California banned "ProHormones" ??

[Sesshoumaru]

Does anyone have anymore information on this? I was looking through some sites looking for supplements

ect... and I saw this at the bottom of a page:

"Important - ONLY for the

California customers: Recent changes to California law require a prescription for the sale of anabolic steroids

and some of the ingredients found in the product. Since we do not sell prescription drugs we cannot ship this

product to California residents. If you live in California and add this product to your shopping cart, we will

not be able to ship it to you."




http://www.a1nutritionpr

oducts.com/buy/ErgoPharm/ergo_1ad?utm_id=1&utm_term=1%20ad (http://www.a1nutritionproducts.com/buy/ErgoPharm/ergo_1ad?utm_id=1&utm_term=1%20ad)


Since almost all of the ProHormones sold as

supplements are Precursors to Testosterone, does that mean that Pheromones or chemicals with "andro" in part of

their names can't be sold it California??

[beachboy]

I don't know. Where did you

want to order Ph's?
I ordered some M1T from 1fast400 some weeks ago, that stuff has some serious sides :S.

[ManBeast]

... I hope you ordered some

stuff for post-cycle and did a properly dosed cycle with your diet and training on. Methyl 1-testosterone is a very

serious compound indeed.

MB

[Sesshoumaru]

I don't

know. Where did you want to order Ph's?
I ordered some M1T from 1fast400 some weeks ago, that stuff has some

serious sides :S.
I don't have a problem since i'm a NY resident, but those people in CA are screwed I

guess.


I also ordered M1T, I think it was 6 bottles of the 120 Capsules version (should arrive tomoro).
I

think I can handle it since i'm a big guy, my usual pro-hormone "stack" is:

----------
Mourning,

8:00am
----------

6 Capsules of: Ergopharm 1-AD,
6 Capsules of: ErgoPharm 6-OXO,
1 Capsule of: Pregnenolone

(50mg),
2 Capsules of: D.I.M. (Di-Indolyl Methane, 400mg total),
1 Tablet of: Multi-Vitamin,
2 Capsules of: Milk

Thistle (80% Silymarin, 400mg total).

----------
Afternoon, 7:00pm
----------

1 Tablet of: Horny Goat weed

(1g),
6 Capsules of: Nutrex : Vitrex,
2 Capsules of: Biotest Red Kat,
2 Capsules of: Eleuthero (Ginseng, 900mg

total),
6 Capsules of: Biotest Mag-10,
6 Capsules of: Sci-Fit MastaBolan.


After I take the afternoon stack

I feel SUPER PUMPED and ready for a workout. I workout until failure then I take 1 pill of

Remeron.

Prescription, this stuff knocks you out better than any benzo, Ambien or DIPHENHYDRAMINE.

Remeron also makes you

want to eat like crazy which is great when your bulking up.
-------------------

For Breakfast:

6-8 whole

white eggs, 4 slices of whole wheat bread (with low fat butter), 4-6 sausages, a few slices of low fat cheese and a

glass of %2 skim milk.

For Lunch:

Protein shakes: I subsitute 2 protein shakes (with 2% skim milk) for

lunch. I usually wait a hour before drinking the second one.

For Dinner (3 Hours before workout):

1 pound of

steak ect.. ect.. (try to eat low carbs, lots of meat).

And from dinner to the time before working out I make

sure to drink adequate amounts of water.

I workout at night because if I work out in the mourning I would be

dead tired the rest of the day. Also, almost all the muscle building/repairing happens at night. I've been doing

this for two years with no health affects. Some products weren't available then, I would just subsitute them with

something else. I also add Saw Palmetto to the stack but I ran out of it a few months ago and I always forget to buy

it.

Gains are usually 12-14 pounds of dry muscle (no bloat or estrogen from stack) in 4 weeks. I also get very

vascular. I take 6 tablets of 6-OXO and Vitrix (tribulus) indefinitely to maintain gains.

What sideeffects have

you experienced from M1T?

[ManBeast]

*sigh* this is why there needs

to be some way to get people to do more research on things... hint: 1-test is NOT a prohormone... it's an actual

steroid.

MB

[Sesshoumaru]

1-AD converts to 1-Test

:frustrate .

