View Full Version : Large News
Bruce
05-17-2004, 02:42 PM
Folks,
When it rains it
pours. We have yet another men\'s product coming down the tube. Could be another month or so before we have it
in hand, but I have a couple of initial questions I want to run by you guys.
1. Contrary to previous procedure,
this product will be released simultaneously in scented and unscented form. Imagine if you will, that you are about
to purchase this product, which would you be most inclinded to grab first, the scented or unscented? Or would it
depend on what you saw on the website?
2. Would you like to see this product start out in primitive form as a
\"beta\" at a discounted price or have you been beta-ed to death by now after Pheros and Chikara???
Any
feedback appreciated. By the way, looks/smells like a great product so far; reminds me of my first standard mix
Primal and APC. Interesting pheromone recipe; sort of a suped up AE. Supposed to be in a nice box but I haven\'t
seen it yet. The product is being manufactured by a top maker of body-building supplements.
Never a dull
moment,
B
franki
05-17-2004, 02:47 PM
Bruce, my credit cards get
maxed out by all these new products.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
By the sound of it, this
product won\'t be as revolutionary as Chikara.
1 - I would pick the unscented
Question : With -beta do you
mean there is gonna be a questionaire like with WAGG and Chikara? If so, are the ingredients going to be secret
again??
Mtnjim
05-17-2004, 02:48 PM
I probably would take the
unscented--like to \"roll-my-own\" if you know what I mean. If you are going to \"beta\" perhaps you could get
\"sample sized\" bottles and issue them for a \"real good price\"?
Is this in the AE/P-10 field, or is there
something new in it??
ToBeOrNotToBe
05-17-2004, 02:53 PM
I would pick the
unscented one, unless anyone reported that it would be wise to choose the scented version.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Interesting pheromone recipe; sort of a suped up
AE.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Can you tell us anything else about it?
Bruce
05-17-2004, 02:58 PM
Good questions and
feedback; thanks.
This product is in the AE class, and the contents will be 100% disclosed, you will be glad to
hear. At first I figured \"Well, back to back, Pheros and Chikara are going to be a couple of hard acts to
follow\", but there is something special to this new product (\"Perception\") in its own way. It has the same
pheros as AE, but the combo is different; heavier on the NOL and lighter on the NONE.
B
bigdog
05-17-2004, 02:59 PM
The Pheromone Revolution
has kicked into high gear. A body building company now getting into the fray too. Hopefully the Federal Government
doesn\'t get toom much of a whiff and try to make an example of these products as they did ephedrine.
einstein
05-17-2004, 03:04 PM
It seems I\'ve got
more curiosity than common sense. Beta or not, I\'ll probably be buying it.
I prefer to buy unscented. It
gives me more control, and I love being in complete control of how I smell. When its released, I would like to know
what the scented product smells like, to treat as a suggested cover scent.
I like beta at a discount rate. Fancy
packaging isn\'t as important as what\'s inside the bottle. Just as long as the bottle doesn\'t leak. I can
always transfer to a different bottle if this one is inconvenient.
It would be nice to know the phero composition
of this one, but if that\'s not released, I still trust Bruce to not sell a low quality product.
I am curious as
to the manufacturer, I guess a supplement mnufacture would have some experience in steroid synthesis.
Hope my
opinion helps,
B
Unknownshadown20
05-17-2004, 03:08 PM
An unscented
version of AE would be nice, I just hope the price is lower to start off with.
An unscented in this case
should be somewhat scentless if it is lighter on the none and more on the NOL. AFA is pretty light smelling,
although I would suspect this would have some none smell. If it smells bad on its own and there was a scented
version, make sure its not some great unique scent. In other words make it a sandalwood or something that
universally combines with other scents.
Nothing clashing and make sure enough sandalwood is in
there.
BTW, this sounds a lot like AE/w, minus the horrible scent.
And beta all the way. Given that
there aren\'t any new mones, the ratio is all that is new and the 100 regulars or so have already spent over 100
bucks on the last two products, I don;t think a new product would be jumped all over at full price.
And I
would definitely try and do 5ml affordable bottles unless you are wanting to test the bottles too.
dping28
05-17-2004, 03:42 PM
I would go with a
Unscented version, that way as I try out all these new cover scents I dont have to worry to much about the smells
clashing too bad. I understand unscented doesnt mean No smell but the least the better. a smaller beta version I
think would be nice, to give people an idea if its something they like. I too dont care much for the
bottle/packaging being fancy, infact I would prefer just a normal plain old bottle with an open top and maybe a
dropper. Just my 2 cents.
ToBeOrNotToBe
05-17-2004, 03:42 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It has the same pheros as AE, but the combo is
different; heavier on the NOL and lighter on the NONE.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Wouldn\'t it make it similar to AE/w? Or does this new product have more pheromones per bottle?
What makes
it special?
bigdog
05-17-2004, 03:50 PM
If this is the
company\'s initial stab into mones I\'ll pass for now. I have to see the product prove itself.
Quorum
05-17-2004, 03:53 PM
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
An unscented version of AE would be nice, I just hope the price is lower to
start off with.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I agree, I\'d rather see an unscented AE, as I
don\'t see much of a need for a different formula in terms of the mones. Why mess with success? Then again, it
doesn\'t matter much to me now, as I finally scraped up enough funds to order P10 this weekend, and should be
well-stocked for a LONG time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Helsinki
05-17-2004, 06:12 PM
I would get unscented,
and I would really like to see smaller, more affordble beta samples. Maybe only 2, 3 weeks worth.
