View Full Version : pheremones! increased muscle mass?
luckyhorse
10-04-2004, 11:03 PM
i could swear i have increased my muscle mass in the last 2 months ever since using pheremones! am i losing my mind
or has anyone else experienced this weird phenomenon! its too bad i havent measured my arms and shoulders as this is
where i have gained the most! is the whole thing possible?:frustrate
DrSmellThis
10-05-2004, 01:02 AM
It's possible that pheromones
have a sort of homeopathic action.
DAdams91982
10-05-2004, 01:55 AM
Because of such sheer minute
(or however you spell that) doses of the andro's, its not possible to gain on it. It doesnt have the properties to
transdermally carry it across at an effective rate.
Put it this way... With something such at 4AD... you need
to take 800 - 1000 mgs a day to see results. Or as for one of the most potent transdermals 1-Test... 300 - 600
Mg's. Both of these are considered the "Moderate" dose... so most go much higher.
But anyway... By the looks
of the structures of the mones.. they could have some anabolic/androgenic properties... but by so little that is put
on, and carrier involved... Im 99.99% positive this did not attribute to your gaining of mass.
Adams
DrSmellThis
10-05-2004, 02:34 AM
This is someone who obviously
doesn't believe in homeopathy.
DAdams91982
10-05-2004, 03:10 AM
I believe in homeopathy...
To an extent, and with certain substances. Andro is not one of em... Why hasnt every other pheromone user here
blown up??? I know some people here have been using phero's for years and then some.
Put it this way...
Phero's and what they do.. You know.. and I would never question what you had to say about them.. actually I would
take what you say as facts...
Anabolics, and Fitness substances is my forte'
Adams
belgareth
10-05-2004, 03:59 AM
i could swear
i have increased my muscle mass in the last 2 months ever since using pheremones! am i losing my mind or has anyone
else experienced this weird phenomenon! its too bad i havent measured my arms and shoulders as this is where i have
gained the most! is the whole thing possible?:frustrate
There was a guy on the forum a couple years ago
the swore pheromones caused him to gain weight. In his caase is seemed to be water. Nobody believed him. No we have
a second report of gain from mones, it makes me wonder if there isn't something to it in some very rare cases.
Chemo (BDC Concepts)
10-05-2004, 04:10 AM
...
Anabolics, and Fitness substances is my forte'
Adams
Remember,
AAS and fitness is my forte as well :)
One thing you need to keep in mind is that pheromones may raise serum
testosterone levels to a minor extent (increases LH slightly). For someone who may be at equilibrium without a
proper exercise regime a small change in test level will certainly mean a gain of at least a few pounds...which
would be a noticeable mesomorphosis.
However, salty dogs like us would probably need something a tad bit
stronger :)
Chemo
DAdams91982
10-05-2004, 04:17 AM
Remember, AAS and fitness is my forte as well :)
One thing you need to keep in mind is that pheromones
may raise serum testosterone levels to a minor extent (increases LH slightly). For someone who may be at equilibrium
without a proper exercise regime a small change in test level will certainly mean a gain of at least a few
pounds...which would be a noticeable mesomorphosis.
However, salty dogs like us would probably need something a
tad bit stronger :)
Chemo
Smelling Phero's raises LH??? Even then... wouldnt it be so very small of
a change that it wouldnt be to terribly noticable... I mean chertain foods, and herbs, and such also fluctuate test
in small amounts.
Not disagreeing with anything your saying.. just questions from myside... since Phero's are my
area.
Last statment I do agree with though... maybe just a "Tad".
Adams
DAdams91982
10-05-2004, 04:22 AM
There was a
guy on the forum a couple years ago the swore pheromones caused him to gain weight. In his caase is seemed to be
water. Nobody believed him. No we have a second report of gain from mones, it makes me wonder if there isn't
something to it in some very rare cases.
