BWAHAHAHA!!!.... another pheromone ???

[surfs_up]

Where does it all end ? Today I took a sample of a testosterone analog marketed as 1-AD, chemically

1-Androstene-3b,17b diol. This looks exactly like testosterone with a double bond moved into an opposed position to

that of testosterone.

I took one 100 mg. capsule of the 1-AD and carefully opened it. About one tenth of the

powder inside, more or less 10 mg., was dissolved in 90% isopropyl alcohol. I took off my T-shirt and rubbed the

1-AD solution all over my chest and armpits.

There was an near immediate sense of being mentally clear. I

think this may have been the transdermal effect of the 1-AD. The aroma, if there was one, was slight, unlike the

strong scent of androstenone, this has a sort of musty vanilla scent.

Afgter it had been on three hours I

went to a restaurant, then to a bookstore, then to a vitamin store. I go to these places frequently and have a basic

idea of how customers behave in them on a Saturday afternoon.

The 1-AD may have done nothing and it is

possible that other factors would explain the responses. A sample of N=1 isn't adequate to form good inferences and

I won't pretend that it could. I only observed what I observed.

It appeared to me that overall other

people's attention was elevated or tuned up above the norm. Generally there was more focused attention.

Conversations sounded focused. The bookstore was quiet but one woman may have buzzed me. Or maybe she was only

innocently squeeezing by.

At the vitamin store everyone was crisp and knew what they wanted. They spoke

quickly and "on point". The staff got very efficient.

This has been different from other 'mone experiences

in that there wasn't the emotional load that the classic 'mones deliver. Also keep in mind that in 'mone

quantities, I had about 10 mg. of 1-Androstene-3b,17b diol on my skin, equivalent to a whole bottle of strong

pheromone product.

The mood or vibe was pure business, if there were a worker bee pheromone for humans it

might be of this nature. Would intrepid 'mone-nauts care to reproduce these results ?

I might add some to my

standard mixes and see where that goes.

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

hhhmm...1-AD being

used as a pheromone? I don't think that is what Patrick Arnold envisioned when he patented the compound.

At

any rate, if anybody wants to try and replicate his experience I have a few kilos of 1-test (not prohormone, actual

parent molecule) laying around. It should be interesting...

Also, it should be noted that 1-test and

derivatives like 1-AD are known to be skin irritants and a common complaint is intense burning on application. If

via transdermal route it will burn the skin whereas oral administration will burn the mouth. Further, only a small

percentage of people that take 1-test and derivatives have this experience but ALL WILL HAVE BURNING IF ENTERED

THROUGH THE MUCOUS MEMBERANCE. For example, do not touch your eyes or nose if you havene't washed your hands

thoroughly.

Bobby

[Bobo]

Consideirng its effects on libido,

this might not be a wise choice ;)

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Good point...even

just using i-prop should give about 5% absorption. Even this small amount will suppress and those familiar with

1-test derivatives can attest that the compound shuts you donw pretty hard.

Bobby

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

The offer still

stands to send some samples to whoever wants them...I'll make a quick matrix specific to 1-test to eliminate

absorption and in the typical doseages associated with pheromones. Whoever wants them need only pay shipping and

also post feedback on the forum.

Who wants some?

Bobby

[Bruce]

Chemo,

Is this basically the

same stuff as the lotion I got from you?

Bruce

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Chemo,

Is this basically the same stuff as the lotion I got from you?

Bruce


Not at all Bruce...night and day!

The lotion you got from me is T-4 which contains 4-AD (a testosterone

derivative). In terms of HTPA (hypothalamus/pituitary axis) suppression it is very mild whereas 1-test (a

testosterone analogue and isomer) is very suppressive.

It's a bit much to convey the differences between the

two in one post (we have well over 50,000 posts on AM just dedicated to 1-test) but the compounds are not even in

the same league as each other...no comparison...apples and oranges.

Bobby

[DrSmellThis]

Assuming there really is a consistent change in social reactions from applying the 1-AD, such as you described,

there are three possibilities:

(1) the 1-AD is itself a -mone.

(2) the 1-AD caused your body to produce

more -mones.

(3) the 1-AD is not a -mone, but is converted to one or more -mones by cornybacteria.

