View Full Version : 18-26 Year Olds start planning to go away!!
Mtnjim
11-02-2004, 04:43 PM
Read this:
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/24.html
and start
worrying!! :hammer: :run: :POKE:
ManBeast
11-02-2004, 05:22 PM
I love my country, but I refuse
to involuntarily serve. ESPECIALLY if it is for a cause I don't support (and no, I wasn't even a glimmer in
someone's eye during the `70s).
MB
Mtnjim
11-02-2004, 05:28 PM
... (and no, I
wasn't even a glimmer in someone's eye during the `70s).
MB
Was there, did that!!
culturalblonde
11-02-2004, 05:40 PM
I've had two male friends
who are in the military and were leaving thinking they were going to Okinawa, Japan... they were actually sent to
Iraq. One who is in the reserves, came home on leave for a month, but was sent back. He told me that the equipment
they are using is so outdated. Also, that a lot of deaths have been by friendly fire or caused by outdated
weapons/equipment.
I would write more, but my heart is breaking as I write this...
I get so sad when I
hear about young people having to sacrifice their lifes in such away.
Pancho1188
11-02-2004, 05:40 PM
I don't think I would mind
the few months of training, but I wouldn't want them shipping me off somewhere...
Mtnjim
11-02-2004, 06:45 PM
I don't think I
would mind the few months of training, but I wouldn't want them shipping me off
somewhere...
Good luck with that...if you are drafted, you are cannon fodder--disposable!
:hammer:
Pretty soon the National Guard will again (as in the Veit Nam era) become the way for rich white
boys to "legally" evade the draft ( a la G. W. Bush). :frustrate
einstein
11-03-2004, 01:25 AM
I don't think it will happen.
Not making exceptions for college students was a way to kill the draft.
Pancho1188
11-03-2004, 07:07 AM
Mtnjim,
Thanks for the
joke, buddy! :)
*Walks up to friend*
*Grabs arm as if sizing him up for strength*
*Starts feeling own
muscles as if sizing up own strength*
-What are you doing?
--Well, just making sure we're ready for the draft...I
know I'm going to have to work out twice as hard now!
:rofl:
CollegeStudent
11-03-2004, 06:10 PM
Id be going to Mexico and
hitting up some latino booty :)
Holmes
11-03-2004, 06:33 PM
"I don't wanna get drafted/I
don't wanna go/I don't wanna get drafted/No no no!" - Frank Zappa
Friendly1
11-03-2004, 06:41 PM
This rumor was ancient history
weeks ago. The Pentagon has repeatedly insisted it wants nothing to do with a reinstated draft. Draftees are not
as well-motivated to peform as volunteers. And, right now, the only part of our defense system which is not meeting
recruitment goals is the National Guard. Active duty enlistments are up.
The Selective Service is independent
of the Pentagon and the Department of Defense. See this story for more details:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/197438_pot3
0.html (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/197438_pot30.html)
It appears these interminable rumors keep coming back because the SS people are trying to update
their system.
Only an act of Congress can reinstate the draft. The President doesn't have the authority to
order it. Long before the draft happens (if it ever happens again), there will be plenty of public debate and
disclosure.
But our military is moving away from strategies which require massive numbers of conscripts. The
emphasis has been on developing weapons systems which are more effectively applied by highly skilled, specially
trained, small, mobile forces. You can't just draft a few hundred thousand young people, throw guns into their
hands, and send them into the field to conduct today's kind of military operations.
PHP 87
11-03-2004, 10:24 PM
Yep. It takes an act of Congress to
re-initiate the draft.
Amazing how some people are so easily suckered by an internet rumor.
Pancho1188
11-04-2004, 06:24 AM
Congress is Republican.
DAdams91982
11-04-2004, 07:08 AM
Congress
is Republican.
Exactly... and "They" dont want any Anti-War pansies in the military fighting this war.
I hope that no one here took this rumor seriously... it is ridiculous to think for one minute that any person
would have believe this monstrosity.
He told me that the equipment they are using is so
outdated. Also, that a lot of deaths have been by friendly fire or caused by outdated weapons/equipment.
As for this... I dont know who or where this person works... but I am in this war right now... and we work on
STATE of the art equipment... with top of the line armor, and weapons... there is nothing outdated over here
whatsoever.
Adams
DAdams91982
11-04-2004, 07:09 AM
But as for Friendly fire...
