View Full Version : I Love My Perception
DanTHEman
10-10-2004, 02:10 PM
I'm sure many
here feel the same, but I love my Perception. Even more so than Chikara, though it's a close race. I love the
scent, I love the way it makes me feel and act. It brings me out of my shell and attracts others. What could be
better than that?
I am concerned though that since I love the cover scent it comes with and I have not yet used
it with any other regualr cologne as a cover scent, that I'll run out of the Perception scent spray since it is
smaller than the Perception pheromone spray. This leads me to two questions.
Is there any chance that future
orders of Perceptions will come with a larger cover scent atomizer?
Also, when it comes ot using other colognes
as cover along with the Perception Pheromone spray, what are the recommendations on how-to apply? I spent almost
two hours trying to find a post that would answer that question, but only found the one below which was a response
to using Perception with other pheromone products.
For best results apply the other
products first and allow to dry. Next, apply Perception to lock everything down. If the order of application is
other products THEN Perception it should retain all the benefits of extended release.
BobbyDoes the
above suggestion apply also to using other colognes instead of the Perception scent spray? Apply the cologne first,
let dry, then apply Perception Pheromone?
Ok, one last question. Any news on Perception Platinum-Release? When
is the projected release date? What changes or differences will it have? I'm looking forward to it though the
only improvements I could see possible is with the spray head (Current one sprays too much) and amount of cover
scent..
=Dan=
CptKipling
10-10-2004, 05:11 PM
Does the above
suggestion apply also to using other colognes instead of the Perception scent spray? Apply the cologne first, let
dry, then apply Perception Pheromone?
Yes :thumbsup:
dixiecandy
10-10-2004, 05:21 PM
Does that apply to the women's products as well????
CptKipling
10-10-2004, 05:29 PM
No, only Perception.
It's
because Perception's formula was specifically designed to be water based, and applying anything other than a water
based product (there currently aren't any others) will make that pointless. If you apply the pheros last it gives
whatever you applied first a chance to evaporate/be absorbed.
DanTHEman
10-10-2004, 05:48 PM
Thanks CptKipling..
:thumbsup: I'll do some experimenting w/Perception and other colognes to see what I can cook up..
About my
other questions, is there any update, etc?
Is there any chance that future orders of Perceptions
will come with a larger cover scent atomizer?
Ok, one last question. Any news on Perception Platinum-Release?
When is the projected release date? What changes or differences will it have? I'm looking forward to it though the
only improvements I could see possible is with the spray head (Current one sprays too much) and amount of cover
scent..
=Dan=
DanTHEman
10-11-2004, 02:38 PM
Above
unanswered questions are probably best answered ty Bobby/BDC Concepts. :type: I'm addicted to
Perception..:blink: Looking forward to the next release so I can order some more. :thumbsup:
jollysnowdevil
10-11-2004, 11:13 PM
dan i love perception as
well i was wondering how much u apply and where. i find 2 sprays works for me one spray to my wrists and one to my
neck. i havent tried applying one to my wrists and one to my chest yet kinda curious.
i have yet to try
one spray of perception. cover scent is great but my cover is just about gone. versace blue jeans & contradiction
work very well. would like to try with drakkar think it will b really good match but too broke to buy new colognes
right now.
canivaro
10-11-2004, 11:30 PM
snowdevil, id like to read
some of your hits with Perception. You seem to love it so im assuming you've had positve, noticable results wearing
it.
I'm disputing whether getting SoE or Perception. I have AE/m and from what I've read Perception has the
same p-mones but diff quantities. Not sure. I want girls to open up to me and I dunno if Perception tends to help in
this area.
DanTHEman
10-12-2004, 02:19 PM
dan i
love perception as well i was wondering how much u apply and where. i find 2 sprays works for me one spray to my
wrists and one to my neck. i havent tried applying one to my wrists and one to my chest yet kinda curious.
i
have yet to try one spray of perception. cover scent is great but my cover is just about gone. versace blue jeans &
contradiction work very well. would like to try with drakkar think it will b really good match but too broke to buy
new colognes right now.Hey JSD.. With Perception, I find one spray is usually enough for the entire day
(regular day such as work, one on one encounters, etc), unless I'm going to a night club or party.