You

test these for possibilities yourself by applying the same amount as was effective for you alternately, on different

days, to (a) clean, dry clothes, like a jacket; (b) armpits, (c) wrists, and (d) upper inner thighs and rectal area.

Each day, rate your positive reactions/attention from women on a scale of 1-10 (1 = ignored by women; 10 = center of

attention and flirtations overtures) and record the application method. Try each application method several times,

and flip a coin twice to determine which method to use on each day. Then compare average reaction scores you get

from each application method.

If (1) was true, the average of the scores for (a) and (c) days should be higher

than the average of scores for (b) and (d) days. If (2), (d) would beat (a). If (3), the average of (b) and (d)

should be higher than the average of (a) plus (c). Other relevant comparisons could also be made, but you get the

idea, hopefully. Then, of course you'd have to report your results back to us! ;)

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

I

have been wondering about any pheromone type properties transdermal prohormones might have.
The increase of test

in the body and the dispersal of the topical into the atmosphere are both vectors I had considered.
I did a cycle

of 4-ad for a month and I didn't notice anything unusual in the behavior of others.
After another 2 weeks of

PCT, I will begin a transdermal 1-test/4ad cycle.

Also possibly of note are aromatization and cortisol

inhibiting formulations of 7-OXO/6-OXO.

My hypothesis on 1-test as a pheromone is that unless the skin

somehow converts it to something else, it will not have much of an effect since test does not naturally occur

outside our body where it could be detected, but instead as the byproducts that emanate from our skin ie.

-none/-rone/-nol etc.

Still I'd be interested in giving it a shot in the name of science however.

:)
Good points...but remember that the ingredients in a typical transdermal product have bacteriostatic

properties and will eliminate cornyformbacterial conversion (while still topical). However, you are correct that

the increased test levels will result in more metabolites being secreted (at the armpit for example).

Another

point to consider is that while post cycle the test level is nearly zero and thus the metabilite excretion will be

nearly zero as well...of course there are other pathways but the most prominent is through test metabolism. Now, as

a technical point, remember that 6-oxo is not an aromitase inhibitor but rather a suicide receptor inhibitor. Thus,

you will still massive amounts of estrogen circulating but it will not exert its potential (such as bloating,

etc).

IMO, the possibility for using 1-test derivatives as pheromones is limited due to the fact that it has

an unsaturated alpha ring. However, there may be possibilities for using compounds that are DHT

derivatives...

Bobby

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

...
After another 2 weeks of PCT, I will begin a transdermal 1-test/4ad

cycle.
...
BTW, what brand of transdermal are you going to be using?

Bobby

[surfs_up]

I am recovering from a serious

illness and heard that low doses of anabolics could accelerate the healing process. That's how I came across the

1-T product. I feel like 15-20 mg, per day is exactly what I need to regain normal strength, appetite, and mental

focus. It is necessary to pull apart the 100 mg. capsule and sprinkle about 1/5 of it under my tongue. The taste is

bearable but nearly disgusting, akin to soap. There hasn't been a burning or swelling though. I'm impressed with

the rapidity I can now get back on my feet and feel 100% alive instead of the pneumonia zombie that I was. This

seems like it is more than a physiologic dose but on the lower side of a pharmacologic dose. For the first hour or

two there is a definite "rev up" which leaves me hungry as a horse for protein meals. Then it mellows and I get all

my daily tasks done without noticing much, except that I am getting them done. I do notice that my visual/spatial

memory seems better too as it was when I was a young guy.
At my age I would notice a libido shutdown. Still

good there. Sexed out with a gal in her 30's for about 45 minutes of rapid motion bunny rabbit sex last night. Nice

workout, she tells me.
Are some of these 1-T effects because of the dosages bodybuilders use ? They're

talking about 100-300 mg., waaay beyond my range. In lower doses this molecule sure feels like an important medical

discovery. Really important. Does the FDA have any idea how many elderly people have trouble recovering from

illness, or have a condition of long term muscle wasting that most elders eventually will suffer from ?
1-T

may be a lifesaver in low doses. Too bad there's all the stigma and grandstanding.

