The art of "SEDUCTION"...how do certain things work SO WELL...

[handtohandking]

Now, I have a broad query...

Why exactly do certain things work so

well to seduce?

Of course, pheromones are ones judged by smell, and they send signals to the brain which trigger

certain emotions/feelings...

But why does something such as, say...soft music...work so well? It

certainly calms a woman and makes her comfortable, but what EXACTLY? I'm certain it creates a physical response, in

terms of hormones...

And speaking softly seems to have the same effect. It's kinda a staple of many guys

to speak with a "Barry-White" effect, and when I have done it unconsciously, I noticed great results. Soothing

factor? Do the vibrations cause sensations through the auditory canal?

I already know about touch being vital,

referred to in short as kino, as it releases hormones in women...

And in terms of visual, of course good looks

are important. What kind of physiological reaction exactly does, say, a nice body on a man send to a woman? I'm

sure a lean chiseled body would send different signals in different women than a large powerful body, and other

things such as a babyface compared to a hardened model-type face, etc etc...
Also, I heard good eye contact with a

female will also elicit certain emotional/hormonal changes, therefore it would also produce altered pheromone levels

in effect, no...?

I've covered what I want to know about smelling, touching, seeing, and hearing...Taste has

too much do with smell to intrigue me, although I know specific foods are considered afrodisiacs and such...

Any

comments? Pheromones are smell, and we cover them rather extensively here...what about the other senses? How can we

supplement the other senses we have to offer a total seductive package...? Any info/insight is appreciated...

[BDC_Concepts]

This thread kind of touches

into many different areas and topics discussed throughout, that is, what women are looking for outside of pheromone

secretion. Body language, attitude, personality, physical appearance, environment, history, time of the year and/or

minute of the day may work for or against you. Much of the above, in terms of finding out WHY someone is attracted

to differing levels of these variables, is extremely complex. Take for example, physical attraction. We are told

that symmetry plays a large role in this as women tend to view this as a sign of reproductive fitness. Personality

and attitude can work for or against you just as it can with us. Have you ever looked at a women and though she was

attractive, but found her LESS attractive after she opened her mouth? It can go that way for you too. It doesn't

mean that your a loser :), it just means this person doesn't respond well to the way your handle yourself. You

mentioned above the environmental factors that play into it as well. Why is it that soothing music can help to set

a mood? What is it about speaking softly that can sometimes help? Sometimes it helps to look at things in extremes

or otherwise broaden the view. Take the music for example: Does she know the song? What are the words saying?

Has she had positive or negative reactions in the past associated with the song(s)? Even larger, what is the rest

of the environment? Soft music probably won't help you set a mood in a mcdonalds. Same with soft speaking: What

are you SAYING to her? Would you say it is generally more socially indicative of romantic situations to be softer

rather than speaking very loudly? Could you imagine seducing a woman by yelling at her? And once again, what is

your environment?

Nothing profound really, but the idea I'm trying to get at is that things work together.

Variables come together to make or break you and I believe it is a combination of all of them that will dictate

results for the pure fact that we cannot rely soley on pheromone supplementation to do our handy work. It is the

human condition, that is, our abilities to comprehend and be social that dictate the overal result... well, unless

you can spray on your pheromones and have men or women jump you without opening your mouth :D

heheh.

Thanks
Matt

[handtohandking]

This thread kind of touches into many different areas and topics discussed throughout, that is,

what women are looking for outside of pheromone secretion. Body language, attitude, personality, physical

appearance, environment, history, time of the year and/or minute of the day may work for or against you. Much of the

above, in terms of finding out WHY someone is attracted to differing levels of these variables, is extremely

complex. Take for example, physical attraction. We are told that symmetry plays a large role in this as women tend

to view this as a sign of reproductive fitness. Personality and attitude can work for or against you just as it can

with us. Have you ever looked at a women and though she was attractive, but found her LESS attractive after she

opened her mouth? It can go that way for you too. It doesn't mean that your a loser :), it just means this person

