18-26 Year Olds start planning to go away!!

[Mtnjim]

Read this:
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/24.html
and start

worrying!! :hammer: :run: :POKE:

[ManBeast]

I love my country, but I refuse

to involuntarily serve. ESPECIALLY if it is for a cause I don't support (and no, I wasn't even a glimmer in

someone's eye during the `70s).

MB

[Mtnjim]

... (and no, I

wasn't even a glimmer in someone's eye during the `70s).

MB


Was there, did that!!

[culturalblonde]

I've had two male friends

who are in the military and were leaving thinking they were going to Okinawa, Japan... they were actually sent to

Iraq. One who is in the reserves, came home on leave for a month, but was sent back. He told me that the equipment

they are using is so outdated. Also, that a lot of deaths have been by friendly fire or caused by outdated

weapons/equipment.

I would write more, but my heart is breaking as I write this...

I get so sad when I

hear about young people having to sacrifice their lifes in such away.

[Pancho1188]

I don't think I would mind

the few months of training, but I wouldn't want them shipping me off somewhere...

[Mtnjim]

I don't think I

would mind the few months of training, but I wouldn't want them shipping me off

somewhere...


Good luck with that...if you are drafted, you are cannon fodder--disposable!

:hammer:

Pretty soon the National Guard will again (as in the Veit Nam era) become the way for rich white

boys to "legally" evade the draft ( a la G. W. Bush). :frustrate

[einstein]

I don't think it will happen.

Not making exceptions for college students was a way to kill the draft.

[Pancho1188]

Mtnjim,

Thanks for the

joke, buddy! :)


*Walks up to friend*
*Grabs arm as if sizing him up for strength*
*Starts feeling own

muscles as if sizing up own strength*
-What are you doing?
--Well, just making sure we're ready for the draft...I

know I'm going to have to work out twice as hard now!

:rofl:

[CollegeStudent]

Id be going to Mexico and

hitting up some latino booty :)

[Holmes]

"I don't wanna get drafted/I

don't wanna go/I don't wanna get drafted/No no no!" - Frank Zappa

[Friendly1]

This rumor was ancient history

weeks ago. The Pentagon has repeatedly insisted it wants nothing to do with a reinstated draft. Draftees are not

as well-motivated to peform as volunteers. And, right now, the only part of our defense system which is not meeting

recruitment goals is the National Guard. Active duty enlistments are up.

The Selective Service is independent

of the Pentagon and the Department of Defense. See this story for more details:



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/197438_pot3

0.html (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/197438_pot30.html)

It appears these interminable rumors keep coming back because the SS people are trying to update

their system.

Only an act of Congress can reinstate the draft. The President doesn't have the authority to

order it. Long before the draft happens (if it ever happens again), there will be plenty of public debate and

disclosure.

But our military is moving away from strategies which require massive numbers of conscripts. The

emphasis has been on developing weapons systems which are more effectively applied by highly skilled, specially

trained, small, mobile forces. You can't just draft a few hundred thousand young people, throw guns into their

hands, and send them into the field to conduct today's kind of military operations.

[PHP 87]

Yep. It takes an act of Congress to

re-initiate the draft.

Amazing how some people are so easily suckered by an internet rumor.

[Pancho1188]

Congress is Republican.

[DAdams91982]

Congress

is Republican.
Exactly... and "They" dont want any Anti-War pansies in the military fighting this war.



I hope that no one here took this rumor seriously... it is ridiculous to think for one minute that any person

would have believe this monstrosity.


He told me that the equipment they are using is so

outdated. Also, that a lot of deaths have been by friendly fire or caused by outdated weapons/equipment.


As for this... I dont know who or where this person works... but I am in this war right now... and we work on

STATE of the art equipment... with top of the line armor, and weapons... there is nothing outdated over here

whatsoever.

Adams

[DAdams91982]

But as for Friendly fire...

I wouldnt doubt it.. there are a bunch of reservists over here that dont know what the hell they are doing with a

weapon... weapons take discipline... discipline civilians just doesnt carry.