These are two very distant cases though... We dont got a
background on if anything changed in his lifestyle or what not... I mean changing weather can fluctuate test a
little bit.
We need a controlled test subject... Someone who isnt a "Salty Dog" 8-)
Adams
DrSmellThis
10-05-2004, 04:38 AM
I believe
in homeopathy... To an extent, and with certain substances. Andro is not one of em... Why hasnt every other
pheromone user here blown up??? I know some people here have been using phero's for years and then some.
Put
it this way... Phero's and what they do.. You know.. and I would never question what you had to say about them..
actually I would take what you say as facts...
Anabolics, and Fitness substances is my forte'
Adams This is a crossover area, not strictly about fitness substances. Sometime micro doses of something
can be stronger than mega doses. HgH works in homeopathic form, so why not pheromones? I've had this idea for a
while, but am just now thinking out loud with it. It wouldn't have to work that way for everybody, since
homeopathics don't work that way anyhow. I thought I got a little more cut and put on a little non-fat weight when
I started using them too. I never concluded anything from that, and I still don't. So I'm not saying
you're wrong, because I don't know. But why dismiss a sensible hypothesis out of hand before any evidence
has been gathered?
DrSmellThis
10-05-2004, 04:42 AM
Smelling
Phero's raises LH??? Even then... wouldnt it be so very small of a change that it wouldnt be to terribly
noticable... I mean chertain foods, and herbs, and such also fluctuate test in small amounts.
Not disagreeing with
anything your saying.. just questions from myside... since Phero's are my area.
Last statment I do agree with
though... maybe just a "Tad".
AdamsEffect sizes of LH spikes are unclear to date, though significant for
-nol and copulins.
DAdams91982
10-05-2004, 05:14 AM
This is a
crossover area, not strictly about fitness substances. HgH works in homeopathic form, so why not pheromones? I've
had this idea for a while, but am just now thinking out loud with it. It wouldn't have to work that way for
everybody, since homeopathics don't work that way anyhow. I thought I got a little more cut and put on a little
non-fat weight when I started using them too. I never concluded anything from that, and I still don't. So I'm not
saying you're wrong, because I don't know. But why dismiss a sensible hypothesis out of hand before any
evidence has been gathered?
HgH is junk in the homeopathic form... HgH to be effective, should be
injected.
The only reason I say this was wrong, is because of the way the "Chemicals" work for this type of
thing... again I dont know much about how pheromone's work. I was quick to backtrack a little bit when chemo said
something about flucuating LH... This is something I would like to know more about. Im still skeptical... actually
damn positive it didn't gain any mass... but am always willing to hear peoples opinions on this, cause like I
said... Im no pro on pheros... so really I'd believe whatever Chemo said, cause he is quite skilled in both
fields.
Adams
DrSmellThis
10-05-2004, 05:51 AM
Pardon me a moment, but I'm
feeling a tad cranky and need to vent. Maybe it's that time of the month. I must admit it is a pet peeve of mine
when someone proclaims something is "junk" (like someone's idea) in an arrogant manner without citing evidence, or
demonstrating knowledge of the relevant issues, other than claiming they just know what they are talking about
better than someone else. It squelches discussion, unless someone is willing to be assertive like myself. Few are,
as they think it's not worth it. Usually they're right. Because then I personally feel obliged to spend time
looking up research to fix someone else's irresponsible statement, just because they wouldn't search for the
studies. And yeah, I feel "scoffed at", which should be unnecessary, even though that's just a trivial ego bruise.
Right or wrong, I almost never just say something without multiple good reasons to do so, unless I'm kidding. If
you are just expressing an opinion and guessing you should admit that, but you act like you have some conclusive
evidence. There, I feel better. Nothing personal. You are by no means the worst offender.
