Large News

[Bruce]

Folks,

When it rains it

pours. We have yet another men\'s product coming down the tube. Could be another month or so before we have it

in hand, but I have a couple of initial questions I want to run by you guys.

1. Contrary to previous procedure,

this product will be released simultaneously in scented and unscented form. Imagine if you will, that you are about

to purchase this product, which would you be most inclinded to grab first, the scented or unscented? Or would it

depend on what you saw on the website?

2. Would you like to see this product start out in primitive form as a

\"beta\" at a discounted price or have you been beta-ed to death by now after Pheros and Chikara???

Any

feedback appreciated. By the way, looks/smells like a great product so far; reminds me of my first standard mix

Primal and APC. Interesting pheromone recipe; sort of a suped up AE. Supposed to be in a nice box but I haven\'t

seen it yet. The product is being manufactured by a top maker of body-building supplements.

Never a dull

moment,
B

[franki]

Bruce, my credit cards get

maxed out by all these new products.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

By the sound of it, this

product won\'t be as revolutionary as Chikara.

1 - I would pick the unscented

Question : With -beta do you

mean there is gonna be a questionaire like with WAGG and Chikara? If so, are the ingredients going to be secret

again??

[Mtnjim]

I probably would take the

unscented--like to \"roll-my-own\" if you know what I mean. If you are going to \"beta\" perhaps you could get

\"sample sized\" bottles and issue them for a \"real good price\"?
Is this in the AE/P-10 field, or is there

something new in it??

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

I would pick the

unscented one, unless anyone reported that it would be wise to choose the scented version.



</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Interesting pheromone recipe; sort of a suped up

AE.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Can you tell us anything else about it?

[Bruce]

Good questions and

feedback; thanks.

This product is in the AE class, and the contents will be 100% disclosed, you will be glad to

hear. At first I figured \"Well, back to back, Pheros and Chikara are going to be a couple of hard acts to

follow\", but there is something special to this new product (\"Perception\") in its own way. It has the same

pheros as AE, but the combo is different; heavier on the NOL and lighter on the NONE.

B

[bigdog]

The Pheromone Revolution

has kicked into high gear. A body building company now getting into the fray too. Hopefully the Federal Government

doesn\'t get toom much of a whiff and try to make an example of these products as they did ephedrine.

[einstein]

It seems I\'ve got

more curiosity than common sense. Beta or not, I\'ll probably be buying it.
I prefer to buy unscented. It

gives me more control, and I love being in complete control of how I smell. When its released, I would like to know

what the scented product smells like, to treat as a suggested cover scent.
I like beta at a discount rate. Fancy

packaging isn\'t as important as what\'s inside the bottle. Just as long as the bottle doesn\'t leak. I can

always transfer to a different bottle if this one is inconvenient.
It would be nice to know the phero composition

of this one, but if that\'s not released, I still trust Bruce to not sell a low quality product.
I am curious as

to the manufacturer, I guess a supplement mnufacture would have some experience in steroid synthesis.

Hope my

opinion helps,
B

[Unknownshadown20]

An unscented

version of AE would be nice, I just hope the price is lower to start off with.

[bjf]

An unscented in this case

should be somewhat scentless if it is lighter on the none and more on the NOL. AFA is pretty light smelling,

although I would suspect this would have some none smell. If it smells bad on its own and there was a scented

version, make sure its not some great unique scent. In other words make it a sandalwood or something that

universally combines with other scents.

Nothing clashing and make sure enough sandalwood is in

there.

BTW, this sounds a lot like AE/w, minus the horrible scent.

And beta all the way. Given that

there aren\'t any new mones, the ratio is all that is new and the 100 regulars or so have already spent over 100

bucks on the last two products, I don;t think a new product would be jumped all over at full price.

And I

would definitely try and do 5ml affordable bottles unless you are wanting to test the bottles too.

[dping28]

I would go with a

Unscented version, that way as I try out all these new cover scents I dont have to worry to much about the smells

clashing too bad. I understand unscented doesnt mean No smell but the least the better. a smaller beta version I

think would be nice, to give people an idea if its something they like. I too dont care much for the

bottle/packaging being fancy, infact I would prefer just a normal plain old bottle with an open top and maybe a

dropper. Just my 2 cents.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It has the same pheros as AE, but the combo is

different; heavier on the NOL and lighter on the NONE.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



Wouldn\'t it make it similar to AE/w? Or does this new product have more pheromones per bottle?

What makes

it special?

[bigdog]

If this is the

company\'s initial stab into mones I\'ll pass for now. I have to see the product prove itself.

[Quorum]

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
An unscented version of AE would be nice, I just hope the price is lower to

start off with.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I agree, I\'d rather see an unscented AE, as I

don\'t see much of a need for a different formula in terms of the mones. Why mess with success? Then again, it

doesn\'t matter much to me now, as I finally scraped up enough funds to order P10 this weekend, and should be

well-stocked for a LONG time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Helsinki]

I would get unscented,

and I would really like to see smaller, more affordble beta samples. Maybe only 2, 3 weeks worth.
The ratio with

more NOL and less NONE is exactly what I\'ve been looking for. I\'ll probably get some, but I\'d for sure bite

on a small sample at first...

