True love? Pheromones... Evolution... ??? [Archive]

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marvin

05-09-2004, 10:00 AM

These are some things I found trying to figure it out on the board but here they are.

122 male Harvard Business

School students filled out a questionaire and collected one saliva sample. Men in committed, romantic relationships

had 21% lower testosterone levels than men not involved in such relationshiops. Men adapt to their long term

partner\'s pheromones, so that the effect on testosterone levels is reduced.

Is this then, where the whole,

\"It\'s not the same as it used to be\" comes from, even when you seem to have a very romantic relationship with

your partner, come from?

Sight, touch, sound, and temperature are transformed through a series of nerve

connections that change and moderate the efects so that the brain does not overreact to new stimuli. The nerves that

respond to smell are wired directly into the brain, and the stimuli are sent pure and unmodified to the limbic

center of the brain. The limbic system is where eomtional responses are concentrated. The concious brain is the

topmost and outer area of the brain.i This is where we spend our time thinking, but the concious mind is not where

our emotions are developed. Why we love someone is more how they smell to the limbic system than what we conciously

think of them.

When you think of it, most everyone\'s the same... We\'re all humans, but when you love

someone, you\'re like, they\'re special, and then you start to think of reasons for that, etc... Could it be

that \"true love\" is attention/lust. The emotion of love is created trhough the higher brain functions. You

\"convince\" yourself that you love someone??

Famous psychologists have already said that there are steps in

doing everying. Including falling in love. What are the steps in falling in love?
Is it then \"easier\" to

\"love\" someone if there is a stronger attration/lust. Also, without attraction there is NEVER get the chance to

fall in love in the first place.
If you have seen High School girls, or little kids, they write, I love so and so,

for EVERYONE they go out with. Can they really love them? It\'s created by the mind. Obsession is of the

\"MIND\".

Is your soulmate only someone with an exact opposite immune system to your own? Some say differences

attract, others say alikes bring people together, something in common, looks come from what pheromones have

imprinted on what is beautiful, personality, etc.

JVK, any imput?

Something to think about...

BTW, CtpKing,

if you remember a post you wrote a long time ago about some girl that you two broke up and her friends though she

was acting stupid, and this and that, but you ended up getting back together. I cna\'t find it again. But I

remember I was saying, be the man, this and that. How did that end up. BTW, 2 years AFTER that post, I got in the

same exact position you were in. Unbeknown, perhaps sub-concious, reading back, I took the same exact advice as I

told you. I came to the conclusion, when you start to care/fall in love (and you\'re a guy) you run into

problems. I started to care and I got BURNED. Now I\'m leaving... alone.

Which brings me into another issue.

Evolution. A female\'s menstrual cycle can be shortened up to 20 days when exposed to male under sweat. Males who

show less emotion to a stimulous provided have higher testosterone levels. Males in committed, romantic

relationships have 21% lower testosterone levels.
Emotions are more prevelant in humans than any other species;

they also have MUCH larger brains. Infants and children are utterly defensless. Unlike other species they need a

much longer time to develop than any other species, mentally, physicaly, learning, etc. A study done with an ape

infant and a human infint show the ape actually learned FASTER, to walk, etc. Until the child far surpassed the ape.

Emotions are needed to create a more strong emotional support of the fe-male to the child, the instinct to care for

the child, as it needs very intense care. In fact, when a child is born a fe-male will take her attention away from

the mate (male) and focus on the child. The child becomes more important.

The fact that, 1. Pheromones are

adapted to. 2. Men\'s underarm odor causes fe-males mentrual cycle to shorten. 3. Men showing less emotion have

higher testosterone levels. 4. Women focus attention onto the child instead of the mate (male) would only SHOW/PROVE

the assumption that:

Women are meant to stay and take care of the children. They are supposed to be very close to

them and develop a strong emotional attachment.

Men are supposed to leave, and go off and hunt for food. Comging

back only to provide food (beta male? whatever it is) and to reciprocate (if that\'s the word) (alpha

male?)

Men are NOT supposed to be emotional/in love, etc. And, in doing so, show weakness/lower

testosterone.

THIS is where the whole REAL MEN DON\'T CRY comes from.

