View Full Version : What really works
Hi all just want to ask
what kind sould i buy and by the way im a man.
So what kind really works and what kind is the best. Oh by the way
i need someing that will work on 14 to 16 yr. old girls lol thx.
Chikara, SOE unscented, Wagg-None are
all good choices.
Pancho1188
11-15-2004, 01:27 PM
I'll save everyone the
trouble of responding. Most people will recommend the following products:
1. Newbie pack (TE ---that is, "The
Edge" + other fun stuff) - Sexual/Alpha/Masculine presence
2. Chikara - Social/Sexual effects...some of the best
recent hits stories come from this
3. Perception - Time-release, good overall mix of -mones; water-based;
consistency
4. SOE - Friendly, talkative, social, safe/secure
5. AE - Similar to Perception with its balance but
alcohol-based; social/sexual hits
Run a search for those products and read to find out which one of those you'd
like the best. Read the newbie FAQ. Hell, read anything. It's all there, just look for it! :)
DeMoKiLL
11-15-2004, 01:36 PM
Ah this helps me as well,
seeing as im also a younger member on the board. With SOE, a lot of people get close to me and everyone is talkative
and friendly. It also has a positive impact on my mood. Another suggestion would be Perception, it lasts a long time
and it keeps any scent lasting for hours. Haven't tried chikara, but will soon.
btw - fix the typos, kthx
Alright cool thx see im trying to
get this 13 yr. old girl soon to be 14 to go out with me. lol and i am 16 but she is tall and hot. So im going to
ask her to go see a moive with me or go to the mall or something. She the kind of girl that wont date you if you
dont know her. So im guessing im going to have to go places with her and be nice and crap and this stuff sould help
alot.
Pancho1188
11-15-2004, 02:30 PM
She the kind of
girl that wont date you if you dont know her. So im guessing im going to have to go places with her and be nice and
crap and this stuff sould help alot.
That kind of attitude might get you into trouble... :lol: ...but to
each his own...I'd recommend that you attempt to keep it in your pants long enough to take an interest in her as a
person and maybe that would get you 'in' better...but that's just my style...I remember how hard it is to live
like that when you're a hormonally-charged teenager... :twisted:
lol well i not doing that 1# i will
get soe bci really want to get to know her and date her.
DeMoKiLL
11-15-2004, 03:55 PM
lol well i not
doing that 1# i will get soe bci really want to get to know her and date her.'
uh.. you could start by
saying hi? If you want her to become more friendly and trusting with you, I would try SOE with her first while
talking with her. SOE will keep her talking and she will be friendly while doing it. Even if you have nothing to
talk about SOE seems to start conversations over practically anything.
that what i really need + man i
dont even know if she saying where not going out bc her mom reads all of what she typs and anyone typs to her on
msn. and + she said yes to going out with me last monday. and now saying she was jokeing and now saying she dont
even know me. man isnt that how ppl start dateing by just meeting them. well i will get soe and stuff bc she is shy
and i am to unless i know them.
We was going to go friday to see a
moive but my freind girl freind dad said where to old and tall and htink we have cars and crap. So my mom talk to
her mom and worked that all out. I really do want to go out with her and get to know her as well have sex later on
lol.
So hey what kind of SOE sould i
get. The 80 bucks one? or will that gel stuff work in ways that you said demokill.
CptKipling
11-15-2004, 04:47 PM
13? Maybe try someone closer to
your age.
All judgement aside, the maturity difference must be very obvious.
Yea, I have a feeling she's more
mature than him.
Kris, you can get whatever number of gel packets you want or buy the roll on, which is 50
bucks I think.
DeMoKiLL
11-15-2004, 05:57 PM
>.< typo's so many typo's!
Please use a spellchecker, anything! If your looking to date this girl only to get sex, your going to be very
disappointed. If you want to get to know her just say "Lets go to (so and so resteraunt or a movie or something) I
know a place that has great blah blah.." Just make it seem very casual as if you were going to dinner with a friend.
Then on the date you can get to know her well, and who knows she may not be what your looking for.
Well i dont know that yet, and have
to give that a try. So anyways i hope the gel does get girls to be nicer and talk alot and crap. For now if i dont
get this girl, then i dont know where to go to. There are no clubs to go to, and finding someone in the mall hard.
PS. Where i use to go to get all the girls is to go to football games, but there is no more so i guess i wait till
they start.
luckyhorse
11-15-2004, 06:49 PM
go with perception+ npa it
works for me but do experiment with your application as i found out recently the 1 or 2 sprays was not enough i use
4 but have yet to try 5 i'am a little chicken of the od lol!
