US Terrorism

[bjf]

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/9316830p-10241546c.html

[luckyhorse]

wow! powerful stuff and very

sad! it almost sounds like a vietnam all over again! why are the attacks against civilians necessary with all the

satellite networks that can beam down and send visual images surely there must be a better way!!!! although i'am

canadian and not american i believe in fighting terrorism tooth and nail but who are the terrorists civilians????

not! this needs to be handled with a different approach:drunk: :nono:

[DrSmellThis]

That is more sadness than I am

capable of feeling in a lifetime. God have mercy on us all, here and there; and give us the courage and vision to

open our hearts and minds.

I know there are differences of opinion among military people, but I have talked to

a few soldiers, and have friends with relatives there. I guess we all do. But they all said something along the

lines of feeling disgusted about our government and the war. The other night at a gig a soldier back from Iraq for a

short time, but on his way back, told me never to believe anything the press tells us about what is happening there.

He hinted about things like civilian casualties, low morale, widespread disgust with our political leaders, and

equipment/supply problems, but just stressed that I shouldn't believe the press reports and said he couldn't talk

any more. He was a really nice guy. At least he enjoyed the music.

Someday soon I might share a letter another

soldier there sent my friend, if can get permission from the soldier.

[bjf]

This country spreads lies, and they

use all sorts of language as propaganda. Good vs. Evil? What the fuck? No, this is the United States vs. our

Enemy. An innocent American life > innocent non American life.

Bottom line is, the

irresponsible killing of innocent people is just as wrong when it is committed by a government

sancationed effort as opposed to a terrorist one.

9/11 touched me deeply, I was more pissed off than anyone.

I trusted our government when they claimed what they did about Iraq. I thought the hippies sleeping in tents to

protest the war needed to get a job. I thought the thousands of people marching down my street during the war

protests were a nuisance.

I'm no tree hugger, but the whole Iraq situation is beyond contempt. Now we

have Bush in the white house for ANOTHER 4 fucken years because the the public relations effort has gone well enough

to hide what is going on.

The situation in Iraq will be bad, for a long long time. It is funny, we might

have killed more civilians than have died in 9/11, attacked a country for reasons (WMDs) that turned out to be wrong

and haven't gotten Osama; yet the people still believe in Bush.

At his presidential news conference

yesterday, he was claiming he had "the will of the people" on his side and "political capital" that he is now going

to spend. Nearly half the people in this country didn't vote for his ass, but he's not interested in representing

that half. A reporter followed with a question regarding that circumstance, his answer showed he didn't understand

it.

[DAdams91982]

And you believe being Ex

Military he can really say any of this???

And as for the reason we invaded and all that shit... agendas

change... how would you feel to live in fear day in an day out that the ruller of your country, would have you hung

so he could go rape your wife??? or his sons would feed you to lions if you didnt play well in a soccer game...

everyone here is bashing what we are doing over here... but all you play off of is the media... the media isnt going

to show Iraqis shaking your hand, or giving hugs saying thank you for what you are doing... yes things are bad over

here... but everyday they are getting better... and they are already better off than before the invasion... they can

actually own refridgerators for cold beverages and food... they can actually own Air Conditioners, beating the heat

that comes through here.

Unfortunately civialians die... 9/11 didnt just try to attack the military, and some

civialians died as a result... no we are actually actively persuing a certian group of people... the people that

frighten Iraqis more than any military person here... Insurgernts wont hesitate to blow a car near a group of kids

just so they can round up mulitple people close that area to do it again, and get the bigger masses. These are

things you dont see us fixing... 90% of the shit we blow up.. we fix it back up... renovate it, and hand it back to

the people... You never see this shit on CNN.

Adams

PS... You cannot blame everything on Bush (Though I

think he is a Great President/Leader)... The President cannot do anything without Congress behind him... and these

are the people that the majority voted in... some for MULTIPLE terms... so they must be doing something right.

[Bruce]

I'm going to assume Adams is really

over there and go with what he is saying. I voted for Kerry, and maybe I wish we hadn't gone to Iraq for various

reasons, but I certainly don't think that we are a worse alternative to the insurgents and anarchy over there.