Back at the

pheromone hut, I made up a small batch of 1-T alcohol solution and added it to a alpha+beta androstenol mix I had

and liberally applied this to my bod, followed by a squirt of Creed Tabarome Millesime (used sparingly, an awesome

men's fragrance, especially when you're up close and personal) prior to my date with the lovely Eva.



Before we go into our one on one workout, I did notice agian that we were having a great time, very easy

communication, with what felt like the added clarity+sharpness that I thought I had noted earlier in the day. Same

way after sex. Instead of rolling around like overfed larva we were crisply up and doing things and having an

intense discussion about fragrances and their origins.

Eva had to bail so I headed over to a place I like

to have dinner and know well. The waiter sharpened up visibly too, we got the order done with the absolute minimum

of dicking around.

Allright... I have to take into account the "confounding variables". We had almost

perfect cool weather when everybody's brain is working at its best. We're near a holiday and most people are not

as overwhelmed with problems. My own behavior may be different too and they're reacting to my increased clarity. It

is very, very hard to know without a good number of cases over time in all conditions. For now I place this in the

[possibly useful work related] pheromone box.

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

It

is so often in the bodybuilding world that the mantra "more is better" reigns supreme. The refreshing view of

sensible use is definitely noted and appreciated!

I see your objective with dosing 1-T and please allow me to

offer some suggestions and input:

Since I am not a licensed medical doctor and presently own a nutrition

company let me preface this discussion with the typical disclaimers: your mileage may vary and nothing I say here is

offered as medical advice nor do my statements imply inherent guarentees. With that said...

The majority of

users of these products are generally under 35-40 with goals of physique mesomorphesis and hence the feedback is

mainly focused on those particular uses. However, there has been some feedback from those seeking alternative uses

which is positive by nature and varied in application. I have long advocated the sensible use of these potent

compounds but this is likened to fighting the currents of the Mississippi river. In light of my conservative views,

I have worked closely with those seeking my advice. I offer the following advice for your review:

LEARN TO

"HOMEBREW"
Let me give you alittle bit of background on my life philosophy: KARMA. In a nutshell, you'll get

what you give. I've extended this to most parts of my life including business model. Although I owned a nutrition

company that would benefit otherwise the decision I made was to have FULL disclosure of how to make the product

themselves and for cheaper. So was born my discussion forum (http://anabolicminds.com) where free

speech ruled and innovation in idea was king. As trends came and went in the industry we were the ultimate resource

(and still are) in gathering info on how to do it cheaper.
For example:
$9.00 - 2 grams raw powder
$5.00

- Other ingredients
-----------------------------
$14 - 200 doses @ 10 mg

The advantages to homebrewing

are that you can guarentee content, quality, and future ability to do it again if needed.

To make you

homebrew go to http://powernutrition.net or http://1fast400.com and order your desired amount

of 1-test powder. They both have certificates of analysis for all batches and are known for their quality

materials.

Next, get some flax see oil OR PEG-400. I recommend flax oil as not only will it act as an

excellent solvent it will also provide needed nutritients (kill two birds with one stone!). The maximum amount

dissolved in this matrix would be about 10 mg/mL. Alternately, you can get PEG-400 which is the most efficient

solvent for hormones/prohormones. It may taste awful but you can get about 75/mL dissolved! Depending on your

requirements obtain either one...BTW, if you need a reliable source for the PEG-400 be sure to visit my forum where

several trusted board sponsors carry USP grade material.

For this example, we want our dose to be 10 mg. So,

I start there and then figure how much to make. Let's say you want 100 doses @ that 10 mg...well this means

you'll need 1000mg (100 doses x 10 mg). Where you go from here is dependent on which solvent you chose. Let's

say flax...if you actually choose differently I'll help you revise the calculations if needed. I would recommend

at least 2 mL of flax to take advantage of the nutrients so now we know the final volume (2 mL per dose x 100 doses

= 200 mL TOTAL).

Now wer're cooking! We know dose (10 mg), desired number of doses (100 doses), amount of

powder required (1 gram), and also total volume (200 mL). Now comes the easy part: mixing the batch! Add the

powder to a measuring device (measuring cup from Wal-mart or something similiar), add the flax seed oil, and mix!

That's it!! OK...maybe a small detail...if it doesn't readily mix simply heat gently and stir again. To do this,

either put it in the oven at low temperature (less than 150 degrees F) or boil some water use that as a hot water

bath.

