, breathing deeply, holding your head up, etc. If you are feeling happy, you

can change your mood to something less jubilant by leaning forward, allowing your shoulders to drop/droop, and

breathing more shallowly.

Several of these books make the point that most of our communication is non-verbal.

If that is really true, then body language should be at the top of your list of skills to learn in life.

[camusflage]

I'm going to offer up another

book, which while not body language per se, is closely related. The book is called The Art of Speedreading People.

It helps if you have a bit of personality background (MBTI or Keirsey temperments esp.), but it's by no means

necessary. What the book gives you is the tools necessary to determine someone's MBTI without knowing them

intimately. It also provides some tips on communication between different types (facts and figures to an NT,

thoughts and feelings to an NF, etc). Once you know a bit about a person's personality, it becomes much easier to

interpret their body language. As an example, if you're dealing with an iNT (introverted intuitive thinker), don't

take a lack of expressiveness to mean that they're bored or not interested in you. That's just their natural

state. With an eSF (extroverted sensing feeler), pay special attention to their body language towards you vs

everyone else, as they're often extremely expressive and driven by how they're feeling at that moment.

[Elk Dreamer]

Check out the DVD In Search

of Fire for a good study of body language orgins. i believe the consulatant on that film was Desmond

Morris.

Elk

[koolking1]

I did a web search on "In

Search of Fire" and came up with nothing. Where is this DVD available please?

[Elk Dreamer]

It used to be at

Blockbusters. It is a classic movie on the first humans finding fire. I may have the title wrong but I think not. It

is quite old but well done. It triggered my instincts so much I came out of the theater checking people out. It was

very primitive
and the behavior was determined by the consultant Desmond Morris. I hope you can find it.
Elk

[Friendly1]

I think the title would be

"Quest for Fire".

I caught part of a CNN broadcast today in which the body language of the Presidential debates

was being discussed with an expert in the field. I think he referred to it as Behavioral Language Science, but he

only used the phrase a couple of times and I didn't think to commit it to memory until after he said it for the

last time.

I am finding that I see a lot of standard flirting body language in movies: girls flipping their

hair, looking down submissively, men assuming a "masculine" stance, etc. Good movies (that is, movies which are

usually well-regarded across the board) seem to have lots of realistic body language. I caught part of "Footloose"

tonight and it had some good body language shots in it.

So, guys, the next time you watch a chick flick, pay

attention to the body language when they show it.

[MOBLEYC57]

MORE BL THOUGHTS....

Because

women are more communicative in general (while men are more analytical), they use both verbal and nonverbal cues

more frequently in their communication with others. A study conducted on the way women and men enter a room

illuminates this. On average, women exhibited 27 distinctive
body movements while men only displayed 12 when

entering a room.

On the surface one might think this difference in initial expressive gestures relates only to

the fact that women are more outwardly expressive of their emotions. But there is actually a much more important

implication:

When observers are asked to rate the estimated power or status of a person entering a room, they

give higher ratings to people who make fewer physical gestures!

As an aside - here's a critical learning for

both men and women ... the less you move about when you enter a room, the more powerful you are perceived to be.

More movement = less status.

The reason for gender differences in expressive tendency can be traced all the way

back to infancy. It seems that baby boys are more likely to be put down early, and are less frequently touched than

are girls. Girls are taught from their earliest stages of development that public displays of affection are

acceptable, while boys are conditioned to keep their emotions and feelings to themselves. That's why women have no

problem hugging others in most any situation while men find it difficult to embrace and show empathy under even the

most private circumstances.

The above is perhaps the most glaring example and serves to highlight the importance

of considering gender in interpreting body language. Generally speaking, women are much more bodily expressive, and

as such, we require a greater intensity of movement in order to make a significant interpretation, as compared to

men.

* Cultural Differences:

If the differences between male and female body language are visible,

differences between diverse cultures are even more striking. In fact, the variations are so profound in cultural

differences that one must examine not only the subtle differences in such gestures as greeting and pointing, but

we'll also delve into behaviors you should adhere to or avoid when visiting particular parts of the world. For the

time being, suffice it to say … what is generally accepted in one culture can be taken as outright obscene in

another!

* Familiarity vs. More Formal Settings (Home vs. Work, etc)

When we are around someone we are

familiar with, our body language naturally becomes more relaxed. Whereas touching and embracing are commonplace

gestures in the presence of friends and family, such
demonstrations of affection and emotion are less acceptable

in the workplace. A normally demonstrative father may become downright stolid when placed in the more rigid

workplace environment.

In a PROFESSIONAL situation where a man and a woman are forced into close proximity, one

might create the appropriate distance by omitting an essential part of the normally seductive body language, or by

making it incomplete. For example, they may turn part of their bodies away from each other to eliminate the flirting

factor. If you were to observe the same body language in a clearly PERSONAL situation however, it might suggest that

the two were angry (or even disgusted) with one another.

* Summary of Contextual Factors:

- Women exhibit

about 2x as many non-verbal clues as do men, so look for more intensity and frequency before you reach your

conclusions.

- Body language varies greatly from culture to culture.

- The interpretation of body language

varies depending upon whether the situation is personal or professional.

To best interpret body language, you

must take into account the culture in which it takes place, the gender of the participants, and whether the

environment is personal or professional.

:type: This wasn't a complete waste was it? :blink: I saw one or two

good points. :sad:

[Nightlife]

My crew wrote an article about

body language you might find interesting.

BODYLANGUAGE


Lets talk little bit of body language, and how

it is connected to your attitude and confidence. We all know, that people communicate with each other on multiple

levels. Words (what we say), is just 7% of our communication when we communicate, the majority of communication is

done with bodylanguage, vocal tones, vocal pitch, movement, and gestures. When I say body language, I mean: pitch of

voice, tonality, speed, how you walk, the way you carry yourself through the world, having eye contact, how fast you

move (hands… etc), shoulders, chest... You may ask why body language is so important. First, because it is how we

sub- communicate with others.

This sub communication is even more important that ever before, because society

created a link between our actions, and how people feel. For example when you are in room, and you feel really

nervous, everyone in the room will pick up that you are nervous, by your actions, tonality, speed of your

movements... Such things are really obvious, even for kids... you can see when somebody is sad, happy, excited,

honest, angry. Look at somebody when he foot is moving up and down. The guy who can't look anybody in the eyes.

Somebody who is hunched over, with her feet together and she trying to not be noticed at all.

Now, we can all

find lots of info about other people by their body language, and find info about females too, the outgoing girl or

woman, she can tell you a zillion things about you, just by your image… the way you move etc. Let me quote my

girlfriend here: “I can see if a guy is good in bed, just by the way he walks.” That is so true. They can tell

everything about you just by the way you look. It comes from experience, of all those years of guys hitting on them.



If you go out dressed like you do not care at all and look like some poor guy. Well you probably do not care

and are poor ... also, if you go out dressed as a money guy, you probably are a Money guy. As for the woman, this

screening by looks and body language is a self-defense mechanism. She really doesn’t want to hook up with some

Low-self-esteem loser, or some boring guy who doesn’t know how to give her some fun in her boring life. So they

screen you, and try to find out as many things about you as possible in a short period of time.

Imagine, if you

are a HOT girl, would you give 30 minutes of your time to some boring geek?? No, you would give him 30 seconds and

then the "buzz off" line.

This is because she already knows that he is a boring, lame-ass guy. But what if some

super-ultra confident guy, who is well dressed, comes into a room, walks slowly towards a hot girl with a smile on

his face, and starts a conversation with a girl... would she reject him??

Probably not.

What if that same

boring geek, comes into room, dressed like money, with full confidence, and alpha, relaxed body language... would it

make any difference to success?? No...

Now let me ask you who the guys who are really confident in our society

are, with an attitude larger then life?? Who are they?? Rockstars, company directors, successful managers, Doctors,

rich kids.... etc.

Now, take a look how they walk, how they sit, how they speak... you'll notice something

really interesting. They are totally calm, like they control TIME, they are not in hurry, the way they move, how

they speak, they radiate with that super-confidence.

Lets take a look what are most common mistakes are when

somebody tries to pick up a girl:

• Talking too fast (to say as much things in shortest period of time) •

Talking too much (to hide your inner state (uncomfortable)) • Not knowing what to say next • Drinking (too become

comfortable) • Asking too many questions (you want to create rapport too soon, as she doesn’t wants you at all) she

knows its cause just the way she looks • Body language wrong (hands connected, foots too close, shoulders down,

leaning in) • Buying her drinks (trying to impress her, or even worst, get her drunk) • Not being comfortable

talking with strangers

Now, all this, does it radiate with any confidence??? Hell no!! Take a look, every

action here radiates with INSECURITY!!

Ok, let’s correct that body language together, here is list of things

that you must FIX…

• Keep hands out of pockets. • Stand with feet wider apart. (Not This II but more like this



I I) • Don't swing around with your hands when you walk. • Never look at the floor (down) when you walk (look

above horizon) • Expose your chest • Shoulders up (in relaxed way) • When you walk, walk slowly, bigger steps, but

slow. • Use lot of space no matter where you are, because it radiates with confidence... • Don't dress in too many

dark colors (just when you want to contrast with something). • Don't be afraid to go into people’s personal space.

Personal space is society bull. It doesn't exist!! If you if give a , its going to exist -- otherwise it won’t! •

Always lean out… trust me, when you lean out, people around you will start to lean in to hear you. • Touch people

when you talk with them (non-sexual) because you must create conversation on all levels! Not just verbal. (Later she

is going to be used to your touch, and that is perfect for the pre-sex stage!) • All your body language must be in

same speed. That means you can’t walk slowly, move with confidence, and then talk fast, like Bart Simpson!! • It

must be at the same speed, otherwise they will tell you that you are 'trying to be cool' (cause you are sending

different messages on different levels... so you are not CONGURANT (he is lying))

One more really important

thing, my friend would tell you "Pick-Up doesn't start when you approach her, it starts when you WAKE UP in

morning!" and that's so true!

A different subject is attraction:

In order to attract a girl or woman, you

must first understand why and how they think. Why we have an effect like Attraction, and why and when it happens.



The easiest way to understand and explain this, is something known as 'Switches theory’. You know those on/off

switches you have in your house for electricity? Now imagine 15 of those on one box. That’s how our minds are...

everything we have in our minds are switches -- Women would have switches such as "Is he attractive? ,Is he Good at

sex? "Off On.

Every girl out there has a different set of switches, cause it really depends on their culture,

their childhood, their beliefs and their age, plus few other minor things...