[TopDawg2050]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

The ratio with more NOL and less NONE is exactly

what I\'ve been looking for.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Sounds good to me too, i like to use

SOE because of its -nol and -rone content -none doesnt seem to work well with me. Depending on what the scent was, i

would probably end up getting scented, im lazy. I would also like to see this product in a sample size, easier on

the budget and not that much of as loss if it doesnt work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif thanks

bruce! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[jose]

I\'m passing on this also,

I spent too much money on my credit card and the last 2 new products I purchased should hold me until next year.

Unless I hit the lottery then it\'s a different story.

[koolking1]

Big news, huge news,

and now - large news. I\'m 53, drink beer, and smoke weed - I need something more definitive please, totally

confusing as to which is which!!!!

I have bought Pheros, Chikara, and AE recently. I\'m happy, really happy,

with this grouping and will be ordering more of each so I don\'t think I\'d consider getting the new stuff till

after reading several user posts on here. I\'d likely go for the scented version as I\'ve little sense of smell

anymore anyways.

[koolking1]

Big news, huge news,

and now - large news. I\'m 53, drink beer, and smoke weed - I need something more definitive please, totally

confusing as to which is which!!!!

I have bought Pheros, Chikara, and AE recently. I\'m happy, really happy,

with this grouping and will be ordering more of each so I don\'t think I\'d consider getting the new stuff till

after reading several user posts on here. I\'d likely go for the scented version as I\'ve little sense of smell

anymore anyways.

[DrSmellThis]

I\'m hoping for

\"throbbing news\" when I release the next batch of Pheros.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[CptKipling]

Should\'a been Uber

news /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

What sort of price are we looking at?

I\'m very

pleased about the disclosure of the formula, it makes it a lot easier to use it with other products. I\'m not sure

about the water base though, I have always thought pheros wern\'t even water soluble

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Great work though Bruce

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Holmes]

Bruce,

For me it would

be either/or. I\'d buy the scented one if it had a nice fragrance like Pheros or Chikara.


Holmes

[belgareth]

It\'s great to see

new products being released but I will probably not buy it for a while. With both Pheros and Chikara to experiment

with, it will just make things too complicated to fully undderstand the results if I added another.

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
...I\'m not sure about the water base though, I

have always thought pheros wern\'t even water soluble

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Actually,

pheromones are not water soluble...they are steroidal molecules that are considered lipophilic. We invested a large

amount of time creating the proprietary water formula that is stable and effective.

We have applied for a patent

on our formula and cannot release the exact components until we receive issuance. However, we can release the

pheromone ratios and exact amounts of each!

Bobby

[DrSmellThis]

Bobby, how would you

describe the unique benefit of your new product?

[DrSmellThis]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
...I\'m not sure about the water base though, I have always thought pheros

wern\'t even water soluble /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">
Actually, pheromones are not water soluble...they are steroidal molecules that are considered

lipophilic. We invested a large amount of time creating the proprietary water formula that is stable and

effective.

We have applied for a patent on our formula and cannot release the exact components until we receive

issuance. However, we can release the pheromone ratios and exact amounts of each!

Bobby

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Maybe you cannot comment much on this without giving away your secrets,

Bobby, but pheromones are typically synthesized in an alcohol medium, which is then diluted with water. As long as

the pheromones stay dissolved there would be nothing stopping one from evaporating off the alcohol (or at least some

of it), over the course of a few days, and adding back enough water to keep fluid levels constant. If they did not

stay in solution, then presumably one would have to add something like a detergent to make the water an unfriendly

place for phero precipitation to occur. Having a suspension is also a possibility, which brings a possible role for

glycerine or bovine collagen (e.g., gelatin) to mind. (The same thing could be tried with oil and the ethanol

solution. I\'m not sure how Primal does it). The product Edge is already 50% water to ethanol.

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Bobby, how would you describe the unique benefit of

your new product?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Good question!

First, we have combined 3

pheromones in one convenient unit. I will defer the discussion of the pheromone ratio to my VP (who is still

waiting for his account to be activated). He has done extensive research into this area and his input will be more

detailed than my offering.

Second, the unique water based formula will allow for more ease of experimentation.

We have found that the water based forumula intensifies the pheromone smell. This observation is purely subjective

but as an example, take an oil based unscented product with the same basic ratios as our formula. If you compared

the intensity of the pheromone smell you will no doubt conclude that ours will be much stronger. This will lead

most to reduce the application amount and thus the unit will last much longer. Of course, this equates to higher

per unit value since it will last twice as long! As an alternative, if one found that even 1 squirt were still too

strong then they could simply dilute the unit with plain water (of course, distilled water is preferred here). Once

again, if they diluted the unit in half they would in essence have twice the volume at the same price...still an

outstanding value!