The ratio with
more NOL and less NONE is exactly what I\'ve been looking for. I\'ll probably get some, but I\'d for sure bite
on a small sample at first...
TopDawg2050
05-17-2004, 07:20 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The ratio with more NOL and less NONE is exactly
what I\'ve been looking for.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Sounds good to me too, i like to use
SOE because of its -nol and -rone content -none doesnt seem to work well with me. Depending on what the scent was, i
would probably end up getting scented, im lazy. I would also like to see this product in a sample size, easier on
the budget and not that much of as loss if it doesnt work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif thanks
bruce! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I\'m passing on this also,
I spent too much money on my credit card and the last 2 new products I purchased should hold me until next year.
Unless I hit the lottery then it\'s a different story.
koolking1
05-17-2004, 08:32 PM
Big news, huge news,
and now - large news. I\'m 53, drink beer, and smoke weed - I need something more definitive please, totally
confusing as to which is which!!!!
I have bought Pheros, Chikara, and AE recently. I\'m happy, really happy,
with this grouping and will be ordering more of each so I don\'t think I\'d consider getting the new stuff till
after reading several user posts on here. I\'d likely go for the scented version as I\'ve little sense of smell
anymore anyways.
koolking1
05-17-2004, 08:32 PM
Big news, huge news,
and now - large news. I\'m 53, drink beer, and smoke weed - I need something more definitive please, totally
confusing as to which is which!!!!
I have bought Pheros, Chikara, and AE recently. I\'m happy, really happy,
with this grouping and will be ordering more of each so I don\'t think I\'d consider getting the new stuff till
after reading several user posts on here. I\'d likely go for the scented version as I\'ve little sense of smell
anymore anyways.
DrSmellThis
05-17-2004, 09:29 PM
I\'m hoping for
\"throbbing news\" when I release the next batch of Pheros.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
CptKipling
05-18-2004, 09:19 AM
Should\'a been Uber
news /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
What sort of price are we looking at?
I\'m very
pleased about the disclosure of the formula, it makes it a lot easier to use it with other products. I\'m not sure
about the water base though, I have always thought pheros wern\'t even water soluble
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Great work though Bruce
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Holmes
05-18-2004, 09:23 AM
Bruce,
For me it would
be either/or. I\'d buy the scented one if it had a nice fragrance like Pheros or Chikara.
Holmes
belgareth
05-18-2004, 09:36 AM
It\'s great to see
new products being released but I will probably not buy it for a while. With both Pheros and Chikara to experiment
with, it will just make things too complicated to fully undderstand the results if I added another.
Chemo (BDC Concepts)
05-18-2004, 11:38 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
...I\'m not sure about the water base though, I
have always thought pheros wern\'t even water soluble
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Actually,
pheromones are not water soluble...they are steroidal molecules that are considered lipophilic. We invested a large
amount of time creating the proprietary water formula that is stable and effective.
We have applied for a patent
on our formula and cannot release the exact components until we receive issuance. However, we can release the
pheromone ratios and exact amounts of each!
Bobby
DrSmellThis
05-18-2004, 11:54 AM
Bobby, how would you
describe the unique benefit of your new product?
DrSmellThis
05-18-2004, 12:39 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
...I\'m not sure about the water base though, I have always thought pheros
wern\'t even water soluble /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Actually, pheromones are not water soluble...they are steroidal molecules that are considered
lipophilic. We invested a large amount of time creating the proprietary water formula that is stable and
effective.
We have applied for a patent on our formula and cannot release the exact components until we receive
issuance. However, we can release the pheromone ratios and exact amounts of each!
Bobby
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Maybe you cannot comment much on this without giving away your secrets,
Bobby, but pheromones are typically synthesized in an alcohol medium, which is then diluted with water. As long as
the pheromones stay dissolved there would be nothing stopping one from evaporating off the alcohol (or at least some
of it), over the course of a few days, and adding back enough water to keep fluid levels constant. If they did not
stay in solution, then presumably one would have to add something like a detergent to make the water an unfriendly
place for phero precipitation to occur. Having a suspension is also a possibility, which brings a possible role for
glycerine or bovine collagen (e.g., gelatin) to mind. (The same thing could be tried with oil and the ethanol
solution. I\'m not sure how Primal does it). The product Edge is already 50% water to ethanol.
Chemo (BDC Concepts)
05-18-2004, 12:53 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Bobby, how would you describe the unique benefit of
your new product?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Good question!
First, we have combined 3
pheromones in one convenient unit. I will defer the discussion of the pheromone ratio to my VP (who is still
waiting for his account to be activated). He has done extensive research into this area and his input will be more
detailed than my offering.
Second, the unique water based formula will allow for more ease of experimentation.