But there are some common switches

you must turn ON to all girls out there:

--He must be a challenge --Alpha --Interesting --Unpredictable

--Goodaverage looking --Not needy --Is he good at sex? --Does he have a sense for humor? --Rapport --Comfort --Trust



Now, those switches can be either ON or OFF, there is no value in-between... for geeks, it’s all off

What

happens when you switch on most of those switches?? Wow... she starts to be interested in me... actually... she

starts to show IOIs (indication of interest). That reaction is totally normal -- she meets a guy, and this guy is

funny, good looking, interesting, romantic, not needy... etc. of course she is interested in getting to know him

better (read: sleeping with him).

Switching on those switches is also 'demonstrating personality'. You can do

it by storiesroutinesjokes or actions...

You can tell stories where you were romantic, or you go in front of

the bar to watch a sunset... It doesn’t matter, as long as the 'he is romantic' switch is ON.

Every story or

routine you have in your arsenal is saying something to her (switching on some switches.) When designing routines

and stories, first take a look what do you want to convey (that you are not already conveying with your looks,and

body language.)

The easiest way to switch On lot of switches is Body language & the way you behave, dress...



Lets take a look at me for example. If you never saw the way my business partner looks, take a look at the webpage

photo here...



http://www.playboylifestyle.net/glavna1.jpg (Cut and

paste into your browser)

Okay, lets analyze together... what do you think about this guy just from this photo?

Here is what others have said:

• He has lot of confidence • He looks like some badboy or really adventurous guy

• Good looking (average) • He is drinking expensive cocktails, so probably he has some money… • Probably sex is good

with him • Alpha, he doesn’t worry what others think. (leg on table) • Lets also say unpredictable, cause he doesn’t

look like some predictable guy... • Does he look needy?? hmmm... not sure...

Ok, guys, you get my point... I

switched On like 10 switches just by the way I look and behave. Ok switches I haven’t flipped yet:

I don’t have

trust, rapport, I am not romantic, interesting... that’s it!!!!

That means 5 stories for 5 more switches.

That’s like 5 X 5 minutes = 25 minutes to get a girl. Let’s say 35 minutes...

Of course you can convey all

those things through conversation, and that's fine. But it will take 10X longer! This way it works for me, and I am

happy. Badboy

Badboylifestyle

[BlackRook]

Does anyone

know of any resources that will let us know how to interpret body language? What should we look for and so

on?


I looked in Newbie but didn't see anything. Doesn't mean it's not there, I just didn't see it.

[Knuuttipukki]

Just use search option with

"body language" search string...that will lead you to some information...

[Friendly1]

Look at the

Body Language thread (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10265) in the Open Discussion forum. I

and other people suggested some good books there.

[Have_Courage]

##########

[Friendly1]

... Words

(what we say), is just 7% of our communication when we communicate, the majority of communication is done with

bodylanguage, vocal tones, vocal pitch, movement, and gestures. When I say body language, I mean: pitch of voice,

tonality, speed, how you walk, the way you carry yourself through the world, having eye contact, how fast you move

(hands… etc), shoulders, chest...
Your definition of body language is a bit narrow. Body language

includes other factors, such as how we position ourselves in groups, what we do with our eyes, what we do with our

hair, the way we dress, and more.


This sub communication is even more important that ever before,

because society created a link between our actions, and how people feel. For example when you are in room, and you

feel really nervous, everyone in the room will pick up that you are nervous, by your actions, tonality, speed of

your movements...
This kind of unspoken communication is common throughout the animal world. It is not

particular to human behavior (much less MODERN human behavior) at all. It is a well documented survival mechanism

that even social fish exhibit.


If you go out dressed like you do not care at all and look like some poor

guy. Well you probably do not care and are poor ... also, if you go out dressed as a money guy, you probably are a

Money guy.
Not at all. I know guys with lots of money who dress like filthy plumbers. I know guys who

have invested tons of money in clothes and accessories in an attempt to look like they are successful. You have to

see a person over a lengthy period of time to be able to determine what their wardrobe is really saying about

them.

That said, yes, women screen by clothes. But they are looking at more than just how expensive the clothes

are. They are also looking at how well the clothes fit, how well they match, how tasteful (or outrageous) they are,

etc. Women judge the choices men make in how they present themselves.


This is because she already knows

that he is a boring, lame-ass guy. But what if some super-ultra confident guy, who is well dressed, comes into a

room, walks slowly towards a hot girl with a smile on his face, and starts a conversation with a girl... would she

reject him??

Probably not.
Unless she wasn't interested in talking with some super-ultra confident

guy who is well dressed, etc. I've seen women blow off all kinds of guys.


Now let me ask you who the

guys who are really confident in our society are, with an attitude larger then life?? Who are they?? Rockstars,

company directors, successful managers, Doctors, rich kids.... etc.
And out-of-work hustlers, plumbers,

construction workers, truck drivers, clerks, etc. A lot of successful business men WISH they had the confidence

around women they would like to have.

Lets take a look what are most common mistakes are when somebody tries to

pick up a girl:

Ok, let’s correct that body language together, here is list of things that you must FIX…




• Keep hands out of pockets.
Two hands in pockets is considered bad. It is usually taken to mean

you are hiding something or feeling insecure. A man with one hand in a pocket (if he is relaxed and smiling) is

often deemed sexy and attractive, somewhat aloof (look at men who model clothing -- they often have one hand in a

pocket, or one hand grasping a coat lapel -- they are "in touch" with their sense of self and style).





When you walk, walk slowly, bigger steps, but slow.
Walk TOO slow and you'll seem awkward.




• Don't be afraid to go into people’s personal space. Personal space is society bull. It doesn't

exist!!
It ALWAYS exists. Personal space is also called a comfort zone. A confident person will intrude

on another person's comfort zone to see how that person would feel about further intrusions.

So, despite my few

disagreements, I think you and your crew have a pretty good summary of things guys can think about when studying

their own body language.

Now, about your

buddy:

http://www.playboylifestyle.net/glavna1.jpg

(Cut and paste into your browser)

Okay, lets analyze together... what do you think about this guy just from

this photo? Here is what others have said:

• He has lot of confidence • He looks like some badboy or really

adventurous guy

Sorry. To me he looks like an inexperienced, drunken college-age guy trying to impress

people. He wouldn't get far with the girls I know. Not looking or acting like that.

[Nightlife]

Sorry. To

me he looks like an inexperienced, drunken college-age guy trying to impress people. He wouldn't get far with the

girls I know. Not looking or acting like that.
You have your world and I have mine. Guess what ?both are

right.

Your beliefs are how you see the world and they are your reality. I hope they work for you

My

beliefs are how I see the world and they are MY reality.

Mine is definitely more fun is backed by others having

success and great workshop reviews.

[bjf]

<<Sorry. To me he looks like an

inexperienced, drunken college-age guy trying to impress people. He wouldn't get far with the girls I know. Not

looking or acting like that.>>

I agree completely. Sorry, he looks like a tool. But I think there are some

women who wouldn't see past what he is trying to project.

[chococat]

http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/lovesig3.htm




From the Nonverbal Dictionary:


E-Commentary II: "I have a

rather interesting nonverbal situation that has been moving along for almost two years. I met a rather powerful male

political figure who, on our first meeting, engaged in heavy eye contact, lip pouts, palm up displays, open stance

and self touch (back of the head and face) and even at the end of this meeting a quick wink. I encouraged this with

an involuntary head tilt, smile, side glances and the like. I think it was very unusual for both of us to behave

this way. Since this time I have contacted him, in writing, about certain issues to which he has been receptive. I

have also had brief visits with him on several other occasions. On each of these in person meetings, I am

overwhelmed by his visual attention. He attempts to engage me in eye contact that lasts longer than a few seconds,

and I react by gazing away and squinting/grimacing. I would like to be more direct, but the situation is very

overwhelming. Do you think this is somewhat clunky courtship behavior or is it more of a connection to the power

constructs of a political role? This interaction is disquieting, and I would like to figure out what is going on.

Thank you for your help. disquieting, and I would like to figure out what is going on. Thank you for your help."

--K.S. (5/3/01 12:32:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time)

I have experienced this. What on earth is

going on when a man can maintain very intense eye contact like this? It's almost disturbing. Definitely

confusing. No answer is given as to why this happens.

[Marlboro_man]

I think the reason that

both of you are sucessful is because both of you think that you are right. I am not saying either of you are wrong,

but rather what I am saying is that the reason you both are more sucessful then most men is because you both have

the most crucial element CONFIDENCE. I would venture to say that is as much as 2/3's of a woman's decision about

a man. Guys please keep on posting as I have been paying very close attention to this thread and it has taught me a

lot. Also thank you friendly for all the great body language details as I am noting and watching for them when I am

out and I amazed how until I first began reading this post I never noticed any of this stuff. I was as most men are

ignorent to the whole art of body language. Thanks to you I have already read to books from the library about it

and I am going to get a couple more next week. One more question friendly: Do you know of any video's on this

stuff that can help show and teach body language because it is sometime's hard to envision the words that the

authors use and a visual picture would be so much more helpful.

[Marlboro_man]

http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/lovesig3.ht

m (http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/lovesig3.htm)


From the Nonverbal Dictionary:



I have experienced this. What on earth is going on when a

man can maintain very intense eye contact like this? It's almost disturbing. Definitely confusing. No answer is

given as to why this happens.
From my little bit of knowledge on the subject (I have only read 2 books so

far), I have learned that politicians are trained to do this. Why you may ask?
Ask yourself this, when you think

of a politician what do you want to vote for? Your answer is probably someone powerful who can get the job done for

you at whatever level of government they are at.
How did he make you feel when he stared you down? Submissive

right.
How does he do it without coming on too strong? He also throws in friendly, open-ness type signals like

open palms so that although you feels he is above you, you also feels that he is approachable.
There are a few guys

on this forum who know more about this than me (Friendly comes to mind) who can better verify my statements and I

hope they do because I would like to see how much I really have learned over the past couple weeks.:lol:

[chococat]

Marlboro: I definitely felt

submissive! It's *very* effective at eliciting that kind of response. My head tilts automatically, as well.

Maybe I wind up encouraging it more with this kind of behavior (I figured out early on that I am good at showing

that kind of female submission.) That kind of long-term eye contact can nearly put you in a trance. I have to

wonder what it does for the guy or what he is trying to do, if he is not *trained* to prolong eye contact.

[Marlboro_man]

I would say it does the

same thing for the average man. It shows that you have confidence and that you have power which are two things that

a girl looks for because it shows you can be a provider (of course this is usually sub conscience.) It is very

affective from what I have read and I am teaching myself to do it.

