Chikara or Perception ?

[Indigo]

:LOL:

Hello

guys,

I'm new here on the forum and hope to get some help!
I am interested to test Chikara or Perception, but

am not sure which to choose. Chikara has a much better Pheromones per USD ratio ( about twice as good ) but

Perception on the other hand has the advantages mentioned in the product information. Are these advantages really

worth the money?
What would you recommend?

Regards

Ingo

[koolking1]

one of each!!!

[Indigo]

So with other words: The are both

great products and worth their money ?!?!
Any experience with them?

Regards

Ingo

[dalesalsa82]

This is the same question I

have!!
I've been going thru the whole forum and reading everything on Chicara and perception. And it seems that

chicara has more of an respect-based-feel from it. People have said that its sexual but the sexuality comes slower

but you will have people respect. I definately love that. That would make it perfect for work. Awesome respect,

no bitchiness from other guys, and not crazy sexuallity from the ladies (that way they can focus on work) jeje.


But anyway I've been in situations where almost all of the women at the workplace where hitting on me and that

shit actually got me in trouble! Freaking managers....but I did "flirt" a little bit. ;-)

If any one has done

a good comparison....let us Know!
Also if any ladies have any thoughts on the recieving end of these two, let us

know too. Thanks
Later...

[Indigo]

But anyway

I've been in situations where almost all of the women at the workplace where hitting on me and that shit actually

got me in trouble! Freaking managers....but I did "flirt" a little bit. ;-)

...
Did you get those hits

with chikara?

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Which one to buy?

If there is one to try I would have to consider Chikara first. Listen, I manufacture Perception but the type of

hits is completely different. I'm a married man of 12 years and Chikara usually gets the warm, affectionate

response from my wife whereas Perception really gets the animal out. So, I guess it depends on how the females

around you respond to each and what your desired response is.

So, if you have to buy one get Chikara. If you

want to add both to your pheromone arsenal then they are a perfect compliment to each other if used on days/off

days.

However you decide be sure to post your feedback!

Bobby

[Indigo]

Which

one to buy? If there is one to try I would have to consider Chikara first... :goodpost:

Hello Bobby,



thank you for your honest advice. I appreciate that very much!
I have an additional question regarding the

dosage of perception and chikara (as you obviously use both):

1) As one spray of the Perception atomizer

delivers a relatively high amount of 0,1ml, will one spray be enough for getting good results?

2) I read, that

the atomizer of Chikara "only" delivers a "light spritz" of the product. How many sprays do you recommend for

effective application. Can you estimate how many sprays one bottle of Chikara approximately delivers?

Best

regards and thanks for your help

Ingo

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

For myself, and this

is strictly based on personal observation, one spray of each produces the quality of hits that I'm after.



Bobby

[koolking1]

I am going to dedicate

today to Perception and see how it goes. We may go to a swinger party tonight, not sure yet. I will get "out and

about" today as well to see what kind of reactions I get.

[dalesalsa82]

Hey Ingo:
No that was

without any pheromones...just being cocky/funny, teasing, and all that, thats what I mean by "flirting". the mones

add to that. I used to get into alot of fights, and grew up in some kind of ghetto places so when I tried the

NPA/APC mix it fit me perfectly, it smells very clean and fresh on me. Whats the name of this mix by the way? I

forgot.
Anyway thats the only one I've tried in all these years, but now I'm thinking of trying Chikara or

Perception.
Later....

[DrSmellThis]

They're both good, but differ

in complexity -- what are your goals for trying a product?

[Indigo]

They're both

good, but differ in complexity -- what are your goals for trying a product?
Hello DrSMellThis,

well,

the general reaction I'd like to have is just to appear more attractive to women. A better chance to get to know

them.
I'm generally not interested in one-night-stands, but that doesn't mean that I don't aim for sexual hits.

It is just not my primary interest.

On the hole I want a good base product with a good price per dosage ratio!




Regards

Ingo

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Hello

DrSMellThis,

well, the general reaction I'd like to have is just to appear more attractive to women. A better

chance to get to know them.
I'm generally not interested in one-night-stands, but that doesn't mean that I don't

aim for sexual hits. It is just not my primary interest.

On the hole I want a good base product with a good

price per dosage ratio!


Regards

Ingo
Are Chikara and Perception your only options at this

moment? :think:

If so, I would advice Chikara, as Perception is even more recent, so there is a lot more

information about Chikara at the moment (and it seems like almost everyone has good things to say about it)...



