How to reverse the "I like you" mistake, guys make

[DeMoKiLL]

Recently this girl that i've liked for a long time, I told her I liked her and obviously

she turned me down saying "im glad you will always be a good FRIEND to me". I read some articles by david and sloan

and now I know why. So just for fun I thought hrmm ill try something new. So since I come in contact with her a lot

everyday, I started just ignoring her like just not starting conversations with her, if she would say my name I

would act like I didn't hear it, if she asked a question I would keep it short leaving her question unanswered but

in a smooth way. After I started doing this I noticed she tries to get my attention now by calling my name etc. Am I

right in doing this? Is there anything else I can do to turn my mistake around and give me the upper hand?

The

one and only,
Demokill

[culturalblonde]

I don't think you made a

mistake, you were being honest and that's a good quality. At least now, you know how she feels and she knows how

you feel.

From what I've read in this forum by others, I take it people want what they can't have. Do you

have any girl that you can be seen with while this girl is around? Although that's playing games, something I

despise, but it seems to work in some situations.

I always start off my relationships as friends. What gets

my attention when it comes to men is a great sense of humor. And I have to have something in common with the guy.



And one final note... Don't frown. You never know who is falling in love with your smile.

[DeMoKiLL]

I don't

think you made a mistake, you were being honest and that's a good quality. At least now, you know how she feels and

she knows how you feel.

From what I've read in this forum by others, I take it people want what they can't

have. Do you have any girl that you can be seen with while this girl is around? Although that's playing games,

something I despise, but it seems to work in some situations.

I always start off my relationships as friends.

What gets my attention when it comes to men is a great sense of humor. And I have to have something in common with

the guy.

And one final note... Don't frown. You never know who is falling in love with your smile.


Indeed your right about the hanging with another girl thing, I hang out with a lot of girls just as friends and I

had a girl shout I love you (name) (playfully, not serious) behind me and she heard it then later on she kept trying

to get my attention;-) but I wouldn't let her muahaha

[DeMoKiLL]

What can I do to make her

attracted to me? Has anyone else read any of the archer sloan, david deangelo products, and had any success with

them? If so what did you do to make it work?

[Gegogi]

Sheesh, I recently told a female

friend I liked her and she jumped my bones. On the other hand, I've confessed love to women I had a sexual

relationship with and they a) ran away as fast as they could or b) took advantage of my new found weakness. So,

there are no hard 'n fast rules in love 'n relationships. You gotta learn how to improvise for the moment at

hand.

[DeMoKiLL]

Well this isn't a rare

example, she told me she is glad I will always be a good friend to her. What do I do to change "friend" into

boyfriend?

[tounge]

I don't

think you made a mistake, you were being honest and that's a good quality. At least now, you know how she feels

and she knows how you feel.

From what I've read in this forum by others, I take it people want what they

can't have. Do you have any girl that you can be seen with while this girl is around? Although that's playing

games, something I despise, but it seems to work in some situations.

I always start off my relationships as

friends. What gets my attention when it comes to men is a great sense of humor. And I have to have something in

common with the guy.

And one final note... Don't frown. You never know who is falling in love with your

smile.





Blondie, you have made some great points. One of the best posts a women has

made around here. Short and to the point.


Too many of these youngsters are looking for magic answers.

They have been given much insight from many people that post here. It's up to them to discern the truth from the

BS, and put it into practice.

[Gegogi]

"Well this isn't a rare

example, she told me she is glad I will always be a good friend to her. What do I do to change "friend" into

boyfriend?"
I'm not sure what you mean by "rare" example, but I've told many women I really liked them,

had a great friendship and later that friendship blossomed into something more. Not everyone is looking for true

love or going "steady." Lots of women, especially younger women, just want to have a good time, hang out and hop in

the sack from time to time. Being friends is one of the best ways to start. If you're meant to be together it will

happen. If not, you still have a friend and good times to remember. You can't do anything to force the situation.

[Friendly1]

Well this

isn't a rare example, she told me she is glad I will always be a good friend to her. What do I do to change

"friend" into boyfriend?
You cannot "make" anyone feel anything. You can only give them reasons to feel

one way or another and then let them decide.

If you want to be viewed as boyfriend material, you have to act

like boyfriend material without seeming like you are only interested in that one person.

Ignoring her may help,

but you don't want to seem rude or petulant. Just be a calm, confident man who lives his own life.

She'll

either get the message and change her tune, or she won't. Your life shouldn't be ruined if she doesn't change

her mind.

Learn from this experience.

Friends can and do fall in love. It happens all the time. But the

more you try to make it happen, the less likely it will.

[Snoopy]

Just be yourself around her, but

at the same time try and figure out which -mone combo works best on her. Girls dont like it when the only life you

have is chasing after them.

[jollysnowdevil]

You

cannot "make" anyone feel anything. You can only give them reasons to feel one way or another and then let them

decide.

If you want to be viewed as boyfriend material, you have to act like boyfriend material without seeming

like you are only interested in that one person.

Ignoring her may help, but you don't want to seem rude or

petulant. Just be a calm, confident man who lives his own life.

She'll either get the message and change her

tune, or she won't. Your life shouldn't be ruined if she doesn't change her mind.

Learn from this

experience.

Friends can and do fall in love. It happens all the time. But the more you try to make it happen,

the less likely it will.
AMEN- ive had many good relationships with women who

started as friends. in fact the best loves of my life were friends. however keep in mind Sex does ruin

friendships.
maybe next time instead of saying "i like you" maybe give her a flower or something

like that. Actions speak louder than words sometimes. it could have been the way you said it.
if it

doesnt work out than oh well. its her loss

[DeMoKiLL]

Im going to completely ignore

her for a week, she is like begging for my attention now I can feel the power! I was in class one day and she was

like don't forget to bring in food for the can food drive (name) all you need is 15 bla bla and I was like yea..

and I turned away and talked to someone else then shes like whats wrong? and then someone turns and shes like he

hates me now:-) Ill keep this going and maybe if I keep it up long enough she will want me so bad she will beg and

plead. muahaha the power! oh and by the way David DeAngelo RULES! He's funny and he boosts your level of confidence

that you never thought was possible.

[Snoopy]

Im going to

completely ignore her for a week, she is like begging for my attention now I can feel the power! I was in class one

day and she was like don't forget to bring in food for the can food drive (name) all you need is 15 bla bla and I

was like yea.. and I turned away and talked to someone else then shes like whats wrong? and then someone turns and

shes like he hates me now:-) Ill keep this going and maybe if I keep it up long enough she will want me so bad she

will beg and plead. muahaha the power! oh and by the way David DeAngelo RULES! He's funny and he boosts your level

of confidence that you never thought was possible.
Just be careful that your plan doesn't backfire on

you. Given that situation, I'm not sure if I would completely ignore her... I would certainly avoid initiating any

conversations with her, but if she decides to talk to you, by all means try not to be a jerk! You should be in a

great mood, be overly happy, but don't drag the conversation on. End it sooner than she'd expect. Make her want to

become part of your life, not the other way around. Try not to have many moments with her, but the ones you DO have

with her, blow her out of her mind. Every time she thinks of you from then on, she will think only good things, THEN

she will be under your control.

[DeMoKiLL]

ok ill tune it down a little

bit and pay a little bit more attention to her, see if the 4 days so far did anything:-D. Ill keep conversations to

a minimum and the ones that we do have will be strictly cut to relationship stuff, as stated in DYD, don't ever

have an intelligent conversation

[bjf]

huh? Your not supposed to have an

intelligent conversations? And isn't talking about relationships bad in his book?

[TRock]

no you can have intelligent

conversation but not in demokill's current situation. but honestly demokill this is one-itis. you're best strategy

is to pick up other chicks preferably better looking than her and rub it in her face. or you might decide this new

chick is a better option for you.

[Snoopy]

I agree with the one-itis. Just

keep her in the back of your mind and go on with the rest of your life... if something happens, it will happen, if

not, then that's why you've been looking for other targets!

[DeMoKiLL]

not intelligent, intellectual,

I ran out of time to make that correction.

[DeMoKiLL]

so what should I do, should I

talk to her and try to act like ill listen but not really interested or should I just like ignore her until she does

something?

[MOBLEYC57]

so what should I

do, should I talk to her and try to act like ill listen but not really interested or should I just like ignore her

until she does something?:type: Ignore her until she does something, kill her with charm, and once the

conversation breaks, go back to ignoring her again. As with everything else, there are exceptions to just about

everything. Like jealousy, people get so caught up in making someone jealous that they overlook/block out the other

result ... it either brings them back, ORRRRRR it pushes them away forever. Is she worth the risk of

losing? If the answer is yes, have fun, and continue playing. :wave: And always remember, the next one that

walks onto your most desired list, maybe somewhere near, watching you, while you're being a jerk to this girl (or

her friends), so, be a good jerk, and understand that if she's not laughing while you're at it, you're not doing

too well. :run:

[canivaro]

wow. mobley, that was like the

TIP OF THE MONTH! im sirius mon.

:cheers:

[phersurf]

Deangelo says once you're in

LJBF land to move on. You can turn the situation around, but it takes a lot of work. There are many more women out

there.

It sounds like you're putting too much importance on a particular outcome with women. That

immediately puts her in the position of power because she is the one doing the chosing.

Don't ignore her,

bust her balls in a funny way, demonstrate that you could care less if she's interested in you or not. Date other

women. If she sees that you have a life and are in demand, her opinion might change and she might move you from the

LJBF part of her brain into the "possible mate" part. But if you're dating other women, you may not care if this

particular one goes out with you or not.

[Yoel]

One-itis, as others already said.

Go on with your life, she'll notice and eventually miss your attentions, or maybe not, so who cares, you'll be

going out with other women by that time won't you? :)

Yoel

[DeMoKiLL]

it is a one-itis, ill be

willing to put in the work to turn it around but like today she didn't say anything she just whispered to a guy and

told him that I was mad at her then he like asked me, I just played it off and said ill tell you some other time, he

asked me again I said it doesn't matter, forget about it, and he didn't ask me again.

[DeMoKiLL]

What should I do, should I keep

ignoring her until she tries to get my attention in a drastic way and then all the meantime hang out with other

girls? Or should I start talking to her again forgetting about her making a move?

[DeMoKiLL]

:type: Ignore

her until she does something, kill her with charm, and once the conversation breaks, go back to ignoring her again.

As with everything else, there are exceptions to just about everything. Like jealousy, people get so caught up in

making someone jealous that they overlook/block out the other result ... it either brings them back, ORRRRRR

it pushes them away forever. Is she worth the risk of losing? If the answer is yes, have fun, and

continue playing. :wave: And always remember, the next one that walks onto your most desired list, maybe somewhere

near, watching you, while you're being a jerk to this girl (or her friends), so, be a good jerk, and understand

that if she's not laughing while you're at it, you're not doing too well. :run: No not worth losing,

first girl i've actually seen that was worth my time in a long while. But, despite the fact that shes probably one

of the best i've seen so far, ill just forget about it, ill keep playing and just see what happens for fun.

[DeMoKiLL]

How should I answer why im

"mad" at her?

[Yoel]

What a lackey that guy :D
You

should have delivered a quick line at him, nothing comes to my mind now, the opportunity is gone anyway.

I

don't think you should ignore her, you should be more on the lines of "being aloof". I'm in a rush now but if you

post her behaviour, how she is responding to your last actions, we could sure help.