[kryptogram]

I would

say it does the same thing for the average man. It shows that you have confidence and that you have power which are

two things that a girl looks for because it shows you can be a provider (of course this is usually sub conscience.)

It is very affective from what I have read and I am teaching myself to do it.
Couldn't agree more -

several years ago a female friend pointed out that I often broke eye contact during conversations - I never noticed

that I did it - Interesting because I've done a fair amount of acting & public speaking where eye contact is so

important. It infuriated her because she felt that I was dismissive/disinterested of what she was saying, which

was not the case. I worked on it and it's made a difference in my personal contact with others and my marriage.

[Friendly1]

Mine is

definitely more fun
You really have no basis for comparsion.

It's enough to say you are satisfied

with what you have and want no more, or that you are not satisfied with what you have and you do want more.

Anything else is just a bit naive.

[Friendly1]

I think the

reason that both of you are sucessful is because both of you think that you are right. I am not saying either of you

are wrong, but rather what I am saying is that the reason you both are more sucessful then most men is because you

both have the most crucial element CONFIDENCE. I would venture to say that is as much as 2/3's of a woman's

decision about a man.
Well said.

[Friendly1]

http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/lovesig3.ht

m (http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/lovesig3.htm)


From the Nonverbal Dictionary:



I have experienced this. What on earth is going on when a

man can maintain very intense eye contact like this? It's almost disturbing. Definitely confusing. No answer is

given as to why this happens.
Politicians are constantly courting people. They are not always interested

in romance and sex (even Bill Clinton courts people for other reasons).

Establishing that kind of eye contact is

a means of testing the other person's resolve, integrity, and strength. It is a means of asserting control and

dominance. And it is a way of ferreting out intense interest.

Guys on the make and politicians all follow the

same basic rules for manipulating people through body language.

[Marlboro_man]

Wow, I am starting to

understand body language thanks to friendly and the books I have read. Thanks again friendly. How long did it take

you to become so comfortable with your abilities to read body language?

[Knuuttipukki]

I ordered some body

language related books yesterday. Anxiously waiting for their arrival now...

[Marlboro_man]

Let me know how they work

out for ya and which you would recommend.

[Have_Courage]

##########

[Friendly1]

Wow, I am

starting to understand body language thanks to friendly and the books I have read. Thanks again friendly. How long

did it take you to become so comfortable with your abilities to read body language?
Maybe six months of

reading those books I recommended in the Body Language

Thread (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10265) and constant vigilance and practicing ever since. I have also read a few articles on body language on

the Web. They are not nearly as helpful as the books, but there are a few gems out there.

Learning to tune into

body language has opened up a whole new world for me.

[chococat]

Are you guys finding that

pheros increase mirroring tenfold or so? This is one of my biggest "clues" as far as the effectiveness of EW is

concerned. I love picking up my drink to see if the guy does it, too. ;)

[BlackRook]

Thanks for the info!!

[Friendly1]

Are you guys

finding that pheros increase mirroring tenfold or so? This is one of my biggest "clues" as far as the effectiveness

of EW is concerned. I love picking up my drink to see if the guy does it, too. ;)
My use of pheromones

made women who were interested in me project that interest more "loudly" (through body language) than previously.

The chief reason for why I prefer the OD-level and near-OD-level applications is that the body language is much more

pronounced. So, it makes it easier for me to figure out who is interested.

Of course, sometimes, the experience

is just overwhelming for the girl, but I have found I'm not really into the 18-year-olds anyway.

[bjf]

I tend to keep very long eye contact

with attractive women. I do it because I love looking in their eyes, so why would I want to look away?

I'm

also able to draw long eye contact as well. Just the way you look into their eyes can signal that you are not a

threat.

[chococat]

Let's hope this guy liked my

eyes. ;) It gave me the impression that he was interested in me, and it definitely increased my interest in

*him*.

If you can pull off the prolonged eye contact and seem friendly and confident, it's a huuuuuuuuge

turnon.

What kind of body language do the women you like give off? Any certain postures you've noticed that

are appealing and approachable?

[TRock]

i've been experimenting lately

with body language. on days when i'm projecting alpha body language i get alot more looks than on days when i walk

with hands in my jacket and try to be comfortable because it's cold outside. nothing is done different except for

my body language. i'm starting to realize how important body language is.

[Friendly1]

What kind of

body language do the women you like give off? Any certain postures you've noticed that are appealing and

approachable?
Girlish, sexy actions turn me on. It's hard to describe in general terms. But here are a

few examples:

When I was dating my ex-wife, we went horseback riding one day and had to go down a steep

embankment. There were tall weeds on either side of the trail, so she drew her legs up behind her on the horse.

She looked so cute and -- to be blunt -- it showed off her butt in a great way.

You don't want to seem goofy.

It has to appear to be natural, almost without thought. For all I know, my ex did that intentionally just to get me

turned on (it worked).

When a girl is dancing with me, if she looks down submissively (not to check her feet,

but to show submission), that is cool.

Of course, if she brushes against me, holds my hand, stands close beside

me, and in other ways acts totally comfortable and excited to be in my presence, then I get turned on, too.

And

I like it when they come up out of nowhere and run their hands down my back. The butt grabs are a little awkward

(especially when they chicken out and run away after getting my attention).

What makes me turn away (and this

probably just me, as I am not into casual sex) is when the women go out of their way to show me the goods,

especially by bending over in front of me (away from me, to show me their butts). Is that a physical turnon? Yes.

But it just looks slutty, and I lose interest quickly when a woman does that.

Another trick I don't like is

when the women stand in the middle of the dance floor and try to dance sexily for me. Usually, they are drunk when

they do that, and they make it obvious they are trying to entice me by almost glaring at me.

The difference

between these last two examples and what I said about the girls dancing WITH me is that the women I don't like send

their aggressive signals too soon. They act like they'll give it away to the lucky guy of the night, and I'm not

interested in being that guy. But if they wait until I've made the first move by talking to them, dancing with

them, whatever, and THEN start to come on a little -- that makes it feel a little more personalized, and it's a

definite turnon.


So, if a woman is out on the floor dancing with someone, and she smiles a lot and runs her

hand through her hair because she is having a good time, and if she looks like she knows how to dance, then I want

to dance with her. Then she can turn on the juice for me (if I haven't seen her try it on other guys first).



It's all about timing.

[eric_pelletier_tw]

i got to get some of

that stuff togetter looks,body language, cash to go out :P

i find that some women overdo it & it gets me turned

on but then i get that dirty feeling ... "she's too dirty must be f/ing tons of guys ... bad for healt..."

[Marlboro_man]

I feel the need to bump

this thread up for all the newbies joining the forums. I found this thread one of the most important individual

threads I read when first joining this site. Hey Newbies learn this stuff and watch the difference between when

wearing mones and when not wearing mones and you will find how each mone works for you.

[Friendly1]

Curiously, I noticed my copy of

John Molloy's Dress For Success sitting out and decided to thumb through it again. Turning to the chapter

on how to dress for women, I read this section:


WHAT SELF-CONFIDENCE REALLY MEANS TO WOMEN

Most women

will say that they are attracted to men who exude what they call self-confidence, but what my follow-up research has

shown is that what they are talking about is more akin to arrogance.

In testing in singles bars on New York's

Upper East Side, I used two men who had tested equally sexy in the eyes of most women. When I asked the men to act

in a self-confident or assured manner, the relationship between their demeanor and the way any women were attracted

to them was practically zero. Yet when I told the men to act arrogantly, they were far more successful in

being judged sexy and attractive. I do not know the meaning of this, and am not sure I want to find out, but take

it for what it is worth.
Molloy actually writes a LOT about body language, but he focuses on the

sub-language of body appearance and presentation. His comments about the bar in New York, however, should probably

be taken with a grain of salt, because New York has a reputation for being a highly predatory environment. The

Upper East Side bar may have been a very competitive location, and women would have to naturally select stronger

(more arrogant) males in order to be sure they had good men.

However, his test subjects could simply have been

acting cocky and funny, not truly arrogant. We just don't know enough about what happened to say much about it.

But the one conclusion we CAN safely make is that, in any environment where you are competing for attention with

other men, how you project yourself speaks loudly and you want to project yourself with more dominance and

self-assurance than other men. That may indeed come down to being arrogant for a while.

It calls for some

experimentation.

On a possibly related note, I have noticed more women and young girls (I mean underage teenage

girls) expressing interest in me recently when I've been in a less-than-rosy mood. I don't mean I was angry. I

just mean I wasn't smiling and chirpy-happy. I was a bit dark and moody.

In the dance classes I help with,

I'm now finding myself trying to get away from several teenage girls because they keep trying to close distance

with me. I don't know if they would go so far as to rub their breasts on me, but I'd rather not find myself in

that awkward position. About all I can figure is that, as the class sizes increase, I get a little more arrogant.



I have been that way all my life. The more people I deal with, the more overwhelming (and arrogant) I become. It

is a way of standing out from the crowd. It has its advantages in that people will respect me in some ways, but it

also tends to draw lines I would rather not draw. I have more than once found myself isolated from the group

because people didn't know how to deal with me.

Knowing I have this effect on people, and knowing when I

subconsciously begin to behave that way, I have a chance with each new group to put a stop to it. But it is such a

deeply ingrained defensive behavior that it is hard to control.

And that may have a lot to do with all the

interest I had from girls when I was much younger and couldn't figure out why they were interested. It sure

wasn't because I was walking up to them and asking for their phone numbers.

[Marlboro_man]

Friendly, If you were to

rank these books in order of importance what order would you buy them in. I have already bought and read body

language by julius fast but want progress to your level in an economic way. Also I am going to donate ya a 100 pts

for your hard work on this forum topic because I feel it is very relevant to what most people are trying to

accomplish with mones.

[Friendly1]

I like I Know What You're

Thinking best, but Don Steele's Body Language Secrets gets down to the courtship and dating basics right

away. The biggest drawback to his book is that almost half of it seems to be an ad for his other books.

After

those two, the rest can be read in any order you please. Freeway of Love is also focusing on courtship and

romance, but the general purpose books have a lot to teach about reading and projecting body language.

[phersurf]

I read and studied several of

the respected body language books. I then applied what I learned thinking it was going to allow me to find the women

that were attracted to me and it would be a "sure thing" to approach these women, take them out and become intimate

with them.

What I didn't know is that once I approached them I was doing so many things to destroy that

attraction that my success rate was no better (very few men are physically attractive enough to become intimate with

women based on looks alone).

