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KeepItReal
05-11-2004, 09:10 AM
There\'s an episode of Friends - The One With The Free Porn - in which Chandler and Joey discover they have tuned

into a porn channel. And it\'s free. They leave the TV on, afraid switching off will mean no more pornography. By

the end of the episode, Chandler is seeing the world through porn-tinted spectacles. \"I was just at the bank,\"

he complains, \"and the teller didn\'t ask me to go do it with her in the vault.\" Joey, bewildered, reports a

similar reaction from the pizza-delivery girl. \"You know what,\" decides Chandler, \"we have to turn off the

porn.\"
As a society, however, we are further from turning off the porn than we have ever been. Pornography is

everywhere - it masquerades as \"gentlemen\'s entertainment\" in the form of clubs such as Spearmint Rhino, it

infiltrates advertising and it will soon be available in our back pockets, thanks to a deal by adult entertainment

giant Private Media Group to beam porn to UK mobile phones.

In its hardcore form, pornography is now accessed in

the UK by an estimated 33% of all internet users. Since the British Board of Film Classification relaxed its

guidelines in 2000, hardcore video pornography now makes up between 13% and 17% of censors\' viewing, compared

with just 1% three years ago, a rate of growth that is being cited as a causal factor in the recent bankruptcy of

Penthouse, at one time the very apotheosis of porno chic but in recent years little more risqué than Loaded. In the

US, with the pornography industry bringing in up to $15bn (£8.9bn) annually, people spend more on porn every year

than they do on movie tickets and all the performing arts combined. Each year, in Los Angeles alone, more than

10,000 hardcore pornographic films are made, against an annual Hollywood average of just 400 movies.

Pornography

is not only bigger business than ever before, it is also more acceptable, more fashionable, more of a statement of

cool. From pieces \"in praise of porn\" in the normally sober Prospect magazine, to such programmes as

Pornography: The Musical on Channel 4 last month, to Victoria Coren and Charlie Skelton\'s book, published last

year, about making a porn film, to the news that Val Kilmer is to play the part of pornography actor John Holmes in

a new mainstream movie, there is a widespread sense that anyone who suggests pornography might have any kind of

adverse effect is laughably out of touch. Coren and Skelton, former Erotic Review film critics, focus on their flip

comic narrative, scarcely troubling themselves with any deeper issues. \"In all our years of watching porn,\" they

write, in a rare moment of analysis that doesn\'t get developed any further, \"we have never properly resolved

what we think about how, why and whether it is degrading to women. We suspect that it might be. We suspect that

pornography might be degrading to everybody.\"

With pornography, it seems as if the sheer scale of the

phenomenon has, in time-honoured capitalist fashion, conferred its own respectability; as a result, serious analysis

is hard to come by. Only occasionally, amid porn-disguised-as-documentary that distinguishes much of Channel 5\'s

late-night output, is there broadcasting that gives any kind of insight. Channel 4\'s documentary Hardcore, shown

two years ago, told the story of Felicity, a single mother from Essex who travelled to Los Angeles hoping to make a

career in pornography. Arriving excited, and clear about what she would not do - anal sex, double-vaginal

penetration - she ended up being coerced into playing a submissive role and agreeing to anal sex. Felicity - the

vicissitudes of whose own troubled relationship with her father were mirrored by the cruelty of the men with whom

she ended up working - eventually escaped back to the UK.

Hardcore offered a rare, unadorned look at the inside

of the industry, as did Pornography: The Musical, albeit in a more surreal form, with actors interrupting sex to

break into song. Yet what about the millions who consume pornography, the men - for they are, despite

pornographers\' claims about growing numbers of female fans, mostly men - who habitually use it? How are they

affected? Is pornography, as most these days claim, a harmless masturbatory diversion? That episode of Friends,

albeit with tongue in cheek, suggested a heavy diet of porn might encourage men inappropriately to expect sex. Is

that true? And what about more profound effects? How does it affect relationships? Is it addictive? Does it

encourage rape, paedophilia, sexual murder? Surely tough questions need to be asked.