If you consider other options, AE and Edge Essentials (Heat version) would be a good choice for you.

Anyway, I

didn't read all posts in this thread, so I don't know if you told us your age. How old are you?

[InternationalPlayboy]

Hello

DrSMellThis,

well, the general reaction I'd like to have is just to appear more attractive to women. A

better chance to get to know them.
I'm generally not interested in one-night-stands, but that doesn't mean that

I don't aim for sexual hits. It is just not my primary interest.

On the hole I want a good base product

with a good price per dosage ratio!


Regards

Ingo

I would say Chikara too. I've

gotten some really good, friendly-type responses from women in a wide age range wearing it. On the other hand,

Perception has given me some looks from a few women of complete surprise, they stare, but almost look scared. Kind

of like a DIHL right before the car hits it. :) Being kind of introverted, this look kind of throws me for a loop,

unless I remember it's probably the pheromones causing it.

I think Perception is good stuff, but for a more

comfortable, friendly vibe I'd go with Chikara.

[Indigo]

If you

consider other options, AE and Edge Essentials (Heat version) would be a good choice for you.

Anyway, I didn't

read all posts in this thread, so I don't know if you told us your age. How old are you?
Hello,

I am

27 years old!
AE is IMO a bit too expensive ( price per pheromone ratio ).
The thing I plan to try is a

combination of Chikara and TE!
What is the difference between TE and TE Essentials?
Could I also combine the

latter with chikara?

Regards

Ingo

[bjf]

Indigo:

Edge essentials

includes essential oils in them so the stuff does not smell as bad. You will want to use chikara and te together,

though, so chikara is a good enough of a cover in itself for you not to worry about the te smell.

Also Edge

Scented (not in the Essentials line) uses sandalwood, but is still smells bad.

Edge Arouser mixes the best

with Chikara of the Essentials line. However, it smells pretty bad by itself for the first 20-30 minutes if you are

not mixing it with anything.

The other Essential product is Edge Heat. That smells better when you first put

it on, but it doesn;t mix well with chikara.


Then there is NPA which is a concentrated version of TE (4

times more). That does not come scented. But it works well with Chikara too.

Sorry if you are more confused

now. If I were you I'd cancel out heat because I don't think the scent is easy to mix with, even though it is a

great standalone product. The rest depends on whether you want to use the NPA/TE solo and whether you care about

how the fragrance smells at first (there are situations where you are around people after applying and it can be a

bit embarrasing with the smell of Edge Arouser.)

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Hello,

I am

27 years old!
AE is IMO a bit too expensive ( price per pheromone ratio ).
The thing I plan to try is a

combination of Chikara and TE!
What is the difference between TE and TE Essentials?
Could I also combine the

latter with chikara?

Regards

Ingo
Well, AE has been the number 1 top-seller for a LONG LONG

time... until Chikara showed up. Actually, AE and Edge Heat are my favourite phero products (I haven't used Chikara

as often as I would like till now).

If you want to use TE standalone, you should buy the Heat version, no doubt.

However, if you just want the LaCroy special ingredients to be used in a combo, I think you should get either TE

unscented or NPA... and use it with Chikara or AE.

[Indigo]

Indigo:

Edge

essentials includes essential oils in them so the stuff does not smell as bad. You will want to use chikara and te

together, though, so chikara is a good enough of a cover in itself for you not to worry about the te smell.

Edge

Arouser mixes the best with Chikara of the Essentials line. However, it smells pretty bad by itself for the first

20-30 minutes if you are not mixing it with anything.

Then there is NPA which is a concentrated version of TE

(4 times more). That does not come scented. But it works well with Chikara too.

Sorry if you are more confused

now. If I were you I'd cancel out heat because I don't think the scent is easy to mix with, even though it is a

great standalone product. The rest depends on whether you want to use the NPA/TE solo and whether you care about how

the fragrance smells at first (there are situations where you are around people after applying and it can be a bit

embarrasing with the smell of Edge Arouser.)
Hello bjf,

well, no need for saying sorry.I am definitely

not more confused. Far from it! I knew the options before ans thought about them. You gave me very much of the

information I still needed ( and not yet asked about ).
So there are two options left for me:

1. Chikara plus

TE unscented or
2. Chikara plus TE Essentilas Arouser. ( Has the Essentials series a unscrewable cap? How do you

apply it? Is it a dropper or sprayer bottle)

The point is: How well does the Arouser smell mixes with that of

Chikara. Most of the time I will probably use
the combination of both products!