I usually
do one full spray on the chest (or two short burst), then I rub my wrists on it and then rub them on the neck. Same
with the cover scent. For club or party (larger groups), I will do one full spray on the chest, then a short burst
on one wrist, with I rub against the other and then the neck.
DanTHEman
10-12-2004, 02:24 PM
snowdevil, id
like to read some of your hits with Perception. You seem to love it so im assuming you've had positve, noticable
results wearing it.
I'm disputing whether getting SoE or Perception. I have AE/m and from what I've read
Perception has the same p-mones but diff quantities. Not sure. I want girls to open up to me and I dunno if
Perception tends to help in this area.Canivaro, I think it's a matter of preference as I've read good
comments on SOE, but personally (and I have both Perception and SOE) I get better results with Perception. I feel
better myself when using it and others really do respond to it, no doubt about it. Sometimes a bit of a wild
response, but I'll take that any day! :)
Dan: You use it at work? Do you get
negative side affects? I'd be a little scared.
DanTHEman
10-12-2004, 03:10 PM
Scared? Well, not because of
"negative" responses, but because of responses "inappropriate" to the workplace.. :D Check out my post on this
from not long ago
http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11597.
n
Aside from that, I've noticed nothing to be concerned about. I have used it at work a couple of times with
similar results. At work, I usually go w/out pheromone products, but once in a while I will use Perception, just to
experiment and because I loooove the stuff, or my old Chikara (the weaker version) for the same reasons and for the
scent.
jollysnowdevil
10-12-2004, 05:00 PM
thanks dan,
canivaro- i also got SOE gels i picked up from the free samples not too long ago. tried for first ime today. i
definately like SOE also. i tried it today for the first time and am intrigued by it. it does attract attention as
far as i can see, but i need to test it more.
yes perception i love. not only does it last all day long,
i love the way it makes me feel. euphoric- extra chatty. the first few days i wore it i noticed an extreme
difference as opposed to no mones. spent most of the day smelling my wrists and smiling. was kinda like the just
lost your virginity feeling. i've been using two sprays after the first week i got it. i'm beginning to think 1
spray is more than plenty so 1 will go back to testing one spray as i never really gave 1 spray a field test. last
week wearing 2 sprays i did get an od reaction from a potential new client. i sat down with him and first thing he
said was " relax your making me nervous" followed by "what do you have to be so nervous about?" i was not uptight at
all but completely relaxed.
now the hits- while wearing 2 sprays on line in the supermarket one night i
noticed the lady behind me standing really close to me brushing against me. after i felt a hand touch my butt i
turned around and noticed she was sniffing the back of my neck. i smiled and she engaged me in conversation. she
asked what i was wearing so i told her i would tell her later to ensure that id see her again. she laughed and
invited me for dinner at her house. we exchanged phone numbers. my turn at the check out was cute girl working
there whom ive seen b4 never spoke to. i always thought she was young so i didnt bother. she started chatting me up
instantly. when people started getting angry cuz we were chatting too much holding up the line a guy 2 people behind
me told them to shut the fu*k up and demanded they show me some respect. i paid for my stuff on my way to my car i
noticed the check out girl wrote her # on my reciept.
not 10 minutes after leaving the store my phone
rang it was the milf from behind me. we made plans for me to have dinner with her at her place the next night. so i
go over and it turns out she had 20 year old daughter. we're all enjoying dinner the milf across from me and the
daughter sitting next to me. i swear this lady was trying to get me drunk. half way through dinner the phone rang
the mother left me alone with the daughter for a few minutes. while she was away the daughter started flirting with
me said "why would you be interested in my mom when you can be with me?" she pleaded her case and gave me her phone
number too!!!
next hit- i was at a good friend of mine's house whom ive known for a while now. out of
respect i always give his fathers g/f a kiss hello. i lean over to give her a kiss and she buries her nose into my
neck where the mones we're when i tried to pull up and away she was hanging on my neck and wouldnt let go. now
whenever i go over there i am afraid to b alone with the g/f cuz she flirts with me all the time now.