Gegogi
11-15-2004, 07:16 PM
I recommend waiting until you and
the girls are done growing before resorting to pheromone use. Plus, 13 or 14 years old is 2 or 3 years shy of the
age of consent in most places. If you must use 'mones, try SOE or WAGG. Forget about NPA, TE or PI. Of course if
you use NPA, TE or PI you may have to deal with "hits" off your mother's friends or shool teachers. Now I know why
there's been a rash of older female shool teachers chasing after 15 year old boys.
luckyhorse
11-15-2004, 07:30 PM
i tell you when i wasin
junior high i couldhave used some of that chasing there was a lot of hot teachers
lol yeah im going to go with soe
and get to know her i really want to get to know her and date her anyways. Also duh i want to have sex with her
later on some time lol. but for now soe. Oh and thx for the help.
Newbie gal
11-16-2004, 06:50 PM
I feel worried. Bruce, you
should talk to Kris.
If he had to talk to every teenager
who came on her wanting to have sex with another teenager.......well, I'm not sure he would have time to sell
pheromones. If you want to talk to Kris, by all means go ahead.
Silver
11-16-2004, 07:46 PM
*rolls her eyes*
Agreed, bjf.
Kris, you should seriously reevaluate your priorities.
*shudders at the idea of 13 year olds having sex*
Snoopy
11-16-2004, 08:08 PM
When I was 13 I played Super
Nintendo :blink:
Holmes
11-16-2004, 08:25 PM
There are no clubs to
go to, and finding someone in the mall hard. PS. Where i use to go to get all the girls is to go to football games,
but there is no more so i guess i wait till they start.
Try Hollywood Boulevard.
1# of all the girl that i think
really does like me bc i heared alot from her and her freinds. and 2# she 13 going on 14 and im 16 oging on 17 in
2005. 3# she is tall and hot and i reall want to go out with her and get to know her. and duh dont you all know when
you run into someone you dont even know and your both hot you start talking and might go out the next day or same
day or something like that. + like i said she dont date ppl she dont know so im going to get to know her and crap. i
just buyed the soe gel so im waiting for that to come now. we might go see a moive or go to the mall or something
the day after friday.
I.ll wait of bit be4 i get chikara
to make her want to have sex with me lol.
CollegeStudent
11-16-2004, 09:19 PM
I.ll wait of
bit be4 i get chikara to make her want to have sex with me lol.
Dude all joking aside, you want to go
to jail? 13, 14, 15 its all underage, and 16 is still underage in lots of states. I know what you are going
through, but if you want sex that bad you need to find someone that is legal.
Snoopy
11-16-2004, 09:29 PM
Chikara by itself won't totally
"maker her want to have sex with you" either. -mones add to your game, they don't replace it... plus I don't think
any (normal) girl under 15 would jump at having sex with someone.
Newbie gal
11-16-2004, 09:33 PM
Kris, are you planning to be
a father soon? Think before you leap.
Well some do if there that kind of
a girl. or a girl that want sex. but betting the girl im going for nerver did be4. so i bet not but anyways sex or
not. i want to get to know her and go out with her.
oh and hey jail? yeah right if a
girl under 18 want to have sex with me and i have a place where we can. she might tell her freinds butn ot her mom
or dad. or anything so i dont see how i would go to jail im not going to make any one have a kid or anything
CollegeStudent
11-16-2004, 09:54 PM
oh and hey
jail? yeah right if a girl under 18 want to have sex with me and i have a place where we can. she might tell her
freinds butn ot her mom or dad. or anything so i dont see how i would go to jail im not going to make any one have a
kid or anything
If you say so, ive been there done that. Their parents WILL find out.
CptKipling
11-17-2004, 09:42 AM
1# of all the girl
that i think really does like me bc i heared alot from her and her freinds. and 2# she 13 going on 14 and im 16
oging on 17 in 2005. 3# she is tall and hot and i reall want to go out with her and get to know her. and duh dont
you all know when you run into someone you dont even know and your both hot you start talking and might go out the
next day or same day or something like that. + like i said she dont date ppl she dont know so im going to get to
know her and crap. i just buyed the soe gel so im waiting for that to come now. we might go see a moive or go to the
mall or something the day after friday.
Whoa, step back a second.
She's 13, are you sick?
That
means she is only just a teenager.
If you had met her last year would you have said, "Well, she's 12 going
on 13, and kinda tall..."
What's so special about this girl anyway, are there not any girls closer to your
age around?
Anyone need a soapbox?
bottomfisher
11-17-2004, 09:45 AM
Trust me, Use Alter Ego
with Jovan Musk as cover. You can get Jovan Musk in most drug stores. The combo really works.. you may find that
it actually changes your behavior also... will make you more confident.. and she will see that in you.
Everyone: I wouldn't worry about
this. Looking at this kid's attitude, it's not going to last even if they do get into a relationship.
Kris,
I strongly suggest you wait a few years before you experiment with pheromones. Or at least try it out with girls
your own age. You don't want to get sexually involved with a minor. It's not worth the risk.
Knuuttipukki
11-17-2004, 11:48 AM
Yea...You should avoid
"jailbaits"
Pancho1188
11-17-2004, 12:30 PM
Whoa, step
back a second.
She's 13, are you sick?
That means she is only just a teenager.
If you had met her last
year would you have said, "Well, she's 12 going on 13, and kinda tall..."