Adams

[HK45Mark23]

Thank you Adams,:thumbsup:





I am proud of you. I want you to know how I feel about those who

defend our country and put their lives on the line fighting for democracy and freedom all around the world. To me,

you are a Super Hero. My family and I are forever indebted to you for your (and all solders now and through history

all the way back to the Revolutionary War) involvement in building, strengthening, and securing the America we know

today. Thanks.:wave:





HK45Mark23

[DAdams91982]

Thank you Adams,:thumbsup:





I am proud of you. I want you to know how I feel about those who defend our country and

put their lives on the line fighting for democracy and freedom all around the world. To me, you are a Super Hero. My

family and I are forever indebted to you for your (and all solders now and through history all the way back to the

Revolutionary War) involvement in building, strengthening, and securing the America we know today. Thanks.:wave:





HK45Mark23
WOW...

Thanks... Just doing my part to protect the people I love, and the Way of life that I hold so dearly. Especially

after seeing how others in this world live.

Adams

[metroman]

Please guys dont get so easily

suckered into the governments pronouncements...they're doing whatever is politically expedient for the moment

public relations wise...yeah sure they didn't want any talk of the draft being reinstituted prior to the

elections...there are many instances in history where the politicians have assured us that a draft is

unneccessary...FDR proclaimed the neutrality of the US during WWII prior to Pearl Harbor...LBJ made comments that a

draft would be unneccessary during the beginning phases of Vietnam...Mtn Jim has got it right...young men & women

are regarded as canon fodder by the politicians especially the ones just recently reelected. They have plans to

continue the imperialist ambitions of the neocons...next will be Iran then N Korea...even with a high tech military

personnel can only be stretched so thin.

"The pioneers of a warless world are the young


men & women who refuse military service"
-Albert Einstein

[Mtnjim]

...next will be

Iran then N Korea...even with a high tech military personnel can only be stretched so thin.



"The pioneers of a warless world are the young
men & women who refuse military service"


-Albert Einstein

THE POINT EXACTLY!!!

Voluntary enlistments won't be

able to keep up with the demand wnen/if this happens. "W" intends to keep his word to "change the world".

I

was swept up in the last draft that "wasn't necessary", so don't be so sure you won't be this time.

If the

U. S. is going to be the "world police" enforcing our vision of the way to live, we're going to need "cannon

fodder" to make it happen.
:frustrate :frustrate :frustrate

[DAdams91982]

And you mean to tell me

nothing was learned from the last draft??? This rumor was started by democrates durning the early stages of the

campaign to sway the election in kerrys favor.

Believe what you want... but I bet my life on it that it DOES NOT

HAPPEN!!!

Adams

[handtohandking]

Although Kerry himself

was more in favor of a draft than Bush, that still doesn't mean that this administration won't go through with it.

And if it happens, I will be swept up in it, but I won't resist. It's not like imprisonment scares me, nor am I

some gung-ho American, but I won't dodge it and watch everyone else fight. They need me out there on the front

lines :twisted: ...

[Pancho1188]

yeah sure they

didn't want any talk of the draft being reinstituted prior to the elections...there are many instances in history

where the politicians have assured us that a draft is unneccessary...FDR proclaimed the neutrality of the US during

WWII prior to Pearl Harbor...LBJ made comments that a draft would be unneccessary during the beginning phases of

Vietnam...
Ironically, the opposite happened during this election. Politicians brought it up to scare

people before the election.

[DAdams91982]

Although Kerry himself was more in favor of a draft than Bush, that still doesn't mean that

this administration won't go through with it. And if it happens, I will be swept up in it, but I won't resist.

It's not like imprisonment scares me, nor am I some gung-ho American, but I won't dodge it and watch everyone else

fight. They need me out there on the front lines :twisted: ...
Then why not join on your own free will???

You sound pretty forward... join us at the front lines!!!

And again... Its not going to happen. (Draft)



Adams

[handtohandking]

Then

why not join on your own free will??? You sound pretty forward... join us at the front lines!!!