next hit- i was working in a banquet hall bartending a wedding. i was little bit late for the weding as i was
working a different party earlier. as soon as i jumped behind that bar men and women both asked me my name. b4 even
ordering a drink. that was rare enough indeed. the next comments they said was "mike's the man" i didnt even do
anything yet. some of the ladies who had their men on their arms told me "we are going to hang here all night long"
sure enough for 4 hour i had 5 women standing at the bar flirting with me constantly completely oblivious to their
surroundings. the whole night i had about 12 people just hanging at my bar like i was their best friend for years. i
got 2 brides maids #'s the bride flirted with me for a while and overall i got 7 phone numbers on the night. 2
numbers i didnt even ask for and they were given to me right in front of their dates. the guys didnt say a word just
smiled. i was shocked i thought i was going to take a pounding. finally the money i made from the wedding of 150
people totaled $475 compared to the measly 135 the other two bartenders pulled in combined at the other bars!!!
so ive had good results. i was wearing two sprays 1 large on my neck and one small on my wrists. i think the
bit on my wrists got washed off but the spray on my neck worked miracles
ive gotta run
tounge
10-12-2004, 09:39 PM
Wow!!!! You're quite the stud.
BTW, did you hear about the lowly janitor who got laid by the high powered female lawyer, wearing only two srays of
perception?
Red Stripe
10-12-2004, 09:52 PM
lmao...jollysnowdevil :box:
:cheers:
Panzerfahrer
10-12-2004, 10:41 PM
Hmm, I was looking at that
stuff in the product line, the time release sounds likea good idea, I may give it a shot myself...
Anyone know
the percentage concentrations of what is in it?
PzFh
jollysnowdevil
10-12-2004, 10:46 PM
LOL - tlounge yes i read
that one too. believe what you like all i know is ive gotten the results i claim. im good at what i do and i have
the natural charm and personality for it.
the mones i did not get me magic results. simply put i got
the results i desired. u can do anything u put your mind to. mones simply let me hold others attention when im not
really focusing on keeping their attention.
i am not one of those who use mones to help me get laid
becuz i cant talk to women or im too shy. if i was really concerned with having sex id just pop some viagra put a
long night of work into some woman and boom she wont leave u alone.
i use mones to give me more of an
edge in business matters. ive always been highly self confident but the way perception makes me feel is like im
unstopable. ensuring a successfull career is a much bigger priority for me. i've got most of my life left to find
the perfect woman.
well guys take it as u wish, i make no commission from boosting sales by telling
bullshit success stories. somebody asked me why i liked perception so much so an honest explanation he got. i've
had my fair share of failures with mones just like everybody else. its a never ending learning experience to get it
right. canivero asked for my successes not all the failures b4 i somewhat found an understanding for how perception
works with my body and personality.
I THINK MOST GUYS ESPECIALLY NEWBIES GET TOO CAUGHT UP IN TRYING TO
INFLUENCE OTHERS BY USING MONES. I FOCUS ON HOW THE MONES EFFECT MY INNER SELF BECAUSE IN THE END IT IS OUR OWN
ACTIONS THAT DICTATE OUR SUCCESSES OR FAILURES. IF YOU ARE NOT IN TOUCH WITH WHO YOU REALLY ARE HOW CAN U EXPECT
PEOPLE TO REALLY LIKE YOU WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE UNSURE OF WHO YOU ARE. MONES ARE A USEFULL TOOL TO HELP GET
ATTENTION BUT KEEPING THAT ATTENTION RELIES ON YOU. MONES ALLOW US TO HELP OURSELVES.
jollysnowdevil
10-12-2004, 10:47 PM
PANZER perception is
nol-2 none-1 rone-1
Panzerfahrer
10-12-2004, 10:52 PM
LOL -
I THINK MOST GUYS ESPECIALLY NEWBIES GET TOO CAUGHT UP IN TRYING TO INFLUENCE OTHERS BY USING MONES. I FOCUS ON HOW
THE MONES EFFECT MY INNER SELF BECAUSE IN THE END IT IS OUR OWN ACTIONS THAT DICTATE OUR SUCCESSES OR FAILURES. IF
YOU ARE NOT IN TOUCH WITH WHO YOU REALLY ARE HOW CAN U EXPECT PEOPLE TO REALLY LIKE YOU WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE UNSURE
OF WHO YOU ARE. MONES ARE A USEFULL TOOL TO HELP GET ATTENTION BUT KEEPING THAT ATTENTION RELIES ON YOU. MONES ALLOW
US TO HELP OURSELVES.A very good point, I have a GF, but I wouldnt mind finding something that makes her go
into orbit either. also if I can get some more friendly passes from others as well, then why not... :D
""perception is nol-2 none-1 rone-1"" This sounds like a pretty ballenced mix...