doesn't respond well to the way your handle yourself. You mentioned above the environmental factors that play into

it as well. Why is it that soothing music can help to set a mood? What is it about speaking softly that can

sometimes help? Sometimes it helps to look at things in extremes or otherwise broaden the view. Take the music for

example: Does she know the song? What are the words saying? Has she had positive or negative reactions in the past

associated with the song(s)? Even larger, what is the rest of the environment? Soft music probably won't help you

set a mood in a mcdonalds. Same with soft speaking: What are you SAYING to her? Would you say it is generally more

socially indicative of romantic situations to be softer rather than speaking very loudly? Could you imagine seducing

a woman by yelling at her? And once again, what is your environment?

Nothing profound really, but the idea I'm

trying to get at is that things work together. Variables come together to make or break you and I believe it is a

combination of all of them that will dictate results for the pure fact that we cannot rely soley on pheromone

supplementation to do our handy work. It is the human condition, that is, our abilities to comprehend and be social

that dictate the overal result... well, unless you can spray on your pheromones and have men or women jump you

without opening your mouth :D heheh.

Thanks
MattThanks for the great reply...

I always find myself

looking for a clearcut definitive scientific answer, and I realize that it's not that simple. In the end, I could

be looking too deep into things. Why is a pretty face pretty? Shall I go the route of hypothesizing because a pretty

face means fertility and good health, which is important for reproduction...or is it just because she has a nice

smile? And of course, environmental factors do have a great amount to do with it, as little experiences throughout

life can significantly alter what you find attractive. I always look to the most basic element though, as there is

an inherent predisposition to prefer one thing over another, somewhere inside the genetic code...

[belgareth]

I've wondered about some of

the things you mentioned here and whether they are part of the 'civilized' portion of our thinking or if they are

somewhere in the 'crocodile brain'. The core of every animal's brain carries the same basic instinctual responses

to danger and sexuality and that is where pheromones do their work. What about other stimuli, like music. Snakes,

lizards and most other reptiles can be lulled by certain types of music, snake charmers are a good example. Most

lizards can be put into a trance by rubbing their bellies, for example.

It seems likely that at a deeply

subconcious level, we advanced, civilized beings are affected the same way. That's why certain music and touching

(backrubs) are so sensual. Our civilized behavoir is really a pretty thin veneer over our animal behavoirs. If we

can gain an understanding of that part of our reactions, seduction may take on a whole new aspect; approaching the

subconcious mind.

[handtohandking]

Our

civilized behavoir is really a pretty thin veneer over our animal behavoirs. If we can gain an understanding of that

part of our reactions, seduction may take on a whole new aspect; approaching the subconcious mind.
Exactly

what I was getting at. This whole "civilized" mentality, at least to me, is just a diluted form of our natural

animal instincts. Everything is still the same as it was 250,000 years ago for us; it's just that time changes,

circumstances change, the environment changes, but WE DON'T. We still go through elaborate courtship rituals

(flirting, dating, flowers, candy, etc), choose our lifemates (marriage), but our animal side suggests we spread our

seed as much as possible (divorce, infidelity, premarital sex). Our most primal goal is still to reproduce (sex =

childbirth, "settling down with wife and kids", "that baby is so cute, I want one!"). If we want to get even more

technical here, what is "love"? It would be rather terrible to translate "love" into some evolved form of natural

instinct, but...

[belgareth]

If we

want to get even more technical here, what is "love"? It would be rather terrible to translate "love" into some

evolved form of natural instinct, but...
You could make a good argument for love being an evolved trait

that was/is needed to provide a stable home to raise children, increasing the likelyhood of them growing to

reproductive age. If that is true, The divorce rate and the number of single parent families would tend to

invalidate what we have been saying about our animal natures though. Unless you choose to call single parent

families abnormal. In that case, the percentage of abnormality within our species is increasing at a frighteningly

fast rate.:POKE:

[handtohandking]

