View Full Version : Michael Moore Wins Top Honors...
Holmes
05-22-2004, 12:21 PM
...for
Fahrenheit
9/11.
Woohoo (\"http://movies.yahoo.com/cannes/news/apc/20040522/108525912000.html\")!
Holmes
koolking1
05-22-2004, 03:04 PM
yep, am eager to see it!!!
BigGulp
05-22-2004, 04:00 PM
Yeah, the frogs loved is corpulent ass at Cannes. That was a big F\'ing surprise. Where\'s the puke icon when
you need it?
JustPeachy
05-22-2004, 04:29 PM
Straight up, Gulp.
BigGulp
05-22-2004, 04:43 PM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
DrSmellThis
05-22-2004, 08:09 PM
Frogs = French? Never heard that one.
An interesting philosophical question: At what point is a good
citizen\'s quiet support of a controversial president\'s foreign policies during an extended wartime no longer
obligatory from one\'s patriotic duty? Is it never?
BigGulp
05-23-2004, 12:26 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Frogs = French? Never heard that one.
An
interesting philosophical question: At what point is a good citizen\'s quiet support of a controversial
president\'s foreign policies during an extended wartime no longer obligatory from one\'s patriotic duty? Is it
never?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Huh?
If I understand your question I don\'t
think there has ever been a moral (for lack of a better word) or philosophical obligation to support a President (in
the US) during a time of war. There is a legal obligation in the form of a draft and, depending on the War, the risk
of social chastisement if you find your views are too far outside of the mainstream as happened to Lucky Lindy after
the start of WWII. As for being a Patriot, I don\'t see those that are against the war or Bush as being any less
patriotic than those that are for the war and the country seems almost evenly divided on the issue.
I don\'t
see Moore as a Leftist Patriot though. I see him as a Carpet Bagging propagandist, extraordinarily adept at
extracting serious $ from those that like to feed their minds with half truths and whole lies. Stalin referred to
this group of people as \"his useful idiots\". In his movie, Moore\'s bottom line is that Bush was the
mastermind behind 911. Millions will believe it to be true after seeing the movie. I don\'t see where that is
going to help prevent NY, CH or LA from getting hit with a dirty bomb. Unless, of course, Bush really was behind
911 and his next targets are NY, CH and LA. In which case we should get him out of office right now.
DrSmellThis
05-23-2004, 01:32 AM
You understood me correctly the first time. I\'m glad you don\'t hold that moral you referred to, but we are
seeing quite often just that ethic in the news, as some Republicans in Congress, for example, are claiming political
critics (e.g, the New Yorker author) are putting our fighting men and women unnecessarily at risk. And Moore will
receive the criticism that he is making a \"perfect propaganda film to recruit terrorists\". Again, the same idea:
\"Criticising the president is tantamount to supporting the enemy, by degree of the severity of the criticism\",
according to such an \"ethic\".
So I\'m not asking you personally, BigGulp, but I am still asking: When
will it be OK to again criticise our government, and demonstrate to the world a real, crucial benefit of democracy
that thinking people from non-democratic cultures might be able to relate to? When the most brutal rational
criticisms of your country can emerge from within your own culture, due to accessability of information or whatever,
you\'ve achieved something special! This is democracy at near best, in action. Meanwhile, maybe our government
gets pressured to slightly alter its course, if we\'re lucky, and the world gets to observe that too, as we are
now seeing with war prison reform. Let\'s release the photos and investigation results; and then \"hand out puke
icons to everybody\"! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif~ Will this do as puke icon,
BTW?
Open societies are not about some ficticious absence of \"bad things\" (e.g., corrupt politicians and
soldiers); but rather how those open societies handle their bad things.
I will be curious to finally see the
movie and find out if that really is Moore\'s intended point (i.e., Bush simply \"masterminding 9/11\"), per
se. I think Moore is selling himself short if it indeed is, as there are other telling points to be made from
all the raw material (e.g., Bush\'s former ties to the Bin Laden family) I heard went into the documentary. He
doesn\'t need to make that limited, and \"black and white\", of a conclusion. But I agree with you that, if
it was \"masterminded\" that way, Bush should be immediately removed from office; and I would add, thrown in
prison for murder and treason, as per the transparent openness and impartiality of the American judicial system at
its best.
Pretty
cool that he won as it´s a docfilm not a `normal´ movie. As for he frog reference, it´s toal crap because the jury
consisted mainly of americans.
The one criticism I heard about this film is that it doesn´t mention anything
about Guantanamo Bay and that´s a shame imo.
