What really works

[Kris]

Hi all just want to ask

what kind sould i buy and by the way im a man.
So what kind really works and what kind is the best. Oh by the way

i need someing that will work on 14 to 16 yr. old girls lol thx.

[bjf]

Chikara, SOE unscented, Wagg-None are

all good choices.

[Pancho1188]

I'll save everyone the

trouble of responding. Most people will recommend the following products:

1. Newbie pack (TE ---that is, "The

Edge" + other fun stuff) - Sexual/Alpha/Masculine presence
2. Chikara - Social/Sexual effects...some of the best

recent hits stories come from this
3. Perception - Time-release, good overall mix of -mones; water-based;

consistency
4. SOE - Friendly, talkative, social, safe/secure
5. AE - Similar to Perception with its balance but

alcohol-based; social/sexual hits

Run a search for those products and read to find out which one of those you'd

like the best. Read the newbie FAQ. Hell, read anything. It's all there, just look for it! :)

[DeMoKiLL]

Ah this helps me as well,

seeing as im also a younger member on the board. With SOE, a lot of people get close to me and everyone is talkative

and friendly. It also has a positive impact on my mood. Another suggestion would be Perception, it lasts a long time

and it keeps any scent lasting for hours. Haven't tried chikara, but will soon.

btw - fix the typos, kthx

[Kris]

Alright cool thx see im trying to

get this 13 yr. old girl soon to be 14 to go out with me. lol and i am 16 but she is tall and hot. So im going to

ask her to go see a moive with me or go to the mall or something. She the kind of girl that wont date you if you

dont know her. So im guessing im going to have to go places with her and be nice and crap and this stuff sould help

alot.

[Pancho1188]

She the kind of

girl that wont date you if you dont know her. So im guessing im going to have to go places with her and be nice and

crap and this stuff sould help alot.
That kind of attitude might get you into trouble... :lol: ...but to

each his own...I'd recommend that you attempt to keep it in your pants long enough to take an interest in her as a

person and maybe that would get you 'in' better...but that's just my style...I remember how hard it is to live

like that when you're a hormonally-charged teenager... :twisted:

[Kris]

lol well i not doing that 1# i will

get soe bci really want to get to know her and date her.

[DeMoKiLL]

lol well i not

doing that 1# i will get soe bci really want to get to know her and date her.'
uh.. you could start by

saying hi? If you want her to become more friendly and trusting with you, I would try SOE with her first while

talking with her. SOE will keep her talking and she will be friendly while doing it. Even if you have nothing to

talk about SOE seems to start conversations over practically anything.

[Kris]

that what i really need + man i

dont even know if she saying where not going out bc her mom reads all of what she typs and anyone typs to her on

msn. and + she said yes to going out with me last monday. and now saying she was jokeing and now saying she dont

even know me. man isnt that how ppl start dateing by just meeting them. well i will get soe and stuff bc she is shy

and i am to unless i know them.

[Kris]

We was going to go friday to see a

moive but my freind girl freind dad said where to old and tall and htink we have cars and crap. So my mom talk to

her mom and worked that all out. I really do want to go out with her and get to know her as well have sex later on

lol.

[Kris]

So hey what kind of SOE sould i

get. The 80 bucks one? or will that gel stuff work in ways that you said demokill.

[CptKipling]

13? Maybe try someone closer to

your age.

All judgement aside, the maturity difference must be very obvious.

[bjf]

Yea, I have a feeling she's more

mature than him.

Kris, you can get whatever number of gel packets you want or buy the roll on, which is 50

bucks I think.

[DeMoKiLL]

>.< typo's so many typo's!

Please use a spellchecker, anything! If your looking to date this girl only to get sex, your going to be very

disappointed. If you want to get to know her just say "Lets go to (so and so resteraunt or a movie or something) I

know a place that has great blah blah.." Just make it seem very casual as if you were going to dinner with a friend.

Then on the date you can get to know her well, and who knows she may not be what your looking for.

[Kris]

Well i dont know that yet, and have

to give that a try. So anyways i hope the gel does get girls to be nicer and talk alot and crap. For now if i dont

get this girl, then i dont know where to go to. There are no clubs to go to, and finding someone in the mall hard.

PS. Where i use to go to get all the girls is to go to football games, but there is no more so i guess i wait till

they start.

[luckyhorse]

go with perception+ npa it

works for me but do experiment with your application as i found out recently the 1 or 2 sprays was not enough i use

4 but have yet to try 5 i'am a little chicken of the od lol!

[Gegogi]

I recommend waiting until you and

the girls are done growing before resorting to pheromone use. Plus, 13 or 14 years old is 2 or 3 years shy of the

age of consent in most places. If you must use 'mones, try SOE or WAGG. Forget about NPA, TE or PI. Of course if

you use NPA, TE or PI you may have to deal with "hits" off your mother's friends or shool teachers. Now I know why

there's been a rash of older female shool teachers chasing after 15 year old boys.