In today\'s society men take on

roles as women, stay home, and women take on roles of men. Biologically, women only want one man, also. However,

they want alpha male. The reason why women will refuse to leave the wifebeaters and they say they love them, is

becasue they are fulfilling their biological urges.

Men that do not care about their women are more alpha and

biologically what women want.
Not to be un-politically correct... HOWEVER, rape goes back CENTURIES.

And women

that are raped are MORE LIKELY to have children.

Another thesis: Women with higher testosterone levels need a

male with higher testosterone levels.

Many sluts, skanks, \"hoes\", bitches, are nothing more than women with

higher testosterone levels, and or stronger survival instrinct/more primal. The reason they have a more primal way

of thinking is probably because of never developing, due to either abuse, drugs, or both, or problems of development

in the brain during adolescents, birth, etc.

Adolescents are more like the above than anyone, you may call it

immaturity.

Ending result:

These women and men are following their role.

Comments, arguments, additional

information?

Bart

marvin

05-09-2004, 10:03 AM

BTW, is it a surprise to anyone here, that my gf\'s seem to be, and I am attracted to

EXTREMELY

B*TCHY FE-MALES. Young and very b**chy

Bart

Bottle

05-09-2004, 10:54 AM

a REAL man can show emotion, can cry and love and give a fuk about his hoe

because he is not

scared to show so-called weakness to chumps...because he is mature enough to know what real weakness is, and that is

insecure men who try so hard to be seen as MEN.

and because evolution has given our women brains, then they can

see the stupid ignorant insecure men for who they are.

BigGulp

05-09-2004, 10:55 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BTW, is it a surprise to anyone here,

that my gf\'s seem to be, and I am attracted to

EXTREMELY B*TCHY FE-MALES. Young and very b**chy

Bart

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe they aren\'t like that at all to begin with but get that

way after they spend a little time with you. Not brushing your teeth might have something to do with it too.

koolking1

05-09-2004, 12:57 PM

Marvin, you have such a way with words!!!

Elana

05-09-2004, 01:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BTW, is it a surprise to anyone here,

that my gf\'s seem to be, and I am attracted to

EXTREMELY B*TCHY FE-MALES. Young and very b**chy

Bart

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, what a way with words. Welcome back Marv

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

DrSmellThis

05-09-2004, 01:29 PM

I agree with Koolking and Elana, who were merely stating the obvious. This was just a very carefully

thought out and well-crafted essay, obviously. Boy, Marvy really got me thinking about rape in a new way with that

post! It is the best way to prove our alphaness, and the women will love being in the presence of real man, too!

I\'m telling all my guy friends.

Elana

05-09-2004, 01:48 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I agree with Koolking and Elana, who

were merely stating the obvious. This was just a very carefully thought out and well-crafted essay, obviously. Boy,

Marvy really got me thinking about rape in a new way with that post! It is the best way to prove our alphaness, and

the women will love being in the presence of real man, too! I\'m telling all my guy friends.

<hr

/></blockquote>

I fear that there will be a fight for power between Marv and

Tallmacky. Who will stay on top? I shutter to think

CptKipling

05-09-2004, 02:05 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BTW, CtpKing, if you remember a post

you wrote a long time ago about some girl that you two broke up and her friends though she was acting stupid, and

this and that, but you ended up getting back together. I cna\'t find it again. But I remember I was saying, be the

man, this and that. How did that end up. BTW, 2 years AFTER that post, I got in the same exact position you were in.

Unbeknown, perhaps sub-concious, reading back, I took the same exact advice as I told you. I came to the conclusion,

when you start to care/fall in love (and you\'re a guy) you run into problems. I started to care and I got BURNED.

Now I\'m leaving... alone.

<hr /></blockquote>

I remember, and what you said

wasn\'t quite as neutral as the way you repeated it. I don\'t like going into detail about my relationships on

here, suffice to say I did not get burned.

Emotion is not something alien to a man, a man simply understands

it.

Interesting post, though.

Sagacious1420

05-09-2004, 03:00 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
These are some things I found trying to

figure it out on the board but here they are.

122 male Harvard Business School students filled out a questionaire

and collected one saliva sample. Men in committed, romantic relationships had 21% lower testosterone levels than men

not involved in such relationshiops. Men adapt to their long term partner\'s pheromones, so that the effect on

testosterone levels is reduced.