First, though, some

definitions. According to the Shorter Oxford Dictionary, the word \"pornography\" dates to 1864, when it described

\"the life, manners, etc of prostitutes or their patrons\". More recently, it has come to signify material, in the

words of Chambers, \"intended to arouse sexual excitement\". Its most common themes, however, are power and

submission. By contrast, \"erotica\", which is pretty hard to find now, carries additional connotations of

\"amorousness\" and is far less concerned with control and domination. No, it is pornography plain and simple,

from teen magazines such as Front to venerable \"wrist mags\" such as Playboy, to the almost daily bombardment of

teaser pornographic emails, that confronts all of us on a ceaseless basis.

The received wisdom, pushed hard by

such mass-market magazines as Loaded and FHM, is that men derive a pretty uncomplicated enjoyment from pornography.

That, certainly, is the argument put forward by such proponents as David Baddiel, AA Gill, who has directed his own

pornographic film, and the musician Moby, who once said in an interview, \"I like pornography - who doesn\'t? I

don\'t really trust men who claim to not be interested in porn. We\'re biologically programmed to respond to the

sight of people having sex.\" Danny Plunkett, then features editor of Loaded, takes an equally relaxed view: \"We

know that a lot of people enjoy it and take it with a pinch of salt. We certainly don\'t view it as dangerous.\"



But is it as simple as this? One of my best friends is a man for whom pornography has apparently never held even

the slimmest interest. Moby may choose to distrust him, but his sex life otherwise has always seemed to me perfectly

robust. He is, however, so much in the minority as to seem almost an oddity.

For most men, at some point in

their lives, pornography has held a strong appeal and, before any examination of its effects, this fact has to be

addressed. Like many men, I first saw pornography during puberty. At boarding school, dog-eared copies of Mayfair

and Knave were stowed behind toilet cisterns; this borrow-and-return library system was considered absolutely

normal, seldom commented upon and either never discovered by the masters or tacitly permitted. Long before my first

sexual relationship, porn was my sex education.

No doubt (though we\'d never have admitted it then) my friends

and I were driven to use porn through loneliness: being away from home, we longed for love, closeness, unquestioning

acceptance. The women over whom we masturbated - the surrogate mothers, if you like - seemed to be offering this

but, of course, they were never going to provide it. The untruths it taught me on top of this disappointment - that

women are always available, that sex is about what a man can do to a woman - I am only now, more than two decades

on, finally succeeding in unlearning.

From men everywhere come similar stories. Nick Samuels, 46, an electrical

contractor from Epping - now, with a wife and four children, the very image of respectable fatherhood - says he

first discovered the power of pornographic images at the age of 16, when he found a copy of Mayfair in his

father\'s garage. \"I can even remember the picture. There was a woman walking topless past a building site and

the builders were ogling her from the scaffolding. It was pretty soft stuff, but it heightened my senses and kicked

off my interest in pornography. Before long, I was reading Whitehouse and then, through a friend at my squash club,

I was introduced to hardcore videos.\"

Si Jones, a 39-year-old north London vicar who regularly counsels men

trying to \"come off\" pornography, admits that, for him, too, it was his introduction to sex. \"As a teenager, I

watched porn films with my friends at the weekend. It was just what you did. It was cool, naughty and everyone was

doing it.\" Set against today\'s habit of solitary internet masturbation, Jones\'s collegiate introduction to

porn seems peculiarly sociable. Today, boys no longer clandestinely circulate magazines after school; nor do they

need to rummage through their fathers\' cupboards in search of titillating material. Access to internet

pornography has never been easier, its users never younger, and the heaviest demand, according to research published

in the New York Times, is for \" \'deviant\' material including paedophilia, bondage, sadomasochism and sex

acts with various animals\".

At its most basic level, pornography answers natural human curiosity. Adolescent

boys want to know what sex is about, and porn certainly demonstrates the mechanics. David Morgan, consultant

clinical psychologist and psychoanalyst at the Portman Clinic in London, which specialises in problems relating to

sexuality and violence, describes this phase as \"transitional, like a rehearsal for the real thing. The problem

with pornography begins when, instead of being a temporary stop on the way to full sexual relations, it becomes a

full-time place of residence.\" Morgan\'s experience of counselling men addicted to porn has convinced him that

\"the more time you spend in this fantasy world, the more difficult it becomes to make the transition to reality.