PzFh
jollysnowdevil
10-12-2004, 11:13 PM
A
very good point, I have a GF, but I wouldnt mind finding something that makes her go into orbit either. also if I
can get some more friendly passes from others as well, then why not... :D
""perception is nol-2 none-1 rone-1""
This sounds like a pretty ballenced mix...
PzFh
of course we all are looking for our love
potion #9 .. lol i hear AE is something like nol-1.5 none-2 rone-1 pretty close to perception. i hear some good
things about AE but have not tried it yet.
what really made me choose perception over AE was #1 the time release
which after trying really works well. #2 was the balance as i wanted something with the higher nol and lower none.
my first mone product ever was primal a few years back when i was young and looking for the miracle. it was a
complete failure. now years later after joining the forum i understand why so many people's behavior changed so
drastucally around me (negatively). it was way tooo much none. i suffered close to a year of torment and pain from
none OD only becuz i did not have enough of an understanding to say hey this stuff is not helping one bit. since
then im very none wary
ive found perception is good for hits somewhere between sexual and friendly. i tried
SOE today and it seems like it is very very friendly. i hear AE is more of a sexual hit type product and looking at
the slightly different makeup from perception i can see why.
best thing about perception is the time
release as u can put it on in the morningg and know hours later it is still with you. no worrying about reapplying
or risking OD by reapplying.
cuddlebear
10-13-2004, 04:55 PM
Does the
above suggestion apply also to using other colognes instead of the Perception scent spray? Apply the cologne first,
let dry, then apply Perception?
=Dan=
OK, decided to try this one out ... used a cologne that
usually doesn't last any meaningful amount of time on me (Ralph Lauren Polo Sport) but that I always liked the
smell of ... then after it dried, applied Perception ... sure enough, the scent lasted many times longer than it
normally would have ... Good news, since I had given up on using Polo, even though I have always liked it ...
DanTHEman
10-13-2004, 07:46 PM
Revival of an old favorite,
plus an awesome pheromone combination. It just doesn't get any better than that!
Thanks for trying it out and
posting your findings. I've not tried combining Perception with another cologne as a cover just yet as I was a bit
hessitant (Plus I'm taking a day or two break from Pheromones), but I'll be sure to try it out soon, probably this
weekend.
Panzerfahrer
10-13-2004, 07:57 PM
Hmmm I was thinking of
using perception with Davidoff's "Cool Water" does this sound like a good idea?
PzFh
cuddlebear
10-14-2004, 03:03 AM
Yes, that sounds good ... Cool
Water seems to be good even without mones, so yeah, that's probably a great combo ...
I ran out of AE but considering
Perception.
So whats the consensus on Perception, a must have or what?
DCW
DanTHEman
10-14-2004, 04:54 PM
In my opinion, it's a
definite must have!! I've not tried AE as of yet though, so I'm not sure how they compare. I do have NPA, SOE
and WAGG, but use Perception more often then those as I actually enjoy it myself. I tend to stick with Perception
and Chikara since they both seem to have a good, balanced 'blend' of pheromones, and both have a good scent.
If you haven't tried Perception yet, I say you should! Make sure once you try it to post your findings..
cuddlebear
10-14-2004, 05:01 PM
Tested Perception's ability
to give extended release properties to other colognes again, this time Giorgio Armani "He" ... Perception, when
applied AFTER an ordinary cologne (give it time to dry) most definitely DOES impart extended release properties to
the cologne's scent. So if you stopped using a cologne you liked because it went away too fast, PERCEPTION to
the rescue!
I can't recommend this too highly, since this was always a problem for me, the scent going
away too soon ... I used to try to remedy it by constantly applying more, that is not the answer, applying
PERCEPTION soon afterwards IS!! (Or that's what my experiments have shown me) I would use it for this purpose
even if there were NO mones in it, but the mones do their thing too .. read the other posts to get an idea of what
... I would only be repeating ...
I would really like to see other mone products utilize the water-based
property, so they would last longer, even though gel packs seem to also be pretty decent in this area. OK, enough
of my rave, but I'm happy with it :)
DanTHEman
10-14-2004, 05:24 PM
Perception, not only a
pheromone product, but works as a cover scent/cologne scent 'extender' too? Awesome!
