Iraq, best guess, what's gonna happen? [Archive]

View Full Version : Iraq, best guess, what's gonna happen?

koolking1

04-15-2004, 01:54 PM

anybody have this thought through?

franki

04-15-2004, 01:56 PM

The way it looks now, with religios shi´ite leaders gaining more and more power, it\'s becoming sort

of a second Iran. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Ash

04-15-2004, 06:00 PM

Both Germany and France are lobbying hard to get back in and get a piece of the action so look for it

to turn into a UN thing in the not too distant future. That\'s short term. Long term you don\'t want to know

about.

bundyburger

04-15-2004, 07:26 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Long term you don\'t want to know

about.

<hr /></blockquote>
Pretty much my guess too.

Pulling out would look wrong

and staying there now looks wrong.
It looked screwed the moment we were told of the seperate

tribes/beleifs/underwear colors etc involved. Always a crap recipe.

Ash

04-15-2004, 08:22 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
the moment we were told of the

seperate tribes/beleifs/underwear colors etc involved

<hr /></blockquote>

Yup. Well

said!

Ash

04-15-2004, 08:37 PM

From a link on the Drudge Report site to China News of all places.

US welcomes UN proposals on

Iraqi caretaker government

www.chinaview.cn (\"http://www.chinaview.cn\") 2004-04-16

05:59:47

WASHINGTON, April 15 (Xinhuanet) -- US Secretary of State Colin Powell welcomed on Thursday

proposals made by UN Undersecretary-General Lakhdar Brahimi about the establishment of an Iraqi caretaker government

before the June 30 deadline for the US-led coalition to return sovereignty to Iraqis.

\"I think they\'re

very sound recommendations,\" Powell said in aninterview with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

\"We\'ll have to study them. We\'ll have to discuss them within the United Nations, the Security Council, but

they also have to bediscussed within Iraq by the members of the Governing Council and by leaders in other parts of

Iraq,\" the secretary said.

Brahimi, who is in Iraq in the capacity of special envoy for

UNSecretary-General Kofi Annan, said in Baghdad earlier Thursday that an Iraqi caretaker government, comprising of a

prime minister,a president and two vice presidents, could be set up ahead of the June 30 deadline for power

handover.

\"We are confident that it will be possible to form such a government in a timely manner, that is

during the month of May 2004,\" the envoy said. Enditem

Whitehall

04-16-2004, 12:01 AM

One of the basic

premises of the whole US effort so far is that the Iraqi people are going to have to take responsibility for their

own country. Time and time again, we\'ve let less than good things happen (remember the looting?) because we

wanted to teach the Iraqis that THEY would have to work to make Iraq a great country.

We could have easily gone

in and leveled Fallujah and vaporized al-Sadr on day one of the troubles. What we\'ve done is set the stage for

the new Iraqi government to work things out. We\'re only going to provide \"air cover.\"

We will kill as

many imported fighters as we can and the Iranians seem to have gotten the message that they had best back off and

back out. The Marines in Fallujah are itching for revenge. Seems our focus is on international threats to Iraq -

the domestic situation is for the Iraqis to take increased leadership.

Words from the Bush Administration about

the UN are just window dressing. It both undercuts Kerry and scares the Iraqis into greater effort - they see the

UN as team mates with Saddam.

Predictions? The new Iraqi government will rise, slowly, to the ocassion and deal

with the internal bad actors within the context of Iraqi domestic politics. Our joint annoucement with Sharon about

pulling back our give-aways to the PLA signals an increasing hard line against Arafat. Where do many of the foreign

fighters in Fallujah come from anyway? Syria will eventually reform or fall to US pressure or invasion. Iran will

see the mullahs lose their grip over the next year to internal democrats.

No one said it was going to be easy but

we ARE changing the politics of the Middle East.

EXIT63

04-16-2004, 04:33 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
One of the basic premises of the whole US effort so

far is that the Iraqi people are going to have to take responsibility for their own country......

<hr

/></blockquote>

That\'s really what it comes down to. We have provided them with a

historic opportunity. Are the gonna stand there with their hands out or are they going to roll up their sleeves and

GET TO WORK!

belgareth

04-16-2004, 05:03 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
One of the basic premises of the whole US effort so far is that the Iraqi

people are going to have to take responsibility for their own country......