So, why does our product have more intense aromatic qualities? Simple: we do not use known

penetration enhancers for the solvent. I\'ll explore this topic more later but we have some interesting

conclusions that I\'m sure the membership here will enjoy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The

main unique feature of Perception is the versatility in which it can be utilized. In the future we will use this

fact to introduce products that have true value. For instance, we have found that the absolute solubility

(saturation point) of pheromones in our formula is 62.7 mg/mL. Do you want a concentrate that is truly concetrated?

We can offer you a solution to the problem that is still water based...more on this later.

Keep the questions

coming!

Bobby

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

Maybe you cannot comment much on this without

giving away your secrets, Bobby, but pheromones are typically synthesized in an alcohol medium, which is then

diluted with water. As long as the pheromones stay dissolved there would be nothing stopping one from evaporating

off the alcohol (or at least some of it), over the course of a few days, and adding back enough water to keep fluid

levels constant. If they did not stay in solution, then presumably one would have to add something like a detergent

to make the water an unfriendly place for phero precipitation to occur. Having a suspension is also a possibility,

which brings a possible role for glycerine or bovine collagen (e.g., gelatin) to mind. (The same thing could be

tried with oil and the ethanol solution. I\'m not sure how Primal does it). The product Edge is already 50% water

to ethanol.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
The only thing I can let out now is that it is a

proprietary polymer that we designed specifically for this application. We felt that typical or off the shelf

emulsifiers / detergents would add too much viscosity to make the atomizer practicable. So was born PSWB-5

(Pheromone Stabilizing Water Base - formula 5) polymer which is currently being reviewed for patent. So how

effective is the polymer? The formula is 99% water v/v /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Bobby

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

Maybe we

could get Bruce to jump in here and offer his feedback on the unscented (and scented) version.

What do you say

Bruce? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bobby

[bigdog]

It seems so similar to

other products we have been used (AE/AE/w). I would like to know if Bobby is familiar with these and how his is

different. Also if any trial tests have been conducted and what the results were.

[CptKipling]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
...I\'m not sure about the water base though, I have always thought pheros

wern\'t even water soluble /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">
Actually, pheromones are not water soluble...they are steroidal molecules that are considered

lipophilic. We invested a large amount of time creating the proprietary water formula that is stable and

effective.

We have applied for a patent on our formula and cannot release the exact components until we receive

issuance. However, we can release the pheromone ratios and exact amounts of each!

Bobby

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Thanks Bobby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[InternationalPlayboy]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Folks,

When it rains it pours. We have yet

another men\'s product coming down the tube. Could be another month or so before we have it in hand, but I have a

couple of initial questions I want to run by you guys.

1. Contrary to previous procedure, this product will

be released simultaneously in scented and unscented form. Imagine if you will, that you are about to purchase this

product, which would you be most inclinded to grab first, the scented or unscented? Or would it depend on what you

saw on the website?

2. Would you like to see this product start out in primitive form as a \"beta\" at a

discounted price or have you been beta-ed to death by now after Pheros and Chikara???

Any feedback

appreciated. By the way, looks/smells like a great product so far; reminds me of my first standard mix Primal and

APC. Interesting pheromone recipe; sort of a suped up AE. Supposed to be in a nice box but I haven\'t seen it

yet. The product is being manufactured by a top maker of body-building supplements.

Never a dull

moment,
B

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

1. I think right now, I personally would buy

the unscented version. I just blew about $60 on a bottle of Ralph Lauren Romance Silver right before Pheros was

released. With receiving Pheros and now Chikara, I have had no opportunity to use the RL product. The last two

releases from Love Scent smell so good, I\'m kind of sorry I spent money on the Silver. I even skipped sampling

any other fragrances on vacation in the big city as I was happy with Chikara and wanted to focus mainly on that last

week. Still want to try VS Very Sexy for Him though.

So I would prefer the unscented product to get some use

out of my other colognes. But if the scented is anywhere near as nice as Pheros and Chikara, I would want that

too.

2.I would like to see the new product as a \"beta\" package. I don\'t care that much about package

design right now and have a lot of L-S products to work with all of a sudden. And I intend to buy more Pheros as

soon as it\'s offered. I would like to try this new offering too, but hopefully at a \"trial price.\" If the

price was really nice, I might even order both scented and unscented at once.

[Matt_BdcConcepts]

Hey all,

I

thought I would jump in now that my account is activated and make a presence on the forum. I am Matt, VP of BDC