We have found that the water based forumula intensifies the pheromone smell. This observation is purely subjective
but as an example, take an oil based unscented product with the same basic ratios as our formula. If you compared
the intensity of the pheromone smell you will no doubt conclude that ours will be much stronger. This will lead
most to reduce the application amount and thus the unit will last much longer. Of course, this equates to higher
per unit value since it will last twice as long! As an alternative, if one found that even 1 squirt were still too
strong then they could simply dilute the unit with plain water (of course, distilled water is preferred here). Once
again, if they diluted the unit in half they would in essence have twice the volume at the same price...still an
outstanding value!
So, why does our product have more intense aromatic qualities? Simple: we do not use known
penetration enhancers for the solvent. I\'ll explore this topic more later but we have some interesting
conclusions that I\'m sure the membership here will enjoy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
The
main unique feature of Perception is the versatility in which it can be utilized. In the future we will use this
fact to introduce products that have true value. For instance, we have found that the absolute solubility
(saturation point) of pheromones in our formula is 62.7 mg/mL. Do you want a concentrate that is truly concetrated?
We can offer you a solution to the problem that is still water based...more on this later.
Keep the questions
coming!
Bobby
Chemo (BDC Concepts)
05-18-2004, 01:03 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe you cannot comment much on this without
giving away your secrets, Bobby, but pheromones are typically synthesized in an alcohol medium, which is then
diluted with water. As long as the pheromones stay dissolved there would be nothing stopping one from evaporating
off the alcohol (or at least some of it), over the course of a few days, and adding back enough water to keep fluid
levels constant. If they did not stay in solution, then presumably one would have to add something like a detergent
to make the water an unfriendly place for phero precipitation to occur. Having a suspension is also a possibility,
which brings a possible role for glycerine or bovine collagen (e.g., gelatin) to mind. (The same thing could be
tried with oil and the ethanol solution. I\'m not sure how Primal does it). The product Edge is already 50% water
to ethanol.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
The only thing I can let out now is that it is a
proprietary polymer that we designed specifically for this application. We felt that typical or off the shelf
emulsifiers / detergents would add too much viscosity to make the atomizer practicable. So was born PSWB-5
(Pheromone Stabilizing Water Base - formula 5) polymer which is currently being reviewed for patent. So how
effective is the polymer? The formula is 99% water v/v /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Bobby
Chemo (BDC Concepts)
05-18-2004, 01:08 PM
Maybe we
could get Bruce to jump in here and offer his feedback on the unscented (and scented) version.
What do you say
Bruce? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Bobby
bigdog
05-18-2004, 01:55 PM
It seems so similar to
other products we have been used (AE/AE/w). I would like to know if Bobby is familiar with these and how his is
different. Also if any trial tests have been conducted and what the results were.
CptKipling
05-19-2004, 09:15 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
...I\'m not sure about the water base though, I have always thought pheros
wern\'t even water soluble /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Actually, pheromones are not water soluble...they are steroidal molecules that are considered
lipophilic. We invested a large amount of time creating the proprietary water formula that is stable and
effective.
We have applied for a patent on our formula and cannot release the exact components until we receive
issuance. However, we can release the pheromone ratios and exact amounts of each!
Bobby
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Thanks Bobby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
InternationalPlayboy
05-19-2004, 02:19 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Folks,
When it rains it pours. We have yet
another men\'s product coming down the tube. Could be another month or so before we have it in hand, but I have a
couple of initial questions I want to run by you guys.
1. Contrary to previous procedure, this product will
be released simultaneously in scented and unscented form. Imagine if you will, that you are about to purchase this
product, which would you be most inclinded to grab first, the scented or unscented? Or would it depend on what you
saw on the website?
2. Would you like to see this product start out in primitive form as a \"beta\" at a
discounted price or have you been beta-ed to death by now after Pheros and Chikara???
Any feedback
appreciated. By the way, looks/smells like a great product so far; reminds me of my first standard mix Primal and
APC. Interesting pheromone recipe; sort of a suped up AE. Supposed to be in a nice box but I haven\'t seen it
yet. The product is being manufactured by a top maker of body-building supplements.
Never a dull
moment,
B
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
1. I think right now, I personally would buy
the unscented version. I just blew about $60 on a bottle of Ralph Lauren Romance Silver right before Pheros was
released. With receiving Pheros and now Chikara, I have had no opportunity to use the RL product. The last two
releases from Love Scent smell so good, I\'m kind of sorry I spent money on the Silver. I even skipped sampling
any other fragrances on vacation in the big city as I was happy with Chikara and wanted to focus mainly on that last
week. Still want to try VS Very Sexy for Him though.
So I would prefer the unscented product to get some use
out of my other colognes. But if the scented is anywhere near as nice as Pheros and Chikara, I would want that
too.
2.I would like to see the new product as a \"beta\" package. I don\'t care that much about package
design right now and have a lot of L-S products to work with all of a sudden. And I intend to buy more Pheros as
soon as it\'s offered. I would like to try this new offering too, but hopefully at a \"trial price.\" If the
price was really nice, I might even order both scented and unscented at once.