Apparently there have
been a few positive studies emerging about homeopathic HgH.
http://www.findarticles.com/p
/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_Feb-March/ai_82881786 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_Feb-March/ai_82881786)
http://www.metafoods.com/include/metafoods/mf
_hgh_studies.htm (http://www.metafoods.com/include/metafoods/mf_hgh_studies.htm)
http://www.vitaminusa.com/homrechumgro.html
My
nutritionist also showed me a study where those who took homeopathic HgH after quitting the injectable form retained
several HgH benefits much longer than those who quit altogether, but I couldn't find that one this morning. These
studies don't prove anything anyway. But they do suggest more research is warranted, which means that the time for
generating hypotheses is now. When I and my friend took homeopathic HgH for a brief trial, both of us experienced
immediate improvement in sleep and our voices lowered permanently. The product is of course controversial, but the
controversy has not been based on research so far, but on theoretical misconceptions about how homeopathy works
(e.g., that it must be based in "opposites", or that the actual molecule content is what matters.)
DAdams91982
10-05-2004, 06:56 AM
I ment no disrespect in the
first place... I told you I value your information on stuff you know... I am speaking with knowledge that I have
gained through real tests on myself, and throught the AAS community.. not through medical studies.. though value may
raise, and certain things pop up in a medical study, doesnt mean it is really working in the subject themselves... I
would trust a guy named EuroJuicer on a forums, who has numerous people backing him up (Name is finctional).. over
someone who has an MD through a textbook.
I'd love to show some references.. but I cant spend much time on
here... I just get to dip in and out here and there.. since Im deployed to Southwest Asia.
Adams
Pardon me a moment, but I'm feeling a tad cranky and need to vent. Maybe it's that time of
the month. I must admit it is a pet peeve of mine when someone proclaims something is "junk" (like someone's idea)
in an arrogant manner without citing evidence, or demonstrating knowledge of the relevant issues, other than
claiming they just know what they are talking about better than someone else. It squelches discussion, unless
someone is willing to be assertive like myself. Few are, as they think it's not worth it. Usually they're right.
Because then I personally feel obliged to spend time looking up research to fix someone else's irresponsible
statement, just because they wouldn't search for the studies. And yeah, I feel "scoffed at", which should be
unnecessary, even though that's just a trivial ego bruise. I almost never just say something without multiple good
reasons to do so, unless I'm kidding. If you are just expressing an opinion and guessing you should admit that, but
you act like you have some conclusive evidence. There, I feel better. Nothing personal. You are by no means the
worst offender.
Apparently there are a few studies emerging about homeopathic HgH.
http://www.findarticles.com/p
/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_Feb-March/ai_82881786 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_Feb-March/ai_82881786)
http://www.metafoods.com/include/metafoods/mf
_hgh_studies.htm (http://www.metafoods.com/include/metafoods/mf_hgh_studies.htm)
http://www.vitaminusa.com/homrechumgro.html
My
nutritionist told me he saw a study where those who took homeopathic HgH after quitting the injectable form retained
HgH benefits longer than those who quit altogether. These studies don't prove anything, but they do suggest more
research is warranted, which means that the time for generating hypotheses is now. When I and my friend took
homeopathic HgH for a brief trial, both of us experienced immediate improvement in sleep and our voices lowered
permanently. The product is of course controversial, but the controversy has not been based on research so far, but
on theoretical misconceptions about how homeopathy works (e.g., that it must be based in "opposites", or that the
actual molecule content is what matters.)
CptKipling
10-05-2004, 08:42 AM
Cops is reputed to raise T
levels by 150%, I'm don't know the figures for -nol but I remember Bruce told JVK to include -nol in SOE because
it caused a LH spike.
I also wonder if products like TE/NPA boost testosterone levels, factoring in the
stimulant and aggressive properties/effects on self.
cpt, JVK just said yesterday that the
150 percent was from a cops and nol mx, and the formula in that study is what he used for SOE/w.