Concepts. I am very excited to initiate discussion with all fine gentlemen and ladies present here. Bobby went

ahead and presented the preliminary information about our water based formula, which in case you all haven\'t had

the chance to follow our thread in the health section, presents an incredible ability to experiment. Essentially, a

water based formula allows all of the pheromone enthusiasts out there to alter ratios simply by utilizing water. At

a first glance, this doesn\'t seem to be all that useful, however, one of the key characteristics about our

formula is that it avoids transdermal delivery. In other words, the majority of other products available contain

well known penetration enhancers typically used in transdermally delivery. To educate those unfamiliar, transdermal

delivery is the process by which certain compounds or chemicals are able to absorb through the skin. I will, at the

moment, leave out certain aspects of transdermal delivery which have been argued to asorb into certain tissue while

at the same time avoiding the blood stream. Transdermal delivery can be seen in many applications including the

nicotine and birth control patch. To sum things up, when using an ethanol or oil based substance, typically IPM, a

significant percentage of the product is delivered under the skin and further into other tissue rendering them

seemingly, innefective to the VMO. In case anyone is having a hard time making the connection, what we are

essentially asserting is that the dosages most commonly utilized with pheromone delivery are innacurate when

applying products that use a tradition ethanol or oil based formula. When considering precise dosages in the

microgram level, it is extremely important to know as much as we can about dosages applied. Transdermal uptake

happens over time, in that, a large percentage of the compound is absorbed quickly with more absorbition over the

course of a few hours. What makes Perception unique outside of its formula? Quite simply, you know exactly what

you are applying. You avoid uptake through transdermal delivery which makes the product that much stronger. We

have had the opportunity to work with Bruce on this project, which anyone who knows him will agree... he is a great

guy and a pleasure to work with. We thank him for the invite to the forum and allowing us the opportunity to share

our ideas and products. As Bobby explained in another thread, we stand by honesty and integrity with our mission

being to educate. We are very excited to be part of the team and look foward to more discussion.

Thanks
Matt

[bjf]

So is your product more

likely to stay at the top surface levels of the skin than others?

[metroman]

There is a lot of

conjecture on here about mone buildup from wearing it several days in a row, also overdosing from applying too much

at once. Would your delivery method in a water base, eliminate or reduce the likelihood of this occuring? Also can

you tell us a little more about the composition of this formula?

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So is your product more likely to stay at the top

surface levels of the skin than others?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Did I miss something or

isn\'t that pretty much what he just said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[bjf]

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So is your

product more likely to stay at the top surface levels of the skin than others?

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Did I miss something or isn\'t that pretty much what he just said.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Seemed to

be. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

This would be a good thing, for all those who believe

in build-up, as it would be easier to wash them off.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Hey all,

I thought I would jump in now that my

account is activated and make a presence on the forum. I am Matt, VP of BDC Concepts. I am very excited to

initiate discussion with all fine gentlemen and ladies present here. Bobby went ahead and presented the preliminary

information about our water based formula, which in case you all haven\'t had the chance to follow our thread in

the health section, presents an incredible ability to experiment. Essentially, a water based formula allows all of

the pheromone enthusiasts out there to alter ratios simply by utilizing water. At a first glance, this doesn\'t

seem to be all that useful, however, one of the key characteristics about our formula is that it avoids transdermal

delivery. In other words, the majority of other products available contain well known penetration enhancers

typically used in transdermally delivery. To educate those unfamiliar, transdermal delivery is the process by which

certain compounds or chemicals are able to absorb through the skin. I will, at the moment, leave out certain

aspects of transdermal delivery which have been argued to asorb into certain tissue while at the same time avoiding

the blood stream. Transdermal delivery can be seen in many applications including the nicotine and birth control

patch. To sum things up, when using an ethanol or oil based substance, typically IPM, a significant percentage of

the product is delivered under the skin and further into other tissue rendering them seemingly, innefective to the

VMO. In case anyone is having a hard time making the connection, what we are essentially asserting is that the

dosages most commonly utilized with pheromone delivery are innacurate when applying products that use a tradition

ethanol or oil based formula. When considering precise dosages in the microgram level, it is extremely important to

know as much as we can about dosages applied. Transdermal uptake happens over time, in that, a large percentage of

the compound is absorbed quickly with more absorbition over the course of a few hours. What makes Perception unique

outside of its formula? Quite simply, you know exactly what you are applying. You avoid uptake through transdermal

delivery which makes the product that much stronger. We have had the opportunity to work with Bruce on this

project, which anyone who knows him will agree... he is a great guy and a pleasure to work with. We thank him for

the invite to the forum and allowing us the opportunity to share our ideas and products. As Bobby explained in

another thread, we stand by honesty and integrity with our mission being to educate. We are very excited to be part

of the team and look foward to more discussion.

Thanks
Matt

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Welcome Matt,

Thanks for checking in w/ us. Your discussion of the tendency toward

trandermal delivery involved w/ traditional carriers, especially over time, may shed some light on the issue of

inconsistant results that some have seen or what many have noted to be a decline in effectiveness often attributed

merely to breakdown of the phero compounds. Certainly offers the possibility of new considerations. Hope to hear

more from you about this product and your phero knowledge, in general.

Keep in touch.

For those who have\'t

seen

this thread (\"http://http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=health&amp;Number=124200&amp

;page=0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1\") yet, there\'s an excellent discussion

concerning phero conversion. Be sure to check it out.

[Matt_BdcConcepts]

Sagacious,

Thanks to you and everyone us for having us. I think you and everyone else is starting to catch on

now when considering inconsistencies. Utilizing our background in transdermal technology as it relates to the

bodybuilding industry, we couldn\'t help but notice the traditional carriers were indeed penetration enhances.