I wouldnt doubt it.. there are a bunch of reservists over here that dont know what the hell they are doing with a
weapon... weapons take discipline... discipline civilians just doesnt carry.
Adams
HK45Mark23
11-04-2004, 11:25 AM
Thank you Adams,:thumbsup:
I am proud of you. I want you to know how I feel about those who
defend our country and put their lives on the line fighting for democracy and freedom all around the world. To me,
you are a Super Hero. My family and I are forever indebted to you for your (and all solders now and through history
all the way back to the Revolutionary War) involvement in building, strengthening, and securing the America we know
today. Thanks.:wave:
HK45Mark23
DAdams91982
11-04-2004, 12:27 PM
Thank you Adams,:thumbsup:
I am proud of you. I want you to know how I feel about those who defend our country and
put their lives on the line fighting for democracy and freedom all around the world. To me, you are a Super Hero. My
family and I are forever indebted to you for your (and all solders now and through history all the way back to the
Revolutionary War) involvement in building, strengthening, and securing the America we know today. Thanks.:wave:
HK45Mark23
WOW...
Thanks... Just doing my part to protect the people I love, and the Way of life that I hold so dearly. Especially
after seeing how others in this world live.
Adams
metroman
11-04-2004, 05:55 PM
Please guys dont get so easily
suckered into the governments pronouncements...they're doing whatever is politically expedient for the moment
public relations wise...yeah sure they didn't want any talk of the draft being reinstituted prior to the
elections...there are many instances in history where the politicians have assured us that a draft is
unneccessary...FDR proclaimed the neutrality of the US during WWII prior to Pearl Harbor...LBJ made comments that a
draft would be unneccessary during the beginning phases of Vietnam...Mtn Jim has got it right...young men & women
are regarded as canon fodder by the politicians especially the ones just recently reelected. They have plans to
continue the imperialist ambitions of the neocons...next will be Iran then N Korea...even with a high tech military
personnel can only be stretched so thin.
"The pioneers of a warless world are the young
men & women who refuse military service"
-Albert Einstein
Mtnjim
11-04-2004, 07:02 PM
...next will be
Iran then N Korea...even with a high tech military personnel can only be stretched so thin.
"The pioneers of a warless world are the young
men & women who refuse military service"
-Albert Einstein
THE POINT EXACTLY!!!
Voluntary enlistments won't be
able to keep up with the demand wnen/if this happens. "W" intends to keep his word to "change the world".
I
was swept up in the last draft that "wasn't necessary", so don't be so sure you won't be this time.
If the
U. S. is going to be the "world police" enforcing our vision of the way to live, we're going to need "cannon
fodder" to make it happen.
:frustrate :frustrate :frustrate
DAdams91982
11-04-2004, 09:10 PM
And you mean to tell me
nothing was learned from the last draft??? This rumor was started by democrates durning the early stages of the
campaign to sway the election in kerrys favor.
Believe what you want... but I bet my life on it that it DOES NOT
HAPPEN!!!
Adams
handtohandking
11-04-2004, 09:22 PM
Although Kerry himself
was more in favor of a draft than Bush, that still doesn't mean that this administration won't go through with it.
And if it happens, I will be swept up in it, but I won't resist. It's not like imprisonment scares me, nor am I
some gung-ho American, but I won't dodge it and watch everyone else fight. They need me out there on the front
lines :twisted: ...
Pancho1188
11-05-2004, 06:07 AM
yeah sure they
didn't want any talk of the draft being reinstituted prior to the elections...there are many instances in history
where the politicians have assured us that a draft is unneccessary...FDR proclaimed the neutrality of the US during
WWII prior to Pearl Harbor...LBJ made comments that a draft would be unneccessary during the beginning phases of
Vietnam...
Ironically, the opposite happened during this election. Politicians brought it up to scare
people before the election.
DAdams91982
11-05-2004, 08:31 AM
Although Kerry himself was more in favor of a draft than Bush, that still doesn't mean that
this administration won't go through with it. And if it happens, I will be swept up in it, but I won't resist.
It's not like imprisonment scares me, nor am I some gung-ho American, but I won't dodge it and watch everyone else
fight. They need me out there on the front lines :twisted: ...
Then why not join on your own free will???
You sound pretty forward... join us at the front lines!!!