Yoel

[DeMoKiLL]

dunn worry he wasn't with the

girl she was gone when she asked but he has respect for me so its all good

[DeMoKiLL]

how should I turn from

completely ignoring to being aloof?

[DeMoKiLL]

and what SHOULD I say to change

how she thinks about me, and to remove my status of being mad to being attractive

[Bruce]

OK, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth

here. Rather than say vague stuff like "I like you" which can be taken as "Jeez, I sure am one lonely MF", say

stuff like "Hey, you got your hair cut; looks great!" or "Very nice dress" or whatever. The trick is being "real"

spontaneous etc etc. If you do it right, you can really give the girl a buzz without sticking you neck out in the

least. You remain a mystery. Maybe you are already in a commited relationship. You are just letting the gal know

you notice and appreciate her without saying you *need* her for some agenda of your own. You have to be cool about

it though. If you hang around waiting for her to "respond" to your "technique", you blow the whole thing. The key

is to "appreciate" rather than "need". Same goes with being helpful. If it is obvious you just want some nooky and

are not really a naturally helpful guy, you might just as well tell her how lonely and horny you are.

B

[Snoopy]

I don't think there's anything

you can SAY to completely brain wash her into being attracted to you. You've listened to David DeAngelo, have you

not? The words are a mere 7% of the total communication expressed. Hopefully you haven't made her too upset by

"ignoring" her. I think you should just drop that act and be who you normally are around school - with one

exception: don't initiate any conversations with her. Wait for HER to do it. I've tried the ignoring thing before

when I was in high-school, and when I had one-itis over this one girl. I liked the "attention" I was receiving, but

believe me, I didn't figure out until later that it was the bad kind of attention... and not the good. If you keep

this up, you'll be labelled as "too moody" for her - that's what happened to me, and it's taken me 2 years to rid

myself of that label (I'm still friends with her).

On a side note.. if you could maybe group your posts into 1

big one, would save us a lot of trouble having to keep scrolling down to read more! Thanks :)

DeMoKiLL, I

suggest you re-read David DeAngelo's stuff, and always remember, YOU have the edge because YOU have the -mones

working for you - combine those along with the you that made her friends with you in the first place, and you can't

go wrong. There's no quick fix to anything.

[CptKipling]

How should I

answer why im "mad" at her?
Something allong the lines of telling her she is being silly and reading too

much into things. Don't break the tension by acting nicey-nice all of a sudden though.

Act aloof by talking to

her, but only in a very casual way. So talk back when she talks to you, but keep your outward enthusiasm about

talking to her to a relatively low level (so cut things short). You can initiate conversations aswell, but stay

casual and don't get gushy. Don't be rude, and be funny and make jokes around her (take the piss out of her

slightly aswell).

Easy enough? ;)

[DeMoKiLL]

alright, but idk when she did

talk to me I kind of just acted like I was ignoring her, so calling her silly may be a bit weird because it was

obvious. Oh well ill try it, after a while in my life, I don't really care what happens or not. She just is that

special one to me, more for her personality then her looks. But hey she is good looking so she has a lot of guys

going for her as well so I have to do something that makes me above them.

[CptKipling]

(I just read a previous post

properly)
Don't give her the explanation out of the blue, only offer it if she asks.

[DeMoKiLL]

ok I have another plan, would

this work out? Im going to say you know that time way back when I said I liked you, well I was just joking, I hope

you didn't take it seriously, I only want to be friends. I have my sights set on a few other girls. After listening

to more david deangelo I concluded that, that would be the best thing to say because it would make me look more

selective by basically saying, you can't have me that way (making her want it even more). Do you agree this would

turn the whole thing around and put me in the seat of power?

[BassMan]

ok I have another

plan, would this work out? Im going to say you know that time way back when I said I liked you, well I was just

joking, I hope you didn't take it seriously, I only want to be friends. I have my sights set on a few other girls.

After listening to more david deangelo I concluded that, that would be the best thing to say because it would make

me look more selective by basically saying, you can't have me that way (making her want it even more). Do you agree

this would turn the whole thing around and put me in the seat of power?I think it would sound rather

contrived, myself.

-Bass

[bjf]

I think it would sound

rather contrived, myself.

-Bass

So do I, but I still want to see what would happen.

[DeMoKiLL]

yea if she asks why I did it

ill say I was just messing around and held it on for so long to see what she would do

[Gegogi]

If you do that, you'll probably

be plugged as insincere and a liar and that will be that.

[CptKipling]

Yeah, actions speak louder than

words.

Don't tell her your not gushy, show her.

[TRock]

ok I have another

plan, would this work out? Im going to say you know that time way back when I said I liked you, well I was just

joking, I hope you didn't take it seriously, I only want to be friends. I have my sights set on a few other girls.

After listening to more david deangelo I concluded that, that would be the best thing to say because it would make

me look more selective by basically saying, you can't have me that way (making her want it even more). Do you agree

this would turn the whole thing around and put me in the seat of power?

don't do that. just accept

what you did as a man. making excuses will make you look like aweirdo to her. play aloof and make it look like

she's seeing too much into things.

[Snoopy]

Friendly1's sticky comes to mind

when reading this

thread:
http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1131

9 (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11319)

[Yoel]

The "I was just joking" excuse is

soo lame, you could as well take an indelible marker and write 'wussy' all over your face. Did you really listen

to DYD? I'd take another look at it if I were you. And you being you, you should. :D

By the way, you

pretty much messed up when you started ignoring her, this would be the final kick in the nuts.
Captain explained

the exact meaning of "being aloof". Moreover, if she goes wtf, why did you ignore me yesterday (your fault :P), just

turn it around. "Why, I didn't think you'd care that much. Are you saying you're in love with me? Because,

that's a shame, you pretty much killed your chances with me."

Yoel

[DeMoKiLL]

confidence isn't really apart

of it, I have as much confidence as I need, I can pretty much go up to any girl and make a move, im not afraid of it

AT ALL. This is different.

[Snoopy]

If you don't get yourself

together, the situation will just get worse. It's about 10 times easier to dig a hole for yourself than to get out,

and from the looks of it you just keep digging and digging. So stop. Take a break. Go enjoy your other hobbies for a

while and try not to think about her for a few days. Then, when you do come back to think about her, try to see what

YOU are like from HER eyes, or at least from a perspective other than your own. Sometimes mixing up reality with

what you think is all it takes to ruin something good.

[Snoopy]

confidence isn't

really apart of it, I have as much confidence as I need, I can pretty much go up to any girl and make a move, im not

afraid of it AT ALL. This is different.
This is one-itis.

[Pancho1188]

ok I have

another plan, would this work out? Im going to say you know that time way back when I said I liked you, well I was

just joking, I hope you didn't take it seriously, I only want to be friends. I have my sights set on a few other

girls. After listening to more david deangelo I concluded that, that would be the best thing to say because it would

make me look more selective by basically saying, you can't have me that way (making her want it even more). Do you

agree this would turn the whole thing around and put me in the seat of power?
You'll totally look like a

tool. I wouldn't buy that for a second. Just let it go, man... (the comment, that is) Just the fact that you

brought it up again shows that you care. Think about it. I've jokingly told people I had a crush on them, and I

never mentioned it again because I was, in fact, joking. Of course, they knew I was...but I wouldn't have

mentioned it again even if they didn't. Why? I didn't really like them...

I hope you take a moment to

process that. If you take the time to bring up the subject, it shows you care about the subject.

If you want to

show disinterest in her, you could go to her with girl advice for other women. The problem: you must

actually have a girl problem to go to them with. People will see through a 'made-up' situation. Think about all

of those movies where they say, "I have this friend...I like her but don't know what to do," you'll sound like

you're talking about her or something. Problem #2: If you like her and are solely talking to her for advice to get

to her, it will kill you inside if she's so enthusiastic and helpful instead of your hopeful reaction of held-back

jealousy.

I don't like to be negative and take down your hopes, man, but your best bet is to be a friend and

move on to other people. You can't change her mind over night, so the only way you're going to prove her

otherwise is to have her realize that you are the one she should want. Now, the problem I have is that I

can't do that. If I cross the line into really liking someone, I can't go back and be okay. I had the patience

once to live with my feelings while being friends and got the girl after 5 months, but it drove me insane for

that time (funny how it was worth it when it actually happened). I'm in a similar situation right now, and since I

don't want to go through what I did before, I'm trying to just get away from it. Unfortunately, I can't...so

I'm making the best of it. I wish you better luck than me, man, but your best bet is to move on to other things

and maybe she'll change her mind.

[MOBLEYC57]

yea if she asks

why I did it ill say I was just messing around and held it on for so long to see what she would

doTRANSLATION 1: I like playing with people I care about heads. :rant:

TRANSLATION of TRANSLATION 1: If

you're into people playing games with your head, I'm your man!:thumbsup:

You'd come out better by just

saying, "I don't know." :frustrate It will make you look stupid, but it keeps you from putting your foot in your

mouth! :thumbsup:

Either or ......................................... LOSER! :twisted:

[Indigo]

alright, but idk

when she did talk to me I kind of just acted like I was ignoring her, so calling her silly may be a bit weird

because it was obvious. Oh well ill try it, after a while in my life, I don't really care what happens or not. She

just is that special one to me, more for her personality then her looks. But hey she is good looking so she has a

lot of guys going for her as well so I have to do something that makes me above them.
Hello DeMoKiLL,



well, as I am likely one of the less successfull members regarding woman, I won't give you any advice ( you would

probably not benefit too much adhering it ) but here is what I think and believe:

Stop playing Games !!!!!!!

( not meant offensive )

If I got it right you have known her for a relatively long time. You learned to

appreciate her personality and began to feel more than just friendship and physical attraction for her. You showed

your feeling ( perhaps in an too friendshiplike way ? ), told her about it and she turned you down. I don't know if

she was bad to you in other ways or if she turned you down in an inappropriate, rude or insulting way, but I guess

you would have told us. So taking all that, it must have been hard for you, but nothing someone could blame your

friend for.
It is absolutely understandable and ok that you feel kind of pissed of at times and it is also ok when

you don't hide it from her. But.... stop gaming!
I know honesty, integrity and respect are qualities that help to

keep relationships alive and make them longlasting and fortunate, but only in rare cases they cause people to fall

in love.
You both are far from the usual firs steps of superficial flirting and playing games ( which is good and

funny, it simply belongs to human mating rituals ). But your relationship is already deeper, so many of the things

you should take into account when getting to know a new interesting girl does not apply to your problem.
Stop

acting in certain ways for tactical reasons! Be yourself! If you feel hurt by her.. show it ( or to put it in better

words ... don't hide it). You really like her, so if you do feel like beeing friendly and charming to her or

whatever ... damn... than do it !!!! There has to be room for that honesty, more than ever regarding that you have

known her for more than just a few weeks!!Integrity, sincerity and honesty does not show through what you say but

how you say it and with which intention you said it.
If she is really worth it she will recognize your value (

perhaps as a boyfriend, perhaps "only" as a close, trustworthy friend ). She definitely likes you! The whispering to

the other guy, that you would be mad at her, and trying to get your attention seeing you ignoring her clearly show

that she is caring.
Only god knows what more might be behind it, but if you want to get going a decent

relationship with the potential of lasting more than a few month ( and most of what you wrote in this thread tell me

you want more ) the only way to get that from this ( or another ) girl is to be sincere. It was not her fault that

she didn't fall in love until now ( perhaps it will happpen ), so if there is nothing else what she did wrong in

your opinion, you should apologize. I don't say that you have to tell her the whole truth about your reasons fro

beeing mad at her. Telling her of having been in a bad mood for whatever reason would not be a lie. She will

understand it ( if she feels that you are sincere and not playing stupid games and tactics ). Perhaps you could even

tell her the whole story. But I think even these two examples of what to say to her are nothing you

need.
You are the onlyperson who knows what is the right thing to do. Listen to your instinct and your

feelings when you are with her. Be open to the signals and trust yourself, then you will know what to say and how

to say it!
If your "special one" has the emotional potential of falling in love with you ( not your tactics and

sayings but you and what you are ), she will do it. But therefor you have to be you at first and show her

your potential, beeing reliabel and sincere! If she has not that potential, then nothing in the world will change

it.
Perhaps clever seducing tactics, body language and certain behaviour ( you got more than enough advice about

that ) will be more successfull. But eventually you want someone feeling appealed to your deeper personality ( which

is the second step after first datings and the more superficial attraction, but as I said, IMO you are simply beyond

that with her) and not your seducing tactics, even if they work.
If she is really your "special one" you will be

successfull and if not :

You can stand up every morning, look into the mirror and think " I fell in love with

this girl, I was myself and didn't hide it. I did the right things and I did what I believed in. She didn't return

my feeling... ok things like that happen... it's hard but I will go on and find my real " special one" ! "

You

can only grow from that experience !!!!
No person in the world, especially not your special one, is worth betraying

or humiliating yourself.
And there is definitely no need to do it!