[luckyhorse]

i tell you when i wasin

junior high i couldhave used some of that chasing there was a lot of hot teachers

[Kris]

lol yeah im going to go with soe

and get to know her i really want to get to know her and date her anyways. Also duh i want to have sex with her

later on some time lol. but for now soe. Oh and thx for the help.

[Newbie gal]

I feel worried. Bruce, you

should talk to Kris.

[bjf]

If he had to talk to every teenager

who came on her wanting to have sex with another teenager.......well, I'm not sure he would have time to sell

pheromones. If you want to talk to Kris, by all means go ahead.

[Silver]

*rolls her eyes*

Agreed, bjf.

Kris, you should seriously reevaluate your priorities.

*shudders at the idea of 13 year olds having sex*

[Snoopy]

When I was 13 I played Super

Nintendo :blink:

[Holmes]

There are no clubs to

go to, and finding someone in the mall hard. PS. Where i use to go to get all the girls is to go to football games,

but there is no more so i guess i wait till they start.

Try Hollywood Boulevard.

[Kris]

1# of all the girl that i think

really does like me bc i heared alot from her and her freinds. and 2# she 13 going on 14 and im 16 oging on 17 in

2005. 3# she is tall and hot and i reall want to go out with her and get to know her. and duh dont you all know when

you run into someone you dont even know and your both hot you start talking and might go out the next day or same

day or something like that. + like i said she dont date ppl she dont know so im going to get to know her and crap. i

just buyed the soe gel so im waiting for that to come now. we might go see a moive or go to the mall or something

the day after friday.

[Kris]

I.ll wait of bit be4 i get chikara

to make her want to have sex with me lol.

[CollegeStudent]

I.ll wait of

bit be4 i get chikara to make her want to have sex with me lol.

Dude all joking aside, you want to go

to jail? 13, 14, 15 its all underage, and 16 is still underage in lots of states. I know what you are going

through, but if you want sex that bad you need to find someone that is legal.

[Snoopy]

Chikara by itself won't totally

"maker her want to have sex with you" either. -mones add to your game, they don't replace it... plus I don't think

any (normal) girl under 15 would jump at having sex with someone.

[Newbie gal]

Kris, are you planning to be

a father soon? Think before you leap.

[Kris]

Well some do if there that kind of

a girl. or a girl that want sex. but betting the girl im going for nerver did be4. so i bet not but anyways sex or

not. i want to get to know her and go out with her.

[Kris]

oh and hey jail? yeah right if a

girl under 18 want to have sex with me and i have a place where we can. she might tell her freinds butn ot her mom

or dad. or anything so i dont see how i would go to jail im not going to make any one have a kid or anything

[CollegeStudent]

oh and hey

jail? yeah right if a girl under 18 want to have sex with me and i have a place where we can. she might tell her

freinds butn ot her mom or dad. or anything so i dont see how i would go to jail im not going to make any one have a

kid or anything

If you say so, ive been there done that. Their parents WILL find out.

[CptKipling]

1# of all the girl

that i think really does like me bc i heared alot from her and her freinds. and 2# she 13 going on 14 and im 16

oging on 17 in 2005. 3# she is tall and hot and i reall want to go out with her and get to know her. and duh dont

you all know when you run into someone you dont even know and your both hot you start talking and might go out the

next day or same day or something like that. + like i said she dont date ppl she dont know so im going to get to

know her and crap. i just buyed the soe gel so im waiting for that to come now. we might go see a moive or go to the

mall or something the day after friday.
Whoa, step back a second.

She's 13, are you sick?

That

means she is only just a teenager.

If you had met her last year would you have said, "Well, she's 12 going

on 13, and kinda tall..."

What's so special about this girl anyway, are there not any girls closer to your

age around?



Anyone need a soapbox?

[bottomfisher]

Trust me, Use Alter Ego

with Jovan Musk as cover. You can get Jovan Musk in most drug stores. The combo really works.. you may find that

it actually changes your behavior also... will make you more confident.. and she will see that in you.

[Fuse]

Everyone: I wouldn't worry about

this. Looking at this kid's attitude, it's not going to last even if they do get into a relationship.

Kris,

I strongly suggest you wait a few years before you experiment with pheromones. Or at least try it out with girls

your own age. You don't want to get sexually involved with a minor. It's not worth the risk.

[Knuuttipukki]

Yea...You should avoid

"jailbaits"

[Pancho1188]

Whoa, step

back a second.

She's 13, are you sick?

That means she is only just a teenager.

If you had met her last

year would you have said, "Well, she's 12 going on 13, and kinda tall..."

What's so special about this

girl anyway, are there not any girls closer to your age around?



Anyone need a soapbox?
I'll

take it. I need it to go off on a defensive rant...

