life in the slippery lane: why hookers are better for you [Archive]

surfs_up

11-17-2004, 03:33 PM

Five or six years ago my life took one of those turns, file under "you can't make this stuff

up", when I took a deep breath and dove into the pay for sex pool. Now, I completely appreciate that a large number

of guys will think of this as a cop out, or too gross, or too risky, just plain not done, or some horrific fall from

grace in the eyes of God, their superego, community standards, things their friends and parents would freak out

about if they knew, voluntary virgins would weep and pray for you....

There was the other side of the street

to consider, however, as many of our more seasoned posters have spoken of, the weird triangles you unexpectedly find

yourself in, emotional blackmail (I've known a few women who must have gotten advanced degrees in this specialty),

all the confusions of "true feelings", whatever the heck they are, and pure slathering reproductive DNA spewing

instincts, or mostly the damned stupidity of spending untold amounts of money trying to be noticed, dating scenes,

clubs that are so loud and the patrons are so drunk you can't think a complete sentence to yourself, more untold

amounts of misused time, girls who play the preggo game to lock you in (happens all the time and nobody talks about

this one, no media comes clean about the guys who find themselves drafted into fatherhood and all their protective,

responsible instincts get triggered... ooops must have forget a pill or ten when I was about to ovulate

!)

Yeah, I had been the responsible guy, the good guy and I had been played like a schmuck for my charitable

attitude. Midlife crisis ? Fuck the midlife crisis. I was going to consciously regress part of my life back to my

teen years and totally blow off the identity that society had glued to me.

Smartest thing I ever did.

Researched the escort websites, followed the discussions until I felt I had a grounding in how the game was played,

and then..... bada bada baaaa, trembling with insecurity made the phone call to an, ummmm... gentleman's

establishment that caters to the mid priced bracket that my lifestyle permits. Lucked out, this place was sane, well

managed, and some of the girls were among the coolest people I've gotten to know.

Many, many preconceptions

about this activity went sailing out the window, say, like when you actually get to know people of different

ethnicity and you see how much you thought you knew about them were absurd preconceptions...

About the same

time I was finding out about pheromones as products one could purchase and use, instead of laboratory items that

never made it to the public.

Not surprisingly, the availability of decent to mind boggling sex depending on

the factors of the evening, without needing to blow one or more futile nights trying to score, minus the liver

stress of the drinking, the staying up too late, the ludicrous stupidity of charming some questionable babe home to

my place, or home to her place, or the pathetic dating scene... nope, freeedom from all that, one or two hours of

superior physical jammin, clean bed with fresh sheets, shower if you need it, with a stunning woman half my age that

I would have about 1:1000 chance of hooking up with in a public joint, some nice conversation, nice massage after

the high point of the evening, home again, long soak in the tub as this is an aerobic activity par excellance, and

sound asleep by midnight...

Following this line of reasoning so far ? Yes, it costs money, quality costs

money, you get nuttin for nuttin, but when you calculate the real, summarised costs of cruising for nookie, it's

cheaper and way less stressful...

Now, take the above and add pheromones. Big, juicy large doses of

pheromones, lotsa androstenone, lotsa androstenol, have no shame, the night is yours, and finish it with a good

spray of classy cologne, consider it an investment.

What then, Mr. Wizard ??? What happens when you add sex

madness pheromones to an already combustible mix ???

Well, Grasshopper, sometimes not much. Some women don't

respond strongly, it is maybe a touch friendlier, a touch more communicative...Other times... wellllll, other times

its like detonating nitroglycerine and you know whats coming when they give you The Look, nope, it isn't DIHL,

it's more like, dude you are about to be swallowed whole... in more than one sense of the word...

Where does

that leave us ? The crucial thing in my experience is that there is almost no background sexual pressure with

"civilians", as non-pros are known in the trade. It becomes greatly easier to sort out what is the emotional and

intellectual side of a relationship, and what is the physical drive. Sex with pros can still have warmth, emotional

communication, and dare I say it, meaning. No more do I wonder what this one or that one of my civilian friendships,

business relations, casual contacts might be like as a sexual partner.... ooooh baby, what's she like naked ?

Don't much care, don't much need to reflect on it, sure won't be mindlessly chasing it... if the hornies are

creeping up, the solution, a reliable no hassle, no deep where do we go from here conversation thing, what you see

is what you get experience is a phone call away.

That can be massively liberating. If somebody's wife wants

to play footsie with me or flash me her thingie, yep, been there and seen that, most of us old pharts have once or

twice, I can say, yeah, that's cute, flattered that you care so much for me, but I'm not your man-ho to play your

mind games with sweety, and if I feel a residual stirring in my loins, a shave, shower, a quick mone OD and a spritz

of cologne, and I'm good for a week.

DCW

11-17-2004, 03:51 PM

I appreciate your honesty and I know

everyone's situation and outlook is different but I personally don't find it that difficult to get some

action.

The challenge to me is hooking up with someone on more than a physical level that will hold my

interest on all levels.

If you don't mind me asking how old are you?

DCW

DeMoKiLL

11-17-2004, 03:59 PM

that was certainly an

interesting read lol

DeMoKiLL

11-17-2004, 04:02 PM

what about std's?

surfs_up

11-17-2004, 04:08 PM

I'm fifty, more or less. When I

was 20-25 sex just happened, 25-30 things got a touch more strategic as women get to thinking long term, guys are

still in short term mode, 30-35 everybody is expected to turn into a serious citizen, 35-40 you're laying the

foundations of cardio vascular disease due to overwork keeping up with everybody else, piling on the debt, 40-45

you're either the boss or you're the employee and that's how it's going to stay and all the crazy shit you did

from 20-25 is catching up with you bigtime. Your face turns as beautiful or ugly as the stuff in your soul. Nobody

gives a damn about your charm unless you work as a maitre'd, they care about your competence. The collective genius

or idiocy of a lifetime gains karmic momentum. What you sewed you now reap, bigtime my friend. That's about when I

looked around and saw that there was an emergency eject button, and just for grins I pushed it.

surfs_up

11-17-2004, 04:14 PM

what about

std's?:

good question, the answer may surprise you. Almost all the girls who aren't druggies or psychos, in

a well run place they spot them coming and keep 'em out, the higher quality people are rational and careful. I've

never caught a STD in this manner. I get extensively tested at a clinic that adult video actors and actresses are

required to go to, the doc there is a great urologist as well, he knows more about prostate health than any other

fancy dan doc I've been to. You're biggest risk is hepatitis (A+B) so anyone who plays must get the hepatitis

vaccine. Anecdotally, civi girls may be higher STD risks becaue they don't get tested frequently, and they aren't

as vigilant. There is a ton of reckless civiv sex in the 20-25 group, mindless careless partying. How many of them

get their Hep series, or know of a dedicated STD clinic, or ever which tests to ask for ?

Gegogi

11-17-2004, 04:17 PM

Well it certainly keeps life

simpler! I've gotten myself into more messes over women than I care to remember. However, I have never felt

fulfilled by a hooker as there's much more to relations between men 'n women than sex. In fact, sex is the least

of the fun. It's nice to have both a friend and a playmate.

