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TRock
06-06-2004, 04:02 PM
hey guy, what's

going on. i'm a newbie here. i guess my first question is
do looks or mones a bigger factor? should a good looking

guy use pheromones or don't fix what ain't broke? i'm wondering if the mones will have an affect on the current

success i have or alter my success or increase my success?

TRock
06-07-2004, 07:56 PM
was this a dumb question or

something?

metroman
06-07-2004, 08:18 PM
hey guy, what's

going on. i'm a newbie here. i guess my first question is
do looks or mones a bigger factor? should a good

looking guy use pheromones or don't fix what ain't broke? i'm wondering if the mones will have an affect on the

current success i have or alter my success or increase my success?

Not a dumb question at all & it

has already been debated on this forum ad infinitum...thats probably why you aren't getting a more serious answer.

What matters more, mones or looks?...no definitive answer yet on this one. Personally I think, if used right, they

can provide an edge to anyone irregardless of looks...If you're really interested do a search...theres tons of

stuff on this topic...

Watcher
06-07-2004, 08:54 PM
A combination but with guys its

youre body that women look at and of course how well off you are. Younger ones are much more selective until they

hit 26 then its like well i cant be as selective, the body clock is ticking time to take any guy above a certain

level and settle down. Yes it has been debated to infitum i guess you could just settle for an average rounded lady

instead of a 10 ? women do the same thing with guys , the less attractive ones get left alone more. Pheromones well

it has been debated to infitum suggest you go back through all the old discussions and search.

DZorro
06-08-2004, 12:32 AM
hey guy, what's

going on. i'm a newbie here. i guess my first question is
do looks or mones a bigger factor? should a good looking

guy use pheromones or don't fix what ain't broke? i'm wondering if the mones will have an affect on the current

success i have or alter my success or increase my success?

Goodlooks and mones work well together. But

even if you don't have good looks, you still benefit greatly from wearing mones, but mones alone don't cut it, you

have to have a great personality too. And working out improves it even more.





DZorro,

Elana
06-08-2004, 06:51 AM
It's the whole package that

counts. Keeping in shape helps more than you can imagine. If a guy has great pecs, I won't notice if he has a less

than perfect face. But it isn't one thing or the other...it's everything.

Pancho1188
06-08-2004, 07:04 AM
It's the whole

package that counts. Keeping in shape helps more than you can imagine. If a guy has great pecs, I won't notice if

he has a less than perfect face. But it isn't one thing or the other...it's everything.
I second that.

As I said before, this girl was checking out my chest the other day and didn't seem to give a damn about my face...

:D

DZorro
06-08-2004, 07:16 AM
I second that.

As I said before, this girl was checking out my chest the other day and didn't seem to give a damn about my face...

:D

How long have you been working out in total ???
I'm only at three weeks now. So you could say i'm

just starting out.


DZorro,

Sagacious1420
06-08-2004, 07:22 AM
I second

that. As I said before, this girl was checking out my chest the other day and didn't seem to give a damn about my

face... :DUuuuummmmm, excuse me...my face is up here. :rolleyes:

Pancho1188
06-08-2004, 07:32 AM
How long have

you been working out in total ???
I'm only at three weeks now. So you could say i'm just starting out.




DZorro,
Well, I've been lifting for 6 years now...

Exercising regularly for almost 7... (started

with running)

A normal person could get to my level with about 6 months of hard-core training...but someone of

my size at 14 (5'9"-5'10", 130 lbs.) to now (6'1", 175 lbs.) would take...well, 6 years... :rolleyes:

I

fight my body type every day...I'm honestly probably about 20% bigger than I would be if I did nothing...I'd be

the skinniest SOB you've ever seen... :(

Sexyredhead
06-08-2004, 07:35 AM
Uuuuummmmm, excuse me...my face is up here. :rolleyes:



:D :rolleyes:

Elana
06-08-2004, 07:36 AM
Whoever thinks that women aren't

visual............... HA! :D

Pancho1188
06-08-2004, 07:37 AM
Uuuuummmmm, excuse me...my face is up here. :rolleyes:
Yes, if I were a woman, I'd

say that...

...but as a guy, I'm thinking, "Hey, you want to cop a feel? ;) "

Elana
06-08-2004, 07:44 AM
hey guy, what's going

on. i'm a newbie here. i guess my first question is
do looks or mones a bigger factor? should a good looking guy

use pheromones or don't fix what ain't broke? i'm wondering if the mones will have an affect on the current

success i have or alter my success or increase my success?
Maybe you can think of mones as adding that

extra animal magnetism to what you already have.

Sagacious1420
06-08-2004, 07:49 AM
Whoever thinks

that women aren't visual............... HA! :DOh come on, we all know that women aren't visual...it's

been stated on the forum so it must be true. :rolleyes:

Sagacious1420
06-08-2004, 07:55 AM
It's the

whole package that counts. Keeping in shape helps more than you can imagine. If a guy has great pecs, I won't

notice if he has a less than perfect face. But it isn't one thing or the other...it's everything.It's a

good thing I've got mones or I'd be totally screwed. I make Ash look like an Adonis. On a good day I'm a -4/10.

:(

BDC_Concepts
06-09-2004, 11:06 PM
hey guy,

what's going on. i'm a newbie here. i guess my first question is
do looks or mones a bigger factor? should a

good looking guy use pheromones or don't fix what ain't broke? i'm wondering if the mones will have an affect on

the current success i have or alter my success or increase my success?

Wow, in the simplest terms,

you have brought out the most complex question of all. That is, in humans what is driving our overall attraction to

someone. Is it related more to what we view as attractive, our pheromone secretion, personality perhaps? This is

up for so much debate, as pointed out above, but most people will not disagree that our status as social beings

makes us less reliant on pheromones as it does with insects/animals etc. This has been demonstrated in multiple

studies (check out scent of eros by JVK for some interesting information on insect/animal response to pheromones).