Now you have 100 doses of quality 1-T for under $7...plus get some nutrients! ;) The benefits of

homebrewing I cannot expound enough...

DOSING FOR ALTERNATIVE GOALS
I believe you have the right concept

about lose dose anabolics to accelerate muscular healing (and related ailments) but need some basic information on

the compund being used.

1-test does not aromatize (which means turn into estrogen) which was a revolution to

bodybuilders! However, it may present problems for others. Remember this: anytime you introduce exogenous hormones

it will affect the HTPA. In the case of 1-test, it does not aromatize into estrogen but also does not convert into

testosterone. It may not be presenting now but will in the future become a libido problem. In light of this, I

would recommend a concurrent low dose of 4-AD which will maintain the libido while also accelerating the

healing.

There is an art unto itself about homebrewing 4-AD and the most efficient method is via transdermal

delivery. I urge you to visit my forum for information on this topic as one post is not enough to summarize 3 years

of posts! The easiest method is to get a bottle of T-GEL (blank transport matrix) and add the powder to it. The

even easier method is to get a bottle premixed with 4-AD. I manufacture these but don't think I'm biased

here...you can read on my forum thousands of times in response to members that it is cheaper to make their own.

However, in this case, it may be faster for you to get up to speed by just getting a premade bottle. If you are the

experimenting type I have thousands of threads on the my forum explaining how to make your own!

At the

minimum, add some 4-AD to the regime and see how much more your healing process is accelerated!

If you have

any questions don't hesitate to ask!

Bobby

[Bruce]

Chemo,

Is this the

stuff:
http://powernutrition.net/product_info.php?products_id=258

Minimum purchase is 5 grams

at $5./gram. Still a great deal though. If this is what you are talking about, I wanna try it.

Then once

you mix it up, how do you take it? Just take a spoonful and slurp it down, or what? How well can this stuff be

utilized by the body when taken by mouth like that? How many doses per day and for how many days can you take it

before you are wise to give it a break?

B

[Bobo]

Its a suicide inhibitor and

increases natural testosterone by being anti-estrogenic at the HTPA.

[Bruce]

Its a suicide inhibitor

and increases natural testosterone by being anti-estrogenic at the HTPA.

Bobo,

RE to which

one? The 6 -oxo?

Bruce

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Its a

suicide inhibitor and increases natural testosterone by being anti-estrogenic at the HTPA.
Allow me to

introduce Bobo...fellow ADMIN over on Anabolicminds. As usual, straight to the point and always technically correct

:thumbsup:

Bobby

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Bobo,

RE to which one? The 6 -oxo?

Bruce
Bobo was referring to the

6-oxo...not bad for non-bodybuilders!

Bobby

[Bobo]

Bobo,

RE to which

one? The 6 -oxo?

Bruce
Yes Bruce, 6-OXO as Chemo stated. This is also another product by Pat Arnold.

He created 1-AD which shut you down fairly hard, then came out of with 6-OXO, the first legitimate OTC product that

is similar to other AI's and SI's (exemestane, letrozole, anastrozole). Not a bad marketing move, don't you

think? ;)

[Whitehall]

Finally, a serious and useful

thread! I'll be back.

Mentioned above are oil solvents and alcohol solvents. I've often wondered about

which steroid is soluble in which solvent. Formal technical data seems hard to find.

[DrSmellThis]

I've noticed effects with an

ethanol and jojoba (mixed) base using regular andro (the Mark McGuire stuff) transdermally myself.

Alcohol

doesn't really inhibit bacteria growth, practically speaking, as it just kills the existing stuff and evaporates

quickly, making new bacteria even more empowered to take over where existing bacteria would have competed with them

before. (this is why Listerene often gives you worse breath) So the conversion by aerobic c.f. bacteria could still

happen with an alcohol base, or other short-acting antibacterial; just not with a dermal antibiotic that was long

lasting. Even in that case, some hormone typically remains in skin tissues near the surface, (depending on the

degree of penetration enhancement, of course) and often works itself to a sweat or sebum gland somewhere, and

eventually back to the surface.