Pancho1188

11-17-2004, 04:24 PM

Although society will probably

always frown upon it, prostitution is really just commoditizing (probably not really a word) sex. There's supply

and demand for it, and if people are willing to pay for it then more power to them.

surfs_up

11-17-2004, 05:36 PM

Look hard at the multitude of relations around you, commodified connections are everywhere. I see

untold numbers of marriages that have a strong commodity factor going. People talk about wife as "a man's

property", seriously, today... is a man then "a woman's property" too ? What's with this chattel value

?

Here's an ever stranger twist to consider, where out friend beta-androstenol came into play. At one point

in my unconventional love life, there was a stunning young hooker, er.. escort, european girl, so intelligent,

naturally cultivated, speaks many languages fluently, I was mad for her, and of course used huge doses of pheros to

make our time together more meaningful... we were connecting on a deep personal level although neither one of us

could make out what was happening nor could we, should we, trust our immediate responses.

There was this

otherworldly ease of communication, finding ourselves completing the other's thought, I'm asking myself, this is

supposed to be a bimbo escort ? She's half my age and she makes me look dumb ?

We gradually became true

friends, travelled to excellent places, because of her unusual linguistic ability we could go just about anywhere.

She's know who the architect was that built a modern structure in a foreign city, she liked opera, she was, and is,

a first rate writer who could easily work for any magazine as a correspondent, so go figure. Stunning girl,

outrageous breat implants, it didn't add up. Who cared ? Our communication had its up and downs like it always

does, I would prefer they stay on the upside as when she was on her game she was the most brilliant communicator I

ever met, when she'd go internal and contend with her demons she wasn't as available... demons being the needful

things that demons are...

To contend withthis issue I made up a strong batch of beta-androstenol + Athena

(yes, Athena is good stuff, it works, no it isn't just DHEA, yes I've tested it extensively in groups and with

individuals) + extra androstadienone + pure ambergris (not Sigma Aldrich fake ambergris) and some Creed Himalaya...

the ambergris really adds a dimension to it that I can't explain... and every day I'd put a little on my face and

neck... she's get a whiff and her eyes would light up, she get this mischeveous grin and get light and playful,

like her cares would drop away, we'd have these moments, really deep, personal, like ESP between us, she was

totally a friend, more like a sister than a lover, it was the most powerful vibe, people around us would feel it, in

public places, in restaurants, I was thinking... under the right circumstances, this technology can be so powerful,

so life changing..

and to this day she does not know about it....

TRock

11-17-2004, 05:46 PM

prostitution is a societal norm.

there's really nothing wrong with it imo. if you got the money but little free time, it's more economical to just

go to the bedroom.

bjf

11-17-2004, 05:52 PM

So surfs up, you guys traveled and

stuff. Did she still make you pay for sex? If so, didn't you feel mixed up about the nature of your

relationship?

surfs_up

11-17-2004, 06:19 PM

No, no way.. like I said, she became like a sister... she is a friend, a good friend, better than many

friends I've had... she loves to do things, never known another person who can cover as much ground, I'd turn my

back and she'd be picking up Euskedi (basque language) if she had half a chance, then take me up to a basque

place... it was funny, there was no confusion, we change roles, threw out the costumes, reveled in being human

beings, went shopping at Corte Ingles and filled the apartment up with strange euro food, went to the theatre, got

drunk and acted ridiculous... lived, man, lived.

surfs_up

11-17-2004, 06:20 PM

it was no longer a money thing, or an ego thing, or even a sex thing.. it was a soul thing.

DCW

11-17-2004, 06:42 PM

Whatever make u happy man, your not

hurting anyone.

Some hookers will tell you that they have regulars that just want to talk and nothing more. I

kinda feel sorry for a guy who would pay someone just to talk to or for simple companionship.

I got news for

you some of today's big money actresses and a few singers were once "kept women" and willing casting couch

participants.

But what the heck.

DCW

TRock

11-17-2004, 06:48 PM

^any names?

Surreal

11-17-2004, 06:55 PM

....it was the

most powerful vibe, people around us would feel it....
Sounds like what I would consider my heaven....

Got any pics of you two together you can post?

pheromack

11-17-2004, 06:56 PM

:( I just hope your careful out

there because there are many sicknesses out there

Pherozen

11-17-2004, 06:59 PM

Wow you're escort sounds like

quite a catch.

tim929

11-17-2004, 07:46 PM

As far as visiting an escort

goes,it realy is alot easier and frankly...more honest that what we as men and women usualy end up doing.What does a

man end up doing if he meets a woman he realy likes and wants to get with?He takes her to dinner,a movie,maybe

dancing,pays for drinks and all of the other nifty stuff that women expect a man to pay for on a first date.The

second date she is usualy treated to simmilar entertainment.And if your in the tax bracket I wish I was in,it might

involves a round trip on the Concord.We as men tend to be the ones paying for all these goodies.And I have had a few

first dates that cost quite a bit for thigs like concert tickets and dinner at a nice resturant plus cab fair.And we

spend all this money for...what was it again exactly? SEX! We are simply putting on the moves to get

laid.Sure,relationships are nice and all that.But what we realy want rests comfortably between a womans legs.So why

not just cut to the chase and pay her for sex?What is dating realy but leagalized prostitution?And if you simply pay

her for it,you get the pleasure of skipping the moutain of B.S. that goes along with trying to impress a woman

enough to get her back to your place(or her's)You dont need to be anybody but you.She is getting paid so she realy

couldnt care less about how impressive you seem.And nobody needs to lie about anything or play any of the mind

boggling number of head games that are usualy included in the whole dating scene.
Thats my two cents worth.

Pherozen

11-17-2004, 08:39 PM

I think that's an odd way to look

at things. I usually go for sex first, and if things hit off I'll go out on a date. Saves money and time. And

feels less sleazy, for me anyways.

lordcrazyd

11-17-2004, 08:51 PM

Since we're on the topic

anyone know any spots in New York City =)

Gegogi

11-17-2004, 09:04 PM

Tim, you're hangin' with the

wrong women. Sure I take women out on dates and pay. However, just as often women take me out and pay. In fact,

often they ask me out first and treat me. Not too long ago a new lady friend surprised me with a reserved hotel room

for an after dinner romp. Moreover there's a lot more to life than a roll in the hay. If that's all you want, whip

your noodle in private. It's cheap and you'll pleasure yourself better than any hired hand. But if you want to

experience good company and conversation, the joy of getting to know a new friend or the excitment of falling in

love forget about bangin' a hoe.

Watcher

11-17-2004, 09:12 PM

Paying for sex is fine

I

personally used it once or twice but after the pheromones havent had the need.

Gotta use it to keep that

advantage over other guys and i dont apoligize for using em.

In terms of preggo games - bring on a male

contraceptive (heard about a pill that turns the immune system against male sperm - temporary and after about a week

of not taking this type of drug you become fertile again) but a male pill would be a great idea - the other option

is of course go to the sperm bank squirt out some stuff keep it in storage and cut the tubes then you can go bonking

as much as you want.

Of course condom usage is always a good otpin

Knuuttipukki

11-17-2004, 09:55 PM

Yea...Better use condom, it

protects from STDs too. Just make sure that there is no holes in it(don´t let her use her fingernails to make those

holes)

Pherozen

11-17-2004, 11:41 PM

Yea...Better

use condom, it protects from STDs too. Just make sure that there is no holes in it(don´t let her use her fingernails

to make those holes)
Do you have some sort of past experience with sabotaged condoms?