I have since discovered that it doesn't matter if a woman has any kind of

intitial attraction to me, I can still approach her and have a fairly good chance of creating attraction with her.

I'm the one doing the choosing.

From a purelly intelectual excersise, reading body language is kind of fun.

But from a technique to pick up women, it is only slightly useful.

[ohmmmm]

If anyone is interested, the

titles listed above are available on Ebay at a substantial discount to the retail price. Look for the most recent

edition if there are multiple sources.

Best wishes...:angel:

[OCP]

This book lost my attention in the first 10 pages. The book really said nothing at that point and I put it away.

Did I miss something? Should I give the book a second chance? Does she really have anything to say that is

useful?

[Marlboro_man]

Well clearly you learned

how to read that body language to study others but I believe you were missing the most obvious and usefull part and

that is how to portray your own body language to show the confidence they desire. Your own body language is where

this stuff is most useful in meeting women but it also helps to know whats on their mind when you do approach them

to see whether you are advancing favorably or wasting your time.

I read and studied several of the

respected body language books. I then applied what I learned thinking it was going to allow me to find the women

that were attracted to me and it would be a "sure thing" to approach these women, take them out and become intimate

with them.

What I didn't know is that once I approached them I was doing so many things to destroy that

attraction that my success rate was no better (very few men are physically attractive enough to become intimate with

women based on looks alone).

I have since discovered that it doesn't matter if a woman has any kind of

intitial attraction to me, I can still approach her and have a fairly good chance of creating attraction with her.

I'm the one doing the choosing.

From a purelly intelectual excersise, reading body language is kind of fun. But

from a technique to pick up women, it is only slightly useful.

[phersurf]

Marlboro, You're probably

right.

At the time I studied it I didn't focus on that part of my game. I was one of those guys that

thought there was a magic bullet for picking up women. I figured that some combination of seeing a woman with the

right body language and using the right pickup line would do it.

Since studying David D and Keanu Jager, I

figured that my whole game is internal. But I still didn't need to force myself to project the right body

language,it just came naturally after being in the feild and using their techniques.

[Friendly1]

This book lost my

attention in the first 10 pages. The book really said nothing at that point and I put it away. Did I miss something?

Should I give the book a second chance? Does she really have anything to say that is useful?
While I

don't agree with Phersurf about body language being only marginally useful for meeting women, I do believe you have

to be in the right frame of mind to maximize the benefit you'll gain from it.

So, that said, the value that

particular book, or ANY book, offers you really depends on your priorities. Each of those authors has a different

take on the subject. Some of them deal with sex, seduction, romance, courtship, whatever more than the others.

Some of them are better writers than others.

If you just want a quick checklist of things to look for, you can

actually get those off the Web without spending a dime. But the Web freebie info doesn't educate you in the

subtleties of understanding and interpreting body language.

Ultimately, all you get from it is an educated guess

about a person's state of mind. There are many uncertain moments, and to deal with those you have to do something

to elicit more action from whomever you are observing, or else be very, very patient.

But these people are not

like the neurolinguistic programming advocates, whose books try to tell you how to manipulate someone into achieving

a certain state of mind and, from there, taking a certain action. The body language experts are trying to observe

some ethical boundaries that the neurolinguistic experts don't share.

And I am not condemning the

neurolinguists. I am just pointing out that the kinesiologists draw some lines that the neurolinguists go past. I

am pretty sure that kinesics is important (or should be) in neurolinguistic programming.

[phersurf]

All I'm sayng is that if you

wait for a woman to show you some sort of signs of interest, you're decreasing the number of women you might be

able to create attraction with to those few that are already attracted to you (unless you look like a model).



Very few men are physically attractive enough to have most women instantly attracted to them based on looks

alone. Luckily for men, women base less of their choices on physical attractiveness alone (not that it's not

important to them). Women are more intersted in the type of attitudes and behaviors in men that demonstrate high

status, relaxed confidence, lack of neediness, that he is in demand and could care less if she is intersted in him

or not. Yes, using body language to help comunicate these is imortant, but just getting out in the field and

approaching women and becoming more confortable and confident automatically improves body language.

All I'm

telling you is that since I've been using David D's and Keanu Jager's info, I've approached, dated and slept

with more beautiful women in the last 6-8 months than in the previous 10 years. And I don't use any NLP (other than

improving myself) or other manipulative acts to do this.

And tell me, what's more manipulative, acting like

(and becoming) the type of man that women are attracted to at instinctual level or taking a woman to an expensive

restaurant, buying her gifts, doing nice things for her in an attempt to get her to like you (you don't think an

attractive woman knows what you're trying to do when you do these things?).

[Friendly1]

All I'm sayng

is that if you wait for a woman to show you some sort of signs of interest, you're decreasing the number of women

you might be able to create attraction with to those few that are already attracted to you (unless you look like a

model).
I cannot agree with that at all. Women express their interest in a man very quickly. It is an

instinctive reaction, just like the way we gawk. It's just that most guys don't recognize those signs of

interest.

You cannot "create" attraction in a woman, despite what DeAngelo and others say. All you can do is

trip trigger switches that she already has. That is, she is attracted to certain qualities, and you either show her

you have those qualities or you don't.

In study after study, women consistently do NOT pick physically

attractive men over other men unless everything else is equal: status, income, and persnality.

What women find

attractive in men are confidence, achievement, and security. Looks are not anywhere near important as demeanor.



No matter how successful you feel you are today, improve your knowledge of body language, and you'll see how much

more success you can experience.

Women use their body language to communicate to men all the time. Most guys

have no idea of how many opportunities they let slip by.

[phersurf]

I don't think you read my whole

post. Most of what you said is just a rewording of what I said.

Again (to repeat, to reiterate, to restate),

I've approached women that did not even look at me let alone give me any signs of interest, and through my

behaviors and what I've said (cocky and funny), they started showing signs of interest (yes, through their body

language). I ABSOLUTELY created attraction in these women (OK, I trigered switches, symantics)!

If you wait

for them to show body language signs of interest, then you are limiting the number of women you approach.

[Friendly1]

I don't think

you read my whole post. Most of what you said is just a rewording of what I said.
I read your post. I'm

just disagreeing with you more than you realize. You CANNOT create attraction in anyone who is not already

attracted to you in some way.

There is no "waiting for them to show body language" to you. The body language is

in action before you ever open your mouth to say something cocky and funny.

You just have to tune into it to see

it.

[TRock]

You CANNOT

create attraction in anyone who is not already attracted to you in some way.

it's really hard to create

attraction in a girl you already know but during cold approaching, you can create attraction from a girl who isn't

attracted to you if your game is tight through manupulation techniques or c&f.

[phersurf]

You CANNOT

create attraction in anyone who is not already attracted to you in some way.



Oh...now I have

to disagree with you, in a major way!!

Why are you so adamant in your belief that it is not possible to

create attraction in a woman? I've seen it happen before my eyes, and better, yet have done it.

Haven't

you ever seen a hot woman with a guy several steps below her in looks?

In the last 6-8 months I've had more

than one woman say to me things like, "I don't know why I'm with you, you're not my type. I usually go out with

men that are (taller, younger, richer) and you're none of them." Again, these are women that never even saw me

until I approached them. So they had no initial attraction to me. I didn't wait for them to show me any kind of

positive body language (although after talking to them for 10 minutes they sure were!).

Mens' and women's

brains work much differently when it comes to attraction. All men have to do is see a hot woman (whatever that is to

the individual), women have to see the right behaviors of status, confidence, etc to be demonstrated and they become

attracted (unless you look like Brad Pitt).

[Holmes]

You CANNOT create

attraction in anyone who is not already attracted to you in some way.

Meaning either a) that looks

are, in fact, the Master Key or b) that proper non-verbal communication can polish the most unsightly of

turds.

One of the two?

[phersurf]

Meaning either a)

that looks are, in fact, the Master Key or b) that proper non-verbal communication can polish the most unsightly of

turds.

One of the two?

It's the proper non-verbal communication I'm talking about.



An OK looking guy with the right non-verbal communication is much more attractive to most women than a great

looking guy that is a wussy (except maybe if she is only looking for a one night stand).

[belgareth]

I think the latter is true, at

least in my case. Not tall, not dark and can't tan, average looking, partially bald and grey haired. About the only

part of my looks that could be above average are the way I move (lots of marshal arts training has it's benefits)

and my eyes which are bright blue and get frequent comments. Yet women in their late 20s and up seem to find me

attractive. It's hard to attribute my results to anything but my attitude which is supremely confident and

unconcerned with anybody's opinion and almost always cheerful.

What makes me think Phersurf has a point is

that they usually don't start showing an interest in me until they've been around me for a while. It isn't an

instant attraction but something that seems to surface over a few minutes time. Mones probably help but they aren't

that powerful.

[Friendly1]

it's really hard

to create attraction in a girl you already know but during cold approaching, you can create attraction from a girl

who isn't attracted to you if your game is tight through manupulation techniques or c&f.
You can stir the

pot, but you don't get to put the ingredients in.

[Friendly1]

Oh...now I have

to disagree with you, in a major way!!

Why are you so adamant in your belief that it is not possible to

create attraction in a woman? I've seen it happen before my eyes, and better, yet have done it.



Because you cannot induce another person to change their nature in the space of a few moments. You're taking

gimmicks from seduction gurus and using them without understanding what is really going on.

These girls all had

the capacity to find you attractive before you said or did anything. All you can do is turn on the juice and let

them feel the current.

You cannot make them find you attractive. You cannot create attraction in them. You

cannot alter their psychological makeup.

All you can do is enhance whatever natural attributes you possess which

most if not all women would find attractive.

And reading body language would speed up the process for you. I

assure you, there are plenty of days where I cannot handle all the comeons from girls and women. I say that with

all modesty because most of them don't wait for me to "create attraction".

They size you up in about 2 seconds.

It takes a girl far less time to determine if she finds a guy attractive than it does a guy to make that decision

about her. That is not an exaggeration. It's been established through studies which measured things like

eye-movement, body actions, and more.

So, by the time you're figuring out how you're going to be cocky and

funny, she has already decided whether to give you a chance to TRY to be cocky and funny.

It happens THAT

quickly.

[phersurf]

[/b]



Because you cannot induce another person to change their nature in the space of a few moments. You're taking

gimmicks from seduction gurus and using them without understanding what is really going on.

I'm not

inducing them to change their behavior. I'm utilizing the way a woman's limbic brain works and communicating with

that part. I'm actually using her natural behavior to bypass her rational brain.