And again... Its

not going to happen. (Draft)

Adams
Well, there have been times in my life where I considered the

military as an option, but right now I'm just trying to catch up with all the life I've been missing and

establishing myself. I'm even starting up my own business and plan on turning it into a huge success. BUT...if a

draft is put into place, I can't dodge it and be able to keep all of my liberties, unfortunately, so I refuse to

live a limited life here. And honestly, I'm a big strong guy in good shape with a sharp mind in this skull, so I

can help everyone else over there. I wouldn't do it in the name of this country or the government or any other

agenda; just the fact that my fellow soldiers should remain alive.

[a.k.a.]

Regarding the Selective Service

Administration report detailing the SSA’s readiness to implement a draft in 2005...
These reports come

out every year, and they always detail the SSA’s readiness to implement a draft. Maintaining a state of readiness

is the SSA’s job. So, of course, this is what their annual reports are going to say.

The real question

is, can the military meet it’s current obligations with an all volunteer army? Because, if it can’t, a draft is

coming just as sure as leaves fall when it’s autumn.
The Iraq occupation is dragging out much longer than

anticipated, and the situation is getting worse instead of better. Meanwhile fewer and fewer people are

volunteering. The pentagon is facing a critical shortage of everything from truck drivers to surgeons.
It

is currently relying on stopgap measures, such as extended overseas deployments, heavy reliance on the National

Guard and Reserves, call-ups of Individual Ready Reservists and Retired Reservists, stop-loss orders, significant

reenlistment bonuses, and shifting of troops to complete understaffed units. When these measures have been

exhausted, we’re going to have a draft. No doubt about it.

My sense is that it’s coming soon (within

the next year). And the administration’s probably going to try to sneak its foot in the door with a “skills draft”

of medical professionals that won’t be stationed in battle zones. But once the initial legislation, authorizing a

skills draft, is passed, the president will have authority to add whatever skills the pentagon deems necessary to

the list.

[PHP 87]

Congress is

Republican.

Well, I guess you missed the part about Congress recently voting down the Draft proposal

by a vote of something like 405-2

The same proposal written and introduced by Democrat Charlie

Rangle.

And it was Kerry who wanted to put 40,000 more troops on the ground in Iraq.

Where were they

going to come from?

Also, todays Military is a professional fighting force - drafting and including people

who don't want to be there would be counter-productive.

Again, there will be no draft under President

Bush.

Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't understand the issue or know the facts.

It was

nothing more than a shameless scare tactic designed to get young people to the polls to vote for Kerry.

[DAdams91982]

Well, I guess

you missed the part about Congress recently voting down the Draft proposal by a vote of something like 405-2

The

same proposal written and introduced by Democrat Charlie Rangle.

And it was Kerry who wanted to put 40,000 more

troops on the ground in Iraq.

Where were they going to come from?

Also, todays Military is a professional

fighting force - drafting and including people who don't want to be there would be counter-productive.

Again,

there will be no draft under President Bush.

Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't understand the issue

or know the facts.

It was nothing more than a shameless scare tactic designed to get young people to the polls

to vote for Kerry.
EXACTLY... More and More people are volunteering.. .that is where you are wrong...

there are SO MANY reservists that can be tapped still... Hell US Air Force are kicking people out because it is way

over crowded... and they are going strait to the US Army... Now the Army is never going to meet its "Quota" Never

has... it has a pipe dream for a number... but that doesnt mean a draft will be imposed for the remaining... again

shameless scare tactic.

Adams

[a.k.a.]

More and More

people are volunteering.. .

"The Army is expected to meet its goal of 77,000 new active-duty recruits

for the 2004 fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30. But Army officials are far less certain about next year, when the

service will have to persuade 80,000 young adults to sign up in the midst of a prolonged guerrilla war in Iraq and

an improving economy at home.

Army planners are still debating how many new recruiters to add, but they

intend to send at least 300 more to recruiting offices across the USA to bolster the Army's force of about 6,000

active and reserve recruiters, says Doug Smith, a spokesman at Army Recruiting Command at Fort Knox in

Kentucky.

To lure new prospects, the cash bonuses in some hard-to-fill specialties will rise to a maximum of

$15,000, more than double the previous top bonus of $6,000 for a three-year enlistment. The top bonus for most

recruits will rise to $10,000.