Is this then, where the whole, \"It\'s not the same as it used to be\" comes

from, even when you seem to have a very romantic relationship with your partner, come from?

Sight, touch, sound,

and temperature are transformed through a series of nerve connections that change and moderate the efects so that

the brain does not overreact to new stimuli. The nerves that respond to smell are wired directly into the brain, and

the stimuli are sent pure and unmodified to the limbic center of the brain. The limbic system is where eomtional

responses are concentrated. The concious brain is the topmost and outer area of the brain.i This is where we spend

our time thinking, but the concious mind is not where our emotions are developed. Why we love someone is more how

they smell to the limbic system than what we conciously think of them.

When you think of it, most everyone\'s

the same... We\'re all humans, but when you love someone, you\'re like, they\'re special, and then you start

to think of reasons for that, etc... Could it be that \"true love\" is attention/lust. The emotion of love is

created trhough the higher brain functions. You \"convince\" yourself that you love someone??

Famous

psychologists have already said that there are steps in doing everying. Including falling in love. What are the

steps in falling in love?
Is it then \"easier\" to \"love\" someone if there is a stronger attration/lust.

Also, without attraction there is NEVER get the chance to fall in love in the first place.
If you have seen High

School girls, or little kids, they write, I love so and so, for EVERYONE they go out with. Can they really love

them? It\'s created by the mind. Obsession is of the \"MIND\".

Is your soulmate only someone with an exact

opposite immune system to your own? Some say differences attract, others say alikes bring people together, something

in common, looks come from what pheromones have imprinted on what is beautiful, personality, etc.

JVK, any

imput?

Something to think about...

BTW, CtpKing, if you remember a post you wrote a long time ago about some

girl that you two broke up and her friends though she was acting stupid, and this and that, but you ended up getting

back together. I cna\'t find it again. But I remember I was saying, be the man, this and that. How did that end

up. BTW, 2 years AFTER that post, I got in the same exact position you were in. Unbeknown, perhaps sub-concious,

reading back, I took the same exact advice as I told you. I came to the conclusion, when you start to care/fall in

love (and you\'re a guy) you run into problems. I started to care and I got BURNED. Now I\'m leaving...

alone.

Which brings me into another issue. Evolution. A female\'s menstrual cycle can be shortened up to 20

days when exposed to male under sweat. Males who show less emotion to a stimulous provided have higher testosterone

levels. Males in committed, romantic relationships have 21% lower testosterone levels.
Emotions are more prevelant

in humans than any other species; they also have MUCH larger brains. Infants and children are utterly defensless.

Unlike other species they need a much longer time to develop than any other species, mentally, physicaly, learning,

etc. A study done with an ape infant and a human infint show the ape actually learned FASTER, to walk, etc. Until

the child far surpassed the ape. Emotions are needed to create a more strong emotional support of the fe-male to the

child, the instinct to care for the child, as it needs very intense care. In fact, when a child is born a fe-male

will take her attention away from the mate (male) and focus on the child. The child becomes more important.

The

fact that, 1. Pheromones are adapted to. 2. Men\'s underarm odor causes fe-males mentrual cycle to shorten. 3. Men

showing less emotion have higher testosterone levels. 4. Women focus attention onto the child instead of the mate

(male) would only SHOW/PROVE the assumption that:

Women are meant to stay and take care of the children. They are

supposed to be very close to them and develop a strong emotional attachment.

Men are supposed to leave, and go

off and hunt for food. Comging back only to provide food (beta male? whatever it is) and to reciprocate (if

that\'s the word) (alpha male?)

Men are NOT supposed to be emotional/in love, etc. And, in doing so, show

weakness/lower testosterone.

THIS is where the whole REAL MEN DON\'T CRY comes from.

In today\'s society

men take on roles as women, stay home, and women take on roles of men. Biologically, women only want one man, also.

However, they want alpha male. The reason why women will refuse to leave the wifebeaters and they say they love

them, is becasue they are fulfilling their biological urges.

Men that do not care about their women are more

alpha and biologically what women want.
Not to be un-politically correct... HOWEVER, rape goes back

CENTURIES.

And women that are raped are MORE LIKELY to have children.

Another thesis: Women with higher

testosterone levels need a male with higher testosterone levels.