What's so special about this
girl anyway, are there not any girls closer to your age around?
Anyone need a soapbox?
I'll
take it. I need it to go off on a defensive rant...
...I love how quickly adults forget what it was like to be
a teenager. Cap'n, of all people I thought you'd be understanding as one of the 'youngest oldest members of the
forum', if you get what I mean.
Geez...doesn't anyone remember high school? The freshmen girls date
the senior guys. Many don't even consider dating guys within one or two years of them...and older women? Ha! You
can forget about senior/college girls going out with junior or younger guys. Let's put these into numbers, shall
we? Freshman girls are 13-14 (don't say there are no freshman 13-year olds because I was a 13-year old
freshman---I turned 14 in the third month of my freshman year), and they're going out with 17-18 year old seniors.
This is the norm for the 'popular', 'cool' crowd as highlighted and stereotyped in so many 80's/90's
teen movies and TV shows. (I'm not saying this is the only thing, I'm saying it was and probably still is the
popular thing to do. Hell, I remember my freshman classmates dating seniors...just 8-9 years ago)
Getting a
little clearer than just a number now? Plus, he is only 16, so it's not stat. rape or against the law unless he
forces it on her. In many states, it's someone over 18 and someone under 18 (someone posted a link to the actual
laws in each state in another thread), but there have been recent laws such as the '4-year rule' to prevent
seniors from getting arrested for consensual sex with anyone else in their high school (14-18, 15-19, 16-20 okay as
long as it's consensual). Forgive me if there's some 16-13 law that I've overlooked somewhere. Plus, girls
today are doing their best to look older. I remember seeing this girl on my bus (I posted this somewhere) who I
would've guessed as 17 at first glance until inconsistencies showed up and I guessed her at 14...to which she then
even proved me wrong again by getting off at the stop for the middle school...boy, I was fooled (I blame my
poor eyesight that prevented clear signs of youth)...which is why Kris keeps saying 'tall and hot' or whatever
because obviously she's doing a good job of looking older and she's probably ahead of her peers in growth if she
has the height of someone older.
Okay, now that I've reminded everyone what it's like to be in high
school...
Everyone is right about the sex part, though. I hope teens understand the risks. I know everyone
thinks they're invincible as teens, so that's why I say that just makes your 'super-sperm' more capable of
hitting the target. ;) Watch out. Be safe. It's not worth 6 seconds of pleasure for a month (or even lifetime) of
fear. Just saying, "I'm not going to get anyone pregnant," isn't going to make it true unless you do what you
have to in order to make sure it doesn't happen.
Just make sure that everything you do is consensual or you'll
see me on the other side as the first person to put a fist to your face. :hammer:
Holmes
11-17-2004, 12:52 PM
Okay, now that
I've reminded everyone what it's like to be in high school...
Yeah, thanks.
:D
bottomfisher
11-17-2004, 12:54 PM
Yep, those "jailbaits" can
really get you in trouble. My son had twin girls out of wedlock with a "Jailbait" type, but we love those girls
just as much as our other grandkids. My son has been paying, and will pay, child support for a long time.
As my
dad use to say "to keep out of trouble, keep those pants on". Wish now I had told my son the same thing. Also
Underage sex could wind you in jail with a rape charge.
belgareth
11-17-2004, 01:28 PM
As the father of a 13 year old
girl and two older girls, I wonder what her parents are thinking about all this. Maybe I'm old fashioned but there
is no way on earth my daughter would be going anywhere with a 16 year old guy.
Pancho1188
11-17-2004, 02:27 PM
As the father
of a 13 year old girl and two older girls, I wonder what her parents are thinking about all this. Maybe I'm old
fashioned but there is no way on earth my daughter would be going anywhere with a 16 year old guy.
Obviously not too old-fashioned...Romeo and Juliet were 13 and under...of course, their parents were against their
love as well... :lol:
That said, Jewish boys become men at 13...some sign of life before the invention of the
'teenager'...the teenager was actually 'invented' after WWII when parents had large disposable incomes and kids
took longer and longer to 'grow up'...before then, you were an adult by 13...PG13 would've been R-rated movies
back then...
Actually, Bel, I would call you new-fashioned because you represent pretty much every parent for
the past few decades (if not longer). I'll be the same way when I get older and have kids...after all, where would
we be without hypocrisy? ;) As much as I'd like to be the trusting, understanding dad that says, "Look, I know
you'll start to be interested in guys, and it's your own decision to make what you do. However, I strongly
suggest you think about the consequences..." I'm totally going to be the, "Don't you do anything or I'll ground
you for life!" "Come on, Dad. You must've done this stuff when you were a kid!" "No, I didn't. I never drank,
smoked, did drugs, and I've never had sex with anyone under 18. That's your punishment for having a Dudley
Do-Right father!"
InternationalPlayboy
11-17-2004, 02:46 PM
but for
the sex part it a maybe. and that not really big worry or anything. i dont cum in there gumming holes
lol.