Good luck and make the best out of it for

you !

Indigo


P.S. Sorry for all the aspic, but I am really that naive !

[Pancho1188]

Moreover, if she

goes wtf, why did you ignore me yesterday (your fault :P), just turn it around. "Why, I didn't think you'd care

that much. Are you saying you're in love with me? Because, that's a shame, you pretty much killed your chances

with me."I hope people remember that indifferent people won't care if they 'lost' their chances and will

laugh in your face if you accuse them of liking you. I know because I just did it as a joke once and regretted it

immensely shortly afterwards after I got the equivalent of a rejection and didn't even mean it.

-I think you

have a secret admirer.
--(sarcastically) I think you're just projecting. *Laughs*
-What?
--You don't know what

'projecting' is? It's a psychology term. I'll explain it, but remember that I'm just joking. Do not take it

seriously. *Explains projection* (Note: projection is when you project your feelings onto someone else, e.g. saying

someone likes a person when in reality you do)
-*Blushes and Laughs* No, someone likes you and I can guarantee you

it is not me. Sorry, buddy.
--*sigh* (I was just joking...didn't I say that twice because I know you take

things seriously?)

[Yoel]

Oh, and about the "I'm all into

her personality" thing, that's bullshit, you're walking with blinders on! Risen from thy throne of discontent and

go approach some other women NOW! I command you!
I just set you free. Am I the best buddy or what? :D



Yoel

[Yoel]

I hope people

remember that indifferent people won't care if they 'lost' their chances and will laugh in your face if you

accuse them of liking you. I know because I just did it as a joke once and regretted it immensely shortly afterwards

after I got the equivalent of a rejection and didn't even mean it.

-I think you have a secret admirer.


--(sarcastically) I think you're just projecting. *Laughs*
-What?
--*Explains projection* (Note: projection

is when you project your feelings onto someone else, e.g. saying someone likes a person when in reality you do)


-*Blushes and Laughs* No, someone likes you and I can guarantee you it is not me. Sorry, buddy.




...and I was just joking... Well, I'd say that happened for two (2) reasons. Let me explain:


reason number 1) you laughed...who ever laughs at his own jokes? come on :)
and reason number 2) when you have to

"explain" a joke it gets boring altogether, you should have replied something on he lines of 'Oh, I get it: you're

in denial now" and then turn away leaving her wondering :D

Yoel

PS: I forgot the most important note:

in my suggestion he says "but you can't have me" before she actually has a chance to understand what's going on,

while you gave her plenty of time (explaining it too), like you were expecting some sort of response. While in my

example (yeah, I know, I should buy a thesaurus) he just assumes it, which is funny if delivered well.

[Snoopy]

I hope people

remember that indifferent people won't care if they 'lost' their chances and will laugh in your face if you

accuse them of liking you. I know because I just did it as a joke once and regretted it immensely shortly afterwards

after I got the equivalent of a rejection and didn't even mean it.

-I think you have a secret

admirer.
--(sarcastically) I think you're just projecting. *Laughs*
-What?
--*Explains projection* (Note:

projection is when you project your feelings onto someone else, e.g. saying someone likes a person when in reality

you do)
-*Blushes and Laughs* No, someone likes you and I can guarantee you it is not me. Sorry, buddy.




...and I was just joking...
I've been rejected like that a couple times. It wasn't really fun.. since

I was joking with the person I actually liked .. lol

[DeMoKiLL]

Oh, and about the

"I'm all into her personality" thing, that's bullshit, you're walking with blinders on! Risen from thy throne of

discontent and go approach some other women NOW! I command you!
I just set you free. Am I the best buddy or

what? :D

Yoel Actually I am, and have yet to find someone who can even compare.

[Yoel]

Actually I am, and

have yet to find someone who can even compare. Ok now free your mind. Think about the sea, the forest,

smurfs or whatever. Then think about her personality. I mean HER personality, not what feelings she gives you. Now,

how is it so much better than everything else? I'll go out on a limb here and say you're idolizing her. And now

I'll go back inside cause people is looking at me and pointing.

Yoel

[DeMoKiLL]

Ok, this will be the last

thread ill make before I actually do it which should I do? Should I say I don't know what she is talking about and

act aloof or should I say she was treating me like dirt so I didn't want any of that? I know how to keep her and

how to do everything afterwards but what should I say in response to her saying im angry with her?

[Yoel]

Ok, this will be

the last thread ill make before I actually do it which should I do? Should I say I don't know what she is talking

about and act aloof or should I say she was treating me like dirt so I didn't want any of that? I know how to keep

her and how to do everything afterwards but what should I say in response to her saying im angry with her?

Ok, I'll keep it short and to the point:
Don't go for the dirt comment, cause you'll sound like a little

bitchy baby.
I'm sorry, but i can't really suggest you what words to use, since I'm not sure I understood what

was your reaction...was it like, she came and tried to talk to you and you looked elsewhere and said 'is that a

mosquito buzz I'm hearing'? Cause that sounds almost surreal to me.

Yoel

PS: how old were you two

again anyways?

[DeMoKiLL]

Ok, I'll keep it

short and to the point:
Don't go for the dirt comment, cause you'll sound like a little bitchy baby.
I'm

sorry, but i can't really suggest you what words to use, since I'm not sure I understood what was your

reaction...was it like, she came and tried to talk to you and you looked elsewhere and said 'is that a mosquito

buzz I'm hearing'? Cause that sounds almost surreal to me.

Yoel

PS: how old were you two again

anyways? hahahahah, Ok, I am in marching band and I sat in the bleachers for a competition (which we made

1st place in) and I was like laughing and just joking around, there was a girl that was like a couple steps up like

saying "we love you" I was having a great old time just laughing talking with my friend next to me, and she was like

a few seats away from me and she like saw me having like a great time, and I wasn't paying any attention to her

(but why should I?). And then on the bus home she kept trying to say hi to me, and I just looked at her and went

back to what I was doing. Then in class I think she wanted to get my attention so she just started talking to me

even though she was at the other side of the room and is like are you mad at me. Then the next day she asks the guy

etc. I didn't really make it seem like I was doing it to be mean or anything like by saying 'is that a mosquito

buzz I'm hearing?'.

[Indigo]

Tell her the truth!

If

you felt like getting treated like dirt than tell her!
Pretending not to know what she is talking about ...:nono:


She is not stupid and know that you are lying.
I don't think that will do any good !

[Pancho1188]

Well, I'd say

that happened for two (2) reasons. Let me explain:
reason number 1) you laughed...who ever laughs at his own jokes?

come on :)
and reason number 2) when you have to "explain" a joke it gets boring altogether, you should have

replied something on he lines of 'Oh, I get it: you're in denial now" and then turn away leaving her wondering

:D

Yoel

PS: I forgot the most important note: in my suggestion he says "but you can't have me" before she

actually has a chance to understand what's going on, while you gave her plenty of time (explaining it too), like

you were expecting some sort of response. While in my example (yeah, I know, I should buy a thesaurus) he just

assumes it, which is funny if delivered well.
By laughing I don't mean I broke into a fit...I just showed

that I was joking. People who make jokes with serious expressions confuse the listener.

[Yoel]

Indigo,
I get your "tell the

truth" ideal, but sometimes it's not necessary. By that I mean, it would be unnecessarily harsh and would cause

really unpleasant moments in the future. Besides, we are not trying to make him lie, just not open his mind

entirely.

Back to the topic:
looks like it's not a big deal after all, you were exaggerating it a bit,

good for you. So it was only a day, just tell her you were not in the mood of socializing and then play aloof.



Yoel

PS@Pancho: ok man, I figured that, it was an half-tease :D
The important part is in the PS, just

like here! The coincidences in life uh? :)

[Pancho1188]

A simple "Yes" or "No" would

suffice.

-Are you mad at me?
--No.

There, that works. ;)

[DeMoKiLL]

:-D and just to make her want

me more I sort of put my pencil through this girls hair just playing around, the girl didn't notice but I knew the

girl I like would. And I also hang out with a lot of girls as mostly "friends".

[Yoel]

A simple "Yes" or

"No" would suffice.

-Are you mad at me?
--No.

There, that works. ;) Yep. I meant that too.

Just tell her my excuse if she demands it.

Yoel

[DeMoKiLL]

A simple

"Yes" or "No" would suffice.

-Are you mad at me?
--No.

There, that works. ;) Your a genius

pancho! :LOL:

[Yoel]

No, it works for real. It tells all

the right things. Like she's overanalyzing and you just are living normally. Oh, and say it looking like 'why are

you asking me that'.

Yoel

PS: I'm leaving now. I hope you survive to report :D

[SweetBrenda]

The more insecure a person

feels about where he/she stands with you the more vulnerable they will be to your romantic advances and the more

intensely they will desire you..

[DeMoKiLL]

The more

insecure a person feels about where he/she stands with you the more vulnerable they will be to your romantic

advances and the more intensely they will desire you..'
And saying no will make her confused as to if I

really like her or not and will probably trigger that

[SweetBrenda]

'
And

saying no will make her confused as to if I really like her or not and will probably trigger

that*Grin*
Well my friend,,you gotta do what you gotta do,,right?
Good Luck! really.
SB

[DeMoKiLL]

k, she passed me in the hallway

I made eye contact then turned away and looked again as she said hi. Then in class she was like why are you mad at

me? I said, im not. Then she is like why are you ignoring me, I said I wasn't and she was like im sorry if im not

as funny as the other people you talk to instead of me(something like that) and she walked away. Then didn't talk

to her again the whole period. I'll do the aloof thing for a while and she will probably become attracted to me,

because I feel like she is a little right now, not a lot but a little.

oh and btw- I was talking to my friend

about the girl how I started ignoring her and how she is just a pain in the ass. And my friend is like I agree and

the girl is like "You guys are assholes" not in meanful way like with the omfg you didn't just say that way. Then

she like started talking to me and like messed with her hair. David DeAngelo is so right, act like an asshole (to an

extent) and girls will be attracted to you, or act like a wussy be nice, then find you boring and leave you for

someone else.