Overall, physical attractiveness is a very complex characteristic that involves a number of different physical

aspects (such as body shape, length of limbs, the placement and size of various facial features, hair quality,

symmetry of the two sides of the body, and so on). Yet, many studies of physical attractiveness ask subjects to rank

people in terms of physical attractiveness according to a unidimensional scale such as the following:

Low

<------------------------------> High
Amount of Attractiveness

Numbers may even be assigned to the scale,

and subjects may be asked to make fine distinctions regarding the overall attractiveness of others. Nevertheless, it

probably is apparent to you that a particular person often is attractive with respect to some characteristics but

not others. Assigning a single number to that person's overall attractiveness may seem arbitrary and artificial--an

exercise that does not accurately capture the reality of the situation. Furthmore, many people will state that

personality can strengthen or weaken one's attractiveness. To sum it up, pheromones are an edge whether you are

attractive or not (albeit in the eye of the beholder). Just like in bodybuilding, you can develop a great looking

body without anything, but certain supplements will definitely deliver that edge. The beautiful thing is that you

can try it out and if you don't see results or notice undesireable results, you can simply stop using them.

Clearly all of us enjoy playing with nature :D. Good luck :)

Matt
BDC Concepts

Sagacious1420
06-10-2004, 12:48 AM
Good post Matt.

Btw,

what happened to the rest of this thread? :confused:

Watcher
06-10-2004, 01:37 AM
Did a moderator delete it ? why

did they do that ?

Sagacious1420
06-10-2004, 01:56 AM
Did a

moderator delete it ? why did they do that ?Dunno, too much off-topic chatter? :confused: Like that's

anything new around here, eh. :rolleyes: :D

Sagacious1420
06-10-2004, 04:09 AM
Maybe the

mods could PM the people whose posts got deleted in the future. ;) The way it happens now only makes people

unhappy..I dunno , they may have to quite their day jobs just to keep up w/ the PMs. :rolleyes: :D

a.k.a.
06-10-2004, 05:18 AM
Pheromones make up for lack of looks

better than looks make up for lack of pheromones.

belgareth
06-10-2004, 06:04 AM
Did a moderator

delete it ? why did they do that ?
If one of us had deleted it, there would be little boxes saying "Post

deleted by xxxxx" Sometimes, when something goes way off topic the mod pulls out the off topic stuff and puts it in

Open Discussion. It isn't fair to the serious posters to alloow their threads to be hijacked all the time.

Sag

is right, if we sent a PM every time we took some action, we'd spend all our time PMing half the forum membership.

If you ever have a question about something we've done, you are always welcome to PM any one of us and we'll find

out for you.

Pancho1188
06-10-2004, 06:06 AM
If one of us

had deleted it, there would be little boxes saying "Post deleted by xxxxx" Sometimes, when something goes way off

topic the mod pulls out the off topic stuff and puts it in Open Discussion. It isn't fair to the serious posters to

alloow their threads to be hijacked all the time.

Sag is right, if we sent a PM every time we took some action,

we'd spend all our time PMing half the forum membership. If you ever have a question about something we've done,

you are always welcome to PM any one of us and we'll find out for you.
Yeah, I'm thinking my PM box

would be full 24/7... :rolleyes:

belgareth
06-10-2004, 06:10 AM
Yeah, I'm

thinking my PM box would be full 24/7... :rolleyes:
It isn't already? :D

Pancho1188
06-10-2004, 06:17 AM
It isn't

already? :D
Good point.

belgareth
06-10-2004, 06:28 AM
Good

point.
I hope nobody misunderstood that. The moderators don't have the ability to see your PMs or even

tell if you have any.

Elana
06-10-2004, 06:53 AM
Bel was just stating the obvious.

:D
Pancho is a stud.

jose
06-10-2004, 06:55 AM
Ever see that show Average Joe where

the beautiful/hot woman has to pick a average looking guy to date, she gets to know their personalities and is into

some of them. Then they bring in the hunks to mix things up. Eventually the women choose the good-looking guy at

the end, I rest my case.

Elana
06-10-2004, 06:57 AM
Yup! I watched both of those shows.

The "average" guys never had a chance.
But to be fair...I wouldn't consider the guys they picked for that show to

be "average" loooking.

Pancho1188
06-10-2004, 07:02 AM
Bel was just

stating the obvious. :D
Pancho is a stud.
I get no PMs from Elana... :(

jose
06-10-2004, 07:03 AM
Well they always selected the nerds,

fat guys (which always get kicked off first) then there were the average looking guys with issues. Elana- there's

already a Average Jane being developed, I'll be watching.

Elana
06-10-2004, 07:06 AM
I get no PMs from

Elana... :(
I can't handle all of the toe to toe business. You always scuff up my sandles

Elana
06-10-2004, 07:07 AM
Elana- there's already a

Average Jane being developed, I'll be watching.
Awesome! I love those stupid shows. :D

Pancho1188
06-10-2004, 07:09 AM
Yup! I watched

both of those shows. The "average" guys never had a chance.
But to be fair...I wouldn't consider the guys they

picked for that show to be "average" loooking.
Yeah, they should go down to the DMV to do their

recruiting... :rolleyes:




I want to go on one of those shows just to spite them...I'd be like, "I'm

nice, I'm honest, I won't go around doing crazy stuff, I'm not going to commit cutthroat tactics to win this

thing, I'm just going to be myself...I'm too boring for this show."

Maybe that's why I'm not on any of these

shows... :rolleyes:

Elana
06-10-2004, 07:11 AM
Maybe that's why I'm not

on any of these shows...
or maybe it is because you never auditioned to be on one of those shows. :p

jose
06-10-2004, 07:14 AM
The funny part is when they pour out

their feelings, while the good-looking guys are aloof and don't say much. Those guys she's intrigued with, and

even picks one of them.lol

Elana
06-10-2004, 07:16 AM
The last guy she picked was the

epitome of a dumb muscle head. The guy was amazing looking, but I wouldn't be able to take him outside of the

bedroom. He has zero personality, while the nerd she picked was emotional, warm, sweet and loving. He never had a

chance.

jose
06-10-2004, 07:20 AM
Is that the guy that lives in Tampa, I

think he got pissed because she dated some celebrity. You're dumping a beautiful girl for that reason? Obviously

the guy was there to promote himself, she told him right out he wanted to be an actor.


The last

guy she picked was the epitome of a dumb muscle head. The guy was amazing looking, but I wouldn't be able to take

him outside of the bedroom. He has zero personality, while the nerd she picked was emotional, warm, sweet and

loving. He never had a chance.