Civilian deaths are very unfortunate, but it is a hell of a lot easier for us to make moral decisions in our safe

living rooms over here than it is for you guys wondering if the approaching van is packed with explosives over

there. Bottom line is
Our guys are over there getting shot at
The insurgents are nasty folks that mean no

good to anyone.
Nobody "likes" the insurgents. They just fear them.
The truth be known, the "silent

majority" over there must certainly perfer that the insurgents get wiped out and a stable democratic system gets set

up rather than total tribal wars, stone age anarchy for God knows how long

Actually, I wish Sadam were back

in power. Let him worry about the terrorists. But that is no longer an option and we can't just "go home" now,

because that is what we did in Afganistan way back and look what happened there. So, let's just do it, and give

Adams here some support. Hopefully, there is a good turning point coming up. I guess there must be some sort of

learning curve in play.

Bruce

[DCW]

Can someone explain to me why we

glorify war so much in this country? I'm sure you have seen the History channel, Mail Call, Wepons of War, Walter

Cronkite Presents, Time Life videos..etc etc..

Bush's relection was no surprise to me.


DCW

[bjf]

I'm not bashing the soldiers at all,

you have my full support. Which is why I feel the way they do. You can't ask kids to give away there lives without

being sure of what you are doing.

We messed up big on the WMD's. Colin Powell was against the whole thing,

and had real problems with Chaney and Rumsfield, but in the end, he had to support the adminstration, and testified

before the UN.

I don't blame anyone for worrying about insurgents, the soldiers on the ground are doing what

they have to do. But the administration underestimated what the people on the ground would be up against, and as a

result, they're put in bad positions.

A couple of top military people testified before congress what the

reconstruction effort would take (before the war, the number of troops, and they both turned out to be on the $).

One, the did a PR campaign to discredit his claims, another got fired (but rumsfeld). This was a documentary about

the Bush admin on Frontline, and I recommend everyone see it, if they can.

The administration completely

messed up. No, now we can't just leave, but that is a different story. Americans should be able to see the dirty

side of war so we can make informed decisions. Adams you say "the media isnt going to show Iraqis shaking your

hand, or giving hugs saying thank you for what you are doing." I have seen this covered in the media. I think

people realize that the insurgents are still in the minority, and not always even Iraqi.

[Holmes]

Can someone explain to

me why we glorify war so much in this country?

Testosterone, baby.

[Pancho1188]

Think sports, the olympics,

etc. Competition, fighting, etc. is interesting to people.

Countries such as the US are the winners of many

wars. Winners love the thing they win at.

War has been the symbol of freedom in this country. The country was

founded on a war. War spurs patriotism. War sparks the human spirit. War gives people a reason to live just like

religion, family, etc.

As for the History channel, you learn from war. You learn about history of the world

through war as it's one of the most important aspects of human civilization. "War and Peace"...instead of "Peace

and Boredom"...


Pick one of the above reasons... :(



That all said, I'm not all about war. I hope

there never comes a time where war is necessary (WWII) and I have to pick up a gun and kill someone as I have no

desire to do so. I will, however, serve to protect those I care about if it became necessary. The problem with the

most recent war is that it wasn't necessary. It wasn't too bad because we rid the world of a major toolbag, but a

country should solve its own problems like so many before Iraq have done. I forgot when the US became the perfect

country and babysitter to all other countries. I miss the pre-WWII US when we minded our own business. You don't

see anyone mad at Canada...

(That said, now that we went and put our nose into other people's business, it's

only fair to help them attempt to regain stability in their country. I hope the people who are making that happen

take care of themselves. They're doing the right thing in helping others...no matter what caused it in the first

place.)

[DAdams91982]

BJF... you are completely

right... most of the insurgents are Iranian or Jordanian... its these people that do not want Iraq to have a stable

democracy or government for that matter... Iraq has discraced them in the past (BEcause of Saddam), and these people

want all the iraqi people, and anyone who wants to help them to pay.

As for the world solving their own

problems... the thing is over here... It wouldnt have happened... The people over here were either to scared, or

didnt know what the hell to do period... it would have went on pretty much forever, for these people knew no other

means... That said, we are a world superpower... we are a means to an end... we have the power to help... So why

not??? Would you just stand idly by, and watch alot of men taking a female against her will, to be raped, and left

for dead??? I sure in the hell wouldn't.

Eh.. I dont know where I am going with this, or what points I am

trying to fight... Im just trying to say that there are soilders over here fighting something they truely believe

in... and maybe think about that when you say that everything that we are doing over here is wrong... saying that

is saying that our men and women that fought and died over here... died in vain.