[Indigo]

k, she passed me

in the hallway I made eye contact then turned away and looked again as she said hi. Then in class she was like why

are you mad at me? I said, im not. Then she is like why are you ignoring me, I said I wasn't and she was like im

sorry if im not as funny as the other people you talk to instead of me (something like that) and she walked away.

Then didn't talk to her again the whole period. OmG, have a look: She cares and she feels bad seeing your

bahaviour ! That is obvious!
If you continue that stupid tactics a few days more you will get the opposite of what

you intended:
you will loose her, as a friend and as a potential partner! For the case she starts having feeling

for you because of your ignorance:
Could you respect a woman ( respectively your relationship with her ), who only

felt appealed by you behaving like a stupid asshole ????????????????

[TRock]

OmG, have a look:

She cares and she feels bad seeing your bahaviour ! That is obvious!
If you continue that stupid tactics a few days

more you will get the opposite of what you intended:
you will loose her, as a friend and as a potential partner!

For the case she starts having feeling for you because of your ignorance:
Could you respect a woman ( respectively

your relationship with her ), who only felt appealed by you behaving like a stupid asshole

????????????????hey if he loses her, it's her lost not his. he gives women the oppurtunity to show if they

have good taste or not.

these aren't tactics. these actions reflect the new man that he is becoming. a real man

who acts on whatever he feels.

[Indigo]

hey if he loses her,

it's her lost not his. he gives women the oppurtunity to show if they have good taste or not.

these aren't

tactics. these actions reflect the new man that he is becoming. a real man who acts on whatever he

feels.Regarding your fist statement, I absolutely agree! Regarding your second:

It is tactics. It would

not be tactics, if he would act naturally, if his ignorance would be because of feeling pissed of. Maybe be that was

the case at the beginning but actually he semms to do what he does because of auer advice, Archer Sloan and

whoever's texts he reads. That is tactics.

Sorry DeMoKill, it is inpolite to talk to others about

someone who is actually present. So I will talk to you:

As I said, if you feel bad because of her, don't

hesitate or feel afraid to show it! But don't behave bad just because you suppose it could be a good thing

to do. That would be the wrong reason.
You appreciate her character and personality ( concluding that from what you

said before ), so show her the respect she deserves ( in your own opinion ). What you actually do doesn't seem to

be very respectful. Does she deserve that ????? ( Not meant sarcastically, it's up to you to decide ).
If not,

than behave like you really fell in the situation beeing with her ( no matter if it is good or bad ). Be honest to

yourself! Show her the respect you would expect from her! How can you demand something from a person if even you are

not ready to give that ????
And if she lets you down than and nothing more will happen between you... then

and only then TRock is absolutely right: then it will be her lost and you can relax and look for another girl

!!!

[DeMoKiLL]

Regarding your

fist statement, I absolutely agree! Regarding your second:

It is tactics. It would not be tactics, if he

would act naturally, if his ignorance would be because of feeling pissed of. Maybe be that was the case at the

beginning but actually he semms to do what he does because of auer advice, Archer Sloan and whoever's texts he

reads. That is tactics.

Sorry DeMoKill, it is inpolite to talk to others about someone who is

actually present. So I will talk to you:

As I said, if you feel bad because of her, don't hesitate or feel

afraid to show it! But don't behave bad just because you suppose it could be a good thing to do. That would

be the wrong reason.
You appreciate her character and personality ( concluding that from what you said before ),

so show her the respect she deserves ( in your own opinion ). What you actually do doesn't seem to be very

respectful. Does she deserve that ????? ( Not meant sarcastically, it's up to you to decide ).
If not, than

behave like you really fell in the situation beeing with her ( no matter if it is good or bad ). Be honest to

yourself! Show her the respect you would expect from her! How can you demand something from a person if even you are

not ready to give that ????
And if she lets you down than and nothing more will happen between you... then

and only then TRock is absolutely right: then it will be her lost and you can relax and look for another girl

!!! Its all about HER showing ME the respect not about ME showing HER. And in relationships SOMETIMES its

good not to be very respectful. You have to remember, to make people like you, you have to remind them that it is

YOUR reality as david deangelo states and when they try to cross you over into theirs you have to give them a little

wake up call. Everything you are saying is the "logical" way to do things, and with relationships "logical" isn't

always the best. Here ill throw an example your way, if women like nice guys, then how come there are a lot of wife

abusers around, and how come girls break up with guys who cling onto them, being too nice? Sure, you don't want to

be a total asshole you just have to make yourself be the selective one, and not be the person being selected,

because if you make her feel like she has the power to dump you at any given moment, she eventually will. You have

to establish that you will be setting the rules and she may be the one who gets dumped. Just listen to some deangelo

stuff, then TRY it in real life. You will see that it works, and it will change the way you look at things, how some

things seem right but they really aren't.

[Gegogi]

"Its all about HER showing

ME the respect not about ME showing HER. You have to remember, to make people like you, you have to remind them that

it is YOUR reality..."
God, I hope she never reads this thread as she'll ran as fast and far as

possible. Respect, like trust, is something you earn over time. Sheesh, trying to "make people like you" is a waste

of time. If they don't like you for who you are, get over it and find someone that appreciates your unique

qualities and individuality. Your life will be simpler, less stressful and consequently more enjoyable.

[TRock]

God, I hope she

never reads this thread as she'll ran as fast and far as possible. Respect, like trust, is something you earn over

time. Sheesh, trying to "make people like you" is a waste of time. If they don't like you for who you are, get over

it and find someone that appreciates your unique qualities and individuality. Your life will be simpler, less

stressful and consequently more enjoyable.
i'm with Demo on this one. having a woman like you for who you

are is the worst advice a guy can get. throughout evolution women's brains have been form to like certain types of

men. they make decisions about the men they like through their primitive brain versus their conscious brain. the

primitive brain override the concious rational brain. learn to control the primitive brain and you will control her.

the primitive brain also overrides the rational brain. now you can be yourself if you're the type of guy that

stimulates her rational brain, if not than welcome to beta land and feed off the alpha's scraps.

remember the

saying "nice guys finish last". ever notice girls that say they're only attracted to assholes.

[Gegogi]

Of course, if we're merely

talking about scoring nookie or snagging a trophy girlfriend and not an intimate relationship, you're right.



Nevertheless, all the women in my life like me for who I am and I wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah, I'm a

sensitive artist, mellow metromale, breeding heart liberal and most women love me for it. Anyone that thinks they

can foster a relationship based on deception and insincerely hasn't a clue about intimacy between a man and woman.

Sadly, they will never experience true intimacy and the joys herein.

[TRock]

there is no deception and

insincerity, you can't deceive and be insincere when that becomes your personality. these ARE NOT tactics, it is

not a side of you. you learn to get ride of the old chump that was programmed to be a chump by society and you

become a new man, an alpha male. let me ask you a question, if you're not the type of guy women in general (not a

woman once in a blue moon) are naturally attracted to why continue to be that guy?

btw are you referring to a

50/50 relationship aka she has you by the balls but you think you guys share the power?

[Darkman84]

I have to go with TRock and

Demo here, guys. I know this very well, especially with African American women, that most don't want what is

considered the nice guy. At lleast this is what they say. They want a "bad boy", a "thug" so to speak, somewhat of a

jerk, relative to TRock's example of being an a**hole. This is the type of guy that stands out in most women's

eyes of these times.

Indigo, trust me, I hear where you are coming from. I used to be like that. I still am in

some ways, and I often have to check myself as to when I'm being "too nice and sensitive" to a girl I'm interested

in. It was the way I was raised, to be nice, respectful and caring to women. Once I already have the girl, it's

usually okay to treat her that way. (then again, you'd still want to show yourself more of an alpha male. Don't be

clingy and OVERLY sensitive and such. You won't have her too long if you do.) But when you're still trying to get

with her, the nice guy role won't work. As I said, especially for African American females, too much of the "nice

guy" persona will probably leave you never getting that get that girl that "lights up the room when you see her."

Matter of fact, don't say that to her. It's too nice. She'll say you're sweet an all, but she probably won't

look at you as anything more than a good, "nice guy" friend.

Don't mean to make you feel attacked or anything,

but after reading what you wrote and noticing the familiarity of it, I thought I should step in and help out,

because as I said, I used to think just like you and earlier in life, I might've have been your chief supporter in

this conversation. Times have changed. Women's desires have, as well. I know better nowadays.

[Gegogi]

I suppose you guys must live in

another world (or date really young girls), but most women I've known grew out of the bad boy alpha male attraction

after high school. They're ready to settle down and want a real man, not a pretender. Rather than a thug, jerk or

A-hole, they want a dentist with a sensitive and devoted heart.

I've had a serious relationship with two

attractive African American women. They were largely drawn to me because of my musicianship, soft spoken demeanor

and sensitivity. One was constantly overjoyed by my kindness and gentle touch (yeah, that sounds weird). Perhaps

getting beat every week by a thug boyfriend gets old fast. I haven't a macho bone in my body. In fact, women often

think I'm gay at first. But whatever, I have no shortage of intelligent and attractive women in my life.

[Watcher]

Fat ugly girls are atracted to

nice guys.

Youre young pancho - youre all emotional if it gets to much save up a few hundred bucks and if its

legal in youre area go pay for a root - once that is out of the way well you can worry about real women.

All

women are bitches at some point.

Attractive ones are fickel and highly selective - just like some guys (all

of us paying more attention to the good looking ones instead of the fat ugly thing no one touches)

Great

advice sweet brenda - women want you to not wait for them to thing sexually mostly they want someone to lead. Make

the move etc. Ask her out if she says no - you move on and use that old scatter approach i use when

single.

Of course you could always try for someone out of youre social group ie if white go for asians or

african americans - europeans etc.
And vise versa.

And when it comes to tactics its more natural tactics

or natural approach if youre natural aproach is wrong - then you gotta look at successful tactics and make them

automatic responses from within youreself ie if youre to nice you need to automatically be a bit more hard and

bastard (but not to much) just enough to show youre male testosrtrone stand up for youre self and not be bullied

into whimpish submission (not psychical either its mental appraoch and toughness)

Violence against women is

unacceptible in all cases. But mentally being able to stand up to them and not be pushed around when she gets

bitchy is a good sign.

[Indigo]

God, I hope she

never reads this thread as she'll ran as fast and far as possible. Respect, like trust, is something you earn over

time. Sheesh, trying to "make people like you" is a waste of time. If they don't like you for who you are, get over

it and find someone that appreciates your unique qualities and individuality. Your life will be simpler, less

stressful and consequently more enjoyable.
:box: :box: Thanks Gegodi, thank. I thought, I am the only

person seeing things like that !!!!! :thumbsup:





Don't mean to make you feel attacked

or anything, but after reading what you wrote and noticing the familiarity of it, I thought I should step in and

help out, because as I said, I used to think just like you and earlier in life, I might've have been your chief

supporter in this conversation. Times have changed. Women's desires have, as well. I know better

nowadays.Hello Darkman,

I don't feel offended at all. I appreciate your opinion and advice! That's

mainly because I already knew that you are right. I know that nearly every woman on this planet is like you and

TRock say.
I don't contradict your vision of the facts. But to quote deAngelo: It is always ones own reality.
I

have met so many different people living in totally different worlds ( not better or worse, just different ), and I

believe the worls around you is just as bad ( or as good ) as you accept it be.
Everybody has to create his own

reality (like DAngelo recommends to do ). I just do it in a different way. I am not a nice guy because I have

learned to do so. I am who I am, I am working on it trying not to betray myself and what I believe in. If a woman

treats me bad, I tell her and show her.
I'm sure getting woman is much easier doing what Trock, you and most

others here say, but beeing honest to myself: I could't have much respect for a woman who feels appealed when

someone is bad and respectless towards her ( especially when it is no natural respectelessness because of oneself

but only caused by tactics ). It might be ok to have a relationship in which I feel superior and fell to be the

alpha male, but in the long run I couldn't respect her and would no longer be able to look into the mirror, I would

have to say to myself: "I am together with a woman, and I know I don't respect her, but I am still together with

her! Is that ok and fair ( even if she doesn't recognize) ?????"
I never want to be treated like that. If a

woman doesn't respect me, and I am too dumb to see it,
she should be mature enough to leave me ( just out of a

little remaining respect ). I would do the same thing!