If that

is true, The divorce rate and the number of single parent families would tend to invalidate what we have been saying

about our animal natures though. Unless you choose to call single parent families abnormal. In that case, the

percentage of abnormality within our species is increasing at a frighteningly fast rate.:POKE:


Interesting, I never quite thought about divorce rate/single parent homes and their large increase in our

"advanced" society. Now that I ponder on it a little bit, would I be wrong if I said...the state of mankind is at

the most crucial crossroads it's ever been at RIGHT NOW? Centuries, decades, hell even MONTHS ago a lot of stuff

going on in the world today would be deemed unacceptable, yet I see that society is simultaneously becoming more

free-spirited and more accepting at the same time, which in the end can only lead to disaster. Mankind has lasted

this long because there were rules, there were guidelines, there was a structure. Yes, many things we consider to be

"rights" or "freedoms" today were outlawed or considering taboo even a short time ago, but let's get back to the

whole primeval perspective...We CANNOT let everyone do whatever they want, because there is then no structure, and

chaos ensues...

I'm still trying to form this whole hypothesis as I've just started forming it right now, but

it's like in the Bible with Noah's Ark all over again. I'm still not quite sure what I'm trying to say...Is our

advanced intelligence being overpowered by our own animal instincts right now, producing a volatile combination?

Prophecies of the Apocalypse don't seem too off at this time. Just like when the Earth was flooded for 40 night and

40 days, it's like as "advanced" our civilization has become in terms of technology, our mindstates are as primal

as ever, maybe even more so than in the past...Nuclear weapons + "grunt grunt me want me want" = NOT GOOD...

I

apologize for bringing up Armageddon in my post...:p

[belgareth]

Interesting, I never quite thought about divorce rate/single parent homes and their large

increase in our "advanced" society. Now that I ponder on it a little bit, would I be wrong if I said...the state of

mankind is at the most crucial crossroads it's ever been at RIGHT NOW? Centuries, decades, hell even MONTHS ago a

lot of stuff going on in the world today would be deemed unacceptable, yet I see that society is simultaneously

becoming more free-spirited and more accepting at the same time, which in the end can only lead to disaster. Mankind

has lasted this long because there were rules, there were guidelines, there was a structure. Yes, many things we

consider to be "rights" or "freedoms" today were outlawed or considering taboo even a short time ago, but let's get

back to the whole primeval perspective...We CANNOT let everyone do whatever they want, because there is then no

structure, and chaos ensues...

I'm still trying to form this whole hypothesis as I've just started forming it

right now, but it's like in the Bible with Noah's Ark all over again. I'm still not quite sure what I'm trying

to say...Is our advanced intelligence being overpowered by our own animal instincts right now, producing a volatile

combination? Prophecies of the Apocalypse don't seem too off at this time. Just like when the Earth was flooded for

40 night and 40 days, it's like as "advanced" our civilization has become in terms of technology, our mindstates

are as primal as ever, maybe even more so than in the past...Nuclear weapons + "grunt grunt me want me want" = NOT

GOOD...

I apologize for bringing up Armageddon in my post...:pWe can debate armageddon endlessly but I

don't really believe we are on the verge of it. On the other hand I do agree about our civilization being on the

cusp of titanic social events. Saying we need more rules and controls is really not the answer. Instead, it is the

result of (please excuse me) short-sighted thinking.

It's a common misunderstanding, we make a rule to prevent

something or to cause something. That improves our society, right? First you have to enforce that law which requires

an increase in manpower and increases the burden on the citizenry. With our current set of laws and requirement our

society is taxed more than 50% of production, the majority being on the backs of the poor and middle class segments

of society. Adding to that only increases disenchantment with the government. If you don't continue to increase law

enforcement manpower, laws are not obeyed. As people become accustomed to not having to obey the law, contempt for

all laws builds until you reach a crises situation. That results in anarchy and death.