[ManBeast]

Yes... but not very

well...
600mg of 1-AD is about 150mg of 1-test under active conditions.... sure... 6oxo will work for that for 4

weeks by itself... but what I'm trying to say is that for m1t... it is a whole `nother game... people that have

used steroids have had problems with m1t... is that enough to scare ya into doin some resarch?

MB

[beachboy]

Yeah i'm not a newbie into

bodybuilding ;)
<- hint. :P
I'm doing my PCT with nolva.

[ManBeast]

Sesshoumaru is the one that

concerned me.

MB

[beachboy]

allright.
M1T is kicking in.

I just came back from the gym, i have some massive pumps. I'm getting some striae on my biceps :(

[DrSmellThis]

... I hope you

ordered some stuff for post-cycle and did a properly dosed cycle with your diet and training on. Methyl

1-testosterone is a very serious compound indeed.

MBThis compound or a closely related analog has also

been studied as a pheromone within the perfume industry (I could be mistaken about the "1" part). I tried a

small sample of it once, whatever it was. It had a mild, pleasant fragrance to it, and seems to have been derived

from a wood or some other natural material.

[ManBeast]

I'm not sure on that myself...

I've never handled raw powder. I'm actually not a fan of m1t in light of other compounds avaliable.

MB

[Sesshoumaru]

What kind of compounds?,

Gear?




I like you site, very informative. :type:

[Whitehall]

Gee, word is slow to get out - I

just bought some 4-AD poppers this morning at the local health food store here in Silicon Valley.

[Sesshoumaru]

Gee, word

is slow to get out - I just bought some 4-AD poppers this morning at the local health food store here in Silicon

Valley.

Well stock up :run: lol

[beachboy]

damn i love this M1T stuff. My

arms feel like they are gonna explode of these days :D
My striae on my biceps is getting worse too :(

[ManBeast]

DR. In comment on m1t or an

analog being used as a fragrance... A LOT of the hormonal powders I've used in my research have a very nice smell

to them... Do you have any explanation as to why?

MB

[beachboy]

Like which hormonal powders?

[DAdams91982]

damn i love

this M1T stuff. My arms feel like they are gonna explode of these days :D
My striae on my biceps is getting worse

too :(
Use cocoa butter 15 minutes before workout, and right before bed... should cease from getting

worse.

Adams

[DAdams91982]

Gee, word

is slow to get out - I just bought some 4-AD poppers this morning at the local health food store here in Silicon

Valley.
Poppers??? I would definately look into else where for your 4-AD... not to be ignorant... but the

poppers ended up being a joke... Take a look at www.1fast400.com (http://www.1fast400.com) will

definately find better product for MUCH cheaper.

Adams

[DAdams91982]

Does

anyone have anymore information on this? I was looking through some sites looking for supplements ect... and I saw

this at the bottom of a page:

"Important - ONLY for the California customers:

Recent changes to California law require a prescription for the sale of anabolic steroids and some of the

ingredients found in the product. Since we do not sell prescription drugs we cannot ship this product to

California residents. If you live in California and add this product to your shopping cart, we will not be able

to ship it to you."




http://www.a1nutritionpr

oducts.com/buy/ErgoPharm/ergo_1ad?utm_id=1&utm_term=1%20ad (http://www.a1nutritionproducts.com/buy/ErgoPharm/ergo_1ad?utm_id=1&utm_term=1%20ad)


Since almost all of the ProHormones sold as

supplements are Precursors to Testosterone, does that mean that Pheromones or chemicals with "andro" in part of

their names can't be sold it California??
In all reality, I cant see pheromones being a problem in

california... they are just trying to rid Cali of performance enhancing supplements.

Adams

[Holmes]

they are just

trying to rid Cali of performance enhancing supplements.

Because the Governor's personal stash is

dwindling. :D

[DAdams91982]

Because the

Governor's personal stash is dwindling. :D
lol... naw... i remember he was all about Deca, Primo, and

Test. He would have NEVER touched the prohormones.. not hardcore enough :rofl:

Adams

[beachboy]

The bitch started dboll on his

14th :)

[DAdams91982]

The bitch

started dboll on his 14th :)
Man... I bet he has no testicles... cause man.. that would have stunted the

hell out of his developing manhood.

Adams

[Holmes]

The bitch started

dboll on his 14th :)

Yup. And used ridiculous quantities.

But it all paid off, didn't it? He

basically owes his status as Governor/ Hollywood Hero to steroids.