CJ
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Frogs = French? Never heard that one.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> It´s an old one I´m afraid and bloody stupid and rude too I reckon ...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
franki
05-23-2004, 03:35 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Pretty cool that he won as it´s a docfilm not a
`normal´ movie. As for he frog reference, it´s toal crap because the jury consisted mainly of americans.
The one
criticism I heard about this film is that it doesn´t mention anything about Guantanamo Bay and that´s a shame
imo.
CJ
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
What I heard was that you can hardly call it a
\"documentary\", and that it is rather propaganda for Moore\'s conspiracy theories..
Well I
can´t say but either way it´s not a normal movie. I don´t even care if it is about his theories as long as it´s a
good film and we have to wait till it comes out. What are the chances that the yanks get to see it? Taking bets
now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
metroman
05-23-2004, 09:18 AM
Dont worry America! Go back to your Oprah your Dr Phil, Friends & Frasier...The official story of 9/11 as
promulgated by big corporate media, CNN, Fox, etc is just as they it is. Dont you go believing those radical nut
case conspiracy theorists like Michael Moore or David Icke... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Elana
05-23-2004, 09:36 AM
Michael Moore is a lizard too? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
BigGulp
05-23-2004, 09:37 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well I can´t say but either way it´s not a normal
movie. I don´t even care if it is about his theories as long as it´s a good film and we have to wait till it comes
out. What are the chances that the yanks get to see it? Taking bets now
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
The movie
will be seen here CJ. We aren\'t a totalitarian state yet. I don\'t see that happening until shortly after
Hillary is elected in 2008.
Are you
sure you´re gonna get to see it? When exactly?
JustPeachy
05-23-2004, 10:30 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Frogs = French? Never heard that one.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\"> It´s an old one I´m afraid and bloody stupid and rude too I reckon ...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Quite correct, though I\'m not sure \"frog\" was entirely derisive. It
was applied to allies in WWII. The modern term appears to be \"Cheese-eating Surrender Monkey\". Too bad, really,
as I understand the French people are not generally in much agreement with the current government (this view gained
from Euro friends and a Parisian in a particular). Seems \"their\" corporate propaganda and \"ours\" are in
opposition these days...and if you can truly sort out all the multinationals, you\'re doing better than I
am.
As to supporting the President - no, there\'s no moral requirement to support him in particular. There is,
however a moral requirement to support fellow citizens in harm\'s way, whether you approve their situation or not.
Were it not so, there would probably be no need for puke icons.
You´re
right, the french aren´t happy with their government and neither are the germans with theirs but for internal
reasons and not for the reasons americans hate them. The british are p*ssed off with Blair too and so on...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
BigGulp
05-23-2004, 11:54 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
You understood me correctly the first time. I\'m
glad you don\'t hold that moral you referred to, but we are seeing quite often just that ethic in the news, as
some Republicans in Congress, for example, are claiming political critics (e.g, the New Yorker author) are putting
our fighting men and women unnecessarily at risk. And Moore will receive the criticism that he is making a
\"perfect propaganda film to recruit terrorists\". Again, the same idea: \"Criticising the president is
tantamount to supporting the enemy, by degree of the severity of the criticism\", according to such an \"ethic\".
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
The \"Republicans in Congress\", and others that
criticize the protesters, have just as much right to their criticisms as those who are protesting against the
President and the war. I don\'t see anybody being thrown in jail for speaking their mind. I hear a lot of people
on the left whining about their voices being stifled but if their voices were really being stifled I wouldn\'t be
able to hear them whine. The New Yorker authors\'s article was published; yes? As are hundreds of other articles
being published every day criticizing the President; so where\'s the problem? Seems to me that freedom of speech
is alive and well in the US of A on both sides. As for Moore, I have as much right to criticize him for making a
\"Perfect Propaganda film\" as he has the right to make and SELL his film. When I criticize Moore or Clinton or
Bush I should expect to get some flames in return. If my arguments are valid maybe I\'ll change some minds. If
they\'re not, maybe somebody will change my mind.
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So I\'m not asking you personally, BigGulp, but I am still asking: When
will it be OK to again criticise our government, and demonstrate to the world a real, crucial benefit of democracy
that thinking people from non-democratic cultures might be able to relate to? When the most brutal rational
criticisms of your country can emerge from within your own culture, due to accessability of information or whatever,
you\'ve achieved something special! This is democracy at near best, in action. Meanwhile, maybe our government
gets pressured to slightly alter its course, if we\'re lucky, and the world gets to observe that too, as we are
now seeing with war prison reform. Let\'s release the photos and investigation results; and then \"hand out puke
icons to everybody\"! ~ Will this do as puke icon, BTW?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
\"When the most brutal rational criticisms of your country can emerge from within your own culture,
due to accessibility of information or whatever, you\'ve achieved something special! \" This is happening
right now all over the country Doc. Tune into Seattle\'s KIRO Radio station at 9:PM tonight and listen to Erin
Hart\'s program or Mike Webb\'s 9:PM program week nights. \"Brutal\" doesn\'t even come close to describing
the animas, vitriol and pure hatred of the Bush administration expressed by the hosts and callers on these programs.