Translation please? Do you mean you pull out before ejaculation? That is a very poor method of
birth control. There is sperm released in the "pre-cum" (for want of a better word) that the male produces for
lubrication purposes. That can get a female pregnant. The only 100% effective form of birth control is abstinence
(not counting sterilization). Even the pill has only something like a 98% success rate.
Pancho1188
11-17-2004, 03:16 PM
Translation please? Do you mean you pull out before ejaculation? That is a very poor
method of birth control. There is sperm released in the "pre-cum" (for want of a better word) that the male produces
for lubrication purposes. That can get a female pregnant. The only 100% effective form of birth control is
abstinence (not counting sterilization). Even the pill has only something like a 98% success rate.
I
consider 'Triple Protection' to be effective...Pill + Condom + Spermicide = over 99.9% protection...I'll take
those odds...if you want to be extra careful, pull out (there is an actual 'failure rate' for pulling out---I
think around 20% or 30%...I want to know how they calculated that one... :lol: ). If I remember correctly, even
'tubes tied' and snipping the 'teste tube' have failure rates (of like .0001% or something).
CollegeStudent
11-17-2004, 03:21 PM
I think its 99.something%
for the pill, depending on the pill I guess. Condoms are in the high 80 percent right? I would suggest two forms
at once, to combine the chances together. Also there is supposed to be male oral contraceptive out or coming out
soon. Anyone know anything about that?
InternationalPlayboy
11-17-2004, 03:23 PM
If I remember correctly, even 'tubes tied' and snipping the 'teste tube' have failure rates (of like .0001% or
something).
You're right, I edited in the sterilization remark as an afterthought.
I just
recently heard of a man who had a vasectomy and didn't realize there was a period of about a month afterward before
he was actually sterile. He fathered a child.
Pancho1188
11-17-2004, 03:44 PM
That's why you never hear,
"NO KIDS OR YOUR MONEY BACK!" as a catchline... ;) ;)
I didn't mean to disagree with you, IP. I believe that
those things are pretty permanent once completed correctly. I was just being ultra-technical, as usual. :)
belgareth
11-17-2004, 03:50 PM
Obviously not
too old-fashioned...Romeo and Juliet were 13 and under...of course, their parents were against their love as well...
:lol:
That said, Jewish boys become men at 13...some sign of life before the invention of the
'teenager'...the teenager was actually 'invented' after WWII when parents had large disposable incomes and kids
took longer and longer to 'grow up'...before then, you were an adult by 13...PG13 would've been R-rated movies
back then...
Actually, Bel, I would call you new-fashioned because you represent pretty much every parent for
the past few decades (if not longer). I'll be the same way when I get older and have kids...after all, where would
we be without hypocrisy? ;) As much as I'd like to be the trusting, understanding dad that says, "Look, I know
you'll start to be interested in guys, and it's your own decision to make what you do. However, I strongly suggest
you think about the consequences..." I'm totally going to be the, "Don't you do anything or I'll ground you for
life!" "Come on, Dad. You must've done this stuff when you were a kid!" "No, I didn't. I never drank, smoked, did
drugs, and I've never had sex with anyone under 18. That's your punishment for having a Dudley Do-Right
father!"
Maybe my biggest concern is they'll meet somebody just like I was. In truth, a parent has to
teach their daughters and rely on them to make good decisions because you can't be there every minute. I'm quite
sure my 17 year old daughter is sexually active and regard it as her business. She knows the facts, it's taught in
my household starting at a young age so they don't learn BS from their friends. It's the best way to protect them,
tell them the truth. I might see things differently if she was dating a guy 21 years old but she isn't. But IMO, a
13 year old is too young to date.
Mtnjim
11-17-2004, 05:46 PM
"... but for the sex part it a
maybe. and that not really big worry or anything. i dont cum in there gumming
holes..."
WHOOP!WHOOP!WHOOP! (Red lights
flashing!!)
EMERGENCY, Sex Education class NOW, stat!!! :nono:
"...bc of herm om and dad. saying that
i am to old and they think i drive and have lots of girl freinds and want to have sex with
her..."
AND
"... i will get to know her and date her. but for the sex part it a maybe..."
"... and
i have been geting sex from girls sent i was 14..."
Sounds like her mom has got you pegged!! :run:
By
the way, I'm being a hypocrite, I lost my "V" when I was 14 to a 13 year old!
Silver
11-17-2004, 05:53 PM
I'm sorry, when I was 13 my
dream date, like not even how I actually dated, consisted of holding hands and sharing a rootbeer float. It's not
about age, it's about maturity, and a 13 year old is in no way, shape, or form physically or mentally mature enough
to be having sex. Period. Your lack of knowledge of the subject of sex, how to get pregnant, not to mention your
lack of knowledge of grammar and spelling, clearly indicates that you, as well, are not mature enough. Pulling out
can easily get her pregnant. Even condoms are not foolproof. And having sex with a 13 year old is plain illegal.
I hope you seriously reconsider not only your actions but your mindset. If you ever want to talk, feel free to pm
me or anything.