Adams

[bjf]

DAdams,

When I heard about

some of the atrocities Saddam had done, when Bush was trying to justify the way before he attacked, I figured we had

good reason to go in there regardless of whether he had WMDs or not, and that basically we were irresponsible for

not intervening sooner. Hell, they torchered their national team athletes for heaven's sake.

Of course, I

nor most people expected some of the problems in Iraq, especially because Afgahnastan went so smooth.

I

sure as hell hope nobody died in vain, a lot of lives were saved that would have been lost if the Saddam regime

still was in power. I hope our goverment can start going about things better, though. Because I do fear people are

losing their lives for nothing.

[DAdams91982]

DAdams,

When I heard about some of the atrocities Saddam had done, when Bush was trying to

justify the way before he attacked, I figured we had good reason to go in there regardless of whether he had WMDs or

not, and that basically we were irresponsible for not intervening sooner. Hell, they torchered their national team

athletes for heaven's sake.

Of course, I nor most people expected some of the problems in Iraq, especially

because Afgahnastan went so smooth.

I sure as hell hope nobody died in vain, a lot of lives were saved that

would have been lost if the Saddam regime still was in power. I hope our goverment can start going about things

better, though. Because I do fear people are losing their lives for nothing.

Im very glad we can

agree on this at least!!!

Ive always looked at everything that goes on day to day... as this... things can

ONLY get better.

And nobody please think I was telling you that you were wrong... you have to think my way...

I was trying to say that soldiers read this day to day... that are very heartfelt about what we are

accomplishing.

Adams

[Mtnjim]

With all due respect!

"And

you believe being Ex Military he can really say any of this???"

BUT, if you are refering to G. W. Bush,

SORRY, but he was a "Week end wannabe", "legal draft dodger"; not "ex military". He spent his weekends flying around

U.S. airspace and sucking down beers at the "O Club", not flying over Hanoi getting shot at. This is from a "real"

ex-military from the same time period!!

[DAdams91982]

With all due

respect!

"And you believe being Ex Military he can really say any of this???"

BUT, if you are refering

to G. W. Bush, SORRY, but he was a "Week end wannabe", "legal draft dodger"; not "ex military". He spent his

weekends flying around U.S. airspace and sucking down beers at the "O Club", not flying over Hanoi getting shot at.

This is from a "real" ex-military from the same time period!!

No actually I was refering to the

article.

You can say what you like (Hell that is what i am protecting)... but my view is that GW Bush is a

GREAT commander in chief. I am not going to believe one side or the other... cause I F*CKING hate buying into

rumors of eitherside... so I only live through what I expierience day to day.

Adams

[DrSmellThis]

Dadams, you have my support

and gratitude for what you are doing! God bless you. Thanks for filling in the picture here for us. You are

obviously doing your best to stabilize Iraq.

These days it's crucial to keep in mind the difference between

supporting the war (or leadership) and supporting the warriors. It is our moral responsibility to try to hold this

complexity in our hearts and minds.

I don't know anyone personally who blames regular soldiers for anything

(notwithstanding Rudy G.). Our country has been through this before with Viet Nam, and can therefore wrap their

minds around the complexity of it (most of us). But one compelling thing about that letter was the guy's

understanding that everything is approved all the way up the chain. I have no reason whatsoever to doubt him, just

as I don't doubt Dadams' experiences. He seems sincere to me. Following multiple orders to kill who one finds out

later were innocents is traumatic, to say the least -- to look them in the eyes. He is now ex-military because he

was following his conscience, as far as we know. The fact that there must be civilian casualties in a war does not

mean that more cannot be done by leadership and the intelligence community to minimize it. I believe "hugs and

handshakes" have been covered in the media, but not as much as it should. But the ugly underside of it has hardly

been covered at all in the mainstream press, except as "abstract claims by the other side," the implication being

that we should disbelieve it. All the coverage is lacking. We need truth here. That is how America functions, and

how democracy corrects itself to right wrongs it is perpetrating. Truth sets the checks and balances in motion, and

people from other places can witness this process; and it gives them great faith in America. Sadly, truth has been

in short supply -- by design of course -- and I think the consequences of that are devastating for everyone.

[Holmes]

Dadams, you

have my support and gratitude for what you are doing! God bless you.

Hear hear!

[Pancho1188]

I think we just threw the

checks and balances out the window when we elected a Republican Congress and President who will be appointing

Supreme Court judges in the near future and has the majority of the popular vote despite whatever resistance has

risen.