Many sluts, skanks, \"hoes\", bitches, are

nothing more than women with higher testosterone levels, and or stronger survival instrinct/more primal. The reason

they have a more primal way of thinking is probably because of never developing, due to either abuse, drugs, or

both, or problems of development in the brain during adolescents, birth, etc.

Adolescents are more like the above

than anyone, you may call it immaturity.

Ending result:

These women and men are following their

role.

Comments, arguments, additional information?

Bart

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Holmes

05-09-2004, 03:08 PM

Real men don\'t eat quiche.

Holmes

Bottle

05-09-2004, 03:10 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Real men don\'t eat

quiche.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

no they dont, quiche is for fags and

wusses

Holmes

05-09-2004, 03:13 PM

Just like emotions.

Holmes

jvkohl

05-09-2004, 06:26 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

JVK, any imput?

<hr

/></blockquote>

Nice to see you\'re following the latest research and integrating it

well. I think we will find that the effect of estrogen on oxytocin and bonding is the reason that men are more

promiscuous than are women, but that also a testosterone decrease in men promotes an oxytocin increase and more of a

bond with his lover/mate.

An overall comment that you probably know from reading the study reports is that the

folks doing these studies rarely mention the pheromone connection. Since the pheromone-hormone link is the only way

to get from the social environment to behavior, most other researchers are missing the boat. They are spouting study

results and not addressing cause and effect. If you take a cause and effect approach, then every thing that\'s

being reported: lower testosterone levels in married men, peak testosterone levels in men that coincide with

ovulation in women, men preferring the scent of ovulatory phase women, women preferring the scent of symmetrical

men, men preferring women with larger breasts and culturally preferred (estrogen determined) waist to hip

ratios--and many other preferences that may appear to be coincidental can all be explained through pheromones. Most

of this is explained in the epilogue of the updated (2002) Scent of Eros book.

Still, I try to stay away from the

evolutionary adaptation approach--like with Randy Thornhill\'s concept of rape being adaptive. No real reason for

me to comment on this type of psychological approach, when there\'s enough data from biology to support things

like coitus-induced ovulation, which is pheromone-dependent in other mammals.

Not enough time to comment

further, but already see that you\'ve started a thread that will inspire others to add their thoughts.

marvin

05-09-2004, 06:26 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I agree with Koolking and Elana, who were merely stating the obvious. This

was just a very carefully thought out and well-crafted essay, obviously. Boy, Marvy really got me thinking about

rape in a new way with that post! It is the best way to prove our alphaness, and the women will love being in the

presence of real man, too! I\'m telling all my guy friends.

<hr /></blockquote>

I fear that there will be a fight for power between Marv and Tallmacky. Who will stay on top? I

shutter to think

<hr /></blockquote>

haha, good ole\' tallmacky...

Bart

bjf

05-10-2004, 05:35 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think we will find that the effect

of estrogen on oxytocin and bonding is the reason that men are more promiscuous than are women, but that also a

testosterone decrease in men promotes an oxytocin increase and more of a bond with his lover/mate.

<hr

/></blockquote>

James:

I started a thread a couple of months ago proposing a

metabolite of oxytocin could act as a pheromone. I may have already asked you about this, can\'t recall, but can

you speculate on the likelyhood of this? Oxytocin not only has a role at birth between mother and child,

but also has a role in bonding in relationships as you know and plays a role in orgasims. If it does have a

pheromone, a synthetic version might be very useful for our purposes.

past thread (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=114918&Forum=U B

B5&Words=oxytocin&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage =0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=114918&S

earch=true#Post114918\")

marvin

05-10-2004, 11:11 AM

bjf, I believe that in another post JVK speculated that the hormones androsterone, androstenone, and

androstenol, the normal pheromones, may not be pheromones, but rather hormones, that have been conditioned by

androstedienone (A1) to be percieved as a pheromone, and may actually be more effective.

Whether or not oxytocin

is a pheromone, it\'s likely that it too has been conditioned to be sensed. Also, when put on the skin, it\'s

metabolites could then be turned into pheromones through bacteria, just as other pheromones are on the skin.

BTW,

what\'s the newest stuff on A1, I remember that was supposed to be the miracle pheromone and [censored]?