Silver

11-18-2004, 02:20 AM

Ok I feel really

really...um...awkward intruding upon this "sex is all I want from women" conversation but here I go, fools rush

in.

To be honest, I have nothing against prostitution as a concept. Some of the most intelligent and respectable

women are prostitutes. Some of the most influential women in the course of history have been courtesans. The famed

Qing dynasty Empress CiXi, for example.

That having been said, there are serious problems with prostitution in

practice. Prostitution supports and funds crime on all fronts. Granted, this is not so for the highest end escort

services, but the practice of prostitution as a whole does very much. Prostitution promotes a ridiculous amount of

objectification of women. For some of you, this might not be true right now, but for many of you it will. And for

some of you, it clearly already has. "But what we realy want rests comfortably between a womans legs," Tim? No

offense, but this is the kind of guy I would gladly drop kick. This is the kind of thinking that makes it ok for

men to hit their wives. And i'm not saying that you would ever think that, but the objectification of women in

this way is the kind of thing that promotes it.

Everyone has different values. If you turn to prostitution

because occasionally you would like to have sex without strings attached, that's totally fine. Whatever floats

your boat.:) But if this is the way you view sex, relationships, dating, love, and women? Then I feel really sorry

for you. Because love is a wonderful wonderful thing.

My personal values dictate that I would never have sex

unless I loved him, he loved me, and there was a lot of mutual trust. To me, sex is an expression of love, beauty,

and all that is right with the world. But I can totally see and understand people who feel that sex is an

expression of the beauty and harmony of two people coming together for pleasure, or just pleasure. That's

awesome.:) Sometimes, some people just want sex for sex. But if you only want women for sex, only date for sex,

and do not value or seek love, companionship, and beauty...then I am deeply sorry.

Best wishes to

all,
~Silver

Pherozen

11-18-2004, 02:59 AM

Although your point is very valid,

I would have to say I feel sorry for people who cannot have sex just for sex, no strings attached. Sex has many

health benefits. Although I would like something "more" in the long run, good sex is not something that I can do

without. Sure I'd like to meet a great girl that is number one and I'd like to settle, but I have neither the

time nor energy to get emotionally involved with every girl that I meet. And prostitutes don't work as I see women

who've slept around less as of "higher value" (hey I grew up with this, so it can't be argued out of me). Why pay

for something of considerably lower value. Not to say a whore can't be a well rounded person, but not a very

valuable one in my eyes. Although this multilingual super cultural guru whore seems to be pretty cool that was

talked about in this thread.

surfs_up

11-18-2004, 12:52 PM

like, my blood pressure hovers around 115/75 that is excellent for a fifty year old guy without resorting to b.p.

meds that make you semi impotent. There are types who are incapable of emotional growth that find themselves stuck

in a money-sex rut, these guys are stuck in other forms of life quicksand too, with other people the experience can

be a potent emotional growth accelerator as you meet people with life stories that are wildly different, some good,

some bad, some incredibly interesting. Knowing the ropes is a must. It's possible to have awful encounters with

freakish, disturbed types too, this has soured many men who never knew about the quality side of it. I've been

mentally and emotionally places I never would have, nor could have, gone in my legitimate day to day socially

approved life. With the right use of -mones it's putting a growth accelerator on an experience that is already a

growth accelerator. Your perception of yourself, women, life, what it's all about can be shot into orbit. If you

have a strong prejudgment, say, a fixed idea of "whore" you may be limiting greatly the amount of understanding you

can gain.

Pherozen

11-18-2004, 04:48 PM

I've been around the block and met

the wildest to the wierdest girls. From the emotionally repressed and just plain emotional. From outright crazy,

to just plain crazy. Yeah you're right putting yourself in socially unacceptable environments do speed up growth,

and I've learned a lot from them, but I've been in and around this stuff way too long, well I'm only 21 but

still. Once you get so deep into the "darkside" you long for the "pure".

Watcher

11-19-2004, 01:12 AM

Here is the thing if a fool proof

contraception method could be found + all STDs could be eradicated then prostituion would be fine.

For

single guys yes it is a valid way to keep them going esp if they have been single for a quite a while.

There

are women out there just as spot on in selling themselves - they enjoy having no strings attached and provided

certain precautions are taken its reasonably in western countries anyway safe.

In places like australia it is

legal in most states - there are tough guidelnines to operate a bordello though
a) strict criminal checks done

through the prostition control board (government oversight department)
b) no more than 5-10 workers (who also

have criminal and montly STD checks) if they get a STD thats it they are out.
c) strict workplace health and

saftey guidelines
d) random regular police checks
e) they pay tax and must keep strict agreements, contracts

and accounts

Its all tightly controlled keeps the criminal element out - there are regular court cases on

illegal prostition.
Thats the way it needs to be.

Pherozen

11-19-2004, 02:39 AM

A girl could sell her body if

that's what she so chooses to do. But if there were no STDs, this world would just be one giant orgy. One

wonderful giant orgy. And I don't think prostitution would be necessary. Of course there would be the people who

look for meaningful sex, but I think the main thing that holds people back from *boinking* every cute chick they

meet is fear of STDs. Sorry for being so crude but I just got home from a very good day in terms of sexual hits,

and that's what's on my mind. I might think differently tomarrow when I'm awake and less horny.

Elvis

11-19-2004, 09:23 AM

I think the main

thing that holds people back from *boinking* every cute chick they meet is fear of STDs
I suppose everyone

has their own reasons for holding back. Personally, I feel human beings and society are cursed by certain emotions

brought about by certain situations. For example; the thing that stops me going after what I want (every nice girl I

see) is guilt. This emotion derives from the hurt & jealousy (other emotions I hate) experienced by other people in

response to my actions. If my actions didn't produce these emotional responses under said circumstances, then I

could enjoy every woman I met who felt the same way about me. Alas it is not to be. It could be said that this is a

cop out wish, because I don't have the backbone to be a morally upright person and therefore make good decisions.

However, doesn't matter how I look at it, I want to love more than one woman at one time. I have done so before and

I'll do so again. This feels natural to me, and to be monogamous feels very unnatural. Why must we quell our

emotions to have moral fibre? Why do such desires (which feel right to me) produce negative emotions? I do not in my

heart feel that it is just.

DCW

11-19-2004, 09:31 AM

I suppose everyone

has their own reasons for holding back. Personally, I feel human beings and society are cursed by certain emotions

brought about by certain situations. For example; the thing that stops me going after what I want (every nice girl I

see) is guilt. This emotion derives from the hurt & jealousy (other emotions I hate) experienced by other people in

response to my actions. If my actions didn't produce these emotional responses under said circumstances, then I

could enjoy every woman I met who felt the same way about me. Alas it is not to be. It could be said that this is a

cop out wish, because I don't have the backbone to be a morally upright person and therefore make good decisions.

However, doesn't matter how I look at it, I want to love more than one woman at one time. I have done so before and

I'll do so again. This feels natural to me, and to be monogamous feels very unnatural. Why must we quell our

emotions to have moral fibre? Why do such desires (which feel right to me) produce negative emotions? I do not in my

heart feel that it is just.