And again... Its not going to happen. (Draft)
Adams
handtohandking
11-05-2004, 12:08 PM
Then
why not join on your own free will??? You sound pretty forward... join us at the front lines!!!
And again... Its
not going to happen. (Draft)
Adams
Well, there have been times in my life where I considered the
military as an option, but right now I'm just trying to catch up with all the life I've been missing and
establishing myself. I'm even starting up my own business and plan on turning it into a huge success. BUT...if a
draft is put into place, I can't dodge it and be able to keep all of my liberties, unfortunately, so I refuse to
live a limited life here. And honestly, I'm a big strong guy in good shape with a sharp mind in this skull, so I
can help everyone else over there. I wouldn't do it in the name of this country or the government or any other
agenda; just the fact that my fellow soldiers should remain alive.
a.k.a.
11-05-2004, 06:26 PM
Regarding the Selective Service
Administration report detailing the SSA’s readiness to implement a draft in 2005...
These reports come
out every year, and they always detail the SSA’s readiness to implement a draft. Maintaining a state of readiness
is the SSA’s job. So, of course, this is what their annual reports are going to say.
The real question
is, can the military meet it’s current obligations with an all volunteer army? Because, if it can’t, a draft is
coming just as sure as leaves fall when it’s autumn.
The Iraq occupation is dragging out much longer than
anticipated, and the situation is getting worse instead of better. Meanwhile fewer and fewer people are
volunteering. The pentagon is facing a critical shortage of everything from truck drivers to surgeons.
It
is currently relying on stopgap measures, such as extended overseas deployments, heavy reliance on the National
Guard and Reserves, call-ups of Individual Ready Reservists and Retired Reservists, stop-loss orders, significant
reenlistment bonuses, and shifting of troops to complete understaffed units. When these measures have been
exhausted, we’re going to have a draft. No doubt about it.
My sense is that it’s coming soon (within
the next year). And the administration’s probably going to try to sneak its foot in the door with a “skills draft”
of medical professionals that won’t be stationed in battle zones. But once the initial legislation, authorizing a
skills draft, is passed, the president will have authority to add whatever skills the pentagon deems necessary to
the list.
PHP 87
11-05-2004, 06:58 PM
Congress is
Republican.
Well, I guess you missed the part about Congress recently voting down the Draft proposal
by a vote of something like 405-2
The same proposal written and introduced by Democrat Charlie
Rangle.
And it was Kerry who wanted to put 40,000 more troops on the ground in Iraq.
Where were they
going to come from?
Also, todays Military is a professional fighting force - drafting and including people
who don't want to be there would be counter-productive.
Again, there will be no draft under President
Bush.
Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't understand the issue or know the facts.
It was
nothing more than a shameless scare tactic designed to get young people to the polls to vote for Kerry.
DAdams91982
11-05-2004, 09:34 PM
Well, I guess
you missed the part about Congress recently voting down the Draft proposal by a vote of something like 405-2
The
same proposal written and introduced by Democrat Charlie Rangle.
And it was Kerry who wanted to put 40,000 more
troops on the ground in Iraq.
Where were they going to come from?
Also, todays Military is a professional
fighting force - drafting and including people who don't want to be there would be counter-productive.
Again,
there will be no draft under President Bush.
Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't understand the issue
or know the facts.
It was nothing more than a shameless scare tactic designed to get young people to the polls
to vote for Kerry.
EXACTLY... More and More people are volunteering.. .that is where you are wrong...
there are SO MANY reservists that can be tapped still... Hell US Air Force are kicking people out because it is way
over crowded... and they are going strait to the US Army... Now the Army is never going to meet its "Quota" Never
has... it has a pipe dream for a number... but that doesnt mean a draft will be imposed for the remaining... again
shameless scare tactic.
Adams
a.k.a.
11-06-2004, 08:36 AM
More and More
people are volunteering.. .
"The Army is expected to meet its goal of 77,000 new active-duty recruits
for the 2004 fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30. But Army officials are far less certain about next year, when the
service will have to persuade 80,000 young adults to sign up in the midst of a prolonged guerrilla war in Iraq and
an improving economy at home.
Army planners are still debating how many new recruiters to add, but they
intend to send at least 300 more to recruiting offices across the USA to bolster the Army's force of about 6,000
active and reserve recruiters, says Doug Smith, a spokesman at Army Recruiting Command at Fort Knox in
Kentucky.