...I love how quickly adults forget what it was like to be

a teenager. Cap'n, of all people I thought you'd be understanding as one of the 'youngest oldest members of the

forum', if you get what I mean.

Geez...doesn't anyone remember high school? The freshmen girls date

the senior guys. Many don't even consider dating guys within one or two years of them...and older women? Ha! You

can forget about senior/college girls going out with junior or younger guys. Let's put these into numbers, shall

we? Freshman girls are 13-14 (don't say there are no freshman 13-year olds because I was a 13-year old

freshman---I turned 14 in the third month of my freshman year), and they're going out with 17-18 year old seniors.

This is the norm for the 'popular', 'cool' crowd as highlighted and stereotyped in so many 80's/90's

teen movies and TV shows. (I'm not saying this is the only thing, I'm saying it was and probably still is the

popular thing to do. Hell, I remember my freshman classmates dating seniors...just 8-9 years ago)

Getting a

little clearer than just a number now? Plus, he is only 16, so it's not stat. rape or against the law unless he

forces it on her. In many states, it's someone over 18 and someone under 18 (someone posted a link to the actual

laws in each state in another thread), but there have been recent laws such as the '4-year rule' to prevent

seniors from getting arrested for consensual sex with anyone else in their high school (14-18, 15-19, 16-20 okay as

long as it's consensual). Forgive me if there's some 16-13 law that I've overlooked somewhere. Plus, girls

today are doing their best to look older. I remember seeing this girl on my bus (I posted this somewhere) who I

would've guessed as 17 at first glance until inconsistencies showed up and I guessed her at 14...to which she then

even proved me wrong again by getting off at the stop for the middle school...boy, I was fooled (I blame my

poor eyesight that prevented clear signs of youth)...which is why Kris keeps saying 'tall and hot' or whatever

because obviously she's doing a good job of looking older and she's probably ahead of her peers in growth if she

has the height of someone older.

Okay, now that I've reminded everyone what it's like to be in high

school...

Everyone is right about the sex part, though. I hope teens understand the risks. I know everyone

thinks they're invincible as teens, so that's why I say that just makes your 'super-sperm' more capable of

hitting the target. ;) Watch out. Be safe. It's not worth 6 seconds of pleasure for a month (or even lifetime) of

fear. Just saying, "I'm not going to get anyone pregnant," isn't going to make it true unless you do what you

have to in order to make sure it doesn't happen.

Just make sure that everything you do is consensual or you'll

see me on the other side as the first person to put a fist to your face. :hammer:

[Holmes]

Okay, now that

I've reminded everyone what it's like to be in high school...

Yeah, thanks.


:D

[bottomfisher]

Yep, those "jailbaits" can

really get you in trouble. My son had twin girls out of wedlock with a "Jailbait" type, but we love those girls

just as much as our other grandkids. My son has been paying, and will pay, child support for a long time.

As my

dad use to say "to keep out of trouble, keep those pants on". Wish now I had told my son the same thing. Also

Underage sex could wind you in jail with a rape charge.

[belgareth]

As the father of a 13 year old

girl and two older girls, I wonder what her parents are thinking about all this. Maybe I'm old fashioned but there

is no way on earth my daughter would be going anywhere with a 16 year old guy.

[Pancho1188]

As the father

of a 13 year old girl and two older girls, I wonder what her parents are thinking about all this. Maybe I'm old

fashioned but there is no way on earth my daughter would be going anywhere with a 16 year old guy.


Obviously not too old-fashioned...Romeo and Juliet were 13 and under...of course, their parents were against their

love as well... :lol:

That said, Jewish boys become men at 13...some sign of life before the invention of the

'teenager'...the teenager was actually 'invented' after WWII when parents had large disposable incomes and kids

took longer and longer to 'grow up'...before then, you were an adult by 13...PG13 would've been R-rated movies

back then...

Actually, Bel, I would call you new-fashioned because you represent pretty much every parent for

the past few decades (if not longer). I'll be the same way when I get older and have kids...after all, where would

we be without hypocrisy? ;) As much as I'd like to be the trusting, understanding dad that says, "Look, I know

you'll start to be interested in guys, and it's your own decision to make what you do. However, I strongly

suggest you think about the consequences..." I'm totally going to be the, "Don't you do anything or I'll ground

you for life!" "Come on, Dad. You must've done this stuff when you were a kid!" "No, I didn't. I never drank,

smoked, did drugs, and I've never had sex with anyone under 18. That's your punishment for having a Dudley

Do-Right father!"

[InternationalPlayboy]

but for

the sex part it a maybe. and that not really big worry or anything. i dont cum in there gumming holes

lol.

Translation please? Do you mean you pull out before ejaculation? That is a very poor method of

birth control. There is sperm released in the "pre-cum" (for want of a better word) that the male produces for

lubrication purposes. That can get a female pregnant. The only 100% effective form of birth control is abstinence

(not counting sterilization). Even the pill has only something like a 98% success rate.