Thanks

Ingo

[bjf]

Indigo. Arouser goes well with

Chikara. And yes, it has an unscrewable cap. People do anywhere from 2-8 dabs of edge. As far as spraying goes,

most stick to 1-2 sprays, but on some people, even one spray is too much.

Eight dabs is getting close to a

spray. Difficult to measure these things.

If you are going to go the edge unscented route, just get edge

scented (sandalwood) because though it still needs a cover (chikara will work well with that), it does smell better

on its own than standard te unscented.

[Indigo]

If you are going to

go the edge unscented route, just get edge scented (sandalwood) because though it still needs a cover (chikara will

work well with that), it does smell better on its own than standard te unscented.
Hello bjf,

so with

other words the sandalwood scent is much lighter than that of TE Arouser?!?! Will the arouser smell cover chikara?


I have to say that i ovrall only want a light scent on my body ( Chikara and TE (which version ever )

together)!
I wouldn't dislike the possibility to use TE alone at times.


Greetings

Ingo

[bjf]

Sandalwood scent is lighter. They

shortchanged the sandalwood in there or something, which is why the bad smell of the edge still comes

through.

Arouser is pretty heavy scent. Yes, it can change the Chikara scent. The two will mix together and

form something in-between (obviously). Chikara is a sweet vanilla musk while Arouser is a heavy cedar.

[Indigo]

Sandalwood scent is

lighter. They shortchanged the sandalwood in there or something, which is why the bad smell of the edge still comes

through.


Thanks, that gives me a clear decision against the Essential versions.
So the Sandalwood

won't change the Chikara scent much but improve the smell when I use TE it alone. Did I get that rigth?

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

So the

Sandalwood won't change the Chikara scent much but improve the smell when I use TE it alone. Did I get that

rigth?
That's right... but if you're not certain about what you should buy, try getting some TE gel

packs (sandalwood scented) and do some experimenting with them (standalone or combined with Chikara).

[Indigo]

So, if you have to buy one get Chikara. If you want to add both to your pheromone arsenal then they are a perfect

compliment to each other if used on days/off days.

However you decide be sure to post your feedback!



Bobby
Hello Bobby,

thanks for your advice again. I have two more questions about Perception.
As I

am no native english speaker and I didn't understand all words and phrases on your webpage my first question is:



1. What would be the advantages of perception toward a product containing exactly the same pheromones in the same

concentration in an convential alcohol base.

2. What does Androsterone do compared to -none and -nol.

Best

regards

Ingo

[BDC_Concepts]

Hello Bobby,



thanks for your advice again. I have two more questions about Perception.
As I am no native english speaker

and I didn't understand all words and phrases on your webpage my first question is:

1. What would be the

advantages of perception toward a product containing exactly the same pheromones in the same concentration in an

convential alcohol base.

2. What does Androsterone do compared to -none and -nol.

Best regards



Ingo

Perception features a unique pheromone ratio outside of any product. That fact alone, in

our eyes based on research, makes it quite effective. Part of the incentive is the formula we have used to create

the matrix Perception is housed in. Essentially we have derived a formula that avoids transdermal uptake and

provides for an extended release giving effects up to 12 hours or more where other products cannot. As for the

difference between nol, rone, and none... this is up for much debate. Some people say none isn't effective, others

say it is. Feedback says one thing and in another thread says another. If you read the cookbook, the basic is that

none = sexual, nol = social, rone = hybrid. While I don't necessarily agree with the basic descriptions.....I feel

most combinations are synergistic (or the lack thereof), and it is difficult to provide a explanation for each. Out

of curiousity, I want to invite Dr. Smell This to come in as I respect much of what he has to say and I would like

to open this portion up to him to provide what HE believes nol, none, and rone provide in terms of results. Not to

put you on the spot, but DST tends to present ideas that go outside of the norm, which might lead into some

interesting discussion.

[Indigo]

Out of

curiousity, I want to invite Dr. Smell This to come in as I respect much of what he has to say and I would like to

open this portion up to him to provide what HE believes nol, none, and rone provide in terms of results.

Hello,

thank you for the information.
I agree with you regarding the opinion of the doctor!



Regards

Ingo

[DrSmellThis]

I

agree, Matt. Everything interacts. No one pheromone is better than another, though -nol and -none are easier to use

in isolation for attraction. All their qualities together provide the best results, in the proper proportions. In

psychological terms, average levels among various pheromones should vary with personality traits; and a well

balanced "pheromone personality" profile is best. :blink: We still often talk about them as having individual

"characters," though.