Elana
06-10-2004, 07:22 AM
Fabio of all people. What guy would

be jealous of such a clown???

Pancho1188
06-10-2004, 07:23 AM
I can't handle

all of the toe to toe business. You always scuff up my sandles
Nice metaphor.




I miss you so

much, Elana! I can change! I swear! Please, give me another chance!!!

:D



That's one interesting

thing with beautiful women...men are whipped because if you disagree or don't listen then they can just go and find

somebody else who will say whatever it takes to stay in good spirits with them...it's a gift and a curse. ;)

Elana
06-10-2004, 07:26 AM
Look how well I trained Tallmacky.

He was a wild tiger, totally out of control. Now he is a fuffy, sweet, adorable kitten. :D :D :D

KittyClair
06-10-2004, 11:05 AM
That's one interesting thing with beautiful women...men are whipped because if you disagree or don't listen

then they can just go and find somebody else who will say whatever it takes to stay in good spirits with

them...it's a gift and a curse. ;)


I think you have it sooo wrong 'boy'

Elana
06-10-2004, 11:14 AM
I bet Pancho agrees with you about

that. :D

franki
06-10-2004, 11:20 AM
:D ..........

Pancho1188
06-10-2004, 11:25 AM
I think you

have it sooo wrong 'boy'
As much as I appreciate being insulted...

I'd have to say that I said it

was only "one thing", not the only thing. Secondly, it's just natural for attractive people to have more options

in front of them, and therefore they don't have to be so desperate as to keep a bf/gf.

I can't believe that

anyone who has read this forum (you know, this one where many men ask how to get women as you smell the desperation

emanating from them and know that they will do or say anything to get a woman---I'm sorry, an attractive

woman) could say that attractive women do not have more freedom to be picky and let men come and go out of their

lives if necessary to find one that will treat them right. Some women---not all, maybe not even many...maybe just a

few---are so used to being put on a pedestal that they can accept no less than worship from a man. Now, in my

opinion that's messed up, but if they can get away with it then who's fault is that?

Like I said, that's

one interesting thing about attractive women...they have more options, and therefore are susceptible to such

things. That doesn't mean that they will do that...but they're more likely than unattractive people. How

much crap will you see people who think they're unattractive put up with before they'd leave someone? A lot...

How much crap do you think Elana would put up with? Huh?

Now, I'm not touching deep, meaningful

relationships but only potential ones. People will put up with a load of crap no matter who they are when they're

in love.

Elana
06-10-2004, 11:29 AM
How much crap do you think

Elana would put up with? Huh?

TRY ME!!!!! Muhahahahahahaha :D :D

Pancho1188
06-10-2004, 11:40 AM
TRY ME!!!!!

Muhahahahahahaha :D :DSee? :D






Jerry: So George...remember when I told you Nikki gets

whatever she wants? We are at the movies last night. It's sold out. Nikki goes and talks to the manager. Right

in.

George: Beautiful women. You know they could get away with murder. You never she any of them lift anything

over three pounds. They get whatever they want whenever they want it . You can't stop them.

Jerry: She's like

a beautiful Godzilla.

George: And I'm thousands of fleeing Japanese.

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 11:58 AM
Nice banner ad! But you forgot

to make it flash. :rolleyes:

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 12:26 PM
I agree that finding a truly

appreciative, humble, giving, and respectful "beautiful" woman can be a challenge. I'm so used to, ahem, "queenly"

behavior (Think opposite to those qualities for my definition.) I've come to expect it. For example, after 3 very

good recent conversations, I invited three pretty women to my gig last night, knowing that pretty women tend to BS

you and stand people up, and I probably wouldn't be torn for any attention. I had treated each very well,

gentlemanly, and in earnest. I had not given the expectation that it was a "romantic date", so I wasn't mistreating

them in my mind. All 3 said they'd be there and acted excited. None showed. Next time I'll invite 10 or more and

see if one appreciates the invite enough to stick to her word, until I figure out the actual ratio to employ. :D Of

course here in Oregon, where the obesity rate is the highest in the nation (moreso among women, such that you often

see rail-thin, "non-alpha" guys with very large females, presumably because truly height to weight proportionate

women won't have them), very average looking slender women tend to act just as "queenly," if not more. Power

corrupts.

JustPeachy
06-10-2004, 12:41 PM
I agree

that finding a truly appreciative, humble, giving, and respectful "beautiful" woman can be a challenge. I'm so used

to, ahem, "queenly" behavior (think opposite to those qualities) I've come to expect it. For example, after 3 very

good recent conversations, I invited three pretty women to my gig last night, knowing that pretty women tend to BS

you and stand people up, and I wouldn't be torn for attention. All 3 said they'd be there and acted excited. None

of them showed. I had treated each very well, gentlemanly, and in earnest (no I had not given the expectation that

it was a romantic date). Next time I'll invite 10 or more and see if one appreciates the invite enough to stick to

her word, until I figure out the actual ratio to employ. :D Of course here in Oregon, where the obesity rate is the

highest in the nation, very average looking non-obese women tend to act just as "queenly".
ACK! Where did

that puke icon go?? :eek: :confused:

Yeah, so attractive people have more options. No doubt about it. We see it

all around. But the above description makes me think you oughta buy a dog instead. I'm hoping it just came off

that way. But still. Much as I kid you, DST, I'm apalled at the qualities you require. What happened to

intelligent, wise, good-natured, capable, independent, kind, or respected (as opposed to respectful - not that

that's a bad thing)? Every quality you mention bespeaks a good pet far more than a fully-functioning, vital woman.

Real Queens are good. Make like a King. (Didn't have this convo, already?)

KittyClair
06-10-2004, 12:50 PM
So what you are saying is

that Beautiful, Attractive women love Men, ahem, Boys that are wuzzes with no spine, no self pride or

worth.

I see.


and Dr ST, I was going to put D, but I dont want to insult you,


not yet.

;)


Women will stand you up, People will stand you up...its no big deal, it has nothing to do with them

being Beauitful...its to do with society, there's always that Bullshit politness to ones face. 'oh yes dear, Id

love to come to your gig'..and then never turn up...Its not queeny, its life. Its what most people will do if they

dont know yo to well. Me I'll jsut say "No I'm not interested in your stupid show, I might turn up to say hello

though, if...I have nothing else to do"

DZorro
06-10-2004, 12:54 PM
So what you are

saying is that Beautiful, Attractive women love Men, ahem, Boys that are wuzzes with no spine, no self pride or

worth.