CptKipling
10-15-2004, 08:12 AM
This basically confirms the
time release claim.
Nice work BDC!
DrSmellThis
10-15-2004, 02:50 PM
Yep. Good work BDC! That
suggests Perception over Chikara is one strategy, obviously.
cuddlebear
10-17-2004, 10:22 AM
Trying this today ... 3 sprays
(old) Chikara to upper chest .. allow to dry then one good spritz of Perception over the top. We will see :)
DanTHEman
10-17-2004, 11:05 AM
Trying this
today ... 3 sprays (old) Chikara to upper chest .. allow to dry then one good spritz of Perception over the top. We
will see :)Excellent.. I was going to try that today, but decided to wait intil Monday since Sundays are
usually not very social days for me. It's my day for R&R and minor house work, so no sense in using pheromones.
Let me know how it works out. I have a bottle fo the 'weak' Chikara batch (as well as the new bottle) and
wanted to try the 'weak' Chikara/Perception mix. :thumbsup:
Has anyone else tried it yet? At first I was
hessitant, but the more I think about it, the more I think "Why not? It could be a wonderful mix after-all". I'll
post my findings Monday night.
CptKipling
10-18-2004, 08:44 AM
Trying this
today ... 3 sprays (old) Chikara to upper chest .. allow to dry then one good spritz of Perception over the top. We
will see :)
bump for update :thumbsup:
DanTHEman
10-18-2004, 04:54 PM
Cuddlebear, any update? I
tried the Chicary/Perception (applied in that order) today, but not much to report. Today being Monday was a very
buisy day and didn't give me much time to socialize. Two Chikara sprays to the chest, one to the arms (spread
betweenthe two), one on each side of the neck (This is the weak chikara with the spall spurts/srays). I then
followed with One Perception spray to the Chest, one to one arm, spread to the other and then the neck.
My
co-workers kept coming into my cubicle though when I was trying to get work done, but they're all male.. No femail
hits at all. :blink: Grrrrrr
I will try again, maybe on Wednesday. My department is being relocated from
Florida to Georgia soon, so we've been quite busy and preocupied.
cuddlebear
10-19-2004, 04:32 PM
Sorry for the delay, but I had
to do this test twice due to the extreme lightness of old Chikara's scent ...
The second time was today ..
5-6 sprays old Chikara on chest and cover with one shot of Perception ...
The Perception once again worked
wonders with keeping the scent in the air, and I got compliments on my smell and my look both ... very nice ... but
there's one problem ... when you put THAT much old Chikara on you, there comes a point where the cover scent is
replaced by mostly mones and that many sprays of Chikara mones plus Perception mones is apparently too much ... This
trick should work WONDERS with new Chikara and a normal dose ... I'm sold on Perception completely as a
time-extender for any cologne you put on, mone-laced or not.
DanTHEman
10-20-2004, 03:14 PM
Well, I had tried the
Chikara/Perception combo on Monday with not much to report (see my posting above), and again today to give it
another chance. I'm not sure if others have run into the same results, but in my opinion, Chikara is probably best
as stand-alone, and Perception pheromone spray mixes VERY well with other non Phero colognes as cover scent, but not
necessarily with other pheromone products. Each one is wonderful on their own, but they don't seem to 'play well'
together. I really didn't much like the scent of Chikara mixed with Perception, and have tried it with SOE
unscented and NPA and it just smells sooo much better on it's own, same seems to go for Perception/SOE or
Perception/NPA even in very small dosages of SOE or NPA. So as far as Chikara goes, I might stick to my original
thought of 'why ruin a good thing by mixing'. :blink:
For more details: I had applied 3 Chikara sprays to the
chest, one to the arms (spread between the two), one to the neck (again, the old chikara with small spurts/sprays
and weak scent). After drying, I followed it with one spray of Perception to the Chest, and one to each arm which I
then spread to the other arm and neck. Reactions were either indifferent to minor, or bad. Again, co-workers were
chatty, but people that came into the area that I work in kept saying they smelled onions. Sure enough, I sniffed my
arms/wrists, and they did sort of smell like onions. I was freshly showered and have never had that smell before,
exept when mixing Chikara and SOE or NPA. I am guessing it might have been an OD between the Perception pheromone
content and Chikara's, etc.