Just like drugs, pornography provides a quick fix, a masturbatory universe people can get stuck in. This can result

in their not being able to involve anyone else.\"

For most men, the way pornography objectifies sex strikes a

visceral emotional chord. Psychotherapists Michael Thompson and Dan Kindlon, in their book Raising Cain: Protecting

The Emotional Life Of Boys, suggest that objectification, for boys, starts early. \"By adolescence, a boy wakes up

most mornings with an erection. This can happen whether he is in a good or bad mood, whether it is a school day or a

weekend ... Boys enjoy their own physical gadgetry. But the feeling isn\'t always, \'Look what I can do!\' The

feeling is often, \'Look what it can do!\' - again, a reflection of the way a boy views his instrument of

sexuality as just that: an object. What people might not realise when they justly criticise men for objectifying sex

- viewing sex as something you do, rather than part of a relationship - is that the first experience of

objectification of sexuality in a boy\'s life comes from his experience of his own body, having this penis that

makes its own demands.\"

But the roots go back further still. Research has shown that boy babies are treated

more harshly than their female counterparts and, as they grow up, boys are taught that success is achieved through

competition. In order to deal with this harsh masculine world, boys can learn not to trust their own feelings and

not to express their emotions. They become suspicious of other men, with whom they\'re in competition, after all,

and as a result they often feel lonely and isolated.

Yet men, as much as women, hunger for intimacy. For many

males, locked into a life in which self-esteem has grown intrinsically entwined with performance, sex assumes an

almost unsustainable freight of demands and needs. Not only does the act itself become almost the only means through

which many men can feel intimate and close, but it is also the way in which they find validation. And sex itself, of

course, cannot possibly satisfy such demands.

It is into this troubled scenario that porn finds such easy

access. For in pornography, unlike in real life, there is no criticism, real or imagined, of male performance. Women

are always, in the words of the average internet site, \"hot and ready\", eager to please. In real life, by

contrast, men find women are anything but: they have higher job status, they demand that they be sexually satisfied,

and they are increasingly opting to combine career and motherhood.

Men, say psychologists, also feel threatened

by the \"emotional power\" they perceive women wielding over them. Unable to feel alive except when in

relationships with women, they are at the same time painfully aware that their only salvation from isolation comes

in being sexually acceptable to women. This sense of neediness can provoke intense anger that, all too often, finds

expression in porn. Unlike real life, the pornographic world is a place in which men find their authority

unchallenged and in which women are their willing, even grateful servants. \"The illusion is created,\" as one

male writer on pornography puts it, \"that women are really in their rightful place and that there is, after all,

no real and serious challenge to male authority.\" Seen in this light, the patently ridiculous pornography scenario

of the pretty female flat-hunter (or hitch-hiker, driver with broken-down car, or any number of similar such

vulnerable roles) who is happy to let herself be gang-banged by a group of overweight, hairy-shouldered couch

potatoes makes perfect psychological sense.

The porn industry, of course, dismisses such talk, yet occasionally

comes a glimmer of authenticity. Bill Margold, one of the industry\'s longest-serving film performers, was

interviewed in 1991 by psychoanalyst Robert Stoller for his book Porn: Myths For The Twentieth Century. Margold made

no attempt to gloss over the realities. \"My whole reason for being in this industry is to satisfy the desire of

the men in the world who basically don\'t care much for women and want to see the men in my industry getting even

with the women they couldn\'t have when they were growing up. So we come on a woman\'s face or brutalise her

sexually: we\'re getting even for lost dreams.\"

As well as \"eroticising male supremacy\", in the words of

anti-porn campaigner John Stoltenberg, pornography also attempts to assuage other male fears, in particular that of

erection failure. According to psychoanalytical thinking, pornography answers men\'s fetishistic need for visual

proof of phallic potency. Lynne Segal, professor of psychology and gender studies at Birkbeck College, University of

London, writes: \"Men\'s specific fears of impotence, feeding off infantile castration anxiety, generate

hostility towards women. Through pornography, real women can be avoided, male anxiety soothed and delusions of

phallic prowess indulged, by intimations of the rock-hard, larger-than-life male organ.\"

Pornography, in other

words, is a lie. It peddles falsehoods about men, women and human relationships. In the name of titillation, it

seduces vulnerable, lonely men - and a small number of women - with the promise of intimacy, and delivers only a

transitory masturbatory fix. Increasingly, though, men are starting to be open about the effect pornography has had

upon them. David McLeod, a marketing executive, explains the cycle: \"I\'m drawn to porn when I\'m lonely,

particularly when I\'m single and sexually frustrated. But I can easily get disgusted with myself. After watching

a video two or three times, I\'ll throw it away and vow never to watch another again. But my resolve never lasts

very long.\" He has, he says, \"seen pretty much everything. I\'ve even seen pictures of men being buggered by a

pig. But once you start going down that slope, you get very quickly jaded.\"

Like many men, McLeod is torn.