Free speech and descent IS alive and well in Seattle, San Fran., NY and Portland too. Just go through your AM radio
dial and you\'ll find it. You don\'t have to look very hard.
As for other countries relating to
Democracy....that\'s a scary thought. As Churchill once said; \"Democracy is the worst form of government there
is. Except for every other form of government.\". Democracy is not a pretty thing to watch. By nature Democracy it
is brutal because by nature people are brutal. Read some history about the founding of the USA, the writing of the
Constitution and the forming of our Nation. What an ugly mess. Read a history of what Abraham Lincoln went through
during the Civil War. News Papers in the North as well as the South were openly calling for his
assassination. Lincoln new he would be killed before his term ended but he carried on with what he believed
in. Politics in the United States has never been pretty. NEVER.
I guess the point I\'m trying to make is
that as bad as things look right now they aren\'t even close to as bad as they\'ve been at times throughout our
history. I don\'t worry about us as a people. Left and Right will continue to piss on each other just like
we\'ve always done. I worry about the Dirty bombs though and I\'m always concerned about the Lizard People.
The /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif~ will have to do for now and I must leave and see if
I can\'t create more chaos with my last two drops of JDM and...dare I put 4 sprays of Chikara on today?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
DrSmellThis
05-23-2004, 02:02 PM
Some good points, BG. Dissent is certainly alive, anyway. On the other hand, so is information control, in many
ways. There are those in congress that sort of call for people\'s heads who express such dissent, rather than just
disagree. I haven\'t personally heard that Moore\'s film is BS, but that would be a shame. Good heretical
information is still challenging to come by.
BigGulp
05-23-2004, 02:37 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Are you sure you´re gonna get to see it? When
exactly?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I would think it will take about the same amount of
time that any other successful Cannes film would take to make it\'s way through the system and out to the Theaters
here. It could happen much faster given Moore\'s connections to the Hollywood scene. I think it\'s safe to say
Moore will have an easier time getting his film shown than Gibson did with the \"Passion\". HW doesn\'t like
Gibson at all and certainly didn\'t like the subject of his last movie. HW loves Moore and the way Bush is
presented in the film, so, as they say here in the USA, \"Look for it soon in a Theater near you\".
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frogs = French? Never
heard that one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It´s an
old one I´m afraid and bloody stupid and rude too I reckon ...
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
As you already know CJ, I\'m not a very politically correct person. Screw that. That
doesn\'t mean I\'m an A-hole. I just say what\'s on my mind. I\'m the same in the real world too. I\'m not
without sensitivity and compassion though. There are words that aren\'t in my vocabulary. The \"C\" word when
referring to a woman. The \"N\" word when referring to a Black person. Etc., etc., on down the line. I don\'t
see anything particularly offensive in the term \"frog\". The French have been called a lot worse by some of the
greatest political, military and social minds history can offer up. When I use a term like that I\'m referring to
a government and not to a people. I\'m sure the French are wonderful people. I\'d never have sex with a French
women though. Having owned a French car in my past I\'m sure I wouldn\'t be able cope with all the extra
maintenance. I\'m very fond of English Girls though. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
franki
05-23-2004, 02:40 PM
Post deleted by Bruce
BigGulp
05-23-2004, 03:37 PM
oops! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
metroman
05-24-2004, 03:54 AM
Is that what the woman who was fired from her job for photographing the coffins to show the real toll of Iraq vs
the sanitized version brought to you by the propaganda corp embedded reporters doing; exercising her right to free
speech? Is that what the American people were doing in Nov of 2000 when the majority of people voting in this
country decided that Al Gore should be leading the government vs having the election stolen by the military junta US
Supreme Court; exercising their rights to participate in a democracy?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
EXIT63
05-24-2004, 05:07 AM
All
this from a man who believes in lizard people.