Best of luck,
~Silver
Silver:
Maybe the boy holding
the rootbeer float was dreaming of having sex with you. Actually "maybe" is too weak a word.
Could you
imagine the 13 year old reading this thread? With all of the people talking about her having sex, she'd probably
be wondering, "wait a second....don't I get any say in the matter?"
Gegogi
11-17-2004, 06:12 PM
"mym om talk to her mom
and tould her im nice andb elivei n god and jesus and wouldnt do anything wrong... but for the sex part it a maybe.
and that not really big worry or anything. i dont cum in there gumming holes lol."
God, Jesus and
"gumming holes." Now that's something to be LOL about! Where do you put your cum then? The Bible says to spew your
seed on the ground is an abomination unto the Lord.
ironfire
11-17-2004, 08:18 PM
Plus, girls today are doing
their best to look older. I remember seeing this girl on my bus (I posted this somewhere) who I would've guessed as
17 at first glance until inconsistencies showed up and I guessed her at 14...to which she then even proved me wrong
again by getting off at the stop for the middle school...boy, I was fooled (I blame my poor eyesight that
prevented clear signs of youth)...which is why Kris keeps saying 'tall and hot' or whatever because obviously
she's doing a good job of looking older and she's probably ahead of her peers in growth if she has the height of
someone older.
Pancho, you absolutely right. I dated a girl who is a freshmen and I was a Junior at that time.
She looks older, tall, full figure, and very mature. People just thought that we were in the same age group. So
don't worry about it, enjoy your youth while you still young. Just don't get caught "having sex" from the police
or her parent. Get a room not in the backseat cause I got caught that way.
http://pherolibrary.com/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif
________
Mexico
city hotels (http://mexicocityhotel.info)
Snoopy
11-17-2004, 10:27 PM
yeah and i see your
the only one here that is not dumb ironfire. and mtnjim you dumbass it a nick name same as bazooka, tool, cock,
dick, and so many more nick names for the dick lol or boobies or a$$ or anything you dumba$$ and i know more about
sex anyways i dont cum in her down there or where she oculd have ak id dumba$$ and yes i started jacking off when i
was 12 or 13 and start haveing sex with hot girls that i could get when i was 14 up till now and now looking for a
diff girl. but for real i want to get to know this girl and date her and even maybe fall in love or whatever. right
now im only getting soe anyways.Whoa there, I think a lot of the comments made in that post were really
unnecessary. First of all, I'm not DUMB, nor do I think anyone else who'se contributed to this thread is. Everyone
here is just trying to give their valuable 2 cents here, as we are all together on the same team and want to support
each other and help each other do well in what it is we do. Second, I don't see where mtnjim questioned what a
"gumming hole" was. I'm sorry, but maybe I'm missing out on all the hip new lingo too, but I myself have never
heard of it being called a "gumming hole" before. Third, I don't care when you started jacking off. Also, if you
could get sex with hot girls when you were 14, what's stopping you from getting this girl who I also assume is
"hot"? I'm tired of reading this thread.
-- End rant.
PS: At your age I think you should be focusing on
other things (such as English homework for example) rather than sacking jail bait.
Pancho1188
11-18-2004, 07:32 AM
I'm sorry, when
I was 13 my dream date, like not even how I actually dated, consisted of holding hands and sharing a rootbeer float.
It's not about age, it's about maturity, and a 13 year old is in no way, shape, or form physically or mentally
mature enough to be having sex. Period. Your lack of knowledge of the subject of sex, how to get pregnant, not to
mention your lack of knowledge of grammar and spelling, clearly indicates that you, as well, are not mature enough.
Pulling out can easily get her pregnant. Even condoms are not foolproof. And having sex with a 13 year old is plain
illegal.
I hope you seriously reconsider not only your actions but your mindset. If you ever want to talk, feel
free to pm me or anything.
Best of luck,
~Silver
I would have to state that the first part is
inaccurate...and I point out that if it's not about age but maturity and 13 isn't old enough to be mature, then
you're essentially stating that it is about age...when it is purely maturity and you cannot assume that a
13-year old is not mature enough without knowing that person without bias (although I guess that's impossible since
all adults will see kids as too young...which is why your post probably made perfect sense to anyone over the age of
18 despite the logical loophole).
You are physically mature enough to have sex at 13 if you've hit puberty
(most kids have). After all, if you weren't, you wouldn't be able to have it (or wouldn't even want to). 8 year
olds are not physically mature enough to have sex. Once you hit puberty, though, I believe that makes you physically
mature enough. In fact, the problem with teenagers is that they become physically mature enough to have sex, but
society has changed in a way that makes it both hard for a teenager to become mentally mature enough as well as the
danger of having a child so young (unlike hundreds/thousands of years ago, children are more of a burden than a
benefit).