Checks and balances mean one branch is supposed to keep the others in line, but it seems to me that

Groupthink has taken over and there is only one way to look at things now in the government. However, I don't

blame W or anyone else in the government for this mess. I blame the country now. After all, we had a chance to

restore balance and only caused a one-sided fear fest. "United" is a word you won't hear for quite a while unless

it's before the word "States".

[DCW]

Think sports, the

olympics, etc. Competition, fighting, etc. is interesting to people.

Countries such as the US are the

winners of many wars. Winners love the thing they win at.

War has been the symbol of freedom in this

country. The country was founded on a war. War spurs patriotism. War sparks the human spirit. War gives people a

reason to live just like religion, family, etc.

As for the History channel, you learn from war. You learn

about history of the world through war as it's one of the most important aspects of human civilization. "War and

Peace"...instead of "Peace and Boredom"...


Pick one of the above reasons... :(



That

all said, I'm not all about war. I hope there never comes a time where war is necessary (WWII) and I have to pick

up a gun and kill someone as I have no desire to do so. I will, however, serve to protect those I care about if it

became necessary. The problem with the most recent war is that it wasn't necessary. It wasn't too bad because we

rid the world of a major toolbag, but a country should solve its own problems like so many before Iraq have done. I

forgot when the US became the perfect country and babysitter to all other countries. I miss the pre-WWII US when we

minded our own business. You don't see anyone mad at Canada...

(That said, now that we went and put our

nose into other people's business, it's only fair to help them attempt to regain stability in their country. I

hope the people who are making that happen take care of themselves. They're doing the right thing in helping

others...no matter what caused it in the first place.)

Define many, Korean? Vietnam?

The truth

is with the exception of 911 and because of geography this country has never had enemy tanks roll down our main

streets, if that was the case our gung ho attitute towards war would be different.

We are fighting a real war

against each other with the number of gun realted homicides that occur on our streets, and in our homes every single

day.


DCW

[bjf]

I think we just

threw the checks and balances out the window when we elected a Republican Congress and President who will be

appointing Supreme Court judges in the near future and has the majority of the popular vote despite whatever

resistance has risen.

Checks and balances mean one branch is supposed to keep the others in line, but it

seems to me that Groupthink has taken over and there is only one way to look at things now in the government.

However, I don't blame W or anyone else in the government for this mess. I blame the country now. After all, we

had a chance to restore balance and only caused a one-sided fear fest. "United" is a word you won't hear for quite

a while unless it's before the word "States".

Pancho, I was originally mad at Americans (because

Bush was re-elected), but realized what DST so eloquently put: there is a shortage of truth.

To form opinions

on everything that is going on, people have to know what is going on.

Once you have the full truth, then you

can make informed decisions. If you are for the war to save human lives, than acknowledge that you will accept the

human cost of the loss of innocent iraqi lives and our own kids who haven't yet even lived their lives yet. I

think the government is completely hiding what the human cost is in this operation, and I don't agree with that at

all. People really can't make informed decisions without the full truth.

At a certain point, I wondered if

the media failed (for failing to get out the truth), but I don't know. Maybe they don't want to seem like they

are demonizing America. I really don't know.

[DrSmellThis]

The whole truth would doubtless be upsetting for us here, would decrease troop morale, and would increase unrest

abroad. Confusion would abound -- for a while. But the truth comes out eventually anyway, in one form or another. To

quote Bush, "you can run but you can't hide."

But that is what we got ourselves into when we decided to have a

free and democratic country way back when. We have to live up to the responsibility of that, as hard as it is.



Fortunately, it would not "demonize" America at all in the long term, since with a transparent process based on

truth people everywhere could and would understand what is going on in America and admire the larger process of

checks, balances and change (as opposed to hating us because of whatever bad things we did as a country). People

could get that we are working through our faults, and can compare it to the governments they have. They would not

have to identify us with our leadership. Tragically, with the election, I'm afraid too many will now unreservedly

identify us with Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney. Convincing the world we've been lied to as citizens and lack a voice

(thanks Diebold) will be difficult, and might not be enough to help us.

As long as we're responding to the

truth, everyone has a voice, and our checks and balances are in play, we can go naked in front of the world without

fear or shame! This is called national integrity, and is a crucial quality sorely missing from current

leadership, in so many ways. They just don't get it, and don't respect democracy. People don't have equal voices,

and they don't have truth. We don't have to hide from the world or ourselves, but we do. It's small minded

foolishness based in fear, selfishness and self-loathing.