Matt_BdcConcepts
05-19-2004, 03:15 PM
Hey all,
I
thought I would jump in now that my account is activated and make a presence on the forum. I am Matt, VP of BDC
Concepts. I am very excited to initiate discussion with all fine gentlemen and ladies present here. Bobby went
ahead and presented the preliminary information about our water based formula, which in case you all haven\'t had
the chance to follow our thread in the health section, presents an incredible ability to experiment. Essentially, a
water based formula allows all of the pheromone enthusiasts out there to alter ratios simply by utilizing water. At
a first glance, this doesn\'t seem to be all that useful, however, one of the key characteristics about our
formula is that it avoids transdermal delivery. In other words, the majority of other products available contain
well known penetration enhancers typically used in transdermally delivery. To educate those unfamiliar, transdermal
delivery is the process by which certain compounds or chemicals are able to absorb through the skin. I will, at the
moment, leave out certain aspects of transdermal delivery which have been argued to asorb into certain tissue while
at the same time avoiding the blood stream. Transdermal delivery can be seen in many applications including the
nicotine and birth control patch. To sum things up, when using an ethanol or oil based substance, typically IPM, a
significant percentage of the product is delivered under the skin and further into other tissue rendering them
seemingly, innefective to the VMO. In case anyone is having a hard time making the connection, what we are
essentially asserting is that the dosages most commonly utilized with pheromone delivery are innacurate when
applying products that use a tradition ethanol or oil based formula. When considering precise dosages in the
microgram level, it is extremely important to know as much as we can about dosages applied. Transdermal uptake
happens over time, in that, a large percentage of the compound is absorbed quickly with more absorbition over the
course of a few hours. What makes Perception unique outside of its formula? Quite simply, you know exactly what
you are applying. You avoid uptake through transdermal delivery which makes the product that much stronger. We
have had the opportunity to work with Bruce on this project, which anyone who knows him will agree... he is a great
guy and a pleasure to work with. We thank him for the invite to the forum and allowing us the opportunity to share
our ideas and products. As Bobby explained in another thread, we stand by honesty and integrity with our mission
being to educate. We are very excited to be part of the team and look foward to more discussion.
Thanks
Matt
So is your product more
likely to stay at the top surface levels of the skin than others?
metroman
05-19-2004, 03:32 PM
There is a lot of
conjecture on here about mone buildup from wearing it several days in a row, also overdosing from applying too much
at once. Would your delivery method in a water base, eliminate or reduce the likelihood of this occuring? Also can
you tell us a little more about the composition of this formula?
Sagacious1420
05-19-2004, 03:40 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So is your product more likely to stay at the top
surface levels of the skin than others?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Did I miss something or
isn\'t that pretty much what he just said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So is your
product more likely to stay at the top surface levels of the skin than others?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Did I miss something or isn\'t that pretty much what he just said.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Seemed to
be. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
This would be a good thing, for all those who believe
in build-up, as it would be easier to wash them off.
Sagacious1420
05-19-2004, 03:52 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Hey all,
I thought I would jump in now that my
account is activated and make a presence on the forum. I am Matt, VP of BDC Concepts. I am very excited to
initiate discussion with all fine gentlemen and ladies present here. Bobby went ahead and presented the preliminary
information about our water based formula, which in case you all haven\'t had the chance to follow our thread in
the health section, presents an incredible ability to experiment. Essentially, a water based formula allows all of
the pheromone enthusiasts out there to alter ratios simply by utilizing water. At a first glance, this doesn\'t
seem to be all that useful, however, one of the key characteristics about our formula is that it avoids transdermal
delivery. In other words, the majority of other products available contain well known penetration enhancers
typically used in transdermally delivery. To educate those unfamiliar, transdermal delivery is the process by which
certain compounds or chemicals are able to absorb through the skin. I will, at the moment, leave out certain
aspects of transdermal delivery which have been argued to asorb into certain tissue while at the same time avoiding
the blood stream. Transdermal delivery can be seen in many applications including the nicotine and birth control
patch. To sum things up, when using an ethanol or oil based substance, typically IPM, a significant percentage of
the product is delivered under the skin and further into other tissue rendering them seemingly, innefective to the
VMO. In case anyone is having a hard time making the connection, what we are essentially asserting is that the
dosages most commonly utilized with pheromone delivery are innacurate when applying products that use a tradition
ethanol or oil based formula. When considering precise dosages in the microgram level, it is extremely important to
know as much as we can about dosages applied. Transdermal uptake happens over time, in that, a large percentage of
the compound is absorbed quickly with more absorbition over the course of a few hours. What makes Perception unique
outside of its formula? Quite simply, you know exactly what you are applying. You avoid uptake through transdermal
delivery which makes the product that much stronger. We have had the opportunity to work with Bruce on this
project, which anyone who knows him will agree... he is a great guy and a pleasure to work with. We thank him for
the invite to the forum and allowing us the opportunity to share our ideas and products. As Bobby explained in
another thread, we stand by honesty and integrity with our mission being to educate. We are very excited to be part
of the team and look foward to more discussion.
Thanks
Matt
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Welcome Matt,
Thanks for checking in w/ us. Your discussion of the tendency toward
trandermal delivery involved w/ traditional carriers, especially over time, may shed some light on the issue of
inconsistant results that some have seen or what many have noted to be a decline in effectiveness often attributed
merely to breakdown of the phero compounds. Certainly offers the possibility of new considerations. Hope to hear
more from you about this product and your phero knowledge, in general.
Keep in touch.
For those who have\'t
seen
this thread (\"http://http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=health&Number=124200&
;page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1\") yet, there\'s an excellent discussion
concerning phero conversion. Be sure to check it out.