Bart

marvin

05-10-2004, 11:16 AM

Reading a site from your old post bjf; and I suppose this would be a question for JVK. I have been told

by some girls that when I touch them, or they touch me, they get goosebumps, shiver, etc. Could this be a cause of

an oxytocin release? And, if it is, why is it only happening to certain people. Ex; I can cause this oxytocin

release, but someone else cannot? Pheromones?

Bart

marvin

05-10-2004, 11:26 AM

\"coupled with estrogen it creates a desire to be penetrated (that is, it makes her want

intercourse)\"

I\'ve been told, \"I want you inside me...\" However, speculating, could it be the same way

for a male? WAnting to be inside her? I have felt that also but have never understood why.
And only with one

particular person have I felt that way. Which leads the question, again, if oxtocin release is inducive to certain

pheromones.
I\'d like to f*ck all kinds of b*tches... But I\'ve only felt like I actually \"wanted to be

inside\" of one person (thus far anyway)...
Ahh, good ole\' times. I don\'t know why it had to end really.

Heh, maybe it\'s for the best.
Everything seems to always work out in the end though.

Bart

bjf

05-10-2004, 11:32 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
bjf, I believe that in another post JVK

speculated that the hormones androsterone, androstenone, and androstenol, the normal pheromones, may not be

pheromones, but rather hormones, that have been conditioned by androstedienone (A1) to be percieved as a pheromone,

and may actually be more effective.

Whether or not oxytocin is a pheromone, it\'s likely that it too has been

conditioned to be sensed. Also, when put on the skin, it\'s metabolites could then be turned into pheromones

through bacteria, just as other pheromones are on the skin.

BTW, what\'s the newest stuff on A1, I remember

that was supposed to be the miracle pheromone and [censored]?

Bart

<hr /></blockquote>

yea, conditioned response or unlearned response. It is just semantics. If it helps us get

pussy, who really cares /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif?

bjf

05-10-2004, 11:37 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Reading a site from your old post bjf;

and I suppose this would be a question for JVK. I have been told by some girls that when I touch them, or they touch

me, they get goosebumps, shiver, etc. Could this be a cause of an oxytocin release? And, if it is, why is it only

happening to certain people. Ex; I can cause this oxytocin release, but someone else cannot? Pheromones?

Bart

<hr /></blockquote>

The shivers or goose bumps are not necessarily her experiencing an

oxytocin release. But I think something like just hugging some random person could cause it. It could remind people

of being in their mother\'s arms as a child. During the birth process, mother\'s have extremely high oxy

levels.

I think the goose bumps is a combination of a lot of things. People get a lot of chemical highs from

attraction and love.

bjf

05-10-2004, 11:41 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
\"coupled with estrogen it creates a

desire to be penetrated (that is, it makes her want intercourse)\"

I\'ve been told, \"I want you inside

me...\" However, speculating, could it be the same way for a male? WAnting to be inside her? I have felt that also

but have never understood why.
And only with one particular person have I felt that way. Which leads the question,

again, if oxtocin release is inducive to certain pheromones.

<hr /></blockquote>

Anytime you feel very close to someone, sex becomes something different. Oxytocin is part of

why we feel close to someone, if I understand it correctly. So, speculating, I\'d say it plays a role on the

woman\'s part of wanting a guy inside of her and can play a role in a man\'s part of wanting to be inside of

her, and then sticking around afterwords.

tallmacky

05-10-2004, 12:13 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

If it helps us get pussy, who really

cares /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif?

<hr /></blockquote>

Slow

down Chulo! BJF come on we know you\'re a mack daddy, there is no reason for you to wave it in our face about all

the pussy you are getting, I bet you even have pussy falling out of your pockets....tell those girls to lay up once

in awhile! Save some for the rest of the male population, I bet even JVK agrees, after carefully looking at the

pussology data from your report! I mean just hold your horse at the gate for a few instead of running around NYC

slammin\' all these girls.....and get tested!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

tallmacky

05-10-2004, 12:29 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

haha, good ole\'

tallmacky...

Bart

<hr /></blockquote>

Hahah, my old Arch Nemesis, my true

opposite. Ya\' know I was the first to get banned, I kind of think I was always the more radical and troubled

youth (10 months ago back when I was young /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif), a real bad boy.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif NAWWWWWWWWW ya\' had me beat, with your crazy impulses ya\'

sadistic mofo!