It´s
okay, don´t worry Ash, I just get bored of those terms and coming from an american makes it a bit dodgy that´s all
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Btw I´d never use the `N´word myself!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
I\'d never have sex with a French women though
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Not sure I
would either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The French have been called a lot worse by some of the greatest political,
military and social minds history can offer up.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> For instance, can you
name some examples? I hope you don´t mean Bush /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure you´re
gonna get to see it? When exactly?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would think it
will take about the same amount of time that any other successful Cannes film would take to make it\'s way through
the system and out to the Theaters here. It could happen much faster given Moore\'s connections to the Hollywood
scene. I think it\'s safe to say Moore will have an easier time getting his film shown than Gibson did with the
\"Passion\". HW doesn\'t like Gibson at all and certainly didn\'t like the subject of his last movie. HW loves
Moore and the way Bush is presented in the film, so, as they say here in the USA, \"Look for it soon in a Theater
near you\".
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> So you didn´t hear about Moores problems to get the
film shown then?
BigGulp
05-24-2004, 08:27 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It´s okay, don´t worry Ash, I just get bored of
those terms and coming from an american makes it a bit dodgy that´s all
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Btw I´d never use the `N´word myself!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
I\'d never have sex with a French women though
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Not sure I
would either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The French have been called a lot worse by some of the greatest political,
military and social minds history can offer up.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> For instance, can you
name some examples? I hope you don´t mean Bush /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Frederick The Great, Rommel, Patton, Ben Franklin, Eisenhower,
Churchill. Forgive my spelling on those names. It\'s a pretty long list actually. Those are just a few that come
to mind right now as I getting ready for the day. De Gaul was a HUGE thorn in the side of the Allies during WWII
but you can\'t fault the French people for that.
Moore\'s alleged problem with distributing his film here is
a total invention by him to help promote the film and to make the USA look like an evil monster. Our government
isn\'t going to stop the film from being seen. They can\'t. The USA is still a free country. The distribution
outlets for the films shown in the USA are all privately owned by the Hollywood crowd. Again, that\'s why Gibson
had such a hard time with the \"Passion\".
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Our government isn\'t going to stop the film from
being seen
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> That´s not what´s being said actually. I don´t think USA
is very free to be honest but that´s another subject perhaps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
What I heard was that it´s not the government itself but rather some powerful friends (in the film industry)who
don´t want this film out especially not before the elections.
I am ken to see whether or not Bush will get elected
this time round or if he loses and just refuse to move out of the White House and carry on squating in there
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
BigGulp
05-24-2004, 08:41 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Is that what the woman who was fired from her job
for photographing the coffins to show the real toll of Iraq vs the sanitized version brought to you by the
propaganda corp embedded reporters doing; exercising her right to free speech? Is that what the American people
were doing in Nov of 2000 when the majority of people voting in this country decided that Al Gore should be leading
the government vs having the election stolen by the military junta US Supreme Court; exercising their rights to
participate in a democracy? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
If the American people hadn\'t been given the sanitized version of ALL that went on during
WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would be in total darkness.
As for the Election
of 2000, I for one like the Electoral College system although I understand how the concept is a little too
complicated for some to grasp.
\"military junta US Supreme Court\". Can you send me some of whatever
it is you bin smokin? PLEEEEEEEEEEESE.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If the American people hadn\'t been given the
sanitized version of ALL that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would
be in total darkness.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I didn´t get that sorry
Pancho1188
05-24-2004, 08:49 AM
The Electoral College was created by the founding fathers because they realized that the average Joe was
too...\"uninformed\"...to make an educated decision on who was to become president.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
BigGulp
05-24-2004, 08:53 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Our government isn\'t going to stop the film from being seen
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> That´s not what´s being said actually. I don´t think USA is very free to be
honest but that´s another subject perhaps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif What I heard was that
it´s not the government itself but rather some powerful friends (in the film industry)who don´t want this film out
especially not before the elections.
I am ken to see whether or not Bush will get elected this time round or if he
loses and just refuse to move out of the White House and carry on squating in there
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
The hatred of
Bush by Hollywood and the promise of big Box Office $ will assure that the film will be seen in the USA. I don\'t
think it will be a big hit at the Theaters though.
I don\'t see Kerry winning the election but that can change
in a hurry. The election is still a long way off. Lots of talk from the\"Dark Side\" about another big terrorist
event happening just before the election. A very big event. What\'s that quote about living in interesting times?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
the average Joe was too...\"uninformed\"...to
make an educated decision on who was to become president.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I think
that´s true somehow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Maybe that´s why Thatcher remained in
office so bloody long ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif And maybe that´s why so many people in
germany voted for the morons again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Pancho1188
05-24-2004, 09:03 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If the American people hadn\'t been given the
sanitized version of ALL that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would
be in total darkness.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I believe what BigGulp is trying to say,
CJ, is that if people would\'ve known the truth, there would\'ve been an outrage that would\'ve led to bombs
dropping all over Europe, causing a catastrophic nuclear attack and destroying country upon country.