Would u feels the same way if your girlfriend came to you with the same

arguement?

DCW

Elvis

11-19-2004, 09:36 AM

Of course DCW, because I am

currently suffering from emotionitis like every other member of the human race. If none of us had any of this to

deal with there would be no problem for anyone.

Pancho1188

11-19-2004, 10:01 AM

Would u feels the

same way if your girlfriend came to you with the same arguement?

DCW
That's the million-dollar

question. If you can live with it, then I say be polygomous. If you can't, though, then you've better give up

your ways or you're not being fair to other people.

Note: by polygomous I mean multiple relationships, not

multiple wives. You have the right in this country to sleep, live, and be with many different women.

I

couldn't do it because I couldn't take a woman wanting another man besides me after making a commitment and

therefore would never do that to anyone else. Hell, I won't even suggest a threesome with someone I really cared

about (not that I would suggest one with two random women, but you get what I'm trying to say) because I wouldn't

want the roles reversed and it's not fair (It's like saying, "You're not enough for me, honey."). I don't feel

it would be possible for me to ever get the emotional closeness I would eventually want to have with someone if I

wasn't willing to make that kind of commitment, and to me that's sad. I'm introverted, so that probably explains

my desire for one seriously close person who knows me so well and can talk about anything rather than many

relationships with less emotional depth. In other words, I'm willing to sacrifice sex with more than one person to

have all of the benefits that I will receive. I do realize, however, that not all people think that way and I do

hope they find happiness in being single and having many relationships. I just hope they are moral about it and let

their gfs know what their philosophy is.

Elvis

11-19-2004, 10:48 AM

That's the

million-dollar question. If you can live with it, then I say be polygomous. If you can't, though, then you've

better give up your ways or you're not being fair to other people.
This is a true statement.
It's sad

that we as a species are forced to choose like this because we are at the mercy of a conscience. I feel that we would grow spiritually by widening our experiences in

life...not limiting them. Unfortunately I suffer the same affliction as everyone else (the conscience) therefore I

am faced with the same choice also. It is silly that we are at the leash of this unseen force that tells us "look!

There's a yummy chocolate cake and a sweet cookie, but you can only have one???" OK, cakes and cookies don't have

feelings which are affected adversely by our choices, but that is my point...we do and suffer as a

result. I thought variety was the spice of life, but clearly this only applies to things our conscience

(malfunctioning conscience imo) doesn't object to. Thanks God.

So, we trade

guilt, bitterness, sadness for what...bitterness, sadness and a desperate hurt inside that we can never truly get to

know the most special person in the world, because our conscience won't let us sleep. Strange trade-off in my

view.

DCW

11-19-2004, 11:05 AM

Elvis

11-19-2004, 11:23 AM

Haha...good idea. Maybe we

could start a new religion. Swingdianity!:goodpost:

Pancho1188

11-19-2004, 11:44 AM

This is a

true statement.
It's sad that we as a species are forced to choose like this because we are at the mercy of a

conscience. I feel that we would grow spiritually by widening our

experiences in life...not limiting them. Unfortunately I suffer the same affliction as everyone else (the

conscience) therefore I am faced with the same choice also. It is silly that we are at the leash of this unseen

force that tells us "look! There's a yummy chocolate cake and a sweet cookie, but you can only have one???" OK,

cakes and cookies don't have feelings which are affected adversely by our choices, but that is my point...we

do and suffer as a result. I thought variety was the spice of life, but clearly this only applies to

things our conscience (malfunctioning conscience imo) doesn't object to. Thanks

God.

So, we trade guilt, bitterness, sadness for what...bitterness, sadness and a desperate

hurt inside that we can never truly get to know the most special person in the world, because our conscience won't

let us sleep. Strange trade-off in my view.

I'm confused. All I was saying is, "Don't be a hypocrite," or "Do

unto others as you would have done to you." If you can accept your girl hitting other men, then you should feel

fine sleeping with whoever you want.

My conscience doesn't keep me from being polygamous...my conscience keeps

me from being a hypocrite. I don't want my gf hitting on/sleeping with other guys, therefore I won't. It's only

fair. To do it myself and not 'allow' my gf to do it would be irrational and unfair to me. Yes, immoral as well,

but I don't think I could get away with doing someone myself and not expecting the other person to have a choice to

do so as well. My conscience tells me that if I was okay with my gf sleeping around while I did, everything would

be fine. My conscience would be perfectly okay with that situation. In other words, it's not that my conscience

keeps me from being polygamous; it's that it keeps me from being a hypocrite.

Like I said...I have nothing

against polygamy if everyone agrees to it and understands the rules (aka cheating without your spouse knowing is

wrong, but both of you sleeping with a bunch of people and each other sometimes isn't much different than being

friends with benefits with someone while dating others). You have the freedom to do so, and more power to you. If

you can't accept the possibility that your gf will sleep with others, then you shouldn't do it. If you can,

though, then go and be happy together.

Like I said, I can't do it...not because my conscience says

polygamy is wrong but the fact that I...or, rather, my ego...could not handle my spouse/gf being with someone else

as I would start to feel inadequate and unfulfilling to my partner. What does that guy have that I don't ("It's

not that he's better; he's just different." Yeah, like my mind will make the distinction)? Am I not good enough?

Why does she need him if she has me?

I couldn't handle that. If you can, then you can do it. That's all

I'm saying.

I'm not at the mercy of my conscience; I'm in control of my understanding of what is fair and

right and live by my values. If that is the type of life you would like to live, can accept your partner doing the

same, and can meet someone who agrees with you, then you can be just as fulfilled as someone who believes in

monogamy and follows it.

Pherozen

11-19-2004, 01:27 PM

I think what it all comes down to

is that we want more than we're willing to give.

Pancho1188

11-19-2004, 02:06 PM

I'm a humble guy who doesn't

ask for much. I only need one. :)

Surreal

11-19-2004, 03:30 PM

^^^ I as well ^^^

Elvis

11-20-2004, 02:14 AM

Pancho, I agree with the vast

majority of what you are saying. You are explaining the reality of life on earth as most of us see

it.
However...

...my conscience keeps me from being a hypocrite.I'm afraid I don't

share this view with you. You can be a hypocrite if you like, nothing to "keep" you from being one. I think what you

and I both mean to say is that being a hypocrite will result in our consciences punishing us. This is a more

accurate description and is what I meant when I said I am at the "mercy" of my conscience. "Mercy", meaning it can

choose to dish out punishment or refrain, i.e. maybe it will have "mercy" on me.

Also, I don't know about your

personal conscience, but mine is a wildly erratic tool. I have been morally incorrent many times, yet it had mercy

on me...not a peep, even for things it probably should have taken action over.

Conversely, I have been

reprimanded whilst being morally correct. Sometimes choosing the correct moral decision results in another party

being hurt in a different way (justly or unjustly) The function of the conscience may be to protect...self and

others, but I feel it doesn't work as often as not. This is my beef. I can't change it. I should probably just get

on with it. But, it doesn't stop me being sad about it anyway.

surfs_up

11-20-2004, 10:11 AM

life bumps along... you learn a few tricks about emotional survival. Unexpected things began to

happen when I turned 45 or thereabouts... young things found me magnetically attractive after a decade of tune out.