I see.


and Dr ST, I was going to put D, but I dont want to insult you,


not yet. ;)




Women will stand you up, People will stand you up...its no big deal, it has nothing to do with them being

Beauitful...its to do with society, there's always that Bullshit politness to ones face. 'oh yes dear, Id love to

come to your gig'..and then never turn up...Its not queeny, its life. Its what most people will do if they dont

know yo to well. Me I'll jsut say "No I'm not interested in your stupid show, I might turn up to say hello though,

if...I have nothing else to do"


I like your style, :D



DZorro,

Elana
06-10-2004, 12:55 PM
She is adorable! :)

JustPeachy
06-10-2004, 12:59 PM
Let's give up some rep for

Miss Kitty!

Elana
06-10-2004, 01:01 PM
I am maxed out on the Kitty. :D

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 01:05 PM
Maybe you misunderstood me.

Maybe I ought to buy a dog instead. I don't know. Maybe you and I have a different idea of what a

"fully-functioning, vital woman" is, or what a "real queen" might be, other than the ruler of a country.

Those

are just some qualities I like in people that are relevant to the point I was trying to make.

But anyone who

cannot be respectful of me can take a hike! The same goes for anyone that takes without giving, thinks their shit

doesn't stink, thinks that everyone owes them worship without them having to give in return, and takes my love and

other gifts for granted. I think that covers all my "puke evoking," "appaling" expectations. Those are just basics,

and don't indicate I would be attracted to that person as a partner. For that I need the intelligence, wisdom,

capable, good-naturedness, etc.

belgareth
06-10-2004, 01:10 PM
I just gave her points for

that. It is in large part what the man is willing to tolerate. The more of such nonsense you put up with, the more

you'll get.

JustPeachy
06-10-2004, 01:14 PM
Maybe you

misunderstood me. Maybe I ought to buy a dog instead. I don't know. Maybe you and I have a different idea of what a

"fully-functioning, vital woman" is, or what a "real queen" might be, other than the ruler of a country.

Those

are just some qualities I like in people that are relevant to the point I was trying to make.

But anyone who

cannot be respectful of me can take a hike! The same goes for anyone that takes without giving, thinks their shit

doesn't stink, thinks that everyone owes them worship without them having to give in return, and takes my love and

other gifts for granted. I think that covers all my "puke evoking," "appaling" expectations. Those are just basics,

and don't indicate I would be attracted to that person as a partner. For that I need the intelligence, wisdom,

capable, good-naturedness, etc.
I said I was HOPING that's just the way it came off, right?

Now,

let's all join in a rousing chorus of the Poo Poo Song! :D

KittyClair
06-10-2004, 01:16 PM
Yeah you sound like a riot,

inviting Beautiful women to your gig for some self centered test of worth on that person.

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 01:21 PM
Is being insulting, with

however much subtlety, queenly? It depends on what one wants to be queen of.

CptKipling
06-10-2004, 01:21 PM
Yeah you

sound like a riot, inviting Beautiful women to your gig for some self centered test of worth on that person.


Cute ;)

As if women don't test at all.

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 01:29 PM
You sound like a riot too,

especially since you know why I do things without asking, and tell strangers their gigs are "stupid". For the

benefit of others who don't have your all-seeingness, though, I invited them because I liked them, and because it

is less threatening way to get to know people to invite them to a public event. The fact that I invited one or two

more that I would have in the past for concern over how I would divide my time was merely a pragmatic tip of my hat

to reality that proved correct.

JustPeachy
06-10-2004, 01:31 PM
Cute ;)



As if women don't test at all.
Hold up. Go here:

http://http://66.45.239.227/forum/showthread.php?t=1

0514 (http://http://66.45.239.227/forum/showthread.php?t=10514)

Of COURSE we do! And that guy will score well initially, just for having a clue. And then again, for

his rapt attention. DST came off in that one post like he was doing job interviews, and then was upset because they

didn't drag themselves out of their homes to go be in the audience for the Wonders of DST Show right off. Totally

opposite approach, totally different reaction, even in print.

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 01:38 PM
Peachy, that is really a bit

unfair, not to mention inaccurate, to read all that attitude into my post. I think you are reacting to something

else and reading the worst possible meanings into it. Please! "drag themselves out"?? These are people who enjoyed

my company and expressed a genuine interest and excitement in the type of music. It never was about me. But you

weren't there anyway. Give me a break.

KittyClair
06-10-2004, 01:44 PM
For example, after 3

very good recent conversations, I invited three pretty women to my gig last night, knowing that pretty women tend to

BS you and stand people up,


Next time I'll invite 10 or more and see if one appreciates the

invite enough to stick to her word, until I figure out the actual ratio to employ.


:rolleyes:



dont take it personaly, but I would say that to any dunce trying to invite me to their cheesy

gig...

So I meet this guy at a friends cooktail party and he tries to impress me "Hey babe come to my

gig"

of course I'm gonna say "I dont want to go to your stupid ass gig"

Elana
06-10-2004, 01:45 PM
of course I'm gonna say "I

dont want to go to your stupid ass gig"
Gotta love an honest woman :D

belgareth
06-10-2004, 01:50 PM
Gotta love an

honest woman :D
Honest yes. But to the point of unnecessary rudeness?

Elana
06-10-2004, 01:55 PM
Honest yes. But to

the point of unnecessary rudeness?
Bel..I am going to quote you because you made a good point in a

previous post...


It is in large part what the man is willing to tolerate. The more of such nonsense you

put up with, the more you'll get.
If the guy opts to stick around after that remark, then he had better

get used to it.

Sexyredhead
06-10-2004, 01:57 PM
Bel..I am going

to quote you because you made a good point in a previous post...


If the guy opts to stick around after

that remark, then he had better get used to it.


And if he put up with me being that rude without

saying/doing something about it, I don't want him anyway.

CptKipling
06-10-2004, 02:00 PM
I couldn't agree more.



Sisters certainly doin' it for themselves.