...but
I\'m just guessing.
Mtnjim
05-24-2004, 09:57 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Electoral College was created by the founding
fathers because they realized that the average Joe was too...\"uninformed\"...to make an educated decision on who
was to become president. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Here I always thought it was a distance/communications thing.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Pancho1188
05-24-2004, 10:17 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Electoral College was created by the founding fathers because they
realized that the average Joe was too...\"uninformed\"...to make an educated decision on who was to become
president. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Here I always thought it was a distance/communications thing.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well,
that\'s a reason why people were uninformed. Yes, it would\'ve taken months to gather all of the votes and
count a winner, plus the literacy rates were low...
metroman
05-24-2004, 03:33 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from a man who believes in lizard people.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
And what do you believe in? Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah???
Makes about as much sense... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
metroman
05-24-2004, 03:47 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If the American people hadn\'t been given the
sanitized version of ALL that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would
be in total darkness
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
So The Ends Justify the Means ...Who
said that? Was it Marx in the Communist Manifesto?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
As for the Election of 2000, I for one like the Electoral College system although I understand how the concept
is a little too complicated for some to grasp.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Its not
complicated...it\'s easy...its called how to make everyone believe they participate in a democracy when in fact
the country is actually run by powerful elites & corporations who could care less what the average citizen
thinks.
JustPeachy
05-24-2004, 04:00 PM
Well, Metro, part of the problem is that people DO believe they are participating in a democracy, when in fact they
live in a republic.
Interestingly enough, although communications have improved, literacy rates haven\'t
changed a whole lot since back then, and considerably less since about 1870 - when the federal government stepped in
and started mandating curriculum the public schools. I found that little factoid rather shocking at first
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif, but the more I thought about it...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
EXIT63
05-24-2004, 05:48 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from a man who believes in lizard people.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
And what do you believe in? Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah??? Makes
about as much sense... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Santa Claus
BigGulp
05-24-2004, 08:37 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If the American people hadn\'t been given the sanitized version of ALL
that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would be in total darkness.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I didn´t get that sorry
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
If the American people had been shown the \"real battle and after battle\" film footage of
WWII, during WWII, and been told the truth about just how brutal the combat was, especially in East Asia, the
anti-war movement would have grown in the USA and we would have pulled out without winning WWII. Just like we did
in Viet Nam. That would have left Stalin and Hitler to bang away at each other until they reached an agreement on
how to divide things up. GB would have been totally defeated and occupied by the Nazis. Who knows what Europe and
Eastern Europe would look like now if that had happened. Let alone East Asia. The \"pro-war\", US
government/Lizard people sponsored PROPAGANDA MACHINE during WWII, in the USA, was incredible. It shaped and formed
public opinion and kept it focused and concentrated on WINNING the war. To say they were controlled would be a
stretch but the news media, publications media and film media were all heavily influenced by the Government/Lizard
people so that they would all be telling the same \"Pro War\"/Lizard people story. Take a look at the American
films made during WWII. Their theme and content was not an accident. It was all very seriously orchestrated by the
Lizard people..... I mean Government/Lizard people.....I mean Government. Whew!
I hope that answers your Q CJ.
Metro. Ask Franki and CJ if the end justified the means in WWII.
Metro. I got to tell you man. Lizards have
such tiny primitive brains. I have to assume that the ones that are *really running things* have a little larger
brain than your run of the mill, ordinary, everyday lizard. But Dude, you ain\'t there yet.
Panch, you ain\'t
there yet either. Read a book man. Read a bunch of books. It\'s just sad.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Pancho1188
05-25-2004, 04:28 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Panch, you ain\'t there yet either. Read a book
man. Read a bunch of books. It\'s just sad. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You know, I like how everyone labels what I say as \"sad\". Do you know
what\'s sad? People who take everything the media tells them and believes it. You know that the Spanish-American
War was started because the media made things look worse than they were? Yes, I know history. History tells me
that people will tilt stories in whatever way they can to make their case.
You think my hypothetical was so
\"not there yet\"? Do you know the first thing I heard come out of people\'s mouths after 9/11? \"Bomb them
all. Just get rid of all of them.\" How far-fetched is that, really? Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, and we took a
nuclear missle and shoved it up their asses. What do you think would\'ve happened if another country hit home,
huh? Is that so inconceivable?
Yes, that is sad. Very sad.
In case you forgot, there are many ways to see
the world...not just one. If thinking differently and breaking society\'s assumptions is sad, then I\'m proud
to be the saddest mother to ever live.
metroman
05-25-2004, 04:41 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from
a man who believes in lizard people.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
And what do you believe in?
Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah??? Makes about as much sense...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Santa Claus
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Might as well throw in the Easter Bunny. See...I knew you were
Christian... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Elana
05-25-2004, 05:26 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from a man who believes in lizard people.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
And what do you believe in? Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah??? Makes
about as much sense... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
The Taco Bell dog
Pancho1188
05-25-2004, 05:47 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from
a man who believes in lizard people.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
And what do you believe in?
Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah??? Makes about as much sense...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
The Taco
Bell dog
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yo quiero Taco Bell.
I think I need a bigger box.
I
think I need a bigger box.
I think I need a bigger box.
I think I need a bigger box.
I think I need a bigger
box.
I think I need a bigger box.
Yo quiero Taco Bell.
BigGulp
05-25-2004, 08:12 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Panch, you ain\'t there yet either. Read a book man. Read a bunch of
books. It\'s just sad. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
You know, I like how everyone labels what I say as \"sad\". Do you know what\'s sad?
People who take everything the media tells them and believes it. You know that the Spanish-American War was started
because the media made things look worse than they were? Yes, I know history. History tells me that people will
tilt stories in whatever way they can to make their case.
You think my hypothetical was so \"not there yet\"?
Do you know the first thing I heard come out of people\'s mouths after 9/11? \"Bomb them all. Just get rid of
all of them.\" How far-fetched is that, really? Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, and we took a nuclear missle and
shoved it up their asses. What do you think would\'ve happened if another country hit home, huh? Is that so
inconceivable?
Yes, that is sad. Very sad.
In case you forgot, there are many ways to see the world...not
just one. If thinking differently and breaking society\'s assumptions is sad, then I\'m proud to be the
saddest mother to ever live .
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
It\'s good that you
have a goal Panch.
Pancho1188
05-25-2004, 08:30 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It\'s good that you have a goal Panch.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I thought so, too.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
----------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the American people hadn\'t been
given the sanitized version of ALL that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and
Europe would be in total darkness.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn´t get that sorry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the American
people had been shown the \"real battle and after battle\" film footage of WWII, during WWII, and been told the
truth about just how brutal the combat was, especially in East Asia, the anti-war movement would have grown in the
USA and we would have pulled out without winning WWII.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> okay thanks
for elaborating. I suppose that´s true in a way. I´m sure it´s true also that if the majority of the population
had known what the Nazis were really doing there would have been way more resistance in Germany, and other countries
right from the start.
However I still don´t get why it took the americans so long to get their bums across the
atlantic. They knew what was happening but that´s a whole different complex issue I guess.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It was all very seriously orchestrated by the
Lizard people..... I mean Government/Lizard people.....
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> isn´t
everything? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Bottle
05-25-2004, 11:08 AM
it
was an atom bomb not a nuke...and it was used to cut short a war that would continue to wage until both countries
where ruined.
BTW this tech (atom bomb) along with some essential raw materials to construct the bombs
was stolen from a German U boat near the end of WWII in Europe.*** The U boat was carrying the plans from Germany to
Japan. If it had reached Japan then NY would of been where those Atom Bombs would of been landing.
I wont
go into the conspiracies surrounding the Pearl Harbour bombing.
and I know it aint PC...but Pearl Harbour
was tactical genius. Its only luck that America didnt lose all its fleet ( or is it
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif - did the lizards know what was up )
***near the end of
WWII, the U boat set sail before the End...but was captured after the end of the War, the ship\'s crew had no idea
the War had ended and didnt know about the precious cargo it carried. The U boat was sent with the plans cos the
Germans new the end was near...and felt the plans would better serve the Japanese to complete the designs on the
first Atom Bomb. The Americans Intel new of this very important ship\'s journey...and sent a fleet out to
intercept this U Boat.
very dramatic huh
-------------------------------------------
anyone seen
DAS BOOT, great sound track isnt it
Pancho1188
05-25-2004, 11:48 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
it was an atom bomb not a nuke...and it was used to
cut short a war that would continue to wage until both countries where ruined.
BTW this tech (atom bomb) along
with some essential raw materials to construct the bombs was stolen from a German U boat near the end of WWII in
Europe.*** The U boat was carrying the plans from Germany to Japan. If it had reached Japan then NY would of been
where those Atom Bombs would of been landing.