We've had
it wrong on the forum all of this time apparently, as it was not just cops
CptKipling
10-05-2004, 09:04 AM
Thanks bjf I hadn't read that
thread yet :thumbsup:
DAdams91982
10-05-2004, 09:58 PM
Cops is
reputed to raise T levels by 150%, I'm don't know the figures for -nol but I remember Bruce told JVK to include
-nol in SOE because it caused a LH spike.
I also wonder if products like TE/NPA boost testosterone levels,
factoring in the stimulant and aggressive properties/effects on self.
150%... that is quite a bit... there
is a big different between 500ng/ml, and 750ng... I wish I could do bloodtest every 10 minutes... one before cops,
and one after.
Ha... new preworkout mix, Of course your whey, and V12, and all that fun stuff (M5AA for them on
cycle days), and a consistent dose of your favorite Cop. :rofl:
Okay.. maybe only a few of us will
find that funny.
Adams
jvkohl
10-05-2004, 10:28 PM
cpt, JVK just said
yesterday that the 150 percent was from a cops and nol mx, and the formula in that study is what he used for
SOE/w.
We've had it wrong on the forum all of this time apparently, as it was not just cops
I
apologize for being misleading. The cops formula Astrid used is the same in SoE/w. The androstenol was added to the
mix since it was linked to increased LH and likely to increased mood in women. How do you get women to wear a
fragrance product that has more appeal to men than to women? Make sure it has a positive effect on the women (e.g.,
incorporate androstenol)
JVK
sonicbum
10-06-2004, 06:23 AM
you guys are trippin if you
think pheromone fragrances actually raise your test enough to see wight gain. something is being over looked, but
its obviously NOT the cologne.
DAdams91982
10-06-2004, 06:53 AM
you guys are
trippin if you think pheromone fragrances actually raise your test enough to see wight gain. something is being over
looked, but its obviously NOT the cologne.
I believe the same thing.
Adams
Tiger4
10-06-2004, 08:25 AM
cpt, JVK just said yesterday that the 150 percent was from a cops and nol mx, and the formula in that
study is what he used for SOE/w.
We've had it wrong on the forum all of this time apparently, as it was not
just cops
I've noticed very good effects on women wearing beta-nol alone and I am currently experimenting
with PCC alone. Has anyone tried PCC + beta-nol? If regular nol + copulins raises testosterone by 150%, what will
beta-nol + copulins do or even beta-nol + nol + copulins?
tiger, I ws wrong. it is just cops.
I have beta nol. I still don't buy that adding cops offers much benefit. maybe it makes us produce more of our
own pheromones.
canivaro
10-06-2004, 03:44 PM
luckyhorse, lemme ask you a
question. have you also noticed a difference in your eating habits? The reason I'm asking is because as of lately,
I've been having irresistable cravings, I get so so so hungry. and i have been eating like a horse, but whats
weird is that i havent noticed getting fatter rather my muscles look more pumped and defined. and i only lift
weights like once a week. It sounds outraggeous I know... but who knows... may have something to do with p-mones
like you say.
luckyhorse
10-06-2004, 06:33 PM
no my eating habits are
pretty much the same but my arms have increased in size definetly my veins are popping out of both biceps i do
physical work for a living but have not increased my workload to justify the gain my strength has increased as well!
strange very strange!:thumbsup:
jvkohl
10-06-2004, 07:48 PM
I still don't buy that
adding cops offers much benefit. maybe it makes us produce more of our own pheromones.
Do you mean
that you don't believe Astrid's finding of 150% testosterone increase? Such an increase would be very likely to
result in increased masculine pheromone production.
I've had peer review comments like "I don't buy the
model." Such comments, as yours, do not allow for any rational reply, other than tell us why you "don't buy"
---whatever.....
JVK
BDC_Concepts
10-06-2004, 10:42 PM
I swear I saw the link to
the Astrid study before or otherwise had it in my personal research files but cannot find it at the moment. Could
someone please post or link to the abstract once again.