These girls all had

the capacity to find you attractive before you said or did anything. All you can do is turn on the juice and let

them feel the current.

You're right. They do have the capacity to find me attractive, if I behave in

the ways that communicate with her limbic brain that I'm a high status, confident male. No amount of appealing to

her rational brain by trying to convince her what a great guy I am will work.


You cannot make them

find you attractive. You cannot create attraction in them. You cannot alter their psychological

makeup.

Yes you can, yes you can! You've never heard a woman say something like, "I don't know why

I'm dating this guy, initially I found him unatactive". Or how about the opposite, "that guy was so good looking,

but he brought me flowers on the first date. Gross! That's his last date" I heard 2 women say this exact thing in a

restaurant the other day. It seems to me that these woman's psychological makeup was altered.


All

you can do is enhance whatever natural attributes you possess which most if not all women would find attractive.



And reading body language would speed up the process for you. I assure you, there are plenty of days where I

cannot handle all the comeons from girls and women. I say that with all modesty because most of them don't wait

for me to "create attraction".

They size you up in about 2 seconds. It takes a girl far less time to

determine if she finds a guy attractive than it does a guy to make that decision about her. That is not an

exaggeration. It's been established through studies which measured things like eye-movement, body actions, and

more.

So, by the time you're figuring out how you're going to be cocky and funny, she has already decided

whether to give you a chance to TRY to be cocky and funny.

It happens THAT quickly.

Actually

it's about 7 seconds. But again you're talking about physical attractiveness. This is much less imprtant to women

than it is to men.

I once saw a guy (a student of a guy named Mystery) that is 40 lbs overweight, about

5'7" and about 42 years old approach three 20 something hoties at a club. As he approached I saw a look of (almost)

disgust from a couple of the women. I'm thinking to myself, "this guy is going to get shot down in flames!" I

watched him have them laughing within minutes and he walked away with their phone numbers. About an hour later I saw

him in the corner of the club making out with one of them!

That's it I'm done. I'm never going to comvince

you of the stuff I've seen work right in front of me and by me. Maybe you're just one of those lucky guys that

looks like a model and has women approaching him so none of this is neccessary for you. But for the other 85% of

us....

[bjf]

Women are

..... and could care less if she is intersted in him or not.



I've approached





how do you TRY and create attraction and then at the same time convey that you are not

interested in whether they are intersted?

also, I've found playing it cool and don't care leads to nothing

but the "no balls" impression.

And.....(I feel like Bart right now) does Mick Reeves think it is ok to be

show that you give a sh!t if you are confident and smooth in your chase.

[Friendly1]

I'm not

inducing them to change their behavior. I'm utilizing the way a woman's limbic brain works and communicating with

that part. I'm actually using her natural behavior to bypass her rational brain.
You just think you're

doing that. Girls know they like guys with attitude and humor. They tell men that ALL THE TIME. I know I have read

tons of roundup articles and surveys where women reveal their "deepest secrets" about how guys get them.

Not

coincidentally, the guys like DeAngelo are preaching the same thing: be confident, a little funny, a little

arrogant. So, the girls know what you are doing. You're not bypassing anything.



Yes you can, yes

you can! You've never heard a woman say something like, "I don't know why I'm dating this guy, initially I found

him unatactive".
She knows why. Women say one thing but mean another. They'll all tell you that.




Actually it's about 7 seconds.
It's about 2-3 seconds, but why quibble? They size guys up

faster than guys size them up (it takes us about ten times as long to make an equivalent assessment of them).



And, no, I am NOT talking about physical attractiveness. Women take in the whole picture.


That's it

I'm done. I'm never going to comvince you of the stuff I've seen work right in front of me and by me.


You're not looking at the whole picture. You've zeroed in on a few ideas and gimmicks and you haven't studied

the psychology behind them. So, no, you're NOT going to convince me. I have no doubt that what you're doing

works better for you than what you were doing before. Never doubted that.

I'm just saying that if you pay more

attention to body language, you will empower yourself in ways you cannot yet imagine. Try it. Body language helps

in all aspects of life. It's good to know if you do or don't have a rapport with someone, especially someone

you've just met who can make or break a deal you're working on.

It goes well beyond sex.

[phersurf]

A lot of the stuff I'm talkng

about (and where David D gets much of his stuff) can be found in these books.

The Mating Mind : How Sexual

Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature by GEOFFREY MILLER

The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human

Mating by David M. Buss

The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley

These

aren't gimicks, it's a way of being. They're ideas based on the scientific studies. Just like lower animals have

to go step by step through a mating ritual (if one step is skipped, the ritual ends), humans do to. David D just

teaches men how to carry out their part of it.

Women have an architype buried in their brain of how a good

choice for a mate should behave. When a guy comes along that acts like that, she can't help but be

atracted.

About 2 weeks ago I was in a bar with a freind and I started busting on this attractive married 30

something (I had no intention of following through). I had her really going. SHe was giving me all the positive body

language (see, I do use it. I just don't wait for a woman to exhibit it before I approach her), touching my arm

continually, laughing and saying things like "oh, you're terrible!" and "you'e a jerk!" in a mock angry tone of

voice, flicking her hair, etc. All of a sudden, her expression changes and she almost looks scared and blurts out

out of nowhere, "I'm married!". She excuses herself to go to the restroom, but minutes later I see her looking for

her freind. I see her grab her freind and rush her out the door. I was stunned, it was like a switch was thrown in

her mind.

If I wasn't communicating with her limbic brain (and creating an intense attraction) and bypassing

her rational mind, how would you explain her behavior?

[TRock]

I'm just

saying that if you pay more attention to body language, you will empower yourself in ways you cannot yet imagine.

Try it. Body language helps in all aspects of life. It's good to know if you do or don't have a rapport with

someone, especially someone you've just met who can make or break a deal you're working on.

It goes well

beyond sex.
i agree completely with this. david d talks about subcommunication alot but he emphasizes on

you projecting the right sub communication.

what Phersurf said is on point too. the right subcommunication

creates attraction in a woman, while the wrong subcommunication signals wussy or beta male. when it comes down to

it, we're all animals. the last 100 years can't change millions of years of evolution of what the archetypal

attrative male is to a woman. so yes you can create attraction if you are the archetypal male that phersurf is

talking about which is the same subcommunication that friendly is talking about.

[Chemist]

Well, this thread is mad

long, so I read the original post and a whole bunch of random threads, but not all of them.

For the most

part, I've discovered that many of these books only have served to make me think too much while I'm in a public

place doing my thing. Thinking too much in a social situation with a new potential only serves to usually mess

things up.

This is what I do.

I constantly survey the room - looking for people who are staring at

me. If there's a girl staring at me, I will meet her gaze and keep it - this is usually for about 4-5 seconds

although it seems longer. Once she looks away, I will look away and never meet her eyes again - however, through my

periphery I see if she tries to look back at me.

Almost every public place that I'm at, I usually have 3-4

friends who are girls who are also knockouts - I'm always with one of them making them laugh out loud and

attracting the attention of other people around me. Being seen as cool with some good looking chicks goes along way

towards comfort. Being seen as cool with the friend of a hot chick automatically raises comfort in the eyes of the

hot chick.

Later, I'll run into her and EVERY SINGLE TIME she is open to a conversation. Half the time its

her initiating the conversation and half the time its me. The subject of conversation is not important - its the

dynamics of the exchange - it should be playful.

My conversations are always funny - I am purposefully

sarcastic (but so extreme that she knows I don't mean it). I'll tease her and make her laugh. ALL THE TIME I AM

ONLY STARING RIGHT INTO HER EYES - not around the room and not at any other part of her. The point of making her

laugh is so she starts slapping or poking me. When she does this, I keep on being funny and do not take her physical

contact as an invitation to reciprocate. All she is telling me is she is comfortable around me - she's not saying

put your hands on me too. If she isn't laughing, I don't want her. It means she is a bitch or preoccupied with

something temporarily.

A lot of the body launguage crap I read, although interesting, is too much info and

encourages me to read something that isn't really there. I have discovered that if she laughs a lot when we speak,

thats all that I need. That's an in and all it takes after that is to increase my desirability in her eyes - and

that's a whole another thread - and it has very little to do with body language - but more a confident holistic

whole that is independant of the woman.

I will say this, if your conversation is mostly about you trying to

convince the girl what a great catch you are, you're not going to succeed all that often. If you like to have your

hands all over a new potential, you're also not going to succeed all that often unless you're Richard Gere and a

millionaire. Girls like a mystery - they like to discover clues along the way - give them what they want. When you

tell them all about yourself right way, its like telling someone that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father and

Leia is the sister. You have robbed them of the pleasure of 3 movies - and thats what the girl wants - the journey -

not the destination. Guys want the destination - help her get there, but let her enjoy the movie first.

Just

be funny. You don't know how? Go to Border's and get a book. It worked for me and I'm really not all that

good-looking. Funny goes along way towards increasing desirability and its one thing we all have direct control

over.

If you're not funny, then this e-mail won't help you. Sorry for wasting your time. Girls expecting a

cheesy pickup line need not apply.

[TRock]

^ i agree with everything you say

except for not touching her. kino or light touching (not needy touching) is essential when talking to a girl.

[Friendly1]

Well, this

thread is mad long, so I read the original post and a whole bunch of random threads, but not all of them.

For

the most part, I've discovered that many of these books only have served to make me think too much while I'm in a

public place doing my thing. Thinking too much in a social situation with a new potential only serves to usually

mess things up.

This is what I do.
You're right, and some people call this syndrome "Paralysis by

Analysis". However, if you can discipline yourself to just do the observing and analyzing at different times from

when you do the actual socializing, you can develop a reflexive talent for doing the observing and analyzing

subconsciously.

That is why, when I first started talking about studying body language here, I advised people to

just go out and observe.


I constantly survey the room - looking for people who are staring at me. If

there's a girl staring at me, I will meet her gaze and keep it - this is usually for about 4-5 seconds although it

seems longer. Once she looks away, I will look away and never meet her eyes again - however, through my periphery I

see if she tries to look back at me.
Standard courtship behavior, and it's good that you mastered this

technique on your own. This is the first step, and it is where so many guys just mess up without ever realizing

it.

Now, I agree with pretty much everything you said up to this point -- good technique and all. No need to

quote it.


A lot of the body launguage crap I read, although interesting, is too much info and encourages

me to read something that isn't really there.
Let me emphasize again that only a small portion of these

resources is really directly applicable to meeting and getting to know women. Body language doesn't stop at

courtship and mating. It extends throughout our relationships with other people and with animals.