I know you are right Darkman ( generally speaking ). I

know there are hardly any women beeing more natural ans less manipulable, but they exist ( Gegodi meets them at

times). I never met too many of them, but in my close circle of friends there are relationships of that kind

I am looking for, which got started in different ways than usual. So unfortunaltely I know that what I belive in

exists, and it would be gutless to give up and simply change what I believe in ( and who I am )! I do that every

day, developing myself, doubting and questioning my positions, but I can't and don't want to give up
what is

unfortunaly very deep in me ( and for which I get alot of respect and esteem from my close friends ). They see the

worth of my values and if a woman does not see it... then I don't want her and it is her loss !

Just out of

curiosity: Where do you expect me to come from ???? ;)

[Pancho1188]

Youre young

pancho - youre all emotional if it gets to much save up a few hundred bucks and if its legal in youre area go pay

for a root - once that is out of the way well you can worry about real women.
Uhhh...okay...


Anyway,

the problem with people is that everyone uses the terms "nice guy" and "asshole" without understanding what it

actually entails. "Nice guys" are tools. Read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and find out what I'm talking about.

You'll find out that nice guys aren't so nice. They are unconfident, manipulative,

do-anything-to-please-others-so-others-will-please-them-when-they-should-just-do-things-for-themselves toolbags. As

for "assholes", people mistake being mean for being confident and your own person and not worried about stuff like

rejection or whatever. You don't have to insult a girl to make her respect you...you just have to show you've got

confidence. Women are more likely to go out with an "asshole" than a "nice guy" because "assholes" show the most

confidence (although that confidence grows into complete ignorance of other people's feelings and there's where

you cross the line from a "catch" into an "asshole"). Yes, girls are attracted to and go out with "assholes"...but

how many happy, satisfied women in meaningful relationships for 50 years call their partners "assholes"? How many

women who actually talk positively about their bfs cal them "assholes"? What type of women would go out with an

"asshole" (those with self-confidence/self-esteem issues)?

Maybe "it takes one to know one" and those women

don't want to go out with guys with the same problems they know they are facing. As for joking about a girl's

looks or whatever, that could be manipulative because the reason they like "assholes" is because they have low

self-esteem (and may or may not know they are attractive), so when you question what everyone else takes as a given,

they will do anything to please you and make you change your mind just like the "nice guy" would do anything to

please women.

I recommend reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" to understand what it truly means to be a "nice guy",

an "asshole", or a "catch" ("catch" is my own term as I'm not sure if there's a better term for it).

[bjf]

I think we need to give women a

lobotomy on their limbic brain, and that will solve everything.

[Yoel]

Pancho,

It's ok to be nice if

you really feel that way, you won't come off as a wussy. Just keep it down ;)

It's hard to mark the line

between a "catch" and a jerk, the answer is field test, I'm still working on it too. You can't really say anything

that crosses your mind :D

Yoel

[Pancho1188]

Pancho,

It's

ok to be nice if you really feel that way, you won't come off as a wussy. Just keep it down ;)

It's hard to

mark the line between a "catch" and a jerk, the answer is field test, I'm still working on it too. You can't

really say anything that crosses your mind :D

Yoel
I didn't say you couldn't be nice, I said that

"nice guys" are not so nice. I will replace "being nice" with being a good person. You should be a good person.

That's what the difference is between a "catch" and an "asshole". "Assholes" bring others down to make themselves

look good. "Catches" are confident in themselves and don't need to bring others down to show that they are worthy.

"Nice guys" do anything to please trying to get the approval they can't get from themselves.

Again, you have

to read the book to know where I'm coming from or else you won't understand as well because you won't be using

the same definition for the terms I'm using. Unless I make perfect sense, which if you ask bjf is a long shot.

:rofl:

[bjf]

haha, Pancho, I've understood

everything you've said (and have always felt the same way, myself). Although I do admit, I skipped a few

sentences.

[Darkman84]

I suppose you

guys must live in another world (or date really young girls), but most women I've known grew out of the bad boy

alpha male attraction after high school. They're ready to settle down and want a real man, not a pretender. Rather

than a thug, jerk or A-hole, they want a dentist with a sensitive and devoted heart.

I've had a serious

relationship with two attractive African American women. They were largely drawn to me because of my musicianship,

soft spoken demeanor and sensitivity. One was constantly overjoyed by my kindness and gentle touch (yeah, that

sounds weird). Perhaps getting beat every week by a thug boyfriend gets old fast. I haven't a macho bone in my

body. In fact, women often think I'm gay at first. But whatever, I have no shortage of intelligent and attractive

women in my life.
Understandable, actually. The age factor might be the key. I'm 20, so I'm talking

about girls OUT of high school, mostly college chicks. I tend to agree that when women get older, they don't think

that way anymore. I mean like 35 and over.

Think you're gay at first? Dang, you don't feel insulted? I

would.

[Darkman84]

:box: :box:

Thanks Gegodi, thank. I thought, I am the only person seeing things like that !!!!! :thumbsup:


Hello

Darkman,

I don't feel offended at all. I appreciate your opinion and advice! That's mainly because I already

knew that you are right. I know that nearly every woman on this planet is like you and TRock say.
I don't

contradict your vision of the facts. But to quote deAngelo: It is always ones own reality.
I have met so many

different people living in totally different worlds ( not better or worse, just different ), and I believe the worls

around you is just as bad ( or as good ) as you accept it be.
Everybody has to create his own reality (like DAngelo

recommends to do ). I just do it in a different way. I am not a nice guy because I have learned to do so. I am who I

am, I am working on it trying not to betray myself and what I believe in. If a woman treats me bad, I tell her and

show her.
I'm sure getting woman is much easier doing what Trock, you and most others here say, but beeing honest

to myself: I could't have much respect for a woman who feels appealed when someone is bad and respectless towards

her ( especially when it is no natural respectelessness because of oneself but only caused by tactics ). It might be

ok to have a relationship in which I feel superior and fell to be the alpha male, but in the long run I couldn't

respect her and would no longer be able to look into the mirror, I would have to say to myself: "I am together with

a woman, and I know I don't respect her, but I am still together with her! Is that ok and fair ( even if she

doesn't recognize) ?????"
I never want to be treated like that. If a woman doesn't respect me, and I am

too dumb to see it,
she should be mature enough to leave me ( just out of a little remaining respect ). I would do

the same thing!

I know you are right Darkman ( generally speaking ). I know there are hardly any women beeing

more natural ans less manipulable, but they exist ( Gegodi meets them at times). I never met too many of them, but

in my close circle of friends there are relationships of that kind I am looking for, which got started in

different ways than usual. So unfortunaltely I know that what I belive in exists, and it would be gutless to give up

and simply change what I believe in ( and who I am )! I do that every day, developing myself, doubting and

questioning my positions, but I can't and don't want to give up
what is unfortunaly very deep in me ( and for

which I get alot of respect and esteem from my close friends ). They see the worth of my values and if a woman does

not see it... then I don't want her and it is her loss !

Just out of curiosity: Where do you expect me to come

from ???? ;)I hear you, although, I think when trying the alpha male thing, you don't have to be TOTALLY

disrespectful, just enough to make yourself seem like the bad guy, so to speak. But I understand. I, too, am a nice

guy by nature. I never had to practice being nice. That's how I am. I DID however had to practice being the alpha

male because it was NOT my nature.

I also have friends that respect me for being the nice guy, but those are

friends. For the girls I am interested in, it seems that it doesn't work. But again, I think we understand each

other. :thumbsup: You sound like me in a lot of ways.

[Darkman84]

I didn't

say you couldn't be nice, I said that "nice guys" are not so nice. I will replace "being nice" with being a good

person. You should be a good person. That's what the difference is between a "catch" and an "asshole". "Assholes"

bring others down to make themselves look good. "Catches" are confident in themselves and don't need to bring

others down to show that they are worthy. "Nice guys" do anything to please trying to get the approval they can't

get from themselves.

Again, you have to read the book to know where I'm coming from or else you won't

understand as well because you won't be using the same definition for the terms I'm using. Unless I make perfect

sense, which if you ask bjf is a long shot. :rofl:
I understand perfectly what you're saying and I hope I

didn't confuse you by using those specific terms. That's really what I mean, but more in an alpha male sense. Not

to be a mean jerk but, to sort of be cocky and confident, like the alpha male. I think we are saying the same thing.

No confusion here.:goodpost:

[Indigo]

I hear you,

although, I think when trying the alpha male thing, you don't have to be TOTALLY disrespectful, just enough to make

yourself seem like the bad guy, so to speak. But I understand. I, too, am a nice guy by nature. I never had to

practice being nice. That's how I am. I DID however had to practice being the alpha male because it was NOT my

nature.


I can absolutely live with that kind of attitude and I hope for you that you will find

someone for whom you
don't have to "...seem like the bad guy" !

Sounds quite mature for a 20 year old boy :D

!!!

[Darkman84]

I can absolutely

live with that kind of attitude and I hope for you that you will find someone for whom you
don't have to "...seem

like the bad guy" !

Sounds quite mature for a 20 year old boy :D !!!
I hope so, too and thanks.

[Pancho1188]

Although I do

admit, I skipped a few sentences.
If you know what I'm talking about, you don't need to read it at all!

;)

:thumbsup:

About the gay thing and being insulted...it depends how it's used. There's still the

stereotype that gay people are unbelievably attractive to women and have every quality they want in a man but can't

have...if that's the case, take it as a compliment! If it's because you're unbelievably feminine or

sensitive...well, take it how you want to...if you like how you are, who cares?

People know the stereotypical

way gay men act with women and vice-versa...who wouldn't want that?

Then again, as Seinfeld says, everybody

gets along when there's no possibility of sex.

[Darkman84]

If you know

what I'm talking about, you don't need to read it at all! ;)

:thumbsup:

About the gay thing and being

insulted...it depends how it's used. There's still the stereotype that gay people are unbelievably attractive to

women and have every quality they want in a man but can't have...if that's the case, take it as a compliment! If

it's because you're unbelievably feminine or sensitive...well, take it how you want to...if you like how you are,

who cares?

People know the stereotypical way gay men act with women and vice-versa...who wouldn't want that?



Then again, as Seinfeld says, everybody gets along when there's no possibility of sex.
Ah, ok, I get it

now. In that sense, it would be a compliment.

[Gegogi]

Darkman writes. "Think

you're gay at first? Dang, you don't feel insulted? I would."
Actually it doesn't bother me at all as

I'm secure in my sexuality. Gay men rarely think I'm gay. Usually attractive women think I might be gay and it

often draws them to me. It certainly gets me laid more than most of my macho friends.