[Pancho1188]

Translation please? Do you mean you pull out before ejaculation? That is a very poor

method of birth control. There is sperm released in the "pre-cum" (for want of a better word) that the male produces

for lubrication purposes. That can get a female pregnant. The only 100% effective form of birth control is

abstinence (not counting sterilization). Even the pill has only something like a 98% success rate.
I

consider 'Triple Protection' to be effective...Pill + Condom + Spermicide = over 99.9% protection...I'll take

those odds...if you want to be extra careful, pull out (there is an actual 'failure rate' for pulling out---I

think around 20% or 30%...I want to know how they calculated that one... :lol: ). If I remember correctly, even

'tubes tied' and snipping the 'teste tube' have failure rates (of like .0001% or something).

[CollegeStudent]

I think its 99.something%

for the pill, depending on the pill I guess. Condoms are in the high 80 percent right? I would suggest two forms

at once, to combine the chances together. Also there is supposed to be male oral contraceptive out or coming out

soon. Anyone know anything about that?

[InternationalPlayboy]

If I remember correctly, even 'tubes tied' and snipping the 'teste tube' have failure rates (of like .0001% or

something).

You're right, I edited in the sterilization remark as an afterthought.

I just

recently heard of a man who had a vasectomy and didn't realize there was a period of about a month afterward before

he was actually sterile. He fathered a child.

[Pancho1188]

That's why you never hear,

"NO KIDS OR YOUR MONEY BACK!" as a catchline... ;) ;)

I didn't mean to disagree with you, IP. I believe that

those things are pretty permanent once completed correctly. I was just being ultra-technical, as usual. :)

[belgareth]

Obviously not

too old-fashioned...Romeo and Juliet were 13 and under...of course, their parents were against their love as well...

:lol:

That said, Jewish boys become men at 13...some sign of life before the invention of the

'teenager'...the teenager was actually 'invented' after WWII when parents had large disposable incomes and kids

took longer and longer to 'grow up'...before then, you were an adult by 13...PG13 would've been R-rated movies

back then...

Actually, Bel, I would call you new-fashioned because you represent pretty much every parent for

the past few decades (if not longer). I'll be the same way when I get older and have kids...after all, where would

we be without hypocrisy? ;) As much as I'd like to be the trusting, understanding dad that says, "Look, I know

you'll start to be interested in guys, and it's your own decision to make what you do. However, I strongly suggest

you think about the consequences..." I'm totally going to be the, "Don't you do anything or I'll ground you for

life!" "Come on, Dad. You must've done this stuff when you were a kid!" "No, I didn't. I never drank, smoked, did

drugs, and I've never had sex with anyone under 18. That's your punishment for having a Dudley Do-Right

father!"
Maybe my biggest concern is they'll meet somebody just like I was. In truth, a parent has to

teach their daughters and rely on them to make good decisions because you can't be there every minute. I'm quite

sure my 17 year old daughter is sexually active and regard it as her business. She knows the facts, it's taught in

my household starting at a young age so they don't learn BS from their friends. It's the best way to protect them,

tell them the truth. I might see things differently if she was dating a guy 21 years old but she isn't. But IMO, a

13 year old is too young to date.

[Mtnjim]

"... but for the sex part it a

maybe. and that not really big worry or anything. i dont cum in there gumming

holes..."

WHOOP!WHOOP!WHOOP! (Red lights

flashing!!)

EMERGENCY, Sex Education class NOW, stat!!! :nono:

"...bc of herm om and dad. saying that

i am to old and they think i drive and have lots of girl freinds and want to have sex with

her..."

AND

"... i will get to know her and date her. but for the sex part it a maybe..."
"... and

i have been geting sex from girls sent i was 14..."

Sounds like her mom has got you pegged!! :run:

By

the way, I'm being a hypocrite, I lost my "V" when I was 14 to a 13 year old!

[Silver]

I'm sorry, when I was 13 my

dream date, like not even how I actually dated, consisted of holding hands and sharing a rootbeer float. It's not

about age, it's about maturity, and a 13 year old is in no way, shape, or form physically or mentally mature enough

to be having sex. Period. Your lack of knowledge of the subject of sex, how to get pregnant, not to mention your

lack of knowledge of grammar and spelling, clearly indicates that you, as well, are not mature enough. Pulling out

can easily get her pregnant. Even condoms are not foolproof. And having sex with a 13 year old is plain illegal.



I hope you seriously reconsider not only your actions but your mindset. If you ever want to talk, feel free to pm

me or anything.

Best of luck,
~Silver

[bjf]

Silver:

Maybe the boy holding

the rootbeer float was dreaming of having sex with you. Actually "maybe" is too weak a word.