Master the

skills of reading body language, and you will benefit from them in the workplace, with your family, with your

friends, and when you meet complete strangers or deal with crowds (yes, there is even body language which is

specific to crowds).

No one here is wrong to NOT want to learn more about body language. I just feel it has

made me a more well-rounded individual, and I believe everyone who takes the time to study it would equally benefit,

if not more so.

[Friendly1]

^ i agree with

everything you say except for not touching her. kino or light touching (not needy touching) is essential when

talking to a girl.
Not to argue with you about the benefit of controlled touching, but here is an

interesting aside to a lot of the guys who want to know how to tell if a girl is interested.

Get her talking,

get her smiling, get her laughing if you can. DO NOT TOUCH HER. Wait to see if she touches you first. If she

does, SHE IS MOST LIKELY INTERESTED.

After that, do the Kino thing if you must, but if you're not sure even

when she is laughing and smiling, then just wait and see if she accidentally brushes against you. It's usually not

accidental, and is usually a very, very positive sign of interest.

[Chemist]

This thread is taking a life of its

own.

I make a woman laugh and MOST OF THE TIME, they will start slapping me and poking me. IT DOES NOT MEAN

THEY WANT TO SLEEP WITH ME. It means they haven't put me out of the running yet. It means they are comfortable,

they find my company interesting, and it's a green light - but the finish line is way up ahead in the distance.



The important thing to decide at this point is if I just want to have sex with her or so I want something

for the future.

If I just want to have sex with her, then touching back might be the thing to do - do that

kino crap. However, most of the time, that isn't what I want - in that case - touching her back is THE WRONG THING

TO DO. It confounds signals and sometimes inhibits her. If its done right, she will eventually be the one taking my

clothes off - because she is gaga over me (this takes weeks). In many cases, touching her at the wrong time is like

driving through road construction - a slowdown of traffic.

Although I believe body language is important, its

not as important as some would have you believe when in comes to women and their games. If it's done right, its

pretty obvious she's interested - she will be laughing all the time - at seemingly unfunny statements - and

eventually she will be calling me and acting all goofy.

Ok- getting ahead of ourselves.

Bottom line,

is decide what you want and then do the right things to acheive that goal. I don't normally do kino - that doesn't

work for my goal, although I acknowledge it has worked for others I have personally seen.

[Friendly1]

Although I

believe body language is important, its not as important as some would have you believe when in comes to women and

their games. If it's done right, its pretty obvious she's interested - she will be laughing all the time - at

seemingly unfunny statements - and eventually she will be calling me and acting all goofy.
And you'll be

reading her body language all along. :)

I don't recommend that anyone get hung up on body language. It is a

wonderful thing to understand when you get to the point where you can laugh and interact with people and just KNOW

what their state of mind is and who they are interested in.

A friend of mine, who is somewhat older than me,

lives with his girlfriend who is just a few years younger than me (I think she is 40-41). Nonetheless, my friend,

call him "Bill", goes out with girls in their 20s. He does pretty well with them.

Last night he introduced me

to "Jennifer". She was a total knockout. Fortunately, I had my own young lady coming to join me, so I didn't have

to feel like a third wheel for long. But Jennifer kept her body positioned facing me all evening. When I danced

with her a couple of times, she really, really got into it. I could tell she was a little turned on.

I made

sure I gave my own friend special attention, and I made sure I gave Jennifer some extra space when I danced with

her. Jennifer probably understood what was going on, but she was still flirting with me.

All I know for sure is

that Jennifer was enjoying herself and she was mirroring my sitting position throughout the night. So, she was more

into me than into Bill. But then, she already knew she had Bill's interest. She may have only wanted to see if

she could hook me, too.

In a situation like that, I put my friendship with Bill first and my interest in the

other girl second. But it may have worked out in my favor, as the other girl, who sat next to Jennifer, clearly saw

who was and was not interested in me (and there were quite a few girls sitting around the table).

If my girl

looked bored, I took her on the dance floor. If she looked like she was engaged in conversation with someone else,

I ignored her (she is quite beautiful, and when I was younger I would have just stared at her -- big NO NO, guys).



I didn't spend time analyzing what these girls were doing. I just focused on having a good time, but my

knowledge of body language helped me figure out what I needed to be doing with whom and when so that no one was

feeling left out (if they wanted my attention), no one was feeling creeped out by me, and everyone had a good time

while interacting with me.

That is what it is all about. Improving our natural interaction with others. It's

not about being calculating and manipulative, it's not about doing things in a rigid, by-the-book style. It's

being able to tune in and see or sense what is going on and moving with the natural flow in the group.

I have

enough practice that I didn't have to hesitate and think about anything. But I did have to practice (which

involved observing and analyzing what people do for months) in order to reach this point in my social skills.

[CptKipling]

Kino when done correctly can be

powerful, but you have to know what you are doing (when and where to touch).

Touching is generally done by the

dominant male in group situations, and some mild non-sexual touching (perhaps on her arm near her elbow) can show

you are confident and open/friendly, but only if done appropriately.

[Chemist]

Just to give you guys a background.

I am 39 and most of the girls I spend my time with are 18-23. However, there are a few older girls (women?) that I

interact with and whether or not they are 18 or 44, in terms of showing interest and the various stages and dynamics

- it is exactly the same! The older ones just don't bullcrap around - and they talk more forwardly about things -

but its the same thing. The girls act the same and show interest in the same way. The topics of conversation are

different though, but again, its not the actual topic - its the dynamics - if its playful, then I'm in.

Oh

yes, get a phone number guys. That helps too.

A lot of the younger guys actually ask me how I do what I do

and when I tell them - they do not believe it. WHAT - don't touch her??? WHAT - don't talk on the phone for hours

with her???? WHAT - don't be nice to her????

Sometimes I'll tell a guy what will happen if he keeps on

doing what he's doing - and everytime I've been right.

Too bad I didn't figure this stuff out when I was

younger.

BTW - all this stuff I discovered AFTER pheromones. Pheromones was the first concious decision I

made to change myself from a needy, desperate, and pussy of a man (hey, that's what my mother told me was best -

that's good behavior for a son - its BAD behavior for a boyfriend - sorry Mom) into a man that has more women to

spend time with than time on my hands. Pheromones make progress with a girl ever so easier - but it would have

happened on its own regardless. They definately help - its like using a super duper molecular lubricant instead of

vaseline.

[TRock]

^ did you get to where you are

right now on your own discovery or through seduction material?

[Chemist]

I am a academic researcher and thus

it is hard to say where my ideas begin and others end. I spent my whole life observing and trying different things.

I read scientific journals on the dynamics of relationships (someone is researching that right now at my school) and

as any researcher would - I kept a notebook and analyzed what was appropriate (dork, yes I know, but it worked for

me).

Consequently, I ordered EVERY SINGLE SEDUCTION METHOD I COULD that gave me a money back guarentee. The

flaw of most of these methods is that they are too specific and will not work with everybody - either that or they

are too general and do not give enough specifics.

When I ordered each of these methods, I warned the seller

that there is a likelihood these are coming back and I spend a paragraph giving them my background and academic

ideas.

I read every single word - and no one does it right - however from each I found roughly 10%-25% or so

useful - I then would offer whatever percentage of material I found valuable to the seller and offered that money

instead of a full refund. I would also specifically point out where that particular method was flawed and used

specific academic references to back my claims up. The inevitable outcome was a full refund.

With all of

these methods, my own research, and phereomones together, this is where I am now. It works for me - it may not

necessarily work for you. If you want a lasting relationship with someone - the best advice I can give you is to be

funny. If you just want to hook-up with someone, I'll tell you exactly what I tell someone in person, I can't help

you.

What I really mean is that I'm not interested in doing that anymore and thus I haven't had the

resources to figure out how to do that. My time is spent now working on relationships with the girls I know now or

will meet in the near future.

[tounge]

Thanks for the imput Chemist. You

and F-1 had a very informative dialogue and both of you deserve a tip of the hat from this community.

[phersurf]

I disagree with the no touching

unless she touches you first advice.

If, and only if, you have a good rapport built up with her it can be

done. If you have her in that state where she is laughing at all your bad jokes, when you say something that you

both laugh at, at that moment it is OK (more than OK, it builds sexual tension) to give her a light touch on a very

innocuous place. The forearm is a great place. Just do it lightly and don't bring any attention to it.

When

you touch a woman it releases a hormone called oxytocin (same with men but a much lower amount) that actually cause

her to want to be touched more.

But if you don't know exactly when the right time to touch her is, it wil

backfire.

[Chemist]

She must initiate the touch. Then

yes, there is a time to do it back - and its to less of a degree and with less frequency than she does it. Some

girls have actually pointed out that I DON'T EVER TOUCH THEM.

When they do that, they have told me its the

right time. There's other more subtle clues - but actually saying it to me - or taking my hand and putting it

somewhere - there's no misinterpreting that - and she's made the choice.

[Friendly1]

I disagree with

the no touching unless she touches you first advice.You missed my point. I was pointing out, for all the

guys who ask how to determine if a girl is interested, that this is an easy test of interest. I got the impression

from Chemist that he was expanding on that a little. His advice is good.

The comment was not about how to seduce

a girl, but how to tell if what you are doing is having the result you want. Waiting for her to touch you first

gives her the chance to show her interest.

It never hurts to let the girl do some chasing. Her attitude is

usually something along the lines of, it is always good to let the guy chase.

[Friendly1]

When you touch

a woman it releases a hormone called oxytocin (same with men but a much lower amount) that actually cause her to

want to be touched more.Your knowledge of phsyiology (bypassing the limbic brain, touching a woman releases

oxytocin, women secrete less than men) leaves something to be desired.

I have read DeAngelo's limbic brain

nonsense, and that is all it is. The limbic system is crucial to governing emotional states. If you could

successfully bypass the limbic system, you would bypass all of a girl's emotional responses. That means, she would

not care a thing about what you do and would not feel any attraction toward you.

Oxytocin, which IS secreted by

both men and women, is mostly stimulated in women by touch applied to the teats/nipples, as this hormone is critical

for the production of milk. Men don't make milk. Oxytocin seems to help transport sperm in both the male and female

body during reproduction (sex -- specifically during orgasm).

Large amounts of oxytocin are released when a

woman gives birth, too. Oxytocin induces, or helps to induce, labor.

A study published in the July, 1999 issue

of Psychiatry magazine found that women in committed relationships released more oxytocin than women who were

not in committed relationships. So, oxytocin's role in forming long-term relationships is more significant than its

role in forming short-term relationships.