As far the cut off age

for women losing the alpha male attraction I think it's much lower than 35. By their mid-20s most women are looking

for a taste of the other side. My current girlfriend is 23, extremely attractive and likes me because I'm not a bad

boy. She had plenty of bad boys already and learned her lesson. I can be as sweet and nice to her as I want and she

returns it in kind.

[Pancho1188]

Actually it

doesn't bother me at all as I'm secure in my sexuality. Gay men rarely think I'm gay. Usually attractive women

think I might be gay and it often draws them to me. It certainly gets me laid more than most of my macho friends.



As far the cut off age for women losing the alpha male attraction I think it's much lower than 35. By their

mid-20s most women are looking for a taste of the other side. My current girlfriend is 23, extremely attractive and

likes me because I'm not a bad boy. She had plenty of bad boys already and learned her lesson. I can be as sweet

and nice to her as I want and she returns it in kind.
-Hi, Shmoopy!
--No, you're Shmoopy!
-No,

you're Shmoopy!
---Alright, you're both Shmoopy!


I would agree with Gegogi. I'm around all recent

graduates (mostly female), and I don't see one of them looking for or with a "bad boy"...you must lose it when you

enter the real world and you realize it's nasty enough without adding to it with bad relationships... :hammer:



I was half-joking...but when I think about it...it makes sense. When you don't have a lot of responsibility, you

want to go out with people who live dangerously or cause chaos or whatever...a nice guy will put you to sleep. When

you take on all kinds of responsibility, though, you want fun andsupport instead of rebellion and attitude.

Maturity definitely comes into play. I know my last relationship died on this principle because I graduated and

could move to the next level of commitment while my ex was still in college and wanted to live it up...

[TRock]

gegogi i don't think you realize

this but your personality is type one of the 4 personality types that attract women. you are an artist, which is one

of the personality type. the other 3 are badboy, adventurer, and seducer. then you have the 4 nice guys types:

successful guy, daddy, regular guy, ass kisser.

being mach does necessarily convey alpha, you're more likely to

convey insecurity by showing how much of an alpha you are.

the reason that older woman settle down with anybody

is that their biological time clock is ticking. they have to settle for less or have no kids. these are also the

women that will cheat on you during the marriage. good example is princess diana and her 2 sons william and harry.

william is exactly like prince charles while harry is exactly like diana's friend. and guess what type of guy

diana's friend was....adventurer while you can include charles into the successful category. i also know guys in

the pick up community that specialize in having sex with married women. it's very common if the husband was a guy

the wife had to settle for.

[Snoopy]

-Hi,

Shmoopy!
--No, you're Shmoopy!
-No, you're Shmoopy!
---Alright, you're both Shmoopy!


No! I'm Shmoopy!!! :LOL:

[Watcher]

25 seems to be the switch over

point from looking for alpha to looking for what has been termed omega (not a whimpy beta (submissive but not

necessarily faminine either) but someone dependable, strong, mentally up to the challange of fatherhood, someone

with a decent job.

[Pancho1188]

the reason that

older woman settle down with anybody is that their biological time clock is ticking. they have to settle for less or

have no kids. these are also the women that will cheat on you during the marriage. good example is princess diana

and her 2 sons william and harry. william is exactly like prince charles while harry is exactly like diana's

friend. and guess what type of guy diana's friend was....adventurer while you can include charles into the

successful category. i also know guys in the pick up community that specialize in having sex with married women.

it's very common if the husband was a guy the wife had to settle for.I'm laughing at this post because

sensitive women would call you sexist (although I think you're just making an observation; I once jokingly said

we'd have to bring back polygamy if the female population lived longer than the male population and more men died

in wars or from stupidity...to which I got the intelligent responses of 106 boys are born for every 100 girls and

that women could live by themselves...which brings me back to my point) and "Prince Charles" and

"Successful"...:rofl: ...I'd go with "Lucky"...I think royalty is luck. (you could say that bad royalty get

overthrown, but they have no power in today's society, anyway, and now you just have to be in the direct line of

the royal family)

Anyway, women don't necessarily "settle" for someone. They could rough it by themselves. I'm

sorry...I don't think I would settle with someone I didn't love...there's adoption, artificial insemination, etc.

for children if that's the issue for women.

Women usually don't cheat because they want to get some ass with

some guy they wish they had, it's usually because things aren't going well at home (e.g. they don't feel

appreciated, they don't feel romance, they don't love the person they're with anymore (meaning they did at one

point...not because they settled), etc.). No rational human being would marry someone just to have kids unless they

had low self-esteem and didn't believe they would ever have anyone else. That represents emotional problems,

though...

You're right about there being guys who specialize in married women, and they are good at discovering

and fulfilling those unmet needs at home. The most common is the woman that doesn't feel appreciated, doesn't get

enough attention, or isn't listened to at home. Believe me, that guy will give her all of the appreciation and

attention she would ever need, and he will sleep with her if she is willing to go there.

[DeMoKiLL]

Ok, First of all I don't think

being called gay is a compliment, it is VERY un alpha-male like. Here is the break down of a relationship. One

person is the lesser and one person is the greater. When the female becomes the leader she uses the male as a tool,

being TOO nice makes it seem like you WANT them, instead of making THEM want you. When a male is the dominant person

in the relationship usually the relationship can last for a long time, because the female won't be able to let go,

and if the male is perfectly happy with how its going he won't break up. You can be nice, but don't like be TOO

nice, make sure she always is aware of your power. Remember always think to yourself "Im sexy, if she doesn't want

me ill find someone else" don't think "Uh oh, is she going to like me, what should I say oh here she comes quick

brain think think" then you stand there say nothing and lose out. Ok now back to my side of the story, I went to

class today again, and again after telling her I wasn't mad at her yesterday she asked me again today. Then to test

to see if I was still ignoring her she called my attention to ask what problem she was supposed to do with homework

(with all ready knowing what it was). Then she was like what problem do we do etc etc im like what? then she says

nevermind and goes back to work. And I think she also stares at me sometimes, but you know I can't look at her

while shes doing it or she will turn away so.. Another thing, My friend that I know has been with practically every

single girl there is. He's a nice guy but he "gets it", he has a lot of confidence and gets phone numbers everday.

I actually asked a girl today "So you went out with (name)" "Yea" "Were you attracted to him?" "Yes" "Did he act

like an asshole most of the time" "Yes" "Who dumped who?" "It was kind of mutual". So if you are a "nice guy" and

you find out that your not getting the women you want or not getting as many dates as you want, try it out, listen

to deangelo's stuff and then TRY IT in real life. For the people who can be a nice guy and still get the ladies,

more power to you, you probably have something else going for you that other people do not. Always be open minded

about these sorts of things, if being nice isn't working unleash the wild side:whip: and see how people react.

[Pancho1188]

Who cares whether you're

alpha or not if you're getting some? ;) Secondly, power is an illusion. If there is a "greater" and a "lesser",

then there is a problem. You only have the power people give you. If a woman walks out the door never to

return, what power do you have over her now? None. If you walk out the door on her never to return, what power

does she have over you now? None. Therefore, the only way to achieve balance is to work together. After all,

that's what a relationship is. Just because one is masculine and one is feminine doesn't mean one has power and

the other does not. They're just different kinds of power. Believe me...a woman who witholds sex just became

powerful. A man who just revoked the credit card in a relationship where only the man works or the man is richer

just became powerful. Notice how if one can be removed, so can the other. In addition, one person can just leave

the other. Again, it's a delicate balance of power...

If you believe that dominant power is the key, you will

either find a submissive girl with low self-esteem or be a very lonely man. You need to respect the power a woman

has while you exercise yours in a relationship. Go out for that beer with the guys, but don't forget her birthday.

Buy the 50-inch screen TV and be a couch potato during football games, but you've better sit and listen to her

talk about her day later. (you could switch this around and say that women could go to a really good Broadway show

or something, but they've better give their men good sex afterwords ;))

Balance is the key. The problem with

"nice guys" is they have none...and a jerk usually isn't willing to meet a woman half-way (after sex, anyway... ;))

to have a decent relationship.

[TRock]

this argument is starting to get

dumb. everybody can believe whatever they want, that's fine. for the dyd skeptics, you need to see c&f practiced by

somebody that knows what they're doing. you'll be amazed by what you see.

btw c&f is not equivalent to being

an asshole.

[bjf]

TRock, I think it works if it is

funny, and people maybe are losing sight of that, and thinking it does mean "be a sarcastic asshole."

Telling

jokes at her expense, showing you aren't afraid of the consequences, while also doing so in a manner where they

know it is a joke, is probably what that stuff is about, no?

That is why I kept asking whether the delivery

is supposed to be with smile (so they know it is a joke). DeAngelo says no, but he seems like a good comedian who

can do thngs with a straight face will delivering well enough so people realize it is a joke.

[Darkman84]

...Just

because one is masculine and one is feminine doesn't mean one has power and the other does not. They're just

different kinds of power. Believe me...a woman who witholds sex just became powerful. A man who just revoked the

credit card in a relationship where only the man works or the man is richer just became powerful. Notice how if one

can be removed, so can the other. In addition, one person can just leave the other. Again, it's a delicate balance

of power...
This is true. Absolutely agree with that. Good point.:goodpost:

[Darkman84]

btw c&f is not

equivalent to being an asshole.
True. That's basically what I meant by that. Being cocky and funny and

confident. Not mean and nasty to people.

[Gegogi]

"the reason that older

woman settle down with anybody is that their biological time clock is ticking. they have to settle for less or have

no kids. these are also the women that will cheat on you during the marriage."

I'm not sure what you

mean by "older" women. However, I don't think women in their mid-20s are "older" nor settling for anybody because

they've had it with badboys 'n dickheads and want a real man.

As for women that cheat, their reasons vary

considerably. Sure, some are unhappy, unsatified, angry, loney, etc. However, many women are completely happy with

their marriage but cheat anyway. Some are just super horny, get it every day at home and around town as much as

possible. Some women enjoy the excitment and risk of sneaking around. Monogamy isn't a universal value nor is it

hardwired into our brains. Some women--many women in my experience--have plenty of room in their heart and bed for

another man or two or three. I was happily married and cheated many times until I was finally caught one time too

many. Now I'm single. I'd be perfectly happy with 3 or 4 girlfriends (or wives) if I could get away with it. Again

it wasn't that I was unhappy with any one woman--I loved and cherished them all--I just liked getting more. Like

money, you can never have too much love. And, to me, nothing is more exciting than falling in

love.

Incidentally, I didn't realize that what's-his-name defines artists as one of the 4 classes of babe

magnets. Now I feel so used...

[TRock]

if that is what you believe, then

that is what you believe.

[Gegogi]

What is that remarked directed

to: why women cheat, 25 year old women are old in your estimation, or monogamy isn't a universal value nor

hardwired into brains? I've laid plenty of pipe among happily married women, women married to dickheads, nice guys

and pretty boys. Fire in their loins discern not if their lust object is funny, confident or cocky. They just like

getting off, variety and danger. Incidentally, many of these women don't want kids.

[DeMoKiLL]

If you get the "lets just be

friends" bit, don't try any funny stuff like I did, its not working and she wrote me a note today pretty pissed

off. ;-) Do not try this at home. Never ever, tell a girl you like her if you want to show it then show it in

physical contact or subtle things.

[bjf]

What "funny stuff" did you try, and

are you sure it wasn't just "being a dick"?

[Holmes]

The line is razor-thin betwixt

humor and dickery.