Quick to claim that porn has \"no harmful effects\", he is also happy to acknowledge the contradictory fact that

it is \"deadening\". Andy Philips, a Leeds art dealer and, at 38, a father for the first time, says there have

been times when he has been \"a very heavy user\". His initial reaction, like that of many of the men to whom I

spoke, is studiedly jokey: \"I love porn.\" Yet, as he grows more contemplative, he admits: \"I\'ve always used

it secretly, never as part of a relationship. It\'s always been like the other woman on the side. It\'s

something to do with being naughty, I guess.\"

Again and again, despite now being married, he is drawn back.

\"You can easily get too much of it. It\'s deadening, nullifying, gratuitous, unsatisfying. At one point I was

single for three years and I used a lot of porn then. After a while, it made me feel worse. I\'d feel disgusted

with myself and have a huge purge.\"

Extended exposure to pornography can have a whole raft of effects. By the

time Nick Samuels had reached his mid-20s, it was altering his view of what he wanted from a sexual relationship.

\"I used to watch porn with one of my girlfriends, and I started to want to try things I\'d seen in the films:

anal sex, or threesomes.\" Sometimes, he says, this was OK - \"She was an easy-going person.\" At other times,

\"it shocked her\". Married for 15 years, he admits he has carried the same sexual expectations into the marital

bedroom. \"There\'s been real friction over this: my wife simply isn\'t that kind of person. And it\'s only

now, after all these years, that I\'m beginning to move on from it. Porn is like alcoholism: it clings to you like

a leech.\"

Psychoanalyst Estela Welldon, author of the classic text Mother, Madonna, Whore, has treated couples

for whom such scenarios spiralled out of control. \"A lot of men involve their partners in the use of porn.

Typically, they will say, \'Don\'t you want a better sex life?\' I have seen cases in which first the woman

has been subjected to porn and then they have used their own children for pornographic purposes.\" When couples use

porn together - a growing trend, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by - there is, says Welldon, \"an illusory

sense that they are getting closer together. Then they film themselves having sex and feel outside themselves. This

dehumanising aspect is an important part of pornography. It dehumanises the other person, the relationship, and any

intimacy.\"

Even when in a loving sexual relationship, men who have used porn say that, all too often, they see

their partner through a kind of \"pornographic filter\". This effect is summed up eloquently by US sociologist

Harry Brod, in Segal\'s essay Sweet Sorrows, Painful Pleasures: \"There have been too many times when I have

guiltily resorted to impersonal fantasy because the genuine love I felt for a woman wasn\'t enough to convert

feelings into performance. And in those sorry, secret moments, I have resented deeply my lifelong indoctrination

into the aesthetic of the centrefold.\"

Running like a watermark through all pornography use, according to

Morgan at the Portman Clinic, is the desire for control. This need, he says, has its roots in early childhood. \"A

typical example might be a boy with fairly absent parents, either in emotional terms or in actual fact.\" The boy,

wishing his parents were more present - more within his control, as it were - can grow up wishing \"to find

something over which he can have control. Pornography fills that space.\"

But the user of pornography is also

psychologically on the run, Welldon adds. \"People who use pornography feel dead inside, and they are trying to

avoid being aware of that pain. There is a sense of liberation, which is temporary: that\'s why pornography is so

repetitive - you have to go back again and again.\"

Lost in a world of pornographic fantasy, men can become

less inclined, as well as increasingly less able, to form lasting relationships. In part, this is due to the

underlying message of pornography. Ray Wyre, a specialist in sexual crime, says pornography \"encourages

transience, experimentation and moving between partners\". Morgan goes further: \"Pornography does damage,\" he

says, \"because it encourages people to make their home in shallow relationships.\"

Jan Woolf believes it

might also prevent a relationship getting started. A former special needs teacher, she lasted only six months in the

job of BBFC censor in 2001. During this time, she watched hundreds of hours of hardcore videos. At the time, she was

single. \"If I\'d been in the early stages of a relationship, it would have been very difficult, because I\'d

have been watching what I might have been expected to be doing, except it would never have been like that.\" She

left the job because the porn was starting to make her feel \"depressed - I wanted my lively mind back\".