Must be a father figure, protector, font of wisdom archetype that young women feel a buzz for. When you arrange

parts of yourself just so, say you've studied subjects like vocal production on the side that might give you a

subtly hypnotic voice without thinking about it, you have learned how to dress, hold yourself, how to restrain your

more idiotic impulses, and perhaps there's a -mone residue on your clothing or skin, it can be too easy, the sweet

thing looks at you and shes ga-ga-ga...

Older women too, unhappy in their marriages, not cut out for the

dating scene, feeling the midlife testosterone surge...

Looking at the easily available pleasures, and the

considering the consequences of offering up a heap of promise to someone who may be wading in deeper than they will

admit, or allowing fantasies and idealized ideas to run out of control,
it was infinitely better, more ethical,

certainly fairer to women whom I had no intention of taking advantage of, to (for now, and as long as circumstances

are this way) keep my erotic life strictly seperated from the rest of my social life.

Nobody get hurt this

way. I don't use women for sex by suggesting that there's more if there isn't more, I don't beat myself up for

using women, I don't feel the need to play flirty games to reassure myself that I am still desirable, there is no

pressure to get all needy and manipulative, there doesn't have to be an undercurrent of whatever. This strategy

keeps matters clean, fair, and all the cards on the table.

That isn't to say that you choose a life without

feeling. Au contraire, deeper, more genuine, and less contaminated feeling is possible when the inherently selfish

power of sexual drive is reduced to the level of a nuance. There's an absolutely gorgeous married woman in my

building, we have a tremendous rapport, there is a lot of feeling that passes between us, she, however is married

into a family system that would cause untold problems if she were to change it around at this point, and I have no

desire to look back at myself in five years and think, "so you're the guy who tore all that down for a little

nookie", and she knows my libido is firmly managed, she doesn't know where, how, or with who, but she senses I know

where the important boundaries are and I'm not going to mess with them. This seems to free her to show me sides of

herself she might not if she thought I'd take it as an invitation to go after her.

Should the right girl

come along, she's have to be one hell of a sharp cookie, I would stop my activities, wait the necessary time, have

the full battery of STD tests, ones I regularly have anyway, and I would re-enter the civilian world of romantic

love and stay on the civi side of the fence as long as the relationship was viable.

nichirenx

11-20-2004, 10:06 PM

surfs_up

11-21-2004, 06:05 AM

social pressure is amazingly effective at making you do things you would not otherwise do. Even

social pressure to have lots of sex. The hardest thing is to know yourself well and live in a way that truly fits

who you are. Most people don't do that. They're afraid of judgement or rejection.

a.k.a.

11-21-2004, 07:42 PM

So how much does this all cost?

MOBLEYC57

11-21-2004, 08:20 PM

I envy your

experience. In a good way.
I hope I get half of the culture in the next 20 years.

And I agree with you after a

fashion.

I am 23. Started dating an older woman at 16(starting college). She was 27. Got married at right before

age 20(had a good free sexual run in college). The relationship went to pieces when I was 22. Funny thing is it went

belly up because I never believed in the religious/marriage/structured thinking I was raised with.(born atheist and

cynic-out of all the strictness/homophobia my family raised me with they always seemed to be taken advantage of).

And she constantly complained that I wasnt emotional or docile enough.

Anywho, my problem isnt really meeting

women, but just finding a good healthy sexual friendship with a woman with no obligations.

I would not mind

committment, if I had a guarantee fidelity would be there. But no way I am getting an STD because the person I was

trusting backstabbed me.
My best friend got HIV from his wife.
(found out after their divorce).
So I choose my

own path. But the majority of women locally seemed to want to be 'wined and dined' from the beginning.
I have no

money to be spending money on dates for a month or so to hear 'I am not interested anymore.'

So any good tips

on relocating to somewhere where the ladies are a higher percentage of my type?

Seems like in traveling the

coastal and northern states have more openminded ladies. I am smack dab in the 'bible belt'.For 23, you

have a good grip on things, if you're speaking your true thoughts. :thumbsup: I've been that way all my life. In

areas where money is plentiful, you'll find the kind of women you're looking for. Tis vonderful to have someone

that want's you for YOU, and not what you have in which they can get. How strange is it ... when men have money,

they have a choice of many women, but when women have money, their choices are limited. I will not, knowingly, be a

piece of soeone's missing puzzle, but I would happily build a puzzle with someone worthy. Yes, coastal as in

Cali, and northern as in DC and up ... where the money is plentiful, and chances of finding someone that's really

after companionship are great! Stay the course. Don't let lack of change you, as it does sooooo many.

BRAVO ZULU, Signor Nich!

nichirenx

11-21-2004, 10:38 PM

For

23, you have a good grip on things, if you're speaking your true thoughts. :thumbsup: I've been that way all my

life. In areas where money is plentiful, you'll find the kind of women you're looking for. Tis vonderful to have

someone that want's you for YOU, and not what you have in which they can get. How strange is it ... when men have

money, they have a choice of many women, but when women have money, their choices are limited. I will not,

knowingly, be a piece of soeone's missing puzzle, but I would happily build a puzzle with someone worthy.

Yes, coastal as in Cali, and northern as in DC and up ... where the money is plentiful, and chances of finding

someone that's really after companionship are great! Stay the course. Don't let lack of change you, as it

does sooooo many.

BRAVO ZULU, Signor Nich!
I am building towards those goals.
Pursuing

online/weekend training in electronic/computer engineering and will probably go into physics and mechanical

engineering later.

Its refreshing to be myself, but it alienated most of my family because they cannot seem to

respect my choices. Tis sad when we cannot live different yet in peace and communication.

I have been through

a whole lot in my short years.
Muchas Gracias for the good wishes
Mobley - well appreciated.

surfs_up

11-22-2004, 07:14 AM

To answer question one. One hour with a nice girl w/ tip if you know what to look for in a big city

should be about $300... you can pay more and get less, many often do

When my little padruga was at the top of

her game she charged $400 hr and most guys said that was a screaming bargain...

A higher level place like

Mona Lisa Models in New York City will run you $600 hr however the girls are a lot more "accomodating".... I prefer

less accomodating for health reasons... you don't know how many other guys they've accomodated before

you

Top end, blow the doors in, porn star experience, with stunninngly beautiful women, NY Confidential is

the spot, can run between $1200-$2000 and HOUR... too, too expensive in my way of looking at it, they guys who do go

rate these girls 10/10 (ten for looks, ten for performance)

If, and when you mutually decide maybe you'd

like to hang out and do non-sex business related things, have dinner, go walking, take pictures, rent an F-16 for

the afternoon and practice air combat, hang glide over active volcanos, have an audience with the Pope, or other

typical things, that's known as "going off the clock".

On the clock or off the clock you can meet some

pretty far out people if your mind is prepared for the experience, imperfect, human people with their share of

problems, true, one thing that escorts learn to do by instinct is powerfully associate or powerfully dissociate, far

more so than average people are able, its an unconsciously learned skill...

That means they can really,

really BE with you, the best ones, the top level, as my padruga defintitely was, it isn't about physical sex so

much as this mind boggling capacity to be totally focused on your being, the Vulcan mind meld... then they can "go

away" into their own private mental spaces so deeply they become pure psychological silence, like an ancient

obsidian mirror. It is then strange to be back with civvies who don't have this wide range of hyper-thereness/

hyper-not thereness. I think I learned a massive amount about pure being, how to be totally focused on another

person.

a.k.a.