[Pancho1188]

If you get the

"lets just be friends" bit, don't try any funny stuff like I did, its not working and she wrote me a note today

pretty pissed off. ;-) Do not try this at home. Never ever, tell a girl you like her if you want to show it then

show it in physical contact or subtle things.
I'm going to hold back my "I told you so" comment

because---well, by saying that I essentially said, "I told you so"---I want to tell you that it doesn't work the

other way, either. Believe me, I know. I'm not sure if I wrote about it on the forum, but I got rejected without

even telling a girl I liked her or asking her out because of the way I acted around her. I tried subtletly (without

me even knowing it sometimes as I guess I was a little lonely at the time), I tried to have her be comfortable when

I entered her personal space or engaged in whatever type of physical contact, and I tried just seeing if something

would happen. I got rejected faster than you did and didn't even say a word.

A girl either likes you or

doesn't like you at any given time. If she likes you, you could do whatever you wanted and she would still like

you. You could say you liked her, you could get close and be subtle, you could do whatever you want. If she

doesn't like you, nothing is going to magically change that. The best thing you can do is let her know you're

interested and see if she feels the same way. If not, just be her friend (or not if that's your perogative) and

move on. If she changes her mind and becomes interested and you're not with someone else or whatever, then she'll

probably find a way to let you know because she'll know she missed her chance. If she doesn't change her

mind, you still have a friend and you also moved on.

Conventional wisdom says that to get a girl you grow some

balls, ask them out, and take it like a man if you get rejected. You may be rejected, but you'll definitely be

respected. Even DYD (I say this with limited knowledge) would have to agree with that...after all, life pays

whatever price you ask of it, right? If you don't ask, you'll never receive. If she's not interested, it's not

worth your time anymore. As for the "want what you can't have" belief, that only works when you move on and she

realized what she can't have anymore. Simply saying "you can't have me" (ignoring her, etc.) doesn't work.





The reason why you're talking about this is because saying you liked her made you vulnerable, you lost your

'power', and she 'crushed' you. You were looking for a way to get your 'power' back. At least...that's only

if you look at it like that. The problem is easily solved when you realize that there is no power struggle and that

you could just pick up and move on without losing anything but the 5 minutes you spent admitting your feelings.

When you take it like a man and move on, maybe she'll finally see what a good guy you are and change her mind.

It's no guarantee, but it's surely better than playing a few games and seeing what happens. At least you'll

still have your 'power'...which is the ability to control your own destiny and not let a girl control your every

waking thought or moment.


This posting has inspired me to do the same in my life. In fact, I would be a

hypocrite unless I took my own advice, right?---------------Wow, what a concept! As I finished that last sentence,

it actually happened...I sucked it up and stuck to my guns pretty well with the girl I'm currently having a

somewhat similar problem with. Not too shabby...who knew you could be a man and a decent human being at the same

time?

PR

[Snoopy]

Great post Pancho. I'm now

reviewing DYD for the 3rd time, the "power" thing brings up a good point. Nobody ever has "power", people just give

it to them.

[Gegogi]

Amen Pancho.

[TRock]

A girl either

likes you or doesn't like you at any given time. If she doesn't like you, nothing is going to magically change

that.

Simply saying "you can't have me" (ignoring her, etc.) doesn't work.

PRPancho i agree with

your whole post except those 2 points. if there's no attraction you can still create attraction. That's the whole

idea of cold approaching, it is not guaranteed tho b/c you'll still get shot down. you can display higher value

while cutting down her value with C&F or other seduction techniques if you do it right.

if you say it the right

way or acting like "you can't have me" will work if you know how to do it. that is if you get the opportunity to

run your game.


demo don't sweat the chick, move on and pull other girls. a hot babe is a hot babe is a hot

babe, they're everywhere. erase her from you memory and work on your next conquest. it's not the end result that

matters, it's that your technique is correct.

[DeMoKiLL]

Pancho i agree

with your whole post except those 2 points. if there's no attraction you can still create attraction. That's the

whole idea of cold approaching, it is not guaranteed tho b/c you'll still get shot down. you can display higher

value while cutting down her value with C&F or other seduction techniques if you do it right.

if you say it

the right way or acting like "you can't have me" will work if you know how to do it. that is if you get the

opportunity to run your game.


demo don't sweat the chick, move on and pull other girls. a hot babe is a

hot babe is a hot babe, they're everywhere. erase her from you memory and work on your next conquest. it's not the

end result that matters, it's that your technique is correct.
Well yea I would of moved on, but she's

practically everything i've ever wanted, and guess what, I can't have it! Isn't life just grand.

And, can

you explain what you mean by saying "you can't have me" the right way?

[Pherozen]

you can display higher

value while cutting down her value with C&F or other seduction techniques if you do it right.
Don't take

this offensively. These techniques are for people with no value. If you have value then it's displayed already,

you don't have to go out of your way to display it. If you want to be a man act like a man. Men don't cut down

other people's value to make their lowly value seem greater.

Demokill the reason you failed was because you

were so unnatural about it, techniques don't work, why because they are techniques. The way you made your posts

sound I imagine that you could see 10 miles away what "tricks" were up your sleeve. Like I'm going to get her to

fool herself into liking me. To make an odd analogy lets say a 200lbs 70 year old wrinkled old bag was into you

with no personality is into you, do you think that she could do anything in the world to nab you? Be Aloof? Make

fun of you? Uh no, I didn't think so. I'm not saying that you're a fat old lady but do you get my point? Imagine

someone told you this great technique for making PB & J sandwiches yet it didn't feel natural to you and your

sandwiches ended up looking like crap. Useless. You can tell girls that you like them and they'll still be eating

out of your palm if there's a natural connection. Stop trying to dupe your way into things and let things take

their course. And my last bit of advice, it's usually not good to decide that this is "THE ONE" unless you've

been dating for a while because your young lady "friend" here could potentially be a real pain in the ass in a

dating scenario. And realize that you only wanted her more because she didn't want you. Before you say oh so

that's how I can nab her. Imagine that someone that you didn't like was being aloof, do you like her now that

she's being aloof? Probably not. If there's a spark or something in the FIRST place (a spark, magic, maybe even

mones) then you're in and it's hard to mess it up from there.

LAST BIT OF ADVICE: Listen to Pancho and the

gay(?) guy.

[TRock]

send pre-emptive strikes like

david d says. make fun of her dress c&f style then say that's strike one, 2 more strikes and i'm leaving. the key

is you MUST leave if it comes down to strike three b/c if you bluff you've lost. you have to establish that you are

the prize to be able to make this stuff works. i recommend swinggcat's ebook which i use hand in hand with dyd. she

does something wrong, do C&F and say something "like why do i let u hang out with me", she'll say blah blah blah.

do a exagerrated yaww with hands covering mouth and tell her "try again". this is actual stuff that i do. or tell

her you saw her on tv last night, she'll ask where? you say "america's biggest loser". if she gets mad at anything

you say, never ever defend always attack. "somebody's bleeding today huh" or "wow, emotional aren't we?"

c&f

isn't a technique, it's a lifestyle. you have to act arrogant or atleast cocky to work. that's why it works for

me and i can usually turn them getting mad at me into about them being overly emotional and having to defend

themselves. if you act like a wussy and you use c&f, you'll look like a insecure guy.


edit: one more thing,

you need to know how to calibrate how much c&f is the limit for a certain girl. if you calibrate wrong you will

probably piss them off to the point of no return. i can't really tell you how to calibrate besides trial and error.

i always had a good calibration system b/c as i little kid i always new how much i can push it with somebody.

[TRock]

Don't take this

offensively. These techniques are for people with no value. If you have value then it's displayed already, you

don't have to go out of your way to display it. If you want to be a man act like a man. Men don't cut down other

people's value to make their lowly value seem greater.


nobody said do it maliciously because

that'll get you nowhere but if you don't believe these "techniques" don't work, then don't believe it.

[Pherozen]

Okay I'm funny and I'm somewhat

arrogant, but I'm not out there using "material" or trying to turn people into emotional defensive messes. Man, be

original. I think you're reeking of insecurity when you say David D says this, David D says this, David D says

this. It's cool that you like the guy, but he is not a god. I agree stop acting like insecure wusses. The fact

that you're always in "attack mode" causes me to seriously wonder if you are capable of holding a normal human

relationship. Attack mode is like what someone is on when they're hunting deer. I don't give a damn mode is what

works for me, not because I don't give a damn mode works, but because I don't give a damn, it's natural. Hate to

repeat the age old adage but "Be yourself". Not such a tool for these seduction people.

[TRock]

isn't somebody self rightgeous.

by the way how many 10's have you gamed lately. don't be so quick to hate, are you mad i'm exploiting a system

that you would jump on too given the chance.

[Pherozen]

nobody said do it

maliciously because that'll get you nowhere but if you don't believe these "techniques" don't work, then don't

believe it.
As techniques, these are useless. This behavior works but every type of behavior works when

it is natural. I'm just saying that you're promoting it as a magic bullet and imply that it's about having power

over people. Nothing you say matters when you're talking to girls it's everything else. You can tell a girl "I

have no penis, and would like to kiss your feet and I don't take showers, let's go have sex I'm horny and

haven't showered for a month" if said in just the right natural way that can get a girls heart racing. Of course

if your words were true probably not. People blab all day, the words aren't important, the body and eyes are the

window into your soul. It's not words, it's not techniques, it's how you present yourself, how relaxed you are,

how well groomed you are, and most importantly if there's that initial spark/magic.

[Pherozen]

isn't somebody self

rightgeous. by the way how many 10's have you gamed lately. don't be so quick to hate, are you mad i'm exploiting

a system that you would jump on too given the chance.
"Somebody's bleeding, huh?" Quit being so

defensive, you're becoming highly emotional and forfeiting all your power to me.

Give me a break. There is no

such thing as a 10, 10's are for unselective people. If everybody's a 10 then there damn well better be an 11.



I don't need to EXPLOIT a SYSTEM, I am the system and I work well and oh yes the benifits are...

NICE.

[TRock]

reading comprehesion buddy, i

guess you don't have it b/c if you read my post i told demo he needs to internalized c&f for it to work.

[Pherozen]

(YAWN) :wave:

"try again"

[TRock]

you did a great job using my

material. it really flatters me.

[Pherozen]

You're welcome. This little clash

of minds really racked up our points, looks like you're due for a discount coupon soon.

[Gegogi]

Children, please calm down before

you embarrass yourselves further.

[Pherozen]

Gegogi

We're just poking some

fun. I don't remember, were you gay or did people just think you were. If so how do mones seem to work on gay

hits? If you're not gay then, eh nevermind.

[Gegogi]

I wish I was gay (actually

AC/DC), I'd get laid twice as much! Alas, the only wang I like is my own. However, being a musician of slight build

and fashional dress 'n grooming, women suspect I'm gay and either want a challenge or are curious. Boy are they

suprised when I give 'em ma midnight surprise...

[Watcher]

AC?DC can sometimes have its

benefits especially when you give em that mightnight surprise.

[Snoopy]

What's AC/DC?

[oscar]

Gents,

My personal opinion is

that anyone who has the secret to getting what they want from women is probably too busy doing just that to be

offering advice to others. Unless of course they happen to be making a serious income selling dubious advice to

insecure adolescents who somehow think that telling a girl that you're not interested in her represents some kind

of victory. "Yeah! I really dissed her!" High-fives all around! And you go home with your hand!