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 02:01 PM
Actually I do like honesty as

well -- even ugly, superficial, man-hating honesty from people who insult randomly and disrespect rather than make

better points -- compared to the alternative. But I have to give due credit to the honesty part. No one owes it to

me to be nice. People seem to be jockeying for power here, and insulting is a way to impress some people.

belgareth
06-10-2004, 02:05 PM
Bel..I am going to

quote you because you made a good point in a previous post...


If the guy opts to stick around after that

remark, then he had better get used to it.
It still doesn't excuse the original rudeness.

CptKipling
06-10-2004, 02:05 PM
People seem

to be jockeying for power here, and insulting is a way to impress some people.
That's exactly how it came

off.

No one is saying anybody has to agree with anybody else, but there's critisism and, well, mockery.

belgareth
06-10-2004, 02:06 PM
Actually I

do like honesty as well -- even ugly, superficial, man-hating honesty from people who insult randomly and disrespect

rather than make better points -- compared to the alternative. But I have to give due credit to the honesty part. No

one owes it to me to be nice. People seem to be jockeying for power here, and insulting is a way to impress some

people.
Insulting is percieved by some as a means to impress. Doesn't mean it works.

Elana
06-10-2004, 02:11 PM
It still doesn't

excuse the original rudeness.
I personally would never say that to someone. It's just not my style, but I

think Kitty's point was that if she had no intention of going, she would just say so, rather than string someone

along pretending that she will show up when she knows that she has no intention of doing so.

belgareth
06-10-2004, 02:13 PM
I personally would

never say that to someone. It's just not my style, but I think Kitty's point was that if she had no intention of

going, she would just say so, rather than string someone along pretending that she will show up when she knows that

she has no intention of doing so.
Since she chose to take the Doc's statements at face value, even adding

a bit of her own interpretation, I saw little choice but to take hers the same way. She was inexcusably rude to the

doc.

tallmacky
06-10-2004, 02:19 PM
I can't stop laughing. This is

too funny. :D

Elana
06-10-2004, 02:22 PM
I baked brownies for everyone. No

more fighting. :)

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 02:24 PM
Sometimes Bel, when jockeying

for power, people even encourage others to insult for them; because they know it wouldn't work as well for them to

do it.

The "reputation function" should also be teaching us something about how people jockey for power behind

the scenes when they have the energy for it.

Elana
06-10-2004, 02:25 PM
To be honest, I skimmed the thread

and missed a lot of stuff.
I wasn't trying to insult anyone here.

franki
06-10-2004, 02:25 PM
The

"reputation function" should also be teaching us something about how people jockey for power behind the scenes when

they have the energy for it.
The rep thing is worthless, cause everyone and his mom have a good

reputation now.. :D ;)

belgareth
06-10-2004, 02:26 PM
Sometimes

Bel, when jockeying for power, people even encourage others to insult for them; because they know it wouldn't work

as well for them to do it.

The "reputation function" should also be teaching us something about how people

jockey for power behind the scenes when they have the energy for it.Yeah, I saw it a lot working in the

corporate world. It sickened me then and it does the same now. I'll encourage debate and an infinite variety of

opinions, even bluntness but have to draw the line somewhere.

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 02:33 PM
I can't stop

laughing. This is too funny. :D Believe me, TM, I think it's funny too. :) Thanks.

JustPeachy
06-10-2004, 03:57 PM
Peachy,

that is really a bit unfair, not to mention inaccurate, to read all that attitude into my post. I think you are

reacting to something else and reading the worst possible meanings into it. Please! "drag themselves out"?? These

are people who enjoyed my company and expressed a genuine interest and excitement in the type of music. It never was

about me. But you weren't there anyway. Give me a break.
Oh Pu-LEEZE, DST. We were talking very

specifically about the way the thing came off in your original post. Not what you meant, not what you might have

intended to add later, not your exact tone of voice when you said what you said to those women, not ANYTHING else.

Chill out, already. Despite joking around here, I don't hate men in the least, even when they annoy me at times.

Love 'em all to death, even you when you're having a bad day :) , and I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt.

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 09:43 PM
I'm unclear, and have mixed

feelings about your last post, as much as I love kissing and making up. Not to single you out, Peachy, but did you

not overreact and attack, even relative to my original language? Maybe reread all the language of your first post

carefully, not to mention the 2nd (or 3rd? I forget) one? I expected some backlash. The original experience I

wrote about was indeed painful, and I was outspoken in a little bit of a jaded way about a sad thing I still believe

to be the case in our culture; but think I was more "chilled out" than the triggered responses.

For my part, I

have some anger toward many women; though definitely no smallness of heart or ill intent where they are concerned. I

see it mostly as the other side of my "dogged" open-heartedness, frankly (so maybe your dog relationship idea for me

is good after all). But the shit and mistrust flies both ways on this board, not just from men to women. It's not

all "kidding around". Some men sometimes "hang out and take it", most probably because they want female approval, or

acceptance. That is their duly noted weakness, I believe, partly by nature. That this want typically invites more

self-righteous scorn nauseates me, even if it's just a brute fact of monkey life. If they supplicate, they "invite"

abuse. When a man feels needy that way, and acts on it, he gives up his power. (Though I don't think I felt needy,

I "supplicated" myself when I remarked that what's-her-name's photo was sexy without her having to "work for" the

compliment -- inviting abuse -- and sure enough, there it came. An opportunity for someone to gain power. I even

thought, "Oh, shit!" to myself right after posting. I guess my "giving up personal power" made the person feel safe

to attack. The photo now does less than nothing for me, BTW!) So the resulting abuse from inappropriately

power-conscious women is his fault? Different responsibilities are at stake. Humans are certainly vulnerable and

needy by the dictates of nature, as much as they are strong. At "best" we hide our emotional weaknesses. Sometimes a

man (or woman) chooses to keep his heart open in general, despite expected injuries, because he is trying to create

a certain kind of world. The expected "dominance and defeat" are temporary and ego-related, he hopes. But whether

open or defended, there is an inherent potential for abuse which is not lost on the emotionally clever. That

knowledge can be used for ill, or for healing.