Matt_BdcConcepts
05-19-2004, 05:07 PM
Sagacious,
Thanks to you and everyone us for having us. I think you and everyone else is starting to catch on
now when considering inconsistencies. Utilizing our background in transdermal technology as it relates to the
bodybuilding industry, we couldn\'t help but notice the traditional carriers were indeed penetration enhances.
Now, people in the transdermal world will debate all day long how much of substance x is delivered into the blood
stream (or other tissue for that matter) depending on the transdermal formula used. Ethanol and oils are incredibly
abundant in the pheromone world and interestingly enough were the chemical trailblazers most people interested in
transdermal delivery used. They are cheap, easy to find, and do the trick. Depending on the formula, more or less
absorption will be found. Lets for argument sake say that an ethanol or isopropyl myristate mixture can get about
20% of a hormone to permeate into the blood stream. Now, lets assume that a pheromone preparation is using one or
both of these in the mixture. Should the ratio be .02 none per application for example, what we would find total is
an uptake of 20% of the androstenone with the end result leaving .016mg. Not only is there less available None on
the skin diffusing into the air and causing reactions in people, the rate at which the None absorbs into the skin
takes place over time. Add that onto our natural and unavoidable rubbing, touching, and skin cell shedding and we
have some pretty inconsistent numbers. Because our water-based formula does not contain any penetration enhancers,
you avoid this uptake entirely. In terms of pheromone breakdown, conversion, and build up, check out the thread
that sagacious linked above for a current discussion of bacteria and its role or otherwise lack there of in
conversions, activations, etc. We are just starting to scratch the surface with a lot of new ideas and really enjoy
presenting them first to the love-scent community.
Thanks again,
Matt
DrSmellThis
05-19-2004, 06:46 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sagacious,
Thanks to you and everyone us for
having us. I think you and everyone else is starting to catch on now when considering inconsistencies. Utilizing
our background in transdermal technology as it relates to the bodybuilding industry, we couldn\'t help but notice
the traditional carriers were indeed penetration enhances. Now, people in the transdermal world will debate all day
long how much of substance x is delivered into the blood stream (or other tissue for that matter) depending on the
transdermal formula used. Ethanol and oils are incredibly abundant in the pheromone world and interestingly enough
were the chemical trailblazers most people interested in transdermal delivery used. They are cheap, easy to find,
and do the trick. Depending on the formula, more or less absorption will be found. Lets for argument sake say that
an ethanol or isopropyl myristate mixture can get about 20% of a hormone to permeate into the blood stream. Now,
lets assume that a pheromone preparation is using one or both of these in the mixture. Should the ratio be .02 none
per application for example, what we would find total is an uptake of 20% of the androstenone with the end result
leaving .016mg. Not only is there less available None on the skin diffusing into the air and causing reactions in
people, the rate at which the None absorbs into the skin takes place over time. Add that onto our natural and
unavoidable rubbing, touching, and skin cell shedding and we have some pretty inconsistent numbers. Because our
water-based formula does not contain any penetration enhancers, you avoid this uptake entirely. In terms of
pheromone breakdown, conversion, and build up, check out the thread that sagacious linked above for a current
discussion of bacteria and its role or otherwise lack there of in conversions, activations, etc. We are just
starting to scratch the surface with a lot of new ideas and really enjoy presenting them first to the love-scent
community.
Thanks again,
Matt
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Good,
creative ideas from your company! Perfumers have known about this problem for a long time, and use denatured palm
oil for it\'s tendency to stay on the skin\'s surface and also act as sort of a sustained release agent (of
course, that wouldn\'t work with a sprayer) where such concerns are present. (To my knowledge, no one in the
pheromone business has tried that either, BTW.) Jojoba, by contrast, soaks right in, and is used extensively in the
aromatherapy business.
All absorption is not bad, particularly as regards essential oils, etc, as it can
enhance the participation of your body in creating the final musky effect and allow sustained release through
sweating. But with a pure pheromone product where dosage is critical, the water approach is a great one to have
access to, especially if you want to use a sprayer, as Bobby said. That also avoids the problem of killing off all
\"healthy\" skin bacteria with the alcohol, some of which are probably necessary for full \"activation\" of
pheromones and for controlling more opportunistic environmental bacteria. With some alcoholic products, it is
appropriate and possible to increase the percentage of water without special technology (as I did with my own
product, but not entirely without complications). But you have made some things much easier with your approach, and
are also contributing on the scientific end by enhancing experimentation, just as you say! I\'d buy it!
In
sum, I agree that your advance in delivery technology is also an advance for pheromone technology in general. I
think you\'ll find quite a number of adventuous, intellectually curious souls come through here and will fully
appreciate your efforts, perhaps moreso than other sites (though I miss some of the old regulars like Irish,
Whitehall and Scientist, to name a few -- come back!). I for one never suspected I would enjoy reading and
contributing to Bruce\'s forum as much as I in fact did.
Excellent job, guys; congratulations, and
welcome! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Doc, I ended up getting the
palm oil, and my results have been better than in the other methods I tried to keep the -mones at surface level (ie
clogging the pores, oscar told me a dangerous story about that doing that too
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). I know you don\'t like the smell, but you should see how it
goes for you. Afterall, the absorbtion will always happen with stone labs, lacroy stuff, etc.