Throughout our lives, we

have had more and more responsibility taken away from us by laws written to enforce behavoir. As the number of laws

increased the number of instances of breaking the law have increased. Look at the drug laws in this country or

prostitution or gambling or a myrid of other laws and tell me how well we obey unenforceable laws. I can make an

argument that the very laws that were created to stop the drug traffic have not only been a hopeless failure, they

have resulted in the proliferation of both organized crime and street crime. Even those who write the laws don't

obey them!

Another scenerio: Start at pre-school and teach children to make decisions for themselves. Teach them

right from wrong, give them plenty of time and love. THEN MAKE THEM SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS. Do it

every time and do it publicly. Teach them honestly and give them responsibility every day. Yeah, it would take time

to implement. Try it with a small group of say a thousand children. I'll bet that the majority will grow up to be

the best possible citizens you could ask for. As they grow up and raise their own children, those values will be

passed on, especially if they continue to be taught that way in school.

How does this relate to human sexuality?

Our sexuality is a basic part of who and what we are and what we have been taught all our lives. Many forms of

impotence, frigidity, infidility and family violence are products of our declining society. Sexual freedom comes

with a lot of strings attached. What better environment for love than a society free of the games and repression

that we have now? What business does the government have making laws about who you can marry, whether it has to be a

conventional relationship, gay, triads, etc.

[handtohandking]

We can

debate armageddon endlessly but I don't really believe we are on the verge of it. On the other hand I do agree

about our civilization being on the cusp of titanic social events. Saying we need more rules and controls is really

not the answer. Instead, it is the result of (please excuse me) short-sighted thinking.

It's a common

misunderstanding, we make a rule to prevent something or to cause something. That improves our society, right? First

you have to enforce that law which requires an increase in manpower and increases the burden on the citizenry. With

our current set of laws and requirement our society is taxed more than 50% of production, the majority being on the

backs of the poor and middle class segments of society. Adding to that only increases disenchantment with the

government. If you don't continue to increase law enforcement manpower, laws are not obeyed. As people become

accustomed to not having to obey the law, contempt for all laws builds until you reach a crises situation. That

results in anarchy and death.

Throughout our lives, we have had more and more responsibility taken away from us

by laws written to enforce behavoir. As the number of laws increased the number of instances of breaking the law

have increased. Look at the drug laws in this country or prostitution or gambling or a myrid of other laws and tell

me how well we obey unenforceable laws. I can make an argument that the very laws that were created to stop the drug

traffic have not only been a hopeless failure, they have resulted in the proliferation of both organized crime and

street crime. Even those who write the laws don't obey them!

Another scenerio: Start at pre-school and teach

children to make decisions for themselves. Teach them right from wrong, give them plenty of time and love. THEN MAKE

THEM SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS. Do it every time and do it publicly. Teach them honestly and give

them responsibility every day. Yeah, it would take time to implement. Try it with a small group of say a thousand

children. I'll bet that the majority will grow up to be the best possible citizens you could ask for. As they grow

up and raise their own children, those values will be passed on, especially if they continue to be taught that way

in school.

How does this relate to human sexuality? Our sexuality is a basic part of who and what we are and

what we have been taught all our lives. Many forms of impotence, frigidity, infidility and family violence are

products of our declining society. Sexual freedom comes with a lot of strings attached. What better environment for

love than a society free of the games and repression that we have now? What business does the government have making

laws about who you can marry, whether it has to be a conventional relationship, gay, triads, etc.Hmmm...I DO

see your point, even if it sounds a little bit...anarchistic...?

However, I didn't mean "repression" when I

stated that structure was the foundation that has led humans and the rest of the universe along on its path.

A

"perfect" system, if there is one, would mean eternal efficiency. Homo Sapiens Superior never has to become extinct

if we live by this system, yet it's basically impossible because I don't believe there is such a thing as

perfection. Even the universe we exist in, as close to perfect as anything can be, will eventually come to an end,

depending on who you talk to. Basically, to achieve this neverending harmony, everyone and everything must play

their part, as robotic as it sounds...

I think you misunderstood me on my point. I'm not saying the government

should put even MORE strict guidelines, take away MORE rights, be even MORE domineering...