Consider -rone. As with the other two, there's a good bit of research and anecdotal

storytelling on androsterone. JVK has called androsterone alpha-maleness; or simply, maleness. Putting it all

together with my private impressions suggests that androsterone feels like "Charlton Heston as Moses" -- young and

capable; yet fatherly, brotherly and safe. A leader, steward, or protector -- a mature hero -- might emit a lot of

-rone. -Rone is an attention grabber as well as -none, but grabs it more gently by comparison. Dosage of -rone is

very senstive, in that optimizing it really sweetens the effect of a mix, but too much flirts with LJBF (or "LJB

brothers and sisters") territory; and deadens it a bit. This is why it is good to get chem set -rone at some point,

to get that increased control in trying to hit the sweet spot. Since -rone, as a DHEA metabolite, varies with the

amount of DHEA, one might suppose it peaks before well before age 25 and declines thereafter. So questions about any

"fatherly effect" arise. Is its possible another -mone emerges to take its place after 25? Could -rone and

age-increased estrogen metabolites interact somehow? Could pathways other than arising directly from DHEA pick up

the slack as we age? Am I mistaking "fatherly" for "brotherly"? :think: Related experiences while using WAGG, V5 and

Chikara suggest other mones and their ratios contribute to such effects as well. Discuss! ;)

-Nol is a largely

gender-neutral mone that signifies youth -- possibly a bit moreso for men -- and femininity -- possibly a bit moreso

for women. In men it is combined with other things that distinguish it from the female profile, and vice-versa. For

men, the trick with -nol is to suggest youth but not femininity. Women might have a bigger range here.



Androstenone is like raw machismo juice, and must be used very harmoniously and judiciously, especially by women.

It might vary closely with testosterone, which doesn't decline as drastically with age. -None research presented by

those critical of -none is flawed in not varying dosage, while it has provided valuable information on interaction

with ovulation.

Of course, other -mones are important too. Talk amongst yourselves...

[Indigo]

Hello Bobby and Matt,

will there

be a possibility later to buy only the pheromone product without the scent? I think that would be a great advantage

for customers not wanting to use the fragrance or who only need e.g. half a bottle of the scent for one bottle of

the pheromones.
That would save one atomizer in that case, thus save money and make the product more attractive!



Best regards and thanks for your support

Ingo

[nbnbtc]

Excellent post Doc, but where does

A1 fit into all of this?

[DrSmellThis]

I guess it doesn't, since A1

is in neither Chikara nor Perception.

[Mtnjim]

I guess it

doesn't, since A1 is in neither Chikara nor Perception.

You're sure??

[DrSmellThis]

No sir -- I only know what the

man Bruce has said, which is that the 4 CHK secrets were heretofore unavailable at L-S, which would elimenate A1.

[Mtnjim]

No sir -- I only

know what the man Bruce has said, which is that the 4 CHK secrets were heretofore unavailable at L-S, which would

elimenate A1.


Ah! Yes, now that you mention it, he did say that. (You'll understand when you're

old and senile :lol: )

[Indigo]

Essentially we

have derived a formula that avoids transdermal uptake and provides for an extended release giving effects up to 12

hours or more where other products cannot.
Hello Matt,

I have got one more question about the water

base.
When sweating, does the pheromones get affected more or less then those in convential alcohol based

pheromones?

Regards

Ingo

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Ingo,

See my

post here: here (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?p=135030#post135030)

If you need further

clarification just let me know!

Bobby

[bjf]

Putting it all

together with my private impressions suggests that androsterone feels like "Charlton Heston as Moses" -- young and

capable; yet fatherly, brotherly and safe. A leader, steward, or protector -- a mature hero -- might emit a lot of

-rone. -Rone is an attention grabber as well as -none, but grabs it more gently by comparison. Dosage of -rone is

very senstive, in that optimizing it really sweetens the effect of a mix, but too much flirts with LJBF (or "LJB

brothers and sisters") territory; and deadens it a bit. This is why it is good to get chem set -rone at some point,

to get that increased control in trying to hit the sweet spot.

Could it be because our stress levels

are lower in platonic or family relationships compared to the excited/nervousness of sexual relationships?

[DrSmellThis]

Internal hormonal differences

and adrenal stimulation are a big part of it, of course. I don't think too much adrenaline is good, though.

[bjf]

I am just trying to figure out why

too much rone is a bad thing. You described it as LJB brother sister zone.

Perhaps the higher A/E ratio

someone might have around brothers or sisters compared to mates is the reason. All speculation, of course.