Now, people in the transdermal world will debate all day long how much of substance x is delivered into the blood

stream (or other tissue for that matter) depending on the transdermal formula used. Ethanol and oils are incredibly

abundant in the pheromone world and interestingly enough were the chemical trailblazers most people interested in

transdermal delivery used. They are cheap, easy to find, and do the trick. Depending on the formula, more or less

absorption will be found. Lets for argument sake say that an ethanol or isopropyl myristate mixture can get about

20% of a hormone to permeate into the blood stream. Now, lets assume that a pheromone preparation is using one or

both of these in the mixture. Should the ratio be .02 none per application for example, what we would find total is

an uptake of 20% of the androstenone with the end result leaving .016mg. Not only is there less available None on

the skin diffusing into the air and causing reactions in people, the rate at which the None absorbs into the skin

takes place over time. Add that onto our natural and unavoidable rubbing, touching, and skin cell shedding and we

have some pretty inconsistent numbers. Because our water-based formula does not contain any penetration enhancers,

you avoid this uptake entirely. In terms of pheromone breakdown, conversion, and build up, check out the thread

that sagacious linked above for a current discussion of bacteria and its role or otherwise lack there of in

conversions, activations, etc. We are just starting to scratch the surface with a lot of new ideas and really enjoy

presenting them first to the love-scent community.

Thanks again,
Matt

[DrSmellThis]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sagacious,

Thanks to you and everyone us for

having us. I think you and everyone else is starting to catch on now when considering inconsistencies. Utilizing

our background in transdermal technology as it relates to the bodybuilding industry, we couldn\'t help but notice

the traditional carriers were indeed penetration enhances. Now, people in the transdermal world will debate all day

long how much of substance x is delivered into the blood stream (or other tissue for that matter) depending on the

transdermal formula used. Ethanol and oils are incredibly abundant in the pheromone world and interestingly enough

were the chemical trailblazers most people interested in transdermal delivery used. They are cheap, easy to find,

and do the trick. Depending on the formula, more or less absorption will be found. Lets for argument sake say that

an ethanol or isopropyl myristate mixture can get about 20% of a hormone to permeate into the blood stream. Now,

lets assume that a pheromone preparation is using one or both of these in the mixture. Should the ratio be .02 none

per application for example, what we would find total is an uptake of 20% of the androstenone with the end result

leaving .016mg. Not only is there less available None on the skin diffusing into the air and causing reactions in

people, the rate at which the None absorbs into the skin takes place over time. Add that onto our natural and

unavoidable rubbing, touching, and skin cell shedding and we have some pretty inconsistent numbers. Because our

water-based formula does not contain any penetration enhancers, you avoid this uptake entirely. In terms of

pheromone breakdown, conversion, and build up, check out the thread that sagacious linked above for a current

discussion of bacteria and its role or otherwise lack there of in conversions, activations, etc. We are just

starting to scratch the surface with a lot of new ideas and really enjoy presenting them first to the love-scent

community.

Thanks again,
Matt



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Good,

creative ideas from your company! Perfumers have known about this problem for a long time, and use denatured palm

oil for it\'s tendency to stay on the skin\'s surface and also act as sort of a sustained release agent (of

course, that wouldn\'t work with a sprayer) where such concerns are present. (To my knowledge, no one in the

pheromone business has tried that either, BTW.) Jojoba, by contrast, soaks right in, and is used extensively in the

aromatherapy business.

All absorption is not bad, particularly as regards essential oils, etc, as it can

enhance the participation of your body in creating the final musky effect and allow sustained release through

sweating. But with a pure pheromone product where dosage is critical, the water approach is a great one to have

access to, especially if you want to use a sprayer, as Bobby said. That also avoids the problem of killing off all

\"healthy\" skin bacteria with the alcohol, some of which are probably necessary for full \"activation\" of

pheromones and for controlling more opportunistic environmental bacteria. With some alcoholic products, it is

appropriate and possible to increase the percentage of water without special technology (as I did with my own

product, but not entirely without complications). But you have made some things much easier with your approach, and

are also contributing on the scientific end by enhancing experimentation, just as you say! I\'d buy it!

In

sum, I agree that your advance in delivery technology is also an advance for pheromone technology in general. I

think you\'ll find quite a number of adventuous, intellectually curious souls come through here and will fully

appreciate your efforts, perhaps moreso than other sites (though I miss some of the old regulars like Irish,

Whitehall and Scientist, to name a few -- come back!). I for one never suspected I would enjoy reading and

contributing to Bruce\'s forum as much as I in fact did.