It's just that I

believe our own society has evolved to the point where we can NEVER be content, do you understand what I mean?

People have such insane expectations to be as "free" as possible...free from oppression, free from unhappiness, free

from RESPONSIBILITY, free from REALITY...Many people have their head in the clouds, and I'm not saying everyone has

to be ultra-serious and dedicated to some social movement or anything, but there's a lot of BS going around, and

unfortunately we are ALL falling victim to it in some form or another.

I just think every citizen has to play

their role, and it is actually difficult in many ways especially living in a place like the United States, where

opportunity and the abundance of choices overwhelms the average person and confuses them..."What AM I supposed to

do?!" The LESS "civilized" a group is, the more harmonious it is, because they all play their role in nature and the

universe. But in our everchanging world we live in, our purpose is becoming blurred...

Just my two cents...

[belgareth]

Hmmm...I

DO see your point, even if it sounds a little bit...anarchistic...?

However, I didn't mean "repression" when I

stated that structure was the foundation that has led humans and the rest of the universe along on its path.

A

"perfect" system, if there is one, would mean eternal efficiency. Homo Sapiens Superior never has to become extinct

if we live by this system, yet it's basically impossible because I don't believe there is such a thing as

perfection. Even the universe we exist in, as close to perfect as anything can be, will eventually come to an end,

depending on who you talk to. Basically, to achieve this neverending harmony, everyone and everything must play

their part, as robotic as it sounds...

I think you misunderstood me on my point. I'm not saying the government

should put even MORE strict guidelines, take away MORE rights, be even MORE domineering...

It's just that I

believe our own society has evolved to the point where we can NEVER be content, do you understand what I mean?

People have such insane expectations to be as "free" as possible...free from oppression, free from unhappiness, free

from RESPONSIBILITY, free from REALITY...Many people have their head in the clouds, and I'm not saying everyone has

to be ultra-serious and dedicated to some social movement or anything, but there's a lot of BS going around, and

unfortunately we are ALL falling victim to it in some form or another.

I just think every citizen has to play

their role, and it is actually difficult in many ways especially living in a place like the United States, where

opportunity and the abundance of choices overwhelms the average person and confuses them..."What AM I supposed to

do?!" The LESS "civilized" a group is, the more harmonious it is, because they all play their role in nature and the

universe. But in our everchanging world we live in, our purpose is becoming blurred...

Just my two

cents...
In part, I agree with you. But the problem you cite of wanting more freedom, less responsibility

is exactly what I am trying to address. It is how we were taught! Unless we change the pattern and teach our

children to be responsible members of society, our society will continue to decline. Unenforceable laws remove

personal responsibilty for one's behavoir without adding consequences. As society grows larger and more complex,

attempting to enforce laws becomes more difficult and contempt for the law increases. It's a downward spiral.

[handtohandking]

In part,

I agree with you. But the problem you cite of wanting more freedom, less responsibility is exactly what I am trying

to address. It is how we were taught! Unless we change the pattern and teach our children to be responsible members

of society, our society will continue to decline. Unenforceable laws remove personal responsibilty for one's

behavoir without adding consequences. As society grows larger and more complex, attempting to enforce laws becomes

more difficult and contempt for the law increases. It's a downward spiral.
Yes, I understand. I've

noticed this phenomenon where: 1) Sex, violence, offensive material, and other potential vulgarity stays on the

rise...while at the same time...2) "Political correctness" also stays on the rise...

HOW CAN THE TWO

CO-EXIST?!?!

How can being "PC" and being sensitive to other people's issues be enforced when the amount of

offenses being thown around is greater than ever???

I agree that people aren't being taught responsibility. And

the way this government and society is set up, they relish that fact, as they take advantage on our crippled minds

with all kinds of BS. I know TOO MANY people who expect the world handed to them. I was in very unfortunate

situations the majority of my life, yet it's funny now, because as I have learned what my responsibilities are and

have taken action, in a lot of ways I am in better shape than my friends with: a stable family, two working parents

who make six-figures a year, had their car/college paid for, still live off them for money, food, and living

accommodations, etc...