Secondly, whose fault is it that there is a lack of knowledge or mental maturity? Hell, my school was
great. They taught me everything there was to know about sex right at the beginning of my sexual development. I knew
exactly what was going on and everything about sex (of course, I was mature for my age, so I guess it would not be
for everyone). Because of that, I stayed away from sex for a couple of years. I thank my teachers for caring enough
to educate me instead of saying, "You're not old enough!" Everyone knows that saying that will just make a youth
want to do it more...research has shown that a youth is more likely to stay away or be responsible when it comes to
sex if you talk about it like they were a mature human being instead of a two-year old.
I believe Belgareth has
the right mix as he said he talked to his children like mature adults, letting them make their own decisions (which
statistically shows that they're more likely to abstain) while still being the overprotective father they know and
love by keeping them away from the horndog older guys.
That all said, Silver's 100 percent right about the
pregnancy part. Although I find it hypocritical that adults use scare tactics and then go out and have sex without
worrying about getting pregnant because they used the pill and a condom with spermicide. Obviously, though, an adult
is much more capable of taking care of a child if the need arose, another difference from hundreds/thousands of
years ago when all you needed to do was carry it around, feed it, and give it love while farming or hunting and
gathering. I highly doubt even college students living it up and having sex with random people are psychologically
prepared to have children, but nobody's yelling at them... :nono:
I have a question for everyone:
Where does it say that two minors having consensual sex is illegal? The term 'jailbait' is used for minors that
will get anyone 18+ sent to jail faster than you can say, "I thought she was 19..." A 16/13-year old sexual
experience is not illegal. Now, upset parents may cry 'rape' whether it was consensual or not, but there's not a
law against it if it was consensual. Was Mtnjim's sexual encounter illegal because he was 14 and she was 13? I
didn't realize that 16-year olds were legally adults. We should give them voting privileges.
It's also ironic
that most movies with teen sexual activity in the 80's were ~PG-13, meaning 13-year olds are capable of watching
teens their age (please ignore that all actors in those movies are 18 pretending to be 14-16 :frustrate ) go through
the sexual problems/encounters they experience every day but they obviously are too young to understand it.
Again, I'm not saying teens should have sex...I'm saying that we should treat them like adults and maybe
they would actually act like adults. It worked for me, but everyone always said I was mature for my age (mind of a
adult, heart of a child, body of a teenager). The only thing that's changed since then is a few years tacked onto
the body. :hammer:
If your premise is "it worked for me"
don't you think that is too narrow of a test?
Plus a lot of school districts don't have the $ to have
such great sex ed programs like yours.
belgareth
11-18-2004, 09:10 AM
Pancho,
A couple points.
While a girl is physically capable of having sex at 13, her body is not ready for childbearing which is always a
possibility when you have sex. You mention that girls that age were having babies thousands of years ago but how
many of them died in childbirth and how many babies died? Do you know how long a person was likely to live during
that period? That is not a reasonable measure to judge by. There is also good medical evidence that a girl who
starts having sex that young is much more likely to develop female related problems later in life.
In some
states, for the purpose of sexual relations a sixteen year old is considered an adult and can be charged with rape.
In other states it is handled on a case by case basis in the courts.
Speaking again as a parent, there is a
great set of books, a boy's and a girl's version, called "What is happening to my body?". They are well written,
clear and concise with none of the BS, just facts about the human body and sexuality. It's designed to be given to
a kid so they can learn on their own. It also sends a message to the kid that you want them to know the truth and
will deal with them openly. I still remember the anti-drug classes in 7th grade. At least a third of the class knew
a big chunk of the info was BS so we didn't take any of it seriously. They tried to scare us away from drugs and it
didn't work because we knew they were lying. It would have been better to give us facts and encourage us to think
for ourselves. The same applies to sex. Teach them to be responsible people and help them make good decsions.
In
my opinion, it is NOT the school's job but the parents to teach the kids about sex.
Pancho1188
11-18-2004, 10:14 AM
Pancho,
A
couple points. While a girl is physically capable of having sex at 13, her body is not ready for childbearing which
is always a possibility when you have sex. You mention that girls that age were having babies thousands of years ago
but how many of them died in childbirth and how many babies died? Do you know how long a person was likely to live
during that period? That is not a reasonable measure to judge by. There is also good medical evidence that a girl
who starts having sex that young is much more likely to develop female related problems later in life.
In some
states, for the purpose of sexual relations a sixteen year old is considered an adult and can be charged with rape.
In other states it is handled on a case by case basis in the courts.
Speaking again as a parent, there is a
great set of books, a boy's and a girl's version, called "What is happening to my body?". They are well written,
clear and concise with none of the BS, just facts about the human body and sexuality. It's designed to be given to
a kid so they can learn on their own. It also sends a message to the kid that you want them to know the truth and
will deal with them openly. I still remember the anti-drug classes in 7th grade. At least a third of the class knew
a big chunk of the info was BS so we didn't take any of it seriously. They tried to scare us away from drugs and it
didn't work because we knew they were lying. It would have been better to give us facts and encourage us to think
for ourselves. The same applies to sex. Teach them to be responsible people and help them make good decsions.
In
my opinion, it is NOT the school's job but the parents to teach the kids about sex.