Excellent job, guys; congratulations, and

welcome! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[bjf]

Doc, I ended up getting the

palm oil, and my results have been better than in the other methods I tried to keep the -mones at surface level (ie

clogging the pores, oscar told me a dangerous story about that doing that too

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). I know you don\'t like the smell, but you should see how it

goes for you. Afterall, the absorbtion will always happen with stone labs, lacroy stuff, etc.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Afterall, the absorbtion will always happen with

stone labs, lacroy stuff, etc.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



I\'m sure we\'re all

impressed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So if you knew so much about how these products

were prone to transdermal assimilation before it was mentioned by our new contributors, why haven\'t you mentioned

it before? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[bjf]

I had a clue, doc had the

answer.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

web page (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showfl

at.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB5&amp;Number=121451&amp;Forum=All_For ums&amp;Words=I%27ve%20been%20wondering%20if%20clogged

%20pores%20could%20be%20a%20good%20thing&amp;Match=Ent ire%20Phrase&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&am

p;Main=65694&amp;Search=true#Post121451\")

I got denatured, as directed.

[DrSmellThis]

Cool. I do keep a

little DPO on hand, and do find it useful at times. I plan on using it on a larger scale in the future as well. For

now, though, I am finding this new water approach very interesting. I am happy for Bruce that he is now attracting

most of the innovations in the field (since Pherin has shifted away from it in favor of pharmaceuticals these days).



BTW, if more interesting side topics come up, which seems likely with this bright new group of participants, we

should probably more them to a new thread so folks will have this thread to come to for learning about the new

product, Perception.

[Matt_BdcConcepts]

We are very

grateful for the feedback,

To answer some questions, specifically, why hasn\'t transdermal delivery really been

discussed at length before, well simply put, it was such a common aspect of typical colognes and perfumes before

that, based on my understanding, just seemed logical to bring it into the pheromone world. Unfortunately, and what

we are seeing here, is that the whole game changes when you add hormones to the equation. Whereas in the

bodybuilding world, we want to maximize absorption, here we want to reduce or eliminate it. More information will

be coming in terms of the overall product, design, formulation, and packaging considerations. We have no doubt that

you all will enjoy what we have to offer since the majority of it was designed with forum members in mind. That

being said, as DrSmellThis added, should more side topics come up, we should move them to a new thread. Hmmm, new

topics you say? Ok, check the pheromone discussion forum for a new twist on pheromone candles. Yes, beating a dead

horse on this topic, but the overall result was they were not possible or otherwise no one was interested in

pursuing it. For fun, I came up with this write up on making a pheromone candle, showing that is 100% possible and

actually, quite easy to do on your own! Damn, I hate a thread that gets off topic haha.

Thanks all,
Matt

[Bruce]

Folks,

Here are some

possible box designs. Which do you like

best?

http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box1.jpg (\"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box1.jpg\")

nhttp://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box2.jpg (\"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box2.jpg\")
http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box3.jpg (\

"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box3.jpg\")

We are

leaning towards #3 at this point as it makes room for directions and possibly a small fragrance additive for the

unscented version. Some thoughts on each from Bobby\'s notes:

BOX DESIGN #1
This box is the most compact and

basic design. For those retailers that value shelf space this will be their preferred display box. There is a

minimum of verbiage space for product / marketing description. This design will require an informational insert

within the box.

BOX DESIGN #2
This box is of the same dimensions as above but has a small product viewing window

on the side corner. This allows for better marketability of the product for brick and mortar locations but is still

constrained by the lack of verbiage space.

BOX DESIGN #3
This box is the largest of all and will allow for

versatility in product deployment with room to remain dynamic in meeting customer expectations. It incorporates a

modern look with a traditional viewing window that results in astounding marketability. In addition, the extra room

on the back of the box will allow for sufficient marketing and product description / directions for use /

precautions / etc. There is volume inside that will allow for an informational insert and also a proposed

concentrated fragrance. We were in agreement that this presentation stands the best chance of gaining

distributorship audience and hence contract. It presents the most cross market appeal and increased chance of

success at accomplishing common goals.

Bruce

[koolking1]

I suspect most forum

customers wouldn\'t care all that much.
Your limiting cost by reducing shipping charges as much as possible

should be a consideration, especially for non-USA customers.

[DZorro]

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Folks,

Here are some possible box designs. Which do you like

best?

http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box1.jpg (\"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box1.jpg\")

nhttp://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box2.jpg (\"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box2.jpg\")
http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box3.jpg (\

"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box3.jpg\")

We are

leaning towards #3 at this point as it makes room for directions and possibly a small fragrance additive for the

unscented version. Some thoughts on each from Bobby\'s notes:

BOX DESIGN #1
This box is the most compact and

basic design. For those retailers that value shelf space this will be their preferred display box. There is a

minimum of verbiage space for product / marketing description. This design will require an informational insert

within the box.

BOX DESIGN #2
This box is of the same dimensions as above but has a small product viewing window

on the side corner. This allows for better marketability of the product for brick and mortar locations but is still

constrained by the lack of verbiage space.