Thanks
Matt
Do you mean that you
don't believe Astrid's finding of 150% testosterone increase? Such an increase would be very likely to result in
increased masculine pheromone production.
I've had peer review comments like "I don't buy the model." Such
comments, as yours, do not allow for any rational reply, other than tell us why you "don't buy"
---whatever.....
JVK
No JVK, I meant I don't buy that adding
cops would help men attract women, at least directly because of the cops. Some people use it based on the social
validation theory - as in they get laid, so women (non-partners) should find them desirable.
I don't think
people react to pheromones like that, ie he has cops on him, so he just got laid. It seems to be a non-rational,
instinctual quick response, and I'd guess it would be read as "he has a vagina".
However, I think that maybe
wearing cops could help in the sense that they increase your T-levels, and thus pheromone production, but who knows
how long that process takes. Maybe in the time window when you are wearing the cops, the pheromones from that
t-level increase don't make it to the light of day.
Anyway, my biggest reason for being a non-believer on
wearing cops on a man is that the best indication of usefulness is the experiments of the forum members, and most of
those who tried did not believe them to be useful.
jvkohl
10-07-2004, 06:28 AM
I don't think people
react to pheromones like that, ie he has cops on him, so he just got laid. It seems to be a non-rational,
instinctual quick response, and I'd guess it would be read as "he has a vagina".
However, I think that maybe
wearing cops could help in the sense that they increase your T-levels, and thus pheromone production, but who knows
how long that process takes. Maybe in the time window when you are wearing the cops, the pheromones from that
t-level increase don't make it to the light of day.
Anyway, my biggest reason for being a non-believer on
wearing cops on a man is that the best indication of usefulness is the experiments of the forum members, and most of
those who tried did not believe them to be useful.
BJF,
Thank you for the clarification. The
increased T response reportedly occurs after approx. 20 minutes
exposure.
http://evolution.anthro.univie.ac.at/institutes/urbanethology/student/html/astrid/femphers.htm
l
I also have doubts about the effectiveness of using cops when it comes to men using them to increase
the interest of women. However, there's a new report I just posted info on that indicates a chemical secreted in
the underarm area of breastfeeding women increases sexual interest in other women.
JVK
CptKipling
10-07-2004, 07:02 AM
Thanks for the link JVK.
CollegeStudent
10-07-2004, 08:19 AM
However,
there's a new report I just posted info on that indicates a chemical secreted in the underarm area of breastfeeding
women increases sexual interest in other women.[/url]
When can I place my order? :) :lol:
jvkohl
10-07-2004, 08:16 PM
When can I
place my order? :) :lol:
My bet is that the chemical signal is based upon either -rone or -nol
production. It is unlikely that it's -none related since -none is typically an aversive scent. Martha McClintock's
group is probably well on their way to isolating the chemical by now. Monel scientists Charles Wysocki and George
Preti already suggested that the key to human pheromone discovery would be finding an effect on luteinizing hormone
(LH) of the particular chemical that's isolated.
JVK
DrSmellThis
10-07-2004, 09:49 PM
You might be able to
synthesize the chemical by treating typical steroids or apocrine secretions with the afirementioned mother's milk
bacteria, assuming coryneforms or other strains found more on women don't have to get to it first to make it
"digestible".
ismellgood
10-17-2004, 10:25 AM
Perhaps I am not too late to
add to the original theme of this thread:
I also noticed that since I began frequent use of low-dose chikara,
my muscle mass and tone have improved (noted by not only me, but by my woman and the camera as well) while slightly
reducing weight (hence, the tiny bit of fat that I had).
sonicbum
10-17-2004, 10:35 AM
make sure you dont use too much
chikara then, cuz you might get gyno symptoms...lol
ManBeast
10-17-2004, 06:18 PM
ROFLMAO.... I can just see it
now.... "Pheromones gave me b*tch-tits!"