Good points on all
counts. It's hard because everything mentioned varies person-to-person and state-to-state.
As for the last
point: true and right...but it's not going to happen. Parents are relying on schools to teach kids everything
now...that and television, that is... :hammer: They are introducing personal finance classes in many schools so
students know how to do things like balance a check book and use credit cards responsibly because parents don't
teach them...sex is a part of health class and it should be taught as part of talking about the human body and
reproduction. Parents are so uncomfortable talking to their kids about sex that they'd rather ignore it and stick
with the, "Don't do it!" approach, which is bad. If they're not going to do it, someone should. I think
it's better to offer sex ed programs in inner city schools than to only offer daycare...an ounce of prevention...
:POKE:
Silver
11-18-2004, 10:21 AM
No pancho, it isn't about age,
it's about maturity IN GENERAL, but at 13 no one has reached that maturity, physically or mentally. There's
nothing wrong with this statement logically. In general, whether or not one is ready for sex is about maturity. A
16 year old may be ready while his 19 year old brother is not. However, 13 year olds just CANNOT be ready. Sure,
they've hit puberty, and they CAN have sex, but that doesn't mean they should. After you hit puberty, your body
continues to change throughout puberty, and you mind is still slowly gets ready for these changes well after puberty
has ended. I don't believe that those just hitting puberty should have sex until they have a good grip on their
hormones and aren't having sex for the wrong reasons.
As for knowledge, by the age of 13, most students have
been given the basic "what's happening to my body?" talk about puberty, but sex ed usually hasn't happened yet.
They are very different things. In most public schools, kids get the puberty talk when they are 10 or 11, but do
not get the talk on sex, prevention, the possible consequences until they are 14 or 15, if at all since as bjf said
many cannot afford it.
Oh, and about the college students? I AM yelling at those who have sex with random
people without seriously having considered what they would do if they got pregnant. I think none of us are ever
really ready to have children at this age, and most college students definitely aren't, but at least they've
considered it and have a few options. You don't have to be psychologically prepared for childen, but you must be
psychologically prepared for the possibility of children.
Perhaps there exists out there a 13 year old
ready to have sex. Perhaps she started going through puberty when she was 8 and is done now. Perhaps she
completely understands how sex works, what can and cannot get her pregnant, and what prevention she can use.
Perhaps she even is pyschologically prepared for the possibility of children. I personally still don't think that
she should, but under these circumstances I am willing to concede that she is capable of making that decision
herself, and best of luck to her. Kris, with his lack of knowledge of how pregnancy can occur, clearly does not
fall into this type.
Pancho, I'm not saying that schools should teach the "you're too young for sex!" method.
I know quite well that this would be useless. However, sex ed should be taught in schools with great emphasis on
the consequences, while still friendly, communicative, and helpful. The above is how I would debate an issue and
present my views to adults, but not how I would teach my children. It's ridiculously obvious that there are better
ways to educate and raise children that will think before they leap.
~Silver
Pancho1188
11-18-2004, 10:22 AM
If your premise is
"it worked for me" don't you think that is too narrow of a test?
Plus a lot of school districts don't have
the $ to have such great sex ed programs like yours.
Like I said, research indicates that informed people
make better decisions (probably applies to most things, actually).
As for the $$$, the program involved a couple
of films and a couple of days in health class. The problem isn't money but the protesting parents that say they
don't want schools talking about sex. They think that talking about it promotes it, which anyone who studies the
subject (and countless public service announcements) would tell them otherwise.
DeMoKiLL
11-18-2004, 01:35 PM
yea but the 13 year old might
be a bit smarter ;-)
Pancho1188
11-18-2004, 02:47 PM
No pancho, it
isn't about age, it's about maturity IN GENERAL, but at 13 no one has reached that maturity, physically or
mentally. There's nothing wrong with this statement logically. In general, whether or not one is ready for sex is
about maturity. A 16 year old may be ready while his 19 year old brother is not. However, 13 year olds just CANNOT
be ready. Sure, they've hit puberty, and they CAN have sex, but that doesn't mean they should. After you hit
puberty, your body continues to change throughout puberty, and you mind is still slowly gets ready for these changes
well after puberty has ended. I don't believe that those just hitting puberty should have sex until they have a
good grip on their hormones and aren't having sex for the wrong reasons.
As for knowledge, by the age of 13,
most students have been given the basic "what's happening to my body?" talk about puberty, but sex ed usually
hasn't happened yet. They are very different things. In most public schools, kids get the puberty talk when they
are 10 or 11, but do not get the talk on sex, prevention, the possible consequences until they are 14 or 15, if at
all since as bjf said many cannot afford it.
Oh, and about the college students? I AM yelling at those who have
sex with random people without seriously having considered what they would do if they got pregnant. I think none of
us are ever really ready to have children at this age, and most college students definitely aren't, but at least
they've considered it and have a few options. You don't have to be psychologically prepared for childen, but you
must be psychologically prepared for the possibility of children.