It is not about any one person on a Tallmackian throne. There

are just a lot of problems in our culture with gender relations, and this forum is no exception, as you ladies have

pointed out. In response, I sprang teeth and defended a woman from gender-related bashing just a couple days ago, as

I said I would (but the thread was largely deleted, thankfully). There has to be a way for men to be fully men and

women to be fully women without emotional violence. Sure, it takes a nonexistent level of trust to own the pain

(e.g., anger, hate) that is occuring as a matter of course, and people have to admit they act just like the bald

monkeys they are. But once this dynamic would be deciphered on a small scale, it would be straightforward to apply

it to improving outside relationships, and the rest of culture. Of course implemention would need generations.

JustPeachy
06-10-2004, 10:44 PM
Awww, doc. C'mon. I get just

as much out of reading the guys' posts here as they may get from the ladies'. I apologized for inadvertently

hurting your feelings, and that was sincere. Everybody has tough days and tough issues. Nobody said it was easy. The

only way I know of to really arrive at an understanding is to get out there and dialog, challenge, debate, take a

few lumps, give a few, go to lunch, mull it over, adjust, and get over it. We can sit and ponder, or we can do

something with it.

That said, you were going along just fine there, and then you said, "inappropriately

power-conscious women". And I tripped. What the hell does that mean? Mind you - I'm ASKING, because last time, it

upset you when I responded first instead of asking for explanation first. Is there some invisible limit on how

power-conscious a woman should be? Or anyone? I'm pretty comfortable with the subject power-consciousness. I PLAY

with the idea, even to the extent of horsing around conversationally about erotic power-transfer situations. Think

about it. Really. Some people find power-consciousness and playing with it to be the be-all, end-all of sexy. In

both directions. And some of them swing both ways, gender totally notwithstanding, if my understanding of the

subject is correct. So. What's the "appropriate" limit? Yours? Mine? His? Hers? Is there a rule somewhere? Is it

wrong to feel that it's out of bounds to assume that power in the hands of one particular gender is "inappropriate"

because of their gender? Inquiring minds, you know...

The only thing I know about power struggles between

people, is that (for healthy, functioning adults, anyway) power taken, and power taken for granted is generally

really bad. Power naturally owned, and power freely granted are generally really good. But I'll qualify all that by

saying that I live within a spiritual framework which outright requires me to bow my head before no mere mortal of

any description. In the end, if I have any duty toward others, it's primarily only to encourage them to find and

reclaim their own native power, should they need to. Genuinely spiritually strong people are just naturally very

powerful entities, and the more we know our own, the less we want to usurp anyone else's. My honest feeling at

this point, is that acquisition, retention, and management of personal power is a big issue for you. And I

congratulate you! I think it's a good place to be. Lots of us trying to travel that way, and lots of different

paths to take.

I know I parsed some of what you were saying, so it might not be quite fair, but please try to

take what I saying here as kind of a gestalt, as I didn't suffer much choosing my phrasing in saying it.



Peace!

DrSmellThis
06-10-2004, 11:05 PM
OK. That was a reasonable and

effective question, as I was not referring to how much power consciousness, a lot of which is good,

all other things being equal; but to the type of power consciousness being how abuse happens. Power

consciousness and the accompanying power are responsibilities, as those in the BDSM communities know. There is a

very conscious sharing of it.

Personal empowerment is one of the things I think important in living creatively

on the planet.

Now I see an apology. Before, no. Accepted.

tounge
06-10-2004, 11:27 PM
I baked brownies for

everyone. No more fighting. :)


Ummm!!! Nothing like one of Elana's fresh baked Ex-Lax laced

brownies. They are good for what ails some people around here.:D:D:D

Watcher
06-11-2004, 01:54 AM
Kitty tells all guys off - dare i

say prima donna - ive met with and dealt with enough of them over the years - and since i joined up here i know

exactly how to deal with em - they are to busy out with each other being competitive with other females to mostly

not bother with guys.

They say they use men (but never get with em) etc etc.

Dont wanna sound to

testostrone here but the slightly less attractive women (8s) tend to be a little more more "personable" and less

"man hating" - i guess it is to sort the best from the rest and because they have always had male attention

everything is about sex - which it is anyway but thats another point lol.

I do respect women BUT .... those

that expect everything based upon their looks have 20 years at most ...... and are usually to up themselves to

bother with - and when you do they are usually louzy sexual partners because they expect the men to do all the work.

SLightly less attractive ones are more robust during mating lol and slightly more exciting in general.

Elana
06-11-2004, 05:19 AM
(Though I don't think I

felt needy, I "supplicated" myself when I remarked that what's-her-name's photo was sexy without her having to

"work for" the compliment -- inviting abuse -- and sure enough, there it came. An opportunity for someone to gain

power. I even thought, "Oh, shit!" to myself right after posting. I guess my "giving up personal power" made the

person feel safe to attack.
What does your comment about Kitty's picture have to do with how she

responded to you or anyone for that matter? You commented on the armpit exposed and it was a very interesting

observation, but I don't remember any negative comments in regard to that subject. Do you think that has something

to do with the way Kitty responded in this thread? I am just curious.....

belgareth
06-11-2004, 06:01 AM
Ok, this thread started out as

a discussion about mones verses looks. It was hijacked into a pissing match. The only reason I let it go on was that

there were some valid comments about the art of attraction. However, it has turned into an off topic discussion. I

would appreciate it if you folks would either take it off line or to open discussion.

Elana
06-11-2004, 06:03 AM
NO!!!
I was leading it in a

different direction.
I wanted to talk about compliments as a positive. Some women actually love to be complimented

and are attracted to men that appreciate them and tell them often.

Elana
06-11-2004, 06:06 AM
I quit......I am done with this one

too.
I don't know how this got so out of hand. I am sorry for anyone's feelings that were hurt.

belgareth
06-11-2004, 06:06 AM
NO!!!
I was

leading it in a different direction.
I wanted to talk about compliments as a positive. Some women actually love to

be complimented and are attracted to men that appreciate them and tell them often.
Please do. That would

be a good way to bring the conversation back to attraction.

DCW
06-11-2004, 09:07 AM
Hang on not so fast this is getting

good :-)

I just read the post today for the first time and I did get a sense of unnecessary rudeness (no

names). This is a common phenomenon all over the web for some reason people feel the need to rag on one another over

minor things.