The

more powerful the sense of pre-existing internal distress, the more compelling becomes the pull towards pornography.

For John-Paul Day, a 50-year-old Edinburgh architect in his first \"non-addictive\" sexual relationship, the

experience of being a small boy with a dying mother drove him to seek solace in masturbation. He says he has been

\"addicted\" to pornography his entire adult life. \"The thing about it is that, unlike real life, it is

incredibly safe,\" Day says. \"I\'m frightened of real sex, which is unscripted and unpredictable. And so I

engage in pornography, which is totally under my control. But, of course, it also brings intense disappointment,

precisely because it is not what I\'m really searching for. It\'s rather like a hungry person standing outside

the window of a restaurant, thinking that they\'re going to get fed.\"

Day, who has attended meetings of Sex

Addicts Anonymous for 12 years, says, \"Pornography is central to my own sex addiction in as much as sex addiction

has to do with the use of fantasy as a way of escaping from reality. Even in my fantasies about \'real\' people,

I am really transforming them into pieces of walking pornography. It is not the reality of who they are that I focus

on, but the fantasy I project on to them.\"

Like drugs and drink, pornography - as Day has realised - is an

addictive substance. Porn actor Kelly Cooke, one of the stars of Pornography: The Musical, says this applies on

either side of the camera: \"It got to the point where I considered having sex the way most people consider getting

a hamburger. But when you try to give it up - that\'s when you realise how addictive it is, both for consumers and

performers. It\'s a class A drug, and it\'s hell coming off it.\"

The cycle of addiction leads one way:

towards ever harder material. Morgan believes \"all pornography ends up with S&M\". The now-infamous Carnegie

Mellon study of porn on the internet found that images of hardcore sex were in far less demand than more extreme

material. Images of women engaging in acts of bestiality were hugely popular, the most frequently downloaded being

of a brunette with - in the pornographer\'s trusty lexicon - \"a huge horse cock in her tight pussy\".

The

mechanics of the pornographic search - craving, discovery of the \"right\" image, masturbation, relief - makes it,

says Morgan, work like \"a sort of drug, an antidepressant\". The myth about porn, as a witness told the 1983

Minneapolis city council public hearings on it, is that \"it frees the libido and gives men an outlet for sexual

expression. This is truly a myth. I have found pornography not only does not liberate men, but on the contrary is a

source of bondage. Men masturbate to pornography only to become addicted to the fantasy. There is no liberation for

men in pornography. [It] becomes a source of addiction, much like alcohol. There is no temporary relief. It is

mood-altering. And reinforcing, ie, \'you want more\' because \'you got relief\'. It is this reinforcing

characteristic that leads men to want the experience they have in pornographic fantasy to happen in real life.\"



In its most severe form, this can lead to sexual crime, though the links between the two remain controversial

and much argued-over. Wyre, from his work with sex offenders, says, \"It is impossible not to believe pornography

plays a part in sexual violence. As we constantly confront sex offenders about their behaviour, they display a wide

range of distorted views that they then use to excuse their behaviour, justify their actions, blame the victim and

minimise the effect of their offending. They seek to make their own behaviour seem normal, and interpret the

behaviour of the victim as consent, rather than a survival strategy. Pornography legitimises these views.\"

One

of the most extreme examples of this is Ted Bundy, the US serial sexual murderer executed for his crimes in January

1989. The night before his death, he explained his addiction to pornography in a radio interview: \"It happened in

stages, gradually ... My experience with ... pornography that deals on a violent level with sexuality is that, once

you become addicted to it, and I look at this as a kind of addiction like other kinds of addiction, I would keep

looking for more potent, more explicit, more graphic kinds of material. Like an addiction, you keep craving

something which is harder, harder, something which gives you a greater sense of excitement, until you reach the

point where the pornography only goes so far ... It reaches that jumping-off point where you begin to wonder if,

maybe, actually doing it will give you that which is beyond just reading about it or looking at it.\"

Bundy, as

damaged as he was, stopped short of blaming pornography for his actions, though it was, he believed, an intrinsic

part of the picture. \"I tell you that I am not blaming pornography ... I take full responsibility for whatever

I\'ve done and all the things I\'ve done ... I don\'t want to infer that I was some helpless kind of victim.