To lure new prospects, the cash bonuses in some hard-to-fill specialties will rise to a maximum of
$15,000, more than double the previous top bonus of $6,000 for a three-year enlistment. The top bonus for most
recruits will rise to $10,000.
The concern over potential recruiting shortfalls comes as the Pentagon is
having increasing difficulty finding enough troops for ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Long overseas tours
have soured some current troops and have made the military less enticing for some potential recruits. The improving
U.S. economy has lured others to civilian jobs.
There also is a growing shortage in the Army's Delayed Entry
Program, which allows recruits to sign up months ahead of the time they are required to report to boot
camp.
Because of an increased demand for recruits this year, the Army has been rushing delayed-entry soldiers
into basic training ahead of schedule. That has depleted the pool of soldiers who would have reported next year and
added to the burden for recruiters.
Loren Thompson, a military analyst at the Lexington Institute in
Arlington, Va., says the signs point to difficult times ahead for the Army.
"This is not a good situation.
The National Guard is not meeting its recruiting numbers, the active-duty Army is having to take unusual steps just
to meet its numbers," Thompson says. "The practice of putting delayed-entry personnel in right now assures that
after the election the numbers will not be
met."
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_army_080504,00.html
Hell US Air Force are kicking people out because it is way over crowded... and they are going strait to the US
Army...
Last July the pentagon launched an initiative (“Operation Blue to Green”) to
“rebalance the size of the military”. The Air Force is moving toward reducing its forces by 20,000 in FY 2005 and
the Navy is moving towards reductions of 8,000. Sailors and Airmen that agree to transfer into the Army will receive
significant bonuses and are being assured that their status and benefits will continue without interruption.
The
Army HOPES that Operation Blue to Green will bring in 8,000 new recruits. But, even if it does, this is only 10% of
the projected goal.
And actual needs may be higher. The Joint Chiefs of Staff project a need for 100,000 troops
in Iraq for the next 4-5 years. But the current number is 130,000 and even this doesn't appear to be
enought.
Bush and Rumsfeld can say what they want. They might even believe their own rhetoric. But mathematics
trumps ideology everytime.
DAdams91982
11-06-2004, 10:11 AM
"The Army is
expected to meet its goal of 77,000 new active-duty recruits for the 2004 fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30. But Army
officials are far less certain about next year, when the service will have to persuade 80,000 young adults to sign
up in the midst of a prolonged guerrilla war in Iraq and an improving economy at home.
Army planners are still
debating how many new recruiters to add, but they intend to send at least 300 more to recruiting offices across the
USA to bolster the Army's force of about 6,000 active and reserve recruiters, says Doug Smith, a spokesman at Army
Recruiting Command at Fort Knox in Kentucky.
To lure new prospects, the cash bonuses in some hard-to-fill
specialties will rise to a maximum of $15,000, more than double the previous top bonus of $6,000 for a three-year
enlistment. The top bonus for most recruits will rise to $10,000.
The concern over potential recruiting
shortfalls comes as the Pentagon is having increasing difficulty finding enough troops for ongoing wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan. Long overseas tours have soured some current troops and have made the military less enticing for some
potential recruits. The improving U.S. economy has lured others to civilian jobs.
There also is a growing
shortage in the Army's Delayed Entry Program, which allows recruits to sign up months ahead of the time they are
required to report to boot camp.
Because of an increased demand for recruits this year, the Army has been
rushing delayed-entry soldiers into basic training ahead of schedule. That has depleted the pool of soldiers who
would have reported next year and added to the burden for recruiters.
Loren Thompson, a military analyst at the
Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va., says the signs point to difficult times ahead for the Army.
"This is not
a good situation. The National Guard is not meeting its recruiting numbers, the active-duty Army is having to take
unusual steps just to meet its numbers," Thompson says. "The practice of putting delayed-entry personnel in right
now assures that after the election the numbers will not be met."
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13
319,FL_army_080504,00.html (http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_army_080504,00.html)
Last July the pentagon launched an initiative (“Operation Blue to
Green”) to “rebalance the size of the military”. The Air Force is moving toward reducing its forces by 20,000 in FY
2005 and the Navy is moving towards reductions of 8,000. Sailors and Airmen that agree to transfer into the Army
will receive significant bonuses and are being assured that their status and benefits will continue without
interruption.
The Army HOPES that Operation Blue to Green will bring in 8,000 new recruits. But, even if it does,
this is only 10% of the projected goal.