11-22-2004, 11:35 AM

One hour with a nice

girl w/ tip if you know what to look for in a big city should be about $300.

Wow. That's good money.

How much of that is tip, and how much goes back to the escort service?i

surfs_up

11-22-2004, 12:54 PM

a part of an article you might find interesting:

"On a recent weekday afternoon, Orlando Pita,

hairdresser to celebrities like Jennifer Connelly, Naomi Campbell and Kirsten Dunst, received a client in his new

salon, Orlo, on the third floor of a nondescript walkup on Gansevoort Street.

Mr. Pita, 42, stood mesmerized

behind the woman's brunet head, puzzling in a way that suggested he was examining a compelling piece of abstract

art. He worked in monastic silence, his scissors venturing only the most tentative stabs. With each move, he stepped

back, occasionally blowing the hair with a drier, watching the way it waved under the heat, his brow pressed in

concentration.

The entire process lasted about 80 minutes. And each minute cost about $10: Mr. Pita charges

$800 for a haircut. "

If you're a regular, typical hour is $250, tip is $50, normally you aren't expected

to tip indies, only agency or house girls, but generosity is the best lubricant...

That easily better than

setting up a date, hitting a decent restaurant, putzing around town, doing the romantic crap unless you're

genuinely in the mood for romantic, then some nights the girls at the sex place are mediocre, so that's sort of a

waste, you're out of there quickly though, other times you hit paydirt, hot stuff, if you're in the mood, you can

see two girls in a row, or two at the same time, always like having one flavor of sex with one girl, then another

hour of a different flavor, black girl, chinese, venezuelan, native american...

eric_pelletier_tw

11-22-2004, 09:13 PM

watcher:totaly

agree!
For me (in dont speek by past experience) pros are nothing more than doing a job
& that is the way it

shoud be well acounted,legislated et overseen.
I'm a virgin(male) at 27 & i dont like that idea i keep looking for

a GF but with no success.The dating seen is kinda hard on me... ?badluck?

I also started to think that it

might release some of the stress to have sex with a payed girl. it may be a solution ... but with STDs & all that

stuff man is it hard to pick up that phone .Also note i dont realy have a big budget...

As for morality think

of it as a need sex is like food a need so why is it legal to sell food
simple : its a NEED!! so since so many

single male (also female btw) need to get some
it should be legalised (especialy when you think weapons who do

far more damage are legal ...)

i was listening to a doCULmentary (an interview on a XXX dvd) this guy said "we

see war,blood,killig, horror,movies on TV so why somthing NATURAL as a body of ppl repoducing(btw we see animals

reproducing all the time on TV we are some of those no?) should be so restricted ?" --may not be word for word

so i think this sex shouldnt be that much restricted,more prone... (we should restrict more science lab specialy

the chemichal warfare labs...oh! did your realy think all those sickness where natural ?)

ps: wow! did i ever

wrote so much in here? :P

Gegogi

11-22-2004, 09:56 PM

"I'm a virgin(male) at 27

& i dont like that idea i keep looking for a GF but with no success.The dating seen is kinda hard on me...

?badluck?"
Normally I wouldn't say this, but at 27 it's time to go with a pro. Just wear a raincoat.

j5fakt0r

11-22-2004, 11:18 PM

:wave:
Normally I

wouldn't say this, but at 27 it's time to go with a pro. Just wear a raincoat.
I don't see why it's so

restricted either, but I don't think you should have ur first experience with a hooker... Most of em ain't that

great anyways... a one nite stand might suit you better but in all truth i'd save the first time for somebody

special.

Watcher

11-23-2004, 12:20 AM

27 go with a hooker.

Elvis

11-23-2004, 02:54 AM

Surfs up...you are da f/ man

(no arse licking intended...well not literally) :thumbsup:

I have agreed with you often through this thread. My

personal view is that the human spirit and it's emotions/responses have not kept up with the lightning fast changes

in society. I realise prostitution is the oldest vocation on earth, but when I say fast changes, I mean it may take

tens of thousands of years for this aspect of mankind to evolve.

We have the bodies, the technology and all the

rest of the crap...but taboos will exist for a long time to come because of imperfect emotional systems. Why is it

that the natural instinct of man is to conquer all and sundry, shag everything in sight, if emotionally speaking he

can only have one wife? Should our instincts evolve to our emotions or vice-versa? You cannot control instinct, but

we can make an effort with our emotions.

For me, sex and love are two different systems...each operating

individually/independantly from the other.

I'm glad you had the guts to come out and share your experiences

with us despite their childish taboos in "society".

Thanks man.

surfs_up

11-23-2004, 11:49 AM

many of the padruga's gentleman aquaintances were high level guys, respected

family men, corporate executives, pillars of the community types, ministers... many of them rich, ambitious,

powerful who had married to advance their ambitions, gain more power, make more money by being attached to dynamic,

materialistic, social climbing women. There weren't any innocents in this game. They had willingly traded peace of

mind, the chance to be oneself when one pleased, not having to keep the facades up at all times for their shot at

the big time. These are not men who can afford the reputation as womanizers or be seen hitting the trashy clubs.

That's where talented women like her come in. Absolutely discreet, not too flashy or obvious, punctual,

businesslike, and as many men described it, capable of giving them the experience of their first great lay in high

school. They got to be 17 and carefree for an hour or two, then return to their schedules, their church, their

proper wives, the country club, good reasonable republican suburbs and expensive educations... all the while they

are tormented with visions of dancing sluts, natives pounding on log drums, eunechs bearing hookahs filled with

afghan hasish, the girls locker room, Miss January running her perfectly lacquered finernails down their backs... it

should come as little surprise that her #1 city for business was Washington DC.

WildBillTD

11-23-2004, 01:37 PM

I

think Journeyman is essentially correct in his well-thought out, if wordy, post. But it's even more appropriate in

an internationl context. I'm 48 and have spent 8-9 years of my adult life living overseas in 5 countries in Latin

America & the Caribbbean. I've also travelled extensively in Europe and have spent time in Thailand. I realized

many years ago the value of just picking out exactly the type of woman I want that night and paying for it. No

frustrations, no BS, no STD's (use condoms always)! Just fun. The problem is coming back to the States where it's

all messed up, IMO. The USA, which I love and would give my life defending, has too many girleymen, metrosexuals, &

militant homosexuals. You'll pay for it anyway, so go & get what you want when you need it!!

bjf

11-23-2004, 01:49 PM

So it doesn't bother either of you

guys the number of penises that share your space, sort of speak? What about all the man-spit that has been

deposited on their nipples?