The concern over potential recruiting shortfalls comes as the Pentagon is

having increasing difficulty finding enough troops for ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Long overseas tours

have soured some current troops and have made the military less enticing for some potential recruits. The improving

U.S. economy has lured others to civilian jobs.

There also is a growing shortage in the Army's Delayed Entry

Program, which allows recruits to sign up months ahead of the time they are required to report to boot

camp.

Because of an increased demand for recruits this year, the Army has been rushing delayed-entry soldiers

into basic training ahead of schedule. That has depleted the pool of soldiers who would have reported next year and

added to the burden for recruiters.

Loren Thompson, a military analyst at the Lexington Institute in

Arlington, Va., says the signs point to difficult times ahead for the Army.

"This is not a good situation.

The National Guard is not meeting its recruiting numbers, the active-duty Army is having to take unusual steps just

to meet its numbers," Thompson says. "The practice of putting delayed-entry personnel in right now assures that

after the election the numbers will not be

met."

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_army_080504,00.html



Hell US Air Force are kicking people out because it is way over crowded... and they are going strait to the US

Army...

Last July the pentagon launched an initiative (“Operation Blue to Green”) to

“rebalance the size of the military”. The Air Force is moving toward reducing its forces by 20,000 in FY 2005 and

the Navy is moving towards reductions of 8,000. Sailors and Airmen that agree to transfer into the Army will receive

significant bonuses and are being assured that their status and benefits will continue without interruption.
The

Army HOPES that Operation Blue to Green will bring in 8,000 new recruits. But, even if it does, this is only 10% of

the projected goal.
And actual needs may be higher. The Joint Chiefs of Staff project a need for 100,000 troops

in Iraq for the next 4-5 years. But the current number is 130,000 and even this doesn't appear to be

enought.
Bush and Rumsfeld can say what they want. They might even believe their own rhetoric. But mathematics

trumps ideology everytime.

[DAdams91982]

"The Army is

expected to meet its goal of 77,000 new active-duty recruits for the 2004 fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30. But Army

officials are far less certain about next year, when the service will have to persuade 80,000 young adults to sign

up in the midst of a prolonged guerrilla war in Iraq and an improving economy at home.

Army planners are still

debating how many new recruiters to add, but they intend to send at least 300 more to recruiting offices across the

USA to bolster the Army's force of about 6,000 active and reserve recruiters, says Doug Smith, a spokesman at Army

Recruiting Command at Fort Knox in Kentucky.

To lure new prospects, the cash bonuses in some hard-to-fill

specialties will rise to a maximum of $15,000, more than double the previous top bonus of $6,000 for a three-year

enlistment. The top bonus for most recruits will rise to $10,000.

The concern over potential recruiting

shortfalls comes as the Pentagon is having increasing difficulty finding enough troops for ongoing wars in Iraq and

Afghanistan. Long overseas tours have soured some current troops and have made the military less enticing for some

potential recruits. The improving U.S. economy has lured others to civilian jobs.

There also is a growing

shortage in the Army's Delayed Entry Program, which allows recruits to sign up months ahead of the time they are

required to report to boot camp.

Because of an increased demand for recruits this year, the Army has been

rushing delayed-entry soldiers into basic training ahead of schedule. That has depleted the pool of soldiers who

would have reported next year and added to the burden for recruiters.

Loren Thompson, a military analyst at the

Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va., says the signs point to difficult times ahead for the Army.

"This is not

a good situation. The National Guard is not meeting its recruiting numbers, the active-duty Army is having to take

unusual steps just to meet its numbers," Thompson says. "The practice of putting delayed-entry personnel in right

now assures that after the election the numbers will not be met."



http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13

319,FL_army_080504,00.html (http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_army_080504,00.html)




Last July the pentagon launched an initiative (“Operation Blue to

Green”) to “rebalance the size of the military”. The Air Force is moving toward reducing its forces by 20,000 in FY

2005 and the Navy is moving towards reductions of 8,000. Sailors and Airmen that agree to transfer into the Army

will receive significant bonuses and are being assured that their status and benefits will continue without

interruption.
The Army HOPES that Operation Blue to Green will bring in 8,000 new recruits. But, even if it does,

this is only 10% of the projected goal.
And actual needs may be higher. The Joint Chiefs of Staff project a need

for 100,000 troops in Iraq for the next 4-5 years. But the current number is 130,000 and even this doesn't appear

to be enought.
Bush and Rumsfeld can say what they want. They might even believe their own rhetoric. But

mathematics trumps ideology everytime.
And all of this is only predictions... the time that any branch

picks up 90% of its recruits for the year is may/june time... the DEP program may be depleted right now... but who

wants to join the military just before Christmas??? (Besides me)... these numbers will fill up come that time...