[DrSmellThis]

"Too fatherly" might be

another way of looking at it.

[bjf]

don't a lot of chicks want "exactly

fatherly"

[Mtnjim]

I am just trying to

figure out why too much rone is a bad thing. ...

I've been playing with a high ~Rone mix (4-~nol, 3

~Rone, 2-A1, 1 ~none) and it seems to be getting some interesting results. A couple of days ago, I was standing in a

hall waiting for a class to end so I could go into a classroom (to fix a computer) . The hall is an outside balcony.

Normally the students (college age) are intent on getting to their destinations. That particular day, however, I was

getting smiles and stares from a number of the young women. It isn't so much "I got stares and smiles" as the out

of the ordinary reactions, remember, I'm an old guy(56), old enough to be "invisiable" to 20something

girls.

This particular high ~rone mix seems to be working in other circumstances (with older women) as

well.

Just to point out, the ~Nol is from PI/w, the ~Rone is CS, and the ~none is NPA. The mix is covered w/

Chikara 4 sprays.

[DrSmellThis]

I got better results with 1 cs

-rone (still a pretty good amount) than two when I experimented way back when. I also saw a Maiworm study that

showed -rone enhanced positive responses, except for sexual ones. But I know it enhances sexual responses in the

right amount, and heard about Stone's pilot research that supported this.

[CptKipling]

Maybe too much -rone causes

things to become too safe/sedated/boring?

As a side note, we don't really know how much our bodies age induced

reduction in DHEA levels affects -rone output. It could be the case that production stays fairly constant. Another

posibility is that more is produced as responce to having a territory (house, family, etc.).

[Pancho1188]

I got

better results with 1 cs -rone (still a pretty good amount) than two when I experimented way back when. I also saw a

Maiworm study that showed -rone enhanced positive responses, except for sexual ones. But I know it enhances sexual

responses in the right amount, and heard about Stone's pilot research that supported this.
I heard

about Stone Temple Pilot's research that supported this...it said that it was mainly plush, dead and bloated, makes

you look like a creep if used near a sour girl during an interstate lovesong while traveling through a wicked garden

and thinking about heaven and hotrods. It smelled like vasoline, made you feel down like you have a big empty

inside, but can give you the big bang, baby, and make you look like a sex type thing. I believe it's all in the

suit that you wear, but I have no memory.

:LOL:

I wanted to make a joke about that so bad that I'm willing

to try really hard to contribute to this thread...

Okay, after catching up on this thing...

1. I've used

Perception and Chikara. I think I have one of the 'bad' Chikara bottles as the spray bottle doesn't spray very

well, but the product didn't leak! You won't hear any complaints from me...just the noise of an extra spray

whenever I use it... :lol: Perception works decently, I believe...I think it's a nice scent, and it's good to

throw on and forget about. I have yet to get any major reactions with either, but I have not used them much yet.



2. As Seinfeld would say, "What's the deal with -rone? Nobody ever talks about it, it's never the

highly-advertised ingredient in any product? What's up with that?" Seriously, though, I'm glad someone brought

it up because I've always tried to figure out what -rone does. When I was a newbie, the first response was, "No

one is quite sure what -rone does." Anyway, with this talk that -none attracts pigs more than humans and -nol turns

to -none, then what's going on here? Would the almighty creator of SOE (playful exaggeration) conjecture that the

'secret ingredients' in TE are more likely to cause the reactions in people than the -none? Why isn't -rone in a

higher percentage if people think it has more effects because humans produce it naturally. If it smells like

'fresh sweat', I assume that's a good thing because that would make it similar to the real thing that has been

part of the mating process for years before soap was invented and commonly used...

I've always wondered about

-rone...oh, well.

[deepblue]

No sir -- I

only know what the man Bruce has said, which is that the 4 CHK secrets were heretofore unavailable at L-S, which

would elimenate A1.What exactly are the 4 CHK secret mones? Sounds interesting ...

Also do any of these

cause allergic reactions? I find I can only use the best quality perfumes and colognes. Makes buying a little hard

sometimes. :kiss:

[Indigo]

However you decide be sure to post your feedback!
BobbyHello folks,



first of all thanks for your detailed an very helpful answers. It helped me very much to come to an

decision!
I just got my Chikara and NPA ( I read much about this combination, I just had to test it) !
I

posted my first feedback about the last test weekend here:



http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php

?p=137737#post137737 (http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?p=137737#post137737)

Best regards

Indigo