A woman is most likely to release oxytocin after genital stimulation,

during birth, or while nursing. She is more likely to do so during a committed, happy, stable relationship than when

first meeting a man.

In short, you get the benefits of oxytocin after you start mating, not before.

Stress

reduces oxytocin production. So, in that respect, getting a girl to relax helps, but if she is feeling anxious (and

pheromones can do that to her), her stress goes up, not down.

[TRock]

^ david deangelo reference his

limbic brain stuff to books that are out there. he's not actually creating his own ideas but just usings other

people's ideas. i could care less if the research is right or wrong but using the stimulate her limbic brain stuff

does work.

[Holmes]

Your knowledge of

phsyiology (bypassing the limbic brain, touching a woman releases oxytocin, women secrete less than men) leaves

something to be desired.

I have read DeAngelo's limbic brain nonsense, and that is all it is. The limbic

system is crucial to governing emotional states. If you could successfully bypass the limbic system, you would

bypass all of a girl's emotional responses. That means, she would not care a thing about what you do and would not

feel any attraction toward you.

Not sure, but I think his schtick involves communicating directly

with the limbic brain, not bypassing it.

[Friendly1]

It looks like Phersurf and I

are mixing up sources, although I was only addressing his comments about bypassing the limbic brain. I have just now

done a quick search on Google for references to stuff like that and apparently they are made on amateur seduction

forums and in pseudo-scientific web articles.

[phersurf]

If I said that the limbic brain

can be bypassed, I misspoke. I meant to say that through the correct body language, vocal tonalities, attitudes, and

the actual words that a man says will bypass a women's neocortex and talk directly to her limbic brain.

Don't believe me or and "pseudo-scientific" articles, please, please read (Or don't, I don't care. But your views

are NOT based in science) any of the following books. Much of David D's material comes from these (as well as

modelling men that are naturally good with women).

The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human

Nature

The Mating Mind : How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature

Sperm Wars: The

Science of Sex

The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human Mating

Why We Love : The Nature and

Chemistry of Romantic Love


This is a short description of the limbic brain,

Common to all

mammals, it developed about 60 million years ago, after the dinosaurs perished.

It's involved in bonding

needs, including emotions linked to attachment.

It acts as the brain's emotion factory, creating the

chemical messages that connect information into memory.

Retention of information can be significantly

increased when it's presented in an emotionally charged context.

If it is not possible to bypass a woman's

logical brain (neocortex) and stimulate her limbic brain how do you explain the endless stories of women that are

otherwise intelligent, educated, with good jobs taking up with "bad boys", guys that mistreat them (even

physically), cheat on them, etc. It's because these guys, through their attitude and actions, more closely fit the

ancient architype of what a high status alpha male is supposed to be. And no amount of her tying to convince herself

logically that he is bad for her, will break that deep attraction she has for him.

One last thing, David D

does not teach gimics or tricks to seduce women (like Ross Jeffries). Most of his video program is all about the

inner game. Becomming a better man that will eminate the kind of energy and attitude that naturally attracts

women.

If you have any kind of open mind, you'd get his Advanced DVD series and watch it. Then send it back,

it won't cost you a dime and you may actually learn something.

[Friendly1]

If it is not

possible to bypass a woman's logical brain (neocortex) and stimulate her limbic brain how do you explain the

endless stories of women that are otherwise intelligent, educated, with good jobs taking up with "bad boys", guys

that mistreat them (even physically), cheat on them, etc. ...
Hype and B.S. All these discussions you

read about "bypassing" parts of the brain are nonsense, and nothing more.

You don't bypass anything. You can

(and in your case I'll accept that you have) learn/aquire skills which help you connect with someone of the

opposite sex quickly and easily.

But anyone who talks about bypassing parts of the brain without brain surgery

isn't qualified to be discussing it.

So, my advice to you is, take what works for you, use it, but don't

expose yourself to ridicule or being undercut by repeating all this psychobabble mishmash. You don't need to do

that.

Most people DON'T understand how the human system works and they get through life just fine anyway.

[phersurf]

I'll accept that.

But I

still think you should read a couple of those books I listed:)

[phersurf]

I take it back, I don't accept

your statement about BS and hype. Maybe a better way of saying it would be "communicate directly with her limbic

brain" as opposed to "bypass her logical brain"

What do you think happens when you're out somewhere and in

your peripheral vision you see a hot woman and your head almost instantly snaps to look at her? That's your limbic

brain detecting her before your necortex has a chance to say, "she's hot!". You're not logically thinking to

yourself, "she has the right hip to waist ratio, symetrical face, firm breasts, clear skin, I think I'll be

attracted to her". Your limbic brain instinctually knows what an attractive woman looks like.

There are many

studies that show when a man sees images of beautiful women, there is activity in his limbic brain before there is

activity in his neocortex.

Just like our limbic brains know what an attractive woman looks like, a woman's

know's what an attractive man looks (and more importantly to women, acts).

When women take part of the same

studies and are shown images of physically attractive men, there is activity in her limbic brain, only it's much

less than in a man's. Unless they're first told first that the men in the images are in some high status position

in life, then the limbic brain activity is equal to the men's. With men it makes no difference what they are told

about the women before they are shown the images.

When women say they want a man that is confident, funny,

etc do you think they think to themselves, "he's funny, confident, I think I'll be attracted to him". No, their

limbic brain knows that those are attractive attributes.

[Chemist]

Another life of its own! Some women

do not reach decisions logically. It's actually been quantified - they are more natural at deciding based on

feeling (and intuition). Some of these techniques just maximize the appeal to this type of decision and minimize the

other. By showing through actions that you are a confident and desirable man and not a needy wuss - you trigger this

type of decision. Open your mouth and you trigger the logical side - since it thinks in words - step by

step.

You are trying to make her reach a conclusion about you without letting her think about you in words -

it's not bypassing. These two systems work in both men and women - 60% of women would rather use their leaps of

feeling to make a decision and pheromones and any of these techniques appeal to that.

I'm no Brain Surgeon.

but I am somewhat of a Personality Psychologist. PUt that in your pipe and flush it.

[Friendly1]

I take it back,

I don't accept your statement about BS and hype. Maybe a better way of saying it would be "communicate directly

with her limbic brain" as opposed to "bypass her logical brain"
This discussion really has nothing to do

with body language.


What do you think happens when you're out somewhere and in your peripheral vision

you see a hot woman and your head almost instantly snaps to look at her? That's your limbic brain detecting her

before your necortex has a chance to say, "she's hot!".
This is nonsense.

There is no such thing as a

"limbic brain". The limbic system is one of four or five sections of that area of the brain called the neocortex.



So, if you COULD bypass the neocortex, you would also be bypassing the limbic system.

You really don't need

to drag this out.

[Friendly1]

I'm no Brain

Surgeon. but I am somewhat of a Personality Psychologist. PUt that in your pipe and flush it.
I am not a

psychologist or psychiatrist, but I DID study under a physiological psychologist, and I can only imagine what he

would have to say about all this limbic brain stuff.

[TRock]

don't we have a psych

major/somebody with expertise on the human brain on this forum to settle this?

[phersurf]

http://members.aol.com/nonverbal3/limbic.htm

"RESEARCH REPORTS: 1. The limbic system "plays a

key role in the evolutionary survival and eventual success of hominids" (Eccles 1989:97). 2. Regarding nonverbal

behavior, the limbic system's a. amygdalar division promotes feeding, food-search, angry, and defensive behaviors

related to obtaining food; b. septal division promotes sexual pleasure, genital swelling, grooming, courtship, and

maternal behavior; and c. thalamocingulate division promotes play, vocalization (e.g., the separation cry), and

maternal behavior (MacLean 1993). 3. "While the cortex contains our model of reality and analyzes what exists

outside ourselves, it is the limbic brain that determines the salience of that information" (Cytowic 1993:156). 4.

The cerebral cortex "has more inputs from the limbic system than the limbic system has coming from the cortex"

(Cytowic 1993:161). 5. Many emotional systems, in addition to the limbic system, may exist in the brain (LeDoux

1996:103)."

http://www.thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/d/d_05/d_05_cr/d_05_cr_her/d_05_cr_her.htm



The limbic brain emerged in the first mammals. It can record memories of behaviours that produced agreeable

and disagreeable experiences, so it is responsible for what are called emotions in human beings. The main structures

of the limbic brain are the hippocampus, the amygdala, and the hypothalamus. The limbic brain is the seat of the

value judgments that we make, often unconsciously, that exert such a strong influence on our

behaviour.

[url]http://www.glenninstitute.org/glenn/news_reviews_director_bookshelf_details.asp?id=5[/url

]

"Publisher: Vintage Books
Year Published: 2001

Reviewer: Deborah Merritt
Affiliation: Glenn

Institute Staff

What’s love got to do with civic engagement? Quite a bit, it turns out. Thomas Lewis, Fari

Amini, and Richard Lannon—all psychiatrists—explain the latest discoveries of brain research in this engaging book

for laymen. Along the way, they illuminate what makes us distinctly human and why we crave community.

Our

human brain encompasses three distinct brains: the reptilian brain, the neocortex, and the limbic brain. The

reptilian brain, which we share with our distant relatives the crocodiles and snakes, regulates heartbeat,

digestion, and other basic life functions. The reptilian brain can also generate instinctive behaviors like mating

and territorial defense. But the reptilian brain supports neither emotion nor cognition.

The neocortex houses

speaking, writing, planning, reasoning, awareness, and will—the functions we most associate with being human.

Indeed, humans boast more neocortex than any other animal; we are justly proud of our thinking skills.

But

Lewis, Amini, and Lannon focus their attention on the mysterious limbic brain, an organ we share with other mammals.

The limbic brain is the seat of emotion, attachment, and play. Mammals, the authors point out “bear their young

live; they nurse, defend, and rear them while they are immature. Mammals, in other words, take care of their own.”

These mammalian characteristics distinguish us as humans as much as our cognitive abilities do. A human, like other

mammals, “will risk and sometimes lose its life to protect a child or mate from attack. A garter snake or a

salamander watches the death of its kin with an unblinking eye.”

The limbic brain doesn’t govern only the

caring of parents, children, and mates; it is the seat of all our social urges—and those are powerful forces. Humans

the world over show identical facial expressions. A smile signals friendliness and joy in Papua New Guinea as well

as New York. These universal expressions, tied to the limbic brain, allow us to communicate with other humans

instantaneously and without conscious thought. Eye contact between two strangers transmits sympathy, hostility,

lust, or other emotions. The limbic brain establishes these positive or negative ties before the neocortex

articulates them.