Sagacious1420
05-19-2004, 07:27 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Afterall, the absorbtion will always happen with
stone labs, lacroy stuff, etc.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I\'m sure we\'re all
impressed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
So if you knew so much about how these products
were prone to transdermal assimilation before it was mentioned by our new contributors, why haven\'t you mentioned
it before? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I had a clue, doc had the
answer.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
web page (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showfl
at.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=121451&Forum=All_For ums&Words=I%27ve%20been%20wondering%20if%20clogged
%20pores%20could%20be%20a%20good%20thing&Match=Ent ire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&am
p;Main=65694&Search=true#Post121451\")
I got denatured, as directed.
DrSmellThis
05-19-2004, 07:43 PM
Cool. I do keep a
little DPO on hand, and do find it useful at times. I plan on using it on a larger scale in the future as well. For
now, though, I am finding this new water approach very interesting. I am happy for Bruce that he is now attracting
most of the innovations in the field (since Pherin has shifted away from it in favor of pharmaceuticals these days).
BTW, if more interesting side topics come up, which seems likely with this bright new group of participants, we
should probably more them to a new thread so folks will have this thread to come to for learning about the new
product, Perception.
Matt_BdcConcepts
05-19-2004, 09:35 PM
We are very
grateful for the feedback,
To answer some questions, specifically, why hasn\'t transdermal delivery really been
discussed at length before, well simply put, it was such a common aspect of typical colognes and perfumes before
that, based on my understanding, just seemed logical to bring it into the pheromone world. Unfortunately, and what
we are seeing here, is that the whole game changes when you add hormones to the equation. Whereas in the
bodybuilding world, we want to maximize absorption, here we want to reduce or eliminate it. More information will
be coming in terms of the overall product, design, formulation, and packaging considerations. We have no doubt that
you all will enjoy what we have to offer since the majority of it was designed with forum members in mind. That
being said, as DrSmellThis added, should more side topics come up, we should move them to a new thread. Hmmm, new
topics you say? Ok, check the pheromone discussion forum for a new twist on pheromone candles. Yes, beating a dead
horse on this topic, but the overall result was they were not possible or otherwise no one was interested in
pursuing it. For fun, I came up with this write up on making a pheromone candle, showing that is 100% possible and
actually, quite easy to do on your own! Damn, I hate a thread that gets off topic haha.
Thanks all,
Matt
Bruce
05-20-2004, 07:29 AM
Folks,
Here are some
possible box designs. Which do you like
best?
http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box1.jpg (\"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box1.jpg\")
nhttp://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box2.jpg (\"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box2.jpg\")
http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box3.jpg (\
"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box3.jpg\")
We are
leaning towards #3 at this point as it makes room for directions and possibly a small fragrance additive for the
unscented version. Some thoughts on each from Bobby\'s notes:
BOX DESIGN #1
This box is the most compact and
basic design. For those retailers that value shelf space this will be their preferred display box. There is a
minimum of verbiage space for product / marketing description. This design will require an informational insert
within the box.
BOX DESIGN #2
This box is of the same dimensions as above but has a small product viewing window
on the side corner. This allows for better marketability of the product for brick and mortar locations but is still
constrained by the lack of verbiage space.
BOX DESIGN #3
This box is the largest of all and will allow for
versatility in product deployment with room to remain dynamic in meeting customer expectations. It incorporates a
modern look with a traditional viewing window that results in astounding marketability. In addition, the extra room
on the back of the box will allow for sufficient marketing and product description / directions for use /
precautions / etc. There is volume inside that will allow for an informational insert and also a proposed
concentrated fragrance. We were in agreement that this presentation stands the best chance of gaining
distributorship audience and hence contract. It presents the most cross market appeal and increased chance of
success at accomplishing common goals.
Bruce
koolking1
05-20-2004, 08:17 AM
I suspect most forum
customers wouldn\'t care all that much.
Your limiting cost by reducing shipping charges as much as possible
should be a consideration, especially for non-USA customers.
DZorro
05-20-2004, 10:38 AM
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Folks,
Here are some possible box designs. Which do you like
best?
http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box1.jpg (\"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box1.jpg\")
nhttp://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box2.jpg (\"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box2.jpg\")
http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box3.jpg (\
"http://www.love-scent.com/packaging/box3.jpg\")
We are
leaning towards #3 at this point as it makes room for directions and possibly a small fragrance additive for the
unscented version. Some thoughts on each from Bobby\'s notes:
BOX DESIGN #1
This box is the most compact and
basic design. For those retailers that value shelf space this will be their preferred display box. There is a
minimum of verbiage space for product / marketing description. This design will require an informational insert
within the box.
BOX DESIGN #2
This box is of the same dimensions as above but has a small product viewing window
on the side corner. This allows for better marketability of the product for brick and mortar locations but is still
constrained by the lack of verbiage space.
BOX DESIGN #3
This box is the largest of all and will allow for
versatility in product deployment with room to remain dynamic in meeting customer expectations. It incorporates a
modern look with a traditional viewing window that results in astounding marketability. In addition, the extra room
on the back of the box will allow for sufficient marketing and product description / directions for use /
precautions / etc. There is volume inside that will allow for an informational insert and also a proposed
concentrated fragrance. We were in agreement that this presentation stands the best chance of gaining
distributorship audience and hence contract. It presents the most cross market appeal and increased chance of
success at accomplishing common goals.