I'm not a bodybuilder with a ton of specialized knowledge like you guys; just

an experienced gym guy and health nut. I'm just referring to the prospects of testosterone (or a close relative

such as andro) acting as a pheromone, much as I believe DHEA does.

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Finally, a serious and useful thread! I'll be back.

Mentioned above are oil solvents and

alcohol solvents. I've often wondered about which steroid is soluble in which solvent. Formal technical data

seems hard to find.
Generally speaking...steroidal molecules dissolve better in an oil matrix. However,

PEG-400 is the ultimate solvent...you can get base modifications (no ester) into solution at around 50-75

mg/mL!

Bobby

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

I've noticed effects with an ethanol and jojoba (mixed) base using regular andro (the Mark

McGuire stuff) transdermally myself.

Alcohol doesn't really inhibit bacteria growth, practically speaking,

as it just kills the existing stuff and evaporates quickly, making new bacteria even more empowered to take over

where existing bacteria would have competed with them before. (this is why Listerene often gives you worse breath)

So the conversion by aerobic c.f. bacteria could still happen with an alcohol base, or other short-acting

antibacterial; just not with a dermal antibiotic that was long lasting. Even in that case, some hormone typically

remains in skin tissues near the surface, (depending on the degree of penetration enhancement, of course) and often

works itself to a sweat or sebum gland somewhere, and eventually back to the surface.

I'm not a

bodybuilder with a ton of specialized knowledge like you guys; just an experienced gym guy and health nut. I'm just

referring to the prospects of testosterone (or a close relative such as andro) acting as a pheromone, much as I

believe DHEA does.
As you have pointed out, volatile organic solvents will do little to suppress c.form

bacteria as it will evaporate rather quickly. However, high quality transdermals will not rely on these and will

instead use emulsifying bacteriostatic agents (such as d-Limonene) which will persist for hours (around 10-15). In

addition, PG has been demonstrated to be an effective bacteriostatic agent and will persiste for around 6 hours.

And the list goes on...and on...and on.

If one were to make a simple carrier, not worrying about maximum

absorption, than a i-prop/IPM/PG mixture will do the trick...but this will not yield more than 10-15%

absorption.

IMO, the focus of application should be either transdermal flux or topical application. In this

case, you can't have both! One would think that transdermal delivery would leave enough on the skin post flux but

then what about overdose effects? Can you imagine dosing pheromones 100-500 mg at a time?? ;)

Bobby

[DrSmellThis]

You're thinking straight

here, of course. Another concern with absorption is the possibility of triggering a feedback loop which could

decrease bodily phero output, though no research yet supports this hypothetical phenomenon.

Essential oils can

also be a useful medium for pheromones, in terms of slowing their release and somewhat limiting penetration,

depending on the oil (benzoin being a good one in this regard).

Of course, there are usually two sides to a

coin. The advantage of minimal penetration is in keeping a reserve of pheros stored in the skin to be sweat

back out over time, and slowing initial atmospheric release due to the penetration. This process actually

counteracts the external OD effect you are referring to, although there are other ways to mimic this

advantage. One could even argue that this mimics nature better, as nature has it that pheros are secreted gradually

from within the skin. Of course, I am merely pointing out the coin has two sides, not suggesting that I believe more

in the side I just pointed out.

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

If one were to

target minimal absorption then consider other matrix formulations that are not oil based. The limiting step in

transdermal flux is the stratum corneum which oil and solutes dissolved in an oil matrix will transverse more

easily. Once across the SC layer there is no reverse flux (i.e. - coming back to the surface for

release).

Consider using water based matrix formulations as this will ensure minimal to zero transdermal

flux.

Bobby

[BDC_Concepts]

Ah yes, homebrewing and

hormones. I have done a little preliminary research on the effects of exogenous hormone usage and pheromone

production. The idea being, that typical pheromone seceretion as it relates to testosterone and its metabolites

should be altered by the usage of both prohormones and anabolic steroids. The extent of which I have yet to really

come up with a verdict on as there is much to consider, but a general idea would be that increasing your

testosterone levels will increase the level of testosterone metabolites which play a role into the secretion of

pheromones. Conversely, shuting yourself down through other compounds (1-test, etc.) would, overall, decrease

pheromone secretion. Fun stuff huh :)

Matt
BDC Concepts

[DrSmellThis]

No argument that water

minimizes flux. ;) We eagerly await your product. But whether oil fails to achieve minimal, reversible penetration

depends on the "oil". For example, jasmine EO, which is known as a fixative for the heart note, can be applied in

the AM, disappear, and then reappear with a vengance that evening during a workout. Whether this requires going

backwards over the SC layer is another issue, BTW.