Or was that something that did bother you, and you just learned to get over it?

surfs_up

11-23-2004, 02:26 PM

Sure, there are nasty, funky no self respect skank ho types which we carefully avoid. The better ones are near

clean freaks, they shower, they soap down. I think there are a whole passel of stereotypes that are mixed up in the

public imagination. In practice there are substantial differences. A good place will have a stack of freshly

laundered towels, fresh sheets, a clean bathroom, listerine mouthwash, pump hand sanitizer. Experienced travellers

will always have their own listerine mouthwash and sanitizer to wipe down with after the festivities. It comes in

cute little bottles. The most important skill you need to develop to play this game is how to suss out the level of

the situation in a blink. A place that shows lack of care for hygeine, is disorderly, reeks of cigarette smoke,

people are rude or demanding, or people that seem druggy, emotionally off base, too hyper or too dazed, spot that

quick and bail out. I have been in situations where I've paid up, then things turned weird, I would walk out

without looking back, forget the money, not worth the grief. After a while you know the ropes, you read the

discussion boards, you know what's clean and what isn't.

bjf

11-23-2004, 02:35 PM

No, I know they take showers, I am

just have a little thing against the imagery of hundreds or thousands of men being where I am. But that's ok,

probably my own thing.

So, I thought escort services always made house calls. It sounds like YOU go to

them?

BTW, did you ever get in a situation where you tried to talk a girl out of being in the business?

Also, do they get repulsed by the men or all of them just are so good at blocking it out that a nasty guy becomes

routine?

WildBillTD

11-23-2004, 02:53 PM

eric_pelletier_tw

11-23-2004, 05:35 PM

simple awnser : soap 3

times that is & a bath :P

surfs_up

11-24-2004, 09:27 AM

Had to go to a friend's party the other night. There were some cute civi women there, they knew how to

stay on the right side of the line between sexy and trash... whatever, they knew they were flaunting it, obviously,

you wouldn't put it out there like that if you weren't fishing for a reaction on some level... wine was ordered,

some of the guys were getting into it, converstion flowed, and..... it was sooooo stupid, so banal... the mindless

crap these folks were bantering about, do squirrels that never leave their cages think thoughts like these ? I was

thinking an introspective thought, in years past, how often had I sat around engaged in similarly brain dead

superficial social interactions basically on the long shot that I might score ? How pathetic is that ?

Rewind

mental tape to 5 days ago. I check in for some R&R at the sex place. There is an delightful girl there, deeply into

meditative practices, I'm loaded to the gills with high octane mones. We have great touchy feely sex. Then an

incredible mind opening, energizing conversation. The mones have this property of sometimes giving you direct access

to other people's states of consciousness. I pick up a deep Baghwan hit that stays with me for days, a pretty

profound shift in my conscious state. The sex gave me a direct hook up to her meditative energy.

Back to the

party... after the massive injection of Baghwan Sex-Consciousness-Jah Rasta One Love-Superjuice and hanging around

in civiland I am struck, possibly a little shocked, and how low and flat that psychic energy is among these folks,

they appear to have sex ocassionally and it doesn't connect them to much. But there's none of the clarity, the

sense of fresh mind-body connection, just drifting chitter chatter. Yes, the this is so much like unto the that, you

don't say, that's just precious, the that is as well so much like unto the this.... snooooooore... my head was

imploding so I took one more glance at the beautiful lady with her argon filled brain as she was discussing the

spices that they roasted the peanuts with, and thought, only out of courtesy to my friend who invited me did I waste

one hour of my time here....

sprayit

11-24-2004, 10:11 AM

Quote: “ fishing for a

reaction on some level... wine was ordered, some of the guys were getting into it, converstion flowed ... I was

thinking an introspective thought, in years past, how often had I sat around engaged in similarly brain dead

superficial social interactions basically on the long shot that I might score ? How pathetic is that

?”

Amen brother.

Although I don't see it a pathetic necessarily, it's just (natural) libido

doing its best to survive in a civilised (artificial) environment. They know no different, they're practicing what

the moral authorities have preached to them and all that stuff. Still, I think a lot of guys might be jealous that

you've let go of the small talk climate most of us choose out of ignorance

PheroExplorer

11-25-2004, 08:16 AM

A little green man from a

nearby planet came to earth. He wanted to get to know mor details about the human race, women in partikular and

maybe even understand them (we all would like to...).

He started to segment the US in West and East.

First he visited a place in LA, where he met hundrets of young human beeings every morning, half of them female.

They talked silly things and to his mind they behaved totally irrational. He could not help hyperbeamthinking 'All

his self-respect he looses when such company he chooses'.
The next place he went to was in a city at the east

coast, where he met hundrets of young females every morning too. But unlike the first place, attending this place

cost him a lot of money. But here he had interesting conversations, insights and ideas.

Back to mars, he

wrote a file for his superiors, that all women in the west were childish and irrational, wheras those at the

eastcoast were entirely different, more educated, professional and even significantly taller.

After he did

so well, comparing westcoast girls at a public kindergarden downtown LA with eastcoast girls from the Harvard

Campus, he received honors and a DVD with an earthly song from the beachboys ("The east coast girls...").

His

next project was comparing well educated, well chosen, well travelled and highly paid hookers to a carefully

selected bunch of uneducated, narrow minded, stubborn and superficial business-/housewives with egocentric

behaviour.

At least his choice of what he would compare to what would always lead to obvious diffences and

allow clear statements, confirming his perceptions.

SweetBrenda

11-25-2004, 09:44 AM

:type: I read every single

reply from this thread.
( sooo much to read,, wow!!)
What an interesting discussion.
I would give the author of

this topic some rep. You seem very honest/open. (but your rep is off)
I may not agree with some of your points of

view I still understand where you are coming from.
Everyone have some pretty good points of view & some very

"unique" lol
( I like Pancho's mind:lovestruc ) Silver I like what you said and I totally agree with you.

To

me is pretty basic I wouldn't pay for sex or get paid for it either. :nono:
For me is all about the four letter

word (love I know what you dirty minds were thinking hahaha) because you give and

recieve without having to $$ pay for it.

Love:

L-

icking

O-

rgasm

V-

E-

xtasy
:blink: Okay I'm stuck with V LOL....

surfs_up

11-25-2004, 11:55 AM

My rep is off ? I didn't rep anyone off, so that can't be it. My sales rep isn't

working today ? I now have a bad reputation ?
No comprendo, expand this meaning for us dumbo Martians,

puleeze...

Obviously you can't establish a one to one correspondence between every feature of civi life and

life on the edge, however the analogy with a naive extraterrestrial explorer sort of misses the point, although it

is an amusing analogy.

The concept of "a whore" may be socially uncomfortable, as we sell our time, our

energy, our services legitimately on the open market... what precisely does it mean to be a whore ? Is an attorney

who litigates a class action lawsuit that he knows to be of questionable merit a whore ? Or one who shamelessly

overbills his clients, does mediocre work, and then becomes indignant when his client questions his integrity ? The

fact is that a large percentage, by no means all attorneys, are as much whores, if not more so, than people selling

sexual services. Pretty much the whole court system in Brooklyn has been revealed to be for sale, a hundred plus

thousand dollars got you a judge's position where you had tremendous power over other's lives. Would you say the

Brooklyn judicial system is populated by whores, people who will sell anything for money, have no sense of honor,

for whom a totally corrupted existence is "business as usual" ? Is the FDA run by whores who let dangerous drugs on

the market which are obscenely overpriced for the American consumer and nobody lifts a finger while the billions

roll in, are these people whores ? Are state lotteries that are targeted at low income citizens with the endless

scratch off cards and sleazy hustles they push at every convenience store conceived and operated by whores, that is

to say, persons of no conscience ? Are people whose egos require them to own gigantic SUVs who serve no purpose but

to impress their neighbors, guzzle millions of gallons of petroleum resources, crowd parking spaces, and drive like

mindless assholes while they discuss pizza toppings on the cell phone and cut you off on the freeways, are they

whores, showing off their surfaces ? Who exactly are the whores here?

surfs_up

11-25-2004, 12:08 PM

quoted

from above:

"His next project was comparing well educated, well chosen, well travelled and highly paid

hookers to a carefully selected bunch of uneducated, narrow minded, stubborn and superficial business-/housewives

with egocentric behaviour.