Bruce
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
The third box
look great.
DZorro,
Helsinki
05-20-2004, 12:48 PM
I like the look of the
first one. It\'s sheek.
ToBeOrNotToBe
05-20-2004, 12:54 PM
I would prefer
Box1 too.
Holmes
05-20-2004, 12:54 PM
I like the first box,
too, though I understand why you\'re leaning toward the third.
Holmes
Box #1 is better and it
won\'t take up much space in a shipping yellow package.
dping28
05-20-2004, 10:18 PM
I my self would prefer
box1. I dont care too much about the packaging. All I care about is the product it self. You could forget the box
all together and I would still be happy. Though the scent additive is an interesting idea.
CptKipling
05-21-2004, 01:54 AM
#3 for me
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
...especially if you are including a concentrated fragrance.
bundyburger
05-21-2004, 08:21 PM
Don\'t like #2.
Those types of packs always crumple and look sh!t if not handled right. Like #1 best.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Bruce\'s explanation about why #3 would be better makes
sense and I guess most customers would like to learn as much about the product from the info on the box as they can
get. I know I do.
#1 would be perfect for mail-orders, where the customer has allready go tthe info from
else where. I suppose #3 for the display shelf.
SyraBrian
05-22-2004, 07:52 AM
An unscented version
in the #1 box, please! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Watcher
05-22-2004, 12:40 PM
Interesting step forward
here - well im keeping my credit card finger ready lol - these new approaches to the deliver and penetration of
pheromones are well worth pursuing.
Im sure that the next step knowing LC is the mixing of this product with
ohter products for our combos. So many new pheromone compounds to play with - if this one is discounted enough as a
trail offer to get some orders and feedback happening then yes my order will go in - as others have said some of us
have been playing with so much recently the wallets are out and credits maxed - so many new toys and not enough $$$$
lol.
Pheros has worked great and chikara and perception look to be next on my list + some more P10 (as u guys can
see about $500 once i get some NPA, SOE and AE to go along with that.)
If all these new products can sell
significant volumes and remain viable and LC can get more customers then that is good.
camusflage
05-25-2004, 12:40 PM
I like box 3. It\'s
the classiest (IMHO) and it reminds me of my beloved M7 cologne bottle.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Just curious what kind of
tests were done previously with this product or are the LS fourm members to be guinea pigs (for lack of a better
word)for this product?
DCW
BDC_Concepts
05-27-2004, 10:04 PM
Just curious what
kind of tests were done previously with this product or are the LS fourm members to be guinea pigs (for lack of a
better word)for this product?
DCW
The Love-Scent community will be the first fully
nation wide market to officially test Perception however a significant number of tests were done in local areas
regarding the formula to assess results. It would be almost a waste to type out the results we received from our
paper handout as they varied just as much as anything else does, however, the important part, and the focus of the
product formulation itself was RESULTS itself. The problem with the field tests were the same issues that bind the
pheromone world, i.e. an inherent change in behavior regardless of how hard you try not to, when trying to assess
results in people who are aware. In other words, even if you go to the same place, same night, wear the same
amount, wash and clean yourself the same, go with the same people, drink the same amount (if your at a bar), drink
the same thing, time it out, and attempt to control as much as you can, testers will inherently change their
behavior because they are LOOKING for results. That being said, I had a fun time testing it on a number of people
when they weren't aware of it :D, but the costs associated with funding a double blind peer reviewed study are
incredibly hefty. That being said, we won't bring any wild claims about getting all the women, or feed you lines
that you will double the amount of women you normally get. Everyone here is aware that pheromones are an edge. If
you have no social skills, are completely unattractive without making any effort to look decent, and don't get out
of your shell, well, good luck. The formula was specifically designed to get ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, by that I
mean, anything that can get a look, a conversation, interaction, a second chance, smile, ANYTHING to give you that
slight edge whereas normally you might not receive that. Clearly we are dedicated to the scientific aspect of
pheromone delivery, as displayed with our water-based formula, and with that, big on trying to remove the
inconsistencies that plague our pheromone world. Below I will post the product description for Perception. It
explains how the product is unique, what it will bring to the community, and the formula ratio - which by the way,
if you’re a regular here, you will find similar to some effective home brew
preparations.
PERCEPTION:
From the scientific minds behind BDC Nutrition, BDC Concepts is proud to
make its presence in the pheromone market with the introduction of Perception, the next step in pheromone
development. Featuring 4mg of pheromones, in a unique and powerfully effective ratio, Perception represents a large
leap forward for the industry. Perception contains three human pheromones, androstenol, androstenone, and
androsterone, in a 4:2:2 ratio respectively. Recognizing the need for a product containing three powerful pheromones
(nol, none, and rone) with a convenient application method, Perception contains 2mg of androstenol, 1mg of
androstenone, and 1 mg of androsterone. BDC Concepts took Perception a few steps further to create a truly one of a
kind product unseen in the pheromone industry.