I wont go into the conspiracies surrounding the Pearl Harbour
bombing.
and I know it aint PC...but Pearl Harbour was tactical genius. Its only luck that America didnt lose
all its fleet ( or is it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif - did the lizards know what was up )
***near the end of WWII, the U boat set sail before the End...but was captured after the end of the War, the
ship\'s crew had no idea the War had ended and didnt know about the precious cargo it carried. The U boat was sent
with the plans cos the Germans new the end was near...and felt the plans would better serve the Japanese to complete
the designs on the first Atom Bomb. The Americans Intel new of this very important ship\'s journey...and sent a
fleet out to intercept this U Boat.
very dramatic huh
-------------------------------------------
anyone seen
DAS BOOT, great sound track isnt it
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Thanks for the correction. I
incorrectly use the two terms interchangeably sometimes, but at least I don\'t say, \"Nucular\"...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Good post. That whole disaster could\'ve been lessened in
severity had the guard known that they were enemy planes...it\'s a shame that they were expecting allied aircraft
around the same time they came or the damage wouldn\'t have been so devastating. But, as you said, it was a great
tactical move by Japan...although not a good long-term tactical move since it eventually led to its downfall, right?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
CJ, the United States waited so long because before
WWII...well, the best description of how the US was then is Canada now. It kept to itself and that was it. It
didn\'t meddle with the affairs of the \'outside world\'. The outcome of WWII gave the US recognition as a
\"superpower\", and since then it\'s gradually become the \"Big Brother\" of nations. I remember my history
teacher\'s rendition of the US government during WWII:
\"They just took over _(enter one of many locations
here)_! We must do something!\"
\"No, we must remain neutral! We can\'t get involved in this yet! Let\'s
wait until we absolutely have to get dragged into this war!\"
The President held off until the last possible
moment for various reasons. The US didn\'t have the military power it does now among other reasons.
Mtnjim
05-25-2004, 01:00 PM
\"The outcome of WWII gave the US recognition as a \"superpower\",...\"
Only because it was the only major
country whose infrastructure and manufacturing hadn\'t been devastated.
Pure \"luck\".
Elana
05-26-2004, 09:12 AM
I
found just the tail of a lizard in my house today. I think Michael Moore is trying to send me a message.
JustPeachy
05-26-2004, 12:22 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
\"The outcome of WWII gave the US recognition as a
\"superpower\",...\"
Only because it was the only major country whose infrastructure and manufacturing
hadn\'t been devastated.
Pure \"luck\".
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Uhhh, seems to
me, there mighta been a little \"superpower\" involved there, ya think? Ohhhh, right-o. It didn\'t have anything
to do with the fact that people in Germany were already using wheelbarrows to carry enough cash to buy a loaf of
bread when Hitler came to power. You\'re right. Evil Empire. We suck.
Mtnjim
05-26-2004, 01:03 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
\"The outcome of WWII gave the US recognition as a
\"superpower\",...\"
Only because it was the only major country whose infrastructure and manufacturing
hadn\'t been devastated.
Pure \"luck\".
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Uhhh, seems to
me, there mighta been a little \"superpower\" involved there, ya think? Ohhhh, right-o. It didn\'t have anything
to do with the fact that people in Germany were already using wheelbarrows to carry enough cash to buy a loaf of
bread when Hitler came to power. You\'re right. Evil Empire. We suck.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
I\'m sorry you didn\'t \"get it\". It has nothing to do with \"we suck\", it\'s just
the way things were. England, France, Germany, Japan, and just about all of the other European and Asian nations had
been devastated. Russia with their \"revolution\" had killed or deported the people with the skills to run major
manufacturing and farming operations. In other words, they had to \"learn\" to become a \"superpower\". Were you
simply considering military might, the Chinese outnumbered us 4 to 1. Before the war, the US was very isolationist,
after the war, we were fortunate enough to be \"in the right place at the right time\" to fill a vacuum.
Just
MHO
"Fahrenheit 9/11 gets help
offer from Hezbollah
Samantha Ellis
Thursday June 17, 2004
The Guardian
The controversy over Michael
Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 just won't go away. The film, which is being advertised with the strapline "Controversy?
What controversy?", has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America, meaning no one under 17 can see
it. Distributors Lions Gate Films and IFC Films, opening the film next week, are appealing against the decision. The
rating came partly because the film shows images of US soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners, images Moore says he had
long before the scandal erupted. He told Associated Press he kept quiet because he thought he'd be accused of "just
putting this out for publicity for my movie".
Anger at Moore is building up, too. Pro-military lobby group Move
America Forward is campaigning to "Stop Michael Moore from profiting in his attacks on America and our military";
Michael Wilson is making a documentary called Michael Moore Hates America; and the website
www.moorelies.com (http://www.moorelies.com/) is out "to expose America's fakest pseudo-muckraker".