They always do... but like I said... the Army almost ALWAYS fails to meet their quota... and it hasnt hindered us

before. and no matter if they dont meet it... there will still be NO Draft... that is the point here... THERE WILL

BE NO DRAFT.

These situations will only bring on a military that will TRUELY be here for the country...

through thick and thin... only bringing in the people who hold these things true to heart... and are willing to

fight for them... not the people looking to drive a bus on base to pay their way through college.

Adams

[Friendly1]

The media have been agonizing

over the Army's ability to meet its recruiting goals every year since we switched to an all-volunteer army. There

were a few years when they actually didn't meet those commitments. Even so, we didn't go back to a draft.

The

draft sucked the wind out of our country. It is now only a politically expedient stick with which to stir up a

frenzied comparison to Vietnam.

While there is a very real chance that "W" may involve us in a situation we

cannot handle (and Iraq is not such a situation, despite the mistakes that have been made), the people leading our

military are almost all still Vietnam veterans. They don't want to go through that kind of era again.

[Watcher]

basically if bush keeps carrying

on with this christian inspired (stupid crusade in iraq) someone is going to try and assainate him - i personally

dont want to see this happen but he is pissing the rest of the world off.

[Friendly1]

basically if

bush keeps carrying on with this christian inspired (stupid crusade in iraq) someone is going to try and assainate

him
That is just nonsense. What Bush is doing in Iraq is a direct consequence of more than 60 years of

U.S. foreign and economic policy. We basically made Saddam Hussein, and we had to do something about him.

If

Bush had done nothing, his successor (either Republican or Democrat) would probably have been forced to act, and we

would still be dealing with foreign interference.

And once you go into a country like that, you have an

obligation to leave it with a stable, orderly form of government. Otherwise, you just create another Afghanistan.

[a.k.a.]

The 18-29 vote simply failed to

materialize in numbers significant enough to make a difference, given the overall greater turnout.
Bill

O’Rielly made a snide comment about, “Are they actually going to leave their bongs and stand in line to vote?”


But I think the Democrats simply failed to field a candidate that could address the interests of this

demographic.

Black turnout was high, but this constituency was either overshadowed by the Evangelical

vote, stolen (once again), or some combination of the two.

I’m still skeptical about who won the vote,

but, based on the following comparison of exit polls (200 vs 2004) Kerry still made a miserable showing:

Bush

2000 / Bush 2004

African-Americans: 8% / 11%
Whites: 54% / 58%
Hispanic: 41% / 44%
Married: 53% /

56%
Not Married: 38% / 40%
Union Members: 37% / 40%
Gays: 25% / 23%
Gun Owners: 61% /

67%
Protestants: 63% / 59%
Jewish: 19% / 25%
Catholics: 45% / 52%
Republicans: 91% / 93%
Democrats:

10% / 11%
Men: 51% / 55%
Women: 43% / 48%
18-29 year olds: 46% / 45%
30-44 year olds: 49% / 53%
45-59

year olds: 49% / 51%
60+ 47% / 54%

Based on National Exit

Polls.

http://counterpunch.org/wire11042004.html

[DAdams91982]

stolen (once

again)
Pure Bullshit...

And so is the comment of a Christian Inspired Crusade

That is all



adams

[koolking1]

Adams, thanks for serving!

Now, why do you think the Guard was given so much responsibility in this current war?

[DrSmellThis]

Given a constant level of

military activity, I think either side was equally likely to initiate and push through a draft, and it

probably wouldn't happen. But we cannot assume an equal propensity to military aggression between the

parties. That is the key difference. Remember the PNAC documents?