:LOL:
MB
DAdams91982
10-17-2004, 10:18 PM
make sure
you dont use too much chikara then, cuz you might get gyno symptoms...lol
Just keep your Nolva on
hand!!!
Adams
ismellgood
10-18-2004, 05:32 AM
The comments about "gyno
symptoms" or breast growth make no sense.
The effects to which I refer seem androgenic, NOT estrogenic.
Chemo (BDC Concepts)
10-18-2004, 07:23 AM
I don't think the
gyno commens were directed to you. It is a running joke that anything anabolic or otherwise is claimed to yield
muscle mass will inevitably have a novice claiming estrogenic side effects. For instance, "I took X grams of
creatine for Y days and now have a size DD bra". Or, "I once looked at a stash of 4-AD and increased my fatty
breast tissue by X percent".
Don't worry...it's a bodybuildr's joke :)
Bobby
DAdams91982
10-18-2004, 07:53 AM
The
comments about "gyno symptoms" or breast growth make no sense.
The effects to which I refer seem androgenic, NOT
estrogenic.
Damn killer calm down... Just a joke for someone who uses anabolics... Excess Test Turnes to
Estrogen.
Adams
ismellgood
10-18-2004, 08:58 AM
Perhaps the swiftness of my
getting irritated above is further "evidence" of an androgenic effect of pheromones.
:)
DAdams91982
10-18-2004, 11:15 PM
Perhaps
the swiftness of my getting irritated above is further "evidence" of an androgenic effect of pheromones.
:)
You mean... the oh so mythical "Roid Rage"??? :rofl:
Adams
BIONIC MAN
12-11-2004, 06:11 AM
BJF,
Thank you
for the clarification. The increased T response reportedly occurs after approx. 20 minutes exposure.
http://evol
ution.anthro.univie.ac.at/institutes/urbanethology/student/html/astrid/femphers.html (http://evolution.anthro.univie.ac.at/institutes/urbanethology/student/html/astrid/femphers.html)
I also have doubts
about the effectiveness of using cops when it comes to men using them to increase the interest of women. However,
there's a new report I just posted info on that indicates a chemical secreted in the underarm area of breastfeeding
women increases sexual interest in other women.
JVK
(http://) I
AGREE WITH JV, the copulins will raise test levels scientifically proven. and the first time i tried cops under my
nose i got 2 more reps on a heavy weight bench press. but i also had some very potent none on too. so from now on
cops goes under nostrils before workout time. :type:
jvkohl
12-11-2004, 07:45 PM
I AGREE WITH JV,
the copulins will raise test levels scientifically proven. and the first time i tried cops under my nose i got 2
more reps on a heavy weight bench press. but i also had some very potent none on too. so from now on cops goes under
nostrils before workout time. :type:
I'd advise against using the none; it would be somewhat like
working out with an alpha male--a guy who could always outdo you. The effect in other animals is a form of chemical
castration, where the alpha male's testosterone increases (because he's the undeclared winner), while yours
decreases. I'm ridiculously paranoid about this -- to the point of trying to ensure I don't inhale, when someone
who's more muscular than me passes by. Of course, when an attractive woman passes by, I'll do my best to catch a
good whiff of her--that's always come natural to me, even long before I knew anything about
pheromones.
Okay, I know some of you probably workout with a friend, or sometimes use a "spotter." If the guy
is helping you, he's probably not going to have the effect of an alpha male. But if you can find a nice young lady
to work out with, that's the best scenario; even better than using
cops.
JVK
BIONIC MAN
12-12-2004, 04:30 PM
I'd advise
against using the none; it would be somewhat like working out with an alpha male--a guy who could always outdo you.
The effect in other animals is a form of chemical castration, where the alpha male's testosterone increases
(because he's the undeclared winner), while yours decreases. I'm ridiculously paranoid about this -- to the point
of trying to ensure I don't inhale, when someone who's more muscular than me passes by. Of course, when an
attractive woman passes by, I'll do my best to catch a good whiff of her--that's always come natural to me, even
long before I knew anything about pheromones.