If you're a

man, you represent yourself as who you are. You act on the very simple gut feelings that make a man a man. If

there's a woman that interests you, show her who you are. Who you REALLY are. NOT what some opportunistic script

peddler is trying to make you think that she's going to be attracted to.

If who you really are isn't good

enough for the girl that you want, find another one. It would be stupid, that's right, STUPID, to compromise your

integrity for the sake of a lifetime, or even one single night with a woman who isn't truly interested in the man

that you are, the man that you are unwilling to betray.

Have some self respect!

I was getting laid long

before using pheromones, and long before I started reading any of the various seduction schemes that seem to be

everywhere nowadays. The single best thing that I've gotten from any of these methods that is worth passing on to

any man who wishes to have success with women is something that shows up in various forms in many of the available

sources. I've seen it listed as the "three second rule", the "ten second rule" and so on, but the gist is "Do Not

Hesitate". Before you can think up some reason not to speak to a woman who has caught your eye, or before some other

guy with bigger balls than you moves in before you can get there, go and say "Hello" to the girl. If after you've

said hello, you are not man enough to make the girl interested in you, then you simply don't deserve her.

These

guys who are taking your money giving you this shitty advice are laughing all the way to the bank. And as cocky and

funny as you THINK you are, they are not laughing WITH you!

When you choose to pretend to be someone that you

aren't, you're conceding that who you are is inadequate.

If it makes you feel better, you can send me money

for this advice. If you don't like my advice, then all you have to do is tell me that you've had 35 years of

success getting laid with YOUR methods and I'll be happy to debate mine with you.

Oscar :)

[Pherozen]

VERY Nicely put OSCAR. Everything

that I wanted to say, but said in a much more mature fasion, to say the least. Bravo :goodpost:

[belgareth]

Excellent Oscar! I wish I could

have said it as well. Every bit of it's true too.:cheers:

[Pancho1188]

Pancho i agree

with your whole post except those 2 points. if there's no attraction you can still create attraction. That's the

whole idea of cold approaching, it is not guaranteed tho b/c you'll still get shot down. you can display higher

value while cutting down her value with C&F or other seduction techniques if you do it right.

if you say it the

right way or acting like "you can't have me" will work if you know how to do it. that is if you get the opportunity

to run your game.

Point taken. Notice that I said "at any given time". You are talking about creating

attraction over a period of time, which is possible. People change their minds frequently. I won't argue that.

The people who can pull off what you're talking about are good actors and can reproduce the aura of doing what I

said without actually moving on (or the girls are gullible). In my opinion, it's easier just to do the real thing

than to fake it. People who can't pull off the act just end up coming off as a jerk (ignoring, etc.) to the person

they like. If you can do it, though, more power to you.

I don't condone cutting down other people's value,

but I think what you're trying to say is show that you are of value because if she doesn't like you then you have

plenty of other things (people) you could be doing. That's not cutting down her value, that's just showing your

value. That's good advice because many women do like a man who is in demand...another point I cannot argue.

[phinmone]

well i would say the fact is,

when you do everything for a woman and do everything she tells you to do, you are not anymore in control.

consequently she get bored. she wants to turn you into a nice boy, her little toy doormat. if there is no tension in

the relationship, the attraction disappears because attraction is not a choice (!). why most women stay in these

boring relationships? it is the feeling of being secure and just to have somebody there who does everything for them

and to tell all about their nonexisting problems. as a result some cheat and / or turn into a friend. friend = NO

ATTRACTION = no sex, no passion.

@gegogi: you said "I have no shortage of intelligent and attractive women in

my life." yes, you can have attractive women in your life, as friends or maybe short term relationships. but after a

few years in a relationship, if you stay as a "nice boy" who does everything for her, they loose the feeling of

attraction. women unconsciously want to be lead by a man. when no leading takes place from man's side, the woman

takes control and turns the man into a nice (guy and a) DOORMAT.

but for men's SAKE, there are several ways

to get out of the WUSSY LAND. just search!

phinmone

[Holmes]

When you choose to

pretend to be someone that you aren't, you're conceding that who you are is inadequate.

True. But

how does one improve or build on his or her existing social abilities without even temporarily "pretending" to be

someone they aren't?

[bjf]

They stop thinking about women, and

start thinking about themselves.

Obviously, how many guys want to do that?

[got2bmocareful]

DeMOKill:

check this

out maybe it will

help:
http://www.sosuave.com/articles/goals.htm

hope its

not to late.

[belgareth]

well i would

say the fact is, when you do everything for a woman and do everything she tells you to do, you are not anymore in

control. consequently she get bored. she wants to turn you into a nice boy, her little toy doormat. if there is no

tension in the relationship, the attraction disappears because attraction is not a choice (!). why most women stay

in these boring relationships? it is the feeling of being secure and just to have somebody there who does everything

for them and to tell all about their nonexisting problems. as a result some cheat and / or turn into a friend.

friend = NO ATTRACTION = no sex, no passion.

@gegogi: you said "I have no shortage of intelligent and attractive

women in my life." yes, you can have attractive women in your life, as friends or maybe short term relationships.

but after a few years in a relationship, if you stay as a "nice boy" who does everything for her, they loose the

feeling of attraction. women unconsciously want to be lead by a man. when no leading takes place from man's side,

the woman takes control and turns the man into a nice (guy and a) DOORMAT.

but for men's SAKE, there are

several ways to get out of the WUSSY LAND. just search!

phinmone
I don't recall anybody saying

anything about doing everything for her. Where did you get that? Many of us believe in acting like gentlemen and

have great results with it. We don't have the need to play power games because we are sure of who and what we are.

We are perfectly capable of walking away from any woman. Women respect that. But that never includes behaving like a

jerk.

[Gegogi]

"well i would say the fact

is, when you do everything for a woman and do everything she tells you to do, you are not anymore in control.

consequently she get bored. she wants to turn you into a nice boy, her little toy doormat. if there is no tension in

the relationship, the attraction disappears because attraction is not a choice (!)."
Like

belgareth (member.php?u=122) said, I didn't imply or say I did

everything for a woman. I have my own life, a busy one in fact. Most of the time women come after me. However, I

don't treat them like a doormat but I still treat them with respect. I expect the same from them or I show them the

door.

[Pherozen]

True. But how does

one improve or build on his or her existing social abilities without even temporarily "pretending" to be someone

they aren't?
You can explore the world without pretending. People can respect others exploring new

things, but can smell a fraud a mile away. Value yourself and increase your value, no need to show it just get out

in the world and have new experiences. Women smell value, you don't have to hack theirs down and force them to see

it, they know.

[Pancho1188]

"It's the new Jan Brady!"

:)

I would say that you're just trying to improve on your own ability...not trying to be someone you're not.

Asking someone to dance when you're afraid of rejection isn't being someone you're not per se...acting like a

hardass when you're very laid back isn't going to help you...

[eric_pelletier_tw]

Questions..
1- how

do you make yourself look like you have a life if you have none.Also how can you date a 2nd woman if you can't get

the first one ... [phersurf?]

2- how do i get rid of that looser &/or gay tag ppl keep putting on me ? [btw is

it possible to have a gay "scent" phero wise when your not ?(nol/rhone ?)]

3- [unrelated to tread ] how comme i

can put like 1/2 - 2/3 a pack of TE Gel & i cant even put a drop of soe(gel/men/scented)?

[eric_pelletier_tw]

pke ? value? a whoman

dont see value in good men the see value in bastards & pricks & f*kers, all the cute girls i know at least ... god

knows why ...

im probably the nicest guy a girl can dream of:polite gentelmen nice cudlely affectionate ---->

trash can !!! #$% (!!!#@$%)#

ive met dozens of girls "dated" a few .the only one i found was

100miles away looked a every other guy around & was so childish i could barely stand it.& the worst is that i had to

quit her cose my wallet was too thin ...

so id say : she dosent give a dam about you ?treat her the same way ! &

get somone else for real (dont fake it)that gives a dam about you ...girls always get the uper hand anyway!

[Pherozen]

Whoa there you have some issues.

You sound like a real jack ass, no offense. First off we all have our preferences and value different things. To

me it sounds like you're only being a cuddly gentleman as you put it because you want something from the girl.

Wantingness (not really a word) and neediness is repulsive regardless of what sex you are. It's not about being

super nice or being a big jerkoff. Just be comfortable in your own shoes and people will take notice. Sounds to me

like you'd be giving off a pretty tense vibe in person. That's not usually fun. And from your comment about your

wallet being thin, I can see that you probably give off the impression, that well you're trying to impress (which

ironically is very unimpressive). I never spend money on girls and they don't mind. Any girl that's stuck on

your wallet probably isn't a good choice anyways. And Girls rarely have the upper hand (they just think they do),

Trust me these same girls with the upper hand usually have a more valuable guy (to them) and are probably thinking

the same thing (guys always have the upper hand) bla blah. Girls aren't treating you like sh*t. If they aren't

interested that's that, you're just taking it wrong.

[eric_pelletier_tw]

qwiky : i dont realy

spend money on girls (i dont have any !)
im not taking it wrong(i think) im just being so unlucky ... thats all

[when girls ditch you after 5min on a date i call that being a bitch... thats diffrent & has happend to me]
so far

my time,money & attention hasnt paid off ... like Dr D.A. put it im not rich, im not famous & im soso (as far as

cute goes) what was that last one again ?... cocky & funny ? [well i dont supose a computer guy is much of

that...]

[DeMoKiLL]

First rule of thumb: Never

spend too much money on a girl for the first 5 dates! Go to a place where you can chat, like dinner, park, not the

movies etc. And if a girl KNOWS she has the upper hand, then your done for and she won't find you attractive.

[Pherozen]

Forget the cocky and funny and

forget of thinking about this as some sort of investment (time, money, attention). And I'm going to have to

disagree with everything being about having the upper hand. I've left dates after 5 minutes and don't feel like a

bad person, if two people don't click, they don't click. Luck has nothing to do with getting women (Unless you

find that magic "THE ONE"), maybe you should make a lot of girls your friends, and build some social skills. But

remember when they are your friends don't try to convert them to your girlfriend, just be friends. And when you

feel comfortable go out with them (being around lots of girls makes it easy to get and meet other girls) and find

that "lucky" lady. Those girlfriends would help you out if you need. When I take a girl out, I try to avoid boring

chats and would go somewhere playful. Like a waterpark or something. Having the upper hand isn't necessary for

attraction, I almost wish I could be on the lower hand sometimes. Having less power seems to make everything more

fulfilling, Alas I haven't meant anybody worthy of this since middle school.

[Have_Courage]

##########

[top_dawwgs]

good points... but i wouldnt

agree with the go out with her friends idea. That just leads to more headaches than any guy needs. The whole,

jealous game may be fun for awhile. but the bitching about it gets old very fast. I dont think its worth it in the

long run. Find some other girl who makes u happy. But not one of her friends to date.

[Have_Courage]

##########

[Pherozen]

Wow that's last post is perfect

about Letting Go. Whoever wrote that poem or whatever nailed it.

[Have_Courage]

##########

[MOBLEYC57]

:box:
It is

hard to do, but it's the best thing you can do for yourself.
On this big'ol round ball we call Earth,

tis all about the choice(s) one makes. To translate that ... tis mind over matter. :rant: We often makes

things much harder than they are ... tis that brain thingy that's in fault, and needs to be tamed.:whip:

[j5fakt0r]

That poem is so true and I wish

I could follow it myself...

[Have_Courage]

##########