LS is one of the better site for discussion in my opinion.

Now on the topic of looks

verses mones I think that initially looks win out.
All you have to do is turn on the TV and watch all those

pretty people onscreen to titillate your viewing interests, not to mention the booming diet, health club and plastic

surgery industries.
I also believe that mones can add to your appeal if your a lets say a 6 it can boot your

interest level higher.

Scent is a powerful phenomenon. On the other had good looks can and do fade over time

so you better bring more to the plate.

Time and other factor in life have a way of making pretty people

humble in later years; believe me I know of what I speak.

DCW

Pass the butter -Betty Croker

jose
06-11-2004, 09:24 AM
I do notice a lot of rudeness and

fighting going on around here lately, let's be civil and discuss things without putting someone down. Unless you

want to do this all-day.
http://img62.photobucket.com/albums/v188/GODHOOD/av-4748.gif

DrSmellThis
06-11-2004, 09:46 AM
You commented on

the armpit exposed and it was a very interesting observation, but I don't remember any negative comments in regard

to that subject. Do you think that has something to do with the way Kitty responded in this thread? The

comment is about mammalian level behavior we all engage in. I am using myself as an example to help folks understand

that it is another level of human interaction, mostly an unconscious one, that gets underemphasized. Any time one

gives a compliment in a power-significant situation that isn't really natural to the ebb and flow of the

relationship, even if only perceived this way; there is a power exchange involved. (A simpler example would have

been a guy who gives a woman flowers before it is appropriate, regarding how that changes the power dynamic.) There

wouldn't necessarily have been any comments as regards the inappropriate compliment, as it wasn't about the

compliment itself. It was about the bigger power dynamic. You are correct that often compliments per se turn out

well, depending on the situation. But not always. It was humorous to me to think that I could be responsible on

mammalian level for inviting the reaction. Maybe that wasn't really happening even on an unconscious level.

I don't know, and want to move on anyway, at this point. Maybe I should have said it was an "as if" for

illustrative purposes, or not speculated at that point. But it is even possible to have a positive overt

response to a physical or "energetic" gift; (e.g., "Wow, thanks, I really appreciate that! You're so sweet!") and

yet have an opposite power dynamic happen on another, most often unconscious, level. Know that I am not suggesting

people not give compliments. I would suggest that people give in their relationships to a level they feel is natural

to the ebb and flow. We each have many examples of mammalian power exchanges in our daily lives, and it is germane

to attraction science. The topic has been discussed many times in the forum. Raising our power consciousness, as

Peachy observed, should be a good thing.

tallmacky
06-11-2004, 09:53 AM
I think Dr is a wise believer

in "Treat 'em rough get the muff".

Doc I agree with that aspect, not the above but what you are saying, in

that if a guy who has not gotten the response of a sexual/emotional desire from a woman if he starts handing out

compliments they may be appreciated but they hardly if ever help with your "chances" and in turn can actually be a

negative for the one handing the compliments out....The loss of power etc.... Now the guy who has got a noted

positive reaction from a woman needs to hand out those compliments or else......bye bye.

tallmacky
06-11-2004, 10:01 AM
This may also seem bias to say,

but in general, attractive girls learn at an early age how to control and dominate guys. In other words get the

wanted effect out of guys. Guys do this too, but usually yield less power. :P Its all in the power of what they say

and how they react, a lot of guys will fall ploy for it at some time. "What honey you really think its too

small".......its no secret that the guys that take less shit and retain their "power" (whether assholes or not) seem

to have little problems getting by the "bitchiness". Much of this is unconcious at the time but people know what

they are doing to a certain extent. Girls know why they like the guy who they can't just push over. And guys know

why they like the girl with bigger balls than them.

That said about women, guys have a lot of negatives, for

one they are gross. I am a gross person btw. :eek:

CptKipling
06-11-2004, 10:02 AM
Right, and those compliments

don't have to be verbal. The best received compliments will be the ones that induce a feeling of excitement, and

make her feel thought about/loved.

tallmacky
06-11-2004, 10:06 AM
Right, and

those compliments don't have to be verbal. The best received compliments will be the ones that induce a feeling of

excitement, and make her feel thought about/loved.

Exactly, telling a girl "Wow, you are so pretty"

isn't going to make them ball over in happiness, have to be a little more than that, and they may think "Ahh shit

another toad". If that is the only compliment you have to offer. :p

Yes, big manly feeling actions not

always words, it may come off as a lot of people like to say "beta" when a pest like guy keeps complimenting a girl

on her face ass or tits. :eek: If that is all you have to say to her don't expect her to respect and "thank" you,

when the vice versa is not happening.

BTW I am sure the Doc is more dynamic than that (my sweet loverboy),

not speaking about the Dr. directly anyhow.

DrSmellThis
06-11-2004, 10:17 AM
Yep, that tends to be the way

it is (not literally "treat 'em rough, though ;)). I'd prefer everything to be sweet all the time and

"hippie-like", but it has to be natural to the flow to help the intimacy get there, assuming you have a chemistry in

the first place.

DrSmellThis
06-11-2004, 10:23 AM
TM, you the man 4 smooth. Show

us how it's done, loverboy!

JustPeachy
06-11-2004, 10:24 AM
Like so many other things, I

think it's less what you do than how you do it. I reject men who come off as weak to me. But what's weak? One

thing that comes to mind is a guy I know who used to be a total blast to flirt with. It was give and take, chase and

be chased, wink, wink, nod, nod. Big fun. I warned him straight up it was all about the flirt with me, and to never

expect more because it wasn't there. I smiled, bit was direct about it. Then he decided to make a move anyway. No

surprise there. Saw it coming, and that's why I warned. It was cool. He was very direct. So was I, but I liked him

so I handled him gently. But next time I saw him, it was all 'bout gettin' rough. The guy talked to me in a tone

of voice and said stuff you wouldn't actually even say to anyone you weren't already horizontal with, and was

insistent. Poof! Off the radar, just like that, no more nice Peach. He thought he was comin' on all strong, I saw

it as super-weak, a desperado play. He wasn't going to get anywhere anyway, so he lost nothing in the attempt.