Could you

imagine the 13 year old reading this thread? With all of the people talking about her having sex, she'd probably

be wondering, "wait a second....don't I get any say in the matter?"

[Gegogi]

"mym om talk to her mom

and tould her im nice andb elivei n god and jesus and wouldnt do anything wrong... but for the sex part it a maybe.

and that not really big worry or anything. i dont cum in there gumming holes lol."
God, Jesus and

"gumming holes." Now that's something to be LOL about! Where do you put your cum then? The Bible says to spew your

seed on the ground is an abomination unto the Lord.

[ironfire]

Plus, girls today are doing

their best to look older. I remember seeing this girl on my bus (I posted this somewhere) who I would've guessed as

17 at first glance until inconsistencies showed up and I guessed her at 14...to which she then even proved me wrong

again by getting off at the stop for the middle school...boy, I was fooled (I blame my poor eyesight that

prevented clear signs of youth)...which is why Kris keeps saying 'tall and hot' or whatever because obviously

she's doing a good job of looking older and she's probably ahead of her peers in growth if she has the height of

someone older.

Pancho, you absolutely right. I dated a girl who is a freshmen and I was a Junior at that time.

She looks older, tall, full figure, and very mature. People just thought that we were in the same age group. So

don't worry about it, enjoy your youth while you still young. Just don't get caught "having sex" from the police

or her parent. Get a room not in the backseat cause I got caught that way.

http://pherolibrary.com/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif
________
Mexico

city hotels (http://mexicocityhotel.info)

[Snoopy]

yeah and i see your

the only one here that is not dumb ironfire. and mtnjim you dumbass it a nick name same as bazooka, tool, cock,

dick, and so many more nick names for the dick lol or boobies or a$$ or anything you dumba$$ and i know more about

sex anyways i dont cum in her down there or where she oculd have ak id dumba$$ and yes i started jacking off when i

was 12 or 13 and start haveing sex with hot girls that i could get when i was 14 up till now and now looking for a

diff girl. but for real i want to get to know this girl and date her and even maybe fall in love or whatever. right

now im only getting soe anyways.Whoa there, I think a lot of the comments made in that post were really

unnecessary. First of all, I'm not DUMB, nor do I think anyone else who'se contributed to this thread is. Everyone

here is just trying to give their valuable 2 cents here, as we are all together on the same team and want to support

each other and help each other do well in what it is we do. Second, I don't see where mtnjim questioned what a

"gumming hole" was. I'm sorry, but maybe I'm missing out on all the hip new lingo too, but I myself have never

heard of it being called a "gumming hole" before. Third, I don't care when you started jacking off. Also, if you

could get sex with hot girls when you were 14, what's stopping you from getting this girl who I also assume is

"hot"? I'm tired of reading this thread.

-- End rant.

PS: At your age I think you should be focusing on

other things (such as English homework for example) rather than sacking jail bait.

[Pancho1188]

I'm sorry, when

I was 13 my dream date, like not even how I actually dated, consisted of holding hands and sharing a rootbeer float.

It's not about age, it's about maturity, and a 13 year old is in no way, shape, or form physically or mentally

mature enough to be having sex. Period. Your lack of knowledge of the subject of sex, how to get pregnant, not to

mention your lack of knowledge of grammar and spelling, clearly indicates that you, as well, are not mature enough.

Pulling out can easily get her pregnant. Even condoms are not foolproof. And having sex with a 13 year old is plain

illegal.

I hope you seriously reconsider not only your actions but your mindset. If you ever want to talk, feel

free to pm me or anything.

Best of luck,
~Silver
I would have to state that the first part is

inaccurate...and I point out that if it's not about age but maturity and 13 isn't old enough to be mature, then

you're essentially stating that it is about age...when it is purely maturity and you cannot assume that a

13-year old is not mature enough without knowing that person without bias (although I guess that's impossible since

all adults will see kids as too young...which is why your post probably made perfect sense to anyone over the age of

18 despite the logical loophole).

You are physically mature enough to have sex at 13 if you've hit puberty

(most kids have). After all, if you weren't, you wouldn't be able to have it (or wouldn't even want to). 8 year

olds are not physically mature enough to have sex. Once you hit puberty, though, I believe that makes you physically

mature enough. In fact, the problem with teenagers is that they become physically mature enough to have sex, but

society has changed in a way that makes it both hard for a teenager to become mentally mature enough as well as the

danger of having a child so young (unlike hundreds/thousands of years ago, children are more of a burden than a

benefit).

Secondly, whose fault is it that there is a lack of knowledge or mental maturity? Hell, my school was

great. They taught me everything there was to know about sex right at the beginning of my sexual development. I knew

exactly what was going on and everything about sex (of course, I was mature for my age, so I guess it would not be

for everyone). Because of that, I stayed away from sex for a couple of years. I thank my teachers for caring enough

to educate me instead of saying, "You're not old enough!" Everyone knows that saying that will just make a youth

want to do it more...research has shown that a youth is more likely to stay away or be responsible when it comes to

sex if you talk about it like they were a mature human being instead of a two-year old.