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s really what it comes down to. We have provided them with a historic opportunity.

Are the gonna stand there with their hands out or are they going to roll up their sleeves and GET TO WORK!

<hr /></blockquote>

The sooner we leave, the sooner they\'ll have the opportunity to

roll their sleeves up and get to work. So long as we are there, they have few real reasons to make the effort to

work out their own future.

franki

04-16-2004, 05:18 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
One of the

basic premises of the whole US effort so far is that the Iraqi people are going to have to take responsibility for

their own country......

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s really what it comes down to.

We have provided them with a historic opportunity. Are the gonna stand there with their hands out or are they going

to roll up their sleeves and GET TO WORK!

<hr /></blockquote>

The sooner we leave,

the sooner they\'ll have the opportunity to roll their sleeves up and get to work. So long as we are there, they

have few real reasons to make the effort to work out their own future.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, but the way it looks now, if the international troops withdraw from Iraq, some religious

zealots are going to take over the country, and probably establish a fundamentalist regime like the one in Iran.

belgareth

04-16-2004, 05:27 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
One of the basic premises of the whole US effort so

far is that the Iraqi people are going to have to take responsibility for their own country......

<hr

/></blockquote>

That\'s really what it comes down to. We have provided them with a

historic opportunity. Are the gonna stand there with their hands out or are they going to roll up their sleeves and

GET TO WORK!

<hr /></blockquote>

The sooner we leave, the sooner they\'ll have

the opportunity to roll their sleeves up and get to work. So long as we are there, they have few real reasons to

make the effort to work out their own future.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, but the way

it looks now, if the international troops withdraw from Iraq, some religious zealots are going to take over the

country, and probably establish a fundamentalist regime like the one in Iran.

<hr /></blockquote>

And that\'s bad, Right? Isn\'t it great how we are so democratic? Everybody is free to

choose their own path, so long as we approve of it. Other than our desire to tell others how to live, what reason do

we have for interfering in their internal affairs? We aren\'t doing those people any good with our interference

and we are making more enemies by being there. Look at the history of our work in trying to control other

country\'s internal politics. There\'s Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, Bosnia... The list goes on. If we were spending

this much time and money searching out the people who actually attacked us, I\'d have no complaint. We aren\'t

doing that, though. We have no business in Iraq!

franki

04-16-2004, 05:32 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
One of the basic premises of the whole US effort so far is that the Iraqi

people are going to have to take responsibility for their own country......

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s really what it comes down to. We have provided them with a historic opportunity.

Are the gonna stand there with their hands out or are they going to roll up their sleeves and GET TO WORK!

<hr /></blockquote>

The sooner we leave, the sooner they\'ll have the opportunity to

roll their sleeves up and get to work. So long as we are there, they have few real reasons to make the effort to

work out their own future.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, but the way it looks now, if

the international troops withdraw from Iraq, some religious zealots are going to take over the country, and probably

establish a fundamentalist regime like the one in Iran.

<hr /></blockquote>

And

that\'s bad, Right? Isn\'t it great how we are so democratic? Everybody is free to choose their own path, so

long as we approve of it. Other than our desire to tell others how to live, what reason do we have for interfering

in their internal affairs? We aren\'t doing those people any good with our interference and we are making more

enemies by being there. Look at the history of our work in trying to control other country\'s internal politics.

There\'s Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, Bosnia... The list goes on. If we were spending this much time and money searching

out the people who actually attacked us, I\'d have no complaint. We aren\'t doing that, though. We have no

business in Iraq!

<hr /></blockquote>

Well, sure you have a point. But look at

Afghanistan and the Taliban Regime, that was clearly supporting terrorism etc. For all we know, Iraq could become

sort of like Afghanistan.

I don\'t think the whole Iraq war paid off when in the end the new government in Iraq

is gonna be even worse than the Saddam Hussein regime.

belgareth

04-16-2004, 05:48 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Well, sure you have a point. But look at

Afghanistan and the Taliban Regime, that was clearly supporting terrorism etc. For all we know, Iraq could become

sort of like Afghanistan.

I don\'t think the whole Iraq war paid off when in the end the new government in Iraq

is gonna be even worse than the Saddam Hussein regime.