And yet we\'re talking about an influence that is the influence of violent types of media and violent pornography,

which was an indispensable link in the chain ... of events that led to behaviours, to the assaults, to the

murders.\" In the understated words of Wyre, \"The very least pornography does is make sexism sexy.\"

The

average man, of course, whatever his consumption of pornography, is no Bundy. Yet for those who have become

addicted, the road to a pornography-free life can be long and arduous. Si Jones advises accountability: \"Make your

computer accountable, let other people check what you\'ve been looking at.\"

And the alternative to

pornography, says Morgan, is not always easy. \"Relationships are difficult. Intimacy, having a good relationship,

loving your children, involves work. Pornography is fantasy in the place of reality. But it is just that: fantasy.

Pornography is not real, and the only thing human beings get nourishment from is reality: real relationships. And,

anyway, what do you want to say when you get to the end of your life? That you wish you\'d spent more time wanking

on the internet? I hardly think so.\"

Elana
05-11-2004, 09:14 AM
Let me

summarize the article for all of you lazies that don\'t want to read this long article (I am included in that

group)

\"a lot of people like porn\"
The end

koolking1
05-11-2004, 09:33 AM
porn leads to masturbation

Elana
05-11-2004, 09:36 AM
If you

look at porn you can see naked people

BigGulp
05-11-2004, 09:37 AM
I had

to read it in three separate sessions. It was keeping me away from my downloads..

Pancho1188
05-11-2004, 11:07 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
10,000 films per year

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

That\'s a lot of sperm...

CJ01
05-11-2004, 11:33 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10,000 films per

year


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That\'s a lot of

sperm...

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Yeah - both on and off screen

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

About time

they `leglaized´ porn in the UK imo. Those black dots for instance in the mags were just too silly! Better late than

never I guess /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Still rather expensive to buy I imagine though.

Bottle
05-11-2004, 11:38 AM
Everyone would be much happier if they just stopped getting fukking freeked out about getting turned on for

crying out loud.

TopDawg2050
05-11-2004, 11:40 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
10,000 films per year

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

That\'s a lot of sperm...

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

lmfao, i will

admit, i watched porn from years 12-13, but now that im 15, i look back and am disgusted with it. If youre that

lonely, go get a girlfriend!!

DrSmellThis
05-11-2004, 12:22 PM
The

important principle here is to not let your mind become a \"porn projector\", as did the Friend\'s

characters.

If you have seen (or even read) a lot of porn, that can take a conscious effort. It starts with

mindfulness of what you are doing mentally (e.g., in your \"looking\" and what you \"see\") whenever you are

around others.

With every freedom comes challenge and responsibility, that\'s for sure. If you \"can\'t

stop\" projecting porn onto others, (not to mention your own self) then you probably need to stay away from

consuming it.

CJ01
05-11-2004, 12:26 PM
... And realize that

what you see in porn is not really what sex in real life is like. It´s all done for the camera! I think young

(guys) people often don´t quiete realize this. Just like young people don´t realize that the people in magazines,

films etc look rather different in real life too and feel under pressure to `improve´their looks and guys grow up to

believe that breasts look like footballs with nipples /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Holmes
05-11-2004, 12:34 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The important principle here is to not let your

mind become a \"porn projector\", as did the Friend\'s characters.

If you have seen (or even read) a lot

of porn, that can take a conscious effort. It starts with mindfulness of what you are doing mentally (e.g., in your

\"looking\" and what you \"see\") whenever you are around others.

With every freedom comes challenge and

responsibility, that\'s for sure. If you \"can\'t stop\" projecting porn onto others, (not to mention your own

self) then you probably need to stay away from consuming it.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Interesting point.