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

As you have noted,

the mechanism of action will vary depending on oil (more specifically, the structure of the oil) but most will rely

on disrupting the organization of the stratum corneum layer. This disruption lasts for up to 2-3 hours but once

effect has dispersed then the window is closed...there is no reverse flux.

I'm not familiar with Jasmine oil

but suspect that the effects are noticeable by not only oil appearance of the skin but also through odor and/or

sensation on the skin. If I'm off base let me know...I truly know nothing of Jasmine. In this case, the subaceous

gland at the root hair follicles will "store" some and release upon exertion, sweating, and other normal bodily

functions. In terms of nutraceutical delivery the amounts are insignificant as we normally deal with 100-1000 mg

doses. It is well established that the surface area presented by the hair follciles when compared to application

area is very, very small. However, in terms of pheromones where doses are measure in the micrograms than mass and

small surface area does indeed play.

Let's do an interesting experiment! I understand you manufacture phero

products for Bruce so how about if I send some of our pheromone stabilizing agent matrix and you make some

samples...a few of your traditional units and a few using your raw materials in our matrix. What do you

think?

Bobby

[DrSmellThis]

Please forgive my dumbth,

Bobby, but what does your stabilizing agent matrix do again? As a natural perfumer, I'm hardly a typical phero

product chemist guy. I am scientific by training and nature, but what I do here is pretty artistic, holistic, and

perfume-tradition based. You guys do the hard science approach so well. :) Sounds interesting, though.

BTW, I

was talking about the smell of jasmine and other "fixative" EO's lasting on the skin. Sandalwood can be smelled the

next day.

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Well, it orginally

designed to be an ultra efficient emulsifier for our oil based fragrance. We decided early on that the matrix

should be water based so we wanted to tackle that portion first. In actual product development we found that it

stabilized the pheromones better than anything else "off the shelf" so we then tweaked the molecule to optimize for

pheromones (specifically, steroidals). Remember, we've been working with transdermal prohormone and hormone gels

for about 3 years so we had an extensive research base to draw from...and nothing else can touch this compound.



So, to answer your question: it is a kick ass emulsifier! :D You can mix water and oil 50:50 with only 1%

(v/v) stabilizing agent. What makes this agent particularly useful is that it is not only ultra efficient but also

presents a crystal clear mixture...even at 50:50!

We've applied for patent review but after we receive

notification I'll release the chemical structure...maybe even license a few people to use it :D

Bobby

[DrSmellThis]

Sure, I'll gladly try it.

I'll have to figure out how I can return the favor. Do you think it might have applications in perfuming?

[surfs_up]

interesting. Not a steroid

consumer by nature, when I looked at the bodybuilder sites for more data I couldn't believe the extreme use we're

discussing. Our little pheromone world concerns itself with milligrams and micrograms of actives, those wild men are

taking grams of 'roids and pounds of who knows what to physically sustain the demands of those 'roids.



It's clear enough that the prohormone business is huge. Somebody is pulling in a hundred million here and

there. That means the consumer base for the prohormones+ hard 'roids + supplements has to be significant,

politically, economically, and socially.

Given that, it is freaking unbelievable that there isn't any market

interest for low dose, mild body load prohormone supplementation for the AARP crowd. Seriously, those are the folks

who NEED it, the sufffer from bone loss, intellectual decline, muscle wasting, largely because their endocrine

output is reduced. Is this the time to think about mini caps of 1-T, 5 mg. or 10 mg. , enough to put a bounce in

your step but not enough to mess up your blood lipids or elevate your blood pressure ?

I tried a product once

called keto-dhea (also 7-oxo I think) and it measurably affected my Thyroid function and blood pressure although it

did enhance my libido greatly. Looks like small doses for shorter periods with a good rest phase in between is what

us adults need.

[CptKipling]

Ah yes,

homebrewing and hormones. I have done a little preliminary research on the effects of exogenous hormone usage and

pheromone production. The idea being, that typical pheromone seceretion as it relates to testosterone and its

metabolites should be altered by the usage of both prohormones and anabolic steroids. The extent of which I have yet

to really come up with a verdict on as there is much to consider, but a general idea would be that increasing your

testosterone levels will increase the level of testosterone metabolites which play a role into the secretion of

pheromones. Conversely, shuting yourself down through other compounds (1-test, etc.) would, overall, decrease

pheromone secretion. Fun stuff huh :)

Matt
BDC Concepts
There was a guy who posted some info about

the pheromonal implications of taking nor-test, they were mostly bad iirc.

It would be interesting if we could

find a cheap supplier of some exotic pheromone posibilities.

[Bobo]

7-keto is a metabolite of DHEA but

does not cause suppression at all. OTOH the amount of hormones to actually cause suppression is extremely small.

Anything above the normal circulating amount (4-8mg of testosterone per day for the normal man) and you are

suppressed. A small dose of Anavar (2.5mg of a weak AAS) has been shows to suppress the HTPA (1). So in essence, the

amount needed to take to give you bounce in your step will have an impact on lipid profiles and blood pressure

especially if used for the long term.

1. Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the

pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH,

Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust,

Manchester, UK.

[Bruce]

Yeah, although, I work out quite a

bit, at 54 I consider this stuff more longevity medicine rather than body-building supplements. I just want to stay

fit as long as I can. I have a 9 year old in wrestling camp this summer. I want to hold off having him kick my

butt for as long as possible. :-)

I've wanted to add a "Boomer Room" to this forum for quite a while now; a

place where middle aged folks can discuss not getting old. :-) Also, pheromone and romance issues for married

folks. Stuff like that.

B


interesting. Not a steroid consumer by nature, when I

looked at the bodybuilder sites for more data I couldn't believe the extreme use we're discussing. Our little

pheromone world concerns itself with milligrams and micrograms of actives, those wild men are taking grams of

'roids and pounds of who knows what to physically sustain the demands of those 'roids.

It's clear enough

that the prohormone business is huge. Somebody is pulling in a hundred million here and there. That means the

consumer base for the prohormones+ hard 'roids + supplements has to be significant, politically, economically, and

socially.

Given that, it is freaking unbelievable that there isn't any market interest for low dose, mild

body load prohormone supplementation for the AARP crowd. Seriously, those are the folks who NEED it, the sufffer

from bone loss, intellectual decline, muscle wasting, largely because their endocrine output is reduced. Is this the

time to think about mini caps of 1-T, 5 mg. or 10 mg. , enough to put a bounce in your step but not enough to mess

up your blood lipids or elevate your blood pressure ?

I tried a product once called keto-dhea (also 7-oxo I

think) and it measurably affected my Thyroid function and blood pressure although it did enhance my libido greatly.

Looks like small doses for shorter periods with a good rest phase in between is what us adults need.

[surfs_up]

looks as if the choice is

between getting old in an interesting way and getting old in a crusty way. One thing that pheromones do for me is

they allow for better communication with people half my age who normally shut you out as the old alien. Having a

wide range of people open up to you and share their inner lives is a good youth tonic. Too may people are age range

bound. They can only communicate with others in their narrow age group. Thats the beginning of social isolation

which is a damaging psychological condition. Pheromones and prohormones when used wisely, in moderation are a way to

feel like you still belong to the human race. I did happen to link up with a beautiful young woman with an

astronomical I.Q. who like to do interesting life things with me. Man, talk about the odd couple. Guys could not

believe what they were seeing. Young bucks were trying to get her attention, old men were sneaking glances right and

left. I have to admit that I felt self conscious as all hell. You hear jokes about the old man gets the young

bombshell but to experience the reality of it is another story. It can become a little weird. Other people are

seriously contemplating, what does that middle age guy have that I don't ? It doesn't fit the public expectation.

You quickly realize how much more energy a 25 yeal old has. You have to work your butt off to keep up with them.

They can stay up all night and eat greasy crap without ill effect. They want to go see stupid movies they think are

profound. I started to get a renewed respect for maturity and the wisdom of age, too.