My life experiences taught me to appreciate what I have, and unfortunately most people

take things such as being able to WALK OUTSIDE, WEAR YOUR OWN CLOTHES, BE WITH YOUR FAMILY, SLEEP IN A BED...for

granted,

[sikdogg]

Damn, you guys are deep...

[Friendly1]

Well, it's GETTING deep, at

any rate....

[camusflage]

Why

exactly do certain things work so well to seduce?
Okay.. Here's my take, based on extensive reading and

field research. Understand that my quarry is the 25-35 year old, so there may be some things tilted in that

direction more strongly than the general female population.

The most important thing is how you carry

yourself. If you appear confident, comfortable, and competent, you can go nearly anywhere you want.

Dress

well.. I wear a tie pretty much every day. Usually, it's something fun, but whether it's dressy or fun, it always

coordinates with the clothing. I can't say enough about shoes. There have been studies done, and invariably, shoes

are one of the first measures a woman uses when sizing you up. They tell a woman a lot about you.

Some things

trigger socially-trained responses, some innate responses. We like symmetry in all things, potential mates included.

An aversion to the asymmetrical in physical appearance is an ingrained response. Other things, such as an attraction

to someone with a flashy car, expensive clothes, etc are both socially trained (he who dies with the most toys wins)

and innate (someone with disposable income of that level can provide the best start possible for my children).

Pheromones are the ultimate in innate responses, something that is purely a holdover from our (arguably) less

evolved past.

Going to some of the specifics you mentioned.. Eye contact (or conversation, as I've often

called it) is CRITICAL. Being able to check someone out, let them know you're doing it, and not threatening them in

doing so (leering at cleavage, for instance) can be DEVASTATING. Even the same facial construction (position of

eyes, brows, mouth, etc) can be interpreted very differently between a head-on stare and a side-long

glance.

Soft music is all about relaxation and feeling at ease. Whether it's something that's familiar,

such as some jazz standards, or something that's more environmental, such as a babbling brook, they both serve to

make the environment a more relaxing one. Where one is relaxed, ones guard is down.

Touch speaks to the inner

animal in all of us. Whether it's a simple brush of the fingertips on the back of a hand or a preening gesture like

running your fingers through someone's hair, all imply an emotional closeness mirroring the physical closeness.

Even if it's something as contrived as falsely brushing an eyelash from the cheek, once you've crossed into the

"intimate zone" of being allowed inside the 1.5 or so foot boundary, it's something that triggers a very strong

response to the preening action seen in the animal kingdom.

Speaking softly is a means to an end. It's a way

of speaking "warmly" and without tension. You can do so loudly, but it's much more difficult. Again, it's about

ease, relaxation, and letting the defenses down.

Looks are a much more difficult one. While there are some

inherent things (smooth lines, symmetrical appearance), much of what people consider attractive is socially

conditioned. Some guys prefer waifish women, some soft and curvy women. Some women go for blue eyes, others six pack

abs. In some circles, a light skinned person is seen as a weakling--one who spends no time outside. In others, a

darker person is prjudged as of a lower socioeconomic status level who must work outdoors in manual labor.

[CJ01]

But why does something such

as, say...soft music...work so well? It certainly calms a woman and makes her comfortable, but what EXACTLY?

It´doesn´t always work well, it depends on the mood you´re in. Why does it work well on men?
You have to

learn that men and women aren´t really that different from one another. Sometimes you´re in a mood for that and at

others you´re in a mood from someting totally different.
And sometimes things `work´ not because but despite.

:p
Don´t think of women as women but as human beings but I have a feeling that most guys will never manage to get

past the crap sometimes :p

Another important thing-pheromones are sensed not smelled,not unless you´re wearing

an overdose!

[CJ01]

Oh and don´t listent o me when I´m not

with it :D