I believe Belgareth has

the right mix as he said he talked to his children like mature adults, letting them make their own decisions (which

statistically shows that they're more likely to abstain) while still being the overprotective father they know and

love by keeping them away from the horndog older guys.

That all said, Silver's 100 percent right about the

pregnancy part. Although I find it hypocritical that adults use scare tactics and then go out and have sex without

worrying about getting pregnant because they used the pill and a condom with spermicide. Obviously, though, an adult

is much more capable of taking care of a child if the need arose, another difference from hundreds/thousands of

years ago when all you needed to do was carry it around, feed it, and give it love while farming or hunting and

gathering. I highly doubt even college students living it up and having sex with random people are psychologically

prepared to have children, but nobody's yelling at them... :nono:



I have a question for everyone:



Where does it say that two minors having consensual sex is illegal? The term 'jailbait' is used for minors that

will get anyone 18+ sent to jail faster than you can say, "I thought she was 19..." A 16/13-year old sexual

experience is not illegal. Now, upset parents may cry 'rape' whether it was consensual or not, but there's not a

law against it if it was consensual. Was Mtnjim's sexual encounter illegal because he was 14 and she was 13? I

didn't realize that 16-year olds were legally adults. We should give them voting privileges.

It's also ironic

that most movies with teen sexual activity in the 80's were ~PG-13, meaning 13-year olds are capable of watching

teens their age (please ignore that all actors in those movies are 18 pretending to be 14-16 :frustrate ) go through

the sexual problems/encounters they experience every day but they obviously are too young to understand it.




Again, I'm not saying teens should have sex...I'm saying that we should treat them like adults and maybe

they would actually act like adults. It worked for me, but everyone always said I was mature for my age (mind of a

adult, heart of a child, body of a teenager). The only thing that's changed since then is a few years tacked onto

the body. :hammer:

[bjf]

If your premise is "it worked for me"

don't you think that is too narrow of a test?


Plus a lot of school districts don't have the $ to have

such great sex ed programs like yours.

[belgareth]

Pancho,

A couple points.

While a girl is physically capable of having sex at 13, her body is not ready for childbearing which is always a

possibility when you have sex. You mention that girls that age were having babies thousands of years ago but how

many of them died in childbirth and how many babies died? Do you know how long a person was likely to live during

that period? That is not a reasonable measure to judge by. There is also good medical evidence that a girl who

starts having sex that young is much more likely to develop female related problems later in life.

In some

states, for the purpose of sexual relations a sixteen year old is considered an adult and can be charged with rape.

In other states it is handled on a case by case basis in the courts.

Speaking again as a parent, there is a

great set of books, a boy's and a girl's version, called "What is happening to my body?". They are well written,

clear and concise with none of the BS, just facts about the human body and sexuality. It's designed to be given to

a kid so they can learn on their own. It also sends a message to the kid that you want them to know the truth and

will deal with them openly. I still remember the anti-drug classes in 7th grade. At least a third of the class knew

a big chunk of the info was BS so we didn't take any of it seriously. They tried to scare us away from drugs and it

didn't work because we knew they were lying. It would have been better to give us facts and encourage us to think

for ourselves. The same applies to sex. Teach them to be responsible people and help them make good decsions.

In

my opinion, it is NOT the school's job but the parents to teach the kids about sex.

[Pancho1188]

Pancho,

A

couple points. While a girl is physically capable of having sex at 13, her body is not ready for childbearing which

is always a possibility when you have sex. You mention that girls that age were having babies thousands of years ago

but how many of them died in childbirth and how many babies died? Do you know how long a person was likely to live

during that period? That is not a reasonable measure to judge by. There is also good medical evidence that a girl

who starts having sex that young is much more likely to develop female related problems later in life.

In some

states, for the purpose of sexual relations a sixteen year old is considered an adult and can be charged with rape.

In other states it is handled on a case by case basis in the courts.

Speaking again as a parent, there is a

great set of books, a boy's and a girl's version, called "What is happening to my body?". They are well written,

clear and concise with none of the BS, just facts about the human body and sexuality. It's designed to be given to

a kid so they can learn on their own. It also sends a message to the kid that you want them to know the truth and

will deal with them openly. I still remember the anti-drug classes in 7th grade. At least a third of the class knew

a big chunk of the info was BS so we didn't take any of it seriously. They tried to scare us away from drugs and it

didn't work because we knew they were lying. It would have been better to give us facts and encourage us to think

for ourselves. The same applies to sex. Teach them to be responsible people and help them make good decsions.