Except a friend and good-times companion. Too bad, too. He had a far better chance of finding someone when he was in

play. It made him look more desirable to other women, plus I was introducing him to other women I know in the course

of all the playing around.

So what's "rough", TM? You're gonna have to define it better, for it to make

sense. Can you give us a scenario?

Ash
06-11-2004, 10:25 AM
This may also seem

bias to say, but in general, attractive girls learn at an early age how to control and dominate guys. In other words

get the wanted effect out of guys. Guys do this too, but usually yield less power. :P Its all in the power of what

they say and how they react, a lot of guys will fall ploy for it at some time. "What honey you really think its too

small".......its no secret that the guys that take less shit and retain their "power" (whether assholes or not) seem

to have little problems getting by the "bitchiness". Much of this is unconcious at the time but people know what

they are doing to a certain extent. Girls know why they like the guy who they can't just push over. And guys know

why they like the girl with bigger balls than them.

That said about women, guys have a lot of negatives, for one

they are gross. I am a gross person btw. :eek:

Sage! Very

Sage!!!

tallmacky
06-11-2004, 10:29 AM
Yep, that

tends to be the way it is (not literally "treat 'em rough, though ;)). I'd prefer everything to be sweet all the

time and "hippie-like", but it has to be natural to the flow to help the intimacy get there, assuming you have a

chemistry in the first place.

Very true Dr. and people may find it odd when it is guys who say,

"let's cut the shit and the games". :p

I remember my brother was in NYC, and I was on the phone with him

and he was talking about buying his new girlfriend flowers and I jokingly said "Be careful you don't want to come

off as caring too much", he then responded to the effect of "Who gives a shit if I do, if she is really worth it she

will like the Flowers." That meaning, I don't want to play games, and to just be honest and real and if she can't

take that or wants to play games, or is turned off by that (caring).....f#ck her. :eek: It turned out well, she is a

great girl and he is still into her. That could be considered being "rough". If the girl is smart enough to get

it.

There still are matches out there, though. A lot of tastey shiet to dig around in but it still can work

out on some level.

JustPeachy
06-11-2004, 10:35 AM
Exactly! Bro is a ballsy dude.

My little playmate was a total weiner. It wasn't what they did, so much as the 'tude that went with it.

tallmacky
06-11-2004, 10:36 AM
Sage!

Very Sage!!!

Yeah I could go

into details on how women attain their power, and the worst part how many guys nurture this. It starts at puberty

and with many "lies" and changes in a woman's character, even down to the guys she is into then. For example they

could be into the overtly skinny, ugly guy who is not afraid of girls in HS, and then advance into liking actual

men. Bad way of explaining this but I don't feel like it. :p Its all natural though, like those -mones so

complaining about the way a woman acts is unrealistic, its there for a reason. Still....don't mean you got to like

it, but don't be a bitch about it.

I agree with Peachy, even women who are very sexual are at the

basis emotional creatures, sure the looks add on a lot to a guy, but if they aren't feeling his personality they

will leave your ass, and they should! Women are also great at taking one thing a guy says for example and knowing a

lot about his personality. So to those that say women are too emotional or too quick to judge, no they aren't they

are just better judges. A girl can tell from one response from a guy whether he is a dumb ass, liar, cheater, dead

beat, piece of shit, great guy, protector, honest etc... Whether they are judging on merits of good or bad. Whatever

they are looking for. :p

JustPeachy
06-11-2004, 10:41 AM
A girl can

tell from one response from a guy whether he is a dumb ass, liar, cheater, dead beat, piece of shit, great guy,

protector, honest etc... Whether they are judging on merits of good or bad. Whatever they are looking for.

:p
Sometimes. Some of us. Otherwise, there's no explanation for otherwise smart women making insanely bad

relationship choices. :)

tallmacky
06-11-2004, 10:43 AM
Sometimes.

Some of us. Otherwise, there's no explanation for otherwise smart women making insanely bad relationship choices.

:)
Gotta love the Drama, eh? :D

I guess that's the Mamalian (subconcious and partially

irrational) layer, that Dr. is talking about, which is also true! :eek:

JustPeachy
06-11-2004, 10:46 AM
Gotta love

the Drama, eh? :D

I guess that's the Mamalian (subconcious and partially irrational) layer, that Dr. is talking

about, which is also true! :eek:
I might be tempted to leave at most of us being very quick at perception.

Judgement is a whole other thing. :D

tallmacky
06-11-2004, 10:50 AM
I might be

tempted to leave at most of us being very quick at perception. Judgement is a whole other thing.

:D

Ok let's make a peace offering. A offering for peace between Penises and Vaginas in all of the

love-scent world. We abid by this agreement or we all become Hermaphrodites....deal? :eek:

I am done posting

for all of today, my brain hurts so bad, between Peachy and Dr. its really hard to say which one makes me re-read

their posts the most to get out all the information. You both are some smart asses (in a good way :)) :eek:

JustPeachy
06-11-2004, 10:52 AM
Ok let's

make a peace offering. A offering for peace between Penises and Vaginas in all of the love-scent world. We abid by

this agreement or we all become Hermaphrodites....deal? :eek:

I am done posting for all of today, my brain

hurts so bad, between Peachy and Dr. its really hard to say which one makes me re-read their posts the most to get

out all the information. You both are some smart asses (in a good way :)) :eek:
I perceive a wish to

leave. But I'm reserving judgement on it. :D

Sexyredhead
06-11-2004, 11:24 AM
I perceive

a wish to leave. But I'm reserving judgement on it. :D

:D :D :D :D

fran1
06-11-2004, 01:06 PM
If you have goods looks but not a

good aura(aroma, voice, walk, sense of body language, etc) mones only will help you to get people around you and

thats it.
In case that you want more than that, practice first without Mones and when you think that you can make

something big try it, little, by little.
For me the speed that you can make with mones its incredible, specially

this enhace your genetic information and what do you want in that moment to the people thats around you smelling

this.
Be careful, have fun, and try to speak with JVK, he can give you better instructions.

fran1
06-11-2004, 01:09 PM
Another point.
Will be great

that the people who make this products give us their own feedback too.
I want to know how successful they are

when they applying their own products!
What do you think guys?
will be goo to hear from the owners of this

products to tell us their hit stories with details and instructions of use.!!!!