[DrSmellThis]

DR. In comment

on m1t or an analog being used as a fragrance... A LOT of the hormonal powders I've used in my research have a very

nice smell to them... Do you have any explanation as to why?

MB
That I can't say, as I've not used

those products much; just a little andro in the past, preg and DHEA.

What did they smell like? (e.g., Woody?

Musky?)

[DAdams91982]

Yup. And used

ridiculous quantities.

But it all paid off, didn't it? He basically owes his status as Governor/ Hollywood Hero

to steroids.
Oh so true.

[ManBeast]

Steroids and ridiculous

genetics.... No amount of anything can "give" you peaks like that on your bi's....

MB

[Whitehall]

The

sublingual 4-AD poppers are not for muscle building. I find their best use is for extra drive for sex. They also

come in handy for workouts.

[DAdams91982]

The

sublingual 4-AD poppers are not for muscle building. I find their best use is for extra drive for sex. They also

come in handy for workouts.
Yes 4-AD works well for that... but it will suppress your HPTA function, and

not really recommended for that.

Adams

[Holmes]

The sublingual

4-AD poppers are not for muscle building. I find their best use is for extra drive for sex. They also come in

handy for workouts.

Any negatory side-effects (raised blood pressure, etc.)?

[DAdams91982]

Any negatory

side-effects (raised blood pressure, etc.)?
Well everyone is different... Like me my bloodpressure doesnt

even go up on M1T... but yeah... Blood pressure is an issue... which can be avoided with some hawthorn berry.



The only real thing you need to worry about is natural test suppression. Thats why it should be cycled....



Done for a couple weeks (2 - 8) depending on what you stack it with... then PCT (Post Cycle Therapy) with Nolva or

some Clomid. If you want some more info... there is a WEALTH of knowledge over at

www.anabolicminds.com (http://www.anabolicminds.com)

Adams

[beachboy]

i just finished my nolvadex PCT,

and lost all the M1T gains, pro-hormones SUCKS.

[ManBeast]

M1t isn't a prohormone, did

you run it all by itself?

MB

[beachboy]

it is categorized under

prohormones, i know it's actually anabolic.
I did not stack it.

[bryanm]

1 testosterone is actually the

dihydro version of boldenone
a actual steroid how much did you gain?
did you take messurements?
how many

weeks?
how many mgs?
how long was pct?

m1t blows me up big time but its mostly just water i find a

10-15 pound increase in weight with only a 5 pound increase in lbm

[ManBeast]

Funny how you take a

non-aromatizing compound like 1-t or boldenone, add a methyl group and WHAM, water-retention like m1t or dianabol.



MB

[beachboy]

first week 10 mgs
second week

20 mgs
PCT 2 weeks nolva @ 25 mg/day

I'm planning to do a sustanon/dboll/EQ cycle

[ManBeast]

Tthats not a great pct IMHO,

especially if it was liquid nolva. I'd reconsider using sustanon if I was you. Change it to Enan or cyp.

MB

[bryanm]

eq should be run for 12 weeks to

see maximum benefit from it.
dbol limit to 6 weeks tops preferably 4
sust needs to be pinned at least 3 times

a week to see good results imo.
you will see better gains off of enan or cyp i deffanatly agree run the test e or

cyp 1 week longer than the eq

[beachboy]

I know it's better to combine

it with enth. But i really want to try sust because some friends of mine made some really good progress with

it.
My cycle:

Injecting 2X/week. Monday + thursday
1-4: dboll 35 mg ED
1-12: EQ 400 mg/week
1-10:

sustanon 500 mg/week

PCT:
11-16: 20 mg nolvadex
13&14: 100 mg clomid
15&16: 50 mg

clomid

Little HCG doses during the cycle.

I'm not doing it this year, maybe next year.

[ManBeast]

Damnit.... Just because someone

happened to do good on sust doesn't mean that it works well... For the most part it's levels are determined by the

short esters... and prop 2x a week isn't going to do crap for you. If you are going to use it, at least try and

find basskilleronline's theory on dosing schedules for constant levels... that is the key to solid gains with

minimal sides IMHO... I really think people see sust as "superior" because it has many different ESTERS of test, not

many kinds of test... test is test is test is test... no matter what ester you put on it... Me I'm a big fan of

prop for short cycles and cyp for long ones due to the ease of handling the raws.