Holmes

koolking1
05-11-2004, 12:40 PM
I rarely

watch porn but am in the swinging scene and, yes, it\'s sometimes also hard to separate fact from fact after being

at parties where nearly every woman is available sexually - you tend to see women at the market, etc. as also being

available. You have to keep your wits about you that\'s for sure.

tallmacky
05-11-2004, 12:44 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I rarely watch porn but am in the swinging scene

and, yes, it\'s sometimes also hard to separate fact from fact after being at parties where nearly every woman is

available sexually - you tend to see women at the market, etc. as also being available. You have to keep your wits

about you that\'s for sure.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

How are the women in the swinging

scene, are most battle hogs, and slightly less pleasing to the ojos? Is it usually a group of fuglies? Muy feo en la

faca.

DrSmellThis
05-11-2004, 01:14 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
... And realize that what you see in porn is not

really what sex in real life is like. It´s all done for the camera! I think young (guys) people often don´t quiete

realize this. Just like young people don´t realize that the people in magazines, films etc look rather different in

real life too and feel under pressure to `improve´their looks and guys grow up to believe that breasts look like

footballs with nipples /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Good point. It

is self-defeating to let yourself need things that are unrealistic to have. If porn \"makes\" one do this, it is

negative in that sense. Everyone has to \"achieve reality\", and keep their feet planted there, to be happy.

franki
05-11-2004, 01:34 PM
Reality is for

those who can\'t handle drugs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

koolking1
05-11-2004, 01:41 PM
The overall

attractiveness of women in the swinging scene is about on par with the average woman in this country. Gorgeous to

ugly, they are all there. Pretty much like the \"person next door\".

CJ01
05-11-2004, 01:48 PM
What about the guys?

bjf
05-11-2004, 01:51 PM
They all look like

Brat Pitt.

Holmes
05-11-2004, 01:54 PM
Naturally.


Holmes

koolking1
05-11-2004, 01:56 PM
hate to

disappoint but big ones, small ones, tall ones, short ones, fat ones, ugly ones \'member that song?

Holmes
05-11-2004, 01:59 PM
Let\'s call

the whole thing off?



Holmes

BigGulp
05-11-2004, 02:04 PM
If I were able

to up-load more often I wouldn\'t be downloading as much.

CJ01
05-11-2004, 02:08 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Let\'s call the whole thing off?


<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> the song?

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
hate to disappoint but big ones, small ones, tall ones, short ones, fat ones, ugly ones \'member that song?




<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> no, please sing it for us

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

koolking1
05-11-2004, 02:19 PM
Dr John, the

Night Tripper or was it Eric Burdon and The Animals, sorry - at 53 my memory disappoints me sometimes.

BigGulp
05-11-2004, 02:23 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
... And realize that what you see in porn is not

really what sex in real life is like. It´s all done for the camera! I think young (guys) people often don´t quiete

realize this. Just like young people don´t realize that the people in magazines, films etc look rather different in

real life too and feel under pressure to `improve´their looks and guys grow up to believe that breasts look like

footballs with nipples /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



Some

breasts do look like footballs with nipples. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Your point is well

stated though CJ. but I prefer the Porn Star romp in bed. I love being with a women that loves and wants all kinds

of sex all the time. I love being with Super-Sexual women. That 1 out of 100 girl that gets to have all the orgasms

that, sadly, the other 99 girls don\'t get to have. I\'ve been with several women like this and it\'s like

they have a little porn movie running through their head almost 24/7. It\'s fun being the recipient of some of

that energy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Holmes
05-11-2004, 02:26 PM
Well

said.


Holmes

CJ01
05-11-2004, 02:42 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Some breasts do look like footballs with nipples.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I meant the over the top silicon ones.
Sorry I´m not sure I got

the rest about the 1 out of 100 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

BigGulp
05-11-2004, 03:27 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Some breasts do look like footballs with nipples.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I meant the over the top silicon ones.
Sorry I´m not sure I got the rest

about the 1 out of 100 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">



Actually the best place to see the \"1 out of 100\" ratio is by watching Porn. I\'m

sure the 1 out of 100 example I used is not accurate but the point I was trying to make is that there are only a

very small number of women that are Super- Sexual. The majority of women have a pleasurable experience with sex but

it\'s a small minority of woman that can actually orgasm. Most women will never have an orgasm through

intercourse. That doesn\'t mean it doesn\'t feel great, it\'s just that they won\'t cum that way. Most women

that do orgasm will only cum by clitoral stimulation. A lesson best learned early by young men. Get real good

at giving oral!