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s

part of my point. We went to Vietnam, a lot of kids died. We went to Korea, a lot of kids died. Do I need to list

them all? What was the end result of each of those adventures? Nothing, nadda, zip? Nope, we wasted lives and made

enemies needlessly. We should not have gone to Iraq and should not be trying to force them to live in accordance

with our values. We make more enemies, we open the door to more terrorism by enouraging more people to resent us. If

your contry was attacked and occupied, would you hesitate to fight back?

If we are attacked, we fight back with

the full destructive force we can muster. We should make it look like a very bad idea to attack us. But we also

should stay out of any and all countries\' internal politics. Let them live however they choose until the day

comes when the attack us. Then go in with unlimited warfare, show the world why you don\'t want to start a fight

with the US. Offer friendship without strings to anybody who wants to be friends instead of bullying others to

conform to our ideals. In the long run, we will be far better off, as will the rest of the world.

Pancho1188

04-16-2004, 07:20 AM

I have the best

covert operation ever devised:

We allow fast food places to invade Iraq instead of the military. They\'ll all

become overweight and die of heart attacks and strokes by the time they\'re 50! Genius!!!

I dare you to find

any man who wants to wage war, kill, and destroy while eating a Big Mac and, yes, Super Size fries!!!

Nobody, I tell you, nobody!!!

franki

04-16-2004, 07:22 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I have the best covert operation ever

devised:

We allow fast food places to invade Iraq instead of the military. They\'ll all become overweight and

die of heart attacks and strokes by the time they\'re 50! Genius!!!

I dare you to find any man who wants to

wage war, kill, and destroy while eating a Big Mac and, yes, Super Size fries!!! Nobody, I tell you,

nobody!!!

<hr /></blockquote>

They are too smart to fall for that.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Holmes

04-16-2004, 07:23 AM

They\'ll all be

like, \"Holy war? F**k that. I\'m eatin\'!\"

Hell of a plan.

Holmes

franki

04-16-2004, 07:28 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
They\'ll all be like, \"Holy war? F**k that.

I\'m eatin\'!\"

Hell of a plan.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Forget what

I said. Holmes is right! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Pancho1188

04-16-2004, 07:34 AM

(Opera Voice)

\"Genius, Genius, Genius!!!\"

--- Mr. Deeds

koolking1

04-16-2004, 07:42 AM

maybe if the

women over there showed a little more skin and the men lightened up a bit - it might take their minds off all the

other crap.

Elana

04-16-2004, 07:44 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
maybe if the women over there showed a little more

skin and the men lightened up a bit - it might take their minds off all the other crap.

<hr

/></blockquote>

This is true. Maybe we should open up a few comedy clubs while we are over

there.

koolking1

04-16-2004, 07:53 AM

I\'m game.

Elana

04-16-2004, 07:54 AM

Saddam

Hussein\'s Chauffer

Saddam is riding in his limo in the Iraqi countryside when there is a sudden bump and the

limo stops. The chauffer gets out, walks around the car and reports to Saddam:
\"I just killed a pig. I think it

came from that peasant\'s hut by the road.\"
So Saddam tells him to go and tell the peasant that he is Saddam

Hussein\'s chauffer and that he just killed the pig and that the peasant must be happy because it really is a big

honor, to have a pig killed by the president\'s limo.
The chauffer goes inside the hut and disappears. About an

hour later he returns very drunk, smoking a cigar, and looking extremely happy.
\"What happened there?\" asks

Saddam.
\"I went inside, I said what you told me to say, and the peasant hugged me and thanked me, and threw a

party in my honor and gave me this cigar.\"
\"And what exactly did you tell him?\"
\"I said \'I\'m Saddam

Hussein\'s chauffer and I just killed the pig!\'\"

Pancho1188

04-16-2004, 08:02 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
maybe if the women over there showed a little more skin and the men lightened

up a bit - it might take their minds off all the other crap.

<hr /></blockquote>

This is true. Maybe we should open up a few comedy clubs while we are over there.

<hr

/></blockquote>

What a great idea!!! I can hear Jerry Seinfeld\'s opening act right

now...

*Begin Dream Sequence*

What\'s the deal with veils? Are women constantly making faces and rude

expressions to people under there? Are women waiting their whole lives to get married?