Okay, I know some of you probably workout with a friend, or
sometimes use a "spotter." If the guy is helping you, he's probably not going to have the effect of an alpha male.
But if you can find a nice young lady to work out with, that's the best scenario; even better than using cops.
JVK
(http://) I was not sure about power increase ,
i did read studies by you and some other researchers . and the cops study did show test increase. the none could be
bad for lifting is what you are saying? but i guess the other guys in the gym would be weaker since my od none would
make me the alpha male:trout: one question i was pondering on does rone convert to none ?:think:
belgareth
12-12-2004, 04:40 PM
But if you can
find a nice young lady to work out with, that's the best scenario; even better than using cops.
JVK
(http://)
Wonderful! I knew there was a good reason
to spar with Linda, beside her being pleassant to look at that is.
jvkohl
12-12-2004, 08:33 PM
the none could
be bad for lifting is what you are saying? but i guess the other guys in the gym would be weaker since my od none
would make me the alpha male:trout: one question i was pondering on does rone convert to none
?:think:
The none OD at the gym doesn't make much sense to me. I'd care more about the cops effect
on me, rather than the none effect on others. There's almost always someone who's more muscular, and usually more
men than women on the free weights. Best to ensure that cops are increasing your testosterone, and not worry about
your none effect on other men. Besides, the none OD isn't likely to get any positive attention from women. I don't
think that any studies have shown rone to none conversion--not sure if that's even possible due to a difference
between C-17 and C-19 conversion.
JVK
jvkohl
12-12-2004, 08:49 PM
Wonderful! I knew
there was a good reason to spar with Linda, beside her being pleassant to look at that is.
Think
about the cops effect when she kicks to the head. Now, try not to think about it next time she does it--focus man,
focus.
Best workout partner I ever had was a young lady who sounded like she was having an orgasm each time
she increased the weight while approaching her max. Go Sally, Go--more weight, more weight, lots of guys cheering
her on, she never needed to ask for a spotter.
JVK
BIONIC MAN
12-12-2004, 09:07 PM
The none OD at
the gym doesn't make much sense to me. I'd care more about the cops effect on me, rather than the none effect on
others. There's almost always someone who's more muscular, and usually more men than women on the free weights.
Best to ensure that cops are increasing your testosterone, and not worry about your none effect on other men.
Besides, the none OD isn't likely to get any positive attention from women. I don't think that any studies have
shown rone to none conversion--not sure if that's even possible due to a difference between C-17 and C-19
conversion.
JVK
(http://)
Thanks :box: im very interested in the rone , it just seems people run if you got an od going on with the none.:run:
could you od on rone?:think:
CptKipling
12-13-2004, 09:23 AM
i find that if I put some TE
under my nose I get very aggressive which is useful when doing anything to do with sport.
I go running, play
football, sprint, cycle, work out a little, etc., and I usually wear both EW and TE under my nose if I really want
to go for it.
jvkohl
12-14-2004, 07:26 PM
Thanks :box: im
very interested in the rone , it just seems people run if you got an od going on with the none.:run: could you od on
rone?:think:
I've only known a few women who were super sensitive to rone, and found it
aversive-except for pregnant women, who almost invariably found it to smell very bad--even in the lowest
concentration. Simply put, I think you can OD on anything, but an OD with rone is much less likely than with other
products.
JVK
BIONIC MAN
12-14-2004, 07:42 PM
I've only
known a few women who were super sensitive to rone, and found it aversive-except for pregnant women, who almost
invariably found it to smell very bad--even in the lowest concentration. Simply put, I think you can OD on anything,
but an OD with rone is much less likely than with other products.
JVK
(http://) the
rone might be a better choice for me with a little nol. the none makes people run from me:run: that does make me
wonder why people push none so much .:thumbsup:
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