[Pancho1188]

Define many,

Korean? Vietnam?

The truth is with the exception of 911 and because of geography this country has never had

enemy tanks roll down our main streets, if that was the case our gung ho attitute towards war would be different.



We are fighting a real war against each other with the number of gun realted homicides that occur on our streets,

and in our homes every single day.


DCWWWII, Civil War (you may say we were the winners and the

losers, but technically the United States won vs. the Confederacy), Iraq, Afghanistan, Spanish-American War,

American Revolution, French and Indian War (wasn't the US at the time, but were the ancestors of the founding

fathers), Cold War, WWI, etc...

I didn't include Vietnam, Korea, War of 1812, Seven Years' War, Cuban missle

crisis, Iran conflict, etc. for various reasons (wasn't sure if you could consider them "wins" or even "wars"

(hell, Vietnam was a 'conflict') or couldn't remember what they entailed :trout: ...)

That's about a dozen

wars...is that enough or should I reacquaint myself with our nation's history?

IIRC, the capital was burned to

the ground once by the British. Whoops.



You're right about the other stuff (don't forget Pearl Harbor!

Not a main street, but an attack nonetheless)

[a.k.a.]

Someday soon

I might share a letter another soldier there sent my friend, if can get permission from the

soldier.

I can imagine. Most of my friends are ex military, but I don't believe any have experienced

anything like Iraq.

Here's a link to some heart wrenching letters from Iraq, posted on a great site by Iraq

veterans:


[url]http://optruth.org/main.cfm?actionId=globalShowStaticContent&screenKey=hearHome&lnav=1[/ur

l]

[DrSmellThis]

Thanks, AKA. That's a site I

was trying to remember earlier but couldn't. It's important that people hear from our men and women over there.

We're lucky to have DAdams.

So Dadams, if you don't mind me asking and have time, where are you stationed?

What is your rank? What is the main responsibility of your unit? How stable is it where you are?

[PHP 87]

www.zombietime.com

[DAdams91982]

Thanks,

AKA. That's a site I was trying to remember earlier but couldn't. It's important that people hear from our men

and women over there. We're lucky to have DAdams.

So Dadams, if you don't mind me asking and have time, where

are you stationed? What is your rank? What is the main responsibility of your unit? How stable is it where you

are?
I cant say exactly where I am stationed... just I can say Iraq... My rank is SrA... and I work

directly to support and train Iraqs security... (Military... and Police). I cant really say where I am is stable...

because I am always traveling around iraq... so I have seen the good, and the bad.

When I see cities that we

have rebuilt, and are 10 times better living conditions for the people that reside there... You just know things

are better off... (That and the iraqis tell you strait up).

People hating war is inevitable... no matter how

strong the public opinion in the beginning... it always fades... and people forget (9/11 is really what spawned

this... and Im sorry... but I am still MAJORLY pissed about that)... it happened in the past... and it happened

again.

Like I said... Im sure there are other troops on here... that come here to get a little encouragement

from fellow people on the board... some who were in the war or are in the war.... who have a full belief that this

is right... just think about that when you plan to disgrace what is being done over here.

Adams

PS... YOu

would sleep better at night with Kerry representing America??? Who called our ally Allawi a liar strait up?

[DrSmellThis]

Dadams, you are doing a great

and crucial thing by training Iraqis to protect themselves and their own interests. Of that there can be no doubt,

and both mainstream Democrats and Republicans agree on that. My heartfelt thanks go out to you and yours.

I used

to live and work in the WTC for a short time. I was also unbelievably enraged about 9/11; and believed strongly that

the war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda made sense. I supported Bush's initial efforts. Then I found out we went

to war in Iraq on the premise of fabricated WMD and a fabricated Al Qaeda connection; and found out more about the

web of lies and alterior motives perpetrated by our administration. I disagree that invading Iraq was in any way

justified by the tragedy of 9/11. But I have always said that, since we are already there, we need to secure

Iraq before we leave; and also, persevere to a point where we restore what we have torn down, pay for it to be

restored, or some combination. In short, we need to leave as soon as, or to the extent that, the peace and

prosperity would be greater with us gone; or as soon as the growth of peace and prosperity could continue better

without us. There should be debate about how and when this point would be reached. In my way of thinking, we're not

fighting for Bush at all -- but for America, Iraq, Middle East stability, and the world. Bush just happens to be

making the decisions on the conduct, strategy and tactics of the war, as that is his job. Two wrongs don't make a

right, so leaving Iraq should not be done without meticulous care; in abandonment; or to "cut and run" (as Bush

says). Moreover, I support the troops in an unconditional sense, as I said in the other post above. So any

soldier that reads my words knows I believe they have a very good reason to continue their good work, at present; as

far as I can tell from not being there. What is more, you all have my love, appreciation and prayers, no matter

what.