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Biologically, women only want

one man, also. However, they want alpha male. The reason why women will refuse to leave the wifebeaters and they say

they love them, is becasue they are fulfilling their biological urges.

<hr /></blockquote>

Nawww, most women who seek out abusers, are looking specifically for that due to whatever past

trauma, women and men are creatures of habbit and thet explains the \"my type\" kind of thing, with a lot of

women. These women are not the norm and have been through whatever.

If anything a guy that actualy feels the need

to or does seriously beat a woman is anything but alpha, I mean honestly hitting a woman in the physcial sense is

alpha? Its actually very non-alpha, baby-pussy like, whimpy, a secret crybaby. That sort of thing, what bottle said

was good. Men cry, its normal anyone that finds that weak is a moron. Crying about someone passing is different from

crying that your metrosexual jeans are wrinkled...ya know? Guys who hit women kind of fall in line with the guys who

try to put on this front as in beign all tough but are actually crying inside and controlled more by their baby

emotions than a guy who cries ever so often, except PANCHO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Elana

05-10-2004, 12:31 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

haha, good ole\' tallmacky...

Bart

<hr /></blockquote>

Hahah, my old Arch Nemesis, my true opposite. Ya\' know I was the first to get banned, I

kind of think I was always the more radical and troubled youth (10 months ago back when I was young

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif), a real bad boy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

NAWWWWWWWWW ya\' had me beat, with your crazy impulses ya\' sadistic mofo!

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Biologically, women only want one man, also. However, they want alpha male.

The reason why women will refuse to leave the wifebeaters and they say they love them, is becasue they are

fulfilling their biological urges.

<hr /></blockquote>

Nawww, most women who seek

out abusers, are looking specifically for that due to whatever past trauma, women and men are creatures of habbit

and thet explains the \"my type\" kind of thing, with a lot of women. These women are not the norm and have been

through whatever.

If anything a guy that actualy feels the need to or does seriously beat a woman is anything but

alpha, I mean honestly hitting a woman in the physcial sense is alpha? Its actually very non-alpha, baby-pussy like,

whimpy, a secret crybaby. That sort of thing, what bottle said was good. Men cry, its normal anyone that finds that

weak is a moron. Crying about someone passing is different from crying that your metrosexual jeans are wrinkled...ya

know? Guys who hit women kind of fall in line with the guys who try to put on this front as in beign all tough but

are actually crying inside and controlled more by their baby emotions than a guy who cries ever so often, except

PANCHO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Nice!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

marvin

05-10-2004, 04:42 PM

That is true. I\'m not arguing with that. If you look at people at a High School, etc, many of the

people that fight are pussy skinny kids, and they just swing around like girls, because they feel a need to prove

themselves. Meanwhile, the weightlifters, football players, big dudes on roids don\'t ever really get into a

fight. Yes, perhaps it is because they are big, and do not need to prove themselves because everyone already knows,

but who cares.

The question is; these girls, if they are letting a male abuse them; how smart can they really be

to tell that they aren\'t really the badasses they make themselves to be? No, the girls \'do\' see them as

alpha male, whether they really are, or you do, or not.

A prime example would be this kid; I\'ll never forget

him, Jeff Junk (pronounced yunk)...

First time I saw him, I was messing with his sister (me and her are friends

now and cool) but you know how it is... I\'ve always been pretty big, or if I\'m skinny at the time (I\'m at a

pretty low weight)... I can still take care of myself, but I don\'t know people, so I never knew. I was half

scared of him. Has the bad-ass persona.

That is...

Until I got to know him and found out just how WEAK he

IS!!

The kid dresses and acts badass, but when he got into the weightroom he was the funniest mother f*** I\'ve

ever seen he is INCREDIBLY weak. In fact, every girl in there I think can lift more than him. Not only that, we made

him armwrestle this skinny girl, and he lost BADLY and NOOOO he\'s not acting he REALLY IS WEAK...
Kevin, after

messing with him and getting in trouble is like, this is WAY better than beating him up! We could beat him up but

everyone would just know we beat him up, he\'s freaking humiliated in front of EVERYONE! Something like

that...