BOX DESIGN #3
This box is the largest of all and will allow for

versatility in product deployment with room to remain dynamic in meeting customer expectations. It incorporates a

modern look with a traditional viewing window that results in astounding marketability. In addition, the extra room

on the back of the box will allow for sufficient marketing and product description / directions for use /

precautions / etc. There is volume inside that will allow for an informational insert and also a proposed

concentrated fragrance. We were in agreement that this presentation stands the best chance of gaining

distributorship audience and hence contract. It presents the most cross market appeal and increased chance of

success at accomplishing common goals.

Bruce

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

The third box

look great.


DZorro,

[Helsinki]

I like the look of the

first one. It\'s sheek.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

I would prefer

Box1 too.

[Holmes]

I like the first box,

too, though I understand why you\'re leaning toward the third.


Holmes

[jose]

Box #1 is better and it

won\'t take up much space in a shipping yellow package.

[dping28]

I my self would prefer

box1. I dont care too much about the packaging. All I care about is the product it self. You could forget the box

all together and I would still be happy. Though the scent additive is an interesting idea.

[CptKipling]

#3 for me

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

...especially if you are including a concentrated fragrance.

[bundyburger]

Don\'t like #2.

Those types of packs always crumple and look sh!t if not handled right. Like #1 best.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Bruce\'s explanation about why #3 would be better makes

sense and I guess most customers would like to learn as much about the product from the info on the box as they can

get. I know I do.

#1 would be perfect for mail-orders, where the customer has allready go tthe info from

else where. I suppose #3 for the display shelf.

[SyraBrian]

An unscented version

in the #1 box, please! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Watcher]

Interesting step forward

here - well im keeping my credit card finger ready lol - these new approaches to the deliver and penetration of

pheromones are well worth pursuing.

Im sure that the next step knowing LC is the mixing of this product with

ohter products for our combos. So many new pheromone compounds to play with - if this one is discounted enough as a

trail offer to get some orders and feedback happening then yes my order will go in - as others have said some of us

have been playing with so much recently the wallets are out and credits maxed - so many new toys and not enough $$$$

lol.

Pheros has worked great and chikara and perception look to be next on my list + some more P10 (as u guys can

see about $500 once i get some NPA, SOE and AE to go along with that.)

If all these new products can sell

significant volumes and remain viable and LC can get more customers then that is good.

[camusflage]

I like box 3. It\'s

the classiest (IMHO) and it reminds me of my beloved M7 cologne bottle.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DCW]

Just curious what kind of

tests were done previously with this product or are the LS fourm members to be guinea pigs (for lack of a better

word)for this product?

DCW

[BDC_Concepts]

Just curious what

kind of tests were done previously with this product or are the LS fourm members to be guinea pigs (for lack of a

better word)for this product?

DCW



The Love-Scent community will be the first fully

nation wide market to officially test Perception however a significant number of tests were done in local areas

regarding the formula to assess results. It would be almost a waste to type out the results we received from our

paper handout as they varied just as much as anything else does, however, the important part, and the focus of the

product formulation itself was RESULTS itself. The problem with the field tests were the same issues that bind the

pheromone world, i.e. an inherent change in behavior regardless of how hard you try not to, when trying to assess

results in people who are aware. In other words, even if you go to the same place, same night, wear the same

amount, wash and clean yourself the same, go with the same people, drink the same amount (if your at a bar), drink

the same thing, time it out, and attempt to control as much as you can, testers will inherently change their

behavior because they are LOOKING for results. That being said, I had a fun time testing it on a number of people

when they weren't aware of it :D, but the costs associated with funding a double blind peer reviewed study are

incredibly hefty. That being said, we won't bring any wild claims about getting all the women, or feed you lines

that you will double the amount of women you normally get. Everyone here is aware that pheromones are an edge. If

you have no social skills, are completely unattractive without making any effort to look decent, and don't get out

of your shell, well, good luck. The formula was specifically designed to get ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, by that I

mean, anything that can get a look, a conversation, interaction, a second chance, smile, ANYTHING to give you that

slight edge whereas normally you might not receive that. Clearly we are dedicated to the scientific aspect of

pheromone delivery, as displayed with our water-based formula, and with that, big on trying to remove the

inconsistencies that plague our pheromone world. Below I will post the product description for Perception. It

explains how the product is unique, what it will bring to the community, and the formula ratio - which by the way,

if you’re a regular here, you will find similar to some effective home brew

preparations.

PERCEPTION:

From the scientific minds behind BDC Nutrition, BDC Concepts is proud to

make its presence in the pheromone market with the introduction of Perception, the next step in pheromone

development. Featuring 4mg of pheromones, in a unique and powerfully effective ratio, Perception represents a large

leap forward for the industry. Perception contains three human pheromones, androstenol, androstenone, and

androsterone, in a 4:2:2 ratio respectively. Recognizing the need for a product containing three powerful pheromones

(nol, none, and rone) with a convenient application method, Perception contains 2mg of androstenol, 1mg of

androstenone, and 1 mg of androsterone. BDC Concepts took Perception a few steps further to create a truly one of a

kind product unseen in the pheromone industry.