You also might want to

re-consider the sust/eq end timing if nothing else... I like to run test equal or longer than any other compound

personally.
MB

[bryanm]

running test longer then other

compounds works better its easier pct to come off of test then to come off other substances or more then one

[DefconX3]

lol... naw...

i remember he was all about Deca, Primo, and Test. He would have NEVER touched the prohormones.. not hardcore

enough :rofl:

Adams

Actually, I disagree.

The prohormones on the market have a lot

worse side effects then most properly used "illegal" anabolic steroids. Simple as that.

[DefconX3]

I know it's

better to combine it with enth. But i really want to try sust because some friends of mine made some really good

progress with it.
My cycle:

Injecting 2X/week. Monday + thursday
1-4: dboll 35 mg ED
1-12: EQ 400

mg/week
1-10: sustanon 500 mg/week

PCT:
11-16: 20 mg nolvadex
13&14: 100 mg clomid
15&16: 50 mg

clomid

Little HCG doses during the cycle.

I'm not doing it this year, maybe next

year.

EQ really is best for longer cycles. Also, throw in an AI (aromatise inhibitor (sp?)) such as

armidex or femara to keep the geno away.

Also, you need to remember that different esters will cause the

compounds to be in your blood for different amounts of time, your PCT should not start until all of the anabolics

are out of your blood, otherwise your body will still see that there is elevated levels of hormones and will refuse

to put your boys back online.




Steroid.....Time After Administration.....Clomid Length



Aratest...........................3 weeks........3 weeks
Anadrol50/Anapolan50........8-12 hours.....3

weeks
Deca Durobolan................3 weeks........4 weeks
Dianabol..........................4-8

hours.......3 weeks
Equipoise.........................17-21 days.....3 weeks
Finajet/Trenbolone............3

days...........3 weeks
Primobolan Depot..............10-14 days.....2 weeks


Sustanon.........................3 weeks........3 weeks
Test Cypionate.................2 weeks........3

weeks
Test Enthenate/Testoviron..2 weeks........3 weeks
Test Propionate.................3 days..........3

weeks
Test Suspension................4-8 hours......2 weeks
Winstrol...........................8-12

hours.....2 weeks

As you can see, it would be a much better idea to run both the sustanon and the EQ to week

12 then start the PCT on week 15. Hope this helps.

[Mtnjim]

Damn!! Steve Reeves and his buddys

must be spinning in their graves. They had to actually work for their physiques (and eat a lot of raw eggs).

:angel:

(BTW, had a buddy who was a big time Canadian BB (Mr. Canada) who died from cancer as a result fo

chems!)

[Holmes]

Damn!! Steve Reeves

and his buddys must be spinning in their graves. They had to actually work for their physiques (and eat a lot of raw

eggs). :angel:


:lol: Seriously. And Reg Park and all those guys.

Today it must be cake

by comparison.

[Mtnjim]

:lol: Seriously. And

Reg Park and all those guys.

Today it must be cake by comparison.

Exactly!! Todays attitude

seems to be "I want everything, I want it
now but I don't want to work for it!!"

[ManBeast]

.... Please please please

don't say that these compounds make it so you don't have to work... Anyone that's won any olympia title from

arnold to zane has used these compounds, and If you've ever watched "pumping iron" or "ronnie coleman: the

ultimate" you will know that these guys bust their asses...
It is true... I do want everything... I want it as fast

as I can go without killing myself. I've researched enough to probably write a couple books on the subject... but

I'm no expert. BUT I have busted my ass for every single thing I've done... There is no pill or shot that you can

take and just sit on your ass and *POOF* you'll look better. Chems can make you gain faster/more than your genetic

limit, but they won't do the work for you.

MB

[Holmes]

It's not that you don't have to

put in any work. (I think that was just a joke.) It's that, nowadays, the results can come a lot more easily

and quickly when you do.

So, in a way it actually is easier these days. That was the point (I

think).

BTW, Pumping Iron - classic. :thumbsup:

"I don't wanna look small!" - Lou Ferrigno

[bryanm]

you gotta think of your body as a

house the protein and cals are the bricks and steroids are the workers that determine how fast and big you can

get.

[DAdams91982]

you gotta

think of your body as a house the protein and cals are the bricks and steroids are the workers that determine how

fast and big you can get.
I dont like this... maybe imagine steroids as better tools used to build this

house... cause ALL the work still comes from you.