At least his choice of what he would compare to what would always lead to obvious

diffences and allow clear statements, confirming his perceptions."

This wasn't the case. These (the group I

was critical of) were a fairly sophisticted, in a relative sense, group of cultural people in Manhattan, they were

in no way, shape or form narrow exurban housewives or anything close to that. That's what shocked me. These were

liberal beings who think of themselves as sexually enlightened, they can write well enough, have published things,

part of the culture machine, some film production, West Bumdork it isn't.

Have_Courage

11-25-2004, 12:11 PM

##########

Silver

11-25-2004, 12:20 PM

Once again,

Journeyman has nailed it! There's nothing, I repeat, nothing better than being in a room at "La Riviera" or "El

Caribe" in Old San Juan, P.R. with a Heinekin in one hand, a joint in the other hand, a $20 bag of "Playboy" in your

pocket and an 18 yo Colombian cutie just sent in for a couple of weeks to earn dollars. Or being in Thailand with

incredible, incredible babes from Thailand/Laos/Cambodia. Or, for that matter, being in Mexico or the Dominican

Republic with 3 women/girls at a time! Even though I do not drink/drug any more, this is reality in many parts of

the world and quite a nice reality at that! Either you can relate or you can't. Anybody with me?
Leaving

all thoughts of love and emotions aside, as I respect everyone's different and very valid views on such things, do

you realize how much crime you are supporting in order to live out this "international playboy" dream sequence?

Remember that if you find such an incredible thai babe here in the US, she's most likely held prisoner there

illegally, with her passport held hostage by some pimp. The problem of human trafficking did not die with the civil

war, it is very real and very present and the UN struggles with it almost every session despite the fact that it is

just about a useless body now.

In an ideal world of theory, prostitution would not be an issue of morality. If

there were only high class prostitutes who choose what they do and don't fund a drug ring or crime lord, then each

person should feel no guilt going to a prostitute if they so desire. Having said that, we live in a less than

perfect world, and prostitution funds and is funded by some of the shadier aspects of our world. This doesn't

apply to many of your high class girls. Some of the classy whores are run by madams in an establishment soley for

the purpose of prostitution. But a portion of even these high class prostitutes fund large crime lords and operate

as part of their ring. Something to ponder.

~Silver

sprayit

11-25-2004, 12:31 PM

Identifying the 'whore'

phenomenon in all fields of employment, whilst valid in attempt to de-stigmatize the word, it entirely evades the

bigger question:

Why is the prostitution industry client base predominantly male, if women supposedly have an

equal libido? In a world where males want sex for sex's sake more often than females, money seems the most

convenient compensation. It makes perfect rational sense.

“Love” was mentioned above. Possibly

one of the most subjective and imprecise words I can think of. Broadly speaking, when a self identifying woman says

she wants “love” I believe she otherwise stating she wants to be ongoingly worshiped as a manifestation

of awe and wonder in a sense that constantly reassures her that the male will hang around long enough in sheer

romantic fascination so as to contribute to the raising of the kids. That's love for her.

When a self

identifying man says he wants “love” I believe he is otherwise stating wants to feel as though the woman

or women in his life will not only serve him satisfactorily, but do so pro-actively, and demonstrate that she deeply

wants to do so as a matter of purpose. That's love for him.

Women ovulate a single cell every 4 weeks. Men

spray millions of cells every time they're sufficiently stimulated. To me, it's actually quite symbolic of the

different sexual perspectives men and women hold.

eric_pelletier_tw

11-25-2004, 01:24 PM

brenda: what about V

-oluptuous,"V-olage" & V-ideoxxx :P
sprayit got a point there there is diffrent angles here for Love
but what

the heck has love to do with it? we are talking about RAW reproduction
in other means SEX! love go to a bar & try

to seduce a girl for once if that is what you whant its soooo hard [quite the oposite for a woman!]

i figure

that last point like this: male can reproduce with several women in a given time frame & women cant so they make

sure we wont go here & there to plant seeds evry now & then (SPMs?) by a given concensus or simply enherited by mom

or somthing.
women wont date men who arent faitful (planting seeds evreywere) so that way they ensure fecondation

of a sole egg by there man.(instead of dozens:P)

im telling ya the give tags to men so they know who to date ...

unfortunatly they tag the wrong ones the good guys(it's called the let's be friends tag...)

that is why im for

Payed Sex Services.PSS has a fault in it. It's not too legal & fairly not legislated & totaly unmanaged by

authorities resulting in gansterism prostitution of minors drugs STDs all that stuff ... PSS is one of if not the

oldest job on this planet
so why the hell isnt it accepted : Girls ! Why bcause it treatens the consensus & there

monopoly over there man !

That is what i think makes perfect sense no ?the woman pushes her holy man so that he

makes rules against it but still the men whant it so they make illegal but dont put the funds against it :P so that

in bad luck they can come back to it....

---------------------------
Read theories against humanity :P j/k

surfs_up

11-25-2004, 01:33 PM

I can't speak for every participant. I don't do sex tourism. If the vibe isn't right, I

don't participate. The only women I'll deal with are doing this out of choice. I've never been in a place that

had any sense of traffic in women. I have been known plenty of women who are single mothers who are trying to pay

down their credit card debt. The credit card industry can now charge rates of interest that were once regarded as

usurious, and illegal. Only the mob once charged interest rates like that. Now it's the way things are. These women

do what they feel is in their best economic interest. They also enjoy the sex. Motherhood doesn't stop the sexual

drive, it seems. The great irony here is that the place where the wiseguys have got their hooks in is the

pornography industry, especially the material that is generated in Eastern Europe and Russia.... Somehow, porno is

on its way to being legitimate entertainment, merging with the soft porn T+A numbers that girl musical acts now

emulate, all of this pioneered by our buddies in Las Vegas, which has made the great leap from Myer Lansky

laundering millions from his mexican heroin operations through the casinos to the "new" sexy Vegas, like the ad says

"what happens in vegas, stays in vegas"... indeed. BTW, the Vegas scene has a pretty bad reputation, qualitywise.

Well, anyway, the big money is in the distribution of sex fantasies. The Devil, as always, is in the details. There

are places, if you know how to find them, low key, off the radar, decent people, adult women, not teenyboppers, free

will sex between consenting free agents, no slaves. Mob guys have always preferred running the strip clubs, its more

their style, easier to manage, makes a freaking ton of money, fewer law enforcement hassles, more of less the

genesis of the whole Las Vegas Experience, does it bother your conscience that every nickel that goes into a slot

machine in Las Vegas, Reno, etc... is feeding a monster mob based system that has slowly morphed into legitimate,

eeeeech... entertainment ?