Perhaps there exists out there a 13
year old ready to have sex. Perhaps she started going through puberty when she was 8 and is done now. Perhaps she
completely understands how sex works, what can and cannot get her pregnant, and what prevention she can use. Perhaps
she even is pyschologically prepared for the possibility of children. I personally still don't think that she
should, but under these circumstances I am willing to concede that she is capable of making that decision herself,
and best of luck to her. Kris, with his lack of knowledge of how pregnancy can occur, clearly does not fall into
this type.
Pancho, I'm not saying that schools should teach the "you're too young for sex!" method. I know
quite well that this would be useless. However, sex ed should be taught in schools with great emphasis on the
consequences, while still friendly, communicative, and helpful. The above is how I would debate an issue and present
my views to adults, but not how I would teach my children. It's ridiculously obvious that there are better ways to
educate and raise children that will think before they leap.
~Silver
:goodpost:
I'm only going
to argue your first point again with the caveat that maturity is a subjective measurement, meaning my definition is
different than yours and therefore we'll naturally see each other as 'wrong'. I see physical maturity as
capability. In other words, if you can get an erection, bring yourself to orgasm, and ejaculate with healthy semen
(you cannot get a girl pregnant for the first few months of generating semen because it is still developing, which
is why I use the term healthy), you are sexually mature. You are physically mature to have sex. After all, that's
why your body has hormones in the first place...to get you to have sex. To sound like those sex ed tapes, "This
happens around 9-11 for girls and 10-12 for boys (note: some say 10-12 and 11-13---as early as 8 and as late as
14---depending on what you see)."
The thing is that society and biology don't agree anymore. That used to be
when you were supposed to have sex back in the day, but it's a whole new world when you have so much to lose now if
you end up reproducing. In that respect, the state of society now would go to your argument as teenagers have
neither the physical or mental capacity for parenthood in this society (and therefore the thing that causes it,
sex).
Again, you are stating physical maturity in a different manner, and therefore I guess we're both right as
long as we see it from our viewpoint. I'd say mental maturity is the same thing because in today's world you have
more to lose from reproduction and therefore must understand the consequences.
I agree with the rest of your
post and would like to note my appreciation of your giving me the benefit of the doubt and showing where our
arguments are really agreements.
belgareth
11-18-2004, 03:03 PM
By your definition then a girl
is not sexually mature as she is not yet capable of bearing a healthy child, which is the purpose of having sex.
Pancho1188
11-18-2004, 03:32 PM
By your
definition then a girl is not sexually mature as she is not yet capable of bearing a healthy child, which is the
purpose of having sex.
There are 13-year olds that are perfectly capable of bearing children. It happens
in many cultures, remember...the US isn't the only place on earth. :) Yes, the odds get better with age and then
eventually get worse with age, but I said capability/capacity. I'd have to give biology props by saying that
sexual feelings have to be at least a decent signal of reproductive preparedness.
This brings up an interesting
point, though, because some girls have sex before they really have the desire to, which is what Silver and others
brought up. This is when peer pressure, etc. catches up with them. Again, it differs on a case-by-case basis, to
which Silver and I are both willing to concede. I couldn't tell you that all 13-year olds are physically
mature...I don't believe that for a second. I just said that it's possible and it happens.
Gegogi
11-18-2004, 07:16 PM
My Korean grandmother and
grandfather had an arranged marriage. Believe it or not, grandpa was 11 and grandma 10 when the knot was tied! This
was in the 1920s, so not so long ago historically. You must realize not many people lived past 40 or 50 in those
days, so you had to get started early.
In recent years I've known two women that married at 14, so what the
hay. One is now in her late 20s and a student where I teach. It worked out for her.
Pherozen
11-19-2004, 03:13 AM
Hmm, I lost my virginity when I was
13, and I'm fine now. Actually think it made me mature quicker and I'm not as rediculously sex hungry as the rest
of my peers are. When I was 14 I had sex with a 13 year old girl. And you know what she is perfectly healthy and
is very mentally stable. Much more than what I can say about a lot of girls I know that lost their virginity at 18
or 19. Sure everybody can get pregnant, but education is clearly key, not judging. I've had condoms break, I've
had to get morning after pills. There are somethings that you can't stop. I've been getting tested every 3-6
months since I was 15. Don't perform cunnilingus unless I receive STD test results from the girl, which believe it
or not most girls do. Always use a condom, luckily the breaks were from monogomous relationships. Sh*t happens, I
got to get the awkwardness out of sex at an earlier age and I wouldn't have it any other way. Although it may
sound like I'm all for this, um Kris I think that 13 years old for a 16 year old is rediculous. Remember what you
were like at 13? At least go for a freshman in highschool. I mean 13 is what 8th grade? I know it's just one
year, but a LOT changes during the transition to middle to high school.
Newbie gal
11-20-2004, 08:19 AM
Just go to the movies, play
video games, play tennis, whatever. There are lots of things you can do with a 13 year old and be happy. Why does
it have to be sex?
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