Adams

[ManBeast]

Like a hammer compared to a

nailgun perhaps? :D

MB

[DefconX3]

.... Please

please please don't say that these compounds make it so you don't have to work... Anyone that's won any olympia

title from arnold to zane has used these compounds, and If you've ever watched "pumping iron" or "ronnie coleman:

the ultimate" you will know that these guys bust their asses...
It is true... I do want everything... I want it

as fast as I can go without killing myself. I've researched enough to probably write a couple books on the

subject... but I'm no expert. BUT I have busted my ass for every single thing I've done... There is no pill or

shot that you can take and just sit on your ass and *POOF* you'll look better. Chems can make you gain faster/more

than your genetic limit, but they won't do the work for you.

MB


Yes, you are dead on,

steroids will do NOTHING and I mean NOTHING if you dont work your ass off. All they let you do is go above and

beyond the amount of intensity that you would usually be able to put on your body. They allow your body to recover

more quick. Im sick of all these people thinking that chemically enhancing ones self is a "lazy" thing, it really

allows yourself to bust your ass harder then normal.

[deepblue]

So what do you guys make of the upcoming prohormones ban in 2005? I don’t take that

stuff myself but I have considered it in the past. Looks like I only have a month before it’s like owning regular

steroids without a prescription.

To top it off I found out that

some androstenedione products are being renamed and used by the drug companies as anti-radiation sickness drugs. I

guess we wouldn’t want the cure to radiation sickness on the shelves at GNC.

Makes me wonder what sports supplements will be next on the list in the name of making new drug products

for the drug industry.

Will this ban affect pheromone products?

Anyone know?

[JasonLJS]

Yeah, I personally think it

sucks. If they keep banning all the new supplements that come out all it's going to do is steer people closer to

steroids. Personally, I say let people take what they want to take, ban the use of them in pro sports and let the

public use them as they want. What ever happened to our "freedom?" I don't think the ban affects pheromones at

all.

[TheViking]

During the weekend I was told

by a friend that he had found out that Steroids were actually legal in Norway, it was just not allowed for

professional sports.. I have no idea how steroids work though and if i should ever consider taking something like

that.. Can someone perhaps give a brief review of steroids??

[ManBeast]

Jason: To play devils advocate

to you, many of the compounds they are banning are actually steroids being sold over the counter as

prohormones/prosteroids.
Viking: PM me for some links with info and any specific questions, I'll do my best to

help you out.

MB

[TheViking]

Just sent you a pm, thanks for

taking time to explain this to me :D

[Surreal]

there should be two classes of

competition.....

Drug advanced....

100% natural....

Sure there is a fine line between natural vitimins

and synthetic but a committi could be elected to make the rules

[deepblue]

I've read a lot of really bad

things about prohormones as well. Anything can happen on them from skyrocketing cholesterol to kidney damage,

stunted growth, testicle shrinkage, balding, surges in female hormones (in males) in response to the prohormones,

etc. So maybe the ban was a good thing.

[chrome]

I

don't know if any of you have noticed or not but the FDA has banned the usage and selling of prohormone's. Most of

the prohormone's banned are used in products sold here at love-scent. Should i stock up and buy 200 bottles of

npa?

[Watcher]

Pheromone manufacturers have

special exemptions because it is an external application in a perfume / colonge product in minimal amounts it gets

away with it.

[Surreal]

hummm.. interesting.

Just

some funny thoughts about drinking....

[Felstorm]

I don't know if

any of you have noticed or not but the FDA has banned the usage and selling of prohormone's. Most of the

prohormone's banned are used in products sold here at love-scent. Should i stock up and buy 200 bottles of

npa? I don't think that there is enough androsterone or derivatives in NPA or other pheromone perfumes to

be used as "steriods". I take 1AD and it has a few milligrams of andros in each pill. You'd have to drink a whole

bottle of NPA to get the affects of one pill of 1AD.

Besides, I think the andro's in prohormone supplements

are formulated differently anyway.

[chrome]

Pheromone

manufacturers have special exemptions because it is an external application in a perfume / colonge product in

minimal amounts it gets away with it.
well i know the ammounts in pheromones aren't much but even though

they are for external use they could be banned. Transdermal prohormones are being included in the ban but then again

they can be used as steroids.