Anyway, the point is.

I, an alpha male (supposedly) could not tell. Nor can the girls. In fact, he

gets a lot of girls. Not all of them are hot though, but he\'s much more \'sexually active\' than I am. Way he

talks, dresses, hair, acts, puts on the persona. He has the girls fooled, and he had me fooled.

Is he an alpha

male? Well, in the sense that he cannot really survive in the wild, not really a man, no... Is that what others see

him as.. Well... Not anymore, lol, with the armwrestling thing. He also asks a bunch of girls out etc, even though

he gets turned down a lot 1 in 100 is more than 0 if you ask out 0...

Another thing is... These women may not

have actually had to have been beaten, but rather had some kind of other trauma, therefore it\'s not exactly

familiar.

However, familiar does play a big part in it.
God, that\'s what Katie told her best friend. \"I

know deep down I love him, but I\'m so used to breaking up with all my boyfriends.\" (Her relationships don\'t

last very long.)
Many monthls later and I still haven\'t forgoten about her, and now I\'m leaving. She was the

only person that I have ever met in my entire life that actually understood me. On my level, like me. There was so

much f*cking chemistry, personality, God.

I just figured saying that, because you were talking about my outbursts

and stuff. Yeah, exactly like me. In fact, I made a bunch of comics and stuff... Some long months ago cleaned out my

room and found some from the 9th grade.. haha, they are almost the same as the stuff she did with the chinese and

short arm... She used to put her hand of her face and her arm through her other arm and fight my brother lol
ooohh,

life [censored] sucks... I have come to this conclusion all:

Everything in life goes back to 0. If you get high

and it\'s a 10 from 1-10, then you go down to negative 10 aftewrads (hangover.. brain damage). It works that way

for happiness, depression, love, sex.. Everything. People that are bipoloar and stuff just fluxuate more, but

everyone ends up at 0.
Conversely that means the more negative the more good comes from it, i.e., exercise, diet,

bootcamp... makes you stronger.

The reason why I asked cptking about the other relationship is because I was

exactly like I told you to be. Thing is; if she would have told me, I don\'t love you, I would have been hurt and

got over it. But she told me, I DO love you, etc. And that... I don\'t understand it guys.

If two people love

each other, why can\'t they be together???

I used to have a thing on love is BS, and then I didn\'t

afterwards....
But what hurts is that I thought love conquered all... It should damn it, it should. And wherever

love comes from... The body, the mind, you can\'t tell the difference... WHO CARES.

And oh yeah, what goes

around comes around. Every way I\'ve treated other people, I got treated. And guess what? I found my soulmate, but

guess what? Just how I say how to treat other people/women... Well, if you find someone EXACTLY like you, you find

out that you don\'t like in other people what you like in yourself. That\'s just like the thing where your

parents tell you... \" I hope your kids turn out to be JUST LIKE YOU! \"...

Due to washing off of pheromones,

less tradition, family bonding, and more security, people CREATE their own drama, and maybe people need povertry,

war, distance, to strengthen relationships.

But let me tell you this...

Someone who has had a broken heart,

and someone who is leaving to fight for people that probably don\'t give a [censored] about him, and people that

sit around all day at home making fun of sh*t, when they\'re too lazy to do sh*t themselves...

Whoever it is,

tell them you f*cking love them. Like that movie, Cold Mountain, or... Wuthering Heights, or in that Matrix movie 2

or 3 or something, wahtever...

You have N O IDEA HOW MUCH it HURTS, when you finally realize how much you love

someone, and it\'s too late. They are gone out of your life FOREVER, and you never got a chance to say goodbye.

I\'ve spent years hating my mother and father, and my brothers and sister, and hating people in general, and life,

but when it\'s gone... sh*t.. it\'s gone...
Im ur angel by r kelly... i\'ll never got those lyrics out my

head...

yeah

my 2 cents
back to pheromones or something

Bart

Holmes

05-10-2004, 04:55 PM

Snap into a Slim Jim!

Holmes

jvkohl

05-10-2004, 05:31 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

James:
I started a thread a couple

of months ago proposing a metabolite of oxytocin could act as a pheromone....can you speculate on the

likelyhood of this?