A very, very small minority of women are Super-Sexual. These women tend to:

A:

LOVE Pipinos.

B: Cum at the drop of a hat.

C: Cum vaginally or with clitoral stimulation.

D. Love

male ejaculate.

E: Able to have multiple orgasms.

F: Able to have sequentially orgasms.

G: Enjoy anal

sex.

H: Can orgasm with anal sex. (go figure).

I: Squirt

J: Have a little Porn Movie running through their

head 24/7

K: Spend a lot of time online


Your serve CJ. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana
05-11-2004, 03:32 PM
Everything but G

&amp; H /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BigGulp
05-11-2004, 04:06 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Everything but G &amp; H

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



No comment.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

nichirenx
11-21-2004, 11:32 PM
its not in everyone's plans

nor is it requisite for the satisfaction of all to have marriage and a family.
ie: bruce lee - exceptional

martial artist, developed own style, married with kids
miyamoto musashi - exceptional swordsman/artist ,

never married, no kids
different but similar

I have and am enjoying lots of porn. And it had no adverse

effects. I do not see every woman as a potential sexual conquest nor do I expect to have Jenna Haze in my bed. And

my failed marriage made me realize the married life wasnt for me.
I can do committment, but only if both of us

are free to leave if either changes their mind.
Actually it may have had one effect, I always saw all women as

objects of beauty from their mind to their toes - porn accetuated that.

long live porn and fully legalize thc

.

a.k.a.
11-23-2004, 01:29 PM
Interesting article. Doesn't

mention the role of fantasy in "normal" sex, and therefore doesn't draw any conclusions about what the growth of

the porn market says about our sexual imagination (or lack thereof).
But this part blows my

mind:


people spend more on porn every year than they do on movie tickets and all the

performing arts combined

Haven't we got anything better to do with our spare time and money? Are we

a nation of wankers?

Elvis
11-24-2004, 04:03 AM
In my view, porn is just a

fantasy like every other fantasy a man (or woman) has ever had.

We dream of being rich, famous, powerful, a rock

star, Einstein, sailing to the moon and dare I say it...a porn stud/slut!

The people who actually do porn in

reality to satisfy the fantasizers don't have to do it, if they don't want to. So, if people are finding they are

being hurt by porn a) don't do it in reality and/or b) don't do it in fantasy. No one has to do anything they

don't want to and if they feel in some kind of state of degradation over porn, they need to grow some balls and

square up to the situation, get out of it if they don't like it.

Just my two cents.
Now...where did I leave

the KY..oh, there it is...

sprayit
11-24-2004, 09:56 AM
To chat about that first

post...

Quote: " they write, in a rare moment of analysis that doesn't get developed any further, "we have

never properly resolved what we think about how, why and whether it is degrading to women. We suspect that it might

be. We suspect that pornography might be degrading to everybody."

Quote: “Then they film themselves

having sex and feel outside themselves. This dehumanising aspect is an important part of pornography. It dehumanises

the other person, the relationship, and any intimacy."

This implies that sex acts are degrading or even

dehumanising. Such extreme assertions translate into “sex associates with worthlessness,” which is

merely a means of using porn to slam the sex act itself. The propaganda on how immoral, evil, dirty (etc) sex is or

can be seems as though it will never end.

There is no addiction to porn, there is only addiction to sex; and

it's something humanity is born with. An orgasm is nothing more than a chemically induced high. Sex is a drug, the

participants are the tools.

“Projecting porn onto others” is merely perceiving them as sexual

beings; assessing others as potential mates; an unavoidable part of life – everyone does it. Oh the horror

that we are sexual beings.

Seems to me like the only ones denouncing sex, are the ones who aren't having it,

or those who feel they're no longer capable of playing the game that leads to it. Politics aside, in my view

volitional sex is never degrading but only ever an ultimate act of worship and appreciation. The problem is, such

levels of worship spark powerful feelings of jealousy fueled political views on the anti-sex crowd.

Sorry to

get on a high horse in this post of mine, but that first post was both excellent and provocative :)