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a.k.a.
10-06-2004, 07:21 AM
Not only is

this a tragic story. The way in which the VA handled his case is

reprehensible:

http://counterpunch.org/clinton10052004.html

"As Jeff spiraled toward

self-destruction, he began to drink more and more. In early June, his desperate parents were able to arrange an

involuntary commitment to a local veterans' hospital, where Lucey complained that he was treated like "a

prisoner."

He was diagnosed as suffering from depression with secondary alcohol dependency--and was released

after four days because, the hospital said, he was not a danger to himself or others. On the ride home, he told his

parents that he had met with psychiatrists twice, both times briefly, and on the second occasion, the psychiatrist

had seem preoccupied with other matters.

In many respects, Jeff's fate followed a trajectory that is

becoming all too familiar. As Nancy Lessin of Military Families Speak Out told Amy Goodman, "We have heard so much

about what this military has learned in Vietnam [about Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder], and how they're doing it

differently now. And we don't see that at all. We see the same mistakes happening--mistakes that are, in fact, not

mistakes at all. It's really a way of denying this issue so they can keep as many warm bodies deployed and

re-deployed."

After Jeff's death, his parents learned from the medical records kept during his involuntary

confinement that he had told nurses of three different plans to kill himself--a drug overdose, suffocation or

hanging. On June 22, he chose the last of these three methods, hanging himself with a hose in the basement of his

parents' home."

DrSmellThis
10-06-2004, 01:35 PM
Yep, it was a tragedy. There

is no way that the hospital should have released him if he was still saying he was intending to kill himself; or

even if he wasn't saying it any more but had no detailed safety plan with the cooperation of his family. It

doesn't sound like he got much treatment there, although time with the psychiatrist is not necessarily a good

measure of that, since they are pretty much associated with meds rather than counseling these days. It also sounds

like his PTSD was misdiagnosed, which is absolutely stunning for a VA hospital. Still, know that the real mental

health treatment story could be very different, since the article was vague and spotty on it.

The other issue is

his forced participation in "immoral activities" in the war. I'm sure he felt his heart and soul were already dead.

How horrific. I hope there is a thorough investigation. The cliche "war is hell" is no exaggeration. Meticulous,

deep and comprehensive ethics are extremely important in military leadership, (Yes, we need to fight "sensitive"

wars!) since ethical flaws get magnified down the ranks with devastating consequences.

koolking1
10-06-2004, 01:57 PM
I won't argue if the war

is right or wrong in this context. I will say though since we are in this war we should have made much much better

plans. This kind of war should only be fought with Active Duty Regulars with some Reserve back-up where needed, but

only if needed. Pros only!!! Look at the prison screw-up, were those not Guard and Reservists? The National Guard

should only be called up for war duty as a second to last resort, last resort being every able-bodied man and woman

in the country. Somehow I think the Guard is there cause the C-In-C has a grudge. Not sound policy at all.

belgareth
10-06-2004, 02:14 PM
I Somehow I

think the Guard is there cause the C-In-C has a grudge. Not sound policy at all.
Very likely true. SO,

who's the grudge against? The guard or the Iraqi people or both?

Mtnjim
10-06-2004, 02:20 PM
Very likely true.

SO, who's the grudge against? The guard or the Iraqi people or both?

Don't know why he would have a

grudge against the Guard. Kept his a$$ out of harms way!! Back when he was in, the National Guard was legal draft

dodging for the sons of rich white men!

belgareth
10-06-2004, 02:26 PM
Don't know why

he would have a grudge against the Guard. Kept his a$$ out of harms way!! Back when he was in, the National Guard

was legal draft dodging for the sons of rich white men!
That would imply that he is rational.

koolking1
10-06-2004, 02:28 PM
let's just say that while

in the Guard our current "leader" had a squadron commander and peers. Do you think they were happy with Mr. Bush?

I sure don't. You can figure out the conjecture. Mr. Bush does seem like a black/white kinda guy. "You are

either with us (me), or against us"

DrSmellThis
10-06-2004, 02:38 PM
Interesting observations about

the guard. Bush is not psychologically simple, but there could be some kind of dynamic there.

Mtnjim
10-06-2004, 05:01 PM
That would imply

that he is rational.

Ya' there is that!!

a.k.a.
11-11-2004, 10:50 AM
"Among veterans from Iraq seeking

help from the VA, 5,375 have been diagnosed with a mental problem, making it the third-leading diagnosis after bone

problems and digestive problems. Among the mental problems were 800 soldiers who became psychotic.

A military

study published in the New England Journal of Medicine in July showed that 16 percent of soldiers returning from

Iraq might suffer major depression, generalized anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder. Around 11 percent of

soldiers returning from Afghanistan may have the same problems, according to that study.

"

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000630846

DAdams91982
11-12-2004, 06:27 AM
I love these threads...

everything ALWAYS goes back to Bush... The gaurd is over here.. cause they too are part of our military... as are

reserves..... they allow some rotation of Active Duty... If they didnt want to go to war.. they shouldnt have

fucking signed the paper... when you raise that hand, and go through the oath... your are military... Active,

Reserve, or Gaurd. That whole Why do we gotta dip into reserve, gaurd argument is bullshit.

Adams