Humans, moreover, seek social bonds. When in the company of family members, lovers, and

friends, our limbic brains resonate with theirs. This communication stabilizes individuals, improving both emotional

well being and health. For this reason, humans with partners—or even with other mammalian companions like a dog or

cat—outlive humans who are alone.

Lewis, Amini, and Lannon focus their attention on the limbic brain’s

meaning for family relationships and mature love. They also discuss the ways in which therapy can—and

cannot—reprogram brains for healthier relationships. Their insights, however, are also significant for those

concerned with civic relationships.

[phersurf]

don't we have a psych

major/somebody with expertise on the human brain on this forum to settle this?

No one should take any

of our words for it. Just read a couple of these and make up your own mind!

These are all written using the

newest evidence based on more than enough verifiable studies from scientists from all over the world.




Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley

The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human

Mating by David M. Buss

The Mating Mind : How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature by GEOFFREY

MILLER

Anatomy of Love: A Natural History of Mating, Marriage, and Why We Stray by HELEN FISHER

Sperm

Wars: The Science of Sex by Robin Baker

The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human Mating by David M.

Buss

The Alchemy of Love and Lust by Theresa L. Crenshaw

[Chemist]

Damn people!

It's all a

bunch of metaphors! Stop it.

The right body language triggers an "emotional" response in her (pheromones make

it a little easier).

Let's start a new thread and call it the Biopsychology of Pheromone Usage in

Seduction: For Dorks Only.

I'm there!

[Friendly1]

Damn people!



It's all a bunch of metaphors! Stop it.

The right body language triggers an "emotional" response in her

(pheromones make it a little easier).

Let's start a new thread and call it the Biopsychology of Pheromone

Usage in Seduction: For Dorks Only.

I'm there!
Well, the sad thing is that someone revived discussion

in this thread to help introduce people to the principles of reading body language and it was hijacked into a

pseudo-science argument.

However, if Phersurf and others who talk about bypassing the limbic brain actually do

start reading up on this stuff (and quoting the names of books ain't reading up on anything), then I suppose some

good will come of it.

I do have a request for the moderators, though. I think it would be more useful to split

off the limbic system discussion to some sort of physiology of attraction thread. I think people will get something

out of the topic if we can separate it from the body language discussion.

[TRock]

i was reading an article about

mystery and i ran into this:



http://www.elle.com

/article.asp?article_id=5820&section_id=36&page_number=1&magind=5790 (http://www.elle.com/article.asp?article_id=5820&section_id=36&page_number=1&magind=5790)

A HARDWIRED HABIT
While

Mystery refuses to talk about the psychological underpinnings of his Method, several experts I consult testify to

its soundness. Desmond Morris, the British zoologist and sexuality expert, admits that the Method is a shrewd

compression of the phases of love. “One of the great mistakes men make is not playing all the stages of courtship,”

he says. “It has to be done stage by stage if it's going to work.”

Cornell associate professor of human

development Cynthia Hazan thinks the Method works on a deeper level than even Mystery knows. First of all, she says,

“you knock [the woman] off balance” with the neg, so throughout the next phases “her judgment is impaired. She

becomes focused on getting his attention and approval and getting back into the group.” From the point of view of

evolutionary psychology, she adds, “it's really anxiety-provoking, and humans have a built-in aspect where when

we're anxious we want to get closer to other people.”

The act of negging an attractive woman can even tamper

with her brain chemistry, says Helen Fisher, the author of Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic

Love. “When you fall in love with somebody, what's going on in the brain is an elevated activity of dopamine,”

the main arousal chemical, and “the system that motivates you to win a reward,” she explains. “A woman who's a 9 or

a 10 doesn't have to do any work to get a man, so the system usually isn't triggered and she doesn't feel

romantic love. But when someone spurns her, that system will kick in and she'll feel attraction.”

We can't be

blamed for our innate trigger systems, can we? But to be fooled by the crocodile tears of male “vulnerability”? Even

here we're conditioned to respond, Hazan says. “Vulnerability draws us to people—it's clearly a hardwired

characteristic. We have this spontaneous desire to nurture them, to alleviate their distress.

And when the woman

discovers she's been conned? Once people learn the truth, says Fisher, it often doesn't matter: “The thing is,

once you've hooked somebody in, they'll be willing to ignore almost anything.”

[phersurf]

That's right Friendly, just

keep calling it psuedo-science. Just blow off several books written by scientists with tons of up to date verifiable

studies quoted with your statement "and quoting the names of books ain't reading up on anything". Don't open your

mind to the possibility that these books prove what I've been saying (poorly, I admit).

AND I NEVER SAID

ANYTHING ABOUT BYPASSING THE LIMBIC BRAIN (if you don't believe me, reread my posts)! I SAID THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO

BYPASS THE LOGICAL BRAIN (which I admit maybe wasn't the best way to say it)! Having a little reading comprehension

issue, huh? I guess you also missed when I corrected myself by agreeing with you that your not really bypassing the

rational brain but talking directly to the limbic system?

Everyone here talks about the DIHL effect of

mones, you guys haven't seen anything until you use some of David D's "techniques" (they're not really

techniques) on an extremely attractive woman! I've seen looks like you can't believe just by acting normal around

beautiful women and not suplicating.

[Friendly1]

Phersurf, there is no

physiological thing called a "logical brain", either, but I'll accept that as a metaphor for the system you use.



In the meantime, this discussion has nothing to do with body language, and though you obviously feel it is not

important, many other people seem to be interested in learning more about it so they can reach their own conclusions

without either of us giving them their opinions.

Will you agree to leave well enough alone if I say no more about

limbic anything, pseudo-anything, etc?

[phersurf]

When I talk about the logical,

limbic and reptilian brain it refers to various physical parts of the brain that have logical functions. Most

scientists use these same terms.

If you'd read any of the books I listed, I think you might be

enlightened.

[Marlboro_man]

When I brought this thread

up from the graves, I was hoping it would spark more conversation on body language (after all that is the title of

this thread). Please focus more on the original topic as debating on why seduction works is not important to this

thread. I do however appreciate and respect your opinions on the topic that you are discussing but just want this

hijacked thread to return to it's original roots.

[Friendly1]

When I

brought this thread up from the graves, I was hoping it would spark more conversation on body language (after all

that is the title of this thread). Please focus more on the original topic as debating on why seduction works is not

important to this thread. I do however appreciate and respect your opinions on the topic that you are discussing but

just want this hijacked thread to return to it's original roots.
We could always start another body

language discussion, although there is no guarante it won't be hijacked, either.

Body language is intrinsically

important to human behavior.

[Chemist]

Someone who has a sense of humor!

Make them laugh! They're body language will show you that you're in!

[TRock]

We could always

start another body language discussion, although there is no guarante it won't be hijacked, either.

Body

language is intrinsically important to human behavior.
body language is essential because no amount of

game will help you if you subcommunicate that you are a wussy. for some people being c&f and knowing other seduction

material self corrects their body language but a person with bad inner game needs to know body language.

but

outside of seduction i like to know body language just to see what's going on in the world.

[belgareth]

Phersurf,

Since you chose

to not read my PM, I'll bring it up here. Debate and disagreement are fine. However, keep it civil! There is no

excuse to be insulting.

Friendly,

I was going to stop the off topic discussion until you participated in it.

It's your thread and you decided to carry on the discussion into other areas so I left it there.

[Chemist]

I don't see anybody being

insulting - but then again we all have different senses of humor. However, I agree this forum is going way off

original topic.

Let me state my opinion and try to keep it on topic.

Body language is helpful. No

bones about it. However, most of the books I have read do make me read too much into what is going on and I have

found other things more helpful and advancing my goals - and this is what I beleive people are referring to as the

"inner game". Once I got my inner game focused, the body langauge kind of followed naturally.

People facing

each other completely - or a girl turning towards you and locking eye contact just prior to conversation - while I

am staring right into her eyes. It kind of follows - but whose to say the body language came first - I can't - but

I can sure as hell recognize it when its happening - her body language sort of mirrors mine - but not because I've

forced it - but because she is laughing at the conversation - and often times its poking fun at her.

Perhaps

we should start a thread about the "inner game".

personally, I found that to be the MOST INVALUABLE piece of

the puzzle - or rather - the last piece and everything fell into place.

The difference between what I am now

and what I was a year ago is distinctly different. Girls are actually competing for my time whereas before my phone

was silent. Body Language, pheromones, the inner game - they are all vital components.

We should definately

start a new topic since some of the mods are rightfully getting peeved due to our tangents. I don't see any of

these personal comments as nasty, but then again, I don't take myself so seriously.

Next person who wants to

go on about something besides body language in this forum, start a new topic, and I will gladly join in. I have a

lot to say. Apprently sometimes too much. :-D

[Marlboro_man]

I went ahead and start that

new thread and it's simply named body language part 2.


Next person who wants to go on about

something besides body language in this forum, start a new topic, and I will gladly join in. I have a lot to say.

Apprently sometimes too much. :-DPlease join in and say as much as you want, it will be welcomed.




We could always start another body language discussion, although there is no guarante it won't

be hijacked, either.

Body language is intrinsically important to human behavior.Your opinions and

knowledge in this subject are greatly welcomed.


Phersurf,

Since you chose to not read my

PM, I'll bring it up here. Debate and disagreement are fine. However, keep it civil! There is no excuse to be

insulting.

Friendly,

I was going to stop the off topic discussion until you participated in it. It's your

thread and you decided to carry on the discussion into other areas so I left it there.Bel that means if the

new thread gets off topic I can ask you to do something about it?

[phersurf]

I wasn't intending to be

insulting. I just thought that some might be totally shocked at the latest studies about human mating and evolution

and the books I mentioned have much of that info. For example, 10-20% of all people on the planet have a different

biological father than they think is their biological father. That's because women marry men that they put in their

"provider" catagory, but mate with men they put in their "lover" catagory. These catagories are mapped in her limbic

system (many scientists refer to this logical grouping of brain structures as the "limbic brain").

And I

never said that body language is not important. I just said that if you wait for a woman to show you some positive

signs before you approach, you're drastically decreasing the number of women that you may have a chance with.



Please refer back to all my posts starting on page 3 and you will see that until I was challanged, I was on

topic.

[Chemist]

I got no PMs! But don't send me

one if its not necessary!

[belgareth]

Bel that

means if the new thread gets off topic I can ask you to do something about it?
Yes, if I miss it, call my

attention to it before it gets out of hand. Oscar and I try to catch these but don't always manage to get every one

of them. Remember that there is a notify mod button that will send us an e-mail too.