And what\'s the deal

with Jihads? I have the best religion, you have the best religion...let\'s just put the guns down and settle it

over thumb wrestling! Could you imagine competing factions getting ready for a rumble and they all just stick out

their hands and shout, \"One, two, three, four...I declare a thumb war!\" There would be signs all over Iraq:

\"Thumb Wars, not Holy Wars\". Try that for 2,000 years and see how civilization evolves.

*End Dream

Sequence*

On second thought...

Icarus

04-16-2004, 02:53 PM

I think we are

forgetting the lizards.

they like sand, right?

Steve

bjf

04-18-2004, 11:02 AM

http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer/ (\"http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer/\")

Elana

04-18-2004, 12:03 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer/ (\"http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer/\")

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

bjf

04-18-2004, 12:25 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer/ (\"http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer/\")

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Yea, I am very upset about that

metroman

04-18-2004, 02:42 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer/ (\"http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer/\")

<hr /></blockquote>

It\'s enough to make you sick to see an innocent young woman lose her life so that these

politicians can play their silly ego games trying to further the agenda of the Illuminati...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Elana

04-18-2004, 02:51 PM

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/ (\"http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/\")

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

metroman

04-18-2004, 03:02 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/ (\"http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/\")

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Elana!

That is a nice site... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Elana

04-18-2004, 03:22 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/ (\"http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/\")

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks

Elana! That is a nice site... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

May the force be with you, Metroman. I would now like for everyone to put on their tin

foil hats to protect us from the lizards. They can suck out our brains because the government has planted chips in

our shoulders. Shhhhhhhhhhh........they can read what we are thinking......turn out the lights and think about

nothing.
http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html (\"http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html\")

Icarus

04-18-2004, 03:25 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
turn out the lights and think about nothing.

<hr /></blockquote>

way ahead of ya

metroman

04-18-2004, 04:00 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/ (\"http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/\")

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Elana!

That is a nice site... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

May the force be with you, Metroman. I would now like for everyone to put on their tin foil

hats to protect us from the lizards. They can suck out our brains because the government has planted chips in our

shoulders. Shhhhhhhhhhh........they can read what we are thinking......turn out the lights and think about

nothing.
http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html (\"http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html\")

<hr

/></blockquote>

This means that all you have to do to set the foundations of running the

entire planet in terms of its direction to be able to control via the education system or what passes for it and the

mantra messages through the media and therefore on through that to peer pressure where one conditioned group imposes

its conditioning on other groups because it\'s become a crime to be different.

And this sets the limits of

normal thought behavior and what have you in the world and because most people just follow the norms like sheep

following the one in front, the baa-baa mentality and others who question the norms but are terrified of saying so

because they fear the reaction of people around them.

That combination of the baa-baa mentality which accounts

for the majority of sheep and the fear mentality which accounts for the minority of the dumb media they conform are

exactly the two states of being that control the mass consciousness and turn five billion unique aspects of infinity

into a two legged bewildered herd which is what we\'ve become. And then, of course, you go one step further and

you ask, \"Who polices the herd?\" Well, the herd polices itself because in whatever area of our lives we\'re

talking about, if you\'re different then you are inviting ridicule and condemnation for that what is now a crime.

Jeff Rense ~ You know, all you have to do, David, is go to any elementary school and watch quietly and you\'ll

see it at work. If one child acts a little differently, he or she becomes the object of ridicule and teasing

instantly

Talk Show Host Jeff Rense interviewing David Icke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

04-18-2004, 04:05 PM

aren\'t you

baa-baaing right up Icke\'s tushy?

metroman

04-18-2004, 06:45 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
aren\'t you baa-baaing right up Icke\'s tushy?

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'d rather baa baa up your tushy sweetie...

metroman

04-18-2004, 07:16 PM

FWIW I would like

to add my thoughts.
Society is among other things, a struggle between the forces of progressive change and

conservatism (sometimes even regressive).
Homeostasis in action.
Without challenge to the prevailing institutions

we would stagnate. Without the conservative force, we would careen out of control.
The key is balance.
Perhaps

most fundamentally it is analogous to the physical phenomenon of Order vs. Chaos.
There must be some \"baa-baa\"

people to balance the rogues.
Anarchy is not a viable form of government. And a totalitarian police state is not a

desirable form of government.
Well, unless I am the dictator.

------------------------------------------------------------

More academic sounding rationalizations for

maintaining the status quo...if you\'re not a baa-baa sheeple why you must of course be a rogue...