<hr /></blockquote>

The biological basis for mammalian pheromone

production lies in sex differences in levels of sex steroid hormones. Simply put, it\'s a difference between

levels of testosterone and estrogen, which lends itself to the development of all other neuronal systems (including

a system for oxytocin regulation) via promoting or destroying formation of nerve cells and their synapses. Since sex

steroid hormones also are manifest as pheromones, this means that oxytocin and metabolites of oxytocin are unlikely

to be pheromones; as there is no need for additional non-sex steroid related pheromones, though there is likely to

be a need for sex steroid dependent pheromones to alter levels of oxytocin to promote bonding. Oxytocin (Pitocin) is

used to induce labor, when a pregnant woman is too long past due. However, some knowledgable physicians have been

known to tell the pregnant woman to engage in careful intercourse (masturbation to orgasm might be an acceptable

alternative), which sometimes precludes the need for a pitocin injection. Stretch receptors in the vagina increase

oxytocin release as the child proceeds through the birth canal. It\'s not surprising that oxytocin then plays a

huge role in the mother/infant bond.

To address comments on \"I want you inside me:\" there are stretch

receptors in the vagina that respond to stretching to allow for increased oxytocin release. This explains the link

between penis size and the thought that \"bigger is better.\" Length is not as important as girth in this regard,

as being too long can be painfull, but I\'ve never heard a woman complain that a man\'s penis was too thick

(other than one actress, who commented that it was sometimes difficult for her to accomadate the girth of some

men--in a word she was too \"tight\".)

Oxytocin is also responsible for milk \"let down\" (lactation) which

is why some women whose breasts are regularly stimulated will begin to lactate, despite not being pregnant. In

horses, there is a decidedly pheromonal explanation for the \"nurse mare.\" When an equine infant is placed in

close proximity, a nurse mare will begin to lactate and will nurse an abandoned infant as if it were her own. No,

this is not a visual bonding thing; it\'s biology-- for all the evolutionary adaptationists who are reading

this.

And the reason she wants you \"in her\" is because she\'s ready to bond with you. The reason you want

to be in her is because men are rewarded with an oxytocin (feel good) increase with ejaculation (the contractions of

which are also oxytocin dependent).

Someone should be teaching this stuff to concerned students, don\'t

ya\'all think? Meanwhile, without the pheromonal aspects, sex education remains in its infancy.

Off to another

thread for now.

bjf

05-10-2004, 06:02 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Since sex steroid hormones also are

manifest as pheromones, this means that oxytocin and metabolites of oxytocin are unlikely to be pheromones; as there

is no need for additional non-sex steroid related pheromones, though there is likely to be a need for sex

steroid dependent pheromones to alter levels of oxytocin to promote bonding.

<hr /></blockquote>

Having pheromones that could alter levels of oxytocin would seem extremely useful for

business, social and sexual relationships. Bruce, you or one of your manufactuers should pursue this. Who knows,

maybe Chikara has something of this nature.

jvkohl

05-10-2004, 06:31 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Having pheromones that could alter

levels of oxytocin would seem extremely useful for business, social and sexual relationships. Bruce, you or one of

your manufactuers should pursue this. Who knows, maybe Chikara has something of this nature.

<hr

/></blockquote>

The effect of androstenol (as in SoE/m) on levels of luteinizing hormone

(LH), alters oxytocin levels by first also altering estrogen levels. It is the increased LH/FSH ratio that promotes

higher estrogen levels (via an induced ovultory LH and estrogen surge) and thus higher oxytocin levels. The effect

of copulins (as in SoE/w) on LH
in men alters levels of testosterone via the same pathway, but with a different

result. It is the increased testosterone that promotes interest in copulation, then orgasm increases oxytocin.

Unfortunately, it would be difficult to confirm the accuracy of the above information without reading nearly all of

\"The Physiology of Reproduction\" and then taking many liberties with extension of animal biology to humans. So,

you might just have to take my word for it--though this does explain why SoE products work well.

bjf

05-10-2004, 06:42 PM

Thanks. This does help to understand the effects of your product.

Pancho1188

05-11-2004, 11:06 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Guys who hit women kind of fall in line

with the guys who try to put on this front as in beign all tough but are actually crying inside and controlled more

by their baby emotions than a guy who cries ever so often, except PANCHO!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif