Do the 'Inventors' Perform their own Tests?

[Pancho1188]

Hey, a revolution starts with just one post... ;)

Seriously, the manufacturers, sellers, engineers,

etc. should step up on this issue. I mean, it'd be hard to generate hard, scientific evidence, but at least to be

able to say that they took a normal guy and got the occasional abnormal reaction is enough to get people's

attention. Dosage, type of person, age, race, environment, etc... The reason that this stuff gets the "snake oil"

treatment is due to this fact. No offense to anyone, but a pheromone site has the typical "scam" look to it:

magical product, bunch of individual testimonies, and stabs at the insecurities and inadequacies of the ordinary

human being.

"Be more attractive! Get that special someone you've always been looking for!"

...or, "say it

with science!" (is that what the catch phrase was?)

I say you give people a free bottle of each product and have

them start posting their lives on the forum or something...everyone knows I practically do that. :rolleyes:

I

know that pheromones have helped me in the subtle ways that you can't really quanitify in basic scientific tests.

However, you could have people rate their social satisfaction or something before -mones and after -mones on a

10-point scale or something.

"Rate your satisfaction with social encounters before pheromones."
"Rate your

satisfaction with social encounters after pheromones."

Something like that.

That's pretty decent science

there... "85% of participants believed that their social encounters improved with the use of pheromones."

Sure,

there are lies, damned lies and statistics, but it looks good. ;)

It'd probably be helpful if people could

come up with more ideas to assist the producers in finding ways to help those who use these products while helping

themselves by proving their products are effective...

Especially if it involved free stuff for the people who

come up with the ideas (hint, hint :)).

I realize that the hardest part is the crapshoot of doing the Holy Grail

of pheromone activity: attracting women and getting them to be flirty with you. Obviously, this depends on visual

attraction, ovulation, amount of -mones, distance, body language, etc...but maybe by taking it back a knotch by

generalizing to "more satisfactory social encounters", you could at least get an easier base for measurement. Once

you have "proof" of that, you could move on to more intimate encounters.









"Bring me your

attractive, your unattractive, your confident, your unconfident...ask, and you shall receive---and benefit

from---pheromones." :D

[DZorro]

Hey, a

revolution starts with just one post... ;)

Seriously, the manufacturers, sellers, engineers, etc. should step up

on this issue. I mean, it'd be hard to generate hard, scientific evidence, but at least to be able to say that they

took a normal guy and got the occasional abnormal reaction is enough to get people's attention. Dosage, type of

person, age, race, environment, etc... The reason that this stuff gets the "snake oil" treatment is due to this

fact. No offense to anyone, but a pheromone site has the typical "scam" look to it: magical product, bunch of

individual testimonies, and stabs at the insecurities and inadequacies of the ordinary human being.

"Be more

attractive! Get that special someone you've always been looking for!"

...or, "say it with science!" (is that

what the catch phrase was?)

I say you give people a free bottle of each product and have them start posting

their lives on the forum or something...everyone knows I practically do that. :rolleyes:

I know that pheromones

have helped me in the subtle ways that you can't really quanitify in basic scientific tests. However, you could

have people rate their social satisfaction or something before -mones and after -mones on a 10-point scale or

something.

"Rate your satisfaction with social encounters before pheromones."
"Rate your satisfaction with

social encounters after pheromones."

Something like that.

That's pretty decent science there... "85% of

participants believed that their social encounters improved with the use of pheromones."

Sure, there are lies,

damned lies and statistics, but it looks good. ;)

It'd probably be helpful if people could come up with more

ideas to assist the producers in finding ways to help those who use these products while helping themselves by

proving their products are effective...

Especially if it involved free stuff for the people who come up with the

ideas (hint, hint :)).

I realize that the hardest part is the crapshoot of doing the Holy Grail of pheromone

activity: attracting women and getting them to be flirty with you. Obviously, this depends on visual attraction,

ovulation, amount of -mones, distance, body language, etc...but maybe by taking it back a knotch by generalizing to

"more satisfactory social encounters", you could at least get an easier base for measurement. Once you have "proof"

of that, you could move on to more intimate encounters.









"Bring me your attractive, your

unattractive, your confident, your unconfident...ask, and you shall receive---and benefit from---pheromones."

:D

How do you get to create so much posting, you already beat me too it. :p

This could be the start

for great debates on this subject mind aswell start with this post.

Phermones alone would not work, you have to

work on your mental state aswell as confidence, to get this to work. The way in creating confidence is by changinge

your body language too, some excercise would do lot's of goods aswell.

So people keep it coming :D




DZorro,

[einstein]

Most pheromone sites do have

some scientific stuff mixed in there. Every site I've seen mentions the 20/20 episode where they took twins and

gave them androstenone. They also mention a bunch of other magazine and newspaper articles. Hmmm.....I guess that

isn't real science though, nothing peer reviewed except a Winnifred Cutler article that doesn't mention the mones

used.

[CptKipling]

The only place that I know of

to find scientific evidence regarding pheros is JVK's site, unless you spend time looking on google and PubMed

etc.

Maybe we should consider some simple experiments with the forum members?

There have been attemps in the

past, but not on a grand scale.

Thoughts?

[DrSmellThis]

I didn't invent any of the

pheromones I used in Pheros, and just did a lot of informal field testing. I had experimented for many years

with some ingredients and had read up on others. Then I just tinkered with it for 18 months. But yeah if you have

one or a few unknown ingredients some kind of testing is great. The problem is to get funding, and universities or

corporations are usually in a position to do that.

[cuddlebear]

Bruce tested

Chikara before introducing it ... in fact we are testers for anything that is called "beta" on this site ... (the

test-ees? couldn't resist) ... WAGG was tested by a number of us before release ... JVK has posted info on his

preliminary tests with Nol/Rone combinations which led to SOE ... some of us got preliminary samples of Pheros and

the results from that testing were posted ...

If you are talking about studies such as those that

universities oversee, with more "controlled data", then sure, it's not a bad idea, but I think that the whole

"Pheromone Discussion" forum is a "test area" ...

With pheromones, I think you have these basic

criteria:

1) A/B testing (with/without)
2) Awareness of possible placebo effects
3) Looking for

consistency/variance of effect with different "targets"
4) Effect on wearer and its influence on the end

result

I myself will willingly be anyone's Chikara guinea pig ...

Seriously though, I think the

products ARE thoroughly tested ... the bottles are too small to show various lab charts though ...

Cuddles

[BDC_Concepts]

The difficulty lies in the

fact that results as they pertain to us aren't really all that quantifiable in most controlled scientific studies.

Most rate reaction to pheromones but not necessarily in the same way we use them. How do you judge hit count? What

really qualifies as a hit? What about approachability factors, environment, the personality and physical features

of the people wearing them? Of course, you can limit variance by using larger sample populations, but as pointed

out before, this is really expensive to do. I could write pages and pages on variables that would influence the

whole experiment and attempts at minimizing them would be quite difficult. There is the 20/20 study and a few

others that help, including the one posted below. In terms of pheromone manufacturers, and considering you don't

have the funding to run a peer reviewed study, companies have to be creative to assess results withouth falling into

the inherent placebo effects of a conscious pheromone wearer. Anyway, I can elaborate further if needed, here is a

fun study though :D

Pheromonal influences on sociosexual behavior in men.

Cutler WB, Friedmann E,

McCoy NL.

Athena Institute for Women's Wellness Research, Chester Springs, Pennsylvania 19425,

USA.

This study tested whether synthesized human male pheromones increase the sociosexual behavior of men.

Thirty-eight heterosexual men, ages 26-42, completed a 2-week baseline period and 6-week placebo-controlled,

double-blind trial testing a pheromone "designed to improve the romance in their lives." Each subject kept daily

behavioral records for 6 sociosexual behaviors: petting/affection/kissing, formal dates, informal dates, sleeping

next to a romantic partner, sexual intercourse, and self-stimulation to ejaculation (masturbation) and FAXed them

each week. Significantly more pheromone than placebo users increased above baseline in sexual intercourse and

sleeping with a romantic partner. There was a tendency for more pheromone than placebo users to increase above

baseline in petting/affection/kissing, and informal dates, but not in self-stimulation to ejaculation or in formal

dates. A significantly larger proportion of pheromone than placebo users increased in > or = 2 and > or = 3 of the 5

sociosexual behaviors involving a female partner. Thus, there was a significant increase in male sociosexual

behaviors in which a woman's sexual interest and cooperation plays a role but not in male masturbation which

involves only the man. These initial data need replication but suggest that human male pheromones affected the

sexual attractiveness of men to women."

[DrSmellThis]

Oh yeah. I did also test

Pheros during the 2 beta phases here, making revisions each time. Forgot about that. Thanks Cuddles :) If I got

funding or other support I'd probably test scientifically and publish 'till the cows came home. Research is one of

my professions. Maybe in the future, or say, if Stone wants to farm something out.

[Watcher]

I was involved in the WAGG beta

test - apart from that though we are the best testers for new products and we generate feedback which is useful -

its still a fairly small product area and there isnt a set amount of scinecetific test - but the pheromones do work

for a large number of people and have solid science theroy behind them.

[BDC_Concepts]

I was

involved in the WAGG beta test - apart from that though we are the best testers for new products and we generate

feedback which is useful - its still a fairly small product area and there isnt a set amount of scinecetific test -

but the pheromones do work for a large number of people and have solid science theroy behind

them.


The theory has never been the problem, nor the plethora of feedback from the members here

and on other boards who have used them. I just wish there was 100 studies there were replicated that said X and Y

pheromone resulted in highly significant results in drawing male and female attraction and intercourse with men or

women increased 10 fold etc. It is all with due time being that the members here are the forefront to pheromone

development and testing. As more people get interested and time/money is spent by larger organizations, we have

only begun to scratch the surface :D. Personally, I can't wait to bring out some of our new ideas and products to

the community!

Matt
BDC Concepts