So, I think cuddlebear was right in his posting above.
... but
there's one problem ... when you put THAT much old Chikara on you, there comes a point where the cover scent is
replaced by mostly mones and that many sprays of Chikara mones plus Perception mones is apparently too much ... This
trick should work WONDERS with new Chikara and a normal dose ... I'm sold on Perception completely as a
time-extender for any cologne you put on, mone-laced or not.Well, back out to do more testing. Maybe I'll
try the newer Chikara batch with Perception and limit the Chikara sprays to 2 or so and see what happens?:think:
Heck, why not.. One last try before leaving Chikara perfection alone. Not to say that Perception is any less
perfect, again in case I was not clear, as the thread tittle reads, I LOVE MY PERCEPTION. :thumbsup:
DanTHEman
10-24-2004, 07:00 AM
.....would like to try with drakkar think it will b really good match but too broke to buy
new colognes right now.
Good call! I tried it with my old Drakkar (I have a huge bottle that I've not
used in a loooong time) and they seem to go very well together, not to mention that it definitely did make Drakkar
scent last much longer. I never thought I'd say it, but this might make a Drakkar comeback for me.. :)
cuddlebear
10-24-2004, 08:15 AM
I also used Drakkar with
Perception and got the exact same result as in the above post. I had retired Drakkar long ago and now it's back
for the same reasons just stated. My experience with Drakkar and Perception is identical to Dan's. Perception
would be marketable as a cologne life extender even if it didn't have a mone in it. And I would buy it for that
purpose. I have tried this experiment with numerous colognes that I had left in my cabinet unused, and it's the
same each time. Perception makes it last MUCH longer and gets it out there instead of letting it sit on your skin.
It really livens up my work environment, but that's a different story ... :)
Any word on whether a water-based
non-mone matrix will be made available to forum members?
mikeydreslim
11-16-2004, 09:46 AM
perception+npa how do i
make this work
pheromack
11-16-2004, 10:53 AM
I was wondering although
perception has a polymer that keeps the scent lasting longer, doesnt the fact that it is water based allow it also
to evaporate faster, just a question
ManBeast
11-16-2004, 10:59 AM
Perception's polymer is
designed to bond both to ther pheromones AND to your skin which is what gives it the time-release effect. From my
own personal experience, even under HOT (90-100deg 80% humidity) conditions that make me sweat (more than usual,
heh), the scent I used under the perception mones, or the perception scent itself has lasted pretty much all day.
I'm guessing the `mones were there too because I would still be getting hits at the end of the day.
MB
Flash1
03-25-2005, 04:17 PM
Amazing Stories............
MOBLEYC57
03-25-2005, 04:36 PM
Haven't heard too much about it
lately. Anyone still a believer/follower of Perception? :think:
Lets make a deal! :thumbsup:
Haven't heard too
much about it lately. Anyone still a believer/follower of Perception? :think:
Lets make a deal!
:thumbsup:
I bought Perception along with some other products back when the Valentines Specials were
running (and also based on Oscar's suggestion I give it a try). So far I've been concentrating on SOE more as a
general testing of the water as I'm still a new user of 'mones.
I've tried Perception a few times but not
noticed any real results, yet. It's still cold here so we're all covered up and sniffley, and I really haven't
been in any "real" social situations for a while. As Spring moves in and we get above 40 deg F, and I start
hopefully socializing more, maybe I'll have some results!
I *think* I've had some positive SOE reactions in a
few of the limited social situations I've been in over the past month, but I consider them "non-dating" situations.
I'm hoping the Perception will boost the "dating" situations. (And I have some "all-day" trade shows coming up
I'll be attending where I can put that 12-hour duration to the test...).
So in summary... I for one will be
putting Perception to a more serious test (Gold version) in the next 3 months or so. And experimenting with using it
with and without it's own cover scent, even without *any* cover to see what happens too. Will try to report on my
experiences as I go along. For one thing I'm still experimenting with dosages. We shall see...
Flash1
03-26-2005, 01:37 PM
Go ahead and keep us unformed And
when I get mine I'll do teh same.
GreekLover
03-26-2005, 02:08 PM
I have used a whole
Perseption and is warm here but nothing not even hits like SOE
gives...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.