In

my opinion, it is NOT the school's job but the parents to teach the kids about sex.
Good points on all

counts. It's hard because everything mentioned varies person-to-person and state-to-state.

As for the last

point: true and right...but it's not going to happen. Parents are relying on schools to teach kids everything

now...that and television, that is... :hammer: They are introducing personal finance classes in many schools so

students know how to do things like balance a check book and use credit cards responsibly because parents don't

teach them...sex is a part of health class and it should be taught as part of talking about the human body and

reproduction. Parents are so uncomfortable talking to their kids about sex that they'd rather ignore it and stick

with the, "Don't do it!" approach, which is bad. If they're not going to do it, someone should. I think

it's better to offer sex ed programs in inner city schools than to only offer daycare...an ounce of prevention...

:POKE:

[Silver]

No pancho, it isn't about age,

it's about maturity IN GENERAL, but at 13 no one has reached that maturity, physically or mentally. There's

nothing wrong with this statement logically. In general, whether or not one is ready for sex is about maturity. A

16 year old may be ready while his 19 year old brother is not. However, 13 year olds just CANNOT be ready. Sure,

they've hit puberty, and they CAN have sex, but that doesn't mean they should. After you hit puberty, your body

continues to change throughout puberty, and you mind is still slowly gets ready for these changes well after puberty

has ended. I don't believe that those just hitting puberty should have sex until they have a good grip on their

hormones and aren't having sex for the wrong reasons.

As for knowledge, by the age of 13, most students have

been given the basic "what's happening to my body?" talk about puberty, but sex ed usually hasn't happened yet.

They are very different things. In most public schools, kids get the puberty talk when they are 10 or 11, but do

not get the talk on sex, prevention, the possible consequences until they are 14 or 15, if at all since as bjf said

many cannot afford it.

Oh, and about the college students? I AM yelling at those who have sex with random

people without seriously having considered what they would do if they got pregnant. I think none of us are ever

really ready to have children at this age, and most college students definitely aren't, but at least they've

considered it and have a few options. You don't have to be psychologically prepared for childen, but you must be

psychologically prepared for the possibility of children.

Perhaps there exists out there a 13 year old

ready to have sex. Perhaps she started going through puberty when she was 8 and is done now. Perhaps she

completely understands how sex works, what can and cannot get her pregnant, and what prevention she can use.

Perhaps she even is pyschologically prepared for the possibility of children. I personally still don't think that

she should, but under these circumstances I am willing to concede that she is capable of making that decision

herself, and best of luck to her. Kris, with his lack of knowledge of how pregnancy can occur, clearly does not

fall into this type.

Pancho, I'm not saying that schools should teach the "you're too young for sex!" method.

I know quite well that this would be useless. However, sex ed should be taught in schools with great emphasis on

the consequences, while still friendly, communicative, and helpful. The above is how I would debate an issue and

present my views to adults, but not how I would teach my children. It's ridiculously obvious that there are better

ways to educate and raise children that will think before they leap.

~Silver

[Pancho1188]

If your premise is

"it worked for me" don't you think that is too narrow of a test?


Plus a lot of school districts don't have

the $ to have such great sex ed programs like yours.
Like I said, research indicates that informed people

make better decisions (probably applies to most things, actually).

As for the $$$, the program involved a couple

of films and a couple of days in health class. The problem isn't money but the protesting parents that say they

don't want schools talking about sex. They think that talking about it promotes it, which anyone who studies the

subject (and countless public service announcements) would tell them otherwise.

[DeMoKiLL]

yea but the 13 year old might

be a bit smarter ;-)

[Pancho1188]

No pancho, it

isn't about age, it's about maturity IN GENERAL, but at 13 no one has reached that maturity, physically or

mentally. There's nothing wrong with this statement logically. In general, whether or not one is ready for sex is

about maturity. A 16 year old may be ready while his 19 year old brother is not. However, 13 year olds just CANNOT

be ready. Sure, they've hit puberty, and they CAN have sex, but that doesn't mean they should. After you hit

puberty, your body continues to change throughout puberty, and you mind is still slowly gets ready for these changes

well after puberty has ended. I don't believe that those just hitting puberty should have sex until they have a

good grip on their hormones and aren't having sex for the wrong reasons.

As for knowledge, by the age of 13,

most students have been given the basic "what's happening to my body?" talk about puberty, but sex ed usually

hasn't happened yet. They are very different things. In most public schools, kids get the puberty talk when they

are 10 or 11, but do not get the talk on sex, prevention, the possible consequences until they are 14 or 15, if at

all since as bjf said many cannot afford it.

Oh, and about the college students? I AM yelling at those who have

sex with random people without seriously having considered what they would do if they got pregnant. I think none of

us are ever really ready to have children at this age, and most college students definitely aren't, but at least

they've considered it and have a few options. You don't have to be psychologically prepared for childen, but you

must be psychologically prepared for the possibility of children.