But if troops are coming here for unqualified support of the Iraq war only, they might want to

reconsider where they are surfing. I can only encourage in an honest way. Condoning a decision to go to war that was

based on lies, deception and stupidity; to make a certain portion of people feel better temporarily, is not in my

ethical world; with all due respect.

I would feel immeasurably better with Kerry representing America,

supporting the troops by telling them the truth; fighting a smarter war, and bringing them home ASAP with greater

international support. A lot of top generals agreed. But that's neither here nor there. Bush is all we've got now,

but I hope the bitter campaign has moved him to rethink some of his ways of doing things.

The fact of someone

being our "ally" does not give them a blank check to misrepresent that everything is going just great in Iraq,

though I am glad you see progress. General Sanchez himself, and many other military people at the top and bottom

have seen it differently. As far as I heard, Kerry said he felt Bush and Allawi were spinning it as too positive,

but did not call Allawi "a liar point blank." If I tell my friend he is misrepresenting something, that does not

mean he or she is no longer my friend. I do not need to accept full responsibility for my friend's misspeaking. If

I do that the relationship becomes unhealthy, and I have lost my sense of appropriate boundaries. It works the same

way between nations.

I'm open to all information about progress in winning the peace, but have not been sold on

Bush and Rumsfeld's master plan. I do have faith in our soldiers in general doing their best in the field with

bravery and valor, however.

Although I am humbled by the fact that I'm not there; my information is that a

great many soldiers also feel betrayed, disillusioned, alienated, and alone. Soldiers and their families

supported Kerry significantly more than the general population, in fact. Those soldiers need our support too,

and many of them feel alone in their feelings, and feel the need to strengthen their reason for being there and

fighting. It's not easy to look at this rationale with mixed feelings, in a complex, qualified (yet clear, I

believe) way; but you surely can't build a lasting motivational foundation on total BS either. Maybe your rationale

for being there wouldn't work for someone else, and maybe that other person deserves and needs support too. Like

many soldiers, I'm not a conservative Republican, but I understand fully if you'd prefer to listen to others who

do share your particular reasons. The only thing that matters is that you are there doing a good thing, after

all. Just come back home safe. I'd be delighted to know you were having a beer in the states somewhere thinking

about how "full of it" I am, or forgetting that this individual exists entirely, for that matter. Disagreement is

essential to America's greatness. Americans are a motley crew with minds of their own, whether here or there.



So in addition to the excellent website AKA linked, here are the other important sites I know of that give a voice

to soldiers who feel less positive about our decision to go to war, the way things are going, and their experiences

there. I get the impression that having these outlets is healthy and theraputic -- even a godsend -- for them.



Here is the touching Military Families Speak Out site:

www.mfso.org (http://www.mfso.org/)

And

here is the excellent Iraq Veterans Against the War site:

www.ivaw.net (http://www.ivaw.net/)



There is also a good article in Mother Jones (Nov./Dec 2004) on Iraq soldiers' views of the war. The article

contains a version of the story bjf posted.

[frenchie]

here's Frenchie

again !
I was really surprised by the elections results, as eveybody here said Kerry was ahead. But we all know

statistics don't mean very much...
I was hoping that America would wake up - that Democracy would wake

up...
It didn't.
And now we'll have war again, and this makes me very sad...
Sorry, I forget my

english... emotion, I guess

Frenchie

[DrSmellThis]

A big welcome back,

Frenchie!!

[frenchie]

thanks, Dr SmellThis !

[belgareth]

Hi Frenchie, Good to see you

again.

[Pancho1188]

here's

Frenchie again !
I was really surprised by the elections results, as eveybody here said Kerry was ahead. But we all

know statistics don't mean very much...
I was hoping that America would wake up - that Democracy would wake

up...
It didn't.
And now we'll have war again, and this makes me very sad...
Sorry, I forget my english...

emotion, I guess

Frenchie
Fear woke up...and it's here to stay.

Nice to see (read, whatever ;))

you again, Frenchie... :)

[Mtnjim]

here's Frenchie

again !
...

Hey girl, welcome back---Missed ya'!!!