And actual needs may be higher. The Joint Chiefs of Staff project a need
for 100,000 troops in Iraq for the next 4-5 years. But the current number is 130,000 and even this doesn't appear
to be enought.
Bush and Rumsfeld can say what they want. They might even believe their own rhetoric. But
mathematics trumps ideology everytime.
And all of this is only predictions... the time that any branch
picks up 90% of its recruits for the year is may/june time... the DEP program may be depleted right now... but who
wants to join the military just before Christmas??? (Besides me)... these numbers will fill up come that time...
They always do... but like I said... the Army almost ALWAYS fails to meet their quota... and it hasnt hindered us
before. and no matter if they dont meet it... there will still be NO Draft... that is the point here... THERE WILL
BE NO DRAFT.
These situations will only bring on a military that will TRUELY be here for the country...
through thick and thin... only bringing in the people who hold these things true to heart... and are willing to
fight for them... not the people looking to drive a bus on base to pay their way through college.
Adams
Friendly1
11-06-2004, 03:28 PM
The media have been agonizing
over the Army's ability to meet its recruiting goals every year since we switched to an all-volunteer army. There
were a few years when they actually didn't meet those commitments. Even so, we didn't go back to a draft.
The
draft sucked the wind out of our country. It is now only a politically expedient stick with which to stir up a
frenzied comparison to Vietnam.
While there is a very real chance that "W" may involve us in a situation we
cannot handle (and Iraq is not such a situation, despite the mistakes that have been made), the people leading our
military are almost all still Vietnam veterans. They don't want to go through that kind of era again.
Watcher
11-07-2004, 03:11 AM
basically if bush keeps carrying
on with this christian inspired (stupid crusade in iraq) someone is going to try and assainate him - i personally
dont want to see this happen but he is pissing the rest of the world off.
Friendly1
11-07-2004, 07:17 AM
basically if
bush keeps carrying on with this christian inspired (stupid crusade in iraq) someone is going to try and assainate
him
That is just nonsense. What Bush is doing in Iraq is a direct consequence of more than 60 years of
U.S. foreign and economic policy. We basically made Saddam Hussein, and we had to do something about him.
If
Bush had done nothing, his successor (either Republican or Democrat) would probably have been forced to act, and we
would still be dealing with foreign interference.
And once you go into a country like that, you have an
obligation to leave it with a stable, orderly form of government. Otherwise, you just create another Afghanistan.
a.k.a.
11-07-2004, 10:19 AM
The 18-29 vote simply failed to
materialize in numbers significant enough to make a difference, given the overall greater turnout.
Bill
O’Rielly made a snide comment about, “Are they actually going to leave their bongs and stand in line to vote?”
But I think the Democrats simply failed to field a candidate that could address the interests of this
demographic.
Black turnout was high, but this constituency was either overshadowed by the Evangelical
vote, stolen (once again), or some combination of the two.
I’m still skeptical about who won the vote,
but, based on the following comparison of exit polls (200 vs 2004) Kerry still made a miserable showing:
Bush
2000 / Bush 2004
African-Americans: 8% / 11%
Whites: 54% / 58%
Hispanic: 41% / 44%
Married: 53% /
56%
Not Married: 38% / 40%
Union Members: 37% / 40%
Gays: 25% / 23%
Gun Owners: 61% /
67%
Protestants: 63% / 59%
Jewish: 19% / 25%
Catholics: 45% / 52%
Republicans: 91% / 93%
Democrats:
10% / 11%
Men: 51% / 55%
Women: 43% / 48%
18-29 year olds: 46% / 45%
30-44 year olds: 49% / 53%
45-59
year olds: 49% / 51%
60+ 47% / 54%
Based on National Exit
Polls.
http://counterpunch.org/wire11042004.html
DAdams91982
11-07-2004, 10:57 AM
stolen (once
again)
Pure Bullshit...
And so is the comment of a Christian Inspired Crusade
That is all
adams
koolking1
11-08-2004, 02:36 PM
Adams, thanks for serving!
Now, why do you think the Guard was given so much responsibility in this current war?
DrSmellThis
11-08-2004, 04:48 PM
Given a constant level of
military activity, I think either side was equally likely to initiate and push through a draft, and it
probably wouldn't happen. But we cannot assume an equal propensity to military aggression between the
parties. That is the key difference. Remember the PNAC documents?
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