Perhaps there exists out there a 13

year old ready to have sex. Perhaps she started going through puberty when she was 8 and is done now. Perhaps she

completely understands how sex works, what can and cannot get her pregnant, and what prevention she can use. Perhaps

she even is pyschologically prepared for the possibility of children. I personally still don't think that she

should, but under these circumstances I am willing to concede that she is capable of making that decision herself,

and best of luck to her. Kris, with his lack of knowledge of how pregnancy can occur, clearly does not fall into

this type.

Pancho, I'm not saying that schools should teach the "you're too young for sex!" method. I know

quite well that this would be useless. However, sex ed should be taught in schools with great emphasis on the

consequences, while still friendly, communicative, and helpful. The above is how I would debate an issue and present

my views to adults, but not how I would teach my children. It's ridiculously obvious that there are better ways to

educate and raise children that will think before they leap.

~Silver
:goodpost:

I'm only going

to argue your first point again with the caveat that maturity is a subjective measurement, meaning my definition is

different than yours and therefore we'll naturally see each other as 'wrong'. I see physical maturity as

capability. In other words, if you can get an erection, bring yourself to orgasm, and ejaculate with healthy semen

(you cannot get a girl pregnant for the first few months of generating semen because it is still developing, which

is why I use the term healthy), you are sexually mature. You are physically mature to have sex. After all, that's

why your body has hormones in the first place...to get you to have sex. To sound like those sex ed tapes, "This

happens around 9-11 for girls and 10-12 for boys (note: some say 10-12 and 11-13---as early as 8 and as late as

14---depending on what you see)."

The thing is that society and biology don't agree anymore. That used to be

when you were supposed to have sex back in the day, but it's a whole new world when you have so much to lose now if

you end up reproducing. In that respect, the state of society now would go to your argument as teenagers have

neither the physical or mental capacity for parenthood in this society (and therefore the thing that causes it,

sex).

Again, you are stating physical maturity in a different manner, and therefore I guess we're both right as

long as we see it from our viewpoint. I'd say mental maturity is the same thing because in today's world you have

more to lose from reproduction and therefore must understand the consequences.


I agree with the rest of your

post and would like to note my appreciation of your giving me the benefit of the doubt and showing where our

arguments are really agreements.

[belgareth]

By your definition then a girl

is not sexually mature as she is not yet capable of bearing a healthy child, which is the purpose of having sex.

[Pancho1188]

By your

definition then a girl is not sexually mature as she is not yet capable of bearing a healthy child, which is the

purpose of having sex.
There are 13-year olds that are perfectly capable of bearing children. It happens

in many cultures, remember...the US isn't the only place on earth. :) Yes, the odds get better with age and then

eventually get worse with age, but I said capability/capacity. I'd have to give biology props by saying that

sexual feelings have to be at least a decent signal of reproductive preparedness.

This brings up an interesting

point, though, because some girls have sex before they really have the desire to, which is what Silver and others

brought up. This is when peer pressure, etc. catches up with them. Again, it differs on a case-by-case basis, to

which Silver and I are both willing to concede. I couldn't tell you that all 13-year olds are physically

mature...I don't believe that for a second. I just said that it's possible and it happens.

[Gegogi]

My Korean grandmother and

grandfather had an arranged marriage. Believe it or not, grandpa was 11 and grandma 10 when the knot was tied! This

was in the 1920s, so not so long ago historically. You must realize not many people lived past 40 or 50 in those

days, so you had to get started early.

In recent years I've known two women that married at 14, so what the

hay. One is now in her late 20s and a student where I teach. It worked out for her.

[Pherozen]

Hmm, I lost my virginity when I was

13, and I'm fine now. Actually think it made me mature quicker and I'm not as rediculously sex hungry as the rest

of my peers are. When I was 14 I had sex with a 13 year old girl. And you know what she is perfectly healthy and

is very mentally stable. Much more than what I can say about a lot of girls I know that lost their virginity at 18

or 19. Sure everybody can get pregnant, but education is clearly key, not judging. I've had condoms break, I've

had to get morning after pills. There are somethings that you can't stop. I've been getting tested every 3-6

months since I was 15. Don't perform cunnilingus unless I receive STD test results from the girl, which believe it

or not most girls do. Always use a condom, luckily the breaks were from monogomous relationships. Sh*t happens, I

got to get the awkwardness out of sex at an earlier age and I wouldn't have it any other way. Although it may

sound like I'm all for this, um Kris I think that 13 years old for a 16 year old is rediculous. Remember what you

were like at 13? At least go for a freshman in highschool. I mean 13 is what 8th grade? I know it's just one

year, but a LOT changes during the transition to middle to high school.

[Newbie gal]

Just go to the movies, play

video games, play tennis, whatever. There are lots of things you can do with a 13 year old and be happy. Why does

it have to be sex?