Scented VS Unscented:
Research on consumer needs
yielded mixed results when considering the choice between a scented and an unscented product. Some users want the
ability to use their own fragrance while others enjoy the convenience of an all-in-one product. Wanting to satisfy
all demographics, Perception contains a 10ml atomizer of our unique unscented pheromone formula. In addition, a 5ml
atomizer is included providing our unique, sexy, and sophisticated concentrated fragrance. Perception effectively
allows the user to vary and experiment with pheromone dosages without being bound to fragrance strength. In
addition, both atomizers are unmarked and reusable concealing the source of your charm making the purchase that much
more enticing. The key to the provided fragrance is to take advantage of our patent pending formula!
The
Formula:
We realized there would be nothing really special about adding a 5ml atomizer of fragrance to the
product besides an added incentive or otherwise the idea that a buyer is getting more for their money, that is,
unless our formula was unique. Indeed that is the case with Perception's water based formula. Essentially, a
water-based formula allows all of the pheromone enthusiasts out there to alter ratios simply by utilizing water. At
a first glance, this doesn't seem to be all that useful, however, one of the key characteristics about our formula
is that it avoids transdermal delivery. In other words, the majority of other products available contain well-known
penetration enhancers typically used in transdermal delivery. Transdermal delivery is widely seen many products
including the nicotine path, birth control patch, and is described the process by which certain compounds or
chemicals are able to absorb through the skin using certain mediums. I will, at the moment, leave out certain
aspects of transdermal delivery which have been argued to absorb into certain tissue while at the same time avoiding
the blood stream. To elaborate, when using an ethanol or oil based substance, typically IPM, a significant
percentage of the product is delivered under the skin and further into other tissue rendering them seemingly,
ineffective to the VMO. In case the connection is not clear, BDC Concepts is asserting that the dosages most
commonly utilized with pheromone delivery are inaccurate when applying products that use a tradition ethanol or oil
based formula. When considering precise dosages in the microgram level, it is extremely important to know as much as
we can about dosages applied. Transdermal uptake happens over time, in that, a large percentage of the compound is
absorbed quickly with more absorption over the course of a few hours. What makes Perception unique outside of its
creative pheromone ration? Quite simply, you know exactly what you are applying. You avoid uptake through
transdermal delivery which makes the product that much stronger. Both the 10ml unscented formula and its 5ml
fragrance counterpart contain our unique water based formula, so there is no fear of transdermal uptake through
applying the pheromones and scent to the same spot on the body.
Application:
Perception's precise
10ml atomizer delivers 0.1ml per spray providing for .02mg nol, .01mg none, and .01mg of rone per spray. Suggested
application is 2 full sprays to deliver .04 nol, .02 none, and .02 rone. Feel free to experiment with dosages as
successful amounts vary from person to person. Should you prefer a different cover scent, apply the Perception
formula and your cover scent to separate areas to avoid transdermal uptake. Note: This only applies to body
application, as clothing would not make a difference. Because of the water-based formula, you may apply the
Perception formula and provided fragrance to the same location on the body.
Summary:
Perception is the
first and only product available to offer scented and unscented capabilities in one product. No longer will
customers have to take a risk and wonder if the fragrance will be pleasant. Perception is also the first and only
product available to bypass transdermal uptake, making dosages more precise and avoid certain aspects associated
with pheromone buildup. Lastly, Perception caters to the needs of pheromone enthusiasts allowing for ratio
alteration simply by adding more water. Contained in an attractive package with reusable atomizers, while being cost
effective renders Perception a product unrivaled in the industry.
real_wiseman
05-28-2004, 02:29 AM
So when does it start to
ship?
// W
Bruce
05-28-2004, 07:35 AM
I was told 2-4
weeks.
Bruce
So when does it start to ship?
// W
Chemo (BDC Concepts)
05-28-2004, 05:50 PM
As Bruce said, we
should have product on his shelves in 2-4 weeks!
Bobby
ToBeOrNotToBe
05-29-2004, 04:11 AM
How much will it
cost?
Bruce
05-29-2004, 07:00 AM
Should be the same as AE and SOE,
$49.95.
Bruce
I just thought I'd bump this up with
Perception coming out in the next week or so. Even for those who already read it, it is an interesting read to go
through again.
ManBeast
07-08-2004, 10:19 PM
Heh, Chemo knows his stuff...
He created a transdermal gel that still whoops on what the "big" guys are offering... I'm very exited to see how
well this product works.
MB
Bruce
07-09-2004, 06:32 AM
Yeah, Chemo is quite a guy. Very
exciting to work with on this project so far. I've had samples for quite a while, but am still dying to see the
final product.
I think we should have a clear ETA early next week.
Bruce
ToBeOrNotToBe
07-09-2004, 10:49 AM
Yeah, Chemo is
quite a guy. Very exciting to work with on this project so far. I've had samples for quite a while, but am still
dying to see the final product.
I think we should have a clear ETA early next week.
BruceHave you
tried the product, Bruce? If so, have you noticed any differences in the reactions of other people (compared to AE,
for example)? :think:
CptKipling
07-09-2004, 04:45 PM
I somehow missed the last few
posts, but anyways...
This product is very exciting, particularly for me because the ratios are similar to ones I
do indeed like to "home-brew-up".
I also like the scented/unscented combo, great stuff! :thumbsup:
As a
little side note, because of the ratios of the pheros in Perception, I would guess that it isn't overly stinky
without a coverscent, no?
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