Scented VS Unscented:

Research on consumer needs

yielded mixed results when considering the choice between a scented and an unscented product. Some users want the

ability to use their own fragrance while others enjoy the convenience of an all-in-one product. Wanting to satisfy

all demographics, Perception contains a 10ml atomizer of our unique unscented pheromone formula. In addition, a 5ml

atomizer is included providing our unique, sexy, and sophisticated concentrated fragrance. Perception effectively

allows the user to vary and experiment with pheromone dosages without being bound to fragrance strength. In

addition, both atomizers are unmarked and reusable concealing the source of your charm making the purchase that much

more enticing. The key to the provided fragrance is to take advantage of our patent pending formula!

The

Formula:

We realized there would be nothing really special about adding a 5ml atomizer of fragrance to the

product besides an added incentive or otherwise the idea that a buyer is getting more for their money, that is,

unless our formula was unique. Indeed that is the case with Perception's water based formula. Essentially, a

water-based formula allows all of the pheromone enthusiasts out there to alter ratios simply by utilizing water. At

a first glance, this doesn't seem to be all that useful, however, one of the key characteristics about our formula

is that it avoids transdermal delivery. In other words, the majority of other products available contain well-known

penetration enhancers typically used in transdermal delivery. Transdermal delivery is widely seen many products

including the nicotine path, birth control patch, and is described the process by which certain compounds or

chemicals are able to absorb through the skin using certain mediums. I will, at the moment, leave out certain

aspects of transdermal delivery which have been argued to absorb into certain tissue while at the same time avoiding

the blood stream. To elaborate, when using an ethanol or oil based substance, typically IPM, a significant

percentage of the product is delivered under the skin and further into other tissue rendering them seemingly,

ineffective to the VMO. In case the connection is not clear, BDC Concepts is asserting that the dosages most

commonly utilized with pheromone delivery are inaccurate when applying products that use a tradition ethanol or oil

based formula. When considering precise dosages in the microgram level, it is extremely important to know as much as

we can about dosages applied. Transdermal uptake happens over time, in that, a large percentage of the compound is

absorbed quickly with more absorption over the course of a few hours. What makes Perception unique outside of its

creative pheromone ration? Quite simply, you know exactly what you are applying. You avoid uptake through

transdermal delivery which makes the product that much stronger. Both the 10ml unscented formula and its 5ml

fragrance counterpart contain our unique water based formula, so there is no fear of transdermal uptake through

applying the pheromones and scent to the same spot on the body.

Application:

Perception's precise

10ml atomizer delivers 0.1ml per spray providing for .02mg nol, .01mg none, and .01mg of rone per spray. Suggested

application is 2 full sprays to deliver .04 nol, .02 none, and .02 rone. Feel free to experiment with dosages as

successful amounts vary from person to person. Should you prefer a different cover scent, apply the Perception

formula and your cover scent to separate areas to avoid transdermal uptake. Note: This only applies to body

application, as clothing would not make a difference. Because of the water-based formula, you may apply the

Perception formula and provided fragrance to the same location on the body.

Summary:

Perception is the

first and only product available to offer scented and unscented capabilities in one product. No longer will

customers have to take a risk and wonder if the fragrance will be pleasant. Perception is also the first and only

product available to bypass transdermal uptake, making dosages more precise and avoid certain aspects associated

with pheromone buildup. Lastly, Perception caters to the needs of pheromone enthusiasts allowing for ratio

alteration simply by adding more water. Contained in an attractive package with reusable atomizers, while being cost

effective renders Perception a product unrivaled in the industry.

[real_wiseman]

So when does it start to

ship?

// W

[Bruce]

I was told 2-4

weeks.

Bruce


So when does it start to ship?

// W

[Chemo (BDC Concepts)]

As Bruce said, we

should have product on his shelves in 2-4 weeks!

Bobby

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

How much will it

cost?

[Bruce]

Should be the same as AE and SOE,

$49.95.

Bruce

[bjf]

I just thought I'd bump this up with

Perception coming out in the next week or so. Even for those who already read it, it is an interesting read to go

through again.

[ManBeast]

Heh, Chemo knows his stuff...

He created a transdermal gel that still whoops on what the "big" guys are offering... I'm very exited to see how

well this product works.

MB

[Bruce]

Yeah, Chemo is quite a guy. Very

exciting to work with on this project so far. I've had samples for quite a while, but am still dying to see the

final product.

I think we should have a clear ETA early next week.

Bruce

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Yeah, Chemo is

quite a guy. Very exciting to work with on this project so far. I've had samples for quite a while, but am still

dying to see the final product.

I think we should have a clear ETA early next week.

BruceHave you

tried the product, Bruce? If so, have you noticed any differences in the reactions of other people (compared to AE,

for example)? :think:

[CptKipling]

I somehow missed the last few

posts, but anyways...

This product is very exciting, particularly for me because the ratios are similar to ones I

do indeed like to "home-brew-up".

I also like the scented/unscented combo, great stuff! :thumbsup:

As a

little side note, because of the ratios of the pheros in Perception, I would guess that it isn't overly stinky

without a coverscent, no?