Meanwhile, in the United Arab Emirates, the film is being offered the kind of support it doesn't need.
According to Screen International, the UAE-based distributor Front Row Entertainment has been contacted by
organisations related to the Hezbollah in Lebanon with offers of help. All in all, Tony Blair must be relieved that
Moore is not going to make a film about him; Moore rebuffed the rumour in a message on his website headlined: "Sorry
to scare you, Tony. Michael Moore was just kidding." "
a.k.a.
06-19-2004, 02:07 PM
Well, Metro, part
of the problem is that people DO believe they are participating in a democracy, when in fact they live in a
republic.
Interestingly enough, although communications have improved, literacy rates haven\'t changed a
whole lot since back then, and considerably less since about 1870[/img]
Where do you get this,
Peachy? According to the National Center for Education Statistics there was a dramatic rise in literacy between 1870
and 1979 (from 80% to 99.4% overall and 21% to 98.4% for African Americans).
Back in colonial days, literacy rates
were established by the percentage of people that could sign their own wills. (Not very scientific.)
http://nces.ed.gov/naal/historicaldata/littrend.asp
JustPeachy
06-19-2004, 02:10 PM
Where do you get
this, Peachy? According to the National Center for Education Statistics there was a dramatic rise in literacy
between 1870 and 1979 (from 80% to 99.4% overall and 21% to 98.4% for African Americans).
Back in colonial days,
literacy rates were established by the percentage of people that could sign their own wills. (Not very
scientific.)
[url="http://nces.ed.gov/naal/historicaldata/littrend.asp"]http://nces.ed.gov/naal/historicaldata/littrend.asp[/ur
l]
Heh. Consider YOUR source! :D My figures came from some independent historians who specialize in that
period.
a.k.a.
06-19-2004, 02:27 PM
Are you sure you´re
gonna get to see it? When exactly?
"Fahrenheit 9/11" was financed by Mirimax studios, owned by Disney
Co.. Disney didn’t want to distribute the film, so Mirimax founders Harvey and Bob Weinstein bought it at cost and
are going to show it through Lions Gate (a Canadian company) starting June 25.
Judging from Moore’s books,
the alleged connections between Bush and Bin Laden are probably going to be more of a spotlight on the business
agreements between the two families — not any kind of conspiracy theory. (Although I do hope Moore talks about how
Bush’s so-called “war on terrorism” is playing right into Al Qaida’s strategy.)
I expect the most shocking
part of this film will be coverage of the Iraq invasion. Moore managed to “embed” some of his people among the US
forces, which should provide an alternative view of what the troops think of their “commander in chief”. This may
well be why the film received an R rating.
a.k.a.
06-19-2004, 02:29 PM
My figures came
from some independent historians who specialize in that period.
So who are they? And where did they get
their data?
JustPeachy
06-19-2004, 02:33 PM
So who are they?
And where did they get their data?
Alright. I'll look up the references again. But not right now. I have
people coming over.
a.k.a.
06-19-2004, 02:38 PM
Alright. I'll
look up the references again. But not right now. I have people coming over.
No pressure, and I
suppose it doesn’t really matter (the important statistic is current literacy rates). I’m just shocked and amazed.
metroman
06-20-2004, 08:11 AM
Judging
from Moore’s books, the alleged connections between Bush and Bin Laden are probably going to be more of a spotlight
on the business agreements between the two families — not any kind of conspiracy theory.
Business
agreements between the Bush & Bin Laden families and no conspiracy...You must be joking...???
Fahrenheit 9/11" was financed by Mirimax studios, owned by Disney Co.. Disney didn’t want to
distribute the film.
Ever wonder why Disney didn't want to distribute "Fahrenheit 9/11" despite the
fact it's money in the bag...Michael Eisner, Disney CEO, is a pawn of the Bush Administration and does what he's
told by them despite the fact that Eisner is ultimately accountable to the shareholders of the Walt Disney
Company.
Bush has been an unmitigated disaster for the US, a total catastrophe! He is responsible for
incalculable damage to the reputation of the US around the world...Much of the world community no longer takes US
foreign policy seriously. There were no WMD (a child could figure that out) & now the 9/11 Commission has concluded
"no substantive ties between Al Qaeda & the Hussein regime"
I really dont know what keeps Colin Powell going
considering the extent he's been played by the neocons...
The people of the US are a wonderful, giving,
reasonable, peace loving people...but we keep electing total clowns to lead us...but then again we didn't really
elect this clown did we...
EXIT63
06-21-2004, 06:17 AM
controversial for